That's cool. The last ie update fixed bugs found 2 years ago.
Re:Don't use your distro tools to install it...
on
Firefox 1.0.7 Released
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
This is a pretty serious troll. There is no install on windows, install shield or otherwise that you can install with a double click. The double-click starts the installer, then you answer a series of questions. Afterward, you configure the app manually.
On linux you apt-get install app or select it and then click install in synaptic. Then configure the app manually. For many things you can simply run appname-configure afterward to configure.
In case you haven't noticed, the processes are mostly the same, except that linux does not require you to answer the string of questions.
"It's the dumb user that's vulnerable, not the OS. That's equally as true for Windows as it is for Linux."
Your right except for this part. Although there are no shortage of dumb user exploits in windows, there are no shortage of OS exploits either. In linux dumb users are vulnerable. In windows dumb users AND the OS are vulnerable.
You do realize that math is no more or less than the process of abstracting object physical data into a form that can be manipulated in said abstract form? So long as the operations on the abstract form remain consistant with reality, it is still math.
Moving objects on a list IS inheriently mathmatical. It became mathmatical the moment you abstracted the physical into an abstract list. The moving part is simply a mathmatical operation.
The numbers shown actually indicate that firefox has superior security development work done.
Both browsers have exploits of course, the Mozilla team is actually finding and eliminating more of theirs.
Giving the number of bugs found is one of the favorite sources of fud for proprietary vendor supporters wanting to claim to be as secure as open source. Open source development models find and eliminating a far greater number of vulnerabilities and ADMIT to all of them. That hardly makes them less secure.
My view is perfectly in line with the definition YOU posted.
We have established that elitism is feeling that one is superior and entitled to something (like knowledge, one's way, etc) because of that superority. I have demonstrated how that criteria is met in the circumstances under discussion.
This would be the point where you either demonstrate that something I have said is inaccurate and therefore fails to meet the definition or attack the point from another angle besides the dictionary. Either way, pointing to the same definition I have accepted in the past few posts and has never been contrary to anything I have said is not going to get us anywhere.
I doubt it. Anytime something pushes for open standards but not open source they are really pushing for technologies BASED on open standards. This means Microsoft has been there.
For instance, Microsoft claims that because MSXML is based on XML it is using an open standard. Or because Active directory is based on LDAP and Kerberos that it is using open standards. The Microsoft version is entirely proprietary but politicians and CTO's miss that point.
"The whole point, which you completely missed, is that the elitism the GP is referring to DOES NOT EXIST. None of these individuals is attempting to subjugate other people on the basis of their tech savyness."
The whole point, which you completely missed is that nobody has to attempt to subjugate other people for the elitism to exist.
Simply feeling superior is elitism. You can be elitist without ever interacting with another human being.
"To sum up: the word does not mean what you think it does. Arrogance only meets the definition of elitism when the feeling of superiority is paired with a sense of increased entitlement, and that definition does not accurately describe this community."
To sum it up, the word means exactly what I think it does. Believe it or not you are not bearing a torch and enlightening the ignorant here.
When joeblow asks techgod for help and techgod tells to leave him alone it may or may not be elitist. If techgod told joeblow to leave him alone because he believed that joeblow was too stupid to help, not skilled enough to help, or not worthy of his help; that is elitist. On the other hand, if techgod tells joeblow to leave him alone because techgod only helps friends or those who pay him that is not elitist.
Anytime a community denies entry it is a form of elitism. The members of the community have a sense of entitlement to the benifits of said community because they are superior in whatever aspect they used as grounds for denial of entry.
When you refuse to share knowledge that would allow someone to use Linux because they are a lamer you are declaring that they are not worthy to join the community you yourself are a part of. You are saying that you are entitled to the knowledge because you have what it takes and they are not because they are a lamer.
The whole developer, doc writer, and user scenerio is another issue but elitism exists in EVERY class involved there as well.
The user is the one who actually has to work with the software everyday and feels he is entitled to the functionality he needs.
The documentation writer is the one who has to explain to users of all technical expertise levels how things work in a sane manner. Therefore he believes HE should dictate how things work so that interfaces will be sane and functions will make sense and be easily usable; thereby requiring little or no documentation.
The developer feels he is entitled to having every aspect of the application work the way he wants because he is writing sourcecode. Developers often feel they are the show and everything else revolves around the part of the puzzle they create. They ignore the fact that there is no such thing as a complete puzzle with missing pieces.
The fact is that no application can be successful without a balance between the needs of developers, documentation writers, and users.
If the developers have everything their way the app will be undocumented, and nobody will use it. Possibly it won't even be finished because an unpopular project draws no other developers to help.
If the documentation writers get their way entirely the software will not have the capabilities advanced users need and be tedious for developers to write.
And of course, it is simply impossible for the users to have everything their way because the users all disagree. But, popular requests from users must be heeded for software to be successful, useful, and tested enough to be stable.
I didn't mean you were intentionally misleading. I meant the article was intentionally misleading.
It makes for a more interesting headline if they can imply the fix won't be out for months and neglect to mention the bug was only reported Sunday.
To be honest this "exploit" doesn't work on any firefox browser I have been able to try it on, nor does it work for anyone else I have had test it. Whether there will be a fix likely depends on whether or not the problem is real.
Killing off the dumb, weak, and defective results in a stronger genepool tomorrow. Even if you don't believe in evolution, selection is solidly proven. We engage in selection with crops and cattle consistantly with immense proven success over the course of centuries. Plants and even show dogs have benefited from selection. There is no reason to believe it would be any less successful in human animals.
Reduction in population is a moot point. Humans no longer have successful predators and our population will only continue to grow out of control. As a species the death of even a billion of the stupid and weak would only server to strengthen us and have no significant impact on our population.
"The only objective measure for the success of the human race is its population. The socialist governemnt is best by that measure."
Nonesense. The only objective measure for the success of the human race is persistance. It doesn't matter how many of us there are so long as we are capable of surviving natural selection. Increased population is only one way of doing that.
Humans have a massive population unhibited population growth and base and are unlikely go extinct because there aren't enough of them to survive a catastrophe. At this point technical and intellectual progress seem far more likely to enable our species to continue.
For instance, the biggest weakness we have atm is that we can be destroyed by a disaster of planetary scale. I highly doubt we are going to breed our way off the planet. Breeding might provide the immediate motivation but intellect and vigorous health are the only things that will actually make doing so possible when the motivation becomes strong enough.
Yes but you don't have 6 word processers you've never heard of installed by default on windows. The start menu isn't 20 entries long and each of those has 15 sub-entries.
"The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources."
Developers are only a small part of the community and are not ranking members over anyone else. It is a developers elitist attitude that makes you assume that, please refer to the definition listed above that clearly demonstrates that being elitist has nothing to do with making demands.
The elitism the GP is referring to is spread across the entire community. That means Linux users, testers, documentation writers, technical writers, and all the classes of developers and maintainers and comment cleanerupers. None of these individuals have a right to feel they rank higher than any of the others.
And the community has no right to believe their tech savyness across the board makes them superior to those who have to struggle to figure out how to operate a mouse.
'It's normal that Linux users will disagree. That's why Linux is just a kernel, KDE/GNOME are just desktop environments, and the GNU System is just a collection of Unix utilities. It's so the end distributions can build the OS necessary to meet their users. But such a design DOES NOT require that users berate each other! Rather, Linux users should understand that "idiot" users using an "idiot" distribution is okay. Gentoo users can still recompile Gentoo to their hearts content even though Ubuntu exists. Ubuntu users can still use Ubuntu workstations even though Fedora exists. Fedora users can still a have 100% "Free as in socks and gun ownership" OS even though SuSE exists.'
It should read (with changed words in all caps):
It's normal that Linux users will disagree. That's why Linux is just an OS, KDE/GNOME are just desktop environments, and the GNU System is just a collection of Unix utilities. It's so the end VENDORS can build the DISTRIBUTION necessary to meet their users NEEDS. But such a design DOES NOT require that users berate each other! Rather, Linux users should understand that "idiot" users using an "idiot" distribution is okay. Gentoo users can still recompile Gentoo to their hearts content even though Ubuntu exists. Ubuntu users can still use Ubuntu workstations even though Fedora exists. Fedora users can still a have 100% "Free as in socks and gun ownership" DISTRIBUTION even though SuSE exists.
So far I haven't found anyone able to reproduce the "bug" the bunk urls just redirect to a google search (with an even longer url that still doesn't crash the browser).
Your peers have reported Firefox 1.0.6 on win2k, winXP, and Linux all having no problem with the url used in the bug report. This thing is bunk.
This guy also only reported the flaw to the Mozilla Foundation Sunday, he is just glory hunting by going to the press.
Last I checked 99.9% of all pop clients that have more than 5 users auto-delete mail from the server after a period of time or delete it immediately upon retrieval.
There are those who pipe up and call loudly about anything sounding like a restriction. And then there are the BSD license nuts who are mostly on Microsoft's payroll and paid to make enough noise on slashdot that developers who lurk here slowly warm to their ideas as they sound more and more like groupspeak (inate herd mentality).
But, this restriction is there for the same purpose as the first. DRM and software patents are both technology that undermine the license. If I release code under the GPL but patent concepts in that code, I have successfully poisoned the code. Anyone who actually utilizes the freedoms of the GPL has violated my patent.
The problem becomes more obvious when I contribute patented code to a GPL'd program or my derivative of a GPL'd program. That could prevent the original author from being able to merge my changes back.
Please remember guys, the motives behind a push to allow software patents, drm, and non-open derivatives comes from those who leech from the community or want to circumvent the spirit of free exchange.
Of course, the tax thing is silly. Actually there were artists, musicians, and actors before there were even copyrights. They performed and created their art because they *gasp* enjoyed doing so. If they made a living from their work it was because they found a patron. I dunno about you, but I don't think the change in motivation for artists to cash from love of art has really improved the quality of those materials. YMMV.
i think the mistake your making is to assume that the money going into wow would be going into other games.
Your typical "gamer" makes up a rather small portion of the mmorpg gaming community. I'd venture that most FPS players do not play wow and that most wow players have never spent a significant amount of time playing a FPS.
For other mmog's perhaps, but wow is not just a mmog it is a mmorpg and the players are more rpg'ers than g'ers.
I know a huge number of AD&D players who have moved to mmorpg's drawn to the concept of a 3d game where they can have real group play without a script OR anyone having to give up play to DM.
"In anything, from business to the arts to sports, there's going to be a top 5%. And a bottom 5%. And everything in between."
Sure but your point is kind of lost on the fact that 90% of the worlds wealth rests with the top 5%. The issue is not that there is someone on top, the issue that there is almost no middle class, a small but extremely elite upper class and a massive and increasingly poor lower class.
"As to the "drones", that's my nickname for those guys who, in school, thought it was smart to skip class and mastered instead in high-school football. Guess what? Actions have consequences."
Really? Most of the people I know working in factories either have degrees or could not afford to go to college because they are not from a wealthy family or a minority. There are a few stragglers who wasted life away but most of the rest simply had some other ambition in life that trumped making as much money as possible.
Slashdot Mirror
That's cool. The last ie update fixed bugs found 2 years ago.
This is a pretty serious troll. There is no install on windows, install shield or otherwise that you can install with a double click. The double-click starts the installer, then you answer a series of questions. Afterward, you configure the app manually.
On linux you apt-get install app or select it and then click install in synaptic. Then configure the app manually. For many things you can simply run appname-configure afterward to configure.
In case you haven't noticed, the processes are mostly the same, except that linux does not require you to answer the string of questions.
"It's the dumb user that's vulnerable, not the OS. That's equally as true for Windows as it is for Linux."
Your right except for this part. Although there are no shortage of dumb user exploits in windows, there are no shortage of OS exploits either. In linux dumb users are vulnerable. In windows dumb users AND the OS are vulnerable.
Math IS logic and vice versa. Folks may think of a subset of logic when you say the word math, but in reality math is all logic and vice versa.
A computer is just that, a calculator. It doesn't matter how much you abstract it, a computer is incapable of doing anything other than math.
You do realize that math is no more or less than the process of abstracting object physical data into a form that can be manipulated in said abstract form? So long as the operations on the abstract form remain consistant with reality, it is still math.
Moving objects on a list IS inheriently mathmatical. It became mathmatical the moment you abstracted the physical into an abstract list. The moving part is simply a mathmatical operation.
The numbers shown actually indicate that firefox has superior security development work done.
Both browsers have exploits of course, the Mozilla team is actually finding and eliminating more of theirs.
Giving the number of bugs found is one of the favorite sources of fud for proprietary vendor supporters wanting to claim to be as secure as open source. Open source development models find and eliminating a far greater number of vulnerabilities and ADMIT to all of them. That hardly makes them less secure.
On that point I couldn't agree more.
My view is perfectly in line with the definition YOU posted.
We have established that elitism is feeling that one is superior and entitled to something (like knowledge, one's way, etc) because of that superority. I have demonstrated how that criteria is met in the circumstances under discussion.
This would be the point where you either demonstrate that something I have said is inaccurate and therefore fails to meet the definition or attack the point from another angle besides the dictionary. Either way, pointing to the same definition I have accepted in the past few posts and has never been contrary to anything I have said is not going to get us anywhere.
I doubt it. Anytime something pushes for open standards but not open source they are really pushing for technologies BASED on open standards. This means Microsoft has been there.
For instance, Microsoft claims that because MSXML is based on XML it is using an open standard. Or because Active directory is based on LDAP and Kerberos that it is using open standards. The Microsoft version is entirely proprietary but politicians and CTO's miss that point.
http://www.moller.com/skycar/
:)
http://www.volanteaircraft.com/
Just google "flying car"
"The whole point, which you completely missed, is that the elitism the GP is referring to DOES NOT EXIST. None of these individuals is attempting to subjugate other people on the basis of their tech savyness."
The whole point, which you completely missed is that nobody has to attempt to subjugate other people for the elitism to exist.
Simply feeling superior is elitism. You can be elitist without ever interacting with another human being.
"To sum up: the word does not mean what you think it does. Arrogance only meets the definition of elitism when the feeling of superiority is paired with a sense of increased entitlement, and that definition does not accurately describe this community."
To sum it up, the word means exactly what I think it does. Believe it or not you are not bearing a torch and enlightening the ignorant here.
When joeblow asks techgod for help and techgod tells to leave him alone it may or may not be elitist. If techgod told joeblow to leave him alone because he believed that joeblow was too stupid to help, not skilled enough to help, or not worthy of his help; that is elitist. On the other hand, if techgod tells joeblow to leave him alone because techgod only helps friends or those who pay him that is not elitist.
Anytime a community denies entry it is a form of elitism. The members of the community have a sense of entitlement to the benifits of said community because they are superior in whatever aspect they used as grounds for denial of entry.
When you refuse to share knowledge that would allow someone to use Linux because they are a lamer you are declaring that they are not worthy to join the community you yourself are a part of. You are saying that you are entitled to the knowledge because you have what it takes and they are not because they are a lamer.
The whole developer, doc writer, and user scenerio is another issue but elitism exists in EVERY class involved there as well.
The user is the one who actually has to work with the software everyday and feels he is entitled to the functionality he needs.
The documentation writer is the one who has to explain to users of all technical expertise levels how things work in a sane manner. Therefore he believes HE should dictate how things work so that interfaces will be sane and functions will make sense and be easily usable; thereby requiring little or no documentation.
The developer feels he is entitled to having every aspect of the application work the way he wants because he is writing sourcecode. Developers often feel they are the show and everything else revolves around the part of the puzzle they create. They ignore the fact that there is no such thing as a complete puzzle with missing pieces.
The fact is that no application can be successful without a balance between the needs of developers, documentation writers, and users.
If the developers have everything their way the app will be undocumented, and nobody will use it. Possibly it won't even be finished because an unpopular project draws no other developers to help.
If the documentation writers get their way entirely the software will not have the capabilities advanced users need and be tedious for developers to write.
And of course, it is simply impossible for the users to have everything their way because the users all disagree. But, popular requests from users must be heeded for software to be successful, useful, and tested enough to be stable.
I didn't mean you were intentionally misleading. I meant the article was intentionally misleading.
It makes for a more interesting headline if they can imply the fix won't be out for months and neglect to mention the bug was only reported Sunday.
To be honest this "exploit" doesn't work on any firefox browser I have been able to try it on, nor does it work for anyone else I have had test it. Whether there will be a fix likely depends on whether or not the problem is real.
Killing off the dumb, weak, and defective results in a stronger genepool tomorrow. Even if you don't believe in evolution, selection is solidly proven. We engage in selection with crops and cattle consistantly with immense proven success over the course of centuries. Plants and even show dogs have benefited from selection. There is no reason to believe it would be any less successful in human animals.
Reduction in population is a moot point. Humans no longer have successful predators and our population will only continue to grow out of control. As a species the death of even a billion of the stupid and weak would only server to strengthen us and have no significant impact on our population.
"The only objective measure for the success of the human race is its population. The socialist governemnt is best by that measure."
Nonesense. The only objective measure for the success of the human race is persistance. It doesn't matter how many of us there are so long as we are capable of surviving natural selection. Increased population is only one way of doing that.
Humans have a massive population unhibited population growth and base and are unlikely go extinct because there aren't enough of them to survive a catastrophe. At this point technical and intellectual progress seem far more likely to enable our species to continue.
For instance, the biggest weakness we have atm is that we can be destroyed by a disaster of planetary scale. I highly doubt we are going to breed our way off the planet. Breeding might provide the immediate motivation but intellect and vigorous health are the only things that will actually make doing so possible when the motivation becomes strong enough.
Last I checked we have flying cars already. Some people have simply figured out that they were actually a BAD idea.
Yes but you don't have 6 word processers you've never heard of installed by default on windows. The start menu isn't 20 entries long and each of those has 15 sub-entries.
You're both wrong. Linux is a kernel and a kernel is an OS. What you are both referring to as an OS is actually an OS distribution.
The whole misconception is due to vendors that sell distributions and refer to them as OSes because the two are never seperated (Windows, MacOS, etc).
For instance, loading Bash and GNU utils does not transform solaris into a different OS. The OS interacts with the hardware, not the user.
"The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources."
Developers are only a small part of the community and are not ranking members over anyone else. It is a developers elitist attitude that makes you assume that, please refer to the definition listed above that clearly demonstrates that being elitist has nothing to do with making demands.
The elitism the GP is referring to is spread across the entire community. That means Linux users, testers, documentation writers, technical writers, and all the classes of developers and maintainers and comment cleanerupers. None of these individuals have a right to feel they rank higher than any of the others.
And the community has no right to believe their tech savyness across the board makes them superior to those who have to struggle to figure out how to operate a mouse.
Minor anal correction.
Instead of:
'It's normal that Linux users will disagree. That's why Linux is just a kernel, KDE/GNOME are just desktop environments, and the GNU System is just a collection of Unix utilities. It's so the end distributions can build the OS necessary to meet their users. But such a design DOES NOT require that users berate each other! Rather, Linux users should understand that "idiot" users using an "idiot" distribution is okay. Gentoo users can still recompile Gentoo to their hearts content even though Ubuntu exists. Ubuntu users can still use Ubuntu workstations even though Fedora exists. Fedora users can still a have 100% "Free as in socks and gun ownership" OS even though SuSE exists.'
It should read (with changed words in all caps):
It's normal that Linux users will disagree. That's why Linux is just an OS, KDE/GNOME are just desktop environments, and the GNU System is just a collection of Unix utilities. It's so the end VENDORS can build the DISTRIBUTION necessary to meet their users NEEDS. But such a design DOES NOT require that users berate each other! Rather, Linux users should understand that "idiot" users using an "idiot" distribution is okay. Gentoo users can still recompile Gentoo to their hearts content even though Ubuntu exists. Ubuntu users can still use Ubuntu workstations even though Fedora exists. Fedora users can still a have 100% "Free as in socks and gun ownership" DISTRIBUTION even though SuSE exists.
Does it even crash you? So far I haven't found anyone this actually crashes.
So far I haven't found anyone able to reproduce the "bug" the bunk urls just redirect to a google search (with an even longer url that still doesn't crash the browser).
Your peers have reported Firefox 1.0.6 on win2k, winXP, and Linux all having no problem with the url used in the bug report. This thing is bunk.
This guy also only reported the flaw to the Mozilla Foundation Sunday, he is just glory hunting by going to the press.
That comment was intentionally misleading. The next major update to the browser will be out at years end.
The security update that resolves this flaw will probably be out within a day or two.
Last I checked 99.9% of all pop clients that have more than 5 users auto-delete mail from the server after a period of time or delete it immediately upon retrieval.
IMAP on the other hand...
There are those who pipe up and call loudly about anything sounding like a restriction. And then there are the BSD license nuts who are mostly on Microsoft's payroll and paid to make enough noise on slashdot that developers who lurk here slowly warm to their ideas as they sound more and more like groupspeak (inate herd mentality).
But, this restriction is there for the same purpose as the first. DRM and software patents are both technology that undermine the license. If I release code under the GPL but patent concepts in that code, I have successfully poisoned the code. Anyone who actually utilizes the freedoms of the GPL has violated my patent.
The problem becomes more obvious when I contribute patented code to a GPL'd program or my derivative of a GPL'd program. That could prevent the original author from being able to merge my changes back.
Please remember guys, the motives behind a push to allow software patents, drm, and non-open derivatives comes from those who leech from the community or want to circumvent the spirit of free exchange.
Of course, the tax thing is silly. Actually there were artists, musicians, and actors before there were even copyrights. They performed and created their art because they *gasp* enjoyed doing so. If they made a living from their work it was because they found a patron. I dunno about you, but I don't think the change in motivation for artists to cash from love of art has really improved the quality of those materials. YMMV.
i think the mistake your making is to assume that the money going into wow would be going into other games.
Your typical "gamer" makes up a rather small portion of the mmorpg gaming community. I'd venture that most FPS players do not play wow and that most wow players have never spent a significant amount of time playing a FPS.
For other mmog's perhaps, but wow is not just a mmog it is a mmorpg and the players are more rpg'ers than g'ers.
I know a huge number of AD&D players who have moved to mmorpg's drawn to the concept of a 3d game where they can have real group play without a script OR anyone having to give up play to DM.
"In anything, from business to the arts to sports, there's going to be a top 5%. And a bottom 5%. And everything in between."
Sure but your point is kind of lost on the fact that 90% of the worlds wealth rests with the top 5%. The issue is not that there is someone on top, the issue that there is almost no middle class, a small but extremely elite upper class and a massive and increasingly poor lower class.
"As to the "drones", that's my nickname for those guys who, in school, thought it was smart to skip class and mastered instead in high-school football. Guess what? Actions have consequences."
Really? Most of the people I know working in factories either have degrees or could not afford to go to college because they are not from a wealthy family or a minority. There are a few stragglers who wasted life away but most of the rest simply had some other ambition in life that trumped making as much money as possible.