Can KDE compile without help on a clean system? That would be nifty.
I'm talking about the 8 days where kde-base wouldn't compile due to a bug in the build script that affected fam where the build script used a tool that was masked in the stable branch. This bug could not have happened if someone had tried it on a stable system before it was released to the stable branch. Mod me a troll if you like, but I'm not making this up.
Re:I've said it before and I'll say it again
on
XFree86 4.4 Released
·
· Score: 1
That still isn't going to help you with, say, dual monitors, or other non-standard configurations.
approach to fighting spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work.
( ) Spammers can easily use it to harvest email addresses ( ) Mailing lists and other legitimate email uses would be affected ( ) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money ( ) It is defenseless against brute force attacks (x) It will stop spam for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it (x) Users of email will not put up with it ( ) Microsoft will not put up with it ( ) The police will not put up with it ( ) Requires too much cooperation from spammers ( ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once (x) Many email users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers ( ) Spammers don't care about invalid addresses in their lists ( ) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business
Specifically, your plan fails to account for
( ) Laws expressly prohibiting it ( ) Lack of centrally controlling authority for email (x) Open relays in foreign countries ( ) Ease of searching tiny alphanumeric address space of all email addresses ( ) Asshats ( ) Jurisdictional problems ( ) Unpopularity of weird new taxes ( ) Public reluctance to accept weird new forms of money (x) Huge existing software investment in SMTP (x) Susceptibility of protocols other than SMTP to attack ( ) Willingness of users to install OS patches received by email ( ) Armies of worm riddled broadband-connected Windows boxes ( ) Eternal arms race involved in all filtering approaches ( ) Extreme profitability of spam ( ) Joe jobs and/or identity theft ( ) Technically illiterate politicians ( ) Extreme stupidity on the part of people who do business with spammers ( ) Dishonesty on the part of spammers themselves ( ) Bandwidth costs that are unaffected by client filtering ( ) Outlook
and the following philosophical objections may also apply:
(x) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever been shown practical ( ) Any scheme based on opt-out is unacceptable ( ) SMTP headers should not be the subject of legislation ( ) Blacklists suck ( ) Whitelists suck ( ) We should be able to talk about Viagra without being censored ( ) Countermeasures should not involve wire fraud or credit card fraud (x) Countermeasures should not involve sabotage of public networks ( ) Countermeasures must work if phased in gradually ( ) Sending email should be free ( ) Why should we have to trust you and your servers? ( ) Incompatiblity with open source or open source licenses ( ) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem ( ) Temporary/one-time email addresses are cumbersome ( ) I don't want the government reading my email ( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough
Furthermore, this is what I think about you:
(x) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work. ( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it. ( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your house down!
such blocking port 25 and insisting mail is relayed through their own SMTP servers, which would kill this spam stone dead at a stroke).
That would be extremely annoying. I need SMTP connections to the university and to work, and I'd really rather not set up SSH tunnels for everything. Sure spam is annoying, but it's sure not my computers doing it.
That is not true, and if you had used some decent documentation you'd know it. It depends on which UNIX you're talking about, and it varies, but some of them are MUCH better documented.
I had attempted to put together a Linux firewall machine and use it on my desktop machine a number of times, but I could never get it working enough to make it worthwhile. Know what turned it around? I gave up on Linux for the firewall machine, and tried OpenBSD. The documentation was so much better, so utterly superior that I had everything I wanted working within about 3 hours.
And then, with what I had learned, it took about an afternoon to get Linux working on my desktop. This was around november last year.
With OpenBSD, if it's not in the faq it's in the man pages. If it's not in the man pages they say specifically where it is. Linux isn't anywhere near that point, even for the core stuff. I still ssh from my Linux machine to my OpenBSD machine just to get the man pages because they're that much better. These man pages are distributed under a license that would allow any Linux distribution to use them, or modify them and then use them. And yet they don't even take that setp. Go figure.
My Windows machine at work handles some pretty big Java projects, so I respect it. My Linux machine went down once with a dying hard drive I was trying to back up, which I can forgive. OpenBSD is indestructable. My OpenBSD firewall had a bad hard drive, but I didn't notice because nothing changed. I only noticed when I couldn't log in. Dunno how long the drive had been dead, something less than 2 weeks.
The only OS I've seen go down without an excuse in the last year or so is OS X. With 10.2, it was network drives. With 10.3, ssh tunnels seem to make it unstable, and don't even try NFS mounts through an SSH tunnel. You don't last 30 seconds.
I basically had to load drivers for my video card (Matrox G550 AGP) and my sound (Intel ICH5). This is two lines in loader.conf and how to do it is well documented.
The biggest irritation driver-wise is lack of ext2 support in the GENERIC kernel, but even that is minor because I had to recompile to get the ULE scheduler anyway. ULE will be the default in 5.3, and apparently ext2 will be there as well.
The real problem I have with it is that a few desktop-related things don't quite work, or take effort. Gotta set environment variables when you install to get kuickshow in KDE. Arts doesn't behave. You can't trivially install flash, and without flash, there is no homestar runner. Stuff like that. I wouldn't hesitate to use FreeBSD on a production server, but it's lacking for a desktop.
So I'm back on Gentoo, but I'm not happy about it. I can't go back to life with out a ports-like mechanism, but the "stable" portage tree can't always build stuff, and IMO a tree should not be called "stable" unless it can always compile. There are regularly problems that could never occur unless no one had even tried something before releasing it, and these can take days to fix.
sigh... I've said it before and I'll say it again. Everything except OpenBSD makes me angry.
Well... It doesn't need to be a worm to wipe out most of the infected computers. If your goal is to disinfect machines and remove the vulnerability, a few machines would be sufficient. It wouldn't be as fast as a worm, and it would be easier to trace, but all you'd really need to do is scan the entire address space several times per day for a few days. That's practical for a few computers on broadband connections.
Not that I would condone that. The person who did something like that would be responsible for any problems the "solution" caused, ethically and legally. And with a group of machines that large, there would be problems. I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily involve self-replicating code.
It's the excuse we give ourselves for buying fast computers. Much of the benefit is percieved, but it's like that with all desktop computers.
I'm not sorry though. I had to use SunONE Studio recently and this machine is the only computer I've ever seen that could run it gracefully*. And I've got these data files that I can crunch through in a reasonable amount of time with trivial python scripts instead of finely tuned C. Crap like that comes up all the time.
Sure, I want to be able to start an "emerge -e world" before I go to bed and have it finish before I get home the next day. I admit it. But there are many benefits apart from that.
Besides, a heavily used Slakckware installation builds up cruft pretty quickly. It's a lot easier to keep a Gentoo box tidy long term. And Slackware is perfectly at home on a P2. When I bring in my box for a really big week at work, I want my coworkers to nod appreciatively.
* There's some dual Xeons at the office that could probably do it if they weren't running Windows.
Re:Maybe time to drop this "securitier than thou"
on
Remotely Crash OpenBSD
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· Score: 1
and if you're counting the number of remote root exploits, you can use a 2 bit register with a signed value.
I tried Linux a while ago, and while it was everything I needed for server stuff, I couldn't get a number of things working right, and one of those things was sound. I wanted Linux, and sound was one of the percieved barriers. When I found out how KDE handled sound with arts, it was one of the things that pushed me in the direction of KDE and removed a barrier.
When I got the machine I have now I got a free copy of XP Pro (legally with the MSDNAA) it lost the race with the Linux partition to a working system. The network drivers didn't work for my onboard network (had to use an old 3Com nic to bootstrap), and I couldn't get the thing to display at 1280x1024. Uhg. I was surprised it was easier with Linux.
I've found with KDE 3.1 that it's just got all the little refinements that makes it less of a PITA than anything else. I tried gnome, and it frustrates me because it's difficult to find things and set them up. Windows and MacOS frustrate me too, they take a more effort than KDE. And with Gentoo/Portage, it takes very little effort to maintain things...
Jails basically create a complete virtual computer with less overhead than a user space linux kernel. Also, a jail keeps processes from using any network address except for a specified address, and a private loopback address. The jailed process can't see processes outside, and couldn't send signals to them if it could. Basically, a jail can be treated as a completely seperate computer that shares some hardware. It'll have (if configured correctly) its own sshd, accounts, and so on. You can even install the gnu tools and use the linux compatability features to have an almost-linux box inside your FreeBSD box.
chroot can be excaped by a user with root privileges, or by an executable with root privileges or that is suid root. chroot does not block system calls, but jails do.
Some Linux people like to think that it's just them, Windows, and the commercial Unixes.
The trolls are probably a small number of people that have their own reasons that wouldn't make sense to us. As for the rest... I have a friend that thinks Linux will gradually force everything out because it's good enough at everything, rather than really good at any particular thing. He's not a zealot, but that's what he thinks. I think that's a common attitude.
(many) Linux supporters see the OS world as a tripod: themselves, Windows, and commerical UNIXes. The BSDs occupy the same space as Linux. Using a license that allows work to be "stolen", competing with them for talent and mindshare. That's not a comfortable position to be in. I mean, there are those that really get honestly angry over the BSD license.
Frankly, the whole attitude that there should be one OS to do everything confuses me. Some goals are mutually exclusive.
Yes, I know. Linux's scheduler is very good, and FreeBSD builds on it. I'm sure they'll exchange ideas more than once before it settles down. The issue I'm talking about is the locking, which is more finely grained in FreeBSD 5. It's possible to have more system calls in flight at once, especially with things that are critical to performance, like the network stack.
Documentation is an example that comes to mind. I don't mean "man ls". I mean, the base system plus the handbook have enough documentation between them to do just about anything needed. I need to hit Google for anything hard on Linux, and Gentoo has better documentation and a more intuitive setup than most.
I often ssh to my OpenBSD machine to find out how to do something on Linux because otherwise I'll be sifting through newsgroups for an hour.
Slashdot Mirror
Can KDE compile without help on a clean system? That would be nifty. I'm talking about the 8 days where kde-base wouldn't compile due to a bug in the build script that affected fam where the build script used a tool that was masked in the stable branch. This bug could not have happened if someone had tried it on a stable system before it was released to the stable branch. Mod me a troll if you like, but I'm not making this up.
That still isn't going to help you with, say, dual monitors, or other non-standard configurations.
Your post advocates a
(x) technical ( ) legislative ( ) market-based ( ) vigilante
approach to fighting spam. Your idea will not work. Here is why it won't work.
( ) Spammers can easily use it to harvest email addresses
( ) Mailing lists and other legitimate email uses would be affected
( ) No one will be able to find the guy or collect the money
( ) It is defenseless against brute force attacks
(x) It will stop spam for two weeks and then we'll be stuck with it
(x) Users of email will not put up with it
( ) Microsoft will not put up with it
( ) The police will not put up with it
( ) Requires too much cooperation from spammers
( ) Requires immediate total cooperation from everybody at once
(x) Many email users cannot afford to lose business or alienate potential employers
( ) Spammers don't care about invalid addresses in their lists
( ) Anyone could anonymously destroy anyone else's career or business
Specifically, your plan fails to account for
( ) Laws expressly prohibiting it
( ) Lack of centrally controlling authority for email
(x) Open relays in foreign countries
( ) Ease of searching tiny alphanumeric address space of all email addresses
( ) Asshats
( ) Jurisdictional problems
( ) Unpopularity of weird new taxes
( ) Public reluctance to accept weird new forms of money
(x) Huge existing software investment in SMTP
(x) Susceptibility of protocols other than SMTP to attack
( ) Willingness of users to install OS patches received by email
( ) Armies of worm riddled broadband-connected Windows boxes
( ) Eternal arms race involved in all filtering approaches
( ) Extreme profitability of spam
( ) Joe jobs and/or identity theft
( ) Technically illiterate politicians
( ) Extreme stupidity on the part of people who do business with spammers
( ) Dishonesty on the part of spammers themselves
( ) Bandwidth costs that are unaffected by client filtering
( ) Outlook
and the following philosophical objections may also apply:
(x) Ideas similar to yours are easy to come up with, yet none have ever been shown practical
( ) Any scheme based on opt-out is unacceptable
( ) SMTP headers should not be the subject of legislation
( ) Blacklists suck
( ) Whitelists suck
( ) We should be able to talk about Viagra without being censored
( ) Countermeasures should not involve wire fraud or credit card fraud
(x) Countermeasures should not involve sabotage of public networks
( ) Countermeasures must work if phased in gradually
( ) Sending email should be free
( ) Why should we have to trust you and your servers?
( ) Incompatiblity with open source or open source licenses
( ) Feel-good measures do nothing to solve the problem
( ) Temporary/one-time email addresses are cumbersome
( ) I don't want the government reading my email
( ) Killing them that way is not slow and painful enough
Furthermore, this is what I think about you:
(x) Sorry dude, but I don't think it would work.
( ) This is a stupid idea, and you're a stupid person for suggesting it.
( ) Nice try, assh0le! I'm going to find out where you live and burn your house down!
ahhhhhhh
I love having an uncapped cable modem for less than a capped modem costs in the US.
That is not true, and if you had used some decent documentation you'd know it. It depends on which UNIX you're talking about, and it varies, but some of them are MUCH better documented.
I had attempted to put together a Linux firewall machine and use it on my desktop machine a number of times, but I could never get it working enough to make it worthwhile. Know what turned it around? I gave up on Linux for the firewall machine, and tried OpenBSD. The documentation was so much better, so utterly superior that I had everything I wanted working within about 3 hours.
And then, with what I had learned, it took about an afternoon to get Linux working on my desktop. This was around november last year.
With OpenBSD, if it's not in the faq it's in the man pages. If it's not in the man pages they say specifically where it is. Linux isn't anywhere near that point, even for the core stuff. I still ssh from my Linux machine to my OpenBSD machine just to get the man pages because they're that much better. These man pages are distributed under a license that would allow any Linux distribution to use them, or modify them and then use them. And yet they don't even take that setp. Go figure.
We're not almost there. HCI is shit work and there's a reason no one wants to do it.
My Windows machine at work handles some pretty big Java projects, so I respect it. My Linux machine went down once with a dying hard drive I was trying to back up, which I can forgive. OpenBSD is indestructable. My OpenBSD firewall had a bad hard drive, but I didn't notice because nothing changed. I only noticed when I couldn't log in. Dunno how long the drive had been dead, something less than 2 weeks. The only OS I've seen go down without an excuse in the last year or so is OS X. With 10.2, it was network drives. With 10.3, ssh tunnels seem to make it unstable, and don't even try NFS mounts through an SSH tunnel. You don't last 30 seconds.
It's been done. See my sig.
I basically had to load drivers for my video card (Matrox G550 AGP) and my sound (Intel ICH5). This is two lines in loader.conf and how to do it is well documented.
The biggest irritation driver-wise is lack of ext2 support in the GENERIC kernel, but even that is minor because I had to recompile to get the ULE scheduler anyway. ULE will be the default in 5.3, and apparently ext2 will be there as well.
The real problem I have with it is that a few desktop-related things don't quite work, or take effort. Gotta set environment variables when you install to get kuickshow in KDE. Arts doesn't behave. You can't trivially install flash, and without flash, there is no homestar runner. Stuff like that. I wouldn't hesitate to use FreeBSD on a production server, but it's lacking for a desktop.
So I'm back on Gentoo, but I'm not happy about it. I can't go back to life with out a ports-like mechanism, but the "stable" portage tree can't always build stuff, and IMO a tree should not be called "stable" unless it can always compile. There are regularly problems that could never occur unless no one had even tried something before releasing it, and these can take days to fix.
sigh... I've said it before and I'll say it again. Everything except OpenBSD makes me angry.
if only a post could get modded higher than 5...
Well... It doesn't need to be a worm to wipe out most of the infected computers. If your goal is to disinfect machines and remove the vulnerability, a few machines would be sufficient. It wouldn't be as fast as a worm, and it would be easier to trace, but all you'd really need to do is scan the entire address space several times per day for a few days. That's practical for a few computers on broadband connections.
Not that I would condone that. The person who did something like that would be responsible for any problems the "solution" caused, ethically and legally. And with a group of machines that large, there would be problems. I'm just saying it doesn't necessarily involve self-replicating code.
It's the excuse we give ourselves for buying fast computers. Much of the benefit is percieved, but it's like that with all desktop computers.
I'm not sorry though. I had to use SunONE Studio recently and this machine is the only computer I've ever seen that could run it gracefully*. And I've got these data files that I can crunch through in a reasonable amount of time with trivial python scripts instead of finely tuned C. Crap like that comes up all the time.
Sure, I want to be able to start an "emerge -e world" before I go to bed and have it finish before I get home the next day. I admit it. But there are many benefits apart from that.
Besides, a heavily used Slakckware installation builds up cruft pretty quickly. It's a lot easier to keep a Gentoo box tidy long term. And Slackware is perfectly at home on a P2. When I bring in my box for a really big week at work, I want my coworkers to nod appreciatively.
* There's some dual Xeons at the office that could probably do it if they weren't running Windows.
and if you're counting the number of remote root exploits, you can use a 2 bit register with a signed value.
Actually...
I tried Linux a while ago, and while it was everything I needed for server stuff, I couldn't get a number of things working right, and one of those things was sound. I wanted Linux, and sound was one of the percieved barriers. When I found out how KDE handled sound with arts, it was one of the things that pushed me in the direction of KDE and removed a barrier.
When I got the machine I have now I got a free copy of XP Pro (legally with the MSDNAA) it lost the race with the Linux partition to a working system. The network drivers didn't work for my onboard network (had to use an old 3Com nic to bootstrap), and I couldn't get the thing to display at 1280x1024. Uhg. I was surprised it was easier with Linux.
I've found with KDE 3.1 that it's just got all the little refinements that makes it less of a PITA than anything else. I tried gnome, and it frustrates me because it's difficult to find things and set them up. Windows and MacOS frustrate me too, they take a more effort than KDE. And with Gentoo/Portage, it takes very little effort to maintain things...
Jails basically create a complete virtual computer with less overhead than a user space linux kernel. Also, a jail keeps processes from using any network address except for a specified address, and a private loopback address. The jailed process can't see processes outside, and couldn't send signals to them if it could. Basically, a jail can be treated as a completely seperate computer that shares some hardware. It'll have (if configured correctly) its own sshd, accounts, and so on. You can even install the gnu tools and use the linux compatability features to have an almost-linux box inside your FreeBSD box.
s /a rch-handbook/jail.html
chroot can be excaped by a user with root privileges, or by an executable with root privileges or that is suid root. chroot does not block system calls, but jails do.
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/book
(many) Linux supporters see the OS world as a tripod: themselves, Windows, and commerical UNIXes. The BSDs occupy the same space as Linux. Using a license that allows work to be "stolen", competing with them for talent and mindshare. That's not a comfortable position to be in. I mean, there are those that really get honestly angry over the BSD license.
Frankly, the whole attitude that there should be one OS to do everything confuses me. Some goals are mutually exclusive.
Theo made some very public statements about US foreign policy.
I'm tired of seeing this.
They get free hosting and bandwidth from the U of Alberta. The U of Alberta uses Solaris.
Yes, I know. Linux's scheduler is very good, and FreeBSD builds on it. I'm sure they'll exchange ideas more than once before it settles down. The issue I'm talking about is the locking, which is more finely grained in FreeBSD 5. It's possible to have more system calls in flight at once, especially with things that are critical to performance, like the network stack.
Documentation is an example that comes to mind. I don't mean "man ls". I mean, the base system plus the handbook have enough documentation between them to do just about anything needed. I need to hit Google for anything hard on Linux, and Gentoo has better documentation and a more intuitive setup than most.
I often ssh to my OpenBSD machine to find out how to do something on Linux because otherwise I'll be sifting through newsgroups for an hour.
My music used to skip (2.4). My music no longer skips (2.6). Next question, please.