SN74S181 ignorantly flamed, "I have booted Intel systems from one of the OpenBSD CDs out of the set they sell. I've also booted Sparc systems from one of those CDs."
(What? Do you want a cookie?)
Then, he said: "It sounds like a case of user incompetence to me."
(exaggerated sigh). Look, don't you have anything better to do than hang around this thread being a prick? As far as my supposed "incompetence" goes, someone with more manners than you has already pointed out that it's the model of CD-Rom you're running that determines whether OpenBSD will boot; he suggested keeping an older Mitsumi around for installs. Just in case this went over your pointy little head, this means that OpenBSD is a little more sensitive to hardware issues than FreeBSD, so there is no guarantee it'll be able to boot from a given CD-Rom. And, you, you schmuck, just got lucky.
Thanks! Good info... Actually, I've been thinking pretty hard about my network card situation, and I'm rapidly warming to the idea of sending away for a set of, say, one or two inexpensive PCMCIA cards that are on the compatability list, just to keep FreeBSD available as an option. It's too bad about my network card; I kinda liked it. But, that's ok; I just checked prices, and they're not that bad anymore. Some cards are only 35 bucks! Amazing. I was reluctant to risk buying cards to test, thinking they would be like, a hundred bucks each, but if they're as cheap as they are, it doesn't seem like that big a deal.
Today's payday (we're on a weird thursday-wednesday schedule, isn't that strange?) so it might be worth it to spring for a "once and for all" network card acquisition. If the cards work, I could put FreeBSD back on and enjoy the performance increase (it IS pretty significant -- definitely noticeable).
I think I'll try out the Linksys and a Xircom card for a start. And, just in case I get lucky, I'll print out the compatability list and snoop around Comp USA and Best Buy. You never know, right?
It IS very useful. For example, I have several older versions of different BSDs in there, plus old Windows 98 installs (in case I ever have to work with old computers that won't handle more modern stuff), a couple of slackware installs, tinyLinux, and zipslack. You never know when this stuff will come in handy.;)
And, yes, I do have a collection of about thirty old games I haven't touched in a while, although I'm thinking about reopening a couple of the strategy games this week. I keep them in a couple of Exo CD cases. I don't keep old productivity apps, though. Usually I dump those.
I never really throw potentially useful things away.
Well... I did get it installed, I mean, OpenBSD didn't work but FreeBSD did. My specific problem wasn't with the install, or the software installed with the O/S, both of which I really liked. As I've said, it ran really fast on my laptops, booting in only forty seconds, which totally blew me away. And, they're only Pentium-166'es, ok? I call 'em the twins, but that's another story. Ahem.;)
My ONLY problem with FreeBSD is that I can't get it to work with my PCMCIA cards. For instance, I have a Linksys NP100, which FreeBSD recognizes, and claims to start up, but which then utterly fails (I start getting kernel error messages, over and over again). This was the only issue preventing me from switching over. Net access is more important for me than food or sex. That may or may not be a good thing, but it's true one way or the other.
Now, I've been looking at the hardware compatability lists for FreeBSD 4.8, and it seems as though two of the currently available Linksys cards are supported. So, in theory, if I were to send away for a couple of them (one to use and one as a backup in case the first one gets fried at some point) I could be all set. So this may be an option for me, and that's cool. But, aside from that, the same compatability list didn't have listings for a whole lot of other brand's current offerings. So I feel a little trapped in the Linksys cards, you know? Choice is good. I'm torn on the issue. What happens if the cards I'm using go off the market, and I have to get one? Finding a new card that'll work will be like an easter egg hunt. Well... Maybe it won't be THAT bad, but you know what I mean. It's not like you can just drop by Comp USA and grab one off the shelf.
Anyway, I like the BSDs, honestly my only problem is the hardware support issue. I didn't find the install itself all that hard, in fact, it went pretty quickly. And, honestly, I wasn't trying to troll. I was just talking about my experience with FreeBSD.
By the way, I just checked out the hardware compatability list for 4.8 and my card STILL isn't supported. Sigh... What a drag.
I checked out a bunch of brands, and I couldn't find very many of the currently-available crop of PCMCIA ethernet cards on the compatability list. Some of the old models of one brand or another were listed, but none of the new ones were. This makes my chances of getting on the network with my laptop a little iffy under FreeBSD.
The only bright side to this is that the Linksys EtherFast cards currently in production DO seem to be supported. But you're not going to be able to go down to Comp USA and pick one up (they DO sell the PCMPC100 model on their site, via mail-order). So if you blow up your card, you'll have two weeks of lag while you wait for a new one to be shipped, unless you stock up on a bunch of them in advance. Not that that isn't an option, mind you. They're only 34.95 each. Hmm...
But, that aside, one of the points I was making was that most of these cards *would* work under Linux, so the fact that they don't seem to be supported under FreeBSD is a negative thing. I'm not saying that totally, absolutely kills FreeBSD, but it does turn me off a little.
And, we're talking about internet access here. It's more important than food or sex, ok? So this IS a big deal.
Because that's what I had available, and I paid for it. For what it's worth, I did try OpenBSD 3.2 as well, which I bought recently, and that didn't even boot up to install -- none of the CDs included were bootable.
So, do you think FreeBSD 4.8 has better hardware support? If so, that's interesting. I might give it a whack, see what happens. Are you running it? Any pointers?
Thanks for the assist -- it's true, I wasn't trolling at all, just reporting my actual experience with the install CDs. None of my peripherals were supported at all -- I couldn't get any of my PCMCIA cards to work, and that really killed FreeBSD for me. The main thing was, I could have lived without some of my hardware, but I really needed to get my PCMCIA Network card working. When it turned out that it was totally unsupported, well, that was that as far as FreeBSD went. What can you do? If it won't work, it won't work.
Even if I were to try and find a supported card, most of those are pretty old models. It isn't going to be all that easy tracking one down these days, when everything is being done via USB instead of PCMCIA. And, assuming they're available mail-order, if you fry one you're off the net for a couple of weeks, while you wait for a new one -- it's not like you can just go to Comp USA and grab one off the shelf. I think the guy who called me a troll is deluding himself. Flexible, up to date hardware support is extremely important.
And, you're right, the people who say "make your own drivers" are kind of out there. It takes some pretty specialized knowledge, plus, you have to get the vendor to help you with specs, and it'll take forever, and have to be tested... Yikes. And, all in C and inline assembly, to boot. What an ordeal. I'll pass...
I tried to install OpenBSD, after paying forty or fifty bucks for a CD set, and found out that none of the CD's they'd sent me were bootable. None! The i386 wasn't, the PPC wasn't, nada. They had some info in the mini-booklet about creating boot floppies, but my laptops have a swappable floppy and CD-Rom drive, so that didn't get me anywhere. Basically, it went into a cardboard box where I keep O/S'es I'm not using, in case I ever figure out what to do with them. I wish I'd spent the money in a bar, picking up chicks. At least then if I'd gotten screwed it would have been fun.
And, don't get me started on the stickers and artwork they included with the CDs... They were like kiddie stuff, with a weird James Bond motif, no "daemon" stuff at all, and a totally bizarre story/comic about the overweight puffer fish with the lips, and how he eventually gets laid by a squid from Russia. Strange.
I don't really care that much about stickers, hell, I can download and print up my own on sticker sheets whenever I want. But I thought the whole thing was kinda bizarre.
Boy, that's the truth. I was able to get all the basic components of my laptop working under FreeBSD, but none of my peripherals or PCMCIA cards worked at all. In comparison, Red Hat picked up all my cards with no problem, and everything worked perfectly.
In my original post, I wasn't trying to start a war with the guy, I was just reporting my experience with Linux alternatives. Better people hear about them before they blow fifty bucks on a CD set, right?;)
I beg your pardon, but it is extremely rude of you to start name-calling simply because I'm not a fan of your favorite O/S. I was relating my experiences with the software, which BY THE WAY are just as valid as yours. Having an opinion different from yours does NOT make me a troll. And, I'd like to point out something obvious: unlike YOU, I didn't get snarky; I just reported my experiences.
Furthermore, I am not a newbie, as you seem to imply, having been working with Linux, Digital Unix, and VMS since 1995 (and other O/S'es since 1983). When I say that the OpenBSD CD set I bought (paying full price, not downloading an ISO) isn't bootable, I mean I tried to boot it on a number of machines and none of them were able to detect the CD as bootable. Furthermore, I read about their documented procedure for creating a bootable floppy and then realized that this would do me no good whatsoever -- my floppy disk and my CD-Rom are swappable (but not hot-swappable), so having a boot floppy doesn't do me any good, does it?
When I say that I couldn't get the PCMCIA card to work under FreeBSD, I mean that after reading innumerable FAQs on the subject, tracking down developer's web pages about it, and trying a number of things, it turned out that my HARDWARE was NOT SUPPORTED. Period. As I pointed out, this piece of hardware isn't optional for me, so that was the end of that.
People like you really annoy me. You seem to think your pet opinions are the only ones that matter, and you totally ignore the experiences and thoughts of others. You are the troll, here. Go back under your bridge.
zulux said: "If Linux *disappeared* tomorrow - I wouldn't care one bit, becasue we have FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD and to certain extent Mac OS X."
I said the same thing last week. So I tried to install OpenBSD (bought the CDs, etc) and found that the CD wouldn't boot, and that even using a boot disk, it wouldn't install on my laptops (admittedly, they're a little old, Pentium 166's). I banged my head against the problem for a couple of days, even trying to install their PPC version on my iBook, failing utterly across the board. I think I got bad CDs (I don't want to think that OpenBSD doesn't work; it MUST be the CD's, right?).
I then tried to install FreeBSD 4.5, which DID work, and very well. It was able to boot my laptop in 45 seconds flat (Linux had taken two and a half minutes). Now, I was pretty excited about this, until I found out that FreeBSD didn't have drivers for my PCMCIA cards, none of which I could get to work. I banged my head against THAT for a day or two, too, and finally gave up on it.
The result: I went back to Red Hat Linux, which although noticeably slower than FreeBSD on my laptops DOES support all of my laptop's hardware.
So, while I like BSD, if Linux goes away I'm pretty much fucked as far as my laptops go. I NEED that PCMCIA card to connect to the network (I've got a Linksys, which BSD is *supposed* to support but which it just doesn't seem to be able to handle). I'm depressed about this, as you can imagine. BSD is neat. But, what can you do?
I'm going to tough it out with Linux, and if worse comes to worst, I'll have to figure something out, BSD-wise. I hope worse doesn't come to worst. I really do. I'd hate to see Red Hat go away.
Can you imagine one of these numismatist guys at a cocktail party? (it's funnier if you picture them talking to the shrill woman from "the nanny"):
"Ah, miss, nice to meet you. My name is Ignatz, and I am a numismatist. May I freshen your drink?"
"A numismawhat?"
"A numismatist. I study coins."
"Coins."
"Yes, I study coins. like this one-cent piece, which most people call a penny." (gets vaguely unhappy look on his face for a moment).
"Ah. Nice penny. So, what, you study coins? Must be a short class."
"No, indeed! It's a fascinating subject. For instance, did you know that after the incorporation of copper in North American coins, several immediate economic effects took place, leading to..."
"Hey!"
"What? I was just going to explain the economic effects."
"Look, waldo, no one cares about the economic effects."
"My name is not waldo, it is ignatz."
"Whatever. Look, ignuts,"
"IGNATZ"
"Don't get your panties in a bunch! Jeez, you long-headed types are so touchy! Anyway, look, dearie, I'm sure numismawhatsis is very fascinating and all, but I'm hoping to meet a guy tonight. Ok? And, since you're taken already..."
"I'm not taken."
"Yer married to yer coins, ignuts."
"IGNATZ!"
"Whatever. Look, it was nice meeting you, but I have to go freshen my drink. Maybe we'll meet later somewhere, though this is unlikely."
I think you can file this article in the "most useless use of research resources ever" category. Whoever this Waterloo guy is, he REEEEALLLY needs to get a new hobby.
18 cent coins? 4.70 coins per transaction? Give me a break. I was a geek growing up and even *I* feel like smacking this guy.
Thank you -- I had thought so, but it's nice to hear it from someone else, makes me less nervous overall. So I guess I'm pretty set then; I've moved to FreeBSD at home from Red Hat. Actually, my laptop runs a lot faster now. My boot time has gone from three minutes to forty seconds. Yum!
The scene: deep in the Atlantic. The USS IBM, a WWII-type Battleship with six main gun batteries, the smallest of which is a sixteen inch gun, is steaming along when gunfire is heard off to port.
(Captain): "What was that? Are the mess crew blowing off firecrackers again?"
(First Mate): "It sounded like gunfire to port, sir. I'll check." (The first mate looks out the window). "Woah. It's a rowboat. There's an old fisherman with a.22 shooting at us!"
(Captain): "No shit."
(First Mate): "No shit, sir."
(Captain): "Well, we can't put up with this, it'll make us look bad in the Officer's club back on base. Bring guns 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6 about. Three rounds each, fire and we'll see what happens."
(First Mate): "Aye, aye sir."
(BOOM, ZING, CRASH).
(Captain): "heheheheheheh... That was cool."
(First Mate): "yeah. Hey! He's still out there!" (the fisherman is clinging to a chunk of wood about two hundred yards to port, waving his fist).
(Captain): "Some people need more persuasion than others. Ready another volley."
(First Mate): "Aye, aye, sir."
(BOOM! ZING! CRASH!)
(First Mate, looking through binoculars): "Well, he looks pretty dead, but one of his feet is still floating around out there... No, wait, a shark just ate it. I think he's gone."
(Captain): "Ahhhhh. That was interesting. We should do this more often..."
The "lite" releases are the basis for all the modern BSDs, though, aren't they? So those would be noninfringing. One can conclude from this that if Linux goes tits up over this SCO thing, home users and programmers could just switch over to FreeBSD and keep on trucking. IT shops might have a little more work to do, but FreeBSD does have Linux binary compatability, so it might not be that bad.
I for one would definitely prefer the Hurd over SCO. Hell, I'd rather use Windows XP than SCO Unix, and I hate XP. At least I'd be buying from a *relatively* innocuous and moral company (relative to SCO, I mean).
The proprietary project would be written in something like Java or VB.Net, using the proprietary languages' libraries, and would *not* be released open source. It would be closed source.
The open source version would be totally different internally, because it would make heavy use of standard libraries for whatever platform it was built on (like qt on Linux, for example). The use of the Linux-oriented libraries would make the task of porting the project to, say, Windows or Mac O/S really hairy.
Ultimately, you can't prevent someone from stealing your idea and getting in your way. But you can make it a lot harder for them to do it, raising the bar and eliminating eighty or ninety percent of the guys out there who would try.
An A/C wrote: "If the BSD's become as successful as Linux, an old court case wouldn't stop SCO from suing anyone who dares take marketshare away from them. Clearly if SCO succeeds in destroying the Linux industry then SCO will be empowered to destroy all free and, so called "derivative" Unix-es. This includes Mac OS X, too, btw."
Ah, but what you don't understand is that the BSDs are based on the original BSD code -- there is NO SYSTEM V CODE IN ANY BSD. All of the "offending" System V code was removed after the lawsuit with AT+T. Of course, this is America, so anyone can sue anyone for anything, but that doesn't mean SCO will have any chance at all of getting past counsel's instantaneous "motion to dismiss".
Anyway, I don't run Mac OS/X. I can't afford an Apple computer and I don't feel inclined to upgrade my comfortable old iBook from long ago. No, I'm actually working with FreeBSD. I tried to install OpenBSD, but the installer crashed on my old Panasonic Toughbook 25.
Wanna hear something interesting? FreeBSD boots up my Toughbook in forty seconds flat. Isn't that amazing? Red Hat Linux takes like, three minutes to boot on the same machine. And, I'm not even counting how long Red Hat takes to fire up KDE, just how long it takes to get me to the graphical login. Hmm... Another cool thing is, FreeBSD didn't come with any software automatically installed. I've got to decide to install software -- this'll help me stay patched, I suspect. No nasty surprises...
Don't get me wrong, I dig Red Hat, but I'm impressed with FreeBSD.
I guess this means we're going to start using OpenBSD instead of Linux? AFAIK, the BSDs are unencumbered because of their original lawsuit with AT+T, and their rewriting of all affected code (this was a couple of decades ago). Plus, if you're using BSD, you're mostly using the packages collection, right? If you decide to use a Linux port, you can decide on a case by case basis whether you have to worry about anything.
While the company you pointed me to as an example is interesting, it's not really in the realm I'm after (it's more a web development and service oriented company, and I'm interested in software development)... I agree with you on Open Source, though. It really is more of a volunteer/hobbyist phenomenon than anything else (of course, now I may get flamed by someone listening to our conversation, but that's ok). Don't get me wrong -- I like and respect that. But, as you agreed, it makes it hard to pay the bills if you happen to be a programmer.
What I was trying to say in my post was that proprietary platforms are more fertile ground for a programmer trying to build a new, interesting product, at least if he wants to actually SELL it. I also think he should produce a Linux/Open Source version as well, using a different language which can't be easily ported back to proprietary platforms. This lets him contribute to open source while at the same time making some money from his work. If you think about it, this lets proprietary development subsidize open source development. Kind of groovy irony, there, isn't it?
Anyway, thanks for the advice. Maybe, given your experiences, it might be a good idea to do solo projects instead of group projects. This would kill off the "too many chiefs" problem and grant greater control over the project while simultaneously reducing overhead. I'm kind of a hermit anyway.;)
Paul Graham seems kind of interesting. I've been trying to come up with a project of my own, but it's hard to come up with something that hasn't been done several times (and well) already.
One problem I've been thinking about is this: we all love open source and free software, right? I mean, I use it at home, and most other programmers do too. And, it's a given that if you build something and it's useful, someone will build an open-source knockoff within a few months. This is great from an end-user's point of view, but it screws anyone trying to make a buck in the business -- as soon as the open-source version comes out, your revenue stream will dry up. So, although we love open source because it helps us, it also makes it impossible for us to make a buck in software. I'm a little torn on this issue, as you can imagine.
So, think about this: if you can't build the next great thing on Linux and make money from it, what approach remains?
Here's an approach I've been toying with: build a proprietary version for Windows (maybe using.Net) and an open-source version in C++ for Linux. Make your money from the Windows version and offer the Linux version as a charitable donation to the Linux community. This would seem to cover both angles... It's all I could come up with as a way of making even a little bit of money.
What do you think? Any ideas? I'm kind of stuck, other than the approach I suggested. What else might work? And, please don't say "sell tech support and service" because aside from a couple of lucky cases, that generally doesn't seem to work. What model would YOU use, if you were starting a business?
Wanna hear something funny? In 2000, I was living in Rockland, commuting to New York City, doing systems analysis, and getting paid 45K -- basically I was living a hair away from filing bankruptcy. Some of the programmers were in worse shape than me; I knew one who was making only 32K -- as a Java developer. The salesmen and the "content" staff on the other hand, were making money hand over fist. Most had fancy cars, hot motorcycles, you name it. It's the same old story; the people who BUILD the technology don't get paid much, but the people who benefit from it rake it in. Anyway, someone had leaked all the salary figures, and we programmers had found out that although we had 1500 stock options, the salesmen got 5000 and some of the content staff had up in the hundreds of thousands (one had like, 345,000). Let alone the millions of options the bigshots got. Needless to say people were pissed off, and I was pretty fed up and about to quit (I positively LOATHE people who try to tell me programmers were making money during the tech boom -- if they were, I didn't know any of them).
So, I told my boss I figured the whole stock option thing was a joke, I was sick of living on Ramen while the salesmen were eating in restaurants, and I was going to quit unless I got paid a better salary. I'd run the numbers, and figured out that even if the stock were to take off (which it didn't; this was just before the crash and the stock nosedived on opening day, but that's a whole other story) I'd only make at best a few tens of thousands of dollars, total, which doesn't make up for me living on Ramen noodles for months or years. I explained to him that I'd already calculated my best possible outcome, and it sucked ass.
Basically he said that the market cap of the company was some number X (I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was some realistic number). He said that within a year, the market cap will be something like 10 times that, some huge number that seemed like total horseshit to me. So he tried to tell me that the pissy little stock option I was being offered would be worth some huge amount of money in the near future, and it was his goal that none of us programmers would "ever have to work again" (how true! the company ended up laying off right and left shortly after I left it). Then he offered me some of his personal options, which I could buy at the opening price. I was completely underwhelmed, ok? Finally, because I really was going to quit, he raised my salary to 60K and I was able to afford real food, so I stopped trying to quit -- for a while. Of course, the other programmers, who didn't complain or try to quit, stayed at their starvation rate and I was forbidden from talking about how much I was making.
What's significant about this is that:
A) my boss thought I'd actually buy all that market cap crap.
B) he hadn't anticipated that all of us programmers would break out our calculators and figure out how much our options would really be worth, and what range of return we were likely to get.
C) that he thought a verbal promise to sell me some of his options was completely reassuring.
D) that he thought I would *actually believe* that the tiny stock offering I was being given would make me wealthy (I know all about the old "microsoft secretary" rags-to-riches myth, ok? This company was definitely not a new Microsoft).
E) The only reason I got the raise (instead of being fired on the spot) was that I was the principal developer on one of their major projects, and they were mid-IPO. They moved that project to another developer a little while later, and seeing that this was a precursor to them having their revenge upon me, I quit and got a job at a non-internet company out in Jersey, where things are a hell of a lot cheaper.
F) As a side note, they patented the system I developed, and after I left, the lawyer (who I always thought was kind of an asshole) sent me a letter saying I had to sell them the patent for a dollar. I signed it -- who cares, right
Don't get me wrong, not all teachers are any good at teaching and not all colleges have worthwhile programs. I've had some bad experiences, too. Check THIS out: at one school, the head of the CS department scratched a course several seniors (myself included) needed to graduate on time, so some ding-bat he was pals with out in town could offer a totally useless course in microchip design (wtf???). Basically, the chick wanted to be an adjunct, but didn't know anything we could use for our degree, so he let her teach something useless. He tried to compromise after a few of us went ballistic, by saying we could use the stupid Microchip course instead of the advanced C in Unix course we had wanted to take, but still. It was really screwed up.
All that aside, you might want to go back and get your Masters, and try to nail a job teaching. An MS is good enough for most posts at smaller colleges, and you can't beat the lifestyle (summers off, easy hours, etc). You can't get away from office politics anywhere of course, but from what you're saying about your experience, if anyone takes you on you'd probably be able to hand them their head in a baggie. I don't imagine you'd be too spooked by a little teacher-teacher hustling...
As far as giving up the IT industry, well, I did it two years ago and I'm pretty happy (I went civil service, so I still work in IT as a programmer but the whole environment is different from corporate). You don't have to give up coding, just coding for *corporations*. Don't give up on CS itself, though.
"Cesspool of greedy people"??? My God. Where did YOU go to school???
I think you've had some bad experiences, but you shouldn't let that color your view of college. I think about it this way (I'm currently working on an M.S. in Comp. Sci):
A) Most of the people studying computer science are greedheads. And, that's okay. They're irrelevant to those of us who are not greedheads, sort of like background noise. You're not in school to be a social butterfly; you're in school to master an art. Concentrate on your studies, work with your fellow geeks, and ignore the students you don't like.
B) The real purpose of university training is for you to master a scholarly discipline. You should be there because you're fascinated by computer science, and you should want to gain access to the mentoring, advice, and assistance of your betters (specifically, professors and upperclassmen). You may not *believe* they're your betters; in our ego-driven society, people usually seem to assume that they don't ever need the help of wiser, older people. But we do. You learn more by reading the code of an older, wiser programmer than you *ever* will by getting the latest "Java for dummies" book in Barnes and Noble. I didn't always understand this, myself -- but we live and learn.
C) When you're in university, your education is directed; you're not just reading whatever book caught your eye, someone is leading you through a carefully designed program in which you'll learn all of the skills you need to be a solid programmer. Think about it this way:
Your bachelor's degree is your basic training, in which you learn programming as a craft, sort of like being an apprentice in the skilled trades (for example, say, a steamfitter). Graduation presents you with journeyman's status, in which you can assemble, install, and maintain/repair heating systems, etc.
Your Master's degree gives you mastery of the subject (you become a master) and completes your study of the main principles of computer science. This is like becoming an engineer rather than just a steamfitter; you're designing the steam plant instead of just building it. You can teach up to a certain level, here.
Your Ph.D brings your mastery to the point where you can do new research, and develop new aspects of computer science. Now you're more like an R+D engineer, developing new types of steam plants, and you're capable of teaching.
Studying computer science on your own will only take you so far. You won't be able to reach the levels you could reach if you study under someone else.
D) Is a university degree a ripoff in the U.S? It depends. If you go to a state university, it's a great bargain. Tuition is only around 1500 a semester where I live (NY). And, you have access to people who are just as smart as those in the ivy leagues (ivy leaguers hate to admit that, but I've attended both types of institutions and believe me, it's true). On the other hand, if you decide to go to a private university, you'll be paying up to 30,000.00 a year (TEN TIMES as much for the SAME INFORMATION). Hey, if you're rich, and you like ivy and granite block construction, you'd probably have a blast, so maybe it'd be worth it for you. I suspect most of us would balk.
In the end, if you love computer science and you enjoy programming as an end in itself, you can only benefit by going to college. Don't think of it in terms of finding a job afterwards; you might not, so why worry about it? Why suffer right away? Give yourself four years (up to six) of academic, intellectual bliss before you plunge into the seedy, unexciting world of daily grunt work and layoffs (why would anyone be in a hurry to experience that???). If you get lucky, you might end up an academic, working at a state college yourself. And, there lies REAL bliss: summers off, flexible scheduling, research on whatever interests you the most, a living wage (*sometimes*) and usually, a pension plan.
College is your FRIEND. College is a haven where you can associate with like minds. College is FUN.
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SN74S181 ignorantly flamed, "I have booted Intel systems from one of the OpenBSD CDs out of the set they sell. I've also booted Sparc systems from one of those CDs."
(What? Do you want a cookie?)
Then, he said: "It sounds like a case of user incompetence to me."
(exaggerated sigh). Look, don't you have anything better to do than hang around this thread being a prick? As far as my supposed "incompetence" goes, someone with more manners than you has already pointed out that it's the model of CD-Rom you're running that determines whether OpenBSD will boot; he suggested keeping an older Mitsumi around for installs. Just in case this went over your pointy little head, this means that OpenBSD is a little more sensitive to hardware issues than FreeBSD, so there is no guarantee it'll be able to boot from a given CD-Rom. And, you, you schmuck, just got lucky.
Thanks! Good info... Actually, I've been thinking pretty hard about my network card situation, and I'm rapidly warming to the idea of sending away for a set of, say, one or two inexpensive PCMCIA cards that are on the compatability list, just to keep FreeBSD available as an option. It's too bad about my network card; I kinda liked it. But, that's ok; I just checked prices, and they're not that bad anymore. Some cards are only 35 bucks! Amazing. I was reluctant to risk buying cards to test, thinking they would be like, a hundred bucks each, but if they're as cheap as they are, it doesn't seem like that big a deal.
Today's payday (we're on a weird thursday-wednesday schedule, isn't that strange?) so it might be worth it to spring for a "once and for all" network card acquisition. If the cards work, I could put FreeBSD back on and enjoy the performance increase (it IS pretty significant -- definitely noticeable).
I think I'll try out the Linksys and a Xircom card for a start. And, just in case I get lucky, I'll print out the compatability list and snoop around Comp USA and Best Buy. You never know, right?
Thanks again!
Phil
It IS very useful. For example, I have several older versions of different BSDs in there, plus old Windows 98 installs (in case I ever have to work with old computers that won't handle more modern stuff), a couple of slackware installs, tinyLinux, and zipslack. You never know when this stuff will come in handy. ;)
And, yes, I do have a collection of about thirty old games I haven't touched in a while, although I'm thinking about reopening a couple of the strategy games this week. I keep them in a couple of Exo CD cases. I don't keep old productivity apps, though. Usually I dump those.
I never really throw potentially useful things away.
Well... I did get it installed, I mean, OpenBSD didn't work but FreeBSD did. My specific problem wasn't with the install, or the software installed with the O/S, both of which I really liked. As I've said, it ran really fast on my laptops, booting in only forty seconds, which totally blew me away. And, they're only Pentium-166'es, ok? I call 'em the twins, but that's another story. Ahem. ;)
My ONLY problem with FreeBSD is that I can't get it to work with my PCMCIA cards. For instance, I have a Linksys NP100, which FreeBSD recognizes, and claims to start up, but which then utterly fails (I start getting kernel error messages, over and over again). This was the only issue preventing me from switching over. Net access is more important for me than food or sex. That may or may not be a good thing, but it's true one way or the other.
Now, I've been looking at the hardware compatability lists for FreeBSD 4.8, and it seems as though two of the currently available Linksys cards are supported. So, in theory, if I were to send away for a couple of them (one to use and one as a backup in case the first one gets fried at some point) I could be all set. So this may be an option for me, and that's cool. But, aside from that, the same compatability list didn't have listings for a whole lot of other brand's current offerings. So I feel a little trapped in the Linksys cards, you know? Choice is good. I'm torn on the issue. What happens if the cards I'm using go off the market, and I have to get one? Finding a new card that'll work will be like an easter egg hunt. Well... Maybe it won't be THAT bad, but you know what I mean. It's not like you can just drop by Comp USA and grab one off the shelf.
Anyway, I like the BSDs, honestly my only problem is the hardware support issue. I didn't find the install itself all that hard, in fact, it went pretty quickly. And, honestly, I wasn't trying to troll. I was just talking about my experience with FreeBSD.
By the way, I just checked out the hardware compatability list for 4.8 and my card STILL isn't supported. Sigh... What a drag.
I checked out a bunch of brands, and I couldn't find very many of the currently-available crop of PCMCIA ethernet cards on the compatability list. Some of the old models of one brand or another were listed, but none of the new ones were. This makes my chances of getting on the network with my laptop a little iffy under FreeBSD.
The only bright side to this is that the Linksys EtherFast cards currently in production DO seem to be supported. But you're not going to be able to go down to Comp USA and pick one up (they DO sell the PCMPC100 model on their site, via mail-order). So if you blow up your card, you'll have two weeks of lag while you wait for a new one to be shipped, unless you stock up on a bunch of them in advance. Not that that isn't an option, mind you. They're only 34.95 each. Hmm...
But, that aside, one of the points I was making was that most of these cards *would* work under Linux, so the fact that they don't seem to be supported under FreeBSD is a negative thing. I'm not saying that totally, absolutely kills FreeBSD, but it does turn me off a little.
And, we're talking about internet access here. It's more important than food or sex, ok? So this IS a big deal.
Because that's what I had available, and I paid for it. For what it's worth, I did try OpenBSD 3.2 as well, which I bought recently, and that didn't even boot up to install -- none of the CDs included were bootable.
So, do you think FreeBSD 4.8 has better hardware support? If so, that's interesting. I might give it a whack, see what happens. Are you running it? Any pointers?
Thanks for the assist -- it's true, I wasn't trolling at all, just reporting my actual experience with the install CDs. None of my peripherals were supported at all -- I couldn't get any of my PCMCIA cards to work, and that really killed FreeBSD for me. The main thing was, I could have lived without some of my hardware, but I really needed to get my PCMCIA Network card working. When it turned out that it was totally unsupported, well, that was that as far as FreeBSD went. What can you do? If it won't work, it won't work.
Even if I were to try and find a supported card, most of those are pretty old models. It isn't going to be all that easy tracking one down these days, when everything is being done via USB instead of PCMCIA. And, assuming they're available mail-order, if you fry one you're off the net for a couple of weeks, while you wait for a new one -- it's not like you can just go to Comp USA and grab one off the shelf. I think the guy who called me a troll is deluding himself. Flexible, up to date hardware support is extremely important.
And, you're right, the people who say "make your own drivers" are kind of out there. It takes some pretty specialized knowledge, plus, you have to get the vendor to help you with specs, and it'll take forever, and have to be tested... Yikes. And, all in C and inline assembly, to boot. What an ordeal. I'll pass...
Anyway, thanks again!
I tried to install OpenBSD, after paying forty or fifty bucks for a CD set, and found out that none of the CD's they'd sent me were bootable. None! The i386 wasn't, the PPC wasn't, nada. They had some info in the mini-booklet about creating boot floppies, but my laptops have a swappable floppy and CD-Rom drive, so that didn't get me anywhere. Basically, it went into a cardboard box where I keep O/S'es I'm not using, in case I ever figure out what to do with them. I wish I'd spent the money in a bar, picking up chicks. At least then if I'd gotten screwed it would have been fun.
And, don't get me started on the stickers and artwork they included with the CDs... They were like kiddie stuff, with a weird James Bond motif, no "daemon" stuff at all, and a totally bizarre story/comic about the overweight puffer fish with the lips, and how he eventually gets laid by a squid from Russia. Strange.
I don't really care that much about stickers, hell, I can download and print up my own on sticker sheets whenever I want. But I thought the whole thing was kinda bizarre.
Boy, that's the truth. I was able to get all the basic components of my laptop working under FreeBSD, but none of my peripherals or PCMCIA cards worked at all. In comparison, Red Hat picked up all my cards with no problem, and everything worked perfectly.
;)
In my original post, I wasn't trying to start a war with the guy, I was just reporting my experience with Linux alternatives. Better people hear about them before they blow fifty bucks on a CD set, right?
I beg your pardon, but it is extremely rude of you to start name-calling simply because I'm not a fan of your favorite O/S. I was relating my experiences with the software, which BY THE WAY are just as valid as yours. Having an opinion different from yours does NOT make me a troll. And, I'd like to point out something obvious: unlike YOU, I didn't get snarky; I just reported my experiences.
Furthermore, I am not a newbie, as you seem to imply, having been working with Linux, Digital Unix, and VMS since 1995 (and other O/S'es since 1983). When I say that the OpenBSD CD set I bought (paying full price, not downloading an ISO) isn't bootable, I mean I tried to boot it on a number of machines and none of them were able to detect the CD as bootable. Furthermore, I read about their documented procedure for creating a bootable floppy and then realized that this would do me no good whatsoever -- my floppy disk and my CD-Rom are swappable (but not hot-swappable), so having a boot floppy doesn't do me any good, does it?
When I say that I couldn't get the PCMCIA card to work under FreeBSD, I mean that after reading innumerable FAQs on the subject, tracking down developer's web pages about it, and trying a number of things, it turned out that my HARDWARE was NOT SUPPORTED. Period. As I pointed out, this piece of hardware isn't optional for me, so that was the end of that.
People like you really annoy me. You seem to think your pet opinions are the only ones that matter, and you totally ignore the experiences and thoughts of others. You are the troll, here. Go back under your bridge.
zulux said: "If Linux *disappeared* tomorrow - I wouldn't care one bit, becasue we have FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD and to certain extent Mac OS X."
I said the same thing last week. So I tried to install OpenBSD (bought the CDs, etc) and found that the CD wouldn't boot, and that even using a boot disk, it wouldn't install on my laptops (admittedly, they're a little old, Pentium 166's). I banged my head against the problem for a couple of days, even trying to install their PPC version on my iBook, failing utterly across the board. I think I got bad CDs (I don't want to think that OpenBSD doesn't work; it MUST be the CD's, right?).
I then tried to install FreeBSD 4.5, which DID work, and very well. It was able to boot my laptop in 45 seconds flat (Linux had taken two and a half minutes). Now, I was pretty excited about this, until I found out that FreeBSD didn't have drivers for my PCMCIA cards, none of which I could get to work. I banged my head against THAT for a day or two, too, and finally gave up on it.
The result: I went back to Red Hat Linux, which although noticeably slower than FreeBSD on my laptops DOES support all of my laptop's hardware.
So, while I like BSD, if Linux goes away I'm pretty much fucked as far as my laptops go. I NEED that PCMCIA card to connect to the network (I've got a Linksys, which BSD is *supposed* to support but which it just doesn't seem to be able to handle). I'm depressed about this, as you can imagine. BSD is neat. But, what can you do?
I'm going to tough it out with Linux, and if worse comes to worst, I'll have to figure something out, BSD-wise. I hope worse doesn't come to worst. I really do. I'd hate to see Red Hat go away.
Can you imagine one of these numismatist guys at a cocktail party? (it's funnier if you picture them talking to the shrill woman from "the nanny"):
;)
"Ah, miss, nice to meet you. My name is Ignatz, and I am a numismatist. May I freshen your drink?"
"A numismawhat?"
"A numismatist. I study coins."
"Coins."
"Yes, I study coins. like this one-cent piece, which most people call a penny." (gets vaguely unhappy look on his face for a moment).
"Ah. Nice penny. So, what, you study coins? Must be a short class."
"No, indeed! It's a fascinating subject. For instance, did you know that after the incorporation of copper in North American coins, several immediate economic effects took place, leading to..."
"Hey!"
"What? I was just going to explain the economic effects."
"Look, waldo, no one cares about the economic effects."
"My name is not waldo, it is ignatz."
"Whatever. Look, ignuts,"
"IGNATZ"
"Don't get your panties in a bunch! Jeez, you long-headed types are so touchy! Anyway, look, dearie, I'm sure numismawhatsis is very fascinating and all, but I'm hoping to meet a guy tonight. Ok? And, since you're taken already..."
"I'm not taken."
"Yer married to yer coins, ignuts."
"IGNATZ!"
"Whatever. Look, it was nice meeting you, but I have to go freshen my drink. Maybe we'll meet later somewhere, though this is unlikely."
"Miss! Wait, miss! Wait -- oh, she's gone." (Another woman walks up.)
"Hello, Miss; tell me, have you ever seen one of these before?" (holds out Indian head nickel.
(AND, SO IT GOES...)
I think you can file this article in the "most useless use of research resources ever" category. Whoever this Waterloo guy is, he REEEEALLLY needs to get a new hobby.
18 cent coins? 4.70 coins per transaction? Give me a break. I was a geek growing up and even *I* feel like smacking this guy.
Thank you -- I had thought so, but it's nice to hear it from someone else, makes me less nervous overall. So I guess I'm pretty set then; I've moved to FreeBSD at home from Red Hat. Actually, my laptop runs a lot faster now. My boot time has gone from three minutes to forty seconds. Yum!
The scene: deep in the Atlantic. The USS IBM, a WWII-type Battleship with six main gun batteries, the smallest of which is a sixteen inch gun, is steaming along when gunfire is heard off to port.
.22 shooting at us!"
(Captain): "What was that? Are the mess crew blowing off firecrackers again?"
(First Mate): "It sounded like gunfire to port, sir. I'll check." (The first mate looks out the window). "Woah. It's a rowboat. There's an old fisherman with a
(Captain): "No shit."
(First Mate): "No shit, sir."
(Captain): "Well, we can't put up with this, it'll make us look bad in the Officer's club back on base. Bring guns 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6 about. Three rounds each, fire and we'll see what happens."
(First Mate): "Aye, aye sir."
(BOOM, ZING, CRASH).
(Captain): "heheheheheheh... That was cool."
(First Mate): "yeah. Hey! He's still out there!" (the fisherman is clinging to a chunk of wood about two hundred yards to port, waving his fist).
(Captain): "Some people need more persuasion than others. Ready another volley."
(First Mate): "Aye, aye, sir."
(BOOM! ZING! CRASH!)
(First Mate, looking through binoculars): "Well, he looks pretty dead, but one of his feet is still floating around out there... No, wait, a shark just ate it. I think he's gone."
(Captain): "Ahhhhh. That was interesting. We should do this more often..."
The "lite" releases are the basis for all the modern BSDs, though, aren't they? So those would be noninfringing. One can conclude from this that if Linux goes tits up over this SCO thing, home users and programmers could just switch over to FreeBSD and keep on trucking. IT shops might have a little more work to do, but FreeBSD does have Linux binary compatability, so it might not be that bad.
I for one would definitely prefer the Hurd over SCO. Hell, I'd rather use Windows XP than SCO Unix, and I hate XP. At least I'd be buying from a *relatively* innocuous and moral company (relative to SCO, I mean).
A clarification:
The proprietary project would be written in something like Java or VB.Net, using the proprietary languages' libraries, and would *not* be released open source. It would be closed source.
The open source version would be totally different internally, because it would make heavy use of standard libraries for whatever platform it was built on (like qt on Linux, for example). The use of the Linux-oriented libraries would make the task of porting the project to, say, Windows or Mac O/S really hairy.
Ultimately, you can't prevent someone from stealing your idea and getting in your way. But you can make it a lot harder for them to do it, raising the bar and eliminating eighty or ninety percent of the guys out there who would try.
An A/C wrote: "If the BSD's become as successful as Linux, an old court case wouldn't stop SCO from suing anyone who dares take marketshare away from them. Clearly if SCO succeeds in destroying the Linux industry then SCO will be empowered to destroy all free and, so called "derivative" Unix-es. This includes Mac OS X, too, btw."
Ah, but what you don't understand is that the BSDs are based on the original BSD code -- there is NO SYSTEM V CODE IN ANY BSD. All of the "offending" System V code was removed after the lawsuit with AT+T. Of course, this is America, so anyone can sue anyone for anything, but that doesn't mean SCO will have any chance at all of getting past counsel's instantaneous "motion to dismiss".
Anyway, I don't run Mac OS/X. I can't afford an Apple computer and I don't feel inclined to upgrade my comfortable old iBook from long ago. No, I'm actually working with FreeBSD. I tried to install OpenBSD, but the installer crashed on my old Panasonic Toughbook 25.
Wanna hear something interesting? FreeBSD boots up my Toughbook in forty seconds flat. Isn't that amazing? Red Hat Linux takes like, three minutes to boot on the same machine. And, I'm not even counting how long Red Hat takes to fire up KDE, just how long it takes to get me to the graphical login. Hmm... Another cool thing is, FreeBSD didn't come with any software automatically installed. I've got to decide to install software -- this'll help me stay patched, I suspect. No nasty surprises...
Don't get me wrong, I dig Red Hat, but I'm impressed with FreeBSD.
I guess this means we're going to start using OpenBSD instead of Linux? AFAIK, the BSDs are unencumbered because of their original lawsuit with AT+T, and their rewriting of all affected code (this was a couple of decades ago). Plus, if you're using BSD, you're mostly using the packages collection, right? If you decide to use a Linux port, you can decide on a case by case basis whether you have to worry about anything.
I hope SCO is totally humiliated in this lawsuit.
While the company you pointed me to as an example is interesting, it's not really in the realm I'm after (it's more a web development and service oriented company, and I'm interested in software development)... I agree with you on Open Source, though. It really is more of a volunteer/hobbyist phenomenon than anything else (of course, now I may get flamed by someone listening to our conversation, but that's ok). Don't get me wrong -- I like and respect that. But, as you agreed, it makes it hard to pay the bills if you happen to be a programmer.
;)
What I was trying to say in my post was that proprietary platforms are more fertile ground for a programmer trying to build a new, interesting product, at least if he wants to actually SELL it. I also think he should produce a Linux/Open Source version as well, using a different language which can't be easily ported back to proprietary platforms. This lets him contribute to open source while at the same time making some money from his work. If you think about it, this lets proprietary development subsidize open source development. Kind of groovy irony, there, isn't it?
Anyway, thanks for the advice. Maybe, given your experiences, it might be a good idea to do solo projects instead of group projects. This would kill off the "too many chiefs" problem and grant greater control over the project while simultaneously reducing overhead. I'm kind of a hermit anyway.
Paul Graham seems kind of interesting. I've been trying to come up with a project of my own, but it's hard to come up with something that hasn't been done several times (and well) already.
.Net) and an open-source version in C++ for Linux. Make your money from the Windows version and offer the Linux version as a charitable donation to the Linux community. This would seem to cover both angles... It's all I could come up with as a way of making even a little bit of money.
One problem I've been thinking about is this: we all love open source and free software, right? I mean, I use it at home, and most other programmers do too. And, it's a given that if you build something and it's useful, someone will build an open-source knockoff within a few months. This is great from an end-user's point of view, but it screws anyone trying to make a buck in the business -- as soon as the open-source version comes out, your revenue stream will dry up. So, although we love open source because it helps us, it also makes it impossible for us to make a buck in software. I'm a little torn on this issue, as you can imagine.
So, think about this: if you can't build the next great thing on Linux and make money from it, what approach remains?
Here's an approach I've been toying with: build a proprietary version for Windows (maybe using
What do you think? Any ideas? I'm kind of stuck, other than the approach I suggested. What else might work? And, please don't say "sell tech support and service" because aside from a couple of lucky cases, that generally doesn't seem to work. What model would YOU use, if you were starting a business?
Wanna hear something funny? In 2000, I was living in Rockland, commuting to New York City, doing systems analysis, and getting paid 45K -- basically I was living a hair away from filing bankruptcy. Some of the programmers were in worse shape than me; I knew one who was making only 32K -- as a Java developer. The salesmen and the "content" staff on the other hand, were making money hand over fist. Most had fancy cars, hot motorcycles, you name it. It's the same old story; the people who BUILD the technology don't get paid much, but the people who benefit from it rake it in. Anyway, someone had leaked all the salary figures, and we programmers had found out that although we had 1500 stock options, the salesmen got 5000 and some of the content staff had up in the hundreds of thousands (one had like, 345,000). Let alone the millions of options the bigshots got. Needless to say people were pissed off, and I was pretty fed up and about to quit (I positively LOATHE people who try to tell me programmers were making money during the tech boom -- if they were, I didn't know any of them).
So, I told my boss I figured the whole stock option thing was a joke, I was sick of living on Ramen while the salesmen were eating in restaurants, and I was going to quit unless I got paid a better salary. I'd run the numbers, and figured out that even if the stock were to take off (which it didn't; this was just before the crash and the stock nosedived on opening day, but that's a whole other story) I'd only make at best a few tens of thousands of dollars, total, which doesn't make up for me living on Ramen noodles for months or years. I explained to him that I'd already calculated my best possible outcome, and it sucked ass.
Basically he said that the market cap of the company was some number X (I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was some realistic number). He said that within a year, the market cap will be something like 10 times that, some huge number that seemed like total horseshit to me. So he tried to tell me that the pissy little stock option I was being offered would be worth some huge amount of money in the near future, and it was his goal that none of us programmers would "ever have to work again" (how true! the company ended up laying off right and left shortly after I left it). Then he offered me some of his personal options, which I could buy at the opening price. I was completely underwhelmed, ok? Finally, because I really was going to quit, he raised my salary to 60K and I was able to afford real food, so I stopped trying to quit -- for a while. Of course, the other programmers, who didn't complain or try to quit, stayed at their starvation rate and I was forbidden from talking about how much I was making.
What's significant about this is that:
A) my boss thought I'd actually buy all that market cap crap.
B) he hadn't anticipated that all of us programmers would break out our calculators and figure out how much our options would really be worth, and what range of return we were likely to get.
C) that he thought a verbal promise to sell me some of his options was completely reassuring.
D) that he thought I would *actually believe* that the tiny stock offering I was being given would make me wealthy (I know all about the old "microsoft secretary" rags-to-riches myth, ok? This company was definitely not a new Microsoft).
E) The only reason I got the raise (instead of being fired on the spot) was that I was the principal developer on one of their major projects, and they were mid-IPO. They moved that project to another developer a little while later, and seeing that this was a precursor to them having their revenge upon me, I quit and got a job at a non-internet company out in Jersey, where things are a hell of a lot cheaper.
F) As a side note, they patented the system I developed, and after I left, the lawyer (who I always thought was kind of an asshole) sent me a letter saying I had to sell them the patent for a dollar. I signed it -- who cares, right
Don't get me wrong, not all teachers are any good at teaching and not all colleges have worthwhile programs. I've had some bad experiences, too. Check THIS out: at one school, the head of the CS department scratched a course several seniors (myself included) needed to graduate on time, so some ding-bat he was pals with out in town could offer a totally useless course in microchip design (wtf???). Basically, the chick wanted to be an adjunct, but didn't know anything we could use for our degree, so he let her teach something useless. He tried to compromise after a few of us went ballistic, by saying we could use the stupid Microchip course instead of the advanced C in Unix course we had wanted to take, but still. It was really screwed up.
All that aside, you might want to go back and get your Masters, and try to nail a job teaching. An MS is good enough for most posts at smaller colleges, and you can't beat the lifestyle (summers off, easy hours, etc). You can't get away from office politics anywhere of course, but from what you're saying about your experience, if anyone takes you on you'd probably be able to hand them their head in a baggie. I don't imagine you'd be too spooked by a little teacher-teacher hustling...
As far as giving up the IT industry, well, I did it two years ago and I'm pretty happy (I went civil service, so I still work in IT as a programmer but the whole environment is different from corporate). You don't have to give up coding, just coding for *corporations*. Don't give up on CS itself, though.
"Cesspool of greedy people"??? My God. Where did YOU go to school???
I think you've had some bad experiences, but you shouldn't let that color your view of college. I think about it this way (I'm currently working on an M.S. in Comp. Sci):
A) Most of the people studying computer science are greedheads. And, that's okay. They're irrelevant to those of us who are not greedheads, sort of like background noise. You're not in school to be a social butterfly; you're in school to master an art. Concentrate on your studies, work with your fellow geeks, and ignore the students you don't like.
B) The real purpose of university training is for you to master a scholarly discipline. You should be there because you're fascinated by computer science, and you should want to gain access to the mentoring, advice, and assistance of your betters (specifically, professors and upperclassmen). You may not *believe* they're your betters; in our ego-driven society, people usually seem to assume that they don't ever need the help of wiser, older people. But we do. You learn more by reading the code of an older, wiser programmer than you *ever* will by getting the latest "Java for dummies" book in Barnes and Noble. I didn't always understand this, myself -- but we live and learn.
C) When you're in university, your education is directed; you're not just reading whatever book caught your eye, someone is leading you through a carefully designed program in which you'll learn all of the skills you need to be a solid programmer. Think about it this way:
Your bachelor's degree is your basic training, in which you learn programming as a craft, sort of like being an apprentice in the skilled trades (for example, say, a steamfitter). Graduation presents you with journeyman's status, in which you can assemble, install, and maintain/repair heating systems, etc.
Your Master's degree gives you mastery of the subject (you become a master) and completes your study of the main principles of computer science. This is like becoming an engineer rather than just a steamfitter; you're designing the steam plant instead of just building it. You can teach up to a certain level, here.
Your Ph.D brings your mastery to the point where you can do new research, and develop new aspects of computer science. Now you're more like an R+D engineer, developing new types of steam plants, and you're capable of teaching.
Studying computer science on your own will only take you so far. You won't be able to reach the levels you could reach if you study under someone else.
D) Is a university degree a ripoff in the U.S? It depends. If you go to a state university, it's a great bargain. Tuition is only around 1500 a semester where I live (NY). And, you have access to people who are just as smart as those in the ivy leagues (ivy leaguers hate to admit that, but I've attended both types of institutions and believe me, it's true). On the other hand, if you decide to go to a private university, you'll be paying up to 30,000.00 a year (TEN TIMES as much for the SAME INFORMATION). Hey, if you're rich, and you like ivy and granite block construction, you'd probably have a blast, so maybe it'd be worth it for you. I suspect most of us would balk.
In the end, if you love computer science and you enjoy programming as an end in itself, you can only benefit by going to college. Don't think of it in terms of finding a job afterwards; you might not, so why worry about it? Why suffer right away? Give yourself four years (up to six) of academic, intellectual bliss before you plunge into the seedy, unexciting world of daily grunt work and layoffs (why would anyone be in a hurry to experience that???). If you get lucky, you might end up an academic, working at a state college yourself. And, there lies REAL bliss: summers off, flexible scheduling, research on whatever interests you the most, a living wage (*sometimes*) and usually, a pension plan.
College is your FRIEND. College is a haven where you can associate with like minds. College is FUN.
See what I mean?