Reread Genesis; it was the Tree of Knowledge of Right and Wrong that they ate from.
Dude, you forgot to point out that Knowledge was Adam and Eve's downfall! Had they remained ignorant, they would have been just fine. So it stands to reason, based on this story, that you must be ignorant (although not necessarily stupid) to believe in God, because upon educating yourself you will fall from grace and have to redeem yourself. If losing god is the price of education, give me more knowledge, I want to know more.
*clicks on the "Would you like to know more?" link*
If this is true then all Lucifer has to do is return and God will welcome him back and kill the fatted calf, right? I mean, that's the right thing to do according to that Prodigal Son story christianity taught me.
"If you leave now save them you can. But, you will have destroyed all for which they have fought and suffered."
I always thought Yoda was more credible than Jesus.;)
I also really like the Taoist idea that in order to create good you must create evil, or else your good won't have any definition. Well I'm in my biggest flamebaiting mood I like to deliver that definition in the midst of a discussion of Jesus, because it turns Jesus into an evil man.;)
Almost all responses from christians on slashdot are laced with carefully guarded qualifiers that they are expressing their own beliefs, or that is their religion.
You know, it's been my growing feeling that the whole idea of "you have to respect it because it's what I believe" is more of a problem than a solution. Really. I don't have any problem with tolerance or anything, but I really don't see why I should respect someone's "belief" that they hold "so dearly". Where I come from, a spade is a spade, and we're not afraid to say so. (Of course, where I come from there is also a strong spark of fundamentalism, ref George W. Bush)
Re:Why go into a building, even a virtual one?
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It's confusing that you pretend to belong to a religion of human sacrifice which was exterminated about 1,800 years ago. I would suspect also that you don't know the etymological derivation of the word 'pagan'.
Perhaps you're unaware that the Jews originally committed 'human sacrifice' as well, and it's well-documented in the Bible. Also interesting that you consider the extermination of a religion to be a Good Thing. Do you enjoy your religious freedom, by any chance?
Most of those weird pagan religions are as benign as Christianity, if not more so. I suspect you go and find information on them that comes from outside of your church. In the meantime, I recommend that if you truly believe in the Word of Christ, you judge not. Let him who is without guilt toss the first stone, and so forth.
You call that a choice? I don't know what's more disturbing, the fact that you honestly offered that as a choice, or the fact that you fail to see how it's not a choice. You may as well hold a gun up to my head and tell me to suck your dick or you'll kill me. I'll have the same semantic choice, right? Two options, right? That's enough of a choice.
See, I've learned two valuable things about religion over the years. First, in order to argue whether or not any religion is Truth, I can't change the platform. So I can't start citing scientific evidence to the contrary of religion because it will be assimilated into the religion itself. Second, even if I defeat the religion on its own terms, whoever I'm talking to will still persist that what they're offering is Truth, Justice, and the Way of Their God. So I've concluded, based on this evidence of my own, that faith raises an exception in well-written code and Microsoft wrote the Bible.
Re:That is what is worrying about fundamentalists.
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There is no 'redemption ranking.' We are either saved or we aren't.
Aha.
typdef Redemption_Ranking bool;
When you say that my statement is 'socially invasive,'
Before you said that, you said this:
however we are commanded by Jesus to go and tell others of their need to repent
I think the statement of social invasiveness is properly demonstrated.
Reading Romans 12, Corinthians and Philippians for just a few passages on how we should be spending our time.
I seem to recall Corinthians having a number of passages dedicated to how men should keep their hair cut and not wear hats and women should keep their heads covered, or not cut their hair.
Our first priority should be God
Then,
Given how much time we spend with other people and not even thinking about God during the week,
Followed by,
We should be looking to have God involved in every aspect of our lives and embrace that
Are you sure you've got your priorities straight? I mean, if you're looking to have God involved in every aspect of your life, then why is it considered reasonable to spend all kinds of time during the week with other people and not thinking about God at all? On the other hand, if you are thinking about God all through the week, then church is just redundant, and therefore unnecessary, isn't it? So what is it?
Not to mention that Judgement Day will come without announcement, and so forth, and you must be in a state of grace at that exact moment or you're not going with Him, so you can't afford not to think about God all the time. He could be there right now waiting for you to sin so he can call up judgement day and send you to your eternal tormentor. Repent now, before it's too late! Brother, I fear for your soul. I really do.
Dictatorship? Fear-mongering? Control Freak? If He was any of those things, He wouldn't have given you a choice to worship something other than Himself.
Worship Me or go to hell? You must be using some definition of "choice" with which I am unfamiliar.
Re:Do Anglicans believe in transubstantiation?
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The Anglican Communion is Communion of people reenacting the last supper symbolically
That looks like a fancy way of saying "symbolic cannibalism". I certainly don't want people eating bread and pretending it's my flesh...
Re:Not the same as going to church...
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I don't think the Church of Fools is supposed to be a replacement for church, more a place where people who don't go to church can explore it, and take their interest further if they like.
Heh, that was pretty entertaining. Let's do this one too.;)
The story goes that in the beginning there was this guy, God, up in his Heaven. Or maybe he made Heaven and then occupied it. With his angels. And one of his angels, name of Lucifer, iirc, had a serious disagreement over how God was running things. Now, we don't know the nature of the disagreement, mind you. We only know that there was one, and that Lucifer built up some followers.
We also know that Lucifer was Jesus's brother, and therefore God's son. Or at least his stepson.
So God, Lucifer's loving father, kicks Lucifer right out. And that's not good enough! Nononono, he sends him down to a lake of fire, to, well, I don't know what to do. But he punishes his son by kicking him out of the house! What a system or morality he's got, really.
Then, later on, he realizes he screwed up (in spite of the fact that "God doesn't make mistakes") and he has to learn about the "human condition" that he created. To do so he possesses his Son, Jesus, and forces himself/son/ghost to endure being a fetus, a baby, and growing up, and living in the human condition, so that he can commit symbolic cannibalism right before being executed (blood of christ, body of christ, etc, right?). So now he's chosen his favorite Son, and possessed him! Of course, because Jesus wasn't competent enough to do the job without being possessed by his almighty.
So, God tosses out his son (or step-son) for having a disagreement of some sort, doesn't tell us what it was actually about, censors the poor guy so he can't tell us about it, then picks his favorite son of them all in order to build a religion based on never finding out what the War in Heaven was about.
IF that's not the character of a megalomiac fascist dictator, I don't know what is. But it's obvious what model Hitler was copying. (Am I invoking Godwin's Law? Wait, I can't, can I?;) )
It does seem to be a form of Pascal's Wager. I say it's safe to believe in God because if I'm right, good, and if not, well nothing lost. But then you say, "but by worshiping this one God you may offend another."
Heh, chew on this.
Why should I waste my time trying to be right and good according to God's dictatorship? Why would I subject myself to His Holy Fascism? Knowing the kind of attention-grubbing fear-mongering this "God" does, and how much of a control freak He really is, why would I even want to look at Heaven, let alone enter it?
Man, I'm buying a gun, so when Jesus comes along I can put him in his place. Those Romans must've done something wrong. Judgement Day my ass, I'll be fighting for Freedom on that day. Mine and yours, buddy. It's the only fight worth winning.
That's great, but would I wind up in federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prison? I mean, come one, let's worry about realistic consequences.
Re:That is what is worrying about fundamentalists.
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Assuming you meant "And how is spending", your entire statement is socially invasive. I've always been under the impression that your relationship with God is a personal thing, and your current redemption ranking is your own business, and that the purpose of church was to network with other like-minded people.
Same reason we have support groups for drug addictions, only the purpose of those groups is to *stop* the addiction.
Man, let that day come soon. I've got some pretty old speakers here that could use a new set of cones.
Er, mm. That isn't what you meant?
In other news, I hear that RMS was demanding this software used be GPL so he could finally hold the first online service of the Church of Emacs. Unfortunately, the only real result of this was that all the Seventh Day Vi-ists rioted, tearing up convenience stores, software shops, and leaving little pieces of paper all over the place that said ":q!". Police reported one arrest in all, some bozo in LA wearing a tie and ripping up notepads in Albertson's. RMS called it "a sad day for text-editor-based religions. He called for everyone to 'just get along and use Emacs'." Then someone purportedly from the Xemacs sect sued him personally for asking people to 'get along', saying that "people shouldn't ask for unreasonable things". The court case is waiting to be tried, but the defense attorney was noted as saying "it'll be a hard case to crack, even though emacs is obviously the superior platform for developers and is the operating system that will render Windows unusable."
I don't know what Jesus would do, but most Catholics would show up at a real church since communion is a big part of church.
Hey man, think how cool this communion could be, though.
Blood of christ, blahblahblah
*shot of firewater* Hmm, need more of that. *another shot of firewater*
Body of christ, blahblahblah
*bite of steak* Hmm, need more of that. I need all the saving I can get. *another bite of steak* Forget that, I'll just eat the whole body. And more of that blood stuff, that was pretty hot. Whew!
Hmmm, looks like the sermon's about the sins of alcohol. Good thing I only drink alcohol during Holy Communion. *hic* Next time I'll try beer, I've always wondered what that tasted like.
Man, jesus did come back, didn't you hear? He showed up and realized he would never be able to pwn mankind, threw his arms up in frustration, and left. Last I heard, he was arguing with his dad over whether or not to pull judgement day so they could start over and not make the same mistake again. I seem to recall his argument centered around "trying the same thing and expecting different results" or something like that.
Last time I was in a church, I felt pretty threatened. It was several years ago, I was there with my girlfriend, and a bunch of people knew I was an atheist. The looks they gave me were not at all "non threatening."
Heh, you should've seen the looks I got during my sister-in-law's sending off. It was a mormon service, and she was going to Argentina on a mission, and she wanted my wife and I to be there. When they passed around communion (not to mention I was sorely underdressed for this "casual" ceremony. I guess "We came, we saw, we fuckin' stomped" wasn't casual enough for them) I passed, figuring I didn't want to take part in any symbolic cannibalism. (nobody asked, but I'm sure I would have had an appropriate response if they had) Man, if looks could kill I never would've made it out of that room. Heh.
Disclaimer: I am an atheist. I really don't get this thing at all.
Heh, I can't help but think that this development signals a new wave of evangelists. I'm sure Suicidal Tendencies will do a song about this, eventually.;)
Welcome to, the church of suicidal
You're a cartoon character with a wonderful bubble
But before we go on, there is something I must mention
An important message I must bring to your attention
I was in my virtual meditation last night
I was awoken by a shining bright light
In front of me on the computer screen
God showed up and his character was green
He said to
Seeeeeeeeend me your money
That's what he said, he said to
Seeeeeeeeend me your money
Hey dude, are you involved with the ralphdontrun.net site itself? I'm asking because I couldn't help but notice it requires flash, and it seems to me like requiring a flash plugin on a political site is just like requiring a turbo-charger at the grocery store. I couldn't read the site, but I was interested enough to click on your link.
This came across the Hydrogen list awhile back. Enjoy!;)
Your credit card will be billed at $22.95 weekly and free 3 pack of child
porn CD is shipping to your billing address. To cancel your membership
and CD pack please email full credit card details to
abuse@theplanet.com Ready to enjoy all types of underage
porn? We have the best selection for every taste! Click the secret link
below and have fun... www.shadowfamily.com
Man, take your grey, dried out, tough ribeye and stick it. I'll take a nice, bleeding T-bone. Just chase the cow through the kitchen, that's about right.
Slashdot Mirror
Reread Genesis; it was the Tree of Knowledge of Right and Wrong that they ate from.
Dude, you forgot to point out that Knowledge was Adam and Eve's downfall! Had they remained ignorant, they would have been just fine. So it stands to reason, based on this story, that you must be ignorant (although not necessarily stupid) to believe in God, because upon educating yourself you will fall from grace and have to redeem yourself. If losing god is the price of education, give me more knowledge, I want to know more.
*clicks on the "Would you like to know more?" link*
If this is true then all Lucifer has to do is return and God will welcome him back and kill the fatted calf, right? I mean, that's the right thing to do according to that Prodigal Son story christianity taught me.
"If you leave now save them you can. But, you will have destroyed all for which they have fought and suffered."
I always thought Yoda was more credible than Jesus. ;)
I also really like the Taoist idea that in order to create good you must create evil, or else your good won't have any definition. Well I'm in my biggest flamebaiting mood I like to deliver that definition in the midst of a discussion of Jesus, because it turns Jesus into an evil man. ;)
Almost all responses from christians on slashdot are laced with carefully guarded qualifiers that they are expressing their own beliefs, or that is their religion.
You know, it's been my growing feeling that the whole idea of "you have to respect it because it's what I believe" is more of a problem than a solution. Really. I don't have any problem with tolerance or anything, but I really don't see why I should respect someone's "belief" that they hold "so dearly". Where I come from, a spade is a spade, and we're not afraid to say so. (Of course, where I come from there is also a strong spark of fundamentalism, ref George W. Bush)
It's confusing that you pretend to belong to a religion of human sacrifice which was exterminated about 1,800 years ago. I would suspect also that you don't know the etymological derivation of the word 'pagan'.
Perhaps you're unaware that the Jews originally committed 'human sacrifice' as well, and it's well-documented in the Bible. Also interesting that you consider the extermination of a religion to be a Good Thing. Do you enjoy your religious freedom, by any chance?
Most of those weird pagan religions are as benign as Christianity, if not more so. I suspect you go and find information on them that comes from outside of your church. In the meantime, I recommend that if you truly believe in the Word of Christ, you judge not. Let him who is without guilt toss the first stone, and so forth.
You call that a choice? I don't know what's more disturbing, the fact that you honestly offered that as a choice, or the fact that you fail to see how it's not a choice. You may as well hold a gun up to my head and tell me to suck your dick or you'll kill me. I'll have the same semantic choice, right? Two options, right? That's enough of a choice.
See, I've learned two valuable things about religion over the years. First, in order to argue whether or not any religion is Truth, I can't change the platform. So I can't start citing scientific evidence to the contrary of religion because it will be assimilated into the religion itself. Second, even if I defeat the religion on its own terms, whoever I'm talking to will still persist that what they're offering is Truth, Justice, and the Way of Their God. So I've concluded, based on this evidence of my own, that faith raises an exception in well-written code and Microsoft wrote the Bible.
There is no 'redemption ranking.' We are either saved or we aren't.
Aha.
When you say that my statement is 'socially invasive,'
Before you said that, you said this:
however we are commanded by Jesus to go and tell others of their need to repent
I think the statement of social invasiveness is properly demonstrated.
Reading Romans 12, Corinthians and Philippians for just a few passages on how we should be spending our time.
I seem to recall Corinthians having a number of passages dedicated to how men should keep their hair cut and not wear hats and women should keep their heads covered, or not cut their hair.
Our first priority should be God
Then,
Given how much time we spend with other people and not even thinking about God during the week,
Followed by,
We should be looking to have God involved in every aspect of our lives and embrace that
Are you sure you've got your priorities straight? I mean, if you're looking to have God involved in every aspect of your life, then why is it considered reasonable to spend all kinds of time during the week with other people and not thinking about God at all? On the other hand, if you are thinking about God all through the week, then church is just redundant, and therefore unnecessary, isn't it? So what is it?
Not to mention that Judgement Day will come without announcement, and so forth, and you must be in a state of grace at that exact moment or you're not going with Him, so you can't afford not to think about God all the time. He could be there right now waiting for you to sin so he can call up judgement day and send you to your eternal tormentor. Repent now, before it's too late! Brother, I fear for your soul. I really do.
Dictatorship? Fear-mongering? Control Freak? If He was any of those things, He wouldn't have given you a choice to worship something other than Himself.
Worship Me or go to hell? You must be using some definition of "choice" with which I am unfamiliar.
The Anglican Communion is Communion of people reenacting the last supper symbolically
That looks like a fancy way of saying "symbolic cannibalism". I certainly don't want people eating bread and pretending it's my flesh...
I don't think the Church of Fools is supposed to be a replacement for church, more a place where people who don't go to church can explore it, and take their interest further if they like.
Finally, religion learns something from porn!
Heh, that was pretty entertaining. Let's do this one too. ;)
The story goes that in the beginning there was this guy, God, up in his Heaven. Or maybe he made Heaven and then occupied it. With his angels. And one of his angels, name of Lucifer, iirc, had a serious disagreement over how God was running things. Now, we don't know the nature of the disagreement, mind you. We only know that there was one, and that Lucifer built up some followers.
We also know that Lucifer was Jesus's brother, and therefore God's son. Or at least his stepson.
So God, Lucifer's loving father, kicks Lucifer right out. And that's not good enough! Nononono, he sends him down to a lake of fire, to, well, I don't know what to do. But he punishes his son by kicking him out of the house! What a system or morality he's got, really.
Then, later on, he realizes he screwed up (in spite of the fact that "God doesn't make mistakes") and he has to learn about the "human condition" that he created. To do so he possesses his Son, Jesus, and forces himself/son/ghost to endure being a fetus, a baby, and growing up, and living in the human condition, so that he can commit symbolic cannibalism right before being executed (blood of christ, body of christ, etc, right?). So now he's chosen his favorite Son, and possessed him! Of course, because Jesus wasn't competent enough to do the job without being possessed by his almighty.
So, God tosses out his son (or step-son) for having a disagreement of some sort, doesn't tell us what it was actually about, censors the poor guy so he can't tell us about it, then picks his favorite son of them all in order to build a religion based on never finding out what the War in Heaven was about.
IF that's not the character of a megalomiac fascist dictator, I don't know what is. But it's obvious what model Hitler was copying. (Am I invoking Godwin's Law? Wait, I can't, can I? ;) )
It does seem to be a form of Pascal's Wager. I say it's safe to believe in God because if I'm right, good, and if not, well nothing lost. But then you say, "but by worshiping this one God you may offend another."
Heh, chew on this.
Why should I waste my time trying to be right and good according to God's dictatorship? Why would I subject myself to His Holy Fascism? Knowing the kind of attention-grubbing fear-mongering this "God" does, and how much of a control freak He really is, why would I even want to look at Heaven, let alone enter it?
Man, I'm buying a gun, so when Jesus comes along I can put him in his place. Those Romans must've done something wrong. Judgement Day my ass, I'll be fighting for Freedom on that day. Mine and yours, buddy. It's the only fight worth winning.
Too bad all he's going to say is "The system is going down for reboot after three trumpet notes, please save your work. TOO LATE"
That's great, but would I wind up in federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prison? I mean, come one, let's worry about realistic consequences.
Assuming you meant "And how is spending", your entire statement is socially invasive. I've always been under the impression that your relationship with God is a personal thing, and your current redemption ranking is your own business, and that the purpose of church was to network with other like-minded people.
Same reason we have support groups for drug addictions, only the purpose of those groups is to *stop* the addiction.
Now that makes me wonder, if i keep the virtual church window open and the look at pr0n am i in the clear? Or maybe i need a virtual confessional?
Sounds like you'll need an irc window too.
at the day of reconing
Man, let that day come soon. I've got some pretty old speakers here that could use a new set of cones.
Er, mm. That isn't what you meant?
In other news, I hear that RMS was demanding this software used be GPL so he could finally hold the first online service of the Church of Emacs. Unfortunately, the only real result of this was that all the Seventh Day Vi-ists rioted, tearing up convenience stores, software shops, and leaving little pieces of paper all over the place that said ":q!". Police reported one arrest in all, some bozo in LA wearing a tie and ripping up notepads in Albertson's. RMS called it "a sad day for text-editor-based religions. He called for everyone to 'just get along and use Emacs'." Then someone purportedly from the Xemacs sect sued him personally for asking people to 'get along', saying that "people shouldn't ask for unreasonable things". The court case is waiting to be tried, but the defense attorney was noted as saying "it'll be a hard case to crack, even though emacs is obviously the superior platform for developers and is the operating system that will render Windows unusable."
I don't know what Jesus would do, but most Catholics would show up at a real church since communion is a big part of church.
Hey man, think how cool this communion could be, though.
Blood of christ, blahblahblah
*shot of firewater* Hmm, need more of that. *another shot of firewater*
Body of christ, blahblahblah
*bite of steak* Hmm, need more of that. I need all the saving I can get. *another bite of steak* Forget that, I'll just eat the whole body. And more of that blood stuff, that was pretty hot. Whew!
Hmmm, looks like the sermon's about the sins of alcohol. Good thing I only drink alcohol during Holy Communion. *hic* Next time I'll try beer, I've always wondered what that tasted like.
if Jesus came back,
Man, jesus did come back, didn't you hear? He showed up and realized he would never be able to pwn mankind, threw his arms up in frustration, and left. Last I heard, he was arguing with his dad over whether or not to pull judgement day so they could start over and not make the same mistake again. I seem to recall his argument centered around "trying the same thing and expecting different results" or something like that.
Last time I was in a church, I felt pretty threatened. It was several years ago, I was there with my girlfriend, and a bunch of people knew I was an atheist. The looks they gave me were not at all "non threatening."
Heh, you should've seen the looks I got during my sister-in-law's sending off. It was a mormon service, and she was going to Argentina on a mission, and she wanted my wife and I to be there. When they passed around communion (not to mention I was sorely underdressed for this "casual" ceremony. I guess "We came, we saw, we fuckin' stomped" wasn't casual enough for them) I passed, figuring I didn't want to take part in any symbolic cannibalism. (nobody asked, but I'm sure I would have had an appropriate response if they had) Man, if looks could kill I never would've made it out of that room. Heh.
Disclaimer: I am an atheist. I really don't get this thing at all.
Heh, I can't help but think that this development signals a new wave of evangelists. I'm sure Suicidal Tendencies will do a song about this, eventually. ;)
Hey dude, are you involved with the ralphdontrun.net site itself? I'm asking because I couldn't help but notice it requires flash, and it seems to me like requiring a flash plugin on a political site is just like requiring a turbo-charger at the grocery store. I couldn't read the site, but I was interested enough to click on your link.
This came across the Hydrogen list awhile back. Enjoy! ;)
No, there wasn't a secret link that I could see.
Man, take your grey, dried out, tough ribeye and stick it. I'll take a nice, bleeding T-bone. Just chase the cow through the kitchen, that's about right.
Heh.
Who are you?
I am #2.
Who is number one?
You are #6. You are not real.
I am not a number, I am a media player!
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
And, of course, as we all know, the chorus goes "I'm not a number, I'm a media player, play my crap where I waaaaaaaaaant, to!"
Go to my website and read about the Air Guitar Jam. ;) I think that'll answer your question about people going nuts from too many drugs.