One last thing, India is following the Japenese model of targeting various industries. For example, bollywood is heavily subsidized by the gov. even to this day. The same is true of software. That was their targets. One of my in-laws work on this for the gov. As you know, India is trying to expand into space and energy (he does the energy part). So, now, all of that is heavily subsidized.
And to be honest, America needs to raise tariffs against China. China has over 400 tariffs while subsidizing/dumps goods on western foreign markets, esp. America. Europe is next.
Thats funny. That is just what Europe did and China currently does.
Europe told all of their colonies to send them raw material and then did their best to prevent anybody from competing against them.
America was simply a massive economic powerhouse because of WWII.
Now china is cheating massively, and the world allow it. Sickening.
Chinese owned businesses are still under gov. orders. And part of that is they MUST fragment this. What they want to do, is use their overwhelming population and sales to drive down prices, but then control the standards.
IOW, doing it there will help nothing.
Generally, India's money should be at about 30 rupees to the dollar. It is now over 65. that is because they are directly manipulating against the dollar.
This has gotten old.
Not all are remotely controlled. More importantly, I suspect that if these drones are set up so that upon losing the connection, it will simply attack any non-friendly aircraft out there.
Good point. BUT, I think that is exactly the case. They are just saying that do not want the MS type ppl running around lobbying and buying their pols. Considering that MS and others have worked closely with NSA, and very likely that are loads more backdoors inside windows, it would make sense.
stuff, is that Windows and perhaps OSX will die and open source will take off on the desktop. A number of nations will be thinking that if MS works closely with NSA, than they certainly have a back door there.
is where we should be testing robots and inflatable space modules.
I am amazing that Bigelow and IDL Dover have not volunteered to put one or two of their modules there. In fact, for anything destined for the Moon or Mars, they should be field tested at the south pole for a minimum of 5 years, if not 10.
The same should be done for the robots.
Paul is a constant liar. He sat on the sub-committees and knew about it. And rand paul is no more a civil libertarian than republicans are fiscal conservatives. They all scream about it, but are liars, through and through since they are behind the vast majority of the deficits..
OK, now, out of EVERYTHING that has been around, and the fact that, Curunir_wolf offered up NOTHING of value (all of the warrants going through is NOT a big deal. That could simply indicate that the various groups were doing a decent job), what YOU posted, might be the issue that I was looking for.
I will say that I have been busy so have not gone through it, BUT if the data backs up the title, then I would say that is a real problem.
Rand paul has told so many lies it is disgusting. He KNEW about PRISM and the rest of it, just like the others (including Sensenbrenner who is a typical lying neo-con). The man continues to lie over and over. As it is, he is pulling nothing but BS. He submits bills that make you neo-cons feel wonderful, but have ZERO chance of passing. Likewise, he is not willing to compromise UNTIL, it will hurt his election.
The recent illegal immigration bill is a GREAT example of what a dick that guy is. First, he was opposed to giving ANY amnesty to ANY illegals. Why? Because it was damaging to USA due to costs and because it went against our laws (which both are true).
Now, he wants to give TOTAL AMNESTY TO ALL OF THEM. Why? Because he hopes to kiss the ass off the illegals and latino world.
However, that dick then pushes for a fence on the southern border. How much will it costs? a cool trillion plus. Money that we can not afford. BUT, it gets better. that dick know that 40% of the illegals are here via LEGAL MEANS. Yes, they came in on visas (student, tourists, etc) and simply stayed. Likewise, another 20% came over Canadian, oceanic and great lake borders. IOW, less than 40% came over the mexican border. Yet, I see him doing NOTHING for the rest of the borders. Just the mexican border. At an ENORMOUS costs. In the end, he voted against it, because he did not get to vote if the southern border was secured enough. Give me a break. There has NEVER EVER been any border secured in history. Heck, east Germany and israel were MUCH SMALLER borders and they could not hold their down. Basically, he weaseled out.
So, not only is he as bad as the other neo-cons, reagan and W, by throwing away money, BUT, he is either a racists or just willing to buy elections with TRILLIONS of debt. Rand Paul is as worthless as Tandcredo was. He will be gone in time. Sadly, you fools will vote for him for a while, ignoring his many broken promises, while giving him all sorts of passes.
BUT, back to the real issue. You have shown NO PROOF of the accusations that you have made because there IS NO PROOF. All you have done is been a blowheart like your hero. You have made numerous accusations, without a single thing to back it up. And do you know why you have not presented anything? Because Snowden made a number of assertions, but provided no proof. Absolutely NOTHING of any value. Except for talking about the spying that we do on foreign nations (which is treason in any nation's book).
So, let me know when you have REAL proof that we have been listening in on phone calls with out a warrant, or that NSA is going through our data willy nilly without warrant, then lets go after them. BUT until then, your accusations, and his, have less validity than the GD birthers BS had.
WOW. THat is a first time I have been accused of that. If you think that I am shilling, please look through my previous postings. And note that I have a lower UID than you do. And even that was with my spending a long time on here as an AC since I did not want to be known.
IOW, I am not shilling. I have my issues with the spying IFF they are listening in, etc. BUT, I have no issue with them using metadata. I DO have an issue with the fact that Snowden, like Manning, are traitors and should be executed. They are Americans that gave up a large amount of nationally related data that compromised USA. OTOH, I think that we should not touch Assange. Why? Because he did not take a loyality oath nor is he American. As such, we have NOTHING on him.
Al Queida? Really? There are plenty of "threats" to national security. As I said, protecting from those threats must not compromise the rule of law, and the rights of American citizens. This level of domestic spying does just that. And since it's not even effective enough to prevent things like the Boston Marathon bombing, there is no reason to violate people's rights for it. In fact, there is no justification for violating the Constitutional restrictions on the Federal government's authority, even for the claimed purpose of "protecting the American people."
And you claim that the constitution has been violated, yet, you provide ZERO proof of it. All you have is a bunch of accusations, with no proof.
Apparently, you haven't read it. There is ample evidence that the Fourth Amendment, the Fourteenth Amendment, the First Amendment, and the Enumerated Powers in Article 1 have all been violated.
The Fourth Amendment obliges the government to demonstrate probable cause before conducting invasive surveillance. The government has made a mockery of that protection by relying on select Supreme Court cases, decided before the era of the public Internet and cellphones, to argue that citizens have no expectation of privacy in either phone metadata or in e-mails or other private electronic messages that it stores with third parties. This hairsplitting is inimical to privacy and contrary to what at least five justices ruled just last year in a case called United States v. Jones. One of the most conservative justices on the Court, Samuel A. Alito Jr., wrote that where even public information about individuals is monitored over the long term, at some point, government crosses a line and must comply with the protections of the Fourth Amendment. That principle is, if anything, even more true for Americans’ sensitive nonpublic information like phone metadata and social networking activity.
Again, you have presented ZERO proof that illegal things went on. What you appear to be arguing is that the gov. has no rights to metadata, or anything sent clear text, and nothing could be further from the truth. It you sent it in public space, then it is PUBLIC. For example, if you hold a joint in your hand, and you live in any state other WA or CO, you will be busted. Why? BECAUSE YOU DID IT IN THE OPEN. Likewise, if you are drinking in public, or shouting fire in a movie theater, then you are in the PUBLIC space. As such, the gov. has total rights to deal with things.
NOW, if you have something in a purse, a backpack, or in your car and the gov. has no probable cause, then they can not search you or YOUR car. BTW, if you are driving somebody else's car and they are not with you when pulled over, the police can search since it is NOT yours.
Now, as to alito's statements, could you at least show a link that shows him ruling that NSA has crossed a line? My guess is that you can not.
In fact, other than spouting off about what YOU believe, you have shown absolutely NOTHING to back up your accusations, or anything.
Worse, the fact that you do not see AQ or Taliban as a threat to USA, shows that you are pissing upwind and hoping that it will hit somebody else as well.
Back at you, with your "well there are safeguards and rules, they're secret, but they work." Because you say it is the case? I think there is ample reason not to trust those statements, considering the credibility of those such as Clapper and Pence, and other reasons, as I have pointed out.
Please show me where I said that. You can not, because I have NOT. I have questions and issues about the safeguards. I have since 2005 and have said so in other places that I have posted. However, when all else fails and you have nothhing left, then you simply attack the person and put words into their mouth. Right?
And Clapper actually spoke the truth, as it is understood things. Basically, if an analysts is listening in on a call which turns out to be by an American, then they have to hang up (they way that I understand it). As such, he spoke the truth. BUT, the REAL question is why did a bunch of dick neo-cons that KNEW the answer yet threw it out at them? That speaks volume.
What targets? Is that secret too? All Mike Pence says is that they are "bad guys." To me, the bad guys are mainly right there in the building where Mike Pence works. I think Mike Pence is talking about US Citizens, that seems to be the target. Irregardless of who they are trying to catch, the end does not justify the means. They claim to be "protecting the American people," but when they do that by lying, and hiding secrets, I doubt their sincerity. Besides, their sworn duty is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, first and foremost. Claiming it's okay to violate the Constitution for "public safety" is, itself, Treason.
You HAVE to be kidding me. You do not think that AQ or taliban is a threat to America? You do not think that 9/11 occurred? And the fact that the Chinese, Iranian, North Koreans, and even Russians (quasi issue here) are spying on us with a full court press is not an issue? Seriously? If you think that they are not a threat, then you have an issue with your logic. Or should I be asking, what nation you are from?
And you claim that the constitution has been violated, yet, you provide ZERO proof of it. All you have is a bunch of accusations, with no proof.
BTW, I asked how YOU would safeguard this, and yet, you come up with NOTHING? Why not?
I am sorry, but what did NSA do that was illegal with listening in on Al Qaeda, Taliban, China, Iran, and North Korea?
I am curious. What exactly do you think that we were doing in Afghanistan for the last decade (besides having the neo-cons fuck things up)? I mean do you not think that we were at war there and that Al Qaeda and Taliban are NOT enemies of USA (let alone the west)?
And since when do you need a declaration of war to have somebody be an enemy? Technically, we did not have a war declared against USSR. Yet, Rosenbergs were executed for giving confidential information to them.
I could continue on and on, but what is the point of it? The fact is, that the outrage by the neo-cons, is just another made up garbage. However, this one has backing with far left, and Libertarians, all of whom have NO idea of what is really going on. I mean YOU have made a number of accusations, yet, you are showing no proof of it.
Agreed.
I have already dealt with 2 chinese spies and I was not up to much at all. Yes, we are the most spied upon nation. No doubt about it.
And the nations, and even those on this site, that are gripping about all this, remind me of the neo-cons attacking Clinton for screwing women, while they were hot and heavy with their own mistresses.
That's easy because it's all in secret, and everybody is on the same team. You think if someone goes beyond the 7 days they are allowed to listen to calls without a warrant that anyone is going to raise a stink? The secret warrants are always granted anyway, and none of those guys are going to say anything about going beyond the secret rules. Hell, even when cops get caught on camera beating up citizens all the other cops circle the wagon and defend them and act like it was all perfectly okay - they were just "protecting the public". No wonder Snowden decided he had to get out of the country before he said anything. You deviate from being a team player in that environment and you're toast.
First off, if anybody is listening in to random calls and does not have a warrant, I am opposed to that. That is truly an invasion of our privacy. However, I am not convinced one way or another that is the case. Right now, you have one fool, Nadler, who claimed that it was the case, then retracted it. BUT, we do not know what is the case. However, I will say again, that if anybody is listening in on random calls, I am opposed to that.
Secondly, how do you know that every warrant is granted? Do you have proof of that? If so, I would like to see that. And just because you say that is the case, does not make it so.
In the NSA game, there is NO scrutiny whatsoever. No citizen cell phones. No public court records. No accountability other than all the foxes pointing at all the other foxes going "No, no, we have rules and a system and we're all watching each other." Then a few hens go missing and SURPRISE! None of the foxes saw anything - must have been a terrorist that slipped through their oh-so-important net.
If there is no scrutiny, then we have an issue. The fact is, that a court and 2 sub-committees are supposed to be supervising all of this. So, are you claiming that they are not? Or are you trying to claim that we do not know if they are doing their job? If the later, than what exactly do you propose? Keep in mind that we do not want to tell those legitimate targets that we are looking in, that we are doing this. However, I agree that if this is out-of-hand, that it needs to be controlled. So, again, I will ask: What do you propose?
Thanks for providing the view of the political class, which views all this as perfectly okay, and can't understand why anyone would be upset. After all, you have secretly decided that secretly keeping all this data is okay because there is a secret court that makes secret decisions and secret warrants and the people really need to just trust it all to be perfectly fine.
Give me a fucking break about the 'political class'. I was simply a designer and developer. Nothing more. It was fun and very interesting. I have nothing to do with final implementations (I have no idea if it actually was). BUT, there is little doubt that you suffer from the same 'you are either with us or against us' neo-con attitude. The fact is, that I have NO issue with listening in, if there is a real reason for national security. After all, one of the biggest purposes of our nation, is national security. Likewise, the BS about metadata is just that: BS. OTOH, if they are really listening in, then we have a serious problem. BTW, I have posted elsewhere and here, that I do not object to NSA having this because they have NO ENFORCEMENT capabilities. They simply turn over evidence to other groups (CIA|FBI|DOD|?). Who you do NOT want to have this is any group with enforcement capability AND with political ties. NSA is fairly apolitical.
Oh, and had you paid attention back in 2004, 2005, 2006, this was all in the press. It was ALL OVER THE NEWS. IOW, you are simply re-hashing what was talked about 7-10 years ago.
Slashdot Mirror
He is a hard core republican, per his writing.
And now, based on his actions, I would say that he will fit right in with the current GOP.
One last thing, India is following the Japenese model of targeting various industries. For example, bollywood is heavily subsidized by the gov. even to this day. The same is true of software. That was their targets. One of my in-laws work on this for the gov. As you know, India is trying to expand into space and energy (he does the energy part). So, now, all of that is heavily subsidized.
So many things wrong with you said. First off, your economic growth is over 5% now, but has been around 10% for most of the last decade.
Secondly, India exports far more to USA, than USA exports to India. And that has been going on for the last decade. As such, your money should be strengthening against the dollar, not getting weaker. Yet, you can see that that with that ithe rupee against the yuan has gone in the right direction (i.e. when China imports more into your nation, the yuan should strengthen, which it does), while USA's money has strengthened against yours. That is backwards from where it should be. If India allows it to free flow, then the rupee will strengthen against the dollar because of so much one-sided trade.
India is manipulating their money against America, just like China does. And they do it to gain an advantage with the programmers.
no. Not due to patents. It was so that they could control the standard. IOW, they are using their economic might/consumer base to control things.
And to be honest, America needs to raise tariffs against China. China has over 400 tariffs while subsidizing/dumps goods on western foreign markets, esp. America. Europe is next.
Thats funny. That is just what Europe did and China currently does.
Europe told all of their colonies to send them raw material and then did their best to prevent anybody from competing against them.
America was simply a massive economic powerhouse because of WWII.
Now china is cheating massively, and the world allow it. Sickening.
Chinese owned businesses are still under gov. orders. And part of that is they MUST fragment this. What they want to do, is use their overwhelming population and sales to drive down prices, but then control the standards.
IOW, doing it there will help nothing.
India has been manipulating their money for a LONG time. And with an economic growth rate of over 5%, I think that argument is BS.
Generally, India's money should be at about 30 rupees to the dollar. It is now over 65. that is because they are directly manipulating against the dollar.
This has gotten old.
Then it depends on numbers and how well they work, just like in human fighting.
Not all are remotely controlled. More importantly, I suspect that if these drones are set up so that upon losing the connection, it will simply attack any non-friendly aircraft out there.
Good point. BUT, I think that is exactly the case. They are just saying that do not want the MS type ppl running around lobbying and buying their pols. Considering that MS and others have worked closely with NSA, and very likely that are loads more backdoors inside windows, it would make sense.
stuff, is that Windows and perhaps OSX will die and open source will take off on the desktop. A number of nations will be thinking that if MS works closely with NSA, than they certainly have a back door there.
is where we should be testing robots and inflatable space modules.
I am amazing that Bigelow and IDL Dover have not volunteered to put one or two of their modules there. In fact, for anything destined for the Moon or Mars, they should be field tested at the south pole for a minimum of 5 years, if not 10.
The same should be done for the robots.
It is being done for illegals, not legals.
Paul is a constant liar. He sat on the sub-committees and knew about it. And rand paul is no more a civil libertarian than republicans are fiscal conservatives. They all scream about it, but are liars, through and through since they are behind the vast majority of the deficits..
OK, now, out of EVERYTHING that has been around, and the fact that, Curunir_wolf offered up NOTHING of value (all of the warrants going through is NOT a big deal. That could simply indicate that the various groups were doing a decent job), what YOU posted, might be the issue that I was looking for.
I will say that I have been busy so have not gone through it, BUT if the data backs up the title, then I would say that is a real problem.
Thanx. I did not know about this one.
Fuck youself in turn.
Rand paul has told so many lies it is disgusting. He KNEW about PRISM and the rest of it, just like the others (including Sensenbrenner who is a typical lying neo-con). The man continues to lie over and over. As it is, he is pulling nothing but BS. He submits bills that make you neo-cons feel wonderful, but have ZERO chance of passing. Likewise, he is not willing to compromise UNTIL, it will hurt his election.
The recent illegal immigration bill is a GREAT example of what a dick that guy is. First, he was opposed to giving ANY amnesty to ANY illegals. Why? Because it was damaging to USA due to costs and because it went against our laws (which both are true).
Now, he wants to give TOTAL AMNESTY TO ALL OF THEM. Why? Because he hopes to kiss the ass off the illegals and latino world.
However, that dick then pushes for a fence on the southern border. How much will it costs? a cool trillion plus. Money that we can not afford. BUT, it gets better. that dick know that 40% of the illegals are here via LEGAL MEANS. Yes, they came in on visas (student, tourists, etc) and simply stayed. Likewise, another 20% came over Canadian, oceanic and great lake borders. IOW, less than 40% came over the mexican border. Yet, I see him doing NOTHING for the rest of the borders. Just the mexican border. At an ENORMOUS costs. In the end, he voted against it, because he did not get to vote if the southern border was secured enough. Give me a break. There has NEVER EVER been any border secured in history. Heck, east Germany and israel were MUCH SMALLER borders and they could not hold their down. Basically, he weaseled out.
So, not only is he as bad as the other neo-cons, reagan and W, by throwing away money, BUT, he is either a racists or just willing to buy elections with TRILLIONS of debt. Rand Paul is as worthless as Tandcredo was. He will be gone in time. Sadly, you fools will vote for him for a while, ignoring his many broken promises, while giving him all sorts of passes.
BUT, back to the real issue. You have shown NO PROOF of the accusations that you have made because there IS NO PROOF. All you have done is been a blowheart like your hero. You have made numerous accusations, without a single thing to back it up. And do you know why you have not presented anything? Because Snowden made a number of assertions, but provided no proof. Absolutely NOTHING of any value. Except for talking about the spying that we do on foreign nations (which is treason in any nation's book).
So, let me know when you have REAL proof that we have been listening in on phone calls with out a warrant, or that NSA is going through our data willy nilly without warrant, then lets go after them. BUT until then, your accusations, and his, have less validity than the GD birthers BS had.
WOW. THat is a first time I have been accused of that. If you think that I am shilling, please look through my previous postings. And note that I have a lower UID than you do. And even that was with my spending a long time on here as an AC since I did not want to be known.
IOW, I am not shilling. I have my issues with the spying IFF they are listening in, etc. BUT, I have no issue with them using metadata. I DO have an issue with the fact that Snowden, like Manning, are traitors and should be executed. They are Americans that gave up a large amount of nationally related data that compromised USA. OTOH, I think that we should not touch Assange. Why? Because he did not take a loyality oath nor is he American. As such, we have NOTHING on him.
Al Queida? Really? There are plenty of "threats" to national security. As I said, protecting from those threats must not compromise the rule of law, and the rights of American citizens. This level of domestic spying does just that. And since it's not even effective enough to prevent things like the Boston Marathon bombing, there is no reason to violate people's rights for it. In fact, there is no justification for violating the Constitutional restrictions on the Federal government's authority, even for the claimed purpose of "protecting the American people."
And you claim that the constitution has been violated, yet, you provide ZERO proof of it. All you have is a bunch of accusations, with no proof.
Apparently, you haven't read it. There is ample evidence that the Fourth Amendment, the Fourteenth Amendment, the First Amendment, and the Enumerated Powers in Article 1 have all been violated. The Fourth Amendment obliges the government to demonstrate probable cause before conducting invasive surveillance. The government has made a mockery of that protection by relying on select Supreme Court cases, decided before the era of the public Internet and cellphones, to argue that citizens have no expectation of privacy in either phone metadata or in e-mails or other private electronic messages that it stores with third parties. This hairsplitting is inimical to privacy and contrary to what at least five justices ruled just last year in a case called United States v. Jones. One of the most conservative justices on the Court, Samuel A. Alito Jr., wrote that where even public information about individuals is monitored over the long term, at some point, government crosses a line and must comply with the protections of the Fourth Amendment. That principle is, if anything, even more true for Americans’ sensitive nonpublic information like phone metadata and social networking activity.
Again, you have presented ZERO proof that illegal things went on. What you appear to be arguing is that the gov. has no rights to metadata, or anything sent clear text, and nothing could be further from the truth. It you sent it in public space, then it is PUBLIC. For example, if you hold a joint in your hand, and you live in any state other WA or CO, you will be busted. Why? BECAUSE YOU DID IT IN THE OPEN. Likewise, if you are drinking in public, or shouting fire in a movie theater, then you are in the PUBLIC space. As such, the gov. has total rights to deal with things.
NOW, if you have something in a purse, a backpack, or in your car and the gov. has no probable cause, then they can not search you or YOUR car. BTW, if you are driving somebody else's car and they are not with you when pulled over, the police can search since it is NOT yours.
Now, as to alito's statements, could you at least show a link that shows him ruling that NSA has crossed a line? My guess is that you can not.
In fact, other than spouting off about what YOU believe, you have shown absolutely NOTHING to back up your accusations, or anything.
Worse, the fact that you do not see AQ or Taliban as a threat to USA, shows that you are pissing upwind and hoping that it will hit somebody else as well.
Back at you, with your "well there are safeguards and rules, they're secret, but they work." Because you say it is the case? I think there is ample reason not to trust those statements, considering the credibility of those such as Clapper and Pence, and other reasons, as I have pointed out.
Please show me where I said that. You can not, because I have NOT. I have questions and issues about the safeguards. I have since 2005 and have said so in other places that I have posted. However, when all else fails and you have nothhing left, then you simply attack the person and put words into their mouth. Right?
And Clapper actually spoke the truth, as it is understood things. Basically, if an analysts is listening in on a call which turns out to be by an American, then they have to hang up (they way that I understand it). As such, he spoke the truth. BUT, the REAL question is why did a bunch of dick neo-cons that KNEW the answer yet threw it out at them? That speaks volume.
What targets? Is that secret too? All Mike Pence says is that they are "bad guys." To me, the bad guys are mainly right there in the building where Mike Pence works. I think Mike Pence is talking about US Citizens, that seems to be the target. Irregardless of who they are trying to catch, the end does not justify the means. They claim to be "protecting the American people," but when they do that by lying, and hiding secrets, I doubt their sincerity. Besides, their sworn duty is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, first and foremost. Claiming it's okay to violate the Constitution for "public safety" is, itself, Treason.
You HAVE to be kidding me. You do not think that AQ or taliban is a threat to America? You do not think that 9/11 occurred? And the fact that the Chinese, Iranian, North Koreans, and even Russians (quasi issue here) are spying on us with a full court press is not an issue? Seriously? If you think that they are not a threat, then you have an issue with your logic. Or should I be asking, what nation you are from?
And you claim that the constitution has been violated, yet, you provide ZERO proof of it. All you have is a bunch of accusations, with no proof.
BTW, I asked how YOU would safeguard this, and yet, you come up with NOTHING? Why not?
I am sorry, but what did NSA do that was illegal with listening in on Al Qaeda, Taliban, China, Iran, and North Korea?
I am curious. What exactly do you think that we were doing in Afghanistan for the last decade (besides having the neo-cons fuck things up)? I mean do you not think that we were at war there and that Al Qaeda and Taliban are NOT enemies of USA (let alone the west)?
And since when do you need a declaration of war to have somebody be an enemy? Technically, we did not have a war declared against USSR. Yet, Rosenbergs were executed for giving confidential information to them.
Get the neo-con cock out of your mouth.
Go google for this. Then pull up the links:
Ann Coulter did not object to the news about NSA phone snooping on principle, but does have a problem with it under this particular president.
Republican Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin asked: “How could the phone records of so many innocent Americans be relevant to an authorized investigation as required by the Act?” In a separate newspaper column, Sensenbrenner went further, claiming the administration was abusing the law.
that piece of trash sat on Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security (Chairman) when all of this went down. He was right in the MIDST of it all, and then claims that he knew nothing about it, while claiming O is behind this.
On Sunday, the Republican senator and libertarian firebrand from Kentucky declared that he planned to file a class action lawsuit against the Obama administration, claiming the NSA surveillance programs that intercept internet communications (for supposedly foreign targets) and sweep up the phone records of Americans are "unconstitutional."
That Piece of Trash sits on Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs (starting 2011). IOW, the senate version of what Sensenbrenner is on. He has almost certainly known for the last 2 years.
I could continue on and on, but what is the point of it? The fact is, that the outrage by the neo-cons, is just another made up garbage. However, this one has backing with far left, and Libertarians, all of whom have NO idea of what is really going on. I mean YOU have made a number of accusations, yet, you are showing no proof of it.
Agreed.
I have already dealt with 2 chinese spies and I was not up to much at all. Yes, we are the most spied upon nation. No doubt about it.
And the nations, and even those on this site, that are gripping about all this, remind me of the neo-cons attacking Clinton for screwing women, while they were hot and heavy with their own mistresses.
That's easy because it's all in secret, and everybody is on the same team. You think if someone goes beyond the 7 days they are allowed to listen to calls without a warrant that anyone is going to raise a stink? The secret warrants are always granted anyway, and none of those guys are going to say anything about going beyond the secret rules. Hell, even when cops get caught on camera beating up citizens all the other cops circle the wagon and defend them and act like it was all perfectly okay - they were just "protecting the public". No wonder Snowden decided he had to get out of the country before he said anything. You deviate from being a team player in that environment and you're toast.
First off, if anybody is listening in to random calls and does not have a warrant, I am opposed to that. That is truly an invasion of our privacy. However, I am not convinced one way or another that is the case. Right now, you have one fool, Nadler, who claimed that it was the case, then retracted it. BUT, we do not know what is the case. However, I will say again, that if anybody is listening in on random calls, I am opposed to that.
Secondly, how do you know that every warrant is granted? Do you have proof of that? If so, I would like to see that. And just because you say that is the case, does not make it so.
In the NSA game, there is NO scrutiny whatsoever. No citizen cell phones. No public court records. No accountability other than all the foxes pointing at all the other foxes going "No, no, we have rules and a system and we're all watching each other." Then a few hens go missing and SURPRISE! None of the foxes saw anything - must have been a terrorist that slipped through their oh-so-important net.
If there is no scrutiny, then we have an issue. The fact is, that a court and 2 sub-committees are supposed to be supervising all of this. So, are you claiming that they are not? Or are you trying to claim that we do not know if they are doing their job? If the later, than what exactly do you propose? Keep in mind that we do not want to tell those legitimate targets that we are looking in, that we are doing this. However, I agree that if this is out-of-hand, that it needs to be controlled. So, again, I will ask: What do you propose?
Thanks for providing the view of the political class, which views all this as perfectly okay, and can't understand why anyone would be upset. After all, you have secretly decided that secretly keeping all this data is okay because there is a secret court that makes secret decisions and secret warrants and the people really need to just trust it all to be perfectly fine.
Give me a fucking break about the 'political class'. I was simply a designer and developer. Nothing more. It was fun and very interesting. I have nothing to do with final implementations (I have no idea if it actually was). BUT, there is little doubt that you suffer from the same 'you are either with us or against us' neo-con attitude. The fact is, that I have NO issue with listening in, if there is a real reason for national security. After all, one of the biggest purposes of our nation, is national security. Likewise, the BS about metadata is just that: BS. OTOH, if they are really listening in, then we have a serious problem. BTW, I have posted elsewhere and here, that I do not object to NSA having this because they have NO ENFORCEMENT capabilities. They simply turn over evidence to other groups (CIA|FBI|DOD|?). Who you do NOT want to have this is any group with enforcement capability AND with political ties. NSA is fairly apolitical.
Oh, and had you paid attention back in 2004, 2005, 2006, this was all in the press. It was ALL OVER THE NEWS. IOW, you are simply re-hashing what was talked about 7-10 years ago.