You're assuming that the $2.50/hr indian programmer will produce a lower quality product. Do you have actual statistical evidence of that? Note that we're not talking call centers here, we're talking coders. I would wager that India has some pretty amazing coders there, as well as some pretty attrocious ones - exactly like in the US. The difference is not quality, it's cost of living. Since someone can live a fairly decent life in India working for much less money than someone in the US can, India (or most of the former Soviet blok states, or Pakistan, or any number of other developing countries) will always win out, and quality difference will most likely, on average, be negligable.
What a Union would do is get the company you're working for to pledge in a legally-binding way that they will not farm the job you are doing to people in some developing country that can do the same quality of work for far, far less. It may be short sighted, it may run the company into the ground in the long run...but, hey, you chose to be someone else's programming bitch, instead of getting a real job.
Sometimes I like to give my fingers a rest, you know? Just sit back and pretend it's a point and click computer for an hour or two. I also like looking at thumbnails in a photo collection, they're always pretty. I'm usually 20-80 with my nautilus/terminal use. 20% of the time i'm looking at the filesystem through nautlus, 80% i'm using the terminal. It's just nice to have the option to not constantly cd through directories.
I don't think your analogy is apt, since your experience at a restaurant varries depending on who's serving you. There's nothing you can do about their experience. With a new OS, however, (especially FreeBSD) there is documentation you can look through to see if your particular hardware is supported, as well as documentation to tell you HOW to do something to smooth your transition from one OS to another. From the parents posts, it's fairly obvious he failed to look at either resource. He, however, blames it on the OS instead of himself. That was my point. He has all the resources to "know" how the OS would react to his hardware configuration. He simply failed to use them.
And i'm no OS zealot either. I typed my last message on my windows workstation. My computer right now is running OpenBSD, but has Ubuntu and Windows XP installed on it. I'm planning on installing FreeBSD on it as well (50 extra gigs), and my server in the other room runs FreeBSD. All my OS's work just fine for what i want them to do.
It's not making up for defective hardware, buck-o. It has more generic key sequences, thus making it more usable on a larger number of systems...which is a goal certainly in the realm of software utility.
The problem is that you are ignoring the actual sources of information that could have made your attempt go much more smoothly and more than likely work successfully. Simply saying "It didn't work for me, even thought i don't know much about the OS, so I will tell EVERYONE I KNOW AND DON'T KNOW that FREEBSD IS A HORRIBLE SOLUTION FOR SATA SOFTWARE RAID! PERIOD!" is just as insecure and arrogant (even though your example uses an onboard hardware solution that probably has hardare RAID-5 that FreeBSD would see as a disk array and create a device called ar0 that looks, to you, like a single disk device).
Not only is it arrogant and insecure, but it's irresponsible and inacurrate. I mean, did you research Vinnum or GEOM? In this case, you'd want to go with vinum.
And, again, your X problem is ridiculous. I have never seen a modern computer out there that was unable to get an X session up and running in FreeBSD, but WAS able to get one running in Linux. X IS THE SAME PROGRAM, WITH THE SAME HARDWARE SUPPORT IN BOTH OPERATING SYSTEMS! THERE IS NO EFFECTIVE DIFFERENCE! That point there makes me call bullshit on this story.
And we're just saying it was most likely your own fault, and not that of FreeBSD. FreeBSD is a very advanced operating system. It doesn't hold your hand. It assumes you know what you're doing. That, however, doesn't mean it's incapable of performing as well or better than the analogous linux solution.
In other words, you shouldn't advocate a tool based on your ability to use it, you should advocate a tool based on it's ability to get the job done. Think of a jack hammer. I'm assuming you're fairly weak phsyically, so i'm going to assume you don't have the physique needed to use a jack hammer in the proper way. Now, imagine your friend comes to you for some advice on tearing up his driveway. He aks, "Hey man, i gotta tear up my driveway. What should I use, a 5 pound sledge or a jack hammer?" You reply, "Well, I tried to use a jackhammer once, but i ended up not being able to control it and it stabbed my mom in the stomach...so i'd say go with the 5 pound sledge." Your friend, however, is perfectly capable physically to handle the jackhammer, and would end up being more efficient with it in the end. You just gave him bad advice!
Your FreeBSD vs Gentoo is the same. Simply because you weren't mentally capable of harnessing the awesome power of FreeBSD, but were able to get Gentoo to work for you, doesn't mean that the job might not have been better completed by FreeBSD. It speaks more to your own lack of ability than anything else. Especially as others have shown FreeBSD to be able to excell at the very same job you say it has failed at.
I decided to install Dfly last night. The only thing noteworthy was the lack of support for my sata controller, and thus my lack of ability to install it on my system. The controller works great in FreeBSD, any tips you might be able to send my way? It's a Promise R20378 (aka PDC20378). I'll probably just end up buying a big, cheap ata drive on my way home and install openbsd on my sata drives, instead. It recognizes them.
Interesting. When i first set up my SATA-RAIDable box, i was a big Gentoo fan and a big FreeBSD fan. I first tried to install gentoo on it, but had nothing but headaches. I wanted to have the entire system, all paritions, striping, which means the installer had to detect both drives as identical and RAIDable. Gentoo didn't do that. So i grabbed my FreeBSD install CD (it was 5.x at the time), fired that puppy up. In the dmesg output on boot i noticed that it found both my SATA drives, created an arX device (the device used for disk arrays), and i was able to partition and install the OS across both the drives as if they were one without any problems at all. Gentoo was not this simple of a process, so it lost out to FreeBSD.
Differing experiences, eh? But I guess mine was hardware raid, afterall, and that is a difference for sure. Though, I have software raid setup on my FreeBSD file server, which was extremely easy after reading this page. I guess if you don't know where to look, things are difficult? Good thing all the FreeBSD documentation is centralized and easy to browse, eh?
I guess it also helps that i'm well-versed in ports. Though, getting X up and running in FreeBSD is EXACTLY THE SAME (not similar, EXACTLY THE SAME -THEY ARE THE SAME SET OF PROGRAMS!) as it is in Gentoo, after you get X installed. The process there is pretty similar, though.
Re:I just can't get the hang of vim
on
Vim 7 Released
·
· Score: 1
vim has the annoying habbit of auto-saving (another reason why i love nvi), so it probably woudln't let you edit it because it didn't have enough space to allocate it's little back-up autosave douchebag file. I have a feeling if you were using nvi instead of vim, you would have been able to edit and save the file.
well he was referring to a broken keymap, where ctrl might not be ctrl. in that case, if you're in emacs, you're pretty much screwed. I personally find:wq less of a strain then the analogous escape squences (which i forget, since i haven't used emacs since about a month after i learned how to use it).
It would. I was also just thinking, what if a shop had a lot of custom update/install/maintenance scipts that were adapted to apt and that shop decided for security/stability concerns to switch to FreeBSD. Debian GNU/kFreeBSD would provide them with an easier migration path than FreeBSD itself would. I've convinced myself =)
I gotta say, i installed debian gnu/kfreebsd (why don't they say gnu/klinux? I don't get the k.) and it felt like an absolute kludge when compared with the actual FreeBSD distribution. It's kind of a cool "can i do it?" project, but beyond that I see no use. FreeBSD is designed to be a cohesive system and it is a cohesive system. So why do you bring it up as an option over just plain old FreeBSD? The freebsd ports/package system really isn't that difficult to learn. Arguably easier to grasp than apt. So, i'm curious, why do you prefer debian gnu/kfreebsd over FreeBSD proper?
Once you introduce electricity, it's no longer camping. Period. Even if you're out in the middle of the amazon. Camping implies simplicity. Introduce electricity and it's become and excursion or something different. Maybe some people at burning man are actually camping, but you are just being a pussy.
Now, I have an auto playing song on my myspace page, but it's expressly there to annoy the hell out of people. It's embedded, not using their little convenient flash thing, and i've hidden the controls so you can't stop it. And, what's better, it's Johnny Cash singing cocaine blues! Which...basically makes most people like it, but it used to be a song about grotesque things to do with fetuses! And Jesus dances to it!
Actually the computer example is a really good one. Electricity use is still one of the most significant sources of not only CO2, but Acid Rain. Since a big chunk of our power comes from coal-fired plants, computers collectively do quite a bit of harm. This is why I eventually wish to live off grid, so I can better control the impact my daily life has on the environment. I don't like that the majority of the power that goes into my little black box at work is made possible by dirty energy, and dirty politics that just perpetuate backwards ideas and subsidies that mask the true cost of certain sources (like nuclear).
Well, if you're marketing a car to be a roadster, you're going to want to be able to say to yourself "Today, I think i want to blast up highway 395, get on 108 to sonora, take 49 down to Fresno, 178 through lake isabella to the 14, hook back up with 395 and come home." I know, because i've done that trip before simply for the drive, and in one day (and I highly recommend it, aisde from the Fresno-to-Bakersfield kick, it's gorgeous).
Sure, 100 miles is practical, but this isn't a practical car he's marketing. He's marketting it for people who love to drive, and people who love to drive really love to drive! 100 miles is not enough, especially when you're probably going to be driving about 90-100 miles an hour most of the way. Hell, 100 miles wouldn't even get you out of the mojave on that trip. And you don't want to recharge your expensive electric roadster in Randsburg.
My last experience with Installing Linux -- Slackware 10.2
Unfortunately, that's what you get when you install slackware. It's a wonderful distribution if you want a solid linux server, but it sounds like it's about half a year to a year behind the curve. Of the issues you mentioned, i can only agree with you on CUPS, Samba, and the Microscope. On my arch linux box, all the modules I need are autolaoded via udev (which now has built in hotplug support - which means plug and play). USB Memory stick pops up on my gnome desktop right after I insert it. Sounds works without effort. My cups difficulties are mostly because of the shoddy LaserJet 1012 driver, which really is just a problem with the printer being a fake laser printer more than anything (that is, it works...but large print jobs end with the printer spitting out one page that says "Unknown Device Personality: PCL" or something like that. I can't comment on the Scanner, as I don't use one. Anyway, to summarize:
- Module autoloading works.
- Sound works.
- Automatic Detection of USB pen drives works.
- Other issues are *almost* edge cases.
Sounds like you need a more modern, desktop-oriented distro if you're going to judge linux on the desktop.
Slashdot Mirror
Possilibity, Dogma, etc, are not truth. You take them to be, and that is incorrect and intellectually lazy.
QNX
You're assuming that the $2.50/hr indian programmer will produce a lower quality product. Do you have actual statistical evidence of that? Note that we're not talking call centers here, we're talking coders. I would wager that India has some pretty amazing coders there, as well as some pretty attrocious ones - exactly like in the US. The difference is not quality, it's cost of living. Since someone can live a fairly decent life in India working for much less money than someone in the US can, India (or most of the former Soviet blok states, or Pakistan, or any number of other developing countries) will always win out, and quality difference will most likely, on average, be negligable.
What a Union would do is get the company you're working for to pledge in a legally-binding way that they will not farm the job you are doing to people in some developing country that can do the same quality of work for far, far less. It may be short sighted, it may run the company into the ground in the long run...but, hey, you chose to be someone else's programming bitch, instead of getting a real job.
Sometimes I like to give my fingers a rest, you know? Just sit back and pretend it's a point and click computer for an hour or two. I also like looking at thumbnails in a photo collection, they're always pretty. I'm usually 20-80 with my nautilus/terminal use. 20% of the time i'm looking at the filesystem through nautlus, 80% i'm using the terminal. It's just nice to have the option to not constantly cd through directories.
Matt has said pkgsrc is it for a long while. And really pkgsrc isn't all that bad.
I don't think your analogy is apt, since your experience at a restaurant varries depending on who's serving you. There's nothing you can do about their experience. With a new OS, however, (especially FreeBSD) there is documentation you can look through to see if your particular hardware is supported, as well as documentation to tell you HOW to do something to smooth your transition from one OS to another. From the parents posts, it's fairly obvious he failed to look at either resource. He, however, blames it on the OS instead of himself. That was my point. He has all the resources to "know" how the OS would react to his hardware configuration. He simply failed to use them.
And i'm no OS zealot either. I typed my last message on my windows workstation. My computer right now is running OpenBSD, but has Ubuntu and Windows XP installed on it. I'm planning on installing FreeBSD on it as well (50 extra gigs), and my server in the other room runs FreeBSD. All my OS's work just fine for what i want them to do.
In short, his mileage varried needlessly.
It's not making up for defective hardware, buck-o. It has more generic key sequences, thus making it more usable on a larger number of systems...which is a goal certainly in the realm of software utility.
The problem is that you are ignoring the actual sources of information that could have made your attempt go much more smoothly and more than likely work successfully. Simply saying "It didn't work for me, even thought i don't know much about the OS, so I will tell EVERYONE I KNOW AND DON'T KNOW that FREEBSD IS A HORRIBLE SOLUTION FOR SATA SOFTWARE RAID! PERIOD!" is just as insecure and arrogant (even though your example uses an onboard hardware solution that probably has hardare RAID-5 that FreeBSD would see as a disk array and create a device called ar0 that looks, to you, like a single disk device).
Not only is it arrogant and insecure, but it's irresponsible and inacurrate. I mean, did you research Vinnum or GEOM? In this case, you'd want to go with vinum.
And, again, your X problem is ridiculous. I have never seen a modern computer out there that was unable to get an X session up and running in FreeBSD, but WAS able to get one running in Linux. X IS THE SAME PROGRAM, WITH THE SAME HARDWARE SUPPORT IN BOTH OPERATING SYSTEMS! THERE IS NO EFFECTIVE DIFFERENCE! That point there makes me call bullshit on this story.
And we're just saying it was most likely your own fault, and not that of FreeBSD. FreeBSD is a very advanced operating system. It doesn't hold your hand. It assumes you know what you're doing. That, however, doesn't mean it's incapable of performing as well or better than the analogous linux solution.
In other words, you shouldn't advocate a tool based on your ability to use it, you should advocate a tool based on it's ability to get the job done. Think of a jack hammer. I'm assuming you're fairly weak phsyically, so i'm going to assume you don't have the physique needed to use a jack hammer in the proper way. Now, imagine your friend comes to you for some advice on tearing up his driveway. He aks, "Hey man, i gotta tear up my driveway. What should I use, a 5 pound sledge or a jack hammer?" You reply, "Well, I tried to use a jackhammer once, but i ended up not being able to control it and it stabbed my mom in the stomach...so i'd say go with the 5 pound sledge." Your friend, however, is perfectly capable physically to handle the jackhammer, and would end up being more efficient with it in the end. You just gave him bad advice!
Your FreeBSD vs Gentoo is the same. Simply because you weren't mentally capable of harnessing the awesome power of FreeBSD, but were able to get Gentoo to work for you, doesn't mean that the job might not have been better completed by FreeBSD. It speaks more to your own lack of ability than anything else. Especially as others have shown FreeBSD to be able to excell at the very same job you say it has failed at.
I decided to install Dfly last night. The only thing noteworthy was the lack of support for my sata controller, and thus my lack of ability to install it on my system. The controller works great in FreeBSD, any tips you might be able to send my way? It's a Promise R20378 (aka PDC20378). I'll probably just end up buying a big, cheap ata drive on my way home and install openbsd on my sata drives, instead. It recognizes them.
Interesting. When i first set up my SATA-RAIDable box, i was a big Gentoo fan and a big FreeBSD fan. I first tried to install gentoo on it, but had nothing but headaches. I wanted to have the entire system, all paritions, striping, which means the installer had to detect both drives as identical and RAIDable. Gentoo didn't do that. So i grabbed my FreeBSD install CD (it was 5.x at the time), fired that puppy up. In the dmesg output on boot i noticed that it found both my SATA drives, created an arX device (the device used for disk arrays), and i was able to partition and install the OS across both the drives as if they were one without any problems at all. Gentoo was not this simple of a process, so it lost out to FreeBSD.
Differing experiences, eh? But I guess mine was hardware raid, afterall, and that is a difference for sure. Though, I have software raid setup on my FreeBSD file server, which was extremely easy after reading this page. I guess if you don't know where to look, things are difficult? Good thing all the FreeBSD documentation is centralized and easy to browse, eh?
I guess it also helps that i'm well-versed in ports. Though, getting X up and running in FreeBSD is EXACTLY THE SAME (not similar, EXACTLY THE SAME -THEY ARE THE SAME SET OF PROGRAMS!) as it is in Gentoo, after you get X installed. The process there is pretty similar, though.
vim has the annoying habbit of auto-saving (another reason why i love nvi), so it probably woudln't let you edit it because it didn't have enough space to allocate it's little back-up autosave douchebag file. I have a feeling if you were using nvi instead of vim, you would have been able to edit and save the file.
I agree. When I saw this I thought, "Hey! Another reason to use nvi!"
well he was referring to a broken keymap, where ctrl might not be ctrl. in that case, if you're in emacs, you're pretty much screwed. I personally find :wq less of a strain then the analogous escape squences (which i forget, since i haven't used emacs since about a month after i learned how to use it).
It would. I was also just thinking, what if a shop had a lot of custom update/install/maintenance scipts that were adapted to apt and that shop decided for security/stability concerns to switch to FreeBSD. Debian GNU/kFreeBSD would provide them with an easier migration path than FreeBSD itself would. I've convinced myself =)
I gotta say, i installed debian gnu/kfreebsd (why don't they say gnu/klinux? I don't get the k.) and it felt like an absolute kludge when compared with the actual FreeBSD distribution. It's kind of a cool "can i do it?" project, but beyond that I see no use. FreeBSD is designed to be a cohesive system and it is a cohesive system. So why do you bring it up as an option over just plain old FreeBSD? The freebsd ports/package system really isn't that difficult to learn. Arguably easier to grasp than apt. So, i'm curious, why do you prefer debian gnu/kfreebsd over FreeBSD proper?
Once you introduce electricity, it's no longer camping. Period. Even if you're out in the middle of the amazon. Camping implies simplicity. Introduce electricity and it's become and excursion or something different. Maybe some people at burning man are actually camping, but you are just being a pussy.
I'm not sure the word photograph, or "photo" implies film...
Now, I have an auto playing song on my myspace page, but it's expressly there to annoy the hell out of people. It's embedded, not using their little convenient flash thing, and i've hidden the controls so you can't stop it. And, what's better, it's Johnny Cash singing cocaine blues! Which...basically makes most people like it, but it used to be a song about grotesque things to do with fetuses! And Jesus dances to it!
That's not camping. That's a huge rave/festival.
Actually the computer example is a really good one. Electricity use is still one of the most significant sources of not only CO2, but Acid Rain. Since a big chunk of our power comes from coal-fired plants, computers collectively do quite a bit of harm. This is why I eventually wish to live off grid, so I can better control the impact my daily life has on the environment. I don't like that the majority of the power that goes into my little black box at work is made possible by dirty energy, and dirty politics that just perpetuate backwards ideas and subsidies that mask the true cost of certain sources (like nuclear).
....power...source....for camping?!
You've got to be joking...
Well, if you're marketing a car to be a roadster, you're going to want to be able to say to yourself "Today, I think i want to blast up highway 395, get on 108 to sonora, take 49 down to Fresno, 178 through lake isabella to the 14, hook back up with 395 and come home." I know, because i've done that trip before simply for the drive, and in one day (and I highly recommend it, aisde from the Fresno-to-Bakersfield kick, it's gorgeous).
Sure, 100 miles is practical, but this isn't a practical car he's marketing. He's marketting it for people who love to drive, and people who love to drive really love to drive! 100 miles is not enough, especially when you're probably going to be driving about 90-100 miles an hour most of the way. Hell, 100 miles wouldn't even get you out of the mojave on that trip. And you don't want to recharge your expensive electric roadster in Randsburg.
My last experience with Installing Linux -- Slackware 10.2
Unfortunately, that's what you get when you install slackware. It's a wonderful distribution if you want a solid linux server, but it sounds like it's about half a year to a year behind the curve. Of the issues you mentioned, i can only agree with you on CUPS, Samba, and the Microscope. On my arch linux box, all the modules I need are autolaoded via udev (which now has built in hotplug support - which means plug and play). USB Memory stick pops up on my gnome desktop right after I insert it. Sounds works without effort. My cups difficulties are mostly because of the shoddy LaserJet 1012 driver, which really is just a problem with the printer being a fake laser printer more than anything (that is, it works...but large print jobs end with the printer spitting out one page that says "Unknown Device Personality: PCL" or something like that. I can't comment on the Scanner, as I don't use one. Anyway, to summarize:
- Module autoloading works.
- Sound works.
- Automatic Detection of USB pen drives works.
- Other issues are *almost* edge cases.
Sounds like you need a more modern, desktop-oriented distro if you're going to judge linux on the desktop.
Very rarely were they diabetic fatties, either.