I use Win98SE at home, with older applications (don't need anything better right now). If I remember correctly, the OS came with MSIE 5. So upgrading to 6 would be about as easy as downloading and installing Opera. I did the latter and haven't had any problems. Not even Win98 is a good excuse to keep on using MSIE 6.
Btw. tainting nostalgia (for some) is not a boolean function. Say you'd revisit something like Dune 2. Today, the deficiencies are obvious. Yet, you can still have a bit of fun playing it. It's a trade-off. Fun for (slightly) tainted memories.
er... Dune 2 was already remade once with the Red Alert engine. See: Dune 2000. Then again, even the remake is over 10 years old...
It would be like removing all the email and IM programs too, just because they got told to remove IE. (web browsers can email and IM) They are closely related software, but they are distinct, and there's no reason to cripple other functionality when complying with the request.
But if you judge by past actions, it'd be just like Microsoft to strip out ALL of IE... including the rendering engine... and any programs that depend on it.
My point is merely that they didn't/don't have to. It's a choice, on their part.
Strawman. IE's main functionality isn't to send email or IMs. Playing media is the primary functionality of Windows Media Player. Media Player does this through a number of codecs that Microsoft wrote or contracted, for which they also pay licenses to other companies (including Ligos Corp and Fraunhofer IIS).
What the EU wanted was for the media player executable to be removed. What MS did is remove the codecs as well, which makes sense from a business standpoint, as they then don't have to pay royalties on said codecs. Microsoft wasn't stopping anyone else from implementing their own codecs, particularly since MS's media player codecs were run as DirectX components (DirectShow).
More to the point with IE is that the EU right now is demanding the latter, as the former already exists in Windows 7. The removal of mshtml.dll also kills a number of programs, including but not limited to: Windows Help, Microsoft Visual Studio, All Symantec product lines, Valve's Steam content delivery system, Sony Online Entertainment's MMOs, iWin.com's offline games...
Just FYI, it's not 'shove all the rows at them', it's 'use ajax to request the rows you need and don't waste time re-rendering the other 95% of the page - and no cacheing doesn't always work'... well at least when I do it that's how it works.
Hey, can you give this speech to one of my coworkers? He seems to think "pull back all the rows in several tables via Ajax calls and filter them on the client" is the correct way to do Ajax.
Having used Netscape 4.x (all the way through 4.72 iirc), I have to agree.
Internet Explorer 4 was leaps and bounds better than Netscape Communicator, so I switched to it.
Coincidentally, I switched again a few years later when it turned out this one browser was leaps and bounds better than Internet Explorer 6. What was its name again... Phoenix? Firebird? Something like that.
IE, in addition to not allowing it to be uninstalled. (You can remove the icon)
You can get rid of iexplore.exe, but getting rid of mshtml.dll will cause no end of problems.
mshtml.dll contains the rendering engine of IE, and is a public API on Windows, including being used internally by the WebBrowser ActiveX and.NET objects.
To me this is just the EU being really fucking dumb, yet again. Anybody remember XP-N? For those that hadn't heard of it, the EU forced MSFT to make an sell a version of XP with no media player called XP-N. I'm sure there is a landfill in Eastern Europe filled with XP-N discs because the retailers said they couldn't give them away and it was more worthless than an AOL CD.
To be fair, Microsoft made that situation way worse than it had to be. They completely stripped out compatibility with windows media videos, when they didn't have to(Proof: nLite), with the argument that they had to. (which was bullshit)
And instead of offering choices of which media player to use, they offered... nothing. They torpedoed the EU's demands on purpose to make them look bad. Very childish, although I suppose if I were being sued by them for hundreds of millions of dollars, I may have done the same.:P
This isn't really a surprise. The EU got exactly what they asked for. Why would MS leave part of the media player system installed if they were legally required to remove Media Player?
I believe the phrase that applies here is "Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it."
Actually, we have Altova installed where I work... but only a single license for our entire network.
Beats me as to why we have it. The only time I ever use it is if I accidentally double-click an XML file in an Explorer view rather than opening it through my IDE.
Pentium Dual Core? 512MB RAM? Let me guess, this is an early 2007 laptop we're talking about?
Let me remind you of what the post you replied to said:
It is not a large speedup because Vista isn't all that slow compared to XP. Everyone is benchmarking it against a Vista that has been worked on to address its early problems.
The bolded part is referring to Vista Service Pack 1 or newer, not the original release.
Of which, none of them work in IE8 standards mode, except for an apparent new bug in IE8 (which goes away in compatibility mode for some strange reason).
Right, but for the web, you can't just design for the newest browsers without losing a percentage of your potential market. IE7 came out three years ago, and yet there is still a large percentage of people using IE6. My own site is still showing 20% IE7 and 15% IE6 in its stats. That's a third of my market right there!
Having struggled with two Vista PCs for many months, I am perpetually on the lookout for a better solution. (I've even considered running XP in a VM under SuSE Linux). I have a pretty powerful desktop machine, with a 2.9MHz 4-core i7, 6GB of fast RAM, two Velociraptors and an SSD. This machine is very sluggish running 64-bit Vista SP2, and I am sick and tired of seeing everyday applications like Firefox flagged "Not Responding" (and living right up to that) for as much as minutes on end - while Task Manager shows the idle process running 85% of the time.
It's funny, my desktop's hardware is not as good as your desktop's, and yet I've never experienced problems like these.
To be more exact, my computer has: Vista x64 SP1 Intel Q6600 (pre-i7 Quad Core 2.4Ghz) 3GB DDR2 667Mhz RAM / recently upgraded to 8GB DDR2 800Mhz RAM 2x320GB 7200RPM drives 1GB Western Digital MyBook external drive (connected via Firewire) nVisia 8500GT video card
The only time things seem to freeze is when I access the external drive and I have to wait for it to spin up. Which is, unfortunately, every time I access an Open or Save dialog and navigate to the Computer section.
To repeat what Archon-X said in another part of this thread:
Tell me why you'd possibly need 32 style tags in a HTML document?
to which I'll add "You're doing it wrong!"
IE does make it more difficult for web developers, but this is a terrible example as to why. Position is Everything has an entire list of valid reasons; the style tag limit isn't on that list for a reason.
er... anything based on the Source (Orange box) engine does.
As I recall, even the Unreal Tournament engine from a decade ago (1999) does... it causes issues with games based on it, like Deus Ex, because they expected these operations to be performed serially for whatever reason.
In order to run Deus Ex on a modern version of Windows, you have to bind it to a single core.
Slashdot Mirror
That is, if you don't mind all the singing!
er... Dune 2 was already remade once with the Red Alert engine. See: Dune 2000. Then again, even the remake is over 10 years old...
Out of curiosity, how much RAM does the DSi have?
Strawman. IE's main functionality isn't to send email or IMs. Playing media is the primary functionality of Windows Media Player. Media Player does this through a number of codecs that Microsoft wrote or contracted, for which they also pay licenses to other companies (including Ligos Corp and Fraunhofer IIS).
What the EU wanted was for the media player executable to be removed. What MS did is remove the codecs as well, which makes sense from a business standpoint, as they then don't have to pay royalties on said codecs. Microsoft wasn't stopping anyone else from implementing their own codecs, particularly since MS's media player codecs were run as DirectX components (DirectShow).
More to the point with IE is that the EU right now is demanding the latter, as the former already exists in Windows 7. The removal of mshtml.dll also kills a number of programs, including but not limited to: Windows Help, Microsoft Visual Studio, All Symantec product lines, Valve's Steam content delivery system, Sony Online Entertainment's MMOs, iWin.com's offline games...
ICQ Number? 775498.
Don't bother messaging it, though, I haven't used ICQ in at least 5 years.
Of course, part of that is because numbers are a lot easier to spam, and Pidgin doesn't seem to have good spam blocking for ICQ.
If you'd read the article, you'd notice that VisiCalc is mentioned in the Lotus 123 description.
"We cannae even do that in the 23rd century!" -- Scotty, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
As long as we don't get the Terminator future...
Hey, can you give this speech to one of my coworkers? He seems to think "pull back all the rows in several tables via Ajax calls and filter them on the client" is the correct way to do Ajax.
Having used Netscape 4.x (all the way through 4.72 iirc), I have to agree.
Internet Explorer 4 was leaps and bounds better than Netscape Communicator, so I switched to it.
Coincidentally, I switched again a few years later when it turned out this one browser was leaps and bounds better than Internet Explorer 6. What was its name again... Phoenix? Firebird? Something like that.
You can get rid of iexplore.exe, but getting rid of mshtml.dll will cause no end of problems.
mshtml.dll contains the rendering engine of IE, and is a public API on Windows, including being used internally by the WebBrowser ActiveX and .NET objects.
There's a company right now that has that kind of numbers? Which one: HP?
This isn't really a surprise. The EU got exactly what they asked for. Why would MS leave part of the media player system installed if they were legally required to remove Media Player?
I believe the phrase that applies here is "Be careful what you wish for... you just might get it."
If that were the truth, they'd come with Windows Live OneCare, not Norton AntiVirus.
Actually, we have Altova installed where I work... but only a single license for our entire network.
Beats me as to why we have it. The only time I ever use it is if I accidentally double-click an XML file in an Explorer view rather than opening it through my IDE.
Pentium Dual Core? 512MB RAM? Let me guess, this is an early 2007 laptop we're talking about?
Let me remind you of what the post you replied to said:
The bolded part is referring to Vista Service Pack 1 or newer, not the original release.
Right, but for the web, you can't just design for the newest browsers without losing a percentage of your potential market. IE7 came out three years ago, and yet there is still a large percentage of people using IE6. My own site is still showing 20% IE7 and 15% IE6 in its stats. That's a third of my market right there!
My entire post was pointing at a specific company's tactics.
The push to 64-bit would probably go faster if Intel's Atom processor were to up and die. Almost the entire product line of Atoms are 32-bit only.
It's funny, my desktop's hardware is not as good as your desktop's, and yet I've never experienced problems like these.
To be more exact, my computer has:
Vista x64 SP1
Intel Q6600 (pre-i7 Quad Core 2.4Ghz)
3GB DDR2 667Mhz RAM / recently upgraded to 8GB DDR2 800Mhz RAM
2x320GB 7200RPM drives
1GB Western Digital MyBook external drive (connected via Firewire)
nVisia 8500GT video card
The only time things seem to freeze is when I access the external drive and I have to wait for it to spin up. Which is, unfortunately, every time I access an Open or Save dialog and navigate to the Computer section.
To repeat what Archon-X said in another part of this thread:
to which I'll add "You're doing it wrong!"
IE does make it more difficult for web developers, but this is a terrible example as to why. Position is Everything has an entire list of valid reasons; the style tag limit isn't on that list for a reason.
Last time I checked, my checkbook wasn't a light source.
er... I thought they were comparing it with Vista, not Windows ME.
er... anything based on the Source (Orange box) engine does.
As I recall, even the Unreal Tournament engine from a decade ago (1999) does... it causes issues with games based on it, like Deus Ex, because they expected these operations to be performed serially for whatever reason.
In order to run Deus Ex on a modern version of Windows, you have to bind it to a single core.
I don't know, I'd rather it be tested against FreeBSD 7.2 with x.org running. After all, lets compare oranges to oranges (we aren't comparing Apples).