In the US, every year we manage to kill almost 50,000 people in automobile accidents. That is 10 9/11 disasters each and every year. I say turn the homeland security bunch loose on speeders, drunk drivers, road rage maniacs, tailgaiters, and the lot and to hell with 'em all.
If the device would make 1/3 of the jerks on the road drive more responsibly, I'm all for giving up some 'privacy'.
I have a friend who has a better idea for changing people's driving behaviour. Pull the seatbelts, put regular bumpers back on cars, remove the air bags and put a huge pointy metal spick right in the middle of the steering wheel! Maybe they's stay 3 seconds back!
The longer we have oil available, the longer this discussion will go on. Therefore, the faster we use up ALL the oil, the sooner we'll be forced to find new ways to get around and power our toys and create our plastics. For this reason, SUV's especially those in the Hummer class are our route to energy independence.
The safety thing - we have too many people in the world. We have waaaayyy too many stupid people. If we give (not sell, GIVE) the dumbest of the dumb a huge, clunky, bad handling SUV along with a cell phone and a nice cup-holder then increase the legal speed limit we may be able to drop our population a bit in the bargain.
SUVs solve all the problems.
Dogu
Re:Piano analogy
on
Ageism in IT?
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I know some piano players. The only way for them to stay proficient is to play all the time. If they learn a piece, put it away for a few months and go back to the piece, they pretty much have to start over.
Any task or skill takes continued practice to maintain any level of proficiency. Exposure to new versions and variants keeps the skills fresh.
I think older coders (at least if they have anything at all going for them) have knowledge about human interactions and business processes that younger coders just haven't been exposed to. While writing code is a technical exercise, really understanding WHY you need to develop an app is more closely associated with gained knowledge.
Does this mean that older programmers have an advantage in the real world? Probably not. Old = more experience = more pay. In a world where even Indian programmers are being outsourced to the newest low cost provider, us old f***s don't stand much chance...
I get in my car. I put the key in a slot that looks like the slot in most other cars. I turn the key. Magic happens. I don't really care that in newer cars the entire process is controlled by a bunch of microchips or that in an older car it's all wires and gears. Turn the key. Magic happens.
Yes, I'm a lazy linux newbie spoiled by my familiarity with the way MS products work. Guess what? Most of the computer world (ie people who spend money on hardware, software, and support) are in the same boat. Developers have issues with the way OS's work. End users J U S T---W A N T---M A G I C.
Given that I'm pretty sure Mandrake 9.1 still won't recognize my poor wireless network, I think it may be worth a look see. One of these days, I'll actually be able to dump Windows for Linux and I can't wait!
I guess I'm just more in touch with my feminine side; I do get emotional about code. If I find some new and clever way to implement an idea, it's a thrill, a _creative_ thrill. If an end user tells me my app saved him time/effort/made her-his life easier, I'm one happy camper. I love _creating_ useful tools for people.
The really good hackers/programmer/engineers/pick your term are artists. I'm not there and just think of myself as a tool maker (maybe as another poster suggested, a carpenter).
If you've never experienced the joy, my condolences.
Great point. There was some photo taken either during WWII or just after that was used in court to attempt to prove that one of the gents in the image was in cahoots with one of the other gents. Seems the fact that he was looking at the second person implied some type of relationship.
Turned out, the image had been cropped and the guy was actually looking at a bunch of folks not in the cropped image.
Every photo tells a story, but that story can be whatever the photographer and dark room person want it to be without resorting to digital tricks.
This does not excuse the photographer in this case, but is a warning to everyone not to believe what you see... (heck the Michael Moore movie is full of this type of well done misdirection and implication).
Several posters have discussed the problem when a system built to spec doesn't meet the user's needs and how that is somehow the user's fault.
The whole process of setting specs and building an app has been giving me heartburn for a while and I think I finally found an analogy that works to put the problem in perspective.
I build custom golf clubs.
I'm going to build a set for you based on your specs. I need the following information with your signature approving initiation of the build.
List of clubs required.
For each club:
Head style
Head weight
Center of gravity
Weighting preference
Surface area
Loft
Lie
Bounce
Offset
Groove style
Face pattern
Parallel or taper shaft
Ferrule or not
Club length
Swingweight or moment of inertia
Preferred method to adjust sw or moi if required
Shaft vendor
Shaft material
Bend point
DFSI
Label alignment preference
I also need you to define grip:
Vendor
Material
Style
Weight
Over/undersize amount
I'll give you a quote and build the clubs.
Now, once you've gotten your shiny new clubs, it's not going to be a surprise if you tell me they're not what you want. Why? Probably because you don't understand the relationship between all of the specs and the performace of the final club. More importantly what you REALLY wanted was to loose 6 strokes on your game and unless I go on the golf course with you and watch you hit real balls on real grass you'll get the wrong set of clubs, but hey - I built 'em to your spec so stop whining and learn to play golf. Now here's a great idea. If you want to improve your game, get an instructor or at least read Golf for Idiots.
Change the nouns to computer related stuff and it's the same problem. Go. Live with the end user for a while. See what's keeping them at work for more than their alloted 8 hours and design something that get's them home on time. Be a hero.
Great thread.
Dogu
/
I'm not starting a flame war. Some users need to be shot. The following is personal and the way I do business. Take, leave it, ignore it, it's just my opinion
/
I'm a developer. I'm also an end user of systems I didn't develop. I don't work for IT but the engineering group in a medical manufacturing plant. I used to be a med tech and am a chemist by training. I've been (and am still) the victim of bad design. I pledge to my users I'll give them what they want so they can actually do work.
The author is bang on. It's not about specs, it's not about stupid users. It's about a gap in language and understanding. It's not about techies vs the unwashed. It's about finance people using one word to describe something they do that sounds like a regular old word to the designer but has a completly different meaning to the finance person. These kinds of misunderstandings lead me down a lot of dead ends until I figured out I really REALLY had to listen and UNDERSTAND what people were saying. Sit with them for a day. Watch what they DO for a living. Find the pain in their work life and ask them how they might want the problem fixed.
It's about including the right set of people on the design team. It's about being willing to listen to, no ask for, complaints about the design. If they're not complaining, they don't care and have given up on the app and you can bet it is a piece of garbage.
If an app isn't used, or is used badly, it's the designers fault, not the end user.
You want to see crappy design? Just look at what some cash register systems, with all the cool gui's and flashy colors, make the user go through to enter an order. BAD DESIGN not stupid users.
The poster suggesting the game model is also dead on track. You have to learn to see the world, on the tube, from the user's standpoint. It's not a database table or view, it's a form or a document, or some other construct that makes sense to the user. The user's not stupid, YOU don't understand and need to learn what the user's world is all about.
The artilce is NOT about Word. It's about financial systems, inventory systems, newpaper editing systems (which usually are more closely aligned to CAD/CAM systems than word processors), it's about CAD systems. Anybody actually try and use Oracle business systems? It sucks and you need some techie in a back room to find the right tool for the thing you're trying to do. Heck, with Oracle Discoverer, you can generate reports that are wrong if you just happen to pick a field with the right name from the wrong table (even though the table sounds right). Does that make any sense? Should you have to have a degree in SQL to figure out a business problem?
Listen to your users, give them what they want, make sure it does what they need, and you will be a god in their eyes. If you keep blaming the stupid user for being stupid, well, IT can be outsourced...
Funny, the article is (apparently) about the collection and use of personal information and the threat posed by these actions. The first thing I have to do to read the article is, ummmmm, register with the NY Times. How rich.
Guess I'll schlep down to the market and buy the hard copy version with cash.
If you want to save your fingers, there's a freeware app called ssss available from: http://ading.hypermart.net/index.html.
Move your mouse to a corner of the screen and the screen saver kicks in. Add to this a timer for those times you forget to lug the heavy old pointer to the corner and you can lock up the system without a ton of work. Works on Windows systems, you Unix/Linux/mac users gotta figure out something else.
Of course, isn't is possible to break into most any Windows system without a ton of work? Some boot from cd linux system that gives the user full control of the pc?
Isn't security one of those multi-level things that takes a lot of work to really set up and keep safe? And can't all the security in the world be bypassed when a white hat admin with all the keys goes to the dark side?
My system is configured to lock itself after 5 minutes of inactivity. The main environment I work with (Lotus Notes) also locks after 5 minutes. If I turn and talk to someone, I need to enter 2 passwords to start working again. The important apps within Notes require dual id/password entry if I need to sign anything of legal or regulatory importance and can detect and respond to guessing. I spend a good deal of my day typing in 9 character passwords.
I already wear an ID badge so adding in the ZIA device seems to add convenience to my world. Could someone gain the data being transmitted? Sure. Good thing for me I work in an environment where people can't figur out email or network directory structues ('but it's on the G: drive, you know where that is, right???')
What I really want is the Star Trek chest badge, now that'd be cool.
Slashdot Mirror
In the US, every year we manage to kill almost 50,000 people in automobile accidents. That is 10 9/11 disasters each and every year. I say turn the homeland security bunch loose on speeders, drunk drivers, road rage maniacs, tailgaiters, and the lot and to hell with 'em all.
If the device would make 1/3 of the jerks on the road drive more responsibly, I'm all for giving up some 'privacy'.
I have a friend who has a better idea for changing people's driving behaviour. Pull the seatbelts, put regular bumpers back on cars, remove the air bags and put a huge pointy metal spick right in the middle of the steering wheel! Maybe they's stay 3 seconds back!
Dogu
The longer we have oil available, the longer this discussion will go on. Therefore, the faster we use up ALL the oil, the sooner we'll be forced to find new ways to get around and power our toys and create our plastics. For this reason, SUV's especially those in the Hummer class are our route to energy independence.
The safety thing - we have too many people in the world. We have waaaayyy too many stupid people. If we give (not sell, GIVE) the dumbest of the dumb a huge, clunky, bad handling SUV along with a cell phone and a nice cup-holder then increase the legal speed limit we may be able to drop our population a bit in the bargain.
SUVs solve all the problems.
Dogu
I know some piano players. The only way for them to stay proficient is to play all the time. If they learn a piece, put it away for a few months and go back to the piece, they pretty much have to start over.
Any task or skill takes continued practice to maintain any level of proficiency. Exposure to new versions and variants keeps the skills fresh.
I think older coders (at least if they have anything at all going for them) have knowledge about human interactions and business processes that younger coders just haven't been exposed to. While writing code is a technical exercise, really understanding WHY you need to develop an app is more closely associated with gained knowledge.
Does this mean that older programmers have an advantage in the real world? Probably not. Old = more experience = more pay. In a world where even Indian programmers are being outsourced to the newest low cost provider, us old f***s don't stand much chance...
Dogu
From page 2 of the article:
âoeFaliures are simply due to human error, which is avoidable,â said Spear.
Say WHAT? If humans are involved, somewhere, somehow, something is gonna get busted. I want some of what this guy is smokin'.
Dogu
I get in my car.
I put the key in a slot that looks like the slot in most other cars.
I turn the key.
Magic happens.
I don't really care that in newer cars the entire process is controlled by a bunch of microchips or that in an older car it's all wires and gears.
Turn the key.
Magic happens.
Yes, I'm a lazy linux newbie spoiled by my familiarity with the way MS products work.
Guess what? Most of the computer world (ie people who spend money on hardware, software, and support) are in the same boat. Developers have issues with the way OS's work. End users J U S T---W A N T---M A G I C.
Given that I'm pretty sure Mandrake 9.1 still won't recognize my poor wireless network, I think it may be worth a look see. One of these days, I'll actually be able to dump Windows for Linux and I can't wait!
Dogu
I guess I'm just more in touch with my feminine side; I do get emotional about code. If I find some new and clever way to implement an idea, it's a thrill, a _creative_ thrill. If an end user tells me my app saved him time/effort/made her-his life easier, I'm one happy camper. I love _creating_ useful tools for people.
The really good hackers/programmer/engineers/pick your term are artists. I'm not there and just think of myself as a tool maker (maybe as another poster suggested, a carpenter).
If you've never experienced the joy, my condolences.
Dogu.
Great point. There was some photo taken either during WWII or just after that was used in court to attempt to prove that one of the gents in the image was in cahoots with one of the other gents. Seems the fact that he was looking at the second person implied some type of relationship.
Turned out, the image had been cropped and the guy was actually looking at a bunch of folks not in the cropped image.
Every photo tells a story, but that story can be whatever the photographer and dark room person want it to be without resorting to digital tricks.
This does not excuse the photographer in this case, but is a warning to everyone not to believe what you see... (heck the Michael Moore movie is full of this type of well done misdirection and implication).
dogu
Several posters have discussed the problem when a system built to spec doesn't meet the user's needs and how that is somehow the user's fault. The whole process of setting specs and building an app has been giving me heartburn for a while and I think I finally found an analogy that works to put the problem in perspective. I build custom golf clubs. I'm going to build a set for you based on your specs. I need the following information with your signature approving initiation of the build. List of clubs required. For each club: Head style Head weight Center of gravity Weighting preference Surface area Loft Lie Bounce Offset Groove style Face pattern Parallel or taper shaft Ferrule or not Club length Swingweight or moment of inertia Preferred method to adjust sw or moi if required Shaft vendor Shaft material Bend point DFSI Label alignment preference I also need you to define grip: Vendor Material Style Weight Over/undersize amount I'll give you a quote and build the clubs. Now, once you've gotten your shiny new clubs, it's not going to be a surprise if you tell me they're not what you want. Why? Probably because you don't understand the relationship between all of the specs and the performace of the final club. More importantly what you REALLY wanted was to loose 6 strokes on your game and unless I go on the golf course with you and watch you hit real balls on real grass you'll get the wrong set of clubs, but hey - I built 'em to your spec so stop whining and learn to play golf. Now here's a great idea. If you want to improve your game, get an instructor or at least read Golf for Idiots. Change the nouns to computer related stuff and it's the same problem. Go. Live with the end user for a while. See what's keeping them at work for more than their alloted 8 hours and design something that get's them home on time. Be a hero. Great thread. Dogu
/ I'm not starting a flame war. Some users need to be shot. The following is personal and the way I do business. Take, leave it, ignore it, it's just my opinion / I'm a developer. I'm also an end user of systems I didn't develop. I don't work for IT but the engineering group in a medical manufacturing plant. I used to be a med tech and am a chemist by training. I've been (and am still) the victim of bad design. I pledge to my users I'll give them what they want so they can actually do work. The author is bang on. It's not about specs, it's not about stupid users. It's about a gap in language and understanding. It's not about techies vs the unwashed. It's about finance people using one word to describe something they do that sounds like a regular old word to the designer but has a completly different meaning to the finance person. These kinds of misunderstandings lead me down a lot of dead ends until I figured out I really REALLY had to listen and UNDERSTAND what people were saying. Sit with them for a day. Watch what they DO for a living. Find the pain in their work life and ask them how they might want the problem fixed. It's about including the right set of people on the design team. It's about being willing to listen to, no ask for, complaints about the design. If they're not complaining, they don't care and have given up on the app and you can bet it is a piece of garbage. If an app isn't used, or is used badly, it's the designers fault, not the end user. You want to see crappy design? Just look at what some cash register systems, with all the cool gui's and flashy colors, make the user go through to enter an order. BAD DESIGN not stupid users. The poster suggesting the game model is also dead on track. You have to learn to see the world, on the tube, from the user's standpoint. It's not a database table or view, it's a form or a document, or some other construct that makes sense to the user. The user's not stupid, YOU don't understand and need to learn what the user's world is all about. The artilce is NOT about Word. It's about financial systems, inventory systems, newpaper editing systems (which usually are more closely aligned to CAD/CAM systems than word processors), it's about CAD systems. Anybody actually try and use Oracle business systems? It sucks and you need some techie in a back room to find the right tool for the thing you're trying to do. Heck, with Oracle Discoverer, you can generate reports that are wrong if you just happen to pick a field with the right name from the wrong table (even though the table sounds right). Does that make any sense? Should you have to have a degree in SQL to figure out a business problem? Listen to your users, give them what they want, make sure it does what they need, and you will be a god in their eyes. If you keep blaming the stupid user for being stupid, well, IT can be outsourced...
Funny, the article is (apparently) about the collection and use of personal information and the threat posed by these actions. The first thing I have to do to read the article is, ummmmm, register with the NY Times. How rich.
Guess I'll schlep down to the market and buy the hard copy version with cash.
Have a happy holiday.
If you want to save your fingers, there's a freeware app called ssss available from: http://ading.hypermart.net/index.html.
Move your mouse to a corner of the screen and the screen saver kicks in. Add to this a timer for those times you forget to lug the heavy old pointer to the corner and you can lock up the system without a ton of work. Works on Windows systems, you Unix/Linux/mac users gotta figure out something else.
Of course, isn't is possible to break into most any Windows system without a ton of work? Some boot from cd linux system that gives the user full control of the pc?
Isn't security one of those multi-level things that takes a lot of work to really set up and keep safe? And can't all the security in the world be bypassed when a white hat admin with all the keys goes to the dark side?
My system is configured to lock itself after 5 minutes of inactivity. The main environment I work with (Lotus Notes) also locks after 5 minutes. If I turn and talk to someone, I need to enter 2 passwords to start working again. The important apps within Notes require dual id/password entry if I need to sign anything of legal or regulatory importance and can detect and respond to guessing. I spend a good deal of my day typing in 9 character passwords.
I already wear an ID badge so adding in the ZIA device seems to add convenience to my world. Could someone gain the data being transmitted? Sure. Good thing for me I work in an environment where people can't figur out email or network directory structues ('but it's on the G: drive, you know where that is, right???')
What I really want is the Star Trek chest badge, now that'd be cool.
Good thread.
Dogu