Wikipediareview seems rather limp and lame compared to (say) Wikien-l. Good to see an alternative forum for criticism, but very little of the criticism seems to be what I might call mature and adult.
Then again, I've only had a quick look over the forum.
Why don't we have something as simple and effective as Slashdot's modding? We could pick out the best editors easily enough then.
Yeah, I know. The servers would melt down.
I understand and feel the pain of those who have criticised the design and architecture of this complex. Sure, it looks like some demented giant has played a joke on we creatures of logic and good taste, but to my mind, it makes perfect sense.
The building echoes the excitement, the lateral thinking, the bold strides into the unknown that characterise computing in the past, today and into the future. It is a challenge to try to come to grips with how the computing world has evolved and who can say where it is going next?
The odd angles and shapes are deliberately unsettling. The viewer, the visitor, the worker; all must set aside their conventional, predictable, boring views, and try to look at things in a new way. It is almost as if the buildings are the shape of the thoughts of the pioneers of computing, those who could think outside the square grey boxes of the past and lead us into exciting new areas.
Please don't criticise the building because it isn't the same as a million others. It's weird, different, stimulating and fun. Just like the wild ride that computing has given us over the past years and seems certain to keep on doing well into the future.
Instead, rejoice in the exuberance and try to open up your own thinking along unknown, unpredictable ways. Who knows where you might end up?
For statistical analysis, no assumptions can be made. First to assume that Linux users only access the internet via Linux is a bit off. I'm at work and have to use what I am provided. MS W2K. Next, to say that any one group of people are drawn to a certain search engine just because they happen to use a certain OS is another leap.
I'm sorry? I made neither of those two assumptions. In fact, I take the opportunity to rule them out explicitly. I see Google as being sufficiently widely used nowadays to reflect NO particular group of users.
Nor do I somehow think that Google can work out what you use at home if you aren't using that particular computer. If you use a W2K box, it sees you as a W2K user. Which, of course, you are. If you use a Linux box, it sees you as a Linux user.
You mentioned that Linux newsgroups have remained constant. That may be so but the three forums that I read and the two IRC areas I frequent have seen nothing but an increase in the last year. One forum went from less then 500 to close to 2000 in about 9 months time.
Which newsgroups? These figures can be checked.
With DistroWatch showing more then 500 unique active distros, could it be that the new people are using non-newsgroup avenues to find information? I'll repeat, I don't know since no has any real numbers on exactly what is going on.
So you'd prefer to go with a gut feeling not based on any figures, eh? Google and Usenet are sufficiently widely used as to be good indicators of the general Internet-using community. My own gut feeling is that Linux users are more computer and Internet-savvy than most users and therefore the Google figures are a little more Linux positive than the reality.
I think everyone on both sides of this argument agree its nearly impossible to "count" how many Linux/BSD are out there given you can just d/l the source.
You think wrong.
I'm not counting sales or downloads, even assuming I had access to these figures. I'm counting usage. Or rather Google Zeitgeist is, as I indicated. I'm assuming that users of Linux access the Internet in general and Google in particular just as much, if not more so, than users of other operating systems. Linux has consistently remained at 1% while versions of Windows have waxed and waned.
Traffic on Linux newsgroups has also remained constant over the past three years after showing a strong initial rise.
Linux usage is increasing in only one area, and that is the server market, where people are ditching their expensive Unix workstations and opting for Linux running on cheap PCs. Hence the problems faced by Sun, SCO and IBM.
The bottom line is that Linux isn't making great inroads into the Windows market. But if you have any figures that contradict this, figures that aren't based on wishing and hoping, then feel free to share.
Myself, and the company I work for. And there is evidence of a move... maybe not so much in the US but definately in Canada... particularly in certain gov't agencies.
Well, fair enough. Hope it all works out for you. It's just that I get rather sick of seeing people mindlessly bashing Microsoft without any reference to the facts.
Heaven knows Microsoft deserves a bit of stick from time to time, but the tenor of most complaints is whining sour grapes stuff.
I dont understand the MS bashing around here. XP runs fine on my 200MHz Celeron.
Bashing Microsoft is like climbing Everest because it's there. So far as I can see that's the only reason most of them do it, because very few of the MS-bashers' comments make much sense.
I loaded a beta of Windows Server 2003 on a laptop that was waaaaay below the recommended minimum, piled software on top of it and it ran just fine.
I doubt Microsoft is going to cut its own throat by specifying a minimum that is way above the norm. What's all this extra computing power supposed to be used for, anyway? So far as I can see it hasn't been applications or operating systems that have been pushing the limits of computers, not for about a decade.
What gets people to upgrade are fancy new games or fancy new pr0n. Let's face it, most of the time the OS and applications are busy doing nothing but hang around waiting for you to do something like move the mouse or press a key, and unless Longhorn has an active desktop picture where every blade of grass ripples in random breezes, I can't see much for all this supposed minimum computing power to do.
One of the major reasons we are moving towards a transition to linux from windows is...
You then give three "reasons" not one.
But where did this "moving towards Linux" come from? I can't see any growth in Linux desktop usage over the past three years after a period of rapid growth. For as long as Google Zeitgeist has been keeping records, Linux has remained rock-solid on 1%. Traffic on the Linux newsgroups remains constant. There's no evidence of any move to Linux from Windows. Not recently.
There is a move to Linux in one area. In the server market, Unix users are shifting to Linux running on PCs. Sun and SCO and IBM are hurting while Bill Gates laughs all the way to the bank.
Weta also did the model work. I was over in Wellington some months ago and the model for Barad-dur was on display in the foyer of the national museum. About twenty feet high and superbly detailed. Awesome.
They also built the models for the ships used in Master and Commander, but the computer graphics were handled elsewhere.
After seeing these films, I'm going to be very keen indeed to see what these Kiwis can come up with next!
I'm kind of a showoff typist, I must confess, and labelless keys would just make my act more dramatic with the chicks.
Just quietly, but there are buttons you can press that will help you out even more with "the chicks". Unless you can touch-type with your tongue, of course.
If they don't go with the flow, they will get squissed like a bug. like it or not.
This is just plain stupid. Microsoft makes its money by giving people what they want. If Linux is an example of a superior paradigm, then why did it stop growing about three years back?
Look at Google Zeitgeist. Look at the level of Usenet postings on Linux-specific groups.
This woman's "analysis" took place before and during the big rise in interest in Linux, but she failed to notice that the wave hasn't grown.
Except in the server market, where Linux running on cheap PCs is knocking off Unix running on expensive workstations. She got that half right.
And there's always Java, which is not only free, but also is a world class language for everything from internet servers to complex GUIs, with some great tools and even better literature. That's my language of choice for newbies...takes a bit more coaxing to get them to open their heads to it, but once they do...there's no shutting them again.
You know, that's exactly my thought. VBScript is all very well, but why would you want to cripple your efforts by writing stuff that doesn't run as widely as Java?
Kids nowadays would get into programming cool webpages rather than writing Hello World! There's a tonne of examples around. Heck, just view source, copy and paste.
I'm a VB programmer and I love it, but a lot of that is because I cut my programming teeth on BASIC and didn't develop a liking for COBOL or FORTRAN or any of the other stuff around.
Well I'm glad BASIC exists because I probably would not have started programming without it. Can you imagine trying to learn C or something like that when you are 13 (circa 1984) and have no other programmer friends and no internet or BBS to get sample code from.
Happy Birthday BASIC but where is the pathway to any flavour of the language now?
Once upon a time BASIC came as a free part of the computer box. A lot of boxes, you turned them on and there was BASIC. To do anything at all, you had to learn BASIC, and so a lot of people did.
But nowadays, all you do is point and click. Visual Basic isn't free. Maybe you can get into VBA through Word, but I can't see too many 13YOs going that route.
I'd have to say that eventually BASIC will wither and die through lack of new blood. Sure it will take a while until all those programmers who learnt their stuff in the 80s die out, but die out they will.
Sun is also competing with intel and it's hurting them just like it hurt Apple. Businesses realize that they can buy 5 PC's for the price of one Sun, so even the awesome support sun offers pales when compared to the bottom line (provided you're saavy enough to swap a DIMM).
And what are people running on those PC boxes? Hmmm?
From where I sit it looks like Linux users are hurting Sun far more than Microsoft.
Slashdot Mirror
Wikipediareview seems rather limp and lame compared to (say) Wikien-l. Good to see an alternative forum for criticism, but very little of the criticism seems to be what I might call mature and adult. Then again, I've only had a quick look over the forum.
Why don't we have something as simple and effective as Slashdot's modding? We could pick out the best editors easily enough then. Yeah, I know. The servers would melt down.
If this is so, then why is OpenOffice even more mediocre?
Yeah. I don't think you can actually install it without giving a password.
Yeah! And on the other side of the same coin are the one-eyed Linux zealots.
--
Pete, wishing both types would cancel each other out
The building echoes the excitement, the lateral thinking, the bold strides into the unknown that characterise computing in the past, today and into the future. It is a challenge to try to come to grips with how the computing world has evolved and who can say where it is going next?
The odd angles and shapes are deliberately unsettling. The viewer, the visitor, the worker; all must set aside their conventional, predictable, boring views, and try to look at things in a new way. It is almost as if the buildings are the shape of the thoughts of the pioneers of computing, those who could think outside the square grey boxes of the past and lead us into exciting new areas.
Please don't criticise the building because it isn't the same as a million others. It's weird, different, stimulating and fun. Just like the wild ride that computing has given us over the past years and seems certain to keep on doing well into the future.
Instead, rejoice in the exuberance and try to open up your own thinking along unknown, unpredictable ways. Who knows where you might end up?
I'm sorry? I made neither of those two assumptions. In fact, I take the opportunity to rule them out explicitly. I see Google as being sufficiently widely used nowadays to reflect NO particular group of users.
Nor do I somehow think that Google can work out what you use at home if you aren't using that particular computer. If you use a W2K box, it sees you as a W2K user. Which, of course, you are. If you use a Linux box, it sees you as a Linux user.
Which newsgroups? These figures can be checked.
So you'd prefer to go with a gut feeling not based on any figures, eh? Google and Usenet are sufficiently widely used as to be good indicators of the general Internet-using community. My own gut feeling is that Linux users are more computer and Internet-savvy than most users and therefore the Google figures are a little more Linux positive than the reality.
You think wrong.
I'm not counting sales or downloads, even assuming I had access to these figures. I'm counting usage. Or rather Google Zeitgeist is, as I indicated. I'm assuming that users of Linux access the Internet in general and Google in particular just as much, if not more so, than users of other operating systems. Linux has consistently remained at 1% while versions of Windows have waxed and waned.
Traffic on Linux newsgroups has also remained constant over the past three years after showing a strong initial rise.
Linux usage is increasing in only one area, and that is the server market, where people are ditching their expensive Unix workstations and opting for Linux running on cheap PCs. Hence the problems faced by Sun, SCO and IBM.
The bottom line is that Linux isn't making great inroads into the Windows market. But if you have any figures that contradict this, figures that aren't based on wishing and hoping, then feel free to share.
Well, fair enough. Hope it all works out for you. It's just that I get rather sick of seeing people mindlessly bashing Microsoft without any reference to the facts.
Heaven knows Microsoft deserves a bit of stick from time to time, but the tenor of most complaints is whining sour grapes stuff.
Bashing Microsoft is like climbing Everest because it's there. So far as I can see that's the only reason most of them do it, because very few of the MS-bashers' comments make much sense.
I loaded a beta of Windows Server 2003 on a laptop that was waaaaay below the recommended minimum, piled software on top of it and it ran just fine.
I doubt Microsoft is going to cut its own throat by specifying a minimum that is way above the norm. What's all this extra computing power supposed to be used for, anyway? So far as I can see it hasn't been applications or operating systems that have been pushing the limits of computers, not for about a decade.
What gets people to upgrade are fancy new games or fancy new pr0n. Let's face it, most of the time the OS and applications are busy doing nothing but hang around waiting for you to do something like move the mouse or press a key, and unless Longhorn has an active desktop picture where every blade of grass ripples in random breezes, I can't see much for all this supposed minimum computing power to do.
The whole thing sounds like a right furphy to me.
You then give three "reasons" not one.
But where did this "moving towards Linux" come from? I can't see any growth in Linux desktop usage over the past three years after a period of rapid growth. For as long as Google Zeitgeist has been keeping records, Linux has remained rock-solid on 1%. Traffic on the Linux newsgroups remains constant. There's no evidence of any move to Linux from Windows. Not recently.
There is a move to Linux in one area. In the server market, Unix users are shifting to Linux running on PCs. Sun and SCO and IBM are hurting while Bill Gates laughs all the way to the bank.
They also built the models for the ships used in Master and Commander, but the computer graphics were handled elsewhere.
After seeing these films, I'm going to be very keen indeed to see what these Kiwis can come up with next!
The key word is Nerds.
--
Pete, MCP MSNERD
Heh. Like r and e you mean?
Just quietly, but there are buttons you can press that will help you out even more with "the chicks". Unless you can touch-type with your tongue, of course.
I dn't think yr spelng proublem can b fxed buy a new keybord.
Apple sells them.
--
Pete, ever helpful
You work for Sun, yeah?
You know, that's exactly my thought. VBScript is all very well, but why would you want to cripple your efforts by writing stuff that doesn't run as widely as Java?
Kids nowadays would get into programming cool webpages rather than writing Hello World! There's a tonne of examples around. Heck, just view source, copy and paste.
I'm a VB programmer and I love it, but a lot of that is because I cut my programming teeth on BASIC and didn't develop a liking for COBOL or FORTRAN or any of the other stuff around.
But nowadays, it'd be Java all the way.
I should make such mistakes and be as rich as Bill Gates!
-- Pete, working out where he didn't go wrong
Happy Birthday BASIC but where is the pathway to any flavour of the language now?
Once upon a time BASIC came as a free part of the computer box. A lot of boxes, you turned them on and there was BASIC. To do anything at all, you had to learn BASIC, and so a lot of people did.
But nowadays, all you do is point and click. Visual Basic isn't free. Maybe you can get into VBA through Word, but I can't see too many 13YOs going that route.
I'd have to say that eventually BASIC will wither and die through lack of new blood. Sure it will take a while until all those programmers who learnt their stuff in the 80s die out, but die out they will.
Yeah. That'd be a good business model. Sell expensive Sparcs running a freebie OS to compete with cheap PCs running a freebie OS.
In this case Linux was the problem, not the solution.
And what are people running on those PC boxes? Hmmm?
From where I sit it looks like Linux users are hurting Sun far more than Microsoft.
Is Air Lauda still in business?