regarding the Dell, the only reason I knew it had no OS (because I never bother looking at that type of thing) is because they offered an OS as a paid add-on. So, if you're right that they charged for it, then you could actually get the OS and pay twice? Very doubtful, but you're working with your own assumptions instead of facts, so I can't do anything to correct you because you're just writing the 'truth' as you go.
which brings me to the point of my post: when the poster said "you can't do that. Even reputable computer shops now insist that you show them your Windows license", it was a lie. Read that first sentence. It is a lie. Read the second one. Find a 'reputable computer shop' and ask them if it is a lie.
If I told you that 'you can barely breath because the air smells like my fart', it would be a lie. Just because it is currently true in my cubical doesn't not make that lie 'the truth'.
please explain this sentence to me: "Calling a truth a lie is pretty optomistic guesswork when you haven't even seen any evidence." I've seen evidence and none of it suggested that "you can't do that. Even reputable computer shops now insist that you show them your Windows license" was the truth. Nor did anything in your post.
sorry, man, I guess you have a different definition of hatred than me. My definition is apparently a lot wider than yours and includes things that will never be punished by law and, in most cases, are not even illegal. For example, some people would lump your use of the word "redneck" in that category, some Asians I know might jump to that conclusion when you call them "oriental" [as in rug].
wrong. the hatred of the "black american" is the same as that of the mexicans, asians, irish, italians, etc, as coming from any of the other groups. people hate those who are a) different and b) a possible threat. Difference without a threat is not cause for hatred.
Immigrants threaten jobs, etc, so they must be oppressed. Planet of the Apes is an example of this. Humans had to be hated and oppressed because they were the rightful rulers. some say that women are oppressed for the same reason.
cyborgs will definitely be seen as a threat and be hated/feared. See X-Men.
"Does one really need XP and WinWord to write a memo? "
of course not. But that has almost nothing to do with the day-to-day operations of "secretaries, administrators, middle managers and the like". Outlook, Excel, Access, and Word = Office. Office is not just Word. A secretary's job is not just memos.
the bill will be shot down immediately but the guys that proposed it will be able to say "hey, look what I tried to do for you guys. More money, please. Kthnx."
first off, Red Hat can add a program to their distribution that is better than a 3rd party's version just as easily as MS or Apple can, so the whole argument is mis-directed towards Microsoft (which is typical of many people here), but to specifically answer your list of 'victims':
Winzip: Winzip is still used by anyone that wants features that are worth paying for (password protection, etc), but most people don't pay for it anyway. Those who do pay need those features and Windows XP's Compressed Folder is not an acceptable replacement.
Real Player/Music Match: this is still installed by default on many (most?) pre-built Windows systems (Dell, Compaq, etc) and is the first thing I remove when my friends buy computers and have me help them set it up. Damn I hate Music Match Jukebox. Realplayer is free and worth every penny: it is worthless. RealOne player, on the other hand, is pretty good and I am a paid subscriber.
Netscape: This is a good example. Internet Explorer replaced Netscape because of MS' heavy-handed bundling. I guess you could say that Opera was sharecropped by Mozilla on some Linux distros, too.
I meant distributed as in client-server, web services,.net remoting, etc, and other methods that use components spread across multiple machines.
As for.net not being easier to program with, that's pretty obvious. Nothing is easier the first year than what you've been working with for years. I worked with.net for about 2 years (starting with the betas) before I ever offered to use it for a client because it wasn't easier or faster while I was learning the ins and outs of the new languages.
Going from ASP to ASP.Net was a dream come true (no more script, COM dlls, finally some ASP debugging) and a nightmare (totally new language and thought processes). It was like going from MS Paint to Photoshop.
okay, I was actually going to add to my last post, I hit "submit" too soon. I was going to say "they either didn't know what they were doing or they knew EXACTLY what they were doing and fleeced your company". Of course, people like that don't last forever in this business, I make quite a bit of my living cleaning up the messes that other people leave. Messes left by conmen (at least one was literally a convicted conman) who program in all kinds of languages. None in any.net languages yet, but I'm sure is just a matter of time.
In regards to your Windows 2003 Server costs, the web edition (which seems like what you needed) is $400, no CALs required. I have a feeling you were sold Enterprise or some other (much pricier and unnecessary for web apps) version.
Your web app is hard to update because your programmers wrote it that way. Period. Saying that it is MS's fault is like saying it is MS's fault that my website is blue.
I am sorry you guys got ripped but again, that is due to people, not technology. If you think people haven't been overcharged for horrid Java, PHP, etc, then you should ask around a little more.
Knowing that the.net web app in your company was oversold and underdeveloped has NO bearing on the quality of.net as a whole. How can you make that assumption? If I charged you a million for a shitty Java app, would you say the same about Java? How many.net web apps have you worked on? Worked with? How many companies have you worked with/for that have implemented.net apps? If you have the experience and knowledge about.net web apps and.net distributed apps in financial and insurance industries to disprove my knowledge of the same, then I need to hear more from you. I'll take your word for the telecom sector because I've never worked with.net in the telecom industry as you apparently have.
if those people did know what they were doing, then you need to make some corrections to your first post. If it cost too much, was hard to maintain, etc, then they most definitely did not know what they were doing.
The projects I write in.NET (especially web apps) are much cheaper, faster, easier to develop, and more powerful than they would have been if developing in MS's previous versions.
The fact that your employer hired someone that didn't know what they were doing has nothing to do with.Net at all.
I refuse to install any further versions of Netscape because the last 2 have gotten worse and worse about installing shortcuts on my start menu and placing icons on my desktops advertising products (like AOL). The last time I installed a Netscape update, I had 5 new shortcuts on my desktop and a few in my favorites folder.
those songs would only be availabe if you shared them. Kazaa doesn't automatically share every song on your computer. it creates a "my shared folder" folder. If you decided to rip your CDs into your kazaa music sharing folder, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that you're not sharing those files with me.
It is a collection of programs. If she was looking for "Microsoft Office", she wouldn't find it on my Windows PC, either. She would find Microsoft Word, Outlook, Access, and Excel, but no "Office".
This book sits on my shelf along with Thomas A. Powell's HTML: The Complete Reference, Second Edition. These are 2 of the best reference books I've ever seen. I pick up so-called "reference" books all the time that are nothing more than product walk-throughs, case studies, or vague overviews. A good reference book is hard to find and invaluable once found.
And people who consider buying services like yours will weed out the dumb ones before deciding on the best one. Maybe you can compete on price point...
first off, that was a pretty lousy article. There are what, 3 quotes in the whole thing?
One quote says that Safari is better than IE, that is the half of the real reason for dropping IEMac. MS isn't planning on making IE for windows XP any better, why would they bother making the Mac version better?
And if MS did improve IE over Safari, they would have to make it a LOT better in order to get Mac users to drop a Mac product in favor of an MS product.
My last thought is that this is a Good Thing. Although it will only cause the MS market share to fall by 1% or so, that is a pretty large number of people that will no longer be using IE so banking and other web sites will have to write their pages so that they don't require IE or will have to lose their Mac customers.
Only if you have an IT department that works for free. I don't know any like that, we have to pay them to do the upgrades. And we have to pay them to do it when the office is closed or it also costs us productivity time. Of course, there will also be costs associated with the broken programs we used with the old version. If there were no breaking changes, it wouldn't be an upgrade at all, would it?
"2. If you or someone else wants to create upgrade RPMS for 7.x or 8, you can do that too." yeah, but I don't want to. The $100/year Windows costs is much cheaper than what you're suggesting.
I get 3Mb/sec now with Cable
on
150 Mbit/s DSL.
·
· Score: 1
I have been on ADSL since they first offered it here in late 1998. I was 13,000 feet off and clocked 1.2 Mb/sec consistantly. I just moved and am only 10,000 feet out now but can't get ADSL here for some damn reason so I sucked it up and called AOLTW and got cable broadband. I am clocking 3 Mb/sec now and am no longer a DSL advocate AT ALL.
"DRM cannot be in the control of the consumer for it to work..."
DRM must be in the control of the user, whether the user is the record company ripping the music, the shitty punk band ripping tracks from their own CD, or the user who decides to only user products that do not support DRM and loses out on many legal music choices.
What you're saying is that locks on cars cannot be in the control of the consumer for them to work. That is completely wrong. Locks on cars need to be available to those authorized to use them and somewhat of a deterrant to those who would go for the quicker, easier crime if available.
DRM needs to be available to those authorized to use it and somewhat of a deterrant to those who would go for the quicker, easier crime...
having to resort to both online help and a book and even then not being able to do what is needed... why bother with causing all of that frustration when a known product with a mature help system (albeit immature delivery method, if Clippy is used) is so relatively cheap? please don't start up with virus talk, any company that can support a product like OO.o will know even to be able to patch an MS product. I've used Outlook, word, etc for 5 years without a single virus and honestly don't know of any semi-educated user that has ever gotten an MS Office-based virus, or even windows-based. and speaking of Outlook, there is no Outlook in OO.o, that is 1/3 of the reason I use Office. And there is no Access in OO.o, that is another 1/3 of my reason. Which leaves 1/3 of the reason, Word, but Word is a better product.
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regarding the Dell, the only reason I knew it had no OS (because I never bother looking at that type of thing) is because they offered an OS as a paid add-on. So, if you're right that they charged for it, then you could actually get the OS and pay twice? Very doubtful, but you're working with your own assumptions instead of facts, so I can't do anything to correct you because you're just writing the 'truth' as you go.
which brings me to the point of my post: when the poster said "you can't do that. Even reputable computer shops now insist that you show them your Windows license", it was a lie. Read that first sentence. It is a lie. Read the second one. Find a 'reputable computer shop' and ask them if it is a lie.
If I told you that 'you can barely breath because the air smells like my fart', it would be a lie. Just because it is currently true in my cubical doesn't not make that lie 'the truth'.
please explain this sentence to me: "Calling a truth a lie is pretty optomistic guesswork when you haven't even seen any evidence." I've seen evidence and none of it suggested that "you can't do that. Even reputable computer shops now insist that you show them your Windows license" was the truth. Nor did anything in your post.
The Dell computer on the front of the catalog I got in the mail last week has a computer that comes with no OS.
I am buying a computer monday with no OS from a different 'reputable computer shop'.
Is a post 'informative' if the information is a lie? Shouldn't it be 'disinformative'?
sorry, man, I guess you have a different definition of hatred than me. My definition is apparently a lot wider than yours and includes things that will never be punished by law and, in most cases, are not even illegal. For example, some people would lump your use of the word "redneck" in that category, some Asians I know might jump to that conclusion when you call them "oriental" [as in rug].
wrong. the hatred of the "black american" is the same as that of the mexicans, asians, irish, italians, etc, as coming from any of the other groups. people hate those who are a) different and b) a possible threat. Difference without a threat is not cause for hatred.
Immigrants threaten jobs, etc, so they must be oppressed. Planet of the Apes is an example of this. Humans had to be hated and oppressed because they were the rightful rulers. some say that women are oppressed for the same reason.
cyborgs will definitely be seen as a threat and be hated/feared. See X-Men.
since we're all "defaultuser@kazaa".
"Does one really need XP and WinWord to write a memo? "
of course not. But that has almost nothing to do with the day-to-day operations of "secretaries, administrators, middle managers and the like". Outlook, Excel, Access, and Word = Office. Office is not just Word. A secretary's job is not just memos.
just like they did with Apple?
the bill will be shot down immediately but the guys that proposed it will be able to say "hey, look what I tried to do for you guys. More money, please. Kthnx."
I do the same thing. The only spam I've gotten because of that was traced to Honda.
first off, Red Hat can add a program to their distribution that is better than a 3rd party's version just as easily as MS or Apple can, so the whole argument is mis-directed towards Microsoft (which is typical of many people here), but to specifically answer your list of 'victims':
Winzip: Winzip is still used by anyone that wants features that are worth paying for (password protection, etc), but most people don't pay for it anyway. Those who do pay need those features and Windows XP's Compressed Folder is not an acceptable replacement.
Real Player/Music Match: this is still installed by default on many (most?) pre-built Windows systems (Dell, Compaq, etc) and is the first thing I remove when my friends buy computers and have me help them set it up. Damn I hate Music Match Jukebox. Realplayer is free and worth every penny: it is worthless. RealOne player, on the other hand, is pretty good and I am a paid subscriber.
Netscape: This is a good example. Internet Explorer replaced Netscape because of MS' heavy-handed bundling. I guess you could say that Opera was sharecropped by Mozilla on some Linux distros, too.
I meant distributed as in client-server, web services, .net remoting, etc, and other methods that use components spread across multiple machines.
.net not being easier to program with, that's pretty obvious. Nothing is easier the first year than what you've been working with for years. I worked with .net for about 2 years (starting with the betas) before I ever offered to use it for a client because it wasn't easier or faster while I was learning the ins and outs of the new languages.
As for
Going from ASP to ASP.Net was a dream come true (no more script, COM dlls, finally some ASP debugging) and a nightmare (totally new language and thought processes). It was like going from MS Paint to Photoshop.
okay, I was actually going to add to my last post, I hit "submit" too soon. I was going to say "they either didn't know what they were doing or they knew EXACTLY what they were doing and fleeced your company". Of course, people like that don't last forever in this business, I make quite a bit of my living cleaning up the messes that other people leave. Messes left by conmen (at least one was literally a convicted conman) who program in all kinds of languages. None in any .net languages yet, but I'm sure is just a matter of time.
In regards to your Windows 2003 Server costs, the web edition (which seems like what you needed) is $400, no CALs required. I have a feeling you were sold Enterprise or some other (much pricier and unnecessary for web apps) version.
Your web app is hard to update because your programmers wrote it that way. Period. Saying that it is MS's fault is like saying it is MS's fault that my website is blue.
I am sorry you guys got ripped but again, that is due to people, not technology. If you think people haven't been overcharged for horrid Java, PHP, etc, then you should ask around a little more.
Knowing that the .net web app in your company was oversold and underdeveloped has NO bearing on the quality of .net as a whole. How can you make that assumption? If I charged you a million for a shitty Java app, would you say the same about Java? How many .net web apps have you worked on? Worked with? How many companies have you worked with/for that have implemented .net apps? If you have the experience and knowledge about .net web apps and .net distributed apps in financial and insurance industries to disprove my knowledge of the same, then I need to hear more from you. I'll take your word for the telecom sector because I've never worked with .net in the telecom industry as you apparently have.
if those people did know what they were doing, then you need to make some corrections to your first post. If it cost too much, was hard to maintain, etc, then they most definitely did not know what they were doing.
The projects I write in .NET (especially web apps) are much cheaper, faster, easier to develop, and more powerful than they would have been if developing in MS's previous versions.
The fact that your employer hired someone that didn't know what they were doing has nothing to do with .Net at all.
I refuse to install any further versions of Netscape because the last 2 have gotten worse and worse about installing shortcuts on my start menu and placing icons on my desktops advertising products (like AOL). The last time I installed a Netscape update, I had 5 new shortcuts on my desktop and a few in my favorites folder.
those songs would only be availabe if you shared them. Kazaa doesn't automatically share every song on your computer. it creates a "my shared folder" folder. If you decided to rip your CDs into your kazaa music sharing folder, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that you're not sharing those files with me.
It is a collection of programs. If she was looking for "Microsoft Office", she wouldn't find it on my Windows PC, either. She would find Microsoft Word, Outlook, Access, and Excel, but no "Office".
This book sits on my shelf along with Thomas A. Powell's HTML: The Complete Reference, Second Edition. These are 2 of the best reference books I've ever seen. I pick up so-called "reference" books all the time that are nothing more than product walk-throughs, case studies, or vague overviews. A good reference book is hard to find and invaluable once found.
And people who consider buying services like yours will weed out the dumb ones before deciding on the best one. Maybe you can compete on price point...
first off, that was a pretty lousy article. There are what, 3 quotes in the whole thing?
One quote says that Safari is better than IE, that is the half of the real reason for dropping IEMac. MS isn't planning on making IE for windows XP any better, why would they bother making the Mac version better?
And if MS did improve IE over Safari, they would have to make it a LOT better in order to get Mac users to drop a Mac product in favor of an MS product.
My last thought is that this is a Good Thing. Although it will only cause the MS market share to fall by 1% or so, that is a pretty large number of people that will no longer be using IE so banking and other web sites will have to write their pages so that they don't require IE or will have to lose their Mac customers.
"1. The upgrade to RH 9 is free"
Only if you have an IT department that works for free. I don't know any like that, we have to pay them to do the upgrades. And we have to pay them to do it when the office is closed or it also costs us productivity time. Of course, there will also be costs associated with the broken programs we used with the old version. If there were no breaking changes, it wouldn't be an upgrade at all, would it?
"2. If you or someone else wants to create upgrade RPMS for 7.x or 8, you can do that too."
yeah, but I don't want to. The $100/year Windows costs is much cheaper than what you're suggesting.
I have been on ADSL since they first offered it here in late 1998. I was 13,000 feet off and clocked 1.2 Mb/sec consistantly. I just moved and am only 10,000 feet out now but can't get ADSL here for some damn reason so I sucked it up and called AOLTW and got cable broadband. I am clocking 3 Mb/sec now and am no longer a DSL advocate AT ALL.
evidence here.
"DRM cannot be in the control of the consumer for it to work..."
DRM must be in the control of the user, whether the user is the record company ripping the music, the shitty punk band ripping tracks from their own CD, or the user who decides to only user products that do not support DRM and loses out on many legal music choices.
What you're saying is that locks on cars cannot be in the control of the consumer for them to work. That is completely wrong. Locks on cars need to be available to those authorized to use them and somewhat of a deterrant to those who would go for the quicker, easier crime if available.
DRM needs to be available to those authorized to use it and somewhat of a deterrant to those who would go for the quicker, easier crime...
"They are also cutting support for 7.x series (and 8) in December (oddly sounds familiar)"
MS is cutting support for NT4, after only 6 years. How long has RH8 been out?
having to resort to both online help and a book and even then not being able to do what is needed... why bother with causing all of that frustration when a known product with a mature help system (albeit immature delivery method, if Clippy is used) is so relatively cheap?
please don't start up with virus talk, any company that can support a product like OO.o will know even to be able to patch an MS product. I've used Outlook, word, etc for 5 years without a single virus and honestly don't know of any semi-educated user that has ever gotten an MS Office-based virus, or even windows-based.
and speaking of Outlook, there is no Outlook in OO.o, that is 1/3 of the reason I use Office. And there is no Access in OO.o, that is another 1/3 of my reason. Which leaves 1/3 of the reason, Word, but Word is a better product.