"If you can't provide an example, then you're merely blowing smoke."
You don't understand the example I gave you because you firmly believe you always act in accordance with your principles. It's kinda pointless coming up with examples if all your going to do is simply deny the obvious.
Here I will spell it out again...
1. You as a bank manager would not give someone with a record a job. (result = no job)
2. You as a prospective bank employee with a record would (officially) hide your record from the bank manager. (result = job)
See the contradiction? Your belief on whether a person with a record should be offered the job depends on what role you are playing. The belief system that is at play there is "self interest" which contradicts and overrules the "golden rule" with varying degrees of consitency.
Human behaviour is chock full of such inconsistencies, and we invariably judge ourselves and the people in our own social circle much less harshly than those outside. Our egos hide our own subtle fuckery from us and it's a good thing because without an ego we wouldn't be able to decide wether to get out of bed or not.
BTW: I don't think of this naval-gazing banter as having a debate, so you've already won I guess. Try reading the monkeysphere link I gave you (2 pages), even if you don't see the relevance, it's vey humurous, nothing like the Hitchens rant.
The judge isn't hiring you the bank is. You and the judge are colluding to hide something that your own beliefs say makes you ineligible for the position. That my friend is a double standard otherwise known as hypocricy, but don't fret about it, we're all hyopocrites in one way or another.
"I believe people can certainly have consistent beliefs, and I'm quite certain I'm one of them."
"If I ran a bank, and a new applicant had an unsealed juvenile record containing thefts, I don't think I'd hire that person. It's simple prudence. If the applicant can't be bothered to have his or her juvenile record expunged, then they can't be very serious about fixing up their life, can they?"
So it's ok to hide your past in order to trick someone with your attitude into hiring you? I don't admire double standards and hypocracy, I think I'll hire the guy who's life is an open book.
"The deeds of any person are based on that person's true beliefs"
If "do unto others" is part of your true beliefs then the double standard outlined above would be an action against that belief. It's not that you are deliberately (or even consiously) acting contrary to your belief, it's just that you don't have an unchanging and internally consistent set of beliefs, no human does.
Ah stupid me, at first I thought I recalled it was proven but when I checked my recollection I misread the reference. It's been a couple of decades since I last set foot in a maths class.
Why do you need a judge to expunge your record if you think a reasonable person would not hold your youthfull misdemeanours against you? Or are you saying that people who do hold such things against you are acting reasonably and thus you would act the same way?
"Judge us by our beliefs"
No I judge by deeds, christians move the belief goal posts with the same old....oh that's not exactly what our sect belives we have a better interpretation....there are literally tens of thousands of other sects based around the bible alone, each with it's own interpretation. You and I don't believe any of them. The difference between us is that I don't believe your sect.
You cannot get forgiveness from a judge, only a victim can forgive. Your post is a reasonable description of christian scapegoating (watch the links previously provided). As a christian you are taught to pile your sins (that the church knows your hiding) on Jesus and ask for forgiveness. Now since Jesus is just a phycological model of a judge in your head of course he will forgive you, or not, depending on your level of masochisim.
The Russian orthodox church split on the question of Stalin with one half moving to the Ukraine and the other staying loyal to Stalin. Stalin wasn't anti-religion, he wanted the church to be his "bitch". He used the ready made gullible audience to portray himself as god like by (for example) replacing the picture of Jesus/Mary above the Moscovian family mantlepiece with his own portrait (and his church's blessing). Stalin was a master propogandist, so much so that even the people in death camps thought that Stalin would one day "find out" what was happening to them and come to their rescue. Of course the next logical step for Stalin (had the 20th century not broken his isolation) would be to have promoted himself to a full god (eg: Hirohito).
Mao and Pol Pot were not half as smart and were of the mind that you have to destroy society to rebuild it, no amount of propoganda can make a starving population ignore their hunger. What these three leaders have in common has nothing to do with atheisim, their anti-religious acts are motivated by their zero tolerance for any form of authority not granted by them (re: Oliver Cromwell). In an uneducted nation, the priest is the obvious authority that any aspiring despot needs to assimilate, neuter, or crush. (see Monks in Burma for a modern example).
"The greatest death tolls in the history of the world were committed in the name of anti-religion"
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. - Diderot. Wake me up when a Spinozian uses his ideology to justify his genocide.
The new testament introduced the concept of eternal torture in hell. Christianity is neither moral nor ethical (unless you cherry pick stuff like the golden rule).
The BB is still happening, the "expansion" of the observable universe (small 'u') is just another way of saying space is still exploding into existance, in otherwords the universe IS the big bang. The cosmic microwave background (CMB) is a shell of expanding "light" that came from very early in the long bang. The CMB encloses our universe.
It's claimed that the CMB shell is a universal frame of reference until recently it had been assumed no such universal frame of reference existed, however it's existance does not violate general releativity as some might claim. It's also claimed the geometry of the observable universe is very close to flat (ie: euclidian). Iff those two claims are true then the BB's blue touch paper (geometric center of the universe) is located at the geometric centere of the CMB light shell. However given general relativity you probably need a "god's eye" view of the universe to find it.
"you can't even put together a non-contradictory statement about what they actually do."
The GP's statements are not contradictory, what you are seeing is a problem with your comprehension skills. But your not alone, most people from the extremes of politics have a hard time understanding the world because of similarly poor comprehension skills.
After that rant I can only conclude you are either not old enough to remeber "the good old days", or you missed out on the fun part of puberty.
People always think the current crop of kids behave worse than they did, it's a common mistake called nostalgia and otherwise intelligent people have been doing it for millenia...
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." - Socrates.
I wasn't trying to imply a nuclear disaster was harmless but I can see how it could be interpreted that way but I was speaking to extreme averssion wildlife has to the top predator on the planet. The DMZ in Korea also has a lot of wildlife due to the lack of humans. The critters in Korea don't have wierd mutations but they do spend a lot of time clearing landmines.
"IF there is to be a monopoly, I want the monopoly.....Mindless twits."
Yes. Here in Oz we have a monoploly on our considerable mineral wealth, why should I care about a mindless twit from the US/UK/China who thinks they should be an exclusive buyer? The US, UK or China could crush our military like a grape, it's in our strategic and economic interest to supply all of them in the hope that none of them become the sole super powerfull customer.- "Think about it."
Slashdot Mirror
Nobody wants to see a space truck until they need a delivery.
"If you can't provide an example, then you're merely blowing smoke."
You don't understand the example I gave you because you firmly believe you always act in accordance with your principles. It's kinda pointless coming up with examples if all your going to do is simply deny the obvious.
Here I will spell it out again...
1. You as a bank manager would not give someone with a record a job. (result = no job)
2. You as a prospective bank employee with a record would (officially) hide your record from the bank manager. (result = job)
See the contradiction? Your belief on whether a person with a record should be offered the job depends on what role you are playing. The belief system that is at play there is "self interest" which contradicts and overrules the "golden rule" with varying degrees of consitency.
Human behaviour is chock full of such inconsistencies, and we invariably judge ourselves and the people in our own social circle much less harshly than those outside. Our egos hide our own subtle fuckery from us and it's a good thing because without an ego we wouldn't be able to decide wether to get out of bed or not.
BTW: I don't think of this naval-gazing banter as having a debate, so you've already won I guess. Try reading the monkeysphere link I gave you (2 pages), even if you don't see the relevance, it's vey humurous, nothing like the Hitchens rant.
Yes, the headline should read - Google rips off Dick.
The judge isn't hiring you the bank is. You and the judge are colluding to hide something that your own beliefs say makes you ineligible for the position. That my friend is a double standard otherwise known as hypocricy, but don't fret about it, we're all hyopocrites in one way or another.
"I believe people can certainly have consistent beliefs, and I'm quite certain I'm one of them."
Yes, that's a hallmark of the religious mindset.
"but a fucking video can go for hours"
20 minutes tops without viagra.
"If I ran a bank, and a new applicant had an unsealed juvenile record containing thefts, I don't think I'd hire that person. It's simple prudence. If the applicant can't be bothered to have his or her juvenile record expunged, then they can't be very serious about fixing up their life, can they?"
So it's ok to hide your past in order to trick someone with your attitude into hiring you? I don't admire double standards and hypocracy, I think I'll hire the guy who's life is an open book.
"The deeds of any person are based on that person's true beliefs"
If "do unto others" is part of your true beliefs then the double standard outlined above would be an action against that belief. It's not that you are deliberately (or even consiously) acting contrary to your belief, it's just that you don't have an unchanging and internally consistent set of beliefs, no human does.
Ah stupid me, at first I thought I recalled it was proven but when I checked my recollection I misread the reference. It's been a couple of decades since I last set foot in a maths class.
"Design always implies a designer, so evolutionary design is always a religious reference."
To you maybe, but to everyone else not so much.
Most of those topics come under the heading of operations research, and yes the TSP is thought to be an NP-Hard" problem but nobody has proven it.
Why do you need a judge to expunge your record if you think a reasonable person would not hold your youthfull misdemeanours against you? Or are you saying that people who do hold such things against you are acting reasonably and thus you would act the same way?
"Judge us by our beliefs"
No I judge by deeds, christians move the belief goal posts with the same old....oh that's not exactly what our sect belives we have a better interpretation....there are literally tens of thousands of other sects based around the bible alone, each with it's own interpretation. You and I don't believe any of them. The difference between us is that I don't believe your sect.
You cannot get forgiveness from a judge, only a victim can forgive. Your post is a reasonable description of christian scapegoating (watch the links previously provided). As a christian you are taught to pile your sins (that the church knows your hiding) on Jesus and ask for forgiveness. Now since Jesus is just a phycological model of a judge in your head of course he will forgive you, or not, depending on your level of masochisim.
Out of the fire and into the frying pan, eh?
The Russian orthodox church split on the question of Stalin with one half moving to the Ukraine and the other staying loyal to Stalin. Stalin wasn't anti-religion, he wanted the church to be his "bitch". He used the ready made gullible audience to portray himself as god like by (for example) replacing the picture of Jesus/Mary above the Moscovian family mantlepiece with his own portrait (and his church's blessing). Stalin was a master propogandist, so much so that even the people in death camps thought that Stalin would one day "find out" what was happening to them and come to their rescue. Of course the next logical step for Stalin (had the 20th century not broken his isolation) would be to have promoted himself to a full god (eg: Hirohito).
Mao and Pol Pot were not half as smart and were of the mind that you have to destroy society to rebuild it, no amount of propoganda can make a starving population ignore their hunger. What these three leaders have in common has nothing to do with atheisim, their anti-religious acts are motivated by their zero tolerance for any form of authority not granted by them (re: Oliver Cromwell). In an uneducted nation, the priest is the obvious authority that any aspiring despot needs to assimilate, neuter, or crush. (see Monks in Burma for a modern example).
"The greatest death tolls in the history of the world were committed in the name of anti-religion"
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. - Diderot. Wake me up when a Spinozian uses his ideology to justify his genocide.
"Christianity, on the other hand, actually teaches us that we're accountable for our own actions. Hardly a shift-the-blame sort of belief system."
Twaddle, the Christian doctine of vicarious redemption via human sacrafice is definitely "a shift-the-blame sort of belief system".
The new testament introduced the concept of eternal torture in hell. Christianity is neither moral nor ethical (unless you cherry pick stuff like the golden rule).
The BB is still happening, the "expansion" of the observable universe (small 'u') is just another way of saying space is still exploding into existance, in otherwords the universe IS the big bang. The cosmic microwave background (CMB) is a shell of expanding "light" that came from very early in the long bang. The CMB encloses our universe.
It's claimed that the CMB shell is a universal frame of reference until recently it had been assumed no such universal frame of reference existed, however it's existance does not violate general releativity as some might claim. It's also claimed the geometry of the observable universe is very close to flat (ie: euclidian). Iff those two claims are true then the BB's blue touch paper (geometric center of the universe) is located at the geometric centere of the CMB light shell. However given general relativity you probably need a "god's eye" view of the universe to find it.
We're not spots on a balloon, we're currants in an expanding pudding.
"Right, because coordinating police activity and maintaining databases is entirely the same thing. :p"
Yes that's right it's coordinating the activity of sharing warrants from different police forces into one place.
Hmm, I'm a political extremist, eh?
Nah, you just have poor comprehension.
"you can't even put together a non-contradictory statement about what they actually do."
The GP's statements are not contradictory, what you are seeing is a problem with your comprehension skills. But your not alone, most people from the extremes of politics have a hard time understanding the world because of similarly poor comprehension skills.
After that rant I can only conclude you are either not old enough to remeber "the good old days", or you missed out on the fun part of puberty.
People always think the current crop of kids behave worse than they did, it's a common mistake called nostalgia and otherwise intelligent people have been doing it for millenia...
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." - Socrates.
Eerrggghh, made an arse of myself with the double but. Then I posted this reply to the wrong thread....I think I'll quit while I'm behind.
Eerrggghh, made an arse of myself with the double but.
I wasn't trying to imply a nuclear disaster was harmless but I can see how it could be interpreted that way but I was speaking to extreme averssion wildlife has to the top predator on the planet. The DMZ in Korea also has a lot of wildlife due to the lack of humans. The critters in Korea don't have wierd mutations but they do spend a lot of time clearing landmines.
"IF there is to be a monopoly, I want the monopoly.....Mindless twits."
Yes. Here in Oz we have a monoploly on our considerable mineral wealth, why should I care about a mindless twit from the US/UK/China who thinks they should be an exclusive buyer? The US, UK or China could crush our military like a grape, it's in our strategic and economic interest to supply all of them in the hope that none of them become the sole super powerfull customer.- "Think about it."
Yes the economy has never been the same since we stopped tiping buckets of shit onto the streets.