when he said "milk the Mac for all it's worth and get busy on the Next Big Thing" he was talking about the original MacOS. The Next Big Thing in this case would be MacOS X. So that really has nothing to do with anything at this point. He milked it for all it was worth with OS8 and OS9. Then he moved on to the next big thing (in his eyes).
Actually I think he is right. So what if they have your credit card number. In fact if they do charge you for things you didn't order so much the better. Charge-back again. The charge back WILL hurt them and enough of them would definitely hurt their bottom line and quite possible cause them to lose their merchant account.
Unless they have a signed receipt the credit card company will side with you every time.
I just had a thought. What I really want to do is generate some sort of office documents on the web. That way I can make word processing documents, spreadsheets, charts, graphs etc that my clients can download. Now I would love to just generate Open Office XML files and have them use those. The problem with that is that none of my clients use Open Office and they are not going to for the foreseeable future.
Here however is my super cool idea that I just came up with:
An open office server. If open office can export to MS Office Formats what's to stop me from doing the following (other than time).
1) create my templates in open office XML format 2) extract the parts of open office that import from the OO XML format to it's internal format, and export to MS Office format. 3) Create a PHP extension (or maybe apache module) to expose this functionality to my web apps. 4) Insert dynamic database driven content into my OO XML templates, convert them to MS Office format and stream them out to a client.
Maybe not the product of an ideal world but given the fact that MS Office is both closed an ubiquitous this seems to be a great way to leverage the capabilities open office in handling XML and MS Office import/export.
GNUStep - usually runs on linux usually on intel hardware
Cocoa - always runs on Apple (PPC) hardware.
It would be cool to have an emulation layer that would run all of the cool apple apps but that wouldn't make any sense for porting Chimera. It would make much more sense and be A LOT easier to just try to get it compiling under the GNU step libraries.
Last time I was in ultimate electronics checking out the new big screen HDTVs I noticed many of them were "firewire ready". When I asked the salesman what on earth this was for he said that eventually all communication with the TV (audio/vidio input/output) would be done over firewire.
Does anyone know anything about this? At least I think it refutes fairly well this guys assertion that no one is going to adopt it. If it is becoming a standard on even TVs I hardly think it's going away.
Re:One person's experience with PHP ...
on
PHP5 Coming Soon
·
· Score: 1
I'm just curious. What kind of unusual stuff are you doing?
"PHP's language leaves much to be desired in team programming and code readability." - Could you please explain this in enough detail for it to mean something to someone with no experience with zope or python.
"PHP lacks object persistence" - Yes this sucks.
"multiple inheritance" - Does zope do multiple inheritance like C++ or like Java (which doesn't really have multiple inheritance of couse but sort of does)
"full-featured transaction machinery" - Could you please explain what this means in terms of what sort of problems it would solve for me.
"built-in security model" - I have built one into the framework that I wrote for php. Why would I want the language to force it on me? Or is it a function of the zope frameworks?
"interactive command-line interface" - Why would I want this.
"too tied to web-scripting only" - True. But it is something that they are focusing on more now. (yes vaporware vaporware blah blah). But it does fine for me now since I don't really need to do desktop gui stuff and writing command line stuff in php is actually quite easy.
"And becuase it doesn't have a security model that binds operations to roles/permissions, it can't easily put gateway methods with bound roles (like Zope's proxy roles) between web code and SQL code, leading to increased chance of SQL injection vulnerabilities." - Are these not things that can be handled at the framework level. I add to my framwork as I need to and these problems all have reasonable solutions that can be implemented in php.
"On the other hand, Zope has object perisistence" - Yes this does suck.
"transactional RDBMS integration " - Uh and php doesn't have this? What exactly does zope do for you here that php doesn't? Maybe I don't understand what you mean here.
"connection abstraction" - PEAR provides a very nice database connection abstraction. (pear.php.net)
"templated" - Are you taking about separating user interface (html) code from your programming logic? Please go to smarty.php.net. I stopped mixing code and html after my first real project.
"componentized SQL methods" - Could you please explain this.
"security framework" - Once again is this part of the framework or the language?
"Python, which is a much better language" - This I know nothing about (on the python end that is)
"And if you need to do any sort of content-management, Zope has a mature component-oriented framwork in the CMF" - And php has nothing to help you out with content management??? It seems like a new content mangemnet system show up on freshmeat every other day.
"with a killer-app implementation in Plone" - Because nothing like this exists in PHP??? There are tons of apps writting in php that could be cnsidered killer-app quality if this was the standard of measurement.
"It also has XML-RPC, WebDAV, Caching managers, and all sorts of other goodies you won't find out of the box in PHP." - You are right on some of these but not other. But this doesn't mean that php doesn't have anything out of the box that zope lacks.
"PHP is fast, and it is easy, but it is by no means scalable" - Do you have something to back that up?
"utilize a templating technology that doesn't promote mixing logic and presentation " - Anyone with any brains has already done this. There are tons of templating options for php.
I am not trying to argue here as my knowledge of zope is nill. Many of your complaints though are simply not true. Others have not been a problem for me. I have been using php for 2 or 3 years now and I regret to say that it has prevented me from looking at other solutions (I have mostly been eyeing J2EE). It has always been fairly easy to add the functionality that I need to my php framework. I wonder though what I am missing. Am I reinventing the wheel by writing things that would already be taken care of with zope or J2EE? what methodalogies could help me code faster that I simply don't know about because they are not part of the php way of doing things.
I agree PHP started out as a cheap hack and it does seem like sort of a kludge at times but for me it has always been very practical and reliable. It has a large and helpful community. It is easy to admin and manage. There is TONS of free code out there to handle anything you want to do. There are TONS of great apps http://freshmeat.net/browse/160/?topic_id=160 and development is quick and easy even on "large" projects.
I am interested however in knowing what zope could really do for me to make it worth giving up php.
Thanks.
Re:One person's experience with PHP ...
on
PHP5 Coming Soon
·
· Score: 1
Were you by chance connecting to MS SQL for this application. The only time I have ever had problems with PHP was when I was trying to connect ot MS SQL in which case I had problems exactly like the ones you are describing. I switched to postgres and never had another problem.
Slashdot Mirror
uh... Microsoft can't "tail" their http logs
when he said "milk the Mac for all it's worth and get busy on the Next Big Thing" he was talking about the original MacOS. The Next Big Thing in this case would be MacOS X. So that really has nothing to do with anything at this point. He milked it for all it was worth with OS8 and OS9. Then he moved on to the next big thing (in his eyes).
I'm not sure how ever at what point it would become credit card fraud. Then you might not want to do it.
Actually I think he is right. So what if they have your credit card number. In fact if they do charge you for things you didn't order so much the better. Charge-back again. The charge back WILL hurt them and enough of them would definitely hurt their bottom line and quite possible cause them to lose their merchant account.
Unless they have a signed receipt the credit card company will side with you every time.
Thanks! That is all very, very helpful. I don't know if I will ever actually need this but if I do I'll have a much better grasp of where to begin.
Is is possible to access this through PHP?
I just had a thought. What I really want to do is generate some sort of office documents on the web. That way I can make word processing documents, spreadsheets, charts, graphs etc that my clients can download. Now I would love to just generate Open Office XML files and have them use those. The problem with that is that none of my clients use Open Office and they are not going to for the foreseeable future.
Here however is my super cool idea that I just came up with:
An open office server. If open office can export to MS Office Formats what's to stop me from doing the following (other than time).
1) create my templates in open office XML format
2) extract the parts of open office that import from the OO XML format to it's internal format, and export to MS Office format.
3) Create a PHP extension (or maybe apache module) to expose this functionality to my web apps.
4) Insert dynamic database driven content into my OO XML templates, convert them to MS Office format and stream them out to a client.
Maybe not the product of an ideal world but given the fact that MS Office is both closed an ubiquitous this seems to be a great way to leverage the capabilities open office in handling XML and MS Office import/export.
Would it be illegal to down their site if they are based in Hungary?
:)
Just curious.
uh... no
GNUStep - usually runs on linux usually on intel hardware
Cocoa - always runs on Apple (PPC) hardware.
It would be cool to have an emulation layer that would run all of the cool apple apps but that wouldn't make any sense for porting Chimera. It would make much more sense and be A LOT easier to just try to get it compiling under the GNU step libraries.
Last time I was in ultimate electronics checking out the new big screen HDTVs I noticed many of them were "firewire ready". When I asked the salesman what on earth this was for he said that eventually all communication with the TV (audio/vidio input/output) would be done over firewire.
Does anyone know anything about this? At least I think it refutes fairly well this guys assertion that no one is going to adopt it. If it is becoming a standard on even TVs I hardly think it's going away.
I'm just curious. What kind of unusual stuff are you doing?
"PHP's language leaves much to be desired in team programming and code readability." - Could you please explain this in enough detail for it to mean something to someone with no experience with zope or python.
"PHP lacks object persistence" - Yes this sucks.
"multiple inheritance" - Does zope do multiple inheritance like C++ or like Java (which doesn't really have multiple inheritance of couse but sort of does)
"full-featured transaction machinery" - Could you please explain what this means in terms of what sort of problems it would solve for me.
"built-in security model" - I have built one into the framework that I wrote for php. Why would I want the language to force it on me? Or is it a function of the zope frameworks?
"interactive command-line interface" - Why would I want this.
"too tied to web-scripting only" - True. But it is something that they are focusing on more now. (yes vaporware vaporware blah blah). But it does fine for me now since I don't really need to do desktop gui stuff and writing command line stuff in php is actually quite easy.
"And becuase it doesn't have a security model that binds operations to roles/permissions, it can't easily put gateway methods with bound roles (like Zope's proxy roles) between web code and SQL code, leading to increased chance of SQL injection vulnerabilities." - Are these not things that can be handled at the framework level. I add to my framwork as I need to and these problems all have reasonable solutions that can be implemented in php.
"On the other hand, Zope has object perisistence" - Yes this does suck.
"transactional RDBMS integration " - Uh and php doesn't have this? What exactly does zope do for you here that php doesn't? Maybe I don't understand what you mean here.
"connection abstraction" - PEAR provides a very nice database connection abstraction. (pear.php.net)
"templated" - Are you taking about separating user interface (html) code from your programming logic? Please go to smarty.php.net. I stopped mixing code and html after my first real project.
"componentized SQL methods" - Could you please explain this.
"security framework" - Once again is this part of the framework or the language?
"Python, which is a much better language" - This I know nothing about (on the python end that is)
"And if you need to do any sort of content-management, Zope has a mature component-oriented framwork in the CMF" - And php has nothing to help you out with content management??? It seems like a new content mangemnet system show up on freshmeat every other day.
"with a killer-app implementation in Plone" - Because nothing like this exists in PHP??? There are tons of apps writting in php that could be cnsidered killer-app quality if this was the standard of measurement.
"It also has XML-RPC, WebDAV, Caching managers, and all sorts of other goodies you won't find out of the box in PHP." - You are right on some of these but not other. But this doesn't mean that php doesn't have anything out of the box that zope lacks.
"PHP is fast, and it is easy, but it is by no means scalable" - Do you have something to back that up?
"utilize a templating technology that doesn't promote mixing logic and presentation " - Anyone with any brains has already done this. There are tons of templating options for php.
I am not trying to argue here as my knowledge of zope is nill. Many of your complaints though are simply not true. Others have not been a problem for me. I have been using php for 2 or 3 years now and I regret to say that it has prevented me from looking at other solutions (I have mostly been eyeing J2EE). It has always been fairly easy to add the functionality that I need to my php framework. I wonder though what I am missing. Am I reinventing the wheel by writing things that would already be taken care of with zope or J2EE? what methodalogies could help me code faster that I simply don't know about because they are not part of the php way of doing things.
I agree PHP started out as a cheap hack and it does seem like sort of a kludge at times but for me it has always been very practical and reliable. It has a large and helpful community. It is easy to admin and manage. There is TONS of free code out there to handle anything you want to do. There are TONS of great apps http://freshmeat.net/browse/160/?topic_id=160 and development is quick and easy even on "large" projects.
I am interested however in knowing what zope could really do for me to make it worth giving up php.
Thanks.
Were you by chance connecting to MS SQL for this application. The only time I have ever had problems with PHP was when I was trying to connect ot MS SQL in which case I had problems exactly like the ones you are describing. I switched to postgres and never had another problem.