> True. This is exactly what Win8 does, too, except it lets you switch between two modes as you go.
...which means that as a practical matter you'll be able to play music from the Metro interface but will always have to drop back into the KVM interface to get work done. That's not a tablet, it's a computer that happens to have a touchscreen. So, for instance, we have a Windows Media Center, but the media center interface has just enough drawbacks (example: will not play mkv files, which requires exiting WMC and bringing up an alternate player) that we at first found ourselves bringing up media center and then shutting it down and then bringing it up again, and finally after a year of that, we just stay in the windows 7 desktop and do everything with a wired mouse and a long extension cord. The media center / remote paradigm was incompletely visualized, which led to switching back and forth, which led to abandonment.
A point that I didn't think I had to make, but maybe I do, is that it's possible to do real work on a properly designed touch-only device. People use ipads and Android tablets to do actual work without ever needing a real keyboard or a real mouse. Microsoft, on the other hand, appears to see the touch interface as an additional feature that might control simple things but for real work you'll just naturally dock the device and use it like a PC, which is a platform they thoroughly understand. It's this basic misunderstanding of the tablet market that will continue to prevent any significant acceptance of a Windows tablet.
> Are you seriously claiming that Win8 Metro is "not so much a different interface" compared to classic desktop?
I am not. I'm seriously claiming that Win8 Metro is "not so much a different interface" as a combination of Windows 7 Mobile, Windows Media Center, and the Windows Accessibility Suite. I'm seriously claiming that Win8 Metro is designed to meet the minimum line items necessary to be considered a touch interface for marketing purposes, not designed from the ground up to be a cohesive human interface.
Often in the field I take photos, dress them up on a laptop, then upload to a website, burn to cd or email to clients. I'm -) (- this close to being able to do everything on Android. When that day arrives, the Windows laptop stays home, and a 7" or 10" slate accompanies me in the field. And life will be good. Why not a Windows slate? Because inevitably there would be that two or three operations that need a keyboard and a mouse.
It tells me that someone on Newt's team blew it, and it makes me wonder about the caliber of people with which he's surrounded himself. Whenever you have something coming to the forefront of public consciousness, whether it be a movie, a candidate, a new company or a major product, you automatically lock down domain names for reasonable variations of the name in question. If someone already owns the domain, you bribe or sue them into submission. This is not rocket science.
Something to think about: The various *nix solutions tend to fall into a pattern -- a GUI for KVM (OSX, Ubuntu) and a different GUI for touch devices (iOS, Android). This is because touch is a whole different paradigm from KVM and trying to make one GUI do both leads to incompatible design decisions. Mind you, the underlying OS can be the same (if it's decent, and supports resources required by both paradigms). But the actual interface design choices are radically different. In the past, Microsoft has tried to repurpose existing accessibility stuff and call it good. And it wasn't. What I see in Windows 8 is not so much a different interface as a different marketing campaign. And that's not going to fly well or far, almost by definition.
> However, the whole point of Win8 is that it is designed for touch - that's what the new Metro stuff is all about. And yet it will still run old x86 apps if you need them. And if it'll also have a 12-hour battery life, like Transformer Prime does? pray tell, why wouldn't it be a major player?
I've looked at Metro, and it looks like repurposed Windows 7 Mobile and Windows Media Center stuff. Indications are, Windows 8 was a small amount of "designed for" and a much larger amount of "rebrand and reuse these phone and accessibility and media center products we already have", going with the philosophy of code reuse and "windows everywhere". Windows 8 has to work on a standard KVM interface, because that's where Microsoft gets most of its revenue, and I think we'll find, working with a standard KVM will be Windows 8's main strength, and the interface you have to resort to in order to get serious work done. Just like the other "touch based" windows in the past.
I'm personally going to miss it and see what they come up with for 9. In the meantime, Android and iOS work more than adequately on touch devices; why would I switch?
> I'm glad to hear that they've kept the Misty Mountains song and I'll be greatly disappointed if an updated version of "Funny Little Things" or "Down, Down to Goblin Town" doesn't make the cut also.
Not me. The Misty Mountains song was given a great treatment -- it sounds wistful and eerie. I'm told the Break Plates song will be in there also. But seriously, do we really need The Hobbit to be a musical? There already is one and it was horrible.
We don't have anything to show that people couldn't easily pick apart, and we don't want customers to get close to Windows 8 until we can keep it from randomly exploding, and Balmer's stage presence... let's face it, he's become a laughingstock. So we're choosing to present our products in much more controlled circumstances like TV ads. And in those ads we'll mostly be ragging on how complicated our competitor's products are, because we can't compete on functionality, as every one of them will do more than ours.
...which *really* works for me, as I don't watch TV. They can advertise there all they want! Who knows, maybe incessant Windows commercials will inspire others to turn off the TV and, I dunno, talk to their kids.
I have no idea why Google shouldn't be able to do the same thing. But before I touch an Intel tablet, I'd want to know what I'm getting into. If it isn't completely interoperable with ARM devices in the Android universe, it's not interesting. And Windows 8 is a complete non-starter.
> I think both Microsoft and Intel are working to stay relevant in a future of one device / OS that does it all.
Yeah, that's the thing I don't want any part of at all, and I don't think I'm alone. M$ is pretty much a given on the PC, but Winders on every other platform has been, let's say, an acquired taste. I had to live through Windows Mobile 5 and 6 on a phone, and it sucketh mightily. I've worked with Windows Phone 7, and it's just not relevant and not anything I'd ever want to own. I've had the questionable privilege of having to do real work on Windows XP and Windows 7 "tablet editions" on stylus tablets, and it's just a good way to spend hours being frustrated.
I know Microsoft beats the "compatibility" drum incessantly, as a reason for having "windows everywhere", but it just isn't relevant anymore and hasn't been for a very long time. I have full access to all Outlook resources on my Android phone, and can open and manipulate every Office document save perhaps Visio right on my phone. To give a presentation, I mail myself the powerpoint file, open it on the phone, plug the phone directly to the overhead projector through HDMI, and show the slides from Android, no Winders PC or laptop required.
Windows Everywhere is no longer a blessing, hasn't been for years, and I suspect never really was. Given Microsoft's OS offerings this century, Windows Everywhere is a curse. One of those really bad curses that requires horrible midnight procedures to eradicate. Or, you know, BUY A DEVICE THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.
But you know, it's all good. As Microsoft continues to pursue One OS To Rule Them All, they'll continue to put out PC operating systems that are reasonably functional, and try to shoehorn the same bloated code and inappropriate paradigms onto mobile devices, which almost nobody will buy. And they will continue to be reasonable relevant in the PC world, and pretty much nowhere else. Because they still don't get the mobile market, and as long as they insist on Windows Everywhere, they never will. And yes, I know about Windows 8. It's just existing products rebranded and somewhat enhanced, when what they really need, and they will never do, is to start over.
The thing is, there are still advantages to BES. With a Blackberry connected to the corporate BES server, I had direct access to the corporate intranet, as BES is in a special DMZ that gives access behind the firewall to devices it trusts. As a corporate Android user, I *still* don't have that capability. I know there are apps that are supposed to provide that, but I've not yet seen them work.
Wow, good point. That had completely slipped my mind. So one would expect the government to step in at some point in the negotiations. And I'm feeling that the CIA switching to Windows Phone 7 isn't an option.
RIM's architecture is actually unique and very advanced. They do stuff that no other smart phone manufacturer does. Another poster had a good point -- the US government makes huge use of the Blackberry network, and probably wouldn't allow the product to vanish.
If it's Windows 8, penetration may be in the single digits. In the tablet marketplace, Microsoft, and by extension Intel based processors, are not major players. It's not just the power consumption. I've heard a rumor that Android would be ported to X86, but how will that work, I wonder? Would there be a separate marketplace? Development requirements to compile and test on two different architectures?
What RIM does is anathema to Microsoft. If they buy the company, it'll only be for first shot at the customer base and perhaps some of their technologies, for instance, incorporating some features of BES into Exchange. Don't expect anything like a Blackberry to continue to exist after the sale.
I've been thinking about this. You definitely want to make the emergency oxygen handle easier to grasp, I'm thinking.
But you don't necessarily want to have your emergency oxygen turn on automatically, unless you're ejecting, perhaps, because you may need that oxygen if you *do* have to eject. I'd prefer to see either a layer between the primary system and the pilot's mask, or a secondary system. For instance, oxygen from OBOGS compressing a tank which feeds the mask, with the tank providing a reasonable safety margin (half hour?) should the primary system fail. But clearly, a bleed air leak shouldn't immediately stop the flow of oxygen to the pilot. The most important component of a fighter plane is the pilot's brain -- keeping it online should be the highest priority.
Agreed, although I was not fond of the iron duke; with its iron crankcase and aluminium head, it tended to blow head gaskets due to TCE differential. However, the V6 Fiero was fast and reliable and all Fieros were stylish. There was nothing stylish, fast or fun about the film.
I read with interest the many knowledgeable comments in this thread, and understand that it takes awhile to get bugs out of a new airframe, and testing a new plane is not conducive of a long and happy life.
But I have to ask; the F22 came out in 1997. It's been out for more than a decade. So they're still finding ergonomic issues in the emergency systems?
Looking at this and at the shambles we've made of our manned space capability, and I have to wonder if a government at some point grows so bureaucratic that it can no longer successfully do the big projects.
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> True. This is exactly what Win8 does, too, except it lets you switch between two modes as you go.
A point that I didn't think I had to make, but maybe I do, is that it's possible to do real work on a properly designed touch-only device. People use ipads and Android tablets to do actual work without ever needing a real keyboard or a real mouse. Microsoft, on the other hand, appears to see the touch interface as an additional feature that might control simple things but for real work you'll just naturally dock the device and use it like a PC, which is a platform they thoroughly understand. It's this basic misunderstanding of the tablet market that will continue to prevent any significant acceptance of a Windows tablet.
> Are you seriously claiming that Win8 Metro is "not so much a different interface" compared to classic desktop?
I am not. I'm seriously claiming that Win8 Metro is "not so much a different interface" as a combination of Windows 7 Mobile, Windows Media Center, and the Windows Accessibility Suite. I'm seriously claiming that Win8 Metro is designed to meet the minimum line items necessary to be considered a touch interface for marketing purposes, not designed from the ground up to be a cohesive human interface.
Often in the field I take photos, dress them up on a laptop, then upload to a website, burn to cd or email to clients. I'm -) (- this close to being able to do everything on Android. When that day arrives, the Windows laptop stays home, and a 7" or 10" slate accompanies me in the field. And life will be good. Why not a Windows slate? Because inevitably there would be that two or three operations that need a keyboard and a mouse.
It tells me that someone on Newt's team blew it, and it makes me wonder about the caliber of people with which he's surrounded himself. Whenever you have something coming to the forefront of public consciousness, whether it be a movie, a candidate, a new company or a major product, you automatically lock down domain names for reasonable variations of the name in question. If someone already owns the domain, you bribe or sue them into submission. This is not rocket science.
Good answer, thanks.
Something to think about: The various *nix solutions tend to fall into a pattern -- a GUI for KVM (OSX, Ubuntu) and a different GUI for touch devices (iOS, Android). This is because touch is a whole different paradigm from KVM and trying to make one GUI do both leads to incompatible design decisions. Mind you, the underlying OS can be the same (if it's decent, and supports resources required by both paradigms). But the actual interface design choices are radically different. In the past, Microsoft has tried to repurpose existing accessibility stuff and call it good. And it wasn't. What I see in Windows 8 is not so much a different interface as a different marketing campaign. And that's not going to fly well or far, almost by definition.
> However, the whole point of Win8 is that it is designed for touch - that's what the new Metro stuff is all about. And yet it will still run old x86 apps if you need them. And if it'll also have a 12-hour battery life, like Transformer Prime does? pray tell, why wouldn't it be a major player?
I've looked at Metro, and it looks like repurposed Windows 7 Mobile and Windows Media Center stuff. Indications are, Windows 8 was a small amount of "designed for" and a much larger amount of "rebrand and reuse these phone and accessibility and media center products we already have", going with the philosophy of code reuse and "windows everywhere". Windows 8 has to work on a standard KVM interface, because that's where Microsoft gets most of its revenue, and I think we'll find, working with a standard KVM will be Windows 8's main strength, and the interface you have to resort to in order to get serious work done. Just like the other "touch based" windows in the past.
I'm personally going to miss it and see what they come up with for 9. In the meantime, Android and iOS work more than adequately on touch devices; why would I switch?
Brilliant. Just brilliant.
Doesn't that warm the fjords?
> I'm glad to hear that they've kept the Misty Mountains song and I'll be greatly disappointed if an updated version of "Funny Little Things" or "Down, Down to Goblin Town" doesn't make the cut also.
Not me. The Misty Mountains song was given a great treatment -- it sounds wistful and eerie. I'm told the Break Plates song will be in there also. But seriously, do we really need The Hobbit to be a musical? There already is one and it was horrible.
We don't have anything to show that people couldn't easily pick apart, and we don't want customers to get close to Windows 8 until we can keep it from randomly exploding, and Balmer's stage presence... let's face it, he's become a laughingstock. So we're choosing to present our products in much more controlled circumstances like TV ads. And in those ads we'll mostly be ragging on how complicated our competitor's products are, because we can't compete on functionality, as every one of them will do more than ours.
There, fixed it for you.
I have no idea why Google shouldn't be able to do the same thing. But before I touch an Intel tablet, I'd want to know what I'm getting into. If it isn't completely interoperable with ARM devices in the Android universe, it's not interesting. And Windows 8 is a complete non-starter.
> I think both Microsoft and Intel are working to stay relevant in a future of one device / OS that does it all.
Yeah, that's the thing I don't want any part of at all, and I don't think I'm alone. M$ is pretty much a given on the PC, but Winders on every other platform has been, let's say, an acquired taste. I had to live through Windows Mobile 5 and 6 on a phone, and it sucketh mightily. I've worked with Windows Phone 7, and it's just not relevant and not anything I'd ever want to own. I've had the questionable privilege of having to do real work on Windows XP and Windows 7 "tablet editions" on stylus tablets, and it's just a good way to spend hours being frustrated.
I know Microsoft beats the "compatibility" drum incessantly, as a reason for having "windows everywhere", but it just isn't relevant anymore and hasn't been for a very long time. I have full access to all Outlook resources on my Android phone, and can open and manipulate every Office document save perhaps Visio right on my phone. To give a presentation, I mail myself the powerpoint file, open it on the phone, plug the phone directly to the overhead projector through HDMI, and show the slides from Android, no Winders PC or laptop required.
Windows Everywhere is no longer a blessing, hasn't been for years, and I suspect never really was. Given Microsoft's OS offerings this century, Windows Everywhere is a curse. One of those really bad curses that requires horrible midnight procedures to eradicate. Or, you know, BUY A DEVICE THAT ACTUALLY WORKS.
But you know, it's all good. As Microsoft continues to pursue One OS To Rule Them All, they'll continue to put out PC operating systems that are reasonably functional, and try to shoehorn the same bloated code and inappropriate paradigms onto mobile devices, which almost nobody will buy. And they will continue to be reasonable relevant in the PC world, and pretty much nowhere else. Because they still don't get the mobile market, and as long as they insist on Windows Everywhere, they never will. And yes, I know about Windows 8. It's just existing products rebranded and somewhat enhanced, when what they really need, and they will never do, is to start over.
The thing is, there are still advantages to BES. With a Blackberry connected to the corporate BES server, I had direct access to the corporate intranet, as BES is in a special DMZ that gives access behind the firewall to devices it trusts. As a corporate Android user, I *still* don't have that capability. I know there are apps that are supposed to provide that, but I've not yet seen them work.
Wow, good point. That had completely slipped my mind. So one would expect the government to step in at some point in the negotiations. And I'm feeling that the CIA switching to Windows Phone 7 isn't an option.
RIM's architecture is actually unique and very advanced. They do stuff that no other smart phone manufacturer does. Another poster had a good point -- the US government makes huge use of the Blackberry network, and probably wouldn't allow the product to vanish.
If it's Windows 8, penetration may be in the single digits. In the tablet marketplace, Microsoft, and by extension Intel based processors, are not major players. It's not just the power consumption. I've heard a rumor that Android would be ported to X86, but how will that work, I wonder? Would there be a separate marketplace? Development requirements to compile and test on two different architectures?
Agreed. At least, acquisition by Microsoft would be a clean death.
What RIM does is anathema to Microsoft. If they buy the company, it'll only be for first shot at the customer base and perhaps some of their technologies, for instance, incorporating some features of BES into Exchange. Don't expect anything like a Blackberry to continue to exist after the sale.
Amazon... I'm not sure.
I've been thinking about this. You definitely want to make the emergency oxygen handle easier to grasp, I'm thinking.
But you don't necessarily want to have your emergency oxygen turn on automatically, unless you're ejecting, perhaps, because you may need that oxygen if you *do* have to eject. I'd prefer to see either a layer between the primary system and the pilot's mask, or a secondary system. For instance, oxygen from OBOGS compressing a tank which feeds the mask, with the tank providing a reasonable safety margin (half hour?) should the primary system fail. But clearly, a bleed air leak shouldn't immediately stop the flow of oxygen to the pilot. The most important component of a fighter plane is the pilot's brain -- keeping it online should be the highest priority.
I can't imagine the dipping sauce that would get me through an order of monkey sushi...
Should read "October, November are the *best* days for writing buggy code." They're the worst days, apparently, for writing bug-free code.
Agreed, although I was not fond of the iron duke; with its iron crankcase and aluminium head, it tended to blow head gaskets due to TCE differential. However, the V6 Fiero was fast and reliable and all Fieros were stylish. There was nothing stylish, fast or fun about the film.
I read with interest the many knowledgeable comments in this thread, and understand that it takes awhile to get bugs out of a new airframe, and testing a new plane is not conducive of a long and happy life.
But I have to ask; the F22 came out in 1997. It's been out for more than a decade. So they're still finding ergonomic issues in the emergency systems?
Looking at this and at the shambles we've made of our manned space capability, and I have to wonder if a government at some point grows so bureaucratic that it can no longer successfully do the big projects.