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SimChurch
Roland Piquepaille writes "It's Sunday and some of you might go to a church. But starting on May 11, and for a duration of three months, you'll be able to go to a virtual church. Only the building, with its altar and pews, will be virtual. The preacher, congregation and prayers will be real, according to this BBC News article, 'Glimpse inside the virtual church.' This experiment is launched by a Christian website, Ship of Fools, and will be named Church of Fools. Even with such a foolish name, the virtual church project has been approved by the church hierarchy. This overview contains other details and references about the Church of Fools project."
fp
I'm torn.
On one hand, as a coder, sitting in front of the computer for hours on end I can attest to the meditative state the computer puts me in. I'm not a practicing catholic, but was raised one. Church never really had me contemplating as much as the cathode ray bombarding my brain with it's "green soothing light does". Of course i was a child.
On the other, if this virtual church has "pop up ads" and a whole other pile of garbage, what would jesus do? I mean in the bible he got angry because the holy place was being disrespected, because the spiritual was being commercialized, because the Temple was being desecrated by those who kill the holy and sell it...
Is this a joke?
I'm not a religious man myself but I wonder how successful this will be.
I mean, i thought that meeting up in church wasn't just about the worship
but was about the social interaction with others - the feeling of unity with
your peers. How can an "SimChurch" emulate that side of it?
Watching a webcast or something like it just isn't the same. Anyone who's watched the BBC program "songs of praise" will back me up on that one.
Simon.
Sounds like a hoax made by atheists, but what do I know? :)
Now you can go to church, read /. and watch pr0n all at the same time.
"There is no teacher but the enemy."-Mazer Rackham
Do a quick Kazaa for Garrison Keillor's "Lutherans On Line." It's pretty funny.
This side up.
Sweet. Now us fools have a place to go and worship our God for more foolish goodness!
I want to know if the simpriest is a simpedophile who preys on simchildren.
Going to church every sunday isn't necessarily just to hear a sermon, a little choir, read a few passages from the Bible...no, a big part rests around the face time with other attendees. It is like a family reunion...in a chat room. You might all be there, but you can't express emotion or body language that gives depth to any sort of relationship. Plus, one huge aspect of going to church and hearing millenia old gospel certainly implies that you are not looking to get tips and tricks on the latest gadgets, linux distros, etc.
This is outrageous! How am I supposed to burn churchs now? -The Anarchist
Yes, Jesus will return one day... on the net!
Nothing like a good old SimQuisition to clear up The Sims Online. Mayhaps even a SimCrusade against the illegal underground SimGoverment?
Hate me!
the first post is not redundant by its very nature
Pity the new fool overlords.
I predict this will be the first of thousands, including a few dodgy ones based in Nigeria (oops did I just give someone an idea).
"...no one has built an interactive 3D church environment before - complete with gothic arches and hard wooden pews."
HAVE YOU NEVER PLAYED DEUS EX???
It looks like the basic Flash engine that they are using also powered the Ark, an internet based reality game show that the Ship ran last year, featuring Biblical luminaries on a 40 day voyage around a mockup of Noah's Ark. If you examine the screenshots of Church of Fools, you can see Simon Peter, Jezebel, Mary Magdeline, Joseph (with rainbow coat), etc. You can still tour around the Ark by clicking the link above.
-Troy
Proud Shipmate
Sorry, I'm getting a bit carried away.
And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)
SLASHDOT
Huxley
Is there any other kind of church?
This will allow me to stay home every Sunday. ;)
Quite. We've got church once a week...
You can't have a civil discussion with an atheist. Atheists like to think of themselves as rational, but if you observe their behavior you'll find they
are anything but. They are full of anger and bitterness, and react with frightful outrage whenever they encounter someone with different views from
their own. Even people who think that atheism is a reasonable philosophy must admit that most atheists did not arrive at their point of view through
anything resembling a rational process. Rather, they are poorly socialized individuals who are lashing out angrily at anything which they perceive to be
valued by "mainstream" society. You really shouldn't take it personally. It is the result of an angry and profoundly unhappy psychological condition on
their part, not due to you or your Christian beliefs.
Finally a good use for the online ordination I bought from that spammer.
;-)
I don't even need to buy candles!
Plenty of you are making light of this, but do you realize how many would love to go to a church on Sundays but can't (e.g., those who are sick, those who live in rural areas)? Fellowship with other Christians is half the Christian faith, and this is a useful tool for those who'll need it.
I wonder if when the 'plate' will be passed around and accept virtual coins or they will want credit card numbers.
Just another scam in hiding, as is most organized religion. ( not the concept of religious belief, just that when you organize it, its ready-made scam material for the gullible. )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"God is present wherever his people gather"
that (or something very similar) was what my pastor said when i asked him about marring me at my parents house instead of the church building itself. I dont see what that same concept couldnt apply to an online church.
Im actually quite tempted to "show up" may 11th. I was raised a christian, still consider myself one, however for various reasons I rarely attend services anymore.... (mainly lack of motivation on my part to actully get up, get ready & drive over to the church) I fully realize thats no excuse at all.. but visiting a virtual service or two might be just what the doctor ordered.
"Nyquil - The stuffy, sneezy, why-the-hell-is-the-room-spinning medicine."
...to the best Church site on the net: Landover Baptist Church. Praise the Lord!
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
Can I pray virtually?
Does it have a python module?
from Prayer import vprayer
from Prayer import GOD_CHRIST
while True:
choose_god=GOD_CHRIST
text='Dear Lord please.....'
vprayer(choose_god).write(text)
ring a bell with anyone?
back in the day we didnt have no old school
Only the building, with its altar and pews, will be virtual. The preacher, congregation and prayers will be real....
This makes real sense.
I mean, they're worshipping a deity who isn't real, in order to gain admission to a place, Heaven, that isn't real and avoid being sent by their unreal but supposedly loving God to another place, Hell, that isn't real, where they would be tortured for eternity by an entity, Satan, who isn't real.
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
There is literally no reason why this sort of thing couldn't have already been going on for who knows how long.
There are all kinds of people in games like Second Life, There, and The Sims Online that take the game way too seriously. It's only a matter of time before someone starts religious services, if they haven't already.
I've seen groups of people all wearing shirts with Crosses and quotes like "Got Jesus?" for a while. An official meeting place on Sundays is only one step away.
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
And what is left for those of us that are month-minded?
At the congregation I assemble with, we have too many people to fit in the main auditorium, so we overflow into a large classroom in the back. We pipe back video of the preacher and songleader, etc, and project it on a screen as well as send some singing from mics in the auditorium, but something's just missing. It's like watching an event on TV instead of actually being a part of it. So, I for one, would not like to see this become more common.
I've discovered a remarkable proof, but this margin is too small to contain it...
Tensions are going to mount between HPBs vs LPBs.
Someone will invariably call someone else a wall hacker...Then all hell will break loose.
too many disruptive trolls.
They're going to need a lot of fast fingured moderators to keep that place "holy."
Ben
Work Safe Porn
And... free, with a visit to the "house of fools" site, the companion guide:
Religion For Dummies
-- :P
and yes, I *am* an atheist
You're saying that the Book of Genesis was God's idea of a "first post" or something? :)
How many l33t preteens is it going to take to ruin a virtual service? They're going to have to implement chat restrictions over the course of the main 'worship', and even then, all it would take to ruin the after-chat is one kid.
freeminimacs, just becau
was the first thing I thought of when I saw the article. It was one of the classic Far Side comics.
If anyone has a link they want to put up, feel free, but I couldn't find one, and I didn't feel like looking it up in my collection and scanning it in.
Will the priests be able to virtually molest the alter boys?
That should read '...be able virtually to molest the altar boys?'. You shouldn't split an inifinitive, it's just bad grammar.
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
...it is one of the logical steps in the integration of technology into our culture. As tech becomes more and more prominent in our lives, we can only expect to see more headlines such as this. The internet has become a useful tool for linking people over vast distances, and such headlines show off the services that this tool can provide (albeit to a rather limited audience in this case.) More and more meetings take place over the internet, e-mail replaces letters home, payments are made online, and now, we are starting to use the internet for our religious needs. Not really that far-fetched when you think about it. I, for one, would not be surprised to see things such as online birthday parties and internet weddings (if they have not already been done.)
The real litigious bastards...
The experience will not be the same to be with the crowd at church. The music (e.g., choir), the moods, expressions from people, social interaction, laughter from jokes, watching videos (e.g., Passion of the Christ movie trailer from today's sermon at Lake Avenue Church, etc. I can understand the site if one is very sick to go out like me today due to a nasty cold or can't go due to health issues.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Hoc est enim cookie meum.
I wonder if the Church of Fools has worked out the theological implications of the fact that their priests and pastors are now avatars?
Bless me, father, for I have spammed...
I guess the only downside is that people would probably expect the ceremony to be consumated by cybersex.
Instead of putting up a virtual church, Jesus would go to those people's houses who couldn't otherwise go to church, and personally worship with them.
That's What Jesus Would Do.
Of all the non threatening social situations, I can't imagine a less threatening atmosphere than a church.
But who knows, maybe this will find it's niche.
As long as they don't junk it up with ads and demand membership fees or whatnot the only problem I see with it is that the internet is a wire monkey. It's bad to depend on the internet for your social fix. Real life person to person interaction is necessary. And of all the places to avoid it, church isn't it.
I also have to wonder how they're going to deal with trolls.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
> Now you can go to church, read /. and watch pr0n
> all at the same time.
"She's a techno pagan right? Ask her to bless your laptop."
So the cool kids stay in the virtual back and log out right after communion, right?
There are more pro-religion books out there than anti-religion books. And how about the great leaders and scientists who were religious? If they were wrong about God, they could concievably be wrong about their other theories/inventions/achievements. But they were right in their achievements. Name one great composer or inventor who was an atheist. Couldn't do it? I didn't think so. So far the score's looking pretty good, eh? A billion Christian's can't all be wrong. Would you also tell Bush himself that he was wrong? I wouldn't put it past your kind...
Ever heard the phrase "time will tell?" Well time has indeed "told", still after 2000 years of people who believe in Jesus. And going strong.
Is this gonna be just like virtual sex? Vaguely satisifying but in the end its all just a w_nk. (That's Aussie slang for masturbation for those of you who don't know).
Think of all the benefits. Just think of all the sacraments:
Virtual communion - zero calories, and won't put you over the limit for when you drive
Virtual marriage - When it goes sour you can always claim it wasn't you on the other end of the computer and keep half your stuff.
Virtual baptism - Only your avatar will get wet.
Virtual last rites - Not as depressing when its an avatar not a real person.
Some things will always be better in person no matter how emmersive the virtual reality. This is totally wasted on me completely. I'm not religious. Religion has in some ways been the bane of my existence. I'd just love it if those that are would just leave me alone and I don't look forward to the prospect of increased net evangelism though I know its bound to happen.
I'm not a troll either though.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Unholy Cathedral was a boss level in the Diablo II, if I remember correctly. Also a Doom mod. Anyway, my personal opinion is, as a chaos magician I really DO prefer xians operating virtually, rather than inside consensual reality. Makes certain efforts much easier.
There you are, staring at me again.
I think the people who are organising this are quite aware that its a gimmick, and I think that's probably the point. The article said that they were interested in attracting people who wouldn't otherwise go to a church. There are lots of other examples of churches organising surprising or gimmicky events to attract a different audience. The biggest risk is that they will only get people who go to church anyway. I imagine one of the aims will be to put non-Christians into contact with a local non-virtual church. (btw i'm not using gimmick as a derogatory term)
As a Druid, all I have to do is find a piece of nature, and you are in a church.
That being said, since the early days of CompuServ and IRC, ie, back in the 1980s, Neo-Pagan groups of various demonimations have been holding on-line rituals. They are wonderful to behold. But then again, I have been called a "TechnoPagan".
It matters not what you worship, even when I was Catholic, I always found Nature to be sacred.
So, is that confusing enough?
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
So do they consecrate the server as holy ground or what? I'm not even gonna think about baptisms.
For the love of God, please learn to spell "ridiculous"!!!
of the 58ish comments I've read, I've not seen one childish outburst on the side of the Christians, only on the side of those non-christian...not to say we won't stir up a fantatic in a minute, but it reflect badly on the rest of us...I detect a bit of unforgiveness on the parts of non-christians here. *putting all thoughts of imaginary karma aside, he scrolls by the "Post Anonymously" button and straight on to "Submit"*
Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
Well, isn't that simple minded.
Lets apply your logic. I believe 2+2=4, and I believe you're an idiot, so I must be right on both counts.
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
Oddly, my phone just started to ring non stop.
Won't all that old-style English they read from the Bible be even harder to understand once they convert it to chat speak? "In da bginin Gd creatd da hvn n da erth. n da erth ws w/out frm, n void; n drknes [ws] upn da face of da deep. n da Spirt of Gd mvd upon da face of da wtrs. n Gd sd, Let der b lght: n der ws lght."
Religion? Theist/Atheist/Deist/Agnostic. The problem is moderators who cut down any sort of attack on religion, while clearly most of us have a (libertarian) atheist viewpoint.
-I am an elective eunuch.
Click a tubgirl link in a thread about SimChurch on slashdot.
Was that meant to be a joke? That's one of the single worst puns I've ever heard...
Can we kep the illogical religious people OUT of a medium that is built on pure logic? If only they would disappear in the real world too...
"Why do you consent to live in ignorance and fear?" - Bad Religion
Am I the only one who finds it surprisingly fitting for a christian website to be called "Ship of Fools"? Right, a whole bunch of fools in the same boat. My thoughts EXACTLY. Damn fools, you're ship's sinking as the population grows wiser - let us all remember what Napolean said: "Religion is the only thing keeping the poor from murdering the rich." In other words, you guys are what is keeping big business and pharma companies in charge. Put your efforts behind a change or a culture we ALL can get behind.
ymmv
ok, lets just all admit the truth, there is no god!
from my SimState
"Not everything you read online is true."
"Except whatever that man with the priest icon says."
---
Never criticize religion on Slashdot. You will be modded down for "Troll" no matter how factual it is.
Now that communism is dead, I guess it's OK, even with Americans, to recall some of it's good apects: Religion is the opium of the people. (simple interpretation here)
Doesn't leave you with much.
This message was brought to you by... THE SPACE POPE!
That green slime had it coming.
There was a piece on the radio earlier today about "Organists Behaving Badly." That's a group of church organists who try to work secular music (e.g. the theme from The Simpsons) into their repertoire without any of the churchgoers catching on. One of the organists they talked to was involved with ShipOfFools.com.
If you want to google for it, I think it was a BBC radio story.
-Rich
That post was actually very relevant. For once.
Perhaps a virtual church will be a good place for people who have been abused in church to explore worship and feel safe while doing so.
Mod parent up!
Yes, as a matter of fact I would love to have the opportunity to tell Bush that he's wrong about many many things, including invading countries illegally and lying about the reasons; destroying our environment to increase corporate profits; attempting to alter our constitution to ban gay marriages, which is a disgusting abuse of the constitution as well as discrimination; etc., etc., the list goes on.
I don't have any problems if he's a Christian or not, but I do think he is a complete jackass.
You mean like "In Russia, ..."? ;-)
I'm not sure, but woudln't it be more proper to put the modifier after the appropriate infinitive? For example, we all know from Star Trek that "to boldly go" should be "to go boldly" and not "boldly to go."
Therefore, since the infinitive being split is "to molest" shouldn't the corrected correct grammar be:
"...be able to molest virtually the altar boys?"
Seeing as we're going to be grammar nazis and all.
I was recently involved in a work about Jews and how they feel/live being Jews, which inevitably made me notice one religious aspect. While I think any monotheist religion is a particularly Bad Thing, I must admit the Jewish religion is by far not as bad as the others, because at least it has no concept of proselytism.
"but in the end its all just a w_nk. (That's Aussie slang for masturbation for those of you who don't know)."
God. For an Aussie (we're supposed to be reknowned for calling a spade a spade) you're pretty quick to self-censor. The word is "Wank". See that little "a" in there?
Ya wanker!
I damn you all to silicon hell!
Perhaps we'll see virtual petty church political squabbling in the chat rooms. I can hardly wait.
-- Stephen.
Atheists can no more disprove God's existence than believers can prove it. While I have a certain admiration of those with strong convictions, the righteousness of BOTH sides annoys me.
That's sophistry. The burden of proof clearly lies with the theists to prove the existence of god or gods, just as it does for me to prove the existence of my invisible rabbit. And despite thousands of years of trying, the best the theists have managed is logically broken proofs similar to Descartes'. Meanwhile, I'm still working on proving my bunny...
It won't be a total substitute until you can hand over your credit card and income details so they can conveniently extract 10% of your pre-tax income out of you.
Nice.
God squadders with mod points.
Get a life, you toads.
There is no God, and your worldview is a total fabrication.
First of all, the article states that the virtual church "may well receive approval in the church hierarchy" (emphasis mine), not that they already have as the submitter asserts.
Furthermore, the article does not specify which "church hierarchy" it is talking about; my guess would be the Anglican Church (if they were referring to the Catholic Church, then that statement was so far off-base I don't even know where to begin).
Mike
Going to church every sunday isn't necessarily just to hear a sermon, a little choir, read a few passages from the Bible...
:)
You have never been to a Catholic mass.
And before you mark this as flamebait, keep in mind, IAAC(atholic).
if(!toilet_paper) roll.replace(new roll);
Unreal Tournament 2004® Bible Based Maps and Characters are on the Way! Yeeehah!
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
From the article: Although an unofficial move, the virtual church may well receive approval in the church hierarchy. The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, has called for the church to become more "mission-shaped" by adopting new forms of worship, which could include new ventures such as "café churches".
The colection basket has been passed to you. There are no exits because you chose to sit in the middle of the pew. What do you want to do?
Donate O$5 O$10 @$50 via PayPal
Deftly pass it along while hanging your head in virtual shame
-Adam
...and you will find me.
Split a broadband signal and I'll be there.
It's this exact human ability (to twist personal faith into a mockery of itself) that gave Heinlein, Clarke and the rest of the boys so much to poke fun at.
Where's Douglas when we need him most?
#SickNotWeak
Even with such a foolish name, the virtual church project has been approved by the church hierarchy.
is emphatically not a christian website. In fact, it's the precise opposite.
Then I prayed at a real church. In neither case, did God deign to reply.
You got four! A winner is you!
That has to be the most fucked up logic I have ever seen.
You, my good sir, just proved his point.
Shut the fuck up, you fucking dipshit. Jesus fucking rules.
It's MONDAY here, you insensitive clod!
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
Churches can be downright mean, especially if you manage to violate the mores of a particular congregation in some heinous fashion such as wearing a short-sleeved shirt or singing off key. Where else do you go where, when you come in, you're asked to stand up in front of a couple of hundred people so they can all get a good look at you?
Note - I love the church. In fact, I'm an itinerant preacher and may be a pastor pretty soon (i.e. as soon as God forces me to give up my rather nice salary in tech in order to serve his people full-time.) But let's not try to pretend that churches are non-threatening.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
"You, my good sir, just proved his point."
You realize you're trying to use the same logic in reverse, don't you?
In Western Australia, the state-run cemetaries board webcasts funerals.
Homer: I'm not normally a religious man, but if you're up there, save me, Superman!
The Simpsons
Hosting 20G hd, 1Tb bw! ssh $7.95
going again this Monday since they have an evening service for college students.
"But let's not try to pretend that churches are non-threatening."
Churches are as non threatening as Pastors allow them to be. I havn't dressed up for church in a very long time. Years. In fact every monday there's a very rugged looking guy who comes in who knows pretty much everybody.
"Where else do you go where, when you come in, you're asked to stand up in front of a couple of hundred people so they can all get a good look at you?"
At church, the only one you should be paying attention to is God and His Word. If all you're interested in is the fashion show and vocals of the people around you, you might as well just stay home.
Sounds like you're working for and attend a very hyporitical church that's more worried about looks than spirituality.
So yes, Church is the most non-threatening social environment there is. If a church isn't, then it isn't a church you should be going to.
"as soon as God forces me to give up my rather nice salary in tech in order to serve his people full-time"
So, as soon as he forces you to stop being greedy?
God's not in the habit of forcing people not to do things. Sounds like your church has a lot of serious issues that need to be dealt with and you're more interested in a good pay check and denying serious problems exist playing it off like they're normal, than dealing with them.
Your church is not normal. It's broken. I can't believe you're a pastor even part time if you can't see this and see what's wrong with it.
Maybe everyone would be better off if you weren't the pastor so that someone else with better bearings on what a church should be can run the place and fix it.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
most of the religious discussion I've witnessed on this site is neither thoughtful nor productive,
those who "comment" upon religion, either pro- or con-, usually begin by assuming that theirs is the only rational possible belief, and
few people who want to comment on religion on this site seem interested in playing by any rules of rational discourse.
The bottom line is that many intelligent people have a well-founded belief in Christianity; many other intelligent people do not. If you are interested in engaging in the best part of the debate, then start with respect instead of contempt, and you'll get the best the other person has to offer.
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
what exactly has been the cause of every major war in the past 100,000 years?
maybe not the purpose, but the scapegoat, the reason, the cause?
is there any other kind??
It's a terrible shame that the poster didn't actually read the article he cites. Michael writes that "the virtual church project has been approved by the church hierarchy."
However, the BBC article in fact says: Although an unofficial move, the virtual church may well receive approval in the church hierarchy.
So I imagine that even if he sat in the real or vitual church, he'd fall asleep anyway.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
Shut the fuck up, you fucking dipshit. Jesus fucking rules.
Fuck Jesus and the "virgin" he rode in on.
what's that?
oh, wait...
I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this 120 chars is too small to contain.
TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A (CHRISTIAN) FUNDAMENTALIST
/plurvert
(found on www.evilbible.com)
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" -- including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
An imaginary world where people can go to an imaginary church to talk to their imaginary god.
Oh flame away...
I think I'll bring up this online church at the next staff meeting. I'm sure the mission director, Rev. Joy, will be thrilled.
Hmmm, y'know, The mayor of Roanoke, VA has officially declared that this May is "Rescue Mission Month". We're getting local churches to announce it to their congregations. I think I'll contact the pastor of this online church and ask him to read out the weekly readings we're asking pastors to read.
I've found that my posts don't format quite right w/o a sig.
maybe if you were greek and living 2000 years ago, then you'd be a sophist.
nowadays, the undecided, the middlemen, are called Agnostic.
pax
but without the free food. :(
Monthly bills? Oh you meant religiously..
What about a SimSynagogue or SimMosque? Let's be fair here :)
$DEITY bless $NATION
This makes me think of the church masses they used to show (or still do?) on television for those who cannot leave the house. A full mass, but all televised. This really isn't that different. Sure, pop-ups and donations via cell phone really commercializes the experience, but IMHO, it really isn't that different. An interesting idea, and I'm sure a subject that sparks a lot of feeling one way or another among the religious.
The main problem that I see with this idea is church is molding to cultural ideas. Although the concept of reaching out to people via a forum in which it would be easily acceptable is good, at the same time the whole idea of leaving the 'world' (before any trolls jump on this idea, please take the time to look at the Christian concept of the world) to worship is lost. In a virtual enviroment, people are not themselves, they are free to act and to take on personas that are actually opposite to the way they act in real life. The other aspect that is lost in this idea is fellowship and worshipping with others. At least these are my personal objections. I just don't understand how this will serve any usefull religious purpouse. Outreach is fine. Outreach into virtual worlds doesn't make sense. Maybe I'm just too tradional.
The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
The way I read it is the site somehow has something against a 5th grade teacher Why they would want to ship her off is anyones guess.
That's nothing. I've been attending The Church of Critical Thinking on-line for weeks...
No hard feelings; I'm just trying to explain why your comments, which probably seem lucid and self-evident to you, are entirely unconvincing to me. Your comments about religion (which I went back and read) are forceful and sometimes witty, but they don't have a lot of substance. There's nothing in them that challenges me to rethink my position; there is simply scorn and invective.
Fact of life: there are intelligent people in the world that find the arguments in favor of Christianity to be persuasive. You might secretly suspect them to be irrational, but I can assure you that your views are just as irrational to me. This doesn't mean we can't engage in religious discussion, but it does mean that you have to work a lot harder at making yourself truly persuasive to someone who doesn't already agree with you. Obviously, that cuts both ways, which brings me back to my original point: religious discussion on
Regards,
Jeff Cagle
Human being (n.): A genetically human, genetically distinct, functioning organism.
Midol?
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
what exactly has been the cause of every major war in the past 100,000 years?
Power.
People have used every means available to get and maintain power (including religion), and made all sorts of scapegoats, etc.
But power is the common thread behind it. It's just that one of the best ways to get power is to control some aspect of what people believe in. And when I say "believe" here, it need not be a religious belief at all... it can be some form of patriotism/statism/whatever.
This is why they moderated that as a troll; you've managed to both overgeneralize[1], and undergeneralize[2] in the same breath. Impressive.
[1] There are plenty of sects which have never been involved in war in any meaningful way. But you don't seem to know anything about them; somehow I'm not surprised.
[2] The reason religion is used so often is to gain power. You may notice that they also use various other reasons, to appeal to as many people as they might in the quest for power.
As a devout Christian, and avid church-goer, the first thing that came to mind when I read this post is how exactly it fits in with what the Bible itself says in Hebrews 10:25:
"Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching."
Although I certainly think this is a great idea for those who are physically unable to make it to church on a given day, there's not really any good biblical reason to skip going to church. (As a side note to several other posters, this verse doesn't appear to allow for sleeping in)
They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
Acts 2:42-47
These two passages, while not giving the complete picture, give a window into what a church is supposed to look like. In America, churches act like vendors of religious goods and services -- just a worldly business like any other. The early church lived more like a commune than a McJesus'. But today, a virtual church is only the logical extension of the modern church business model.
The fact that anyone would be willing to call this a church shows how corrupted the definition of church has become. A church is a group of people who are willing to sacrifice their lives for God, for one another, and for the good of the world. A church is a group of people who choose to live their lives in true community, not hiding behind suburbia. A group of people who choose to live with values completely different from those of a greedy, callous, militaristic, mechanized society. The hospital is an invention of the church when it was the church, when people and communities freely opened up their homes to the sick, poor, and homeless. Today we have conferences, retreats, and other pseudo-religous claptrap (not to mention junk and pulp theology like Prayer of Jabez or Purpose Driven Life).
So this web site is not a church. That's not the real surprise. But guess what? That stone building down the street where people go on Sunday to munch bagels and gossip? That's not a church either. It's a fraud. It's a country club disguised as a religious institution. It exists only for itself and is more about excluding people than including them.
"Wanna cyber, sister?"
I have discovered a truly marvelous
On another topic, I have to ask, do you really believe that the United Nations is the tool of the Antichrist?
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
I guess the fools and their (virtual?) money are soon to be parted. :)
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
MYSTICI CORPORIS CHRISTI (On the Mystical Body of Christ)
Pope Pius XII
Encyclical promulgated on 29 June 1943
To Our Venerable Brethren, Patriarchs, Primates, Archbishops, Bishops, and other Local Ordinaries enjoying Peace and Communion with the Apostolic See.
Venerable Brethren, Health and Apostolic Benediction.
1. The doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church,[1] was first taught us by the Redeemer Himself. Illustrating as it does the great and inestimable privilege of our intimate union with so exalted a Head, this doctrine by its sublime dignity invites all those who are drawn by the Holy Spirit to study it, and gives them, in the truths of which it proposes to the mind, a strong incentive to the performance of such good works as are conformable to its teaching. For this reason, We deem it fitting to speak to you on this subject through this Encyclical Letter, developing and explaining above all, those points which concern the Church Militant. To this We are urged not only by the surpassing grandeur of the subject but also by the circumstances of the present time.
2. For We intend to speak of the riches stored up in this Church which Christ purchased with His own Blood,[2] and whose members glory in a thorn crowned Head. The fact that they thus glory is a striking proof that the greatest joy and exaltation are born only of suffering, and hence that we should rejoice if we partake of the sufferings of Christ, that when His glory shall be revealed we may also be glad with exceeding joy.[3]
3. From the outset it should be noted that the society established by the Redeemer of the human race resembles its divine Founder who was persecuted, calumniated and tortured by those very men whom He had undertaken to save. We do not deny, rather from a heart filled with gratitude to God We admit, that even in our turbulent times there are many who, though outside the fold of Jesus Christ, look to the Church as the only haven of salvation; but We are also aware that the Church of God not only is despised and hated maliciously by those who shut their eyes to the light of Christian wisdom and miserably return to the teachings, customs and practices of ancient paganism, but is ignored, neglected, and even at times looked upon as irksome by many Christians who are allured by specious error or caught in the meshes of the world's corruption. In obedience, therefore, Venerable Brethren, to the voice of Our conscience and in compliance with the wishes of many, We will set forth before the eyes of all and extol the beauty, the praises, and the glory of Mother Church to whom, after God, we owe everything.
4. And it is to be hoped that Our instructions and exhortations will bring forth abundant fruit in the souls of the faithful in the present circumstances. For We know that if all the sorrows and calamities of these stormy times, by which countless multitudes are being sorely tried, are accepted from God's hands with calm submission, they naturally lift souls above the passing things of earth to those of heaven that abide forever, and arouse a certain secret thirst and intense desire for spiritual things. Thus, urged by the Holy Spirit, men are moved, and, as it were, impelled to seek the Kingdom of God with greater diligence; for the more they are detached from the vanities of this world and from inordinate love of temporal things, the more apt they will be to perceive the light of heavenly mysteries. But the vanity and emptiness of earthly things are more manifest today than perhaps at any other period, when Kingdoms and States are crumbling, when enormous quantities of goods and all kinds of wealth are being sunk in the depths of the sea, and cities, towns and fertile fields are strewn with massive ruins and defiled with the blood of brothers.
5. Moreover, We trust that Our exposition of the doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ will be acceptable and useful to those also who are without the fold of the Chu
IC XC NIKA
Shameless Google advocacy for the Baptist Seminary [johnlelandcenter.edu] I attend.
/. add the sig, and leave your existing sig blank.
You do realize that Google doesn't index any signatures, don't you? Check it out yourself. If you want to get Google to even notice your link, put it in your URL field, ie: where you have the extremehope.org link now. Or add the Google bomb manually inside the text of every post rather than having
The difference between a place like Slashdot and church is that if Slashdot didn't exist, we'd still be interested in technology and related issues. If church didn't exist, many people would stop using it as a social crutch and they'd realize they don't *really* believe in all that bible crap and would stop going.
Honestly, if you *truly* believe in what the bible teaches, would you be working at a full-time job, buying a house and cars, going to movies, etc. knowing that everybody around you who isn't yet a christian is going to burn in hell for all eternity? How could you live with yourself knowing that there are people dying all the time who aren't saved and, because you were too busy watching Friends or waxing your car, they're now going to burn in hell forever?
Not to mention all the contradictions, absurdities, etc. etc.
Did no one realize this site is a spoof? like landover baptist...
Checkout the top article...
Animals used to get sacrificed by priests, but in these liberal times, they get blessed up instead. Join this week's caption competition.
"Having been warned by the Bishop his church would be
closed if he didn't dramatically increase congregation
numbers, the vicar Christened anything that moved.
"
"The burden of proof clearly lies with the theists to prove the existence of god or gods".
You say the burden of proof lies with the theists. Why is that? (I haven't studied philosophy, and had to look "sophistry" up in the dictionary, but I'm curious how you can conclude that.)
To me it seems that both views would be equally valid until it can be proven one way or another. Until they are proven the truth is indeterminate.
In statistics they usually pick one hypothesis as the default or "Null" hypothesis and the other as the hypothesis to test, and then if they are unable to disprove the Null hypothesis, they accept it as true (because the burden of proof is not on the test hypothesis, not the Null hypothesis).
In statistics this selection works well because the selection of the Null hypothesis is non-arbitrary -- it's usually the given data you're trying to disprove/verify (like if a manufacturer claims that a certain part can withstand 8mA of current before breaking).
I don't see how this style of hypothesis verification can work in discussions where two parties hold completely different assumptions.
If person A were to hold that god exists and then run a test with his assumption as the Null hypothesis, after being unable to disprove the Null hypothesis, he would conclude that god exists.
If persion B were to hold that god does not exist and then run a test with his assumption as the Null hypothesis, he would conclude that god doesn't exist.
I may be missing something, but it seems to me the selection of the burden of proof for this argument is entirely arbitrary. In the absence of proof, I would assume the actual state is indeterminate (both true and false simultaneously).
PK = Priest Kill.
Religion is a thing of the past.
I was raised in a Southern Baptist church. Nothing more threatening, particularly to a newcomer. Everyone introducing themselves, "Hi, How are you?" ad nauseum.
For any Baptists listening, be cool. New people are in a new situation, don't know you, won't know you 10 minutes from now if you introduce yourself, and would be better served with a friendly "hi", and answer any questions (where is the...bathroom, nursery, etc).
Don't pick up the pho*(@)$*@&@!@ NO CARRIER
This is s joke. Christianity refuses to reflect upon itself and understand the present. Instead of a reflection of beliefs and their relevance in our world, the church continues to refuse conceptual evolution and decides instead to masquarade modernization through such ridiculous methods. The Accessibility of the church has to do with its teachings more than its method of delivery. Assuming that the article and site are true and legit, then this is only a pitiful attempt by institutionialized "religion" to skirt around the true issues hampering its growth. The blessing of the arcbishop of this venture only serves to undescore the desire of "religion" to recruit those unable to logically and rationally understand themselves and their place for themselves. For me, the accessibilty of the Church could only be achieved through the revision of the Bible, significant texts, and the church structure, not through pitiful medium migration. And just for the creator/owner/whoever of Church of Fools, who said that "if we don't like it, don't visit the site": I haven't visited the site--I have visited an opinion discussing forum where analysing and the perpetuating of arguments is purpose of its existence. This "if you disagree, get out" type mentality is truly one of the inherent problems of the church ideology in practice, and is utterly irrelevant here
I like their 11th Commandment Contest.
One of the runners-up was Thou Shalt Not Shag Sheep Unless Fully Welsh.
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
If memory serves, there was a tiny chapel in the prison break level of the first episode (the one that began with you in a very damaging electric chair-esque contraption). It looked innocent enough, but there was a hidden switch on the front of the podium/lectern thingie (that incidentally looked like a shroud of sorts but was in fact a somewhat distorted alien head, or something like that) that, if pushed,
- turned the light in the room red and evil-like,
- opened up a secret door near the back of the chapel,
- and flipped the cross upside-down (neat effect, that)
Behind the secret door (there may have been a stained glass window or two to bash) lay two floating alien brain guys, at least on normal, and the legless corpse of the Doom guy. Upon seeing the corpse, Duke cracks "Damn. That's one doomed Space Marine!"
There was indeed a (hanged) nun hanging in the rafters, near an atomic health powerup. Either that or she contained the powerup, I can't remember precisely...
God is. And I just happen to agree with Him.
An alledged pastor accuses his church of being judgemental towards it's members. And now you want me to stop "judging" him?
Who did Jesus hang around with? He hung around the poor and downtrodden. The only people who complained were the Pharisees. And Jesus had nothing nice to say to them. All this pastor needs to do, is recognize that his Church is in deep sin and get up in front of the congregation and point their sin out, tell them they need to repent and remind them of Christ. The problem with this pastor is that the only people judging are the members and they do it falsly based on people's appearances. There is no sin in righteous judgement. In fact, it's exactly the pastor's job.
I can be like this pastor and just ignore the fact that his church is falling away or I can point him back to God's word and what he says so he can work to better the situation.
Telling me to just stop judging him is just as bad as him throwing up his hands in the air and not chastizing his congregation as he should be doing as a pastor.
His church is in sin. And he's apparently doing nothing about it as he claims it's normal. It's sin. It doesn't matter how common the sin is, it's still sin.
It's about time he was judged by God's word and hopefully he'll get his act together. If you think judging churches is a new concept I think you need to read the New Testament a few dozen more times. Paul quite often wrote letters chastizing churches for allowing their members to sin while the leaders just ignored it and even encouraged it in some cases.
His church is corrupt. It's turned into a fashion show and a vocal contest. It's not wrong because I say so. It's wrong because God says so. And it's the pastor's job to steer the congregation away from sin. Again, not because I say so, but because God says so.
Ben
Work Safe Porn
Finally! The koinonia of the Eucharist is only a click away!
Now I can finally fall asleep in church from the comfort of my own bed instead of upright on a pew!
Disclaimer: This comment was generated by a Flock of Trained Microsoft Programmers for Aqua_Geek.
Just to set the record straight:
> until you can hand over your credit card and income details so they can conveniently extract 10% of your pre-tax income out of you.
1. I've never known a church to do that!
2. The Old Testament command for tithing was that they give a tenth of their INCREASE. So if you started the year with 500 cattle and ended with 700 cattle, you'd give (700-500)*10% or 20 cattle to the temple/Levites. So it's not your "pre-tax income."
3. The New Testament church, of which today's Christians are a part, has no formal giving requirement. Some churches tout the 10% figure but I believe they are not being theologically accurate. The principle in the NT church is that we are simply to be generous, for "God loves a cheerful giver."
Probably get crucified and die.
(bash.org quote thieved for amusement purposes)
Browsing the Ship of Fools site I came across the contest to pick an 11th commandment. The first winner was "Thou shalt not worship false pop idols". The top five choices won digital cameras. :-)
I don't really understand how that site (and organization) can call themselves "Christians" when their own theology heavily contradicts Biblical standards (and is also almost completely dogmatic; sort of like a "reinvention" of Christianity). They seem to be some kind of commercialistic pseudo-christian cult (i'm completely open to other people's views on this).
I wouldn't be suprised if their Virtual Church application was full of spyware or ads.
To show an example of how they have barely any foundation of all, look at their criticism of the Left Behind book series. They condemn it on the basis of their own opinion, without using any Biblical verses as a foundation (that is a very stupid thing to do in Christian circles such as mine, and is also the signs of a possible pseudochristian cult). To compare that in the Linux world (so more people can understand what I'm trying to say), it's almost exactly like SCO bashing the Linux community and the GPL. SCO provides absolutely no foundations for their arguments (which would be actual code, etc), and just rants on and on with their own opinions, while the Linux community just asks "prove it". That's what I'd like to ask the guy who wrote that column - "prove it, and site other documents and Biblical verses entirely to prove your point". It seems like people have become far too opinionated, to the point where they start ignoring almost everything factual, and also reject any form of correction.
Then they blash The Passion movie as being "the most violent movie ever seen", even though movies that came out around the same time such as the remakes Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Dawn of the Dead were far more violent in my opinion (I saw both, didn't like 'Massacre' and only liked the original 'Dawn', since the new one was sloppily done). Even movies preceding Passion were far more violent. Luckily the exaggeration of the violence has helped the Passion gain even larger audiences.
Nothing can top their "Biblical Curse Generator", which is absolutely sickening. What moron would just take random sentences from something (completely removing the context), and using them as authentic single-context "quotes"? If someone did that to the Islamic Quran nowadays, they'd be lynched.
Hmmm... they support laws for making it a criminal offense to "incite" religious hatred. I guess they don't like freedom of speech; especially since that law would also curb their own freedom of speech too. What if something they said was considered "religious hatred" and their isp connection was pulled? There goes their "virtual" church...
Maybe they are just a "ship of fools" after all.
#Secret Windows Source Code, in MS C% - if (uptime >= "24 hours") then bsod() else print "Windows License Violation!"
if you want it to
I can't really see how this virtual church is going to work. Altough it is a good effort to make the church more attractive to todays online community. But I believe it's the wrong way to do it.
Just as someone pointed out, there are going to be a bunch of kids (and adults) at every service flaming the whole time. The moderation of a virtual church would be horrendous.
I don't think a open chat is a good idea. It would be a lot better to have video streams of a real church service, which anyone can tune into. This has already been done by many organizations and churches, so it's really nothing new.
This is just wrong on so many levels.. "The blood of Christ, shed for you." *in underwear, toasting a beer
--- We need more Ron Paul!
Their arguments are impecable from a teologic point of view, but are normally socially invasive and often disruptive....
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
.... if they don't have a sense of humour and a bit of self deprecation.
We can't help it if sparkly witty people are mainly non religious ones.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The import thing to realize is that a church, like any other social group, has certain mores and conventions -- typically they are inherited from the ambient cultural group.
Example1: Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality, but he did mention that remarriage after divorce was a sin, and that the resulting relationship was adulterous. However, most churches today are OK with divorced couples marrying, having sex, and having a family, but they are not ok with gay sex or marriage. The difference is the cultural norms in their surrounding community have accepted one, but not the other. As soon as gay marriage becomes overwhelmingly accepted, it will be treated in the same way as divorce and bans on interest bearing loans.
Example2: The Southern Baptists split with the Northern Baptists over slavery. You can guess which baptist congregation thought it was a sin, and which one thought it wasn't. Both had scriptural arguments.
Example3: The U.S. is a society which focuses on individual success resulting from individual action (e.g. hard work, clean living.) Other cultures are more focused on collective success and collective responsibility (e.g. good schools, effective legal system, social welfare.) Therefore the U.S. churches "spiritualize" this bias by focusing on individual sin/repentance (being personally saved), as opposed to group sin/repentance (social justice), although one must look for relatively rare discussion of the former in the scriptures, since almost all exhortations in the old and new testaments, revolve around the latter. Indeed, most American Christians would consider it discrimination to be punished for something which they didn't individually do, but did* as a group, whereas the Bible is filled with examples or promises of group punishments (punishment of a race, of a generation, of a city.)
Now, getting back to the original point, if you find yourself not sharing the mores of your church (i.e. you think interest bearing loans are cruel exploitation, or you are gay) then your positions will be opposed in the church, as they would in the larger community. However, the *difference* is that opposition in the church is often interpreted as "God disagrees with you" which, to a sincere believer, is much worse than the community disagreeing with him. Indeed each church believes, although there is a long history of previous churches in other cultures gettings things wrong, that *now* the truth is revealed, and *they* have the correct word of God.
And, adding to this ostracism phenomenon, is that we have a very fragmented culture, broken up into many little pockets, each of which have different mores, and so the odds are good that the church you randomly pick will not share your views. Finally, people move a lot, and so can easily find themselves in a place where there is no church that they feel they can go to, and still remain a sincere believer, without a lot of inner tension.
In this way, *every* church is threatening.
And there is no real solution, but it's certainly a step backwards to classify a church as "bad" if someone says it's threatening, since this just perpetuates the assumption that some church subcultures (e.g. adultery ok, homosexuality not ok) are better than others ("committed" homosexuality ok, adultery not ok.) The reason why this can't be the case, is that all of the subcultures are formed out of confused, fallen people, and then each church inherits the mores of it's ambient group. For instance, Jesus, when discussing adultery, made the point "This is wrong, but you were too weak, so Moses let you grant a certificate of divorce. Nevertheless, it's adultery. In fact, even wishing to have sex with a married woman is adultery." So basically each church makes allowances for accepting "sinful" behavior that is predominant in the community, and does not accept "sinful" behavior that is on the margins.
The only recommendation I have is to do some work and find a church that you can live with. In a major urban area, this should b
When in doubt, have a man come through a door with a gun in his hand.
please please stop posting this stuff where it can be read during breakfast! snorting hot coffee through out your nose and still laughing is painful
what an incredibly stupid idea for a MUD.
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Assuming you meant 'theological,' church [i]is[/i] about God, so surely what goes on there should revolve around him, rather than people? Ad how is soending time with God socially invasive or disruptive?
Assuming you meant "And how is spending", your entire statement is socially invasive. I've always been under the impression that your relationship with God is a personal thing, and your current redemption ranking is your own business, and that the purpose of church was to network with other like-minded people.
Same reason we have support groups for drug addictions, only the purpose of those groups is to *stop* the addiction.
Like what I said? You might like my music
Hate to troll but ship of fools is a parody website..Not a "Christian website". Note the 11th commandment competition on the frontpage, or the Biblical curse generator. I know most slashdotters are American, but come on ! You've been onioned.
"Ship of Fools" and "Church of Fools".
Since only fools would believe an invisible man lives in the sky and is all-seeing and all-knowing.
Do they also believe in Santa? The Tooth Fairy? The Easter Bunny?
Religion is for people afraid of going to hell.
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
--Diderot
Our relationship with God is both personal and collective. There is no 'redemption ranking.' We are either saved or we aren't. This is in one sense a personal matter, in that no-one can make the decision for us, however we are commanded by Jesus to go and tell others of their need to repent and to watch out for each other. When we go to church, we're not networking, but rather worshipping God, which is what we are created for. As Christians, we need built up in our faith, by learning from the Bible and and by spending time praising God in song and by serving him. It is also good to spend time praying together, encouraging one another and being accountable to one another. Yes, social interaction is a part of church life, however it is not the focus. Our first priority should be God and we should look forward to spending time learning for about him and praising him. Reading Romans 12, Corinthians and Philippians for just a few passages on how we should be spending our time.
When you say that my statement is 'socially invasive,' you seem to assume that our first priority is spending time with each other and and it is unreasonable for God to expect us to spend time with him. Given how much time we spend with other people and not even thinking about God during the week, is it unreasonable to ask for a little more concentration in church? We should be looking to have God involved in every aspect of our lives and embrace that, rather than seeing it as an invasion.
There is no 'redemption ranking.' We are either saved or we aren't.
Aha.
When you say that my statement is 'socially invasive,'
Before you said that, you said this:
however we are commanded by Jesus to go and tell others of their need to repent
I think the statement of social invasiveness is properly demonstrated.
Reading Romans 12, Corinthians and Philippians for just a few passages on how we should be spending our time.
I seem to recall Corinthians having a number of passages dedicated to how men should keep their hair cut and not wear hats and women should keep their heads covered, or not cut their hair.
Our first priority should be God
Then,
Given how much time we spend with other people and not even thinking about God during the week,
Followed by,
We should be looking to have God involved in every aspect of our lives and embrace that
Are you sure you've got your priorities straight? I mean, if you're looking to have God involved in every aspect of your life, then why is it considered reasonable to spend all kinds of time during the week with other people and not thinking about God at all? On the other hand, if you are thinking about God all through the week, then church is just redundant, and therefore unnecessary, isn't it? So what is it?
Not to mention that Judgement Day will come without announcement, and so forth, and you must be in a state of grace at that exact moment or you're not going with Him, so you can't afford not to think about God all the time. He could be there right now waiting for you to sin so he can call up judgement day and send you to your eternal tormentor. Repent now, before it's too late! Brother, I fear for your soul. I really do.
Like what I said? You might like my music
"Excuse me. I have a question: 'Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?'". - Paraphrased from Homer
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
Surprised no on has yet but here it is: http://www.i-church.org/
I saw the title and thought it was about a video game where you have to make a successful church. Add a fund raiser, lose some parishoners who don't want to dish out more cash. Add an activity, lose some of your budget. Take out a loan for a building expansion and see if your parishoners can flit the bill. Make a dogmatic decision/statement and see if the people stay or go. Hours spent praying, visiting the sick, cleaning the church, preparing the sermon. Pay a choir director instead of relying on volunteers. Weekly cost of publishing the bulletins. Sunday school supplies!
It seems to me that keeping a church going has a lot variables and could be every bit as engrossing as SimCity and its ilk.
Catholic Sunday masses are now held in Second Life. I believe the first one was just yesterday and as far as I am aware, whoever is running it plans to hold them every sunday morning.
Explaining the gospel to someone need not be socially invasive. Occasionally friends talk about important subjects.
I never said it was acceptable. God should be involved everywhere. The places where he's not are my failing.
Having God involved in every aspect of my life doesn't mean that every aspect suddenly becomes the same. Church is relatively unique in that there will be a minister there explaining the Bible better than I could, with relevant application to my life. A minister can spend several hours researching a passage then explaining it, that i otherwise couldn't spend. It provides an opportunity for corporate praise, which is a great way to worship God and immensely encouraging personally, when I look round and see so many other people enjoying praising him. Church is where I receive Communion from time to time. It's where bible study groups get organised. it's where I meet other Christians.
Christ died once and for all on the cross and my past, present and future sins were forgiven when I asked for forgiveness and accepted Jesus as Lord. God s not maliciously waiting to spring the second coming on me to try and catch me unawares. On the contrary, it is being held off so that as many as possible might be saved. My salvation is dependent, nt on me working at thinking of God all the time, but on God's grace. I can't save mself, only he can save me.
While we are called not to sin and continued wilful sinning is a sign that we have not truly asked for forgiveness, once we are saved God equips us with his Holy Spirit to resist temptation and in his grace forgives us when we do. If God wants me saved, there is nothing that can get in the way of that, not even my on sinful nature. nothing can separate me from the love of God. If you're genuinely interested in understanding this, I suggest you get a good book on the Epistle to the Romans on use it to read through it.
I have already repented and the Son of God died for me. What could I possibly fear if God himself has guaranteed my salvation?
How will this get people to 'come to God?' Yeah, a VR church is cool, but for people who have been in virtual 3D environs since Wolfenstein, it's no biggie. How about saying why your book is any better than "Horton Hears a Who" as a basis for a belief system?
I'm in the hole of the broadband donut.
PocketChapel.com
Design your personal altar and take it with you on a USB Cross Carrier.
I'm not really sure the idea of a virtual church will catch on. It may be ok for those that are irregular churchgoers to begin with, but it's doubtful that those who are active in church events, socializing, and things such as communion will find this appealing.
Where I do think this would become useful is in the case of confessions: Perhaps by email or some more secure method, one could "confess" or just ask a priest for guidance - useful when you've got something on your chest at a given moment but the church isn't open.
If I was a Christian, I doubt I would want a pastor/organization to call me a fool:
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Thou God did call people fools himself (see Luke 12:20), so I wonder if he/she/it is in danger of hell fire.
"approved by the church hierarchy"
Unless you've got a sample of god's voice saying "thou shalt" use this app, make that "approved by a church hierarchy".
--
make install -not war
If you take "communion" not to mean the partaking of the Eucharist, but of sharing the same beliefs with others, then you're in a "virtual communion" right now on /.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Of all the non threatening social situations, I can't imagine a less threatening atmosphere than a church.
With the pretext, "Do this or you will burn in hell for eternity," some might consider it very threatening.
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
There are only a few requirements to be a Christian - believe in Jesus and take him as Lord and Saviour.
;) ).
:).
But there are billions of different people out there with different needs and interests. And those needs and interests change.
Find a church where you can help and be helped.
As for idiosyncracies - in my church we stand to sing and sit down to pray. Since everyone is regarded as a priest - anyone can call for a song to be sung or choose to read a verse from the bible or pray. Except that women aren't supposed to preach/teach during the worship (but some of the sharing/prayers/verse readings sometimes get pretty close to teaching
Of course this method of worship may not scale as well for larger churches (you can't have thousands in the same "collision domain").
Also the "anyone can pick a song" makes it a bit more stressful for the musicians as compared to "led worship" where the songs are chosen in advance by a worship leader... But the musicians sure get pretty good
As for judging - let God do the judging of nonbelievers. You can actually judge other Christians, while necessary sometimes (for the sake/benefit of the Church), it is a responsibility I wouldn't take lightly.
Ever heard the phrase "time will tell?" Well time has indeed "told", still after 2000 years of people who believe in Jesus. And going strong.
If time will tell, I guess we'd better all convert to Hinduism then.
"America has done some terrible things. But I know that Americans don't cheer when innocents die." -Dave Barry
Again with the god-squadders using their mod points to squelch free speech that impugns their worldview.
It's amazing how many hypocrites there are in this world. Not just hypocrites, but political criminals. You should be ashamed both for your lack of support of freedom and your lack of morality.
Here's one explanation.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
I mean.. there are some very important issues we need to address here.
Can I really have some wine when the church takes communion?
Like do you get to choose what your virtual self looks like?
What if my baby starts crying during service.. Will there be a nursery?
Will I have a good singing voice so I can impress the cutie sitting next to me?
How many outfits does my online girl get?
When Jesus was addressing the subject of divorce and remarriage he was speaking specifically to those who divorced *in order to* remarry someone else. This is not the same as someone who has divorced for reasons of unfaithfulness &/or violence etc.
:)
Secondly, Jesus did address the issue of holy sexuality by pointing back to Adam and Eve and the fact they were created for each other "male and female". There is no hint of homosexuality tolerated in either New or Old T, the only 'evidence' is derived from convoluted and strained conjecture.
I agree that some churches project their mores into the realm of "God says thi..." when they have no scripture to back it up (or misused). However, this is more a reflection on general humanity. Look at how each generation mocks the previous for the unethical behaviour of the previous, as if somehow time makes us morally superior to those who came before - merely because we recognise the problems of before. Yet despite all our advances we are still as depraved and corrupt as those who preceeded us.
Indeed, we could well learn from a bit of old fashioned collective responsibility
Amen brother!
... scary
:)
The real problem with fundamentalists is that they believe the fundamentals of Christianity... and that's scary! Imagine, believing the Bible to be true and Jesus was really God?
The problem with people who label others "fundamentalists" is they put all their stock into straw-man arguments to bolster their house of cards built on sand
jayb
As long as you're being a grammar Nazi, you shouldn't connect two complete sentences with a comma. That should read:
You shouldn't split an infinitive; it's just bad grammar.
---- Just another spud server.
Help me out. I can't figure out if you are an atheist or not.
For more discussions about atheism, check out my journal
If you want to call me an atheist, knock yourself out. I don't claim any religion, and I don't really think it's anybody else's business. If I were to pick a label for myself, I'd choose Satanist, just because my personal philosophies are more in line with Anton LaVey's, but not completely. But I've survived enough fundamentalist tripe that I can pass myself off as as devout or fanatic a Christian as I wish. (on the other hand, I've devoured enough pagan and other 'alternative' tripe that I can do the same there)
When it comes down to it, I don't claim any religion for myself because I wish to solve the problem of religion, and claiming a religion of any kind, even by an innocent label such as 'atheist' only contributes to the problem.
Like what I said? You might like my music
Watch "The Passion Of The Chirst" to see what he endured for us.
I don't understand why crucifixion was needed for salvation, do you?
You only need to accept this gift to be saved.
I'll accept that gift after judgment day.
You can choose to take the present, or you can leave it. It's your choice.
That's the problem I have with Christian theology. A lot of atheists that I respect are going to end up hell because of the cruel way in which Jesus discriminates. You understand this, I understand this, and if Jesus were a better person, he wouldn't have made faith a prerequisite for salvation.
If it were possible, wouldn't you have helped the Jews, Romani, and homosexuals escape from the concentration camps? Jesus should help them escape from hell. He shouldn't have created hell in the first place. Even christian charities help non-christians. Shouldn't Jesus do the same?
Do you think that killing and/or torturing all the unfaithful is the right thing for a god to do?
What killing and/or torturing are you talking about?
I am talking about creating the lake of fire, and sending the unfaithful there. Please read this it's not very long, and it will help you understand how some people view the teachings of Christ's disciples.
Ah, but I argue that atheism is not a religion.
// atheism
It is instead, the null set.
Consider this programming analogy:
Religion religion;
religion = new Religion("Javaism");
religion = null;
Still, if one were to consider atheism an instance of religion, then it's one that predates all others and that will remain strong when the current majors are reduced to an obscure entry in Wikipedia.
If we ever encounter alien sentients likewise infected with religion, the only thing we'll have in common will be atheism.
Humans are born atheist and then forced to convert by their legal wards.
For more discussions about atheism, check out my journal
Well, following in your analogy, then, you'll find in my mind no variable Religion, regardless of whether it's a Null, None, "", or whatever. I don't waste any processor cycles or compiler passes even trying to have such a variable, it just doesn't belong. ;)
And, for the record, the only thing I find more irritating than someone trying to convert me to Christianity (or any other religion) is someone trying to convince me I'm an atheist. I'm not, get over it. Just like I don't need a fairy-tale explanation of how the world came to be (I'm satisfied to not know, and that I'll probably never know), I also don't need to be classified into any religious data type.
So, my counter-argument is that I'm an even farther step from religion than you, closer to the origin, based on your post. In this day and age, that would mean I'm more grown up. ;P
Like what I said? You might like my music
been studying Spanish too much lately...