Look again at the context. The question was "iSeries vs. Windows", not "iSeries vs. x86" or "iSeries vs. x86 64". As Windows is an operating system, it would be utterly ludicrous to assume I was asking a "platform vs. operating system" question. As i5/OS (which FYI is version 5 of OS/400) is the "built-in" operating system of the iSeries, one could safely conclude that since I offered no further specifics, that this would be a question of "i5/OS vs. Windows".
In fact, I submit that had I said "i5/OS on iSeries vs. Windows" people would have thought I was being redundant. Those who use/have used an AS/400 automatically associate them with OS/400 as until recently, there was no other option. My concern was that if I asked "i5/OS vs. Windows" it would have gotten a lot of "WTF is i5/OS?" posts. Maybe it would have been a slightly better way to ask the question. Perhaps not. It's hardly important enough to waste time debating, isn't it?
BTW, were you aware that most people still refer to the iSeries as an AS/400? I could have asked "AS/400 vs. Windows", but too many people still associate the AS/400 with the green screen, and I don't think the "Windows is better because you get a GUI" argument is informed. So I used iSeries because those really "in the know" would know what I meant. Even then some people brought up how Windows was supposedly better because you could administer it via a GUI. Well, you can administer an iSeries via a GUI as well.
So you see, I think all those with an informed opinion knew what I was asking and responded appropriately. Those who promoted *NIX from a security standpoint have obviously never looked up OS/400 and compared the two. OS/400 is about as secure as you can get, as there has never been a remote system access exploit.
Anyway, even though I think (no offense) you were being a little more picky than was necessary, thank you for taking the time to respond.
I agree that the higher-end iSeries machines are expensive. There's no way we'd pay $100k for just one server. Besides, the $100k server would be severe overkill for our company. I mean, we're only talking approximately 200 employees, and most of our sales come over the phone via direct marketing. At present, an older AS/400 that originally cost $26k has been handling most of our back-end needs for many years now.
I just did some checking and you can buy an iSeries starting around $12k and they can be clustered. So 5 of these babies in their base configuration would cost about $60k. I think you may have to license middleware clustering software, so that price would go up. Also, I would guess that we would want more memory, a UPS, and redundant power supplies for those iSeries servers, so we'd be talking more than $12k apiece.
Anyway, it looks like the cost to get a fault-tolerant solution on the iSeries would be comparable to what it would cost on Windows. Am I wrong?
Thanks for the info. That's pretty impressive about allocating system resources in real time via a GUI. Without knowing anything else about the new iSeries, I would have had a hard time believing IBM would force some kind of command line green screen upon their users for administration. Given the whole Websphere/Cloudscape/Eclipse thing (Java, anyone?), IBM would have to be absolutely stupid to not make something like iSeries Navigator. So much for the "But Windows is better because you can administer everything in a nice GUI" argument. I'll have to give you a holler here in the next few days. Thanks again.
Your advice is solid. Here's the thing: I'm not the only one sold on the merits of the iSeries. The decision truly is up in the air. One other thing--and this is a rarity. Our executives are smart guys. They have demonstrated many times that they will listen to others when they know that they themselves don't have all the answers (I think they would be upset with me if I knew something and kept my mouth shut). They actively seek customer input on our products, as well as the input from the gyus on the lines. The result is that we are an American manufacturer who is thriving in the face of fierce competition from China. In fact, we even make some of our competitors' products for them. I have no problem with getting 100% behind any policy we implement and I think they know it. My job is to make sure they can make an informed decision and then support it. So I don't foresee any problems.
But thanks for the advice, man. I'd rather someone give me a heads-up and then never have to deal with the situation than to royally mess things up because I never considered that which ended up transpiring.
I never said I was the one making the decision. As a company, we (that means I too am assisting in the evaluation process) are considering five ERP packages, four of which run on Windows (because our consultants only know Windows) and the other runs on i5/OS (because my boss and I knew their reasons for not considering an AS/400 to be flat-out BS). I think my background is such that if I come out strongly on one side of a technological issue, my co-workers feel confident that I'm not blowing smoke. I've worked hard to gain their trust and respect, and am certainly sticking my neck out by taking the position I am.
BTW, you have absolutely no idea what my job is like or even should be like. When you work for a small company, you help out in whatever capacity is needed. In fact, today I came in to work 2 hours early in order to help with an inventory count. Do I care that it's not in my job description? NO. The fact of the matter is, the very nature of my job requires me to be somewhat of an expert in many areas.
Were I in your position, what you say would be 100% applicable. It just so happens that the one I am in is quite different.
Everyone knows that when you get out of college, you have to get trained for your job anyway. So why not hire someone smart and train him/her on the AS/400 as needed? I thought the main purpose of a college degree anymore was to show that 1)You're not stupid 2)You can learn 3)You're willing to put up with a lot of BS to get your BS and can therefore put up with it at work when necessary. Besides, a professor friend tells me that 70% of all college grads are working in a field unrelated to their major. In fact, a good friend who has a degree in Political Science is a DBA for Citigroup. Since he's a smart guy, I'm sure it was no problem to train him.
What is the advantage of a Windows cluster over a single (or in our case, probably 2) AS/400? Besides (maybe) lower initial hardware cost, how is a Windows cluster more secure than an AS/400?
Your troll modding is non-deserved IMHO. Those are fair questions. Let me answer them
How exactly could one bet their career on a decision like this?
Well, this is a company I want to work for for the rest of my career. So as far as I am concerned, it is my career. A poor ERP decision can wreak havoc on a company. We simply cannot afford to make a mistake here. I can see various scenarios in which I would have to find another company to work for and I don't want to do that.
I suspect this is your goal, though - the wording of your question suggests you have an answer in mind and you want validation.
That's true. I've done a ton of research, but I don't have the experience with the iSeries or AS/400 that I know other/.ers have. Everything I've seen says the iSeries kicks the snot out of a Windows server. But since a co-worker told me everyone she's talked to says they'd never touch an AS/400, I need to find out if there's a compelling reason to stay away. I'm still looking for one. BTW, since the question was "iSeries vs. Windows", those who answer "UNIX!!!" need a course in reading comprehension. Either that or they just like to pimp their favorite OS whenever given the chance. It's a great platform (better than Windows IMHO), so it's hard to blame them too much.
However, if you have no AS/400 admins in house, but you have plenty of Windows Server gurus, well, then I think you would be better off with Windows.
Here's the deal. My boss knows RPG and the AS/400. I'm the Windows guru. He'll be retiring in a few years. (BTW, we're it as far as the IT team is concerned). I can learn the AS/400 stuff. My company will send me to school if need be. So why then should we drive the company in a Yugo just because it's easy to find people with a drivers license (MCSE). As every single aspect of our business (except e-mail) will depend upon the availability of the ERP system, I cannot see this as justification to not buy the tank when we can afford it. It seems to me that lack of AS/400 skills hardly matters when 1)Then can be learned and 2) They'll almost never be needed.
I just did a 6-page report for our ERP team on the topic of stability and security of the AS/400 vs. Windows Server 2003. With nearly 200 vulnerabilities, many of which were extremely critical and/or allowed remote 0wn3rsh1p for Windows (yes, I'm counting IE 6.x vulnerabilities because it's a shell to the OS) versus 2 almost non-issues with ZERO remote 0wn3rsh1p for OS/4.x, there's no comparison. Plus, there has never been an AS/400 virus or other malware AFIK. How much money do people spend every year on antivirus and antispyware for Windows? How many programs like Metasploit that allow any script kiddie full access to your Windows server are there for the AS/400? When was the last zero-day exloit for the AS/400? Again, tell me why I should recommend we run our entire operation on Windows over an iSeries when we can afford the iSeries? What would justify such an enormous gamble?
To answer your question, I would point out the mass of windows problems and ask someone to show anything that has gone wrong with (insert midrange / mainframe platform here) that has caused the same effect.
Already done. You'd have to be a fool to think that Windows can even compare to the iSeries. And I say this as a newcomer to the AS/400. It's like Mike Tyson in his prime--no one could even touch him. The only problem we ever had with our AS/400 was a couple of batteries in the UPS died and the end result was that it cut off all power to the unit. If I didn't have to change the backup tape every day, I would never have to touch it. We can afford to buy a new iSeries to replace it. Our Windows server has already seen several hours of downtime this year just for critical and other software updates. I'm still looking for a good reason to recommend we replace our AS/400 with a Windows server.
After taking a week-long course in pen-testing and seeing just how easy it is to compromise Windows boxes, and considering the ramifications of having our server broken into or getting infected, I am more security conscious than I ever have been in my life. Since the decision has been made to put all our eggs into one basket and we have sufficient money in the budget to buy pretty much whatever we want, why pick Windows over i5/OS? If/. readers can't come up with a convincing reason, it makes me strongly suspect that there really isn't one.
My co-worker told me everyone she's talked to about the AS/400 (iSeries) has told her there's no way they'd ever go with one. I can't find any good reason not to (maybe it's because I have 21 years of using MS-based systems under my belt). It's more mature, stable, and secure than Windows by an enormous margin. For instance, rounded down there's 0% risk of a viral infection. Since the new ERP system will mean all our eggs will be in one basket (we're consolidating different functions being hosted on 3 different server platforms), I want to know why going with Windows will be worth the risk when we have $500,000 to invest in the system. Since you're obviously an iSeries person, are there any negatives about them at all?
All things being (nearly) equal, platform is a huge consideration. If your entire operation depends on the availability of your ERP software, you cannot afford downtime for any reason. That's the thing. We are putting all our eggs into one basket. With aproximately 200 employees and $500,000 to spend on ERP software, why should we go with a platform that has a horrendous track record on security? Sure, if you were a mechanic, you could save $$$ by buying the cheapest tools sold by WalMart. Or you could pay more for Snap-On. Saving money up front often bites you hard in the butt down the road. I'm still looking for a convincing argument that it's better to run our entire operation on a platform with an enormous risk for downtime versus one that has virtually none.
I do want to know, are iSeries and Windows your only options?
Unfortunately, yes. About a year before I landed this job, our company started working with a consulting group whose purpose was to help us implement "lean" manufacturing. As a part of the process, it is quite clear our old "green screen" ERP software just won't cut it. Anyway, these guys only know Windows and that's all they recommend.
When I got into the picture just before we sent RFI's out, I got to ask our consultants a few questions. One of them was whether we were considering anything other than Windows-centric solutions. When I asked why not anything AS/400 based, they responded that the only ERP software for the AS/400 was tier-1 solutions like JD Edwards. My boss and I called BS, and found an ERP package for the iSeries that looks to be every bit as good or better than any of Microsoft's offerings (and cheaper too!). So it got included in our RFI's.
I guess what I would like to know then, is there any good reason not to go with an AS/400 based ERP system? I mean, according to everything I've seen in terms of stability and security, i5/OS makes even Linux look insecure and unstable. As this ERP system would consolidate several apps hosted on 3 different servers, downtime would mean a company-wide shutdown. I know you can cluster Windows, but what happens when you get a virus or worm in the network before the AV company updates the definitions? Can you clean it without any server downtime? If so, maybe Windows wouldn't be too bad. But then there's still the issue of 0wnership...
Absolutely! I'm interested and I'd bet my life others are as well. If I were you, I wouldn't base the amount of interest solely on replies to your post. After all, at this moment it's modded a "1" and therefore many/.ers will not see it. It's stuff like what you're offering that the community really needs.
I can't believe the most critical vulnerability inherent in IE has not been mentioned yet. What I am referring to is the fact that IE is a shell to the operating system
For the benefit of those who don't know what that means, opening up IE is effectively the equivalent of opening up a command prompt. Any command typed into IE will behave as if you typed it into a command prompt and will execute with whatever privileges you have. For most users, this will be Administrator. Another brilliant design choice.
Go ahead and type "c:\windows\system32\calc.exe" (or "c:\winnt\system32\calc.exe" depending on the name of your system directory) in IE and watch as Calc opens up. Try it with FF and you'll be prompted to save it--nothing more.
I don't know. You tell me. Which is the secure option and which is the security flaw so inexpressibly stupid it should be considered criminal negligence?
Now I know why I enjoyed your post so much. Tazwell, eh? I grew up in Washington County (John S. Battle class of '93). So I kind of have an idea where you're coming from. And you're on your way into med school? Good on ya!!!! I hope you graduate at the top of a class filled with yankees and NOVA's =D
On a side note, I had the following experience my freshman year of college (out of state, BTW). A guy living on my floor was from Faquier County, VA. He asked me how I did on some of the standardized tests (ACT, AP exams). At the time I graduated, I was only the 3rd person (and only male) in my high school's 30+ year history to score a 5 on the AP English Exam. Anyway, after I finished sharing my accomplishments with him, I could tell by the look on his face what he was thinking.
"What's the matter?" I asked him. "Do you find it hard to believe someone from Southwest Virginia could do so well?"
"Actually," he replied, "Yeah. I do."
Fortunately for him, my desire to yank his head out of his butt and slam it repeatedly against the wall was outweighed by my desire not to get expelled and go to jail.
To his credit, at least he was honest about being "elitist NOVA scum";)
I have a perspective most Slashdotters will never have, as I grew up in the county where Mr. Boucher's office is located. While he talks a great talk in favor of fair use rights, and thus makes all of us feel warm and fuzzy, you don't know the rest of the story. You don't know that the man with the silver tongue is only effective when it comes to doing just what it takes to get himself re-elected.
Virginia's "Fighting Ninth" district is composed of mainly tobacco farmers, coal miners, and blue collar workers. The public school systems there are for the most part, woefully inadequate. Every two years he strings along his constituants with ads of elderly people who endorse him because "When my Social Security claim was denied, I turned to Rick Boucher. He fought for my rights and got me my Social Security. He truly cares about all of us." Tobacco farmers proclaim what a great guy he is because he "fights" for them too.
Oddly enough, the local economy keeps getting worse and worse. People are losing their jobs, and there's nothing to keep the area's best and brightest students around when they get back from college. He votes the way he needs to to make his less-perceiving constituants think he cares about them by trying to preserve an economic base that is doomed to ultimately collapse, while doing nothing to move the region into the 21st century. I mean, heck, the area is at least 10 years behind the rest of the country in so many areas it's not funny. While trying to preserve tobacco farming and coal mining as the region's major economic base is unsustainable, it gets votes.
Oddly enough, most of the people in southwest VA are very religious, ultra-conservative Christians, who would be shocked at the way Mr. Boucher votes on the so-called "moral issues". But it's amazing what a person desperate not to lose his/her job in an area where finding another one is nearly impossible without any kind of skills or education will overlook if he/she foolishly thinks that voting for Mr. Boucher will mean 2 more years of employment. And when you can't read, or else don't read very well, it's far too easy to fall for the crafty lies of such a gifted speaker. Trust me, this man is the epitome of a slick politician. When you consider that (assuming others are correct) he voted for the DMCA, and given that he indicated that he has something the RIAA/MPAA want and they have something he wants, I'm willing to bet that all this talk is just a bargaining chip to get what he really wants--broadband for southwest VA. Most of his constituants probably don't even have computers, much less even $20/month to spend on broadband, but if he can get that for the voters, it will assure yet another term. Did anyone notice how he indicated that broadband is as essential to survival as electricity? (It's not) No, mark my words, this is all about deceiving the less-educated voter base into thinking he really cares about making their lives better, while ignoring the underlying causes of the region's economic woes. I am positive that his position will change as soon as it gets him what he really wants--2 more years in Washington. Just wait and see.
If Apple really works on shining up Wine (or buys out some other Wine based company - Crossover I believe?), then they can offer Windows compatibility with a certain number of apps, perhaps a solid list such as Photoshop, Office, etc (and grow the list as necessary).
Am I missing something here? I thought Photoshop was originally an Apple-only product, and the Windows version was a port. Also, MS provides a version of Office that runs natively on OS X. So why would I need Wine to run PS or MS Office on the Intel version of a Mac?
2) Why does anyone really care about games on their Windows box anymore? I mean, it seems to me that what it costs to buy one of the current or soon-to-be-released gaming colsoles gives you much more than the same amount of money will get you on the equivalent gear for your PC. Plus, it seems that there are more game titles available for consoles. And if you don't want to pay full price for a console-based game, there are bazillions of them available used at pawn shops and specialty stores.
Seriously, the only reason I can think of anynoe not chosing a better gaming experience on a console, and a better computer experience on a Mactel machine, is money. It's probably more difficult to pirate games for PlayStation than it is to pirate the Windows version. My prediction: In a few years, the whole issue of gaming on Windows will disappear as a reason to not go to Linux or OS X.
After all but completely ruining the Star Wars story by coming out with episodes I and II, Lucas blew the perfect opportinity to redeem himself with ROTS.
Here's how Anakin should have gone over to the dark side:
----- (Palpatine and Anakin are conversing in the Chancellor's office.)
Palpatine: The dark side will make you powerful beyond your wildest dreams. Join me. Become my apprentice. Come over to the dark side.
Anakin: What must I do to become a sith lord?
(Doors open and Jar-Jar lopes in)
Jar-Jar: Hewo Annie! Meesa was tinkin dat...
(Cut to head shot of Anakin, obviously furious that Jar-Jar has interrupted the conversation at such a crucial moment)
Palpatine: (With great disgust) Release your hatred!
(Anakin grabs Jar-Jar with the force and slams him head-first into the ceiling. Simultaneously, he releases Jar-Jar and whips out his light saber, slicing the @#$%! Gungan into tiny bits before he hits the ground.)
Palpatine: (Barely audible over the wild cheers ocurring in theaters across the globe) Well-done, young Skywalker. Your journey to the dark side is now complete.
Not a surprise. When my oldest son was still a toddler, he didn't have a single toy car. One day we went to visit my parents. My youngest sister gave him a Barbie doll to play with.
So what did he do with it? He pushed it across the floor going "Vroom! Vroom!"
Socialization? I call BS! Those who think that the differences made by an entire chromosome are merely limited to determnining whether the person has a penis and testicles, or a vagina and breasts, and that everything else is due to socialization are delusional.
I realize it's not PC to say that gender differences are more than genatalia, but seriously. A hammer is not a screwdriver. Big whoop. Just because they're different, it doesn't mean that one is more important to have in a toolbox than another. Same with gender.
I think some people are forgetting that "equal" doesn't always mean "identical"--as in $100 in quarters is equal in value to a $100 bill. One is easier to carry around, the other can buy things the other can't, etc. Likewise, male is equal to female in value. How can something so simple be that hard to comprehend?
Quick question. If I hear about a LAN party and tell you it will take place on April 19, but for whatever the reason, (whether I am being dishonest or simply misunderstood what I read or was told) it actually takes place on April 18. If you then tell all your friends there's a LAN party at X location on April 19, and they all show up and there isn't one, did you lie to them? Of course not. You simply repeated information you thought was accurate that really wasn't.
Now, if you're the President of the United States, there aren't enough hours in the day to personally research all the details on all the decisions in which you have to be involved. That's why the President has a cabinet. He picks advisors he trusts to give him accurate information upon which he can base his decisions. They, in turn, get their information from others, who get it from others, and so forth.
To assert that Bush lied is to assume he had absolute knowledge that his information was incorrect, and intended to deceive the world. Based on what I've seen and heard, there's not enough evidence to make such a case beyond any reasonable doubt. If there were, I would expect the Democrats in the House to push for a justly-deserved impeachment. If Bush really did lie, then why isn't there any push for impeachment? Because it's merely an allegation lacking in substantiating evidence. In all likelihood, all Bush did was repeat bad information, which is a far cry from deliberate deceit. So this juror votes "not guilty".
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Look again at the context. The question was "iSeries vs. Windows", not "iSeries vs. x86" or "iSeries vs. x86 64". As Windows is an operating system, it would be utterly ludicrous to assume I was asking a "platform vs. operating system" question. As i5/OS (which FYI is version 5 of OS/400) is the "built-in" operating system of the iSeries, one could safely conclude that since I offered no further specifics, that this would be a question of "i5/OS vs. Windows".
In fact, I submit that had I said "i5/OS on iSeries vs. Windows" people would have thought I was being redundant. Those who use/have used an AS/400 automatically associate them with OS/400 as until recently, there was no other option. My concern was that if I asked "i5/OS vs. Windows" it would have gotten a lot of "WTF is i5/OS?" posts. Maybe it would have been a slightly better way to ask the question. Perhaps not. It's hardly important enough to waste time debating, isn't it?
BTW, were you aware that most people still refer to the iSeries as an AS/400? I could have asked "AS/400 vs. Windows", but too many people still associate the AS/400 with the green screen, and I don't think the "Windows is better because you get a GUI" argument is informed. So I used iSeries because those really "in the know" would know what I meant. Even then some people brought up how Windows was supposedly better because you could administer it via a GUI. Well, you can administer an iSeries via a GUI as well.
So you see, I think all those with an informed opinion knew what I was asking and responded appropriately. Those who promoted *NIX from a security standpoint have obviously never looked up OS/400 and compared the two. OS/400 is about as secure as you can get, as there has never been a remote system access exploit.
Anyway, even though I think (no offense) you were being a little more picky than was necessary, thank you for taking the time to respond.
I agree that the higher-end iSeries machines are expensive. There's no way we'd pay $100k for just one server. Besides, the $100k server would be severe overkill for our company. I mean, we're only talking approximately 200 employees, and most of our sales come over the phone via direct marketing. At present, an older AS/400 that originally cost $26k has been handling most of our back-end needs for many years now.
I just did some checking and you can buy an iSeries starting around $12k and they can be clustered. So 5 of these babies in their base configuration would cost about $60k. I think you may have to license middleware clustering software, so that price would go up. Also, I would guess that we would want more memory, a UPS, and redundant power supplies for those iSeries servers, so we'd be talking more than $12k apiece.
Anyway, it looks like the cost to get a fault-tolerant solution on the iSeries would be comparable to what it would cost on Windows. Am I wrong?
Thanks for the info. That's pretty impressive about allocating system resources in real time via a GUI. Without knowing anything else about the new iSeries, I would have had a hard time believing IBM would force some kind of command line green screen upon their users for administration. Given the whole Websphere/Cloudscape/Eclipse thing (Java, anyone?), IBM would have to be absolutely stupid to not make something like iSeries Navigator. So much for the "But Windows is better because you can administer everything in a nice GUI" argument. I'll have to give you a holler here in the next few days. Thanks again.
Your advice is solid. Here's the thing: I'm not the only one sold on the merits of the iSeries. The decision truly is up in the air. One other thing--and this is a rarity. Our executives are smart guys. They have demonstrated many times that they will listen to others when they know that they themselves don't have all the answers (I think they would be upset with me if I knew something and kept my mouth shut). They actively seek customer input on our products, as well as the input from the gyus on the lines. The result is that we are an American manufacturer who is thriving in the face of fierce competition from China. In fact, we even make some of our competitors' products for them. I have no problem with getting 100% behind any policy we implement and I think they know it. My job is to make sure they can make an informed decision and then support it. So I don't foresee any problems.
But thanks for the advice, man. I'd rather someone give me a heads-up and then never have to deal with the situation than to royally mess things up because I never considered that which ended up transpiring.
How is that working for you? What prompted the migration away from Windows? What ERP package did you decide to go with? Any regrets?
I never said I was the one making the decision. As a company, we (that means I too am assisting in the evaluation process) are considering five ERP packages, four of which run on Windows (because our consultants only know Windows) and the other runs on i5/OS (because my boss and I knew their reasons for not considering an AS/400 to be flat-out BS). I think my background is such that if I come out strongly on one side of a technological issue, my co-workers feel confident that I'm not blowing smoke. I've worked hard to gain their trust and respect, and am certainly sticking my neck out by taking the position I am.
BTW, you have absolutely no idea what my job is like or even should be like. When you work for a small company, you help out in whatever capacity is needed. In fact, today I came in to work 2 hours early in order to help with an inventory count. Do I care that it's not in my job description? NO. The fact of the matter is, the very nature of my job requires me to be somewhat of an expert in many areas.
Were I in your position, what you say would be 100% applicable. It just so happens that the one I am in is quite different.
Everyone knows that when you get out of college, you have to get trained for your job anyway. So why not hire someone smart and train him/her on the AS/400 as needed? I thought the main purpose of a college degree anymore was to show that 1)You're not stupid 2)You can learn 3)You're willing to put up with a lot of BS to get your BS and can therefore put up with it at work when necessary. Besides, a professor friend tells me that 70% of all college grads are working in a field unrelated to their major. In fact, a good friend who has a degree in Political Science is a DBA for Citigroup. Since he's a smart guy, I'm sure it was no problem to train him.
What is the advantage of a Windows cluster over a single (or in our case, probably 2) AS/400? Besides (maybe) lower initial hardware cost, how is a Windows cluster more secure than an AS/400?
Your troll modding is non-deserved IMHO. Those are fair questions. Let me answer them
How exactly could one bet their career on a decision like this?
Well, this is a company I want to work for for the rest of my career. So as far as I am concerned, it is my career. A poor ERP decision can wreak havoc on a company. We simply cannot afford to make a mistake here. I can see various scenarios in which I would have to find another company to work for and I don't want to do that.
I suspect this is your goal, though - the wording of your question suggests you have an answer in mind and you want validation.
That's true. I've done a ton of research, but I don't have the experience with the iSeries or AS/400 that I know other /.ers have. Everything I've seen says the iSeries kicks the snot out of a Windows server. But since a co-worker told me everyone she's talked to says they'd never touch an AS/400, I need to find out if there's a compelling reason to stay away. I'm still looking for one. BTW, since the question was "iSeries vs. Windows", those who answer "UNIX!!!" need a course in reading comprehension. Either that or they just like to pimp their favorite OS whenever given the chance. It's a great platform (better than Windows IMHO), so it's hard to blame them too much.
However, if you have no AS/400 admins in house, but you have plenty of Windows Server gurus, well, then I think you would be better off with Windows.
Here's the deal. My boss knows RPG and the AS/400. I'm the Windows guru. He'll be retiring in a few years. (BTW, we're it as far as the IT team is concerned). I can learn the AS/400 stuff. My company will send me to school if need be. So why then should we drive the company in a Yugo just because it's easy to find people with a drivers license (MCSE). As every single aspect of our business (except e-mail) will depend upon the availability of the ERP system, I cannot see this as justification to not buy the tank when we can afford it. It seems to me that lack of AS/400 skills hardly matters when 1)Then can be learned and 2) They'll almost never be needed.
I just did a 6-page report for our ERP team on the topic of stability and security of the AS/400 vs. Windows Server 2003. With nearly 200 vulnerabilities , many of which were extremely critical and/or allowed remote 0wn3rsh1p for Windows (yes, I'm counting IE 6.x vulnerabilities because it's a shell to the OS) versus 2 almost non-issues with ZERO remote 0wn3rsh1p for OS/4.x, there's no comparison. Plus, there has never been an AS/400 virus or other malware AFIK. How much money do people spend every year on antivirus and antispyware for Windows? How many programs like Metasploit that allow any script kiddie full access to your Windows server are there for the AS/400? When was the last zero-day exloit for the AS/400? Again, tell me why I should recommend we run our entire operation on Windows over an iSeries when we can afford the iSeries? What would justify such an enormous gamble?
To answer your question, I would point out the mass of windows problems and ask someone to show anything that has gone wrong with (insert midrange / mainframe platform here) that has caused the same effect.
Already done. You'd have to be a fool to think that Windows can even compare to the iSeries. And I say this as a newcomer to the AS/400. It's like Mike Tyson in his prime--no one could even touch him. The only problem we ever had with our AS/400 was a couple of batteries in the UPS died and the end result was that it cut off all power to the unit. If I didn't have to change the backup tape every day, I would never have to touch it. We can afford to buy a new iSeries to replace it. Our Windows server has already seen several hours of downtime this year just for critical and other software updates. I'm still looking for a good reason to recommend we replace our AS/400 with a Windows server.
After taking a week-long course in pen-testing and seeing just how easy it is to compromise Windows boxes, and considering the ramifications of having our server broken into or getting infected, I am more security conscious than I ever have been in my life. Since the decision has been made to put all our eggs into one basket and we have sufficient money in the budget to buy pretty much whatever we want, why pick Windows over i5/OS? If /. readers can't come up with a convincing reason, it makes me strongly suspect that there really isn't one.
My co-worker told me everyone she's talked to about the AS/400 (iSeries) has told her there's no way they'd ever go with one. I can't find any good reason not to (maybe it's because I have 21 years of using MS-based systems under my belt). It's more mature, stable, and secure than Windows by an enormous margin. For instance, rounded down there's 0% risk of a viral infection. Since the new ERP system will mean all our eggs will be in one basket (we're consolidating different functions being hosted on 3 different server platforms), I want to know why going with Windows will be worth the risk when we have $500,000 to invest in the system. Since you're obviously an iSeries person, are there any negatives about them at all?
All things being (nearly) equal, platform is a huge consideration. If your entire operation depends on the availability of your ERP software, you cannot afford downtime for any reason. That's the thing. We are putting all our eggs into one basket. With aproximately 200 employees and $500,000 to spend on ERP software, why should we go with a platform that has a horrendous track record on security? Sure, if you were a mechanic, you could save $$$ by buying the cheapest tools sold by WalMart. Or you could pay more for Snap-On. Saving money up front often bites you hard in the butt down the road. I'm still looking for a convincing argument that it's better to run our entire operation on a platform with an enormous risk for downtime versus one that has virtually none.
I do want to know, are iSeries and Windows your only options?
Unfortunately, yes. About a year before I landed this job, our company started working with a consulting group whose purpose was to help us implement "lean" manufacturing. As a part of the process, it is quite clear our old "green screen" ERP software just won't cut it. Anyway, these guys only know Windows and that's all they recommend.
When I got into the picture just before we sent RFI's out, I got to ask our consultants a few questions. One of them was whether we were considering anything other than Windows-centric solutions. When I asked why not anything AS/400 based, they responded that the only ERP software for the AS/400 was tier-1 solutions like JD Edwards. My boss and I called BS, and found an ERP package for the iSeries that looks to be every bit as good or better than any of Microsoft's offerings (and cheaper too!). So it got included in our RFI's.
I guess what I would like to know then, is there any good reason not to go with an AS/400 based ERP system? I mean, according to everything I've seen in terms of stability and security, i5/OS makes even Linux look insecure and unstable. As this ERP system would consolidate several apps hosted on 3 different servers, downtime would mean a company-wide shutdown. I know you can cluster Windows, but what happens when you get a virus or worm in the network before the AV company updates the definitions? Can you clean it without any server downtime? If so, maybe Windows wouldn't be too bad. But then there's still the issue of 0wnership...
Absolutely! I'm interested and I'd bet my life others are as well. If I were you, I wouldn't base the amount of interest solely on replies to your post. After all, at this moment it's modded a "1" and therefore many /.ers will not see it. It's stuff like what you're offering that the community really needs.
I can't believe the most critical vulnerability inherent in IE has not been mentioned yet. What I am referring to is the fact that IE is a shell to the operating system
For the benefit of those who don't know what that means, opening up IE is effectively the equivalent of opening up a command prompt. Any command typed into IE will behave as if you typed it into a command prompt and will execute with whatever privileges you have. For most users, this will be Administrator. Another brilliant design choice.
Go ahead and type "c:\windows\system32\calc.exe" (or "c:\winnt\system32\calc.exe" depending on the name of your system directory) in IE and watch as Calc opens up. Try it with FF and you'll be prompted to save it--nothing more.
I don't know. You tell me. Which is the secure option and which is the security flaw so inexpressibly stupid it should be considered criminal negligence?
Now I know why I enjoyed your post so much. Tazwell, eh? I grew up in Washington County (John S. Battle class of '93). So I kind of have an idea where you're coming from. And you're on your way into med school? Good on ya!!!! I hope you graduate at the top of a class filled with yankees and NOVA's =D
On a side note, I had the following experience my freshman year of college (out of state, BTW). A guy living on my floor was from Faquier County, VA. He asked me how I did on some of the standardized tests (ACT, AP exams). At the time I graduated, I was only the 3rd person (and only male) in my high school's 30+ year history to score a 5 on the AP English Exam. Anyway, after I finished sharing my accomplishments with him, I could tell by the look on his face what he was thinking.
"What's the matter?" I asked him. "Do you find it hard to believe someone from Southwest Virginia could do so well?"
"Actually," he replied, "Yeah. I do."
Fortunately for him, my desire to yank his head out of his butt and slam it repeatedly against the wall was outweighed by my desire not to get expelled and go to jail.
To his credit, at least he was honest about being "elitist NOVA scum" ;)
I have a perspective most Slashdotters will never have, as I grew up in the county where Mr. Boucher's office is located. While he talks a great talk in favor of fair use rights, and thus makes all of us feel warm and fuzzy, you don't know the rest of the story. You don't know that the man with the silver tongue is only effective when it comes to doing just what it takes to get himself re-elected.
Virginia's "Fighting Ninth" district is composed of mainly tobacco farmers, coal miners, and blue collar workers. The public school systems there are for the most part, woefully inadequate. Every two years he strings along his constituants with ads of elderly people who endorse him because "When my Social Security claim was denied, I turned to Rick Boucher. He fought for my rights and got me my Social Security. He truly cares about all of us." Tobacco farmers proclaim what a great guy he is because he "fights" for them too.
Oddly enough, the local economy keeps getting worse and worse. People are losing their jobs, and there's nothing to keep the area's best and brightest students around when they get back from college. He votes the way he needs to to make his less-perceiving constituants think he cares about them by trying to preserve an economic base that is doomed to ultimately collapse, while doing nothing to move the region into the 21st century. I mean, heck, the area is at least 10 years behind the rest of the country in so many areas it's not funny. While trying to preserve tobacco farming and coal mining as the region's major economic base is unsustainable, it gets votes.
Oddly enough, most of the people in southwest VA are very religious, ultra-conservative Christians, who would be shocked at the way Mr. Boucher votes on the so-called "moral issues". But it's amazing what a person desperate not to lose his/her job in an area where finding another one is nearly impossible without any kind of skills or education will overlook if he/she foolishly thinks that voting for Mr. Boucher will mean 2 more years of employment. And when you can't read, or else don't read very well, it's far too easy to fall for the crafty lies of such a gifted speaker. Trust me, this man is the epitome of a slick politician. When you consider that (assuming others are correct) he voted for the DMCA, and given that he indicated that he has something the RIAA/MPAA want and they have something he wants, I'm willing to bet that all this talk is just a bargaining chip to get what he really wants--broadband for southwest VA. Most of his constituants probably don't even have computers, much less even $20/month to spend on broadband, but if he can get that for the voters, it will assure yet another term. Did anyone notice how he indicated that broadband is as essential to survival as electricity? (It's not) No, mark my words, this is all about deceiving the less-educated voter base into thinking he really cares about making their lives better, while ignoring the underlying causes of the region's economic woes. I am positive that his position will change as soon as it gets him what he really wants--2 more years in Washington. Just wait and see.
1) You said:
If Apple really works on shining up Wine (or buys out some other Wine based company - Crossover I believe?), then they can offer Windows compatibility with a certain number of apps, perhaps a solid list such as Photoshop, Office, etc (and grow the list as necessary).
Am I missing something here? I thought Photoshop was originally an Apple-only product, and the Windows version was a port. Also, MS provides a version of Office that runs natively on OS X. So why would I need Wine to run PS or MS Office on the Intel version of a Mac?
2) Why does anyone really care about games on their Windows box anymore? I mean, it seems to me that what it costs to buy one of the current or soon-to-be-released gaming colsoles gives you much more than the same amount of money will get you on the equivalent gear for your PC. Plus, it seems that there are more game titles available for consoles. And if you don't want to pay full price for a console-based game, there are bazillions of them available used at pawn shops and specialty stores.
Seriously, the only reason I can think of anynoe not chosing a better gaming experience on a console, and a better computer experience on a Mactel machine, is money. It's probably more difficult to pirate games for PlayStation than it is to pirate the Windows version. My prediction: In a few years, the whole issue of gaming on Windows will disappear as a reason to not go to Linux or OS X.
After all but completely ruining the Star Wars story by coming out with episodes I and II, Lucas blew the perfect opportinity to redeem himself with ROTS.
Here's how Anakin should have gone over to the dark side:
-----
(Palpatine and Anakin are conversing in the Chancellor's office.)
Palpatine: The dark side will make you powerful beyond your wildest dreams. Join me. Become my apprentice. Come over to the dark side.
Anakin: What must I do to become a sith lord?
(Doors open and Jar-Jar lopes in)
Jar-Jar: Hewo Annie! Meesa was tinkin dat...
(Cut to head shot of Anakin, obviously furious that Jar-Jar has interrupted the conversation at such a crucial moment)
Palpatine: (With great disgust) Release your hatred!
(Anakin grabs Jar-Jar with the force and slams him head-first into the ceiling. Simultaneously, he releases Jar-Jar and whips out his light saber, slicing the @#$%! Gungan into tiny bits before he hits the ground.)
Palpatine: (Barely audible over the wild cheers ocurring in theaters across the globe) Well-done, young Skywalker. Your journey to the dark side is now complete.
Not a surprise. When my oldest son was still a toddler, he didn't have a single toy car. One day we went to visit my parents. My youngest sister gave him a Barbie doll to play with.
So what did he do with it? He pushed it across the floor going "Vroom! Vroom!"
Socialization? I call BS! Those who think that the differences made by an entire chromosome are merely limited to determnining whether the person has a penis and testicles, or a vagina and breasts, and that everything else is due to socialization are delusional.
I realize it's not PC to say that gender differences are more than genatalia, but seriously. A hammer is not a screwdriver. Big whoop. Just because they're different, it doesn't mean that one is more important to have in a toolbox than another. Same with gender.
I think some people are forgetting that "equal" doesn't always mean "identical"--as in $100 in quarters is equal in value to a $100 bill. One is easier to carry around, the other can buy things the other can't, etc. Likewise, male is equal to female in value. How can something so simple be that hard to comprehend?
*SIGH*
Quick question. If I hear about a LAN party and tell you it will take place on April 19, but for whatever the reason, (whether I am being dishonest or simply misunderstood what I read or was told) it actually takes place on April 18. If you then tell all your friends there's a LAN party at X location on April 19, and they all show up and there isn't one, did you lie to them? Of course not. You simply repeated information you thought was accurate that really wasn't.
Now, if you're the President of the United States, there aren't enough hours in the day to personally research all the details on all the decisions in which you have to be involved. That's why the President has a cabinet. He picks advisors he trusts to give him accurate information upon which he can base his decisions. They, in turn, get their information from others, who get it from others, and so forth.
To assert that Bush lied is to assume he had absolute knowledge that his information was incorrect, and intended to deceive the world. Based on what I've seen and heard, there's not enough evidence to make such a case beyond any reasonable doubt. If there were, I would expect the Democrats in the House to push for a justly-deserved impeachment. If Bush really did lie, then why isn't there any push for impeachment? Because it's merely an allegation lacking in substantiating evidence. In all likelihood, all Bush did was repeat bad information, which is a far cry from deliberate deceit. So this juror votes "not guilty".
YES!!! Linux is finally ready for the desktop!