Leaks of radioactive steam and workers contaminated with radiation are just part of the disturbing catalog of accidents that have occurred over the years and been belatedly reported to the public, if at all.
In one case, workers hand-mixed uranium in stainless steel buckets, instead of processing by machine, so the fuel could be reused, exposing hundreds of workers to radiation. Two later died.
"Everything is a secret," said Kei Sugaoka, a former nuclear power plant engineer in Japan who now lives in California. "There's not enough transparency in the industry."
Sugaoka worked at the same utility that runs the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant where workers are racing to prevent a full meltdown following Friday's 9.0 magnitude quake and tsunami.
In 1989 Sugaoka received an order that horrified him: edit out footage showing cracks in plant steam pipes in video being submitted to regulators. Sugaoka alerted his superiors in the Tokyo Electric Power Co., but nothing happened. He decided to go public in 2000. Three Tepco executives lost their jobs.
Additionally, it was one of those engineers who pointed out in his 1972 memo while working at US Atomic Energy Agency, the whole pressure-suppression system was envisioned as a cost cutting measure, i.e., a way to build cheaper (and weaker) containment.
In other words, GE tried to sweeten the price and TEPCO bought into it. It's OK to disparage TEPCO too btw.
The operator of the Fukushima Daiichi plant now at the centre of the crisis - the Tokyo Electric Power Co (TEPCO) - has had a rocky past in an industry plagued by scandal.... Sugaoka worked at the same utility that runs the Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear plant where workers are racing to prevent a full meltdown... In 1989 Sugaoka received an order that horrified him: edit out footage showing cracks in plant steam pipes in video being submitted to regulators. Sugaoka alerted his superiors in the Tokyo Electric Power Co., but nothing happened. He decided to go public in 2000. Three Tepco executives lost their jobs.
In one case, workers hand-mixed uranium in stainless steel buckets, instead of processing by machine, so the fuel could be reused, exposing hundreds of workers to radiation. Two later died....
Wrong. Japanese Gov't officials are saying there is likely a breach in #2 and #3, and if Japanese officials are anything like our own, they won't be admitting such things till there's a neon sign for all to see pointing it out.
You're forgetting the part in the GP post where the questions is: What do you do if you lose track of this thing buried 90' below ground? Is it impossible to lose something like that in an earthquake, particularly as the GP pointed out, if the ground it's buried in is subject to liquefaction? At that point, you actually do have to think about rust, and a failure to do so would make you one suck of an engineer.
I don't know -- it wasn't clear. After Edano, some TEPCO people were on, one of whom stated that the breach in #2 is in the pressure-supression unit under the reactor. The pressure-supression unit is the donut underneath the reactor that was built as a cost-cutting measure so that the primary containment structure could be built more weakly.
N. Japan is not tropical and wind speeds currently 1.6 km/h with gusts up to 6.4 km/h. There have been winds up to 26 km/h today, but even so, that would be a 9-10 hour journey if it blew at 26 constantly (which it did not).
This all kind of stupid anyway. Reactors #2 and #3 have probably breached and there is no containment on the storage pools. If you insist on suggesting that only noble gasses and no cesium or iodine have been released, well, have at it and enjoy the acid trip.
I suggest you buy a boat and try to keep the bilge totally dry. Secondly, ever hear of rust? I know it sounds strange, but what if it is lost (landslide, ship sinks, whatever -- weird things happen). It won't remain sealed forever.
In his most recent press conference, Edano said #3 containment may be breached. It is already old news that #2 may also be breached. There's a big steam cloud spewing from #3 as I type this.
Edano press conference going on right now. You can stream an english language translation of NHK from ustream.
Some of things he's said so far:
Radiation reached 1000 millisievert around #3 reactor for a while; all personnel were withdrawn at that time but it's lowering so they can go back in; may be a breach in #3 containment; spent fuel pool materials might reach criticality but this is not certain and probably won't happen; pouring in water can create its own risks; TEPCO is providing confusing info; dropping water from above risky to helicopters; radiation is reducing rapidly; he may have mispoke using milli instead of micro.
It's commentators like you will move nuclear forward. The "nothing to worry about" fanbois on the other hand, are the ones who will ensure its death.
Personally, I'm divided. I recognize that coal is terrible and disperses its own radioactive elements, but the whole atmosphere of nuclear power boosters makes me think of over-confident people with a deficit of prudence. I could get behind a system that would shut itself down rather than require active cooling, but there would have to be a whole lot of honesty displayed about the risks from its proponents, otherwise I'm going to be incredibly skeptical.
But that couldn't happen here because the corporations that build our nuclear plants would never cut any corners on safety because the "free market" insures that every possible safety measure has been taken.
Your sarcasm is well placed. The BWR design with a pressure-supression pool was designed so that a weaker containment system could be built as a, you guessed it, cost cutting measure. This design was been questioned in 1972 by S.H. Hanauer. Of course, because of the weaker design and the requirement for many valves and backup valves (which are notoriously unreliable), Hanauer concluded that costs are probably about the same as the safer dry containment system.
A half life of minutes -- fine, let's say 5 minutes. If I start with a ton of material, after one hour I have only 0.49 pounds. Wind at 240 km/hr is at the top end of a Category 4 Hurrican (Katrina was only a 3) -- doubt Japan is experiencing that right now from all the pictures of people walking around and such. How about two hours then, that's only a low end Category 1 hurricane -- by then, only 0.00012 pounds of that initial ton of material.
Clearly, because there are no hurricane conditions in Japan, something that doesn't decay in minutes is escaping.
No one knows if it is out -- what they know is that flames aren't coming out the side of the building right now, though that has happened twice. What is clear is that there is a lot of material in the pool and if it loses its water, that material will be exposed to air. The last time officials said anything about the pool, they said water temperature was in the 80s (C) -- about double what it is supposed to be (I heard this when streaming NHK last night so I don't have a link). And of course, there is no containment at all in reactors 1 & 3 for the spent fuel (roofs blown off), plus probable breaches in #4 if flames were visible from the outside. As for what passes for "containment" of the spent fuel pools:
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/0315/Meltdown-101-What-are-spent-fuel-pools-and-why-are-they-a-threat
Spent-fuel pools shielded only by outer reactor building
Spent-fuel pools at the plant sit in the upper reaches of the reactor buildings, near the top of the reactors so cranes have easy access to load and unload fuel.... As a result, under the right conditions, the spent-fuel pools at the plant potentially pose as large a threat of environmental contamination - if breached - as the multiply-shielded reactor cores themselves. In particular, two of the reactors - No. 1 and No. 3 - have experienced explosions that blew holes in their roofs and upper levels.
Recent events have highlighted the safety disadvantages of pressure-suppression containments.... If some unexpected event should result in steam generation or flow greater than the suppression capability, then the steam that is not condensed would add an increment to containment pressure. Since the objective of the of pressure suppression is to permit the use of smaller containment, rated at lower pressure than would be required without suppression, then incomplete suppression would lead to overpressurizing a pressure-suppression containment so designed.
Basically, the only advantage reactors like this have over dry-containment, is that they are cheaper to build at the outset, but probably end up costing as much as dry containment systems.
Wow, you have a direct feed from the Crack News Network or something?
Puzzle me this, if only radioactive noble gasses were emitted, why did the Ronald Reagan have to move even though it is miles off shore? Why was there a spike of radioactivity in Tokyo, a couple hundred miles away -- are the winds really traveling 240km per couple minutes? What about the breach in in the containment of reactor two?
Paying for the damage of a dam burst is a one time thing. After a few years, the land will be productive again, i.e., there is some salvage value.
Contrast with radioactive contamination -- the land is useless for decades at least. Every year crops can't be grown and business can't be conducted. The future costs of a nuclear disaster far exceed those of a dam bursting.
As it ain't pure water, you end up with slightly more radioactive matter with a half-life which is more like minutes than seconds, so less desirable, somewhat radioactive gas results, which is harmless well before it travels that 30km.
Secondly, there appears to be a breach in containment at reactor 2, although the radiation release could also be due to a fire, now out, at reactor 4's spent fuel pool (remember, reactor 4 was completely shut down before the quake). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12745186
Right, with reactor 4 on fire, the roof blown off a spent fuel pool and the cooling water possibly boiling off, and one of the reactors apparently leaking cooling water -- no danger at all. Fanboi.
Slashdot Mirror
What kind of idiot trusts the Federal Government to do anything but lie?
Could always use a test like Liesure Suit Larry 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk5l7MHGZAQ
skip in to about 3:15.
Or perhaps they've learned that Nuclear Plant Operators are worse liars than politicians?
Bungling, cover-ups define Japanese nuclear power
TEPCO's corporate culture has for years been about as bad as they come: Bungling, cover-ups define Japanese nuclear power
In other words, GE tried to sweeten the price and TEPCO bought into it. It's OK to disparage TEPCO too btw.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/955468--japanese-power-companies-hid-nuclear-safety-problems-wikileaks?bn=1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110317/ap_on_re_as/as_japan_earthquake_nuclear_scandals
Wrong. Japanese Gov't officials are saying there is likely a breach in #2 and #3, and if Japanese officials are anything like our own, they won't be admitting such things till there's a neon sign for all to see pointing it out.
You're forgetting the part in the GP post where the questions is: What do you do if you lose track of this thing buried 90' below ground? Is it impossible to lose something like that in an earthquake, particularly as the GP pointed out, if the ground it's buried in is subject to liquefaction? At that point, you actually do have to think about rust, and a failure to do so would make you one suck of an engineer.
http://geology.about.com/od/liquefaction/a/liquefaction.htm
I don't know -- it wasn't clear. After Edano, some TEPCO people were on, one of whom stated that the breach in #2 is in the pressure-supression unit under the reactor. The pressure-supression unit is the donut underneath the reactor that was built as a cost-cutting measure so that the primary containment structure could be built more weakly.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/greeninc/hanauer.pdf
N. Japan is not tropical and wind speeds currently 1.6 km/h with gusts up to 6.4 km/h. There have been winds up to 26 km/h today, but even so, that would be a 9-10 hour journey if it blew at 26 constantly (which it did not).
http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/47671.html
This all kind of stupid anyway. Reactors #2 and #3 have probably breached and there is no containment on the storage pools. If you insist on suggesting that only noble gasses and no cesium or iodine have been released, well, have at it and enjoy the acid trip.
Of course, the flooded land can still be farmed now. How much would it have cost if that land became unusable for decades or more?
You fail sir. Nothing can be sealed forever, and it is highly improbable that something would remain sealed for a mere 1000 years.
I'm sure they are sealed.
I suggest you buy a boat and try to keep the bilge totally dry. Secondly, ever hear of rust? I know it sounds strange, but what if it is lost (landslide, ship sinks, whatever -- weird things happen). It won't remain sealed forever.
In his most recent press conference, Edano said #3 containment may be breached. It is already old news that #2 may also be breached. There's a big steam cloud spewing from #3 as I type this.
Edano press conference going on right now. You can stream an english language translation of NHK from ustream.
Some of things he's said so far:
Radiation reached 1000 millisievert around #3 reactor for a while; all personnel were withdrawn at that time but it's lowering so they can go back in; may be a breach in #3 containment; spent fuel pool materials might reach criticality but this is not certain and probably won't happen; pouring in water can create its own risks; TEPCO is providing confusing info; dropping water from above risky to helicopters; radiation is reducing rapidly; he may have mispoke using milli instead of micro.
It's commentators like you will move nuclear forward. The "nothing to worry about" fanbois on the other hand, are the ones who will ensure its death.
Personally, I'm divided. I recognize that coal is terrible and disperses its own radioactive elements, but the whole atmosphere of nuclear power boosters makes me think of over-confident people with a deficit of prudence. I could get behind a system that would shut itself down rather than require active cooling, but there would have to be a whole lot of honesty displayed about the risks from its proponents, otherwise I'm going to be incredibly skeptical.
Your sarcasm is well placed. The BWR design with a pressure-supression pool was designed so that a weaker containment system could be built as a, you guessed it, cost cutting measure. This design was been questioned in 1972 by S.H. Hanauer. Of course, because of the weaker design and the requirement for many valves and backup valves (which are notoriously unreliable), Hanauer concluded that costs are probably about the same as the safer dry containment system.
A half life of minutes -- fine, let's say 5 minutes. If I start with a ton of material, after one hour I have only 0.49 pounds. Wind at 240 km/hr is at the top end of a Category 4 Hurrican (Katrina was only a 3) -- doubt Japan is experiencing that right now from all the pictures of people walking around and such. How about two hours then, that's only a low end Category 1 hurricane -- by then, only 0.00012 pounds of that initial ton of material.
Clearly, because there are no hurricane conditions in Japan, something that doesn't decay in minutes is escaping.
Basically, the only advantage reactors like this have over dry-containment, is that they are cheaper to build at the outset, but probably end up costing as much as dry containment systems.
And another thing -- what kind of containment is there for the spent fuel pool? You know, the one that's on fire AGAIN.
Wow, you have a direct feed from the Crack News Network or something?
Puzzle me this, if only radioactive noble gasses were emitted, why did the Ronald Reagan have to move even though it is miles off shore? Why was there a spike of radioactivity in Tokyo, a couple hundred miles away -- are the winds really traveling 240km per couple minutes? What about the breach in in the containment of reactor two?
More interestingly, what about the torus half full of water under the reactor -- will the building withstand a steam explosion when the core at some thousands of degrees hits that level, breaches the container, and releases the water? That's a big question that the US Atomic Energy Commission first asked in 1972. Cited from: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/world/asia/16contain.html
Paying for the damage of a dam burst is a one time thing. After a few years, the land will be productive again, i.e., there is some salvage value.
Contrast with radioactive contamination -- the land is useless for decades at least. Every year crops can't be grown and business can't be conducted. The future costs of a nuclear disaster far exceed those of a dam bursting.
Tokyo is hundreds of km away and is up 23 times. Not a dangerous amount, but I doubt the wind can travel 240 km in seconds or minutes. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tokyo-radiation-levels-23-times-normal-officials-2011-03-15-04540
Secondly, there appears to be a breach in containment at reactor 2, although the radiation release could also be due to a fire, now out, at reactor 4's spent fuel pool (remember, reactor 4 was completely shut down before the quake). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12745186
400 milli-sieverts/hr measured briefly (reportedly, though trust is an issue) at the plant is a lot: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/15/us-japan-radiation-factbox-idUSTRE72E14R20110315
Seems like you fall in the overly-confident underly-prudent category.
Right, with reactor 4 on fire, the roof blown off a spent fuel pool and the cooling water possibly boiling off, and one of the reactors apparently leaking cooling water -- no danger at all. Fanboi.