I wish I had done things in this order.
1. a shell like ksh
2. c
3. Then Perl..
I missed a great deal I had to go back to with not learning the first two to start with.
What really pisses me off is that you were modded BELOW this obvious troll.
And for the record OOP in Perl is NOT bolted on, it is just that Perl is so damn flexable that you can do OOP in man ways. This is a VAST difference.. You can get into the meat of OOP with Perl and not have to depend on what someone's idea of OOP is.
Moron. This is just what the powerful want, a large group of stupid consumers who will not question. The Marxism = Communism thing is old and wrong. A post from a while back made a great point, every man for himself is just another way of saying lets just be animals. There have to be some considerable limits to power and that certainly includes how badly a company can treat its employees. That is NOT a self limiting thing as factory work moves from poor country to poor country. China's elite may be booming, but the people working in their factories are living in the 20's.
So once again, MORON. You make things worst for all of us by supporting the people who step on you every day.
Eric
Ahh so they join the ranks of FreeBSD do they? Why do so many of you not understand that Sun is one of the few companies that actually cares about quality?? And you *want* them to die?? I just don't get it..
I think this is the first totaly non emotional post I have seen so far. There is a basic phil issue that a lot of people don't get. My total non techie manager does things like stack up "features" and uses that to decide if one app is better than another. I would think the slashdot crowd would have more people who would concider things a little beyond that. What I see going on with mysql vs whatever is just going back to the question of where do you separate the database from the application?
I have worked with DB/2 on AS/400, MS SQL, mysql, and Postgres, with a few minor fiddlings with things like Berkely DB and Innobase.
In the case of DB/2 and friends you can end up with what is bascily a whole module/sub almost an application in one query, and of course you can also have that with a given stored procedure. To my way of thinking this can be a blessing and a curse, it is a blessing certainly because you don't have to do nearly as much work in the app to do a report, but does that logic not belong in your app anyway? In some cases it may. I also see people who have been used to doing things with these very richly featured DBs that then tend to over complicate a great number of the queries that they do. A simple join group by with a rollup becomes something much more complex.
Anyway, I tend to look both ways at these things. It is just stupid to cut down mysql because of its users. Just as stupid as cutting down PHP users because some of them are not great programmers. In fact it was really a culture that grew out of people who were not great programmers. Now there is so much momentum behind it that many much higher end people are also using PHP.
Postgres gets a great deal of respect from me. But in a real world situation you have to concider a great deal more than feature lists. You have to think about culture, the company behind the product(if there is one) the size of the comunity, how using that product may or may not help the reputation of your business. Certianly Oracle has benifited a LOT from that last one. "We use Oracle", is flashed like a badge of honor.
Anyway, enough of this sensable crap. I am fucking amazed at some of the moderation that has happened here on this topic. Lots of total flamebait posts getting modded up. Shame on you people!
Ok, lets just compare, cost of book vs cost of sitting in a university classroom.. hmmmm. I wonder why I am in class again?? Maybe they should just write books and tests?
Funny, I always learned from the book because the professors didn't really give a damn and certainly didn't have time to explain something to more than a very few people. So yes, I admire the books.. They have always been my greatest teachers..
The main point is, that many very large service providers choose to do their shared/virtual hosting on FreeBSD. hmmm, wonder why?? Maybe those very high end network engineers and admins know something..:)
I know this is not new to a lot of people judgeing by the number of hits I get when searching for solutions. IE's submit button doesn't lock, as many times as you click it, is as many times as it breaks its former connection and makes a new one.
I can't believe even MS would do something that stupid!!! Since I learned about forms on Netscape, it never occured to me that this problem could exist until I saw it for myself.
I couldn't care less about DHTML or CSS "compliance" when IE can't even act like a simple web client correctly!!
You know this is very simple, really. Use FreeBSD. Call it off topic if you want. If you want to build from the bottom up, but not take days to do it like with Gentoo (yeah I am sure some people have convinced themselves that is easy) then use FreeBSD. I am horrified by the piles of crap in most distros today, and while I have nothing at all againsed Linux itself, it is just not worth dealing with all the mistakes others have made. I would rather start from a good solid base, working ssh and local mail client and go from there. WHY IN THE HELL DO I NEED KDE AND KNOME INSTALLED BY DEFAULT when I say I want a GUI? BLOAT is everywhere in Linux now, the danger is that Linux will end up just like Windows only worse because there is no high god to organized it.
Because everyone can understand the other guy's example and your code only makes you a smart ass. also known as the guy to fire because he things he is too hot.
Come on people, do we really need to mod up posts of people who say things like, "Technology is the enabling mechanism" Yeah, it is for your wife's dildo too, what meaning do you get from that?
Re:Can we use languages not by lunatics?
on
Perl 5.8.1 Released
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
This whole list of posts so far is really depressing. At times Slashdot is a great source of information, at times it is just worthless. It all depends on the people posting the comments. Moderators, I know you only have what you are given to work with, but 90% of theses posts are totaly off topic. Larry Wall and the shit in his pants have nothing to do with a new release of Perl. A release that does some pretty damn cool things BTW like making it possible to switch on and off the new signel behaviour with an ENV var.
If anyone wants to know where Perl is going in the future and why it is a damn good lang to stick with, read the O`Reilly book "Perl 6 Essentials" I think a lot of programmers, even some pretty experenced ones confuse syntax that they don't like with "bad" but as has been quoted over and over Perl is about having fun with programming, and being able to make your master work, or being able to dig your own grave. I very well know there are good and bad ways to program in any lang. Even PHP which I tend to dislike, I have to admit most of the reason is because of the nightmare applications that chew on their own tails to such a degree they are next to impossible to figure out. But I know it is possible to do better work in PHP than that. Perl started out in exactly that way with the oh so lovely Matt's script archive Perl 4 type of scripting. But back then it really was *just* a scripting lang. Now it is much more developed. A simple rule of thought that many of you guys need to consider from Aristotle that I here paraphrase; If a man is sitting on a chair and you maintain he is sitting, you are correct. If he gets up, but you still maintain he is sitting, you are incorrect. Sounds like duh huh? But it is the cleanest way I have every heard expressed the idea that if you base your opinons on information that is outdated, then your opinons can be just plain wrong.
True OOP support must mean that OOP doesn't include variable scope. If your variables from one PHP include can clobber another's, then you sure as hell don't have OOP in ANY form.
When taken as Developer = programmer, then HTTP is REQUIRED. If a guy doesn't know that a cookie is a header, then he sure as hell should not get a job as a "Web Developer"
You know this is just amazing to me that this is even considered a bad issue. That it was even posted on Slashdot I mean, if you are already admin chances are you have shutdown priv so what is the difference?? Seems to me mysql caught this way early and so that it will never cause a real problem.
It looks to me like this report is just an attempt to gain favour with the dimly aware in the media. There is NO science involed with this report. That means, there is no control, there is not a complete look at factors that affect errors outside of a very small specific and not very troublsome set.
New is not the issue. The issue is how many jobs are out there for asp,.Net MSsql vs opensource jobs? I VERY rarely see a job in our market(BC Vancouver) for even the most popular of opensource coding, PHP. So how in the hell is open source going to win like that? Even if it is true that many of these companies that are publicly MS are using Linux and BSD in the background, how is that going to help the movement progress?
Slashdot Mirror
I wish I had done things in this order. 1. a shell like ksh 2. c 3. Then Perl.. I missed a great deal I had to go back to with not learning the first two to start with.
What really pisses me off is that you were modded BELOW this obvious troll.
And for the record OOP in Perl is NOT bolted on, it is just that Perl is so damn flexable that you can do OOP in man ways. This is a VAST difference.. You can get into the meat of OOP with Perl and not have to depend on what someone's idea of OOP is.
Thanks so much for showing your true self in this reply. My case is made.
Moron. This is just what the powerful want, a large group of stupid consumers who will not question. The Marxism = Communism thing is old and wrong. A post from a while back made a great point, every man for himself is just another way of saying lets just be animals. There have to be some considerable limits to power and that certainly includes how badly a company can treat its employees. That is NOT a self limiting thing as factory work moves from poor country to poor country. China's elite may be booming, but the people working in their factories are living in the 20's. So once again, MORON. You make things worst for all of us by supporting the people who step on you every day. Eric
Why don't you just crawl back into your weenie box. Yeah, that is what my boss asks for consistently in a desktop OS, more Kernels!
I stopped reading here: "Yes mandrake is easy to use, far easier to use in fact then windows thanks to its very nice installer" 2 + 2 = an egg?
Ahh so they join the ranks of FreeBSD do they? Why do so many of you not understand that Sun is one of the few companies that actually cares about quality?? And you *want* them to die?? I just don't get it..
I think this is the first totaly non emotional post I have seen so far. There is a basic phil issue that a lot of people don't get. My total non techie manager does things like stack up "features" and uses that to decide if one app is better than another. I would think the slashdot crowd would have more people who would concider things a little beyond that. What I see going on with mysql vs whatever is just going back to the question of where do you separate the database from the application?
I have worked with DB/2 on AS/400, MS SQL, mysql, and Postgres, with a few minor fiddlings with things like Berkely DB and Innobase.
In the case of DB/2 and friends you can end up with what is bascily a whole module/sub almost an application in one query, and of course you can also have that with a given stored procedure. To my way of thinking this can be a blessing and a curse, it is a blessing certainly because you don't have to do nearly as much work in the app to do a report, but does that logic not belong in your app anyway? In some cases it may. I also see people who have been used to doing things with these very richly featured DBs that then tend to over complicate a great number of the queries that they do. A simple join group by with a rollup becomes something much more complex.
Anyway, I tend to look both ways at these things. It is just stupid to cut down mysql because of its users. Just as stupid as cutting down PHP users because some of them are not great programmers. In fact it was really a culture that grew out of people who were not great programmers. Now there is so much momentum behind it that many much higher end people are also using PHP.
Postgres gets a great deal of respect from me. But in a real world situation you have to concider a great deal more than feature lists. You have to think about culture, the company behind the product(if there is one) the size of the comunity, how using that product may or may not help the reputation of your business. Certianly Oracle has benifited a LOT from that last one. "We use Oracle", is flashed like a badge of honor.
Anyway, enough of this sensable crap. I am fucking amazed at some of the moderation that has happened here on this topic. Lots of total flamebait posts getting modded up. Shame on you people!
Eric
Ok, lets just compare, cost of book vs cost of sitting in a university classroom.. hmmmm. I wonder why I am in class again?? Maybe they should just write books and tests?
Funny, I always learned from the book because the professors didn't really give a damn and certainly didn't have time to explain something to more than a very few people. So yes, I admire the books.. They have always been my greatest teachers..
The main point is, that many very large service providers choose to do their shared/virtual hosting on FreeBSD. hmmm, wonder why?? Maybe those very high end network engineers and admins know something.. :)
I know this is not new to a lot of people judgeing by the number of hits I get when searching for solutions. IE's submit button doesn't lock, as many times as you click it, is as many times as it breaks its former connection and makes a new one.
I can't believe even MS would do something that stupid!!! Since I learned about forms on Netscape, it never occured to me that this problem could exist until I saw it for myself.
I couldn't care less about DHTML or CSS "compliance" when IE can't even act like a simple web client correctly!!
Eric
You know this is very simple, really. Use FreeBSD. Call it off topic if you want. If you want to build from the bottom up, but not take days to do it like with Gentoo (yeah I am sure some people have convinced themselves that is easy) then use FreeBSD.
I am horrified by the piles of crap in most distros today, and while I have nothing at all againsed Linux itself, it is just not worth dealing with all the mistakes others have made. I would rather start from a good solid base, working ssh and local mail client and go from there. WHY IN THE HELL DO I NEED KDE AND KNOME INSTALLED BY DEFAULT when I say I want a GUI? BLOAT is everywhere in Linux now, the danger is that Linux will end up just like Windows only worse because there is no high god to organized it.
Thanks.
Then it is already too late for you, its getting dark... dark....
Because everyone can understand the other guy's example and your code only makes you a smart ass. also known as the guy to fire because he things he is too hot.
Come on people, do we really need to mod up posts of people who say things like, "Technology is the enabling mechanism" Yeah, it is for your wife's dildo too, what meaning do you get from that?
This whole list of posts so far is really depressing. At times Slashdot is a great source of information, at times it is just worthless. It all depends on the people posting the comments. Moderators, I know you only have what you are given to work with, but 90% of theses posts are totaly off topic. Larry Wall and the shit in his pants have nothing to do with a new release of Perl. A release that does some pretty damn cool things BTW like making it possible to switch on and off the new signel behaviour with an ENV var.
If anyone wants to know where Perl is going in the future and why it is a damn good lang to stick with, read the O`Reilly book "Perl 6 Essentials" I think a lot of programmers, even some pretty experenced ones confuse syntax that they don't like with "bad" but as has been quoted over and over Perl is about having fun with programming, and being able to make your master work, or being able to dig your own grave. I very well know there are good and bad ways to program in any lang. Even PHP which I tend to dislike, I have to admit most of the reason is because of the nightmare applications that chew on their own tails to such a degree they are next to impossible to figure out. But I know it is possible to do better work in PHP than that. Perl started out in exactly that way with the oh so lovely Matt's script archive Perl 4 type of scripting. But back then it really was *just* a scripting lang. Now it is much more developed. A simple rule of thought that many of you guys need to consider from Aristotle that I here paraphrase; If a man is sitting on a chair and you maintain he is sitting, you are correct. If he gets up, but you still maintain he is sitting, you are incorrect. Sounds like duh huh? But it is the cleanest way I have every heard expressed the idea that if you base your opinons on information that is outdated, then your opinons can be just plain wrong.
Thanks,
Eric
True OOP support must mean that OOP doesn't include variable scope. If your variables from one PHP include can clobber another's, then you sure as hell don't have OOP in ANY form.
Eric
You can get your ass dos attacked, or you could get a dos attack your DNS servers and no one has to log in. Your logic is very weak.
When taken as Developer = programmer, then HTTP is REQUIRED. If a guy doesn't know that a cookie is a header, then he sure as hell should not get a job as a "Web Developer"
Eric
Hi,
You know this is just amazing to me that this is even considered a bad issue. That it was even posted on Slashdot I mean, if you are already admin chances are you have shutdown priv so what is the difference?? Seems to me mysql caught this way early and so that it will never cause a real problem.
Eric
Can you say OS/400? Not even remotely close with BeOS.
It looks to me like this report is just an attempt to gain favour with the dimly aware in the media. There is NO science involed with this report. That means, there is no control, there is not a complete look at factors that affect errors outside of a very small specific and not very troublsome set.
New is not the issue. The issue is how many jobs are out there for asp, .Net MSsql vs opensource jobs? I VERY rarely see a job in our market(BC Vancouver) for even the most popular of opensource coding, PHP. So how in the hell is open source going to win like that? Even if it is true that many of these companies that are publicly MS are using Linux and BSD in the background, how is that going to help the movement progress?
Eric
WHY did you guys not mod up this excellent answer???