Some people always complain... the answer to those people is STFU unless they have a real compelling reason as in "you can not do X in Y and we need to do X to make/save/create money"
Does this also apply to people who are working for a company that uses Windows and MS Office, and complain that it's not Linux/OO?
Is there anyone who really thought it would go any other way?
Yes. Linux fans have been absolutely sure the Munich transition would complete successfully. You can't pretend it was always stacked against it now, just because it didn't work out.
Take a look at the settings app. A settings app that's a grey grouped listbox with separation rules going part way across the screen and rightward facing chevrons indicating that a tap will pan in another screen from the right. Almost identical pallette. And whilst they've changed the icons there from rounded squares to circles, the symbols are mostly the same. Look at the "Do Not Disturb" item. Identical "moon" concept, drawn in the same way, other than outline rather than filled in. And exactly the same color.
Tell me that's coincidence or not copying, and I say you're the one in drugs.
Never, I refuse to support vendor controlled execution environments regardless of the vendor doing it. I believe it is morally indefensible and ultimately dangerous to society for any single vendor or trio of such vendors to wield this kind of power.
OK, so that says that for you it's a moral crusade, not an interest in what works.
I trust my own eyes. All app stores are loaded with ubiquitous mounds of trash
As you are neither a user not developer of iOS apps, then I don't trust your eyes, because you have no experience of the Apple App Store. You might have glanced at it. But you haven't spent much time, nor used it as I have. You are generalizing from the Android app stores, which already provides much of the freedom you desire, and are shit as a result.
I think fart apps and assorted silliness is great for those few seeking that sort of thing. It is not so great when you have no other choice.
And there your argument really jumps the shark. There are over a million apps in the Apple App Store, not just fart apps. If you want to see the best examples see Apple Design Awards.
I'm afraid you've demonstrated you're just ranting, not taking part in a serious and meaningful discussion.
Manufacturing happens in China because it's still labour intensive, and Chinese workers are cheap. Increasingly though, manufacturing is completely automated. At which point China has no advantage over anywhere else. At that stage there is advantage to manufacturing closer to the customers.
$15 billion since 2008... minus Apple's 30% cut... that's 10.5 billion... over 7 years... $1.5 billion a year.. divided by 300,000 iOS jobs created in the US equals $5,000 over 7 years, or $714 per dev per year average.
Mistake 1: You divided by 7 years twice. In other words you divided by 49 years. Big oops.
Mistake 2: You assume that the developers are all trying to make money from app store sales. Which they are not. On the one side you have the hobbyists and FOSS enthusiasts that put things up for free. On the other side you have companies whose business is not apps, that feel the need to have an app presence. Then you have companies who do make money from having apps, but indirectly.
Mistake 3: You average. But people don't earn averages. As I mentioned in a previous post, there are professionals who hire designers and do marketing, and earn a living. Then there are amateurs that don't do these things and fail to earn a living.
The result of your mistakes is that you believe that no one is making a living from the app store, but it's a fact that people are. On the one hand you have the indies that we know about from the internet. On the other hand you can simply look at job listings and see that if you had iOS skills you too could earn a good living as an iOS developer working for someone else.
Since it's coming up to the start of a new academic year I thought I'd take this opportunity to explain how lucky you Americans are to have a fraternity system.
English Universities are so dull by comparison. Like most students in England I had to rent private accommodation for my second and third years, but it never occurred to us to build a whole culture around collectively renting a rather dilapidated house in Clapham. It wasn't even single sex accommodation, so we couldn't engage in the fun and games of para-homosexual activities - Girls just don't have the same grip on your loyalties as your Greek brothers. And while cliques certainly form in English Universities, the are all much too boring to come up with the idea of hazing. I fondly recall diving off a weir and almost drowning when I was 12 because everyone said I was chicken. If only it had been possible for me to gain respect in later life through similar tests, and if these tests could have been combined with pseudo Masonic rituals culminating in the awarding of a little badge, then that truly would have made my time at University worthwhile. And while I still have friends from University, these friendships seem so hollow compared to bonds of fraternal brotherhood since they are not based on solemn vows of fellowship, mutual sacrifice, group solidarity and owning the same poxy little badge.
Then there's sheer joy alcohol seems to bring fraternity members.. By the time I went to university the delights of getting dangerously drunk at parties had started to seem mundane. But to American students in fraternities, the bravado of excessive alcohol consumption is a an exciting new and illicit game where you can prove yourself worthy to all your male friends and simultaneously circumvent college alcohol policy - thereby proving what a rebel you are too. Gosh.
I am also rather fond of the references to ancient Greece. It reeks of a history far nobler and grander than anything a British University can instill its students with, and the wearing of togas must make it seem as authentic as a ploughman's lunch. I think what I am trying to say is that Fraternities give young Americans the chance to grow up in their own time, and that it is regrettable that no similar opportunity is afforded to European Students. In particular, I find it sad that even some American students fore go the opportunity to wear togas and claim to be Greek. Really this should be mandatory, so every graduate will be secure in the knowledge that they have gained something much more valuable than a degree from an American University - a little badge with some Greek letters on it.
Although I am not American, I admire the system so much that I would dearly love to become an honorary member of a fraternity. I have set my heart on becoming an alumni of Theta Omicron Sigma Sigma Epsilon Ro Sigma. I do so hope this is possible.
Your sister might never buy apps, but that's an anecdote, not data. Between them, as of a year ago, iOS users have spent $15 billion. That's data.
$15 billion means an income for an awful lot of developers. For sure, the kind of developers you are talking about - that want to scratch their own itch, and that don't spend money on a designer, and don't actively market their app - they won't earn much money. But professional developers creating worthwhile apps can and do make a living.
Never complained about the apps myself, only what it costs to get one into the store, market it and sell it.
Oh, OK, there was a little ambiguity, and I thought you were complaining about both.
If the cost of getting on the store ($99 regardless of how many apps) is an issue, then your apps are part of the actual problem. They are bad enough to only get a few sales a year, and only clutter up the catalogue of available apps with something no one would buy other than by mistake.
You mention FOSS. Well most FOSS stuff is crap. The few worthwhile projects have enough supporters behind them that the they don't seem to find $99 a year a problem either.
FOSS enthusiasts are probably better off with Android. iOS users just want stuff that's of decent quality. They typically aren't playing politics with their software choices.
Let me ask you another question. In the real world here on earth do you think we would all be better off if all stores and malls were replaced by a single entity offering one global channel with one set of take it or leave it rules for buyers and sellers?
The success of Amazon online and Walmart offline suggests that regardless of what they say they want, people actually like to have a one stop shop where they can get everything - provided the prices are kept low.
Of course it would be a bad thing if those stores were to become absolutely the only ones, but that's not what's happening with App Stores. The Apple App Store isn't the only app store, it's just the only one for iOS. And people choose to enter into the iOS ecosystem, be they users or developers. They could choose to go for the more open model of Android, but they didn't. For iOS users, the one stop curated store is seen as a feature, not a problem. And for iOS developers also.
Are you an iOS user or developer?
Lots of app developers hate this because most of them by volume are in fact bottom feeders who seek to collect payment without doing much to provide value in return and an honest to god real functioning market would put an end to their bullshit.
Trust me, it's not only a functioning market it's a difficult one. If your mobile app "doesn't provide much value", the sales will be tiny.
1. Rapes in prisons hardly factor into the daily lives of people outside of prisons.
So that makes it OK? Lets cut to the quick. You're only concerned with threats to yourself, aren't you?
Women in prisons face a far, far higher chance of being raped than men in prisons.
Wrong. "Christine Saum's 1994 survey of 101 inmates showed 5 had been sexually assaulted.[9] Among women the number is one in forty and the offenders are more likely to be prison staff members." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P... That's 5% of the general prison population, but only 2.5% of women prisoners.
2. Women are approximately three times more likely to be on the receiving end of intimate partner violence, according to this link.
You still haven't understood that the statistics don't give you permission to not care about some categories of victims.
3. Black people are far, far more likely to be convicted of the same crime than white people, so it isn't at all clear that they are more violent in actuality.
Absolutely. Likewise men are far more likely to be convicted of violence to women than women are to men, partly because of the same problem of stereotypes; partly because men are far less likely to report a crime that's been committed to them than a woman is; and partly because when the police just want to separate a couple having a domestic, they'll usually arrest the man, even if he wasn't the one that was being violent before they arrived.
An SSH client that hasn't been updated in 4 years may not be taking any account of vulnerabilities that have appeared in that time. There is no shortage of SSH apps on that store that are being actively updated, so what's lost by removing this one? Those people that already have this one presumably wouldn't lose it just because it's not there for new buyers.
The more general picture is that the odd worthwhile app that hasn't been updated in years is vastly outweighed by the crap that hasn't. The signal to nose ration is improved by removing them, even if the occasional decent app is removed. If the developer wants it relisted, it would at least prompt them to take a fresh look at the app and compile it against the lastest libraries, and update it for the latest UI expectations before uploading a new version.
Sure, if it's purely a hobby, such that $99 a year could make or break, then by all means develop for Android, if that's the phone you have. In fact the fragmentation needn't bother you either because you only really want an app to run in your own phone. That way your slap dash amateur effort isn't adding yet more to the noise to signal ratio on the Apple App Store. At worst it's cluttering up the Google Play store.
Mind you, if you only want an app to run on your own phone, then you don't have to pay to be an Apple developer either.
Is it the best crossword puzzle app on the store? Is it even in the top 10?
I know lots of people who still use it.
What you don't say is: Lots of people still buy it.
The people who still use it will still be able to use it even if it's removed from the store.
I too published an app within weeks of the store opening. A weight tracking app. When better apps came along, that had proper designers working on them, I wasn't particularly interested in taking it further, so I removed it from the store.
None of which addresses the actual problems listed.
You're just sticking your own biases for how things should be run, probably as someone who doesn't even use the platform, with a bogus problem that doesn't exist - there is no lack of innovation in iOS apps.
I think this is an issue of the paradox of choice. There's already too much chose facing consumers. Multiple stores only multiply the choice, making it harder still.
Your suggestion of mode/different lists is already possible and already done. The lists don't have to be on the store - they only have to link to it.
You seem to be pursuing a dream where Apple drives customers to independent Apps.
Not at all. Developers have to take control of their own marketing. But multiple stores just add to the amount of work needed, whilst delivering no benefit.
There are apps that were put up years ago, presumably were not much of a success, and remain, never updated. All they do is clutter the store up, and make it harder to find the good, up-to date stuff. They should be removed. It's not obvious how...
Perhaps when sales have faded to almost nothing. Perhaps remove any that are still using deprecated APIs. Perhaps remove any that are not using iOS 7 design features. Perhaps increase the yearly charge for being on the store... maybe decoupling it from the charge to be a developer. And make the charge per app, such that no hoper apps are voluntarily given up.
Allow and encourage third parties to run their own app stores. Make it easy for users to add competing app stores to their phones just like they can add "search providers" to their web browsers.
This doesn't solve the problems listed, it makes them worse. By having multiple stores you decrease each apps visibility, unless the developers do much more work to list their apps in every store. Taking time that would otherwise be devoted to developing more or better apps.
Slashdot Mirror
"The one example of transitioning to desktop Linux. And it's failed."
That's not the one example. Lots of unix, mainframe and mini shops transitioned quickly and easily.
Did you miss the word "desktop" in there?
Some people always complain... the answer to those people is STFU unless they have a real compelling reason as in "you can not do X in Y and we need to do X to make/save/create money"
Does this also apply to people who are working for a company that uses Windows and MS Office, and complain that it's not Linux/OO?
Is there anyone who really thought it would go any other way?
Yes. Linux fans have been absolutely sure the Munich transition would complete successfully. You can't pretend it was always stacked against it now, just because it didn't work out.
Ha ha!
The one example of transitioning to desktop Linux. And it's failed. I think we can finally say that it will never be the year of Linux on the desktop.
Take a look at the settings app. A settings app that's a grey grouped listbox with separation rules going part way across the screen and rightward facing chevrons indicating that a tap will pan in another screen from the right. Almost identical pallette. And whilst they've changed the icons there from rounded squares to circles, the symbols are mostly the same. Look at the "Do Not Disturb" item. Identical "moon" concept, drawn in the same way, other than outline rather than filled in. And exactly the same color.
Tell me that's coincidence or not copying, and I say you're the one in drugs.
"Are you an iOS user or developer?"
Never, I refuse to support vendor controlled execution environments regardless of the vendor doing it. I believe it is morally indefensible and ultimately dangerous to society for any single vendor or trio of such vendors to wield this kind of power.
OK, so that says that for you it's a moral crusade, not an interest in what works.
I trust my own eyes. All app stores are loaded with ubiquitous mounds of trash
As you are neither a user not developer of iOS apps, then I don't trust your eyes, because you have no experience of the Apple App Store. You might have glanced at it. But you haven't spent much time, nor used it as I have. You are generalizing from the Android app stores, which already provides much of the freedom you desire, and are shit as a result.
I think fart apps and assorted silliness is great for those few seeking that sort of thing. It is not so great when you have no other choice.
And there your argument really jumps the shark. There are over a million apps in the Apple App Store, not just fart apps. If you want to see the best examples see Apple Design Awards.
I'm afraid you've demonstrated you're just ranting, not taking part in a serious and meaningful discussion.
Manufacturing happens in China because it's still labour intensive, and Chinese workers are cheap. Increasingly though, manufacturing is completely automated. At which point China has no advantage over anywhere else. At that stage there is advantage to manufacturing closer to the customers.
$15 billion since 2008 ... minus Apple's 30% cut ... that's 10.5 billion ... over 7 years ... $1.5 billion a year .. divided by 300,000 iOS jobs created in the US equals $5,000 over 7 years, or $714 per dev per year average.
Mistake 1: You divided by 7 years twice. In other words you divided by 49 years. Big oops.
Mistake 2: You assume that the developers are all trying to make money from app store sales. Which they are not. On the one side you have the hobbyists and FOSS enthusiasts that put things up for free. On the other side you have companies whose business is not apps, that feel the need to have an app presence. Then you have companies who do make money from having apps, but indirectly.
Mistake 3: You average. But people don't earn averages. As I mentioned in a previous post, there are professionals who hire designers and do marketing, and earn a living. Then there are amateurs that don't do these things and fail to earn a living.
The result of your mistakes is that you believe that no one is making a living from the app store, but it's a fact that people are. On the one hand you have the indies that we know about from the internet. On the other hand you can simply look at job listings and see that if you had iOS skills you too could earn a good living as an iOS developer working for someone else.
Since it's coming up to the start of a new academic year I thought I'd take this opportunity to explain how lucky you Americans are to have a fraternity system.
English Universities are so dull by comparison. Like most students in England I had to rent private accommodation for my second and third years, but it never occurred to us to build a whole culture around collectively renting a rather dilapidated house in Clapham. It wasn't even single sex accommodation, so we couldn't engage in the fun and games of para-homosexual activities - Girls just don't have the same grip on your loyalties as your Greek brothers. And while cliques certainly form in English Universities, the are all much too boring to come up with the idea of hazing. I fondly recall diving off a weir and almost drowning when I was 12 because everyone said I was chicken. If only it had been possible for me to gain respect in later life through similar tests, and if these tests could have been combined with pseudo Masonic rituals culminating in the awarding of a little badge, then that truly would have made my time at University worthwhile. And while I still have friends from University, these friendships seem so hollow compared to bonds of fraternal brotherhood since they are not based on solemn vows of fellowship, mutual sacrifice, group solidarity and
owning the same poxy little badge.
Then there's sheer joy alcohol seems to bring fraternity members.. By the time I went to university the delights of getting dangerously drunk at parties had started to seem mundane. But to American students in fraternities, the bravado of excessive alcohol consumption is a an exciting new and illicit game where you can prove yourself worthy to all your male friends and simultaneously circumvent college alcohol policy - thereby proving what a rebel you are too. Gosh.
I am also rather fond of the references to ancient Greece. It reeks of a history far nobler and grander than anything a British University can instill its students with, and the wearing of togas must make it seem as authentic as a ploughman's lunch.
I think what I am trying to say is that Fraternities give young Americans the chance to grow up in their own time, and that it is regrettable that no similar opportunity is afforded to European Students. In particular, I find it sad that even some American students fore go the opportunity to wear togas and claim to be Greek. Really this should be mandatory, so every graduate will be secure in the knowledge that they have gained something much more valuable than a degree from an American University - a little badge with some Greek letters on it.
Although I am not American, I admire the system so much that I would dearly love to become an honorary member of a fraternity. I have set my heart on becoming an alumni of Theta Omicron Sigma Sigma Epsilon Ro Sigma. I do so hope this is possible.
Not true here. This tall building stands pretty much alone amongst low buildings. It's an effect of the building itself, not of a group of buildings.
$99 is a low bar, especially if spread over multiple apps. It's only a couple of sales a week.
Your sister might never buy apps, but that's an anecdote, not data. Between them, as of a year ago, iOS users have spent $15 billion. That's data.
$15 billion means an income for an awful lot of developers. For sure, the kind of developers you are talking about - that want to scratch their own itch, and that don't spend money on a designer, and don't actively market their app - they won't earn much money. But professional developers creating worthwhile apps can and do make a living.
Never complained about the apps myself, only what it costs to get one into the store, market it and sell it.
Oh, OK, there was a little ambiguity, and I thought you were complaining about both.
If the cost of getting on the store ($99 regardless of how many apps) is an issue, then your apps are part of the actual problem. They are bad enough to only get a few sales a year, and only clutter up the catalogue of available apps with something no one would buy other than by mistake.
You mention FOSS. Well most FOSS stuff is crap. The few worthwhile projects have enough supporters behind them that the they don't seem to find $99 a year a problem either.
FOSS enthusiasts are probably better off with Android. iOS users just want stuff that's of decent quality. They typically aren't playing politics with their software choices.
Let me ask you another question. In the real world here on earth do you think we would all be better off if all stores and malls were replaced by a single entity offering one global channel with one set of take it or leave it rules for buyers and sellers?
The success of Amazon online and Walmart offline suggests that regardless of what they say they want, people actually like to have a one stop shop where they can get everything - provided the prices are kept low.
Of course it would be a bad thing if those stores were to become absolutely the only ones, but that's not what's happening with App Stores. The Apple App Store isn't the only app store, it's just the only one for iOS. And people choose to enter into the iOS ecosystem, be they users or developers. They could choose to go for the more open model of Android, but they didn't. For iOS users, the one stop curated store is seen as a feature, not a problem. And for iOS developers also.
Are you an iOS user or developer?
Lots of app developers hate this because most of them by volume are in fact bottom feeders who seek to collect payment without doing much to provide value in return and an honest to god real functioning market would put an end to their bullshit.
Trust me, it's not only a functioning market it's a difficult one. If your mobile app "doesn't provide much value", the sales will be tiny.
1. Rapes in prisons hardly factor into the daily lives of people outside of prisons.
So that makes it OK? Lets cut to the quick. You're only concerned with threats to yourself, aren't you?
Women in prisons face a far, far higher chance of being raped than men in prisons.
Wrong.
"Christine Saum's 1994 survey of 101 inmates showed 5 had been sexually assaulted.[9] Among women the number is one in forty and the offenders are more likely to be prison staff members."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...
That's 5% of the general prison population, but only 2.5% of women prisoners.
2. Women are approximately three times more likely to be on the receiving end of intimate partner violence, according to this link.
You still haven't understood that the statistics don't give you permission to not care about some categories of victims.
3. Black people are far, far more likely to be convicted of the same crime than white people, so it isn't at all clear that they are more violent in actuality.
Absolutely. Likewise men are far more likely to be convicted of violence to women than women are to men, partly because of the same problem of stereotypes; partly because men are far less likely to report a crime that's been committed to them than a woman is; and partly because when the police just want to separate a couple having a domestic, they'll usually arrest the man, even if he wasn't the one that was being violent before they arrived.
An SSH client that hasn't been updated in 4 years may not be taking any account of vulnerabilities that have appeared in that time. There is no shortage of SSH apps on that store that are being actively updated, so what's lost by removing this one? Those people that already have this one presumably wouldn't lose it just because it's not there for new buyers.
The more general picture is that the odd worthwhile app that hasn't been updated in years is vastly outweighed by the crap that hasn't. The signal to nose ration is improved by removing them, even if the occasional decent app is removed. If the developer wants it relisted, it would at least prompt them to take a fresh look at the app and compile it against the lastest libraries, and update it for the latest UI expectations before uploading a new version.
Lots of Android developers tried straight selling apps before giving up and moving to the adware model.
Similarly many iOS developers tried straight selling of apps before moving to the freemium model that's all too pervasive now.
Sure, if it's purely a hobby, such that $99 a year could make or break, then by all means develop for Android, if that's the phone you have. In fact the fragmentation needn't bother you either because you only really want an app to run in your own phone. That way your slap dash amateur effort isn't adding yet more to the noise to signal ratio on the Apple App Store. At worst it's cluttering up the Google Play store.
Mind you, if you only want an app to run on your own phone, then you don't have to pay to be an Apple developer either.
Is it the best crossword puzzle app on the store? Is it even in the top 10?
I know lots of people who still use it.
What you don't say is: Lots of people still buy it.
The people who still use it will still be able to use it even if it's removed from the store.
I too published an app within weeks of the store opening. A weight tracking app. When better apps came along, that had proper designers working on them, I wasn't particularly interested in taking it further, so I removed it from the store.
If that were true, Apple wouldn't run the Apple Design Awards.
None of which addresses the actual problems listed.
You're just sticking your own biases for how things should be run, probably as someone who doesn't even use the platform, with a bogus problem that doesn't exist - there is no lack of innovation in iOS apps.
It was Jean-Louis Gassée proposing. He's not worked for Apple since the 80s or 90s - before he created Be and BeOS.
I think this is an issue of the paradox of choice. There's already too much chose facing consumers. Multiple stores only multiply the choice, making it harder still.
Your suggestion of mode/different lists is already possible and already done. The lists don't have to be on the store - they only have to link to it.
You seem to be pursuing a dream where Apple drives customers to independent Apps.
Not at all. Developers have to take control of their own marketing. But multiple stores just add to the amount of work needed, whilst delivering no benefit.
There are apps that were put up years ago, presumably were not much of a success, and remain, never updated. All they do is clutter the store up, and make it harder to find the good, up-to date stuff. They should be removed. It's not obvious how...
Perhaps when sales have faded to almost nothing. Perhaps remove any that are still using deprecated APIs.
Perhaps remove any that are not using iOS 7 design features.
Perhaps increase the yearly charge for being on the store... maybe decoupling it from the charge to be a developer. And make the charge per app, such that no hoper apps are voluntarily given up.
Allow and encourage third parties to run their own app stores. Make it easy for users to add competing app stores to their phones just like they can add "search providers" to their web browsers.
This doesn't solve the problems listed, it makes them worse. By having multiple stores you decrease each apps visibility, unless the developers do much more work to list their apps in every store. Taking time that would otherwise be devoted to developing more or better apps.
You can't sue a store for preferring one product over another, for their own reasons. It's standard practice for all stores to do so.