Yeah its sort of like what happened at xerox. All these wonderful things came out of R&D and management never really knew what to do with them. Technology only really leads a company like microsoft at the beginning of its life, and at the end of its life. Only when they are truly desperate. Right now I think they are burdened with their stake in legacy markets like Office and windows, where innovation must be made compatible with existing products, and must not create a product so successful that it disrupts there future revenue stream.
Could be sketchy on these details, but I remember hearing that they created a complete team within Microsoft to create an online version of Office from scratch. It was supposedly the greatest thing since sliced bread, but was ultimately killed because they didn't think they could make as much money with it as the legacy boxed office suite. I think one note might have came from that project, but thats a desktop app. So maybe it was only partially online, in any case I'm mostly sure it was a subscription based model.
Sorry, didn't think they would cut anyone off. Firefox 2 still works in win 98. I didn't think they would cut anyone off, as they never had before. At least they support win 2k.
Do we really have to support older versions of firefox? I mean some one at some point figured out how to download it, why can't they just do it again? Its not like IE where you can't upgrade the browser on some older Operating systems.
He asked optimistically, knowing full well some one will respond with at "because users are stupid, and we have to support their stupidity to maximize profits" response. Anyone with a different response, is welcome to offer it.
So Taco wants me to believe that: A) duke nukum might actually see the light of day B) ie 8 passes Acid 2
Its not april fools day, according to the snow outside. Is Taco trying to create another practical joke day: Dec 19?
Thats so awesomely random, but it sort of upstages my plans of trying to make Dec 20 th a joke day. Oh well pretended to be surprised when crazy things happen tomorrow as well.
Dude, If you're playing guitar to learn how to play other people songs... You're missing the point. The game version mimics the glory, while robbing the soul.
No, he said there are some paranoid people here "who rant about how U.S. is a fascist state and how Vista is the new 'evil'"
Thats true. That does not imply what that any criticism is paranoid. It is possible for a subject to be criticized legitimately by some people, and delusionaly by others. He's referring to those who always lose arguments due to godwin's law.
Now that is interesting. Thanks for explaining what you meant. For any project, you have to take a look at what technologies make sense to use to meet the requirements. It might make sense to use a web app internally, it might not. It might be more expensive, it might not. There are too many variables to state a priori what will be the best even for "specific business needs". IMHO. You could be right, I've worked on both. Web seems to be the way to go for the types of problems I've run into, dealing with small/medium sized companies.
Ok good point. There aren't any buzz words, I just meant I'm not familiar with your problem space. I think what you might have meant is something more understandable ( to me at least) such as " web apps are good at solving some problems, but not all". I don't think the generality of an application makes a difference, but I'm not sure our terminology is close enough to really agree on anything.
Its a good thing you're not trying to sell me anything or visa versa.
Sorry, I'm not buzzword compliant. I really don't know what the heck " specific business needs" are. I would think that they might involve collaboration amongst groups of widely distributed mobile people working on a common task. Or something like that.
Sure, whatever. Your claim is that by changing wikipedia articles tyou can change peoples opinions aobut a subject so widely reported on? Do people really get their news from wiki? I agree its propaganda, and shouldn't be going on, but theres no need to inflate what they were trying to do. I'm really getting sick of this news inflation. Just the facts. The word massive does not apply to this. Subtle might be a better word choice.
Japanese, on the other hand, seem to actually have been paying attention to events outside of the NY Stock Exchange, and spent considerable time and effort on technologies like the hybrid and in making their existing models even more efficient.
That sounds nice, but it isn't the case. They aren't under the same pressures of Detroit to succeed right now, because they already are succeeding right now. Huge difference. One area Detroit automakers are ahead of Japan is with the flex-fuel vehicles that run on a combination of Gas and ethanol. Currently Corn based ethanol is too expensive and is fraught with other problems, but eventually something like switch grass and other cellulose based ethanols will become very competitive. In fact we could have cheap ethanol from sugar cane grown in Brazil, but we have a huge tariffs on it for what ever political reason.
I'd say that 2006 was a combination of the dislike for the republicans as a party and as individuals. Many of the incumbants that lost were voted in during the 94 republican revolution when they all said they wanted smaller government, less pork,more accountability and term limits. In 2006 these idiots record was one of bridges to nowhere, huge deficits, major ethical lapses, and never left office when they said they would. Also, people didn't much care for the Iraq war. Politicians are like diapers, you really should change them often. I wish they would have been able to get some term limits written into the law books. We'd be a better country without the 50 years of strom thrumand or 30+ of Ted Kennedy.
Definitely. He's a charmer to a certain extent. I do hold him very highly in that regard. But part of it was that things he says are complete bald faced lies, and most people probably don't check resumes. He claims to have graduated for the University of Chicago with a law degree, he didn't. He flunked out after a semester of undergrad.
You don't know my step grandfather. He has never been described by anyone as a genius. Like I said the performance reviews were not pretty. He was fired for gross negligence. He talked his way into jobs, and was fired when they discovered he didn't know how to do 80% of what he said he could.
Yeah my step grandfather is like that. Old Cobol guy. A lot of time us geeks show reverence for those who came before us, as if they must have been gods themselves to work under such conditions. But, he was terrible. He saved everything from every job, including his performance reviews. He bounced around from job to job staying long enough to be fired. I guess people with any knowledge of computers were in demand. Don't get me wrong the creators of FORTRAN, UNIX, C, and the languages and tools were absolute geniuses, but there were complete screw ups too.
I think the real reason, is to avoid angry complaints when you have to spend more per point the fewer points you'd buy. If they just passed the transaction costs on to the user, it would get wierd. I don't use box so these values are fictitious, but you could end up spending a buck on 50 points or 1,000 points for $10. It would look like they were ripping you off, and there would be a sliding scale if you could specify the number of points you bought. probably not worth the customer complaints of curious pricing. And yes it also makes them more money.
A joke perhaps, but the companies that designed them are based in the US. Thats why they were so quick to say they didn't intentionally send them the parts.
If you are talking about designing an app from scrap, I'd agree sort of. yes everyone knows early optimizations, without a proper understanding of the problem space is a disaster waiting to happen. If we are talking about designing a data driven application, you should have a good idea of the relative sizes of the tables. You do a little prototyping and usage senarios with an eye towards growth. Its easier to abstract the complexity of the data design early in the applications design, rather than later.
Just curious: why isn't performance even mentioned in this thread? It should be a tradeoff between (application code complexity, normalization, and performance). Choose the most important one and design accordingly, sacrificing the others only when necessary.
Yeah, I do too. I think its very worthwhile for anyone in IT to actually build circuits from time to time, just to understand how. I understand the criticism you're making and its somewhat valid. I'm not trying to espouse the Not invented here syndrome. You have to make a real world decision in every non trivial application what existing tools can be used, and which ones will have to be created. I like the idea of libraries, and thats what I think a good "framework" should be. Sort of a scaffolding, where there is a well defined interface between components, allowing you to easily replace part of the "framework" with a different one, without introducing any bad hacks, and allowing all of the logically distinct parts of the "framework" to continue working with your replacement part.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah its sort of like what happened at xerox. All these wonderful things came out of R&D and management never really knew what to do with them. Technology only really leads a company like microsoft at the beginning of its life, and at the end of its life. Only when they are truly desperate. Right now I think they are burdened with their stake in legacy markets like Office and windows, where innovation must be made compatible with existing products, and must not create a product so successful that it disrupts there future revenue stream.
Could be sketchy on these details, but I remember hearing that they created a complete team within Microsoft to create an online version of Office from scratch. It was supposedly the greatest thing since sliced bread, but was ultimately killed because they didn't think they could make as much money with it as the legacy boxed office suite. I think one note might have came from that project, but thats a desktop app. So maybe it was only partially online, in any case I'm mostly sure it was a subscription based model.
Sorry, didn't think they would cut anyone off. Firefox 2 still works in win 98. I didn't think they would cut anyone off, as they never had before. At least they support win 2k.
Do we really have to support older versions of firefox? I mean some one at some point figured out how to download it, why can't they just do it again? Its not like IE where you can't upgrade the browser on some older Operating systems.
He asked optimistically, knowing full well some one will respond with at "because users are stupid, and we have to support their stupidity to maximize profits" response. Anyone with a different response, is welcome to offer it.
So Taco wants me to believe that:
A) duke nukum might actually see the light of day
B) ie 8 passes Acid 2
Its not april fools day, according to the snow outside. Is Taco trying to create another practical joke day: Dec 19?
Thats so awesomely random, but it sort of upstages my plans of trying to make Dec 20 th a joke day. Oh well pretended to be surprised when crazy things happen tomorrow as well.
total chaos, due to the lack of rigour and standards
The industry tried using rigor and standards, but abandoned them due to their insecure nature.
Dude, If you're playing guitar to learn how to play other people songs... You're missing the point. The game version mimics the glory, while robbing the soul.
No.. Young grasshopper. The best games are those without any objectives at all.
No, he said there are some paranoid people here "who rant about how U.S. is a fascist state and how Vista is the new 'evil'"
Thats true. That does not imply what that any criticism is paranoid. It is possible for a subject to be criticized legitimately by some people, and delusionaly by others. He's referring to those who always lose arguments due to godwin's law.
Now that is interesting. Thanks for explaining what you meant. For any project, you have to take a look at what technologies make sense to use to meet the requirements. It might make sense to use a web app internally, it might not. It might be more expensive, it might not. There are too many variables to state a priori what will be the best even for "specific business needs". IMHO. You could be right, I've worked on both. Web seems to be the way to go for the types of problems I've run into, dealing with small/medium sized companies.
Ok good point. There aren't any buzz words, I just meant I'm not familiar with your problem space. I think what you might have meant is something more understandable ( to me at least) such as " web apps are good at solving some problems, but not all". I don't think the generality of an application makes a difference, but I'm not sure our terminology is close enough to really agree on anything.
Its a good thing you're not trying to sell me anything or visa versa.
Sorry, I'm not buzzword compliant. I really don't know what the heck " specific business needs" are. I would think that they might involve collaboration amongst groups of widely distributed mobile people working on a common task. Or something like that.
No advantage to web apps?!? Then why didn't you just write this post as a word document, and email it to us?
Sure, whatever. Your claim is that by changing wikipedia articles tyou can change peoples opinions aobut a subject so widely reported on? Do people really get their news from wiki? I agree its propaganda, and shouldn't be going on, but theres no need to inflate what they were trying to do. I'm really getting sick of this news inflation. Just the facts. The word massive does not apply to this. Subtle might be a better word choice.
Japanese, on the other hand, seem to actually have been paying attention to events outside of the NY Stock Exchange, and spent considerable time and effort on technologies like the hybrid and in making their existing models even more efficient.
That sounds nice, but it isn't the case. They aren't under the same pressures of Detroit to succeed right now, because they already are succeeding right now. Huge difference. One area Detroit automakers are ahead of Japan is with the flex-fuel vehicles that run on a combination of Gas and ethanol. Currently Corn based ethanol is too expensive and is fraught with other problems, but eventually something like switch grass and other cellulose based ethanols will become very competitive. In fact we could have cheap ethanol from sugar cane grown in Brazil, but we have a huge tariffs on it for what ever political reason.
That *is* my passphrase, You insensitive Clod!
I'd say that 2006 was a combination of the dislike for the republicans as a party and as individuals. Many of the incumbants that lost were voted in during the 94 republican revolution when they all said they wanted smaller government, less pork,more accountability and term limits. In 2006 these idiots record was one of bridges to nowhere, huge deficits, major ethical lapses, and never left office when they said they would. Also, people didn't much care for the Iraq war. Politicians are like diapers, you really should change them often. I wish they would have been able to get some term limits written into the law books. We'd be a better country without the 50 years of strom thrumand or 30+ of Ted Kennedy.
Definitely. He's a charmer to a certain extent. I do hold him very highly in that regard. But part of it was that things he says are complete bald faced lies, and most people probably don't check resumes. He claims to have graduated for the University of Chicago with a law degree, he didn't. He flunked out after a semester of undergrad.
You don't know my step grandfather. He has never been described by anyone as a genius. Like I said the performance reviews were not pretty. He was fired for gross negligence. He talked his way into jobs, and was fired when they discovered he didn't know how to do 80% of what he said he could.
Yeah my step grandfather is like that. Old Cobol guy. A lot of time us geeks show reverence for those who came before us, as if they must have been gods themselves to work under such conditions. But, he was terrible. He saved everything from every job, including his performance reviews. He bounced around from job to job staying long enough to be fired. I guess people with any knowledge of computers were in demand. Don't get me wrong the creators of FORTRAN, UNIX, C, and the languages and tools were absolute geniuses, but there were complete screw ups too.
Thats why you eat a couple double dogs( 2 dogs 1 bun).
I think the real reason, is to avoid angry complaints when you have to spend more per point the fewer points you'd buy. If they just passed the transaction costs on to the user, it would get wierd. I don't use box so these values are fictitious, but you could end up spending a buck on 50 points or 1,000 points for $10. It would look like they were ripping you off, and there would be a sliding scale if you could specify the number of points you bought. probably not worth the customer complaints of curious pricing. And yes it also makes them more money.
A joke perhaps, but the companies that designed them are based in the US. Thats why they were so quick to say they didn't intentionally send them the parts.
If you are talking about designing an app from scrap, I'd agree sort of. yes everyone knows early optimizations, without a proper understanding of the problem space is a disaster waiting to happen. If we are talking about designing a data driven application, you should have a good idea of the relative sizes of the tables. You do a little prototyping and usage senarios with an eye towards growth. Its easier to abstract the complexity of the data design early in the applications design, rather than later.
Just curious: why isn't performance even mentioned in this thread? It should be a tradeoff between (application code complexity, normalization, and performance). Choose the most important one and design accordingly, sacrificing the others only when necessary.
Yeah, I do too. I think its very worthwhile for anyone in IT to actually build circuits from time to time, just to understand how. I understand the criticism you're making and its somewhat valid. I'm not trying to espouse the Not invented here syndrome. You have to make a real world decision in every non trivial application what existing tools can be used, and which ones will have to be created. I like the idea of libraries, and thats what I think a good "framework" should be. Sort of a scaffolding, where there is a well defined interface between components, allowing you to easily replace part of the "framework" with a different one, without introducing any bad hacks, and allowing all of the logically distinct parts of the "framework" to continue working with your replacement part.