Heheh. I got mine right out of high school, programming (Cobol. ugh.) I am fully aware of how lucky I am though. That is NOT the norm, and can never be something that high-school students can expect - or even work for. Chances are, that without a degree, you are hosed at the start, IMO. And that's not right. ESPECIALLY as degrees held rarely reflect more than vaguely on the position held. Over the years I've noticed how rare it is to get a career in the field you studied for.
You DID make shit up, you little smug little prick. You made up the "And to live a life of luxury and parties while you were there? Wow. Dumb parents" and "Also, who the hell told you to major in English Literature". You posted crap you completely made up to justify you being an asshole, and to make yourself feel good.
And you aren't done making shit up yet, are you?
"And there are lots of jobs out there, they're just jobs that you apparently think you are above"
Above? Hahaha! Never said I needed one, that I was looking, or even implied I had outstanding loans, did I? It is a FACT that there are more job seekers than available jobs - or did you not get the memo? It ain't because anyone is 'above' them - its because they DON'T EXIST. And for the record, I haven't been in school for 30 years, and I did everything from shovelling shit, to unskilled construction (summer jobs), arcade attendant (a real thrill), to washing dishes and running a register when I WAS in school - you are COMPLETELY off base. But that's OK. I'm sure you don't understand that people can hold opinions that aren't entirely self-serving, and that must be why you think I must be lamenting student loans and not having a job that can pay them off.
You're just making shit up to justify your 'position'.
But I think I get it - you must live in the libertarian fantasy-land where you can always get a job, (translation: the job market is somehow infinite), so you can justify all your sophomoric ideologies.
Not everybody can afford to pay out of pocket, and colleges that can be paid for by (non-existent, have you heard? Job seekers outnumber jobs) part-time work are as extinct as the dodo. Despite that, college is necessary to find jobs above the poverty line.
"And to live a life of luxury and parties while you were there? Wow. Dumb parents"
Uh huh. Not only an idiot, a mean-spirited idiot.
"In fact they pretty much insisted that everyone have a job while they went to school."
Uh huh. And these mythical jobs are where? You must be a right winger, assuming the job market is always infinite, that there are always available jobs.
"Also, who the hell told you to major in English Literature?"
Yup, idiotic right-wing asshole, making shit up in order to spread a little unjustified unhappiness around. But I'll bet that makes YOU feel great, doesn't it?
This is almost true. There are some problems with your post, though.
"Educators will tell you that perhaps college should be reserved for those with the ability and initiative to do the work. Not everyone is ready for a college education, or able to engage in the rigorous critical thinking required. That's not popular with the salespeople, who want to sell college to everyone."
The 'salespeople' here are our government, trying to sell hope that even though they encourage industry to move offshore, there is a way for everyone to live happy fruitful lives. Education was that way. And it's necessary now; after all, to get a decent white-collar job now you need 'a degree'. It doesn't have to be related to your job. Jobs available (if you don't have a degree) will ensure that you live in poverty and die early.
"High school is now four years of day care because those teachers figure the kids will really learn to spell in college."
No. High school is now daycare because both parents now have to work to survive and NEED DAY CARE. Teachers are now expected to raise kids, but aren't allowed to punish them. Parents freak when 'little johnny' fails, and rather than take responsibility, they blame the teachers for their kids lack of effort - even though teachers have little or no power to make the kids do ANYTHING.
"When they cheapen those, too, we're going to have to cut out the middleman and bribe our way into careers." Yes. Only the upper classes will be able to do this too. Oligarchy becomes permanent and the American Dream dies. A permanent, desperate underclass that will work like slaves for almost nothing will be available, and America will finally become 'competitive' with the third world. By becoming a third-world nation.
Nah supply and demand is broken. When you need a degree to get a job, and you need a job to live, then the demand side skyrockets.
"With that kind of thinking, someone else needs to stop these kinds of people. They wont stop themselves. She should never been able to get those loans in the first place"
Ah. So that she would most likely not have any chance to rise above the poverty line. Check. That'll fix the economy! When there is no discretionary pay left after food and shelter, it doesn't matter how cheap things get when imported from other economies after all - the market for anything is essentially zero.
Get rid of the social stigma attached to being non-degreed, get rid of the bogus requirement to have a degree, any degree, in order to 'succeed' (heh - and THAT's defining success as 'marginally above the poverty line and insured so that medical expenses are less likely to bankrupt you'), and we'll talk.
(don't know what they are saying, paywalls suck and leading me to one is irritating)...to get off this rock - but I don't see us leaving the Solar system until long after we've spread out through the solar system itself - and that's going to be challenge enough for our species. The energy costs are prohibitive for any kind of 'commuting' from any planetary gravity well as it is, so we'll have to be so adept at space travel that we don't need to a) use any raw materials coming from planets and b) we'll have to have a population that is born, lives, and reproduces outside of orbit. It would help if we make advances towards true longevity, too. Any interstellar trips are going to take a LONG time - and the investment in such a thing can't be huge; it's the problem with planetary gravity wells writ large and we're not going to be sending anything but information back and forth from our interplanetary 'conquests'.
I just don't see that happening in 100 years, as much as I'd like to. Maybe 1000, if we can keep civilization going that long. It's a huge problem, the energy costs are orders of magnitude higher than getting off of the Earth (and we have enough trouble with that) and the logistics are worse - where do we get volatiles along the way? How do we survive such a trip anyway? We can't even choose rational destinations at this point in our technology!
Having said that, I'd like to believe that we'll get there. Eventually.
Responding to the wrong post, obviously, as I was very clearly talking about starting points, and the previous poster's POV that solutions shouldn't be vetted by scientists, and must be cheap.
"No cheap fixes like pumping sulphur dioxide into the upper atmosphere"
Wow, starting out with terraforming our own planet, as opposed to starting out by refraining from the behavior that caused the problem in the first place.
And hey, why bother vetting solutions with those who actually, you know, studied the problem?
What could possibly go wrong?
So "No cheap fixes"?
YES - it's YOUR fault for being a greedy son of a bitch.
And if the corporation lovers succeed in giving unlimited power to the business because of some misguided belief that the market self-regulates, who wins then? Corporations have already demonstrated that they care not one whit about the Constitution, and less about their workers. I'm not sure how making them even more powerful is going to change that for the better, although I'm sure in your beneficent wisdom you know exactly how perfect everything can be if only we all do it your way. You and Ron Paul.
There. FTFY.
Didn't like it? Good. Moderation, not extremism and not fundamentalism, is where the answer that best suits the nation, it's people and it's future, lies. If not, the cycle will simply begin again as you take the nation back to a place where workers have no protection from corporate abuse, children starve (only this time in ignorance, since the right hates education so) and the market will have to again adjust though voting and regulation until we get back to this point with no ground gained. If we survive this time around, that is.
You're one of those "We see something isn't working, so we must do the same broken things harder and faster, all the while mocking people that disagree with my stupidity" people, aren't you?
Hmmm. Runoff election. Interesting rationalization *grin*. Might be enough to overcome my distaste...
As for the Condorcet methods, well, I hadn't really heard of them until now (not exactly poli-sci, here) and it made a very interesting read. Something that complex would be a difficult 'sell' in the US - you'd probably have to get sports rankings done that way for a few years first to get the voters used to it...
Yup. Biden would have been reason enough to vote for someone other than Obama. Problem is, the alternative was - and if we were presented the same choice today - still is FAR worse - I'd rather not have the Right 'finish the job' - looting and destroying the economy of the West, while converting us into a theocratic state, thankyouverymuch.
Total, complete, and absolute agreement. And I yes, registering as a Democrat might be a really good idea! Seems a little shady to me though, as I do NOT like associating with either party.
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Heheh. I got mine right out of high school, programming (Cobol. ugh.) I am fully aware of how lucky I am though. That is NOT the norm, and can never be something that high-school students can expect - or even work for. Chances are, that without a degree, you are hosed at the start, IMO. And that's not right. ESPECIALLY as degrees held rarely reflect more than vaguely on the position held. Over the years I've noticed how rare it is to get a career in the field you studied for.
You DID make shit up, you little smug little prick. You made up the "And to live a life of luxury and parties while you were there? Wow. Dumb parents" and "Also, who the hell told you to major in English Literature". You posted crap you completely made up to justify you being an asshole, and to make yourself feel good.
And you aren't done making shit up yet, are you?
"And there are lots of jobs out there, they're just jobs that you apparently think you are above"
Above? Hahaha! Never said I needed one, that I was looking, or even implied I had outstanding loans, did I? It is a FACT that there are more job seekers than available jobs - or did you not get the memo? It ain't because anyone is 'above' them - its because they DON'T EXIST. And for the record, I haven't been in school for 30 years, and I did everything from shovelling shit, to unskilled construction (summer jobs), arcade attendant (a real thrill), to washing dishes and running a register when I WAS in school - you are COMPLETELY off base. But that's OK. I'm sure you don't understand that people can hold opinions that aren't entirely self-serving, and that must be why you think I must be lamenting student loans and not having a job that can pay them off.
You're just making shit up to justify your 'position'.
But I think I get it - you must live in the libertarian fantasy-land where you can always get a job, (translation: the job market is somehow infinite), so you can justify all your sophomoric ideologies.
In the 80s. 30 years ago.
I got my start in IT in '79. Out of High School. It was _NOT_ as screwed up than as it is now, and it was rare then.
What, 1% could pull off a career like that - and only by starting then?
YES! But something needs to be done about the very real 'employment stigma' of not having a degree.
You are an idiot. Out of touch, too.
"You were told to go to college on debt?"
Not everybody can afford to pay out of pocket, and colleges that can be paid for by (non-existent, have you heard? Job seekers outnumber jobs) part-time work are as extinct as the dodo. Despite that, college is necessary to find jobs above the poverty line.
"And to live a life of luxury and parties while you were there? Wow. Dumb parents"
Uh huh. Not only an idiot, a mean-spirited idiot.
"In fact they pretty much insisted that everyone have a job while they went to school."
Uh huh. And these mythical jobs are where? You must be a right winger, assuming the job market is always infinite, that there are always available jobs.
"Also, who the hell told you to major in English Literature?"
Yup, idiotic right-wing asshole, making shit up in order to spread a little unjustified unhappiness around. But I'll bet that makes YOU feel great, doesn't it?
Sorry. The virgins were all used up by the last administration.
Yah because so many careers that don't involve fries are available to non-degreed kids.
This is almost true. There are some problems with your post, though.
"Educators will tell you that perhaps college should be reserved for those with the ability and initiative to do the work. Not everyone is ready for a college education, or able to engage in the rigorous critical thinking required. That's not popular with the salespeople, who want to sell college to everyone."
The 'salespeople' here are our government, trying to sell hope that even though they encourage industry to move offshore, there is a way for everyone to live happy fruitful lives. Education was that way. And it's necessary now; after all, to get a decent white-collar job now you need 'a degree'. It doesn't have to be related to your job. Jobs available (if you don't have a degree) will ensure that you live in poverty and die early.
"High school is now four years of day care because those teachers figure the kids will really learn to spell in college."
No. High school is now daycare because both parents now have to work to survive and NEED DAY CARE. Teachers are now expected to raise kids, but aren't allowed to punish them. Parents freak when 'little johnny' fails, and rather than take responsibility, they blame the teachers for their kids lack of effort - even though teachers have little or no power to make the kids do ANYTHING.
"When they cheapen those, too, we're going to have to cut out the middleman and bribe our way into careers."
Yes. Only the upper classes will be able to do this too. Oligarchy becomes permanent and the American Dream dies. A permanent, desperate underclass that will work like slaves for almost nothing will be available, and America will finally become 'competitive' with the third world. By becoming a third-world nation.
No.
The problem is that there aren't jobs ANYWHERE. The US was sold on education and white-collar jobs being the way forward in the 'globalized economy'.
It was a lie, of course. As usual.
Idiot. You can't get a job anywhere, most likely. Job seekers outnumber jobs. And without a degree at all? Forget it.
Add to that the requirement for a degree usually has little to do with the job you get - and your little snide aside just makes you look like crap.
Bring back jobs with a future that doesn't include eating dogfood to stay alive that don't require 'a degree', and you might have a point,
Until then? Maybe you should shut up and pay attention to what's actually happening out there rather than US mythology.
Oh. You aren't funny or clever, either.
Nah supply and demand is broken. When you need a degree to get a job, and you need a job to live, then the demand side skyrockets.
"With that kind of thinking, someone else needs to stop these kinds of people. They wont stop themselves. She should never been able to get those loans in the first place"
Ah. So that she would most likely not have any chance to rise above the poverty line. Check. That'll fix the economy! When there is no discretionary pay left after food and shelter, it doesn't matter how cheap things get when imported from other economies after all - the market for anything is essentially zero.
Get rid of the social stigma attached to being non-degreed, get rid of the bogus requirement to have a degree, any degree, in order to 'succeed' (heh - and THAT's defining success as 'marginally above the poverty line and insured so that medical expenses are less likely to bankrupt you'), and we'll talk.
Until then this will continue.
No, it's not possible. Where ARE these mythical 'jobs' you speak of? Last I heard, job seekers outnumber the jobs available.
have blown by Android and iPhone, right?
If he's right (BIG "if") though, I have one thing to say to him:
"Welcome to OS/2-land, BITCH."
(don't know what they are saying, paywalls suck and leading me to one is irritating) ...to get off this rock - but I don't see us leaving the Solar system until long after we've spread out through the solar system itself - and that's going to be challenge enough for our species. The energy costs are prohibitive for any kind of 'commuting' from any planetary gravity well as it is, so we'll have to be so adept at space travel that we don't need to a) use any raw materials coming from planets and b) we'll have to have a population that is born, lives, and reproduces outside of orbit. It would help if we make advances towards true longevity, too. Any interstellar trips are going to take a LONG time - and the investment in such a thing can't be huge; it's the problem with planetary gravity wells writ large and we're not going to be sending anything but information back and forth from our interplanetary 'conquests'.
I just don't see that happening in 100 years, as much as I'd like to. Maybe 1000, if we can keep civilization going that long. It's a huge problem, the energy costs are orders of magnitude higher than getting off of the Earth (and we have enough trouble with that) and the logistics are worse - where do we get volatiles along the way? How do we survive such a trip anyway? We can't even choose rational destinations at this point in our technology!
Having said that, I'd like to believe that we'll get there. Eventually.
Responding to the wrong post, obviously, as I was very clearly talking about starting points, and the previous poster's POV that solutions shouldn't be vetted by scientists, and must be cheap.
"No cheap fixes like pumping sulphur dioxide into the upper atmosphere"
Wow, starting out with terraforming our own planet, as opposed to starting out by refraining from the behavior that caused the problem in the first place.
And hey, why bother vetting solutions with those who actually, you know, studied the problem?
What could possibly go wrong?
So "No cheap fixes"?
YES - it's YOUR fault for being a greedy son of a bitch.
And if the corporation lovers succeed in giving unlimited power to the business because of some misguided belief that the market self-regulates, who wins then? Corporations have already demonstrated that they care not one whit about the Constitution, and less about their workers. I'm not sure how making them even more powerful is going to change that for the better, although I'm sure in your beneficent wisdom you know exactly how perfect everything can be if only we all do it your way. You and Ron Paul.
There. FTFY.
Didn't like it? Good. Moderation, not extremism and not fundamentalism, is where the answer that best suits the nation, it's people and it's future, lies. If not, the cycle will simply begin again as you take the nation back to a place where workers have no protection from corporate abuse, children starve (only this time in ignorance, since the right hates education so) and the market will have to again adjust though voting and regulation until we get back to this point with no ground gained. If we survive this time around, that is.
Suuuure - religious fundie muslims are going to nuke the holy land.
You DO know it's holy to them, too, right?
You're one of those "We see something isn't working, so we must do the same broken things harder and faster, all the while mocking people that disagree with my stupidity" people, aren't you?
Hmmm. Runoff election. Interesting rationalization *grin*. Might be enough to overcome my distaste...
As for the Condorcet methods, well, I hadn't really heard of them until now (not exactly poli-sci, here) and it made a very interesting read. Something that complex would be a difficult 'sell' in the US - you'd probably have to get sports rankings done that way for a few years first to get the voters used to it...
Yup. Biden would have been reason enough to vote for someone other than Obama. Problem is, the alternative was - and if we were presented the same choice today - still is FAR worse - I'd rather not have the Right 'finish the job' - looting and destroying the economy of the West, while converting us into a theocratic state, thankyouverymuch.
That's right, you are for changeless hopelessness, forever and ever, world without end, eh 'Archangel'?
Yeah but who will know?
Nah - it's because I'm NOT a Democrat (or Republican) and representing myself as one would just make me feel... greasy.
Total, complete, and absolute agreement. And I yes, registering as a Democrat might be a really good idea! Seems a little shady to me though, as I do NOT like associating with either party.