As one of the original architects of a Push Client (Ifusion Arrive) - I was glad to see I didn't make the list:)
What killed push was a) it's over popularity resulting in bandwidth bottlenecks and b) Microsofts horrible attempt to copy the front runners and subsequent abandonment. To this day I would still like a screen saver with entertaining local headlines and weather - maybe its out there, I havent seen one that's popular.
Maybe since bandwidth has progressed so much it may be time to break out the old source code?
Was it an all time flop? Nah, just came out at the wrong time - it will be back, gaurentee it.
About what this stuff really is? Or do you just bash it because a) its Microsoft and b) it prevents you from stealing music?
Now look, like it or not Microsoft doesn't have billions in the bank because they are dumb. This is something a large portion of their customers want. Don't any of you work with sensitive information? Hell, even the Pr0n collectors out there should be able to relate.
Maybe if there was a non-Microsoft DRM you could hide your stolen music and prevent the RIAA from dragging your butt into court. Again, fact is this is something a lot of people want. If there was a decent 'open' standard addressing the functionality I'm sure MS would jump on it - embrace and extend if needed. But there isn't. This is true, useful inovation. Stop whining and start figuring out how to use it constructively.
Look at the friggin moderation - I can't believe some of the useless babbling that gets moderated as insightful.
yes, that is what I am saying. That is why there is an entire market segment dedicated to automatically maintaning PCs at the desktop. If you think you can run a 15,000 seat shop where every PC is manually updated with every patch you are indeed wrong.
Have you looked at DRM in depth? Have you any idea of its good side or because it is from Microsoft must it only have a dark side? Take off your blinders, you will be more inteligient.
This Linux exploit again proves 1) Problems are not unique to Microsft 2) Open source is not a solution by itself, in fact it can help create/find exploits 3) that newer technology needs research - none of which I've seen occurring in the open source market. As usuall, they will wait till some company spends its R&D dollars, comes up with a good idea, then copy it.
And it wont compare until the fix automaticaly downloads and applies itself with out my intervention. Let's compare how long that takes before we bash Microsoft's delivery time.
An that got moderated insightful? I'd moderate it naive.
In particular, the defense department and other agencies with a need to protect data have been trying to compartmentalize data for as long as computers has been around. If your company doesn't have a need to protect it's (obviously valueless) information it does not mean other companies do not. I for one would welcome the ability to forward new product information to potential customers without having to worry about it showing up at the next design meeting of my competitor. And while initially this may not prevent taking a picture of the screen, I suspect the hardware version in the not to distant future just might. It's useless for you? What do you do, sweep floors?
I got this a while back with the learning DVD for $20 total. I have been considering a switch from 3DS because I'm tired of the constant $1695 'upgrades' that are hardly more than a couple of bugs fixes.
Well, I reviewed the video, played with the PLE a few days and I can not understand where a lot of people say it is better than 3DS. The rendering looked like crap - poor anti-aliasing etc even on the higher quality settings. In short, the trial learning edition taught me not to buy, probably not what they intended. But, I thank them for putting it out there and letting me decide. Now I wish Lightwave would offer the same thing.
I am so sick of trying to fit applications into a poorly designed text markup language invented for punch card word processors. Sure there have been some extensions, but face it - Web and XML is not a language/syntax that would have ever been invented if it was not for an anti-Microsoft movement.
Comparing.Net to Java is too broad - it's like comparing water to gasoline - they both have their place - they both do some things better than the other.
I've written GUI in both -.Net wins easily for level of effort. I'm not saying Java can't do as well - for a larger project with tons of resources you can coax Java into what is done easily and built into.Net. On the other hand when I'm force to write an app in that punch-card-text-markup-language (aka HTML) I find Java more mature - although both.Net and Java suck for debugging such an application.
Ever write a SOAP web service in.Net with visual studio? Piece of cake. I've yet to even attempt it in Java. Why should I? I just wrote 3 in.Net before I could find a current reference for Java.
And quit blaming Microsoft for security holes! It is only because Microsoft is so popular that it is the target of attacks - I seriously doubt if there is any greater number of holes per 1k lines of code than Java, or Linux or anything else for that matter. If security is a compelling concern, then maybe you should run a system least likely to be targeted, haha - pick Mac. Common sense is that you architect with security in mind on any platform, it's called checks and balances.
What are you talking about? We are discussing applications that connect to a database. What the hell do web servers and the internet have to do with anything?
Exactly! In fact, I normally do Windows programming. But times are hard and I've had to do some BSD and Linux stuff. I think I'll go add a few security holes just to keep things evened up a bit.
Do the moderators and meta-moderators simply check to see if an article bashes Microsoft? Is that all you need to do to get moderated up? Can't you automate it then? Why have people read?
OK, I'll agree that its a bad idea to put a userid/password in plain text for any exe or script, database or other, windows or other. But I was refering to your comment about why you believe this is unique to Microsoft programmers and lessens their value. I'm still interested in how you can accomplish db connections without clear text userids and passwords on any open source database. I'm working on a project and have yet to see any way to be secure if I use an open source database. It seems a bit unfair to trash MS programmers when their solution is so simple to implement.
And the difference between this and every executable running against an open source database is... ?? WHat you meant to say was;
Just goes to prove that programmers are a dime a dozen, but most of them are worth that too! In fact I can use Kerberos security with MSSQL by coding "security=integrated" on the connection - care to explain how to accomplish the same thing with an (pick your favorite) open source DB?
I'm glad you shared with us your relevant experience. Let me recap - you have none, correct? And the fact that you got moderated up shows how bad the current moderation system is. .Net can get the job done as well as any of the other products mentioned - PHP/Perl and where is Java/JSP? The subject is whether or not Microsoft should move on from.Net or not. What would be the reason? Because they failed to materialize all the marketting hype? Be real. What tech product in the last 50 years has met all it's marketting hype? Let's put Java at the top of the list to analyse, where even Sun is now admitting that 'write once, run everywhere' was never really going to happen. The real problem as far as I am concerned is that the anti-Microsoft movement was strong enough to halt development of rich end user environments and instead steer the entire industry to a fancy dumb terminal aka http. Applications could be a lot further along now, but instead we have hideous IDEs and debugging environments to deal with. Name one app with the significance of Lotus 1-2-3, Lotus notes, WordPerfect/Word or dBase that has emerged from this web app crap. That is the real dead horse from which it is time to move on.
The thing is, with.Net you can do remote objects out of the box, on a PDA, similiar to RMI. How cool is that? - I can do forms in VB (which has one of the most productive gui builders ever) and talk via http/wireless/soap to remote objects running on a server. I can barely get this to work in Java on a desktop - I can't imagine ever getting it to work on a PDA.
I wish I could re-approach the decisioin to use Java for the main components of this project. Sun, or more likely IBM needs to put some R&D $$$ behind Java quick because.Net is leaving it behind, with the exception of primitive web apps.
Back in the early 90's IBM added a machine instruction to their mainframes called DIV. It treated data in a file system as if it where in virtual mememory - ie addressRecord[12345] appeared to the program as an in memory array, but was backed by disk storage - the same format that was used for paging virtual memory - brilliant. It's a shame it never caught on - it would make advances like this transparent in implementation. Well I guess you can't really say it never caught on - it was a big reason IBMs mainframe databases outperformed everyone else for so long.
Is there a similiar kind of instruction on Intel?
It's probably too late though - indexed arrays have become less useful since associative array patterns have become better defined. A hardware implementation (RAM) of JDO would be interesting.
He's right - whenever I search for an OSS solution, I usually find 5-10 half done applications. Seldom do I find finished polished product. And, on the subject of stability; The OSS crowd has got to get off the soap boax that OSS code is more stable and secure. It is not. Microsoft has billions of dollars in the bank, they can make their product however stable they need to be. The quality of their released products is calculated and managed. The arguments that OSS is 'better' is only hurting the movement. As soon as OSS software starts to infringe on MS becusause of stability, then MS will change their tragets and OSS is back to playing catch up again. What OSS needs to succeed is complete and functional applications with complete documentation. Perhaps if OSDN would step up and manage the submissions of near identical projects rather than blindly accept all (quanity not quality), OSS could make some headway.
Microsoft's implementation of POSIX isn't broken - POSIX is broken. Governement employees demanded POSIX only as a way to avoid Microsoft winning bids. They did not really have any POSIX compliant software - hell POSIX doesnt define file sharing or printing, and especially not GUIs - in short it was worthless.
Look back at IBM's cobol compiler for the mainframe - it supported ANSI compliance - of which no one used, but it was required to win government bids. I remember when IBM was dissing POSIX and Open Systems, now look at em.
Sun needs to do something with Java, it's so immature and it is taking so long to mature into something usable..Net has surpassed Java in it's first release - I guess thatis just what happens when one company has billions of dollars for R&D and the other can barely meet payroll.
Yep, I've had every red hat distribution since it came out. I can lock up 15 programs in Red Hat 8 in less than 30 seconds. It works great for you because you don't do anything with it but type ls at a command prompt. Anyone who thinks command line is more effecient is a non-opinion - you just simply don't know enough about computers to even count. This whole fucking 'if you're not against Microsoft you're a troll' attitude on Slashdot is why it too has become a non-opinion. But thanks for your well documented and factual comeback to my post, it is so much more full of facts and not opinions. It makes me want to run out and delete all my Linux partitions right away.
(Fear Uncertainy and Doubt)
Unfortunately, operating systems are composed of a lot more than a TCP/IP stack. I personally have not had a single Red Hat distribution in 10 years that was better than the at the time Windows version. Not that either was good, but Red Hat certainly has not been any better. In general Linux X-Windows applications tend to be the buggiest software I use. The command line guys may find stability, but it takes them 2 days to do a 10 minute task.
The fact that a 1000 year old never changed stack has become stable is a 'who cares?' Why are you using an irrelevant facts to promote OSS? What fact do you have that makes unpaid programmers less liekly to make mistake and/or be more accountable to secure coding practices? Just luck of the draw?
I did a quick search and did not find those 3 letters, which is suprising, so forgive if this is a repeat but....
PKI (Private Key Infastructure) !!! I have said before and will say again - I am not convinced of it's use for ultimate security/cryptography - but it does a 'good enough' job for email authentication. Go ahead - give the post office (in each repesctive country) master Cert Server status, issue smart cards with Certificates and switch to PKI based e-mail. It would significantly reduce spam, as well as solve a number of other problems based on authenticity. Spammers need more motivation to stop? Let the post office charge a penny for mail delivery. Still beats physical mail! And elliminates the 'free marketting' atraction.
The post office is in need of something new and related to keep it alive (the writing is on the wall) - even now they are depending on physical spam mail for revenue. A national ID card will happen despite all efforts to stop it - so why fight it? Let's negotiate a positive use for it as well. What better government agency to do this? They already have the infastructure.
PKI is relatively open and defined enough to allow for this to happen - certainly as far enough along as that last tech wonder, what was it called? 'The internet'
Spiked
I completely agree. One of the whole issues of OSS v. Microsoft I don't understand is why people think paid programmers are more prone to make errors than unpaid programmers? At least for paid programmers, someone's butt is going get chewed and they might even lose their job. You can bet some paid programmers have been given a deadline to get this problem fixed. In the OSS cumminity you really don't know what the accountability chain is.
Witness the recent hacking into servers and insertion of trojan source code in OSS. If instructions for this procedure was published, how would the OSS community feel about that? How many audits have been done on all other OSS code now that this has been discovered? How many more trojans will we find?
Yes, the handling of this was irresponsible, for commericial or OSS software. It shows malicious intent from a biased group of people to harm Microsoft. Their credibility is zero to any subjective witeness.
Spiked.
Slashdot Mirror
As one of the original architects of a Push Client (Ifusion Arrive) - I was glad to see I didn't make the list :)
What killed push was a) it's over popularity resulting in bandwidth bottlenecks and b) Microsofts horrible attempt to copy the front runners and subsequent abandonment.
To this day I would still like a screen saver with entertaining local headlines and weather - maybe its out there, I havent seen one that's popular.
Maybe since bandwidth has progressed so much it may be time to break out the old source code?
Was it an all time flop? Nah, just came out at the wrong time - it will be back, gaurentee it.
About what this stuff really is? Or do you just bash it because a) its Microsoft and b) it prevents you from stealing music?
Now look, like it or not Microsoft doesn't have billions in the bank because they are dumb. This is something a large portion of their customers want. Don't any of you work with sensitive information? Hell, even the Pr0n collectors out there should be able to relate.
Maybe if there was a non-Microsoft DRM you could hide your stolen music and prevent the RIAA from dragging your butt into court.
Again, fact is this is something a lot of people want. If there was a decent 'open' standard addressing the functionality I'm sure MS would jump on it - embrace and extend if needed. But there isn't. This is true, useful inovation. Stop whining and start figuring out how to use it constructively.
Look at the friggin moderation - I can't believe some of the useless babbling that gets moderated as insightful.
yes, that is what I am saying. That is why there is an entire market segment dedicated to automatically maintaning PCs at the desktop. If you think you can run a 15,000 seat shop where every PC is manually updated with every patch you are indeed wrong. Have you looked at DRM in depth? Have you any idea of its good side or because it is from Microsoft must it only have a dark side? Take off your blinders, you will be more inteligient. This Linux exploit again proves 1) Problems are not unique to Microsft 2) Open source is not a solution by itself, in fact it can help create/find exploits 3) that newer technology needs research - none of which I've seen occurring in the open source market. As usuall, they will wait till some company spends its R&D dollars, comes up with a good idea, then copy it.
And it wont compare until the fix automaticaly downloads and applies itself with out my intervention. Let's compare how long that takes before we bash Microsoft's delivery time.
An that got moderated insightful? I'd moderate it naive.
In particular, the defense department and other agencies with a need to protect data have been trying to compartmentalize data for as long as computers has been around. If your company doesn't have a need to protect it's (obviously valueless) information it does not mean other companies do not.
I for one would welcome the ability to forward new product information to potential customers without having to worry about it showing up at the next design meeting of my competitor. And while initially this may not prevent taking a picture of the screen, I suspect the hardware version in the not to distant future just might.
It's useless for you? What do you do, sweep floors?
it is pasted multiple times across the entire screen. This version can be used for nothing other than learning.
I got this a while back with the learning DVD for $20 total. I have been considering a switch from 3DS because I'm tired of the constant $1695 'upgrades' that are hardly more than a couple of bugs fixes.
Well, I reviewed the video, played with the PLE a few days and I can not understand where a lot of people say it is better than 3DS. The rendering looked like crap - poor anti-aliasing etc even on the higher quality settings. In short, the trial learning edition taught me not to buy, probably not what they intended. But, I thank them for putting it out there and letting me decide.
Now I wish Lightwave would offer the same thing.
I am so sick of trying to fit applications into a poorly designed text markup language invented for punch card word processors. Sure there have been some extensions, but face it - Web and XML is not a language/syntax that would have ever been invented if it was not for an anti-Microsoft movement. .Net to Java is too broad - it's like comparing water to gasoline - they both have their place - they both do some things better than the other. .Net wins easily for level of effort. I'm not saying Java can't do as well - for a larger project with tons of resources you can coax Java into what is done easily and built into .Net. On the other hand when I'm force to write an app in that punch-card-text-markup-language (aka HTML) I find Java more mature - although both .Net and Java suck for debugging such an application. .Net with visual studio? Piece of cake. I've yet to even attempt it in Java. Why should I? I just wrote 3 in .Net before I could find a current reference for Java.
Comparing
I've written GUI in both -
Ever write a SOAP web service in
And quit blaming Microsoft for security holes! It is only because Microsoft is so popular that it is the target of attacks - I seriously doubt if there is any greater number of holes per 1k lines of code than Java, or Linux or anything else for that matter. If security is a compelling concern, then maybe you should run a system least likely to be targeted, haha - pick Mac. Common sense is that you architect with security in mind on any platform, it's called checks and balances.
What are you talking about? We are discussing applications that connect to a database. What the hell do web servers and the internet have to do with anything?
The problem with this is any monkey and a LAN sniffer can see the userid and password as easily as if it was in the clear in the exe. Next.
Exactly! In fact, I normally do Windows programming. But times are hard and I've had to do some BSD and Linux stuff. I think I'll go add a few security holes just to keep things evened up a bit.
Do the moderators and meta-moderators simply check to see if an article bashes Microsoft? Is that all you need to do to get moderated up? Can't you automate it then? Why have people read?
OK, I'll agree that its a bad idea to put a userid/password in plain text for any exe or script, database or other, windows or other. But I was refering to your comment about why you believe this is unique to Microsoft programmers and lessens their value.
I'm still interested in how you can accomplish db connections without clear text userids and passwords on any open source database. I'm working on a project and have yet to see any way to be secure if I use an open source database. It seems a bit unfair to trash MS programmers when their solution is so simple to implement.
And the difference between this and every executable running against an open source database is ... ?? WHat you meant to say was;
Just goes to prove that programmers are a dime a dozen, but most of them are worth that too!
In fact I can use Kerberos security with MSSQL by coding "security=integrated" on the connection - care to explain how to accomplish the same thing with an (pick your favorite) open source DB?
I'm glad you shared with us your relevant experience. Let me recap - you have none, correct? And the fact that you got moderated up shows how bad the current moderation system is. .Net or not. What would be the reason? Because they failed to materialize all the marketting hype? Be real. What tech product in the last 50 years has met all it's marketting hype? Let's put Java at the top of the list to analyse, where even Sun is now admitting that 'write once, run everywhere' was never really going to happen.
.Net can get the job done as well as any of the other products mentioned - PHP/Perl and where is Java/JSP?
The subject is whether or not Microsoft should move on from
The real problem as far as I am concerned is that the anti-Microsoft movement was strong enough to halt development of rich end user environments and instead steer the entire industry to a fancy dumb terminal aka http. Applications could be a lot further along now, but instead we have hideous IDEs and debugging environments to deal with. Name one app with the significance of Lotus 1-2-3, Lotus notes, WordPerfect/Word or dBase that has emerged from this web app crap. That is the real dead horse from which it is time to move on.
Why hasn't someone already accused Microsoft of inventing the swimming cockroach long ago?
I heard that somewhere.
I wouldn't do anything now, because the market sucks. But when you have another job lined up, hot poker up the butt to em.
The thing is, with .Net you can do remote objects out of the box, on a PDA, similiar to RMI. How cool is that? - I can do forms in VB (which has one of the most productive gui builders ever) and talk via http/wireless/soap to remote objects running on a server. I can barely get this to work in Java on a desktop - I can't imagine ever getting it to work on a PDA.
I wish I could re-approach the decisioin to use Java for the main components of this project. Sun, or more likely IBM needs to put some R&D $$$ behind Java quick because .Net is leaving it behind, with the exception of primitive web apps.
Back in the early 90's IBM added a machine instruction to their mainframes called DIV. It treated data in a file system as if it where in virtual mememory - ie addressRecord[12345] appeared to the program as an in memory array, but was backed by disk storage - the same format that was used for paging virtual memory - brilliant. It's a shame it never caught on - it would make advances like this transparent in implementation. Well I guess you can't really say it never caught on - it was a big reason IBMs mainframe databases outperformed everyone else for so long.
Is there a similiar kind of instruction on Intel? It's probably too late though - indexed arrays have become less useful since associative array patterns have become better defined. A hardware implementation (RAM) of JDO would be interesting.
He's right - whenever I search for an OSS solution, I usually find 5-10 half done applications. Seldom do I find finished polished product.
And, on the subject of stability; The OSS crowd has got to get off the soap boax that OSS code is more stable and secure. It is not. Microsoft has billions of dollars in the bank, they can make their product however stable they need to be. The quality of their released products is calculated and managed. The arguments that OSS is 'better' is only hurting the movement. As soon as OSS software starts to infringe on MS becusause of stability, then MS will change their tragets and OSS is back to playing catch up again.
What OSS needs to succeed is complete and functional applications with complete documentation. Perhaps if OSDN would step up and manage the submissions of near identical projects rather than blindly accept all (quanity not quality), OSS could make some headway.
Microsoft's implementation of POSIX isn't broken - POSIX is broken. Governement employees demanded POSIX only as a way to avoid Microsoft winning bids. They did not really have any POSIX compliant software - hell POSIX doesnt define file sharing or printing, and especially not GUIs - in short it was worthless. .Net has surpassed Java in it's first release - I guess thatis just what happens when one company has billions of dollars for R&D and the other can barely meet payroll.
Look back at IBM's cobol compiler for the mainframe - it supported ANSI compliance - of which no one used, but it was required to win government bids.
I remember when IBM was dissing POSIX and Open Systems, now look at em.
Sun needs to do something with Java, it's so immature and it is taking so long to mature into something usable.
Yep, I've had every red hat distribution since it came out. I can lock up 15 programs in Red Hat 8 in less than 30 seconds. It works great for you because you don't do anything with it but type ls at a command prompt. Anyone who thinks command line is more effecient is a non-opinion - you just simply don't know enough about computers to even count.
This whole fucking 'if you're not against Microsoft you're a troll' attitude on Slashdot is why it too has become a non-opinion. But thanks for your well documented and factual comeback to my post, it is so much more full of facts and not opinions. It makes me want to run out and delete all my Linux partitions right away.
(Fear Uncertainy and Doubt) Unfortunately, operating systems are composed of a lot more than a TCP/IP stack. I personally have not had a single Red Hat distribution in 10 years that was better than the at the time Windows version. Not that either was good, but Red Hat certainly has not been any better. In general Linux X-Windows applications tend to be the buggiest software I use. The command line guys may find stability, but it takes them 2 days to do a 10 minute task.
The fact that a 1000 year old never changed stack has become stable is a 'who cares?' Why are you using an irrelevant facts to promote OSS? What fact do you have that makes unpaid programmers less liekly to make mistake and/or be more accountable to secure coding practices? Just luck of the draw?
I did a quick search and did not find those 3 letters, which is suprising, so forgive if this is a repeat but....
PKI (Private Key Infastructure) !!! I have said before and will say again - I am not convinced of it's use for ultimate security/cryptography - but it does a 'good enough' job for email authentication. Go ahead - give the post office (in each repesctive country) master Cert Server status, issue smart cards with Certificates and switch to PKI based e-mail. It would significantly reduce spam, as well as solve a number of other problems based on authenticity. Spammers need more motivation to stop? Let the post office charge a penny for mail delivery. Still beats physical mail! And elliminates the 'free marketting' atraction.
The post office is in need of something new and related to keep it alive (the writing is on the wall) - even now they are depending on physical spam mail for revenue. A national ID card will happen despite all efforts to stop it - so why fight it? Let's negotiate a positive use for it as well. What better government agency to do this? They already have the infastructure.
PKI is relatively open and defined enough to allow for this to happen - certainly as far enough along as that last tech wonder, what was it called? 'The internet' Spiked
I completely agree.
One of the whole issues of OSS v. Microsoft I don't understand is why people think paid programmers are more prone to make errors than unpaid programmers? At least for paid programmers, someone's butt is going get chewed and they might even lose their job. You can bet some paid programmers have been given a deadline to get this problem fixed. In the OSS cumminity you really don't know what the accountability chain is.
Witness the recent hacking into servers and insertion of trojan source code in OSS. If instructions for this procedure was published, how would the OSS community feel about that? How many audits have been done on all other OSS code now that this has been discovered? How many more trojans will we find?
Yes, the handling of this was irresponsible, for commericial or OSS software. It shows malicious intent from a biased group of people to harm Microsoft. Their credibility is zero to any subjective witeness.
Spiked.