"If you think that health insurance should work like car insurance, well, you're making a bad analogy between car accidents and help."
Err...that's exactly how health insurance used to work, back when it was called "major medical coverage". YOu only used it for emergencies.
Before there was the co-pay thing, and you used insurance for everything like the sniffles, going to the Dr. was affordable, costs didn't skyrocket.
For the rare cases for someone who does get something chronic, I'd say why not open medicare for cases like that? I mean, we already have a socialized program to help those that can't help themselves, I'd be cool with expanding it for the outlier cases like you mentioned, that happens to people that can't afford to take care of themselves.
For the majority of people, HSA's and emergency care insurance would be more than sufficient.
I just don't see in the constitution where the Feds are chartered to provide medical care for everyone. I don't see where it is there to do medicare/medicaid, but since we already have it, why not fix it and allow those like you mentioned have access to it.
"Because healthcare isnt a "routine expense". A routine expense is something like a phone bill or a power bill, which you generally know beforehand the expected amount and expected date that you need to pay it by. Healthcare is the polar opposite of this. You don't have any idea when you will need medical care. You could be hit by a bus later today and have absolutely no way to plan for that. As I understand the american healthcare system as a non american, you would need to have 200k or so in a "healthcare savings" account, just to cover you if you, as mentioned previously, got hit by a bus and were in traction for months."
I think you missed my point about having insurance, for catastrophic/emergency medical expenditures. A high deductible (maybe like $1200)...gives low rates, and is there for when you get hit by a bus, break a leg, heart attack....something that requires a hospital stay.
Routine is not that...it is annual checkups, regular meds you take that you know about. Having a cold or the flu is something you can save for, etc. YOu can set up a HSA (Health Savings Account) to save for these annually, the money comes out pre-tax, so you actually lower your taxable income. It is NOT use it or lose it, so the account keeps growing over the years. This is especially good to start young while healthy...if you don't use it all, at retirement, it can roll over to retimement dollars. This system IS available now, I did it when working for myself, and I quite enjoyed it. I'm back to W2 for now...and unfortunately, the company doesn't offer a high deductible medical insurance option, which currently is required.
I would advocate expanding the HSA program to make it easier for all people to get into, it is tough to do as a W2 employee, which most people are.
While I did this, I saved for routine health like annual checkups, glasses, contacts, eye exams, medications I take..etc. I put in a bit monthly just like I save for rent and food and retirement.
"Right now, most people can get some sort of health care just be going to the emergency room. However, that is really expensive. The public could save a lot of money right now by getting people to see a doctor before a problem becomes an emergency."
Well, this is pretty much what I'm advocating.
Insurance for emergencies...it used to be thie way, it was called "major medical" insurance. To be used for catastrophic medical needs.
The rates for this are pretty low. You take what you would pay for this, plus a little more, and put into a Health Savings Account pre-tax...and you use that fund to pay for routine things like annual checkups, when you need a flu shot..preventative health maintenance.
There is no reason you shouldn't plan and save for this just like you do for food, shelter and transportation.
If you took the bean counters and insurance out of every day routine medical stuff, you'd see prices drop. But people should take responsibiltiy for their health needs and budget for it.
"Does "routine" include my wife falling and tearing her rotator cuff ? approximately $60,000 later, it is now pretty much fixed. Of course, I had insurance so the 60K that was billed became $8800, but it was made very clear to me when I asked, that without health insurance, the billed amount would be expected. I don't understand how 60 grand becomes less than 9 grand just because I had insurance."
No...I think that falls pretty much into my scenario of catastrophic medical events of which insurance should be there for...
Err...because your insurance paid a % of the bill, and you owed the $9K balance? Seems pretty straightforward to me if I'm understanding you correctly.
Routine stuff...normal checkups, getting the flu, regular meds one takes...that kind of thing is easily taken care of by planning, and saving in a pre-tax HSA, and paying from that for the routine health needs.
"I will state this bluntly: I was not covered before. I have a pre-existing condition and cannot get insurance on the private market. Not 'cannot afford'...cannot get. I've called up the dozen or so insurance companies that operate in my state, explained my medical condition, they inform me I cannot get insurance from them."
So, do you not work for a company? I've never heard of a company provided health plan reject an employee, even with pre-existing conditions.
If you are self employed...well, I ran into that for awhile too. After my last W2 gig, I let the cobra run out, and found out that it is very difficult to get insurance if you have let insuranse laps. I had high triglycerides which is a huge flag for insurance companies.
I took the route of getting a bit of a fly by night insurance co to take me on..kept that for 6mos, and then was able to get a better company like BC/BS to take me on.
If working independently, do what it takes to get a high deductible insurance policy, you really only need insurance for catastrophic health events. Set up a HSA for your routine stuff, you take this out pre-tax and save a lot of money this way. A HSA is not use it or lose it either.
I found when I did this...I actually went to have some MRI tests done, when they asked for insurance I told them I didn't have any, and they knocked off like nearly 20% right off the top. I used my HSA funds to pay for it.
If you really have trouble getting insurance, look to your state. I almost did it in mine for the un-insurable. Yes, it is a bit pricey, but will cover you till you can get regular insurance providers to take you on.
But really, just get something that you need for catastrophic events, and plan and save for your routine medical needs and drugs.
"Congress has the authority to promote behaviors via the tax code, which is exactly how the individual mandate is implemented. The question in this case is "Is there a substantive difference between taxing someone for NOT doing something (penalties), vs crediting them for DOING something (subsidies)" And I don't think the Constitution on its face answers that question. It's a question of interpretation and case law."
Trouble is, congress went out of their way to say this was not a TAX. They couldn't get the votes if they called it a tax. That is part of why this got struck down, they don't have the power to penalize or 'fee' someone.
"We have the most expensive health care in the world, but we are not the healthiest people."
Honestly, I think our lifestyle is the main reason we are not the healthiest people in the world. I don't think if health care was somehow provided for free in the US somehow, that we'd really be any healthier.
You've got likely a majority of people in the US, that are too lazy to exercise, that only eat junk food...and too much of that.
I don't think any amount of healthcare is going to fix that problem. Hell, these days, it starts so early, it breaks my heart to see all of these tubby little kids running around these days. It isn't one or two here and there like I saw growing up. No, it is common to see obese little kids with their obese parents all over the place today in the US.
"When they quite literally have you by your life, they can charge whatever they want. It's the definition of unbalanced contracts and negotiating from a position of weakness."
Well, a lot of the problem comes from the bastardization of the concept of INSURANCE when it comes to health care. Insurance should be there ONLY for catastrophic health events(ie heart attack, accident). Routine health expenditures, should be saved and budgeted for like any other necessity of life (food, shelter, beer...).
If this were the case, then insurance wouldn't be so damned expensive. Also, if we went back more the "in my day" days...you'd have the independent Dr. out there again hanging his shingle out, and could charge reasonable rates, often based on what the person could pay. My uncle was an MD, I saw how this worked in practice. Medical costs weren't outrageous like they are now...IMHO, this is largely due to bean counters and other non-health leeches on the system ratcheting things up to the mess we have today.
Why not go to insurance for more emergency usage, and expand the program for HSA's (Health Savings Accounts) for everyone, to save for their own routine medical/drug needs PRE-Tax, and unlike the FSA's, let everyone have a HSA that is not use it or lose it.
Why should routine health care not be a personal responsibility like anything else in life?
This also might break the strange connection between health insurance and work...which often today, ties one to a job for people that are worried about changing jobs and jeopardizing benefits.
"Which is odd since it was called the Affordable Healthcare Act(according to TFA). My premiums went up big time. My deductible went up big time. My coverage declined moderately. My ability to purchase drugs from a pharmacy was removed(all mail order now). The company sent a letter stating that "due to recent legislation, costs have risen and they're being passed on to you". Definitely the opposite of what the name of the act implies. If this is what reform is I think I'll stick to the Vote No on Everything platform to prevent Congress from doing anymore harm to the US."
Not to mention, that if this law stands, then I will now start to be taxes on my company (working W2 right now) health benefits like they were regular compensations.
Congratulations, we all just got a raise and didn't know about it. All it will mean to you is...you will have a higher tax bill.
"Unless appealed, the risk pool gets a leg kicked out, and it gets messier from there."
As I mentioned in another post, from what I understand, the congress neglected to put in language to allow parts of the law that were not ruled unconstitutional to remain while the other parts are thrown out.
So, from what I understand, if one part is thrown out, the whole law is thrown out, and they'd have to start from scratch.
Frankly, I have no problem with that. Sure some reforms need to be enacted, but this time, how about making is simple and directed...and in a shorter form that can be READ before being voted on.
I'm still flabbergasted that someone in congress actually said (paraphrased) "Let's all vote for it, so we can see what all is in it.."
"Just as the government can put a tax on you doing something, they can put a tax on you not doing something. Just as the government can say "we give everyone that have children a tax reduction", that same government can say "We give everyone that buys health care, a tax reduction." "
Aah...but that is one problem the framers of this obamacare law did that is biting them in the ass now. They went out of their way to make sure it was not called a tax. They might have gotten away with it, but it wouldn't have passed both houses if it had been called a tax.
Frankly, I wish the Feds and States would stop trying to direct behavior via taxes. Also, why do we give people with kids tax breaks? The kids actually USE more resources, so, why shouldn't they actually pay more? Please don't give me the argument that the tax break is an incentive to have kids. I know that no where have 2x people been in the throws of passions, and it dawns on the guy he gets a deduction for kids, and rips off the rubber so he can blow a nut in his woman. No, people will fuck and have kids without tax incentives, therefore, those without kids shouldn't be subsidizing them.
But that's getting off topic...but really, Obamacare was not set up as a TAX, although once passed, they tried saying it was to get by the courts.
From what I understand, this law didn't have the provisions in it, to allow some parts to remain if other parts were struck down, meaning if one part is ruled unconstitutional, then the whole thing goes down the drain and they would have to start from scratch.
"Since the article and discussion is about providing high speed broadband access, then I assume the point of your statement is that because you have running water you should also have 1GB internet access?"
"We all know there are no homosexuals in the TSA. I mean, that's why they always do same-gender pat downs. That just wouldn't work if there were gay TSA agents, would it?"
I dunno, pretty much ALL women are one strawberry daiquiri away from giving it a try with another chick.
"But then what to do expect from people whose sole purpose it to make emotional over reactions."
Well, I *DO* have a reaction to the fscking up MY healthcare.
I'm perfectly happy with it and how it worked. Now..well, starting out, my benefits will now be taxed as income, and that will increase my tax bill. After awhile, the company will look at the increased costs, and either cut benefits, or drop it entirely, and submit us to some fucking govt. run health plan, which will never be as good as what I had before.
And really, well...going to the DMV here (I know, state thing) for a new license or anything really, is an ALL DAY affair. I shudder to think how my govt run healthcare will be any better. Sitting in line for days just to get a flu shot...or bleed to death before I can get stitches.
"When the woman withdraws consent the man withdraws his organ, or it is rape.... unless you live in crazy-town."
Depends...in the heat of the moment, hard to figure out if she is saying "Don't!!!...Stop!!!"
Oh Got...don't stop...don't stop...
And besides, if you're 3x strokes away from blowing a nut...who's gonna pull out at that point? Hell, she might have said stop right when he DID blow a nut, you know? In the latter case..that is rape?
"Some point could very well mean they have it in their will that half the money goes to charity or that they plan to donate the money only when they know they'll be dead soon."
Well, if the Democrats have their way with raising the estate/death tax....then he can just wait till he dies, and half of it will go to charity. The US Treasury being said charity.
"Bill always claimed he was going to give away most of his fortune at age 55, I didn't believe it until I saw him do it. Kudo's to him for his generosity, for keeping his word, and for showing others that mega-philanthropy brings it's own rewards."
I'll bet his kids are going to be thrilled he's giving away their inheritance like this...
"Have you ever thought about falling tax receipts because of the recession? Spending could remain constant while receipts fall, sending deficits skyrocketing. "
Well, when most households start to bring in less money, what do they do? The STOP spending as much.
They need to quit spending so fucking much money. Start by immediately STOP sending foreign aid. Take care of home first. Cut the bureaucracy....the federal govt should not be one of the best paying largest employers in the nation. Raise the age of SS. Means test medicare, etc....
There is a TON of money the govt. wastes. Quit buying car companies. Quite printing money to buy back debt. Quit bailing out banks. Quit offering to have the govt. do things it was NOT mandated to do by the constitution...where in there does it say to pay for healthcare? Where does it say to pay welfare and food stamps to people? I'm sorry..I'm not reading that anywhere in the limited number of enumerated powers and responsibilities in the US Constitution.
At the very least...get rid of the czars...and the programs they over see. Get rid of the DEA...that 'war' alone costs billions.
Maybe challenging the claim that the current administration is going to help save money with Obamacare? (Busted?)
Maybe challenging Obama's claim of a more transparent administration...maybe they really DO have legislation online for us to look at before they vote on it like he promised. (Busted?)
Maybe looking into the myth that Bush and others spent more than he has, yet somehow the national debt is already about doubled what it was for the Bush crew this early in Obama's presidency?
Maybe look at the myth that Obama and Co. were going to stop the wars?
Maybe disprove the myth that Obama isn't US born, and find the missing birth certificate? (Ok tongue in cheek on this one, just too funny for me to leave out).
Maybe investigate the myth that Obama really *is* different than his predecessor(s) and not just a product of the media, and is just as beholden to the corporate entities that fund them as any of the other politicians?
Slashdot Mirror
Err...that's exactly how health insurance used to work, back when it was called "major medical coverage". YOu only used it for emergencies.
Before there was the co-pay thing, and you used insurance for everything like the sniffles, going to the Dr. was affordable, costs didn't skyrocket.
For the rare cases for someone who does get something chronic, I'd say why not open medicare for cases like that? I mean, we already have a socialized program to help those that can't help themselves, I'd be cool with expanding it for the outlier cases like you mentioned, that happens to people that can't afford to take care of themselves.
For the majority of people, HSA's and emergency care insurance would be more than sufficient.
I just don't see in the constitution where the Feds are chartered to provide medical care for everyone. I don't see where it is there to do medicare/medicaid, but since we already have it, why not fix it and allow those like you mentioned have access to it.
I think you missed my point about having insurance, for catastrophic/emergency medical expenditures. A high deductible (maybe like $1200)...gives low rates, and is there for when you get hit by a bus, break a leg, heart attack....something that requires a hospital stay.
Routine is not that...it is annual checkups, regular meds you take that you know about. Having a cold or the flu is something you can save for, etc. YOu can set up a HSA (Health Savings Account) to save for these annually, the money comes out pre-tax, so you actually lower your taxable income. It is NOT use it or lose it, so the account keeps growing over the years. This is especially good to start young while healthy...if you don't use it all, at retirement, it can roll over to retimement dollars. This system IS available now, I did it when working for myself, and I quite enjoyed it. I'm back to W2 for now...and unfortunately, the company doesn't offer a high deductible medical insurance option, which currently is required.
I would advocate expanding the HSA program to make it easier for all people to get into, it is tough to do as a W2 employee, which most people are.
While I did this, I saved for routine health like annual checkups, glasses, contacts, eye exams, medications I take..etc. I put in a bit monthly just like I save for rent and food and retirement.
Well, this is pretty much what I'm advocating.
Insurance for emergencies...it used to be thie way, it was called "major medical" insurance. To be used for catastrophic medical needs.
The rates for this are pretty low. You take what you would pay for this, plus a little more, and put into a Health Savings Account pre-tax...and you use that fund to pay for routine things like annual checkups, when you need a flu shot..preventative health maintenance.
There is no reason you shouldn't plan and save for this just like you do for food, shelter and transportation.
If you took the bean counters and insurance out of every day routine medical stuff, you'd see prices drop. But people should take responsibiltiy for their health needs and budget for it.
No...I think that falls pretty much into my scenario of catastrophic medical events of which insurance should be there for...
Err...because your insurance paid a % of the bill, and you owed the $9K balance? Seems pretty straightforward to me if I'm understanding you correctly.
Routine stuff...normal checkups, getting the flu, regular meds one takes...that kind of thing is easily taken care of by planning, and saving in a pre-tax HSA, and paying from that for the routine health needs.
So, do you not work for a company? I've never heard of a company provided health plan reject an employee, even with pre-existing conditions.
If you are self employed...well, I ran into that for awhile too. After my last W2 gig, I let the cobra run out, and found out that it is very difficult to get insurance if you have let insuranse laps. I had high triglycerides which is a huge flag for insurance companies.
I took the route of getting a bit of a fly by night insurance co to take me on..kept that for 6mos, and then was able to get a better company like BC/BS to take me on.
If working independently, do what it takes to get a high deductible insurance policy, you really only need insurance for catastrophic health events. Set up a HSA for your routine stuff, you take this out pre-tax and save a lot of money this way. A HSA is not use it or lose it either.
I found when I did this...I actually went to have some MRI tests done, when they asked for insurance I told them I didn't have any, and they knocked off like nearly 20% right off the top. I used my HSA funds to pay for it.
If you really have trouble getting insurance, look to your state. I almost did it in mine for the un-insurable. Yes, it is a bit pricey, but will cover you till you can get regular insurance providers to take you on.
But really, just get something that you need for catastrophic events, and plan and save for your routine medical needs and drugs.
Trouble is, congress went out of their way to say this was not a TAX. They couldn't get the votes if they called it a tax. That is part of why this got struck down, they don't have the power to penalize or 'fee' someone.
Honestly, I think our lifestyle is the main reason we are not the healthiest people in the world. I don't think if health care was somehow provided for free in the US somehow, that we'd really be any healthier.
You've got likely a majority of people in the US, that are too lazy to exercise, that only eat junk food...and too much of that.
I don't think any amount of healthcare is going to fix that problem. Hell, these days, it starts so early, it breaks my heart to see all of these tubby little kids running around these days. It isn't one or two here and there like I saw growing up. No, it is common to see obese little kids with their obese parents all over the place today in the US.
Well, a lot of the problem comes from the bastardization of the concept of INSURANCE when it comes to health care. Insurance should be there ONLY for catastrophic health events(ie heart attack, accident). Routine health expenditures, should be saved and budgeted for like any other necessity of life (food, shelter, beer...).
If this were the case, then insurance wouldn't be so damned expensive. Also, if we went back more the "in my day" days...you'd have the independent Dr. out there again hanging his shingle out, and could charge reasonable rates, often based on what the person could pay. My uncle was an MD, I saw how this worked in practice. Medical costs weren't outrageous like they are now...IMHO, this is largely due to bean counters and other non-health leeches on the system ratcheting things up to the mess we have today.
Why not go to insurance for more emergency usage, and expand the program for HSA's (Health Savings Accounts) for everyone, to save for their own routine medical/drug needs PRE-Tax, and unlike the FSA's, let everyone have a HSA that is not use it or lose it.
Why should routine health care not be a personal responsibility like anything else in life?
This also might break the strange connection between health insurance and work...which often today, ties one to a job for people that are worried about changing jobs and jeopardizing benefits.
Not to mention, that if this law stands, then I will now start to be taxes on my company (working W2 right now) health benefits like they were regular compensations.
Congratulations, we all just got a raise and didn't know about it. All it will mean to you is...you will have a higher tax bill.
As I mentioned in another post, from what I understand, the congress neglected to put in language to allow parts of the law that were not ruled unconstitutional to remain while the other parts are thrown out.
So, from what I understand, if one part is thrown out, the whole law is thrown out, and they'd have to start from scratch.
Frankly, I have no problem with that. Sure some reforms need to be enacted, but this time, how about making is simple and directed...and in a shorter form that can be READ before being voted on.
I'm still flabbergasted that someone in congress actually said (paraphrased) "Let's all vote for it, so we can see what all is in it.."
Aah...but that is one problem the framers of this obamacare law did that is biting them in the ass now. They went out of their way to make sure it was not called a tax. They might have gotten away with it, but it wouldn't have passed both houses if it had been called a tax.
Frankly, I wish the Feds and States would stop trying to direct behavior via taxes. Also, why do we give people with kids tax breaks? The kids actually USE more resources, so, why shouldn't they actually pay more? Please don't give me the argument that the tax break is an incentive to have kids. I know that no where have 2x people been in the throws of passions, and it dawns on the guy he gets a deduction for kids, and rips off the rubber so he can blow a nut in his woman. No, people will fuck and have kids without tax incentives, therefore, those without kids shouldn't be subsidizing them.
But that's getting off topic...but really, Obamacare was not set up as a TAX, although once passed, they tried saying it was to get by the courts.
From what I understand, this law didn't have the provisions in it, to allow some parts to remain if other parts were struck down, meaning if one part is ruled unconstitutional, then the whole thing goes down the drain and they would have to start from scratch.
Why not?
They both use tubes after all, right?
Perhaps Wonka-Vision ??
I dunno, pretty much ALL women are one strawberry daiquiri away from giving it a try with another chick.
These days...it is getting hard to TELL which one is the bum, and which one is the president.
Well, I *DO* have a reaction to the fscking up MY healthcare.
I'm perfectly happy with it and how it worked. Now..well, starting out, my benefits will now be taxed as income, and that will increase my tax bill. After awhile, the company will look at the increased costs, and either cut benefits, or drop it entirely, and submit us to some fucking govt. run health plan, which will never be as good as what I had before.
And really, well...going to the DMV here (I know, state thing) for a new license or anything really, is an ALL DAY affair. I shudder to think how my govt run healthcare will be any better. Sitting in line for days just to get a flu shot...or bleed to death before I can get stitches.
Depends...in the heat of the moment, hard to figure out if she is saying "Don't!!!...Stop!!!"
Oh Got...don't stop...don't stop...
And besides, if you're 3x strokes away from blowing a nut...who's gonna pull out at that point? Hell, she might have said stop right when he DID blow a nut, you know? In the latter case..that is rape?
I don't think so.
"Hey, when everyone is out to get you paranoid is just....
---Dr. Johnny Fever
Don't say nothing negative about bush, man, or i'll eat it, then f__k it -- again and again. That'll teach you. "M
Speak for yourself, I prefer when they go Full Brazilian!!!
I'm not looking to floss my teeth when I'm down there...
Well, if the Democrats have their way with raising the estate/death tax....then he can just wait till he dies, and half of it will go to charity. The US Treasury being said charity.
I'll bet his kids are going to be thrilled he's giving away their inheritance like this...
Well, when most households start to bring in less money, what do they do? The STOP spending as much.
They need to quit spending so fucking much money. Start by immediately STOP sending foreign aid. Take care of home first. Cut the bureaucracy....the federal govt should not be one of the best paying largest employers in the nation. Raise the age of SS. Means test medicare, etc....
There is a TON of money the govt. wastes. Quit buying car companies. Quite printing money to buy back debt. Quit bailing out banks. Quit offering to have the govt. do things it was NOT mandated to do by the constitution...where in there does it say to pay for healthcare? Where does it say to pay welfare and food stamps to people? I'm sorry..I'm not reading that anywhere in the limited number of enumerated powers and responsibilities in the US Constitution.
At the very least...get rid of the czars...and the programs they over see. Get rid of the DEA...that 'war' alone costs billions.
I thought they would do some REAL MythBusting.
Maybe challenging the claim that the current administration is going to help save money with Obamacare? (Busted?)
Maybe challenging Obama's claim of a more transparent administration...maybe they really DO have legislation online for us to look at before they vote on it like he promised. (Busted?)
Maybe looking into the myth that Bush and others spent more than he has, yet somehow the national debt is already about doubled what it was for the Bush crew this early in Obama's presidency?
Maybe look at the myth that Obama and Co. were going to stop the wars?
Maybe disprove the myth that Obama isn't US born, and find the missing birth certificate? (Ok tongue in cheek on this one, just too funny for me to leave out).
Maybe investigate the myth that Obama really *is* different than his predecessor(s) and not just a product of the media, and is just as beholden to the corporate entities that fund them as any of the other politicians?
Maybe to investigate the mythic "change"....?
Well, they could go one step more...get the new actors, copy them, kill them, and then not have to pay anyone for them...
Hmm, that might make for an interesting movie.
Ahh...back when Susan Dey was hot.
It was done many years ago....by Steve Martin.