Then you'll have no problems rattling off 10 of them, much less 38.
Many of them have stateless persons in custody that they don't know what to do with.
We know what states these people are from, because we kidnapped them. So, again, how many countries keep dozens of innocent people in prison when the government in question has cleared them for release years ago.
Don't be naive; most big nations have almost certainly committed political and military assassinations of citizens and others. The fact that they do it covertly doesn't make it any better.
Then you'll almost certainly have no problem rattling off a bunch of examples. When was the last time Canada assassinated one of their citizens? How about New Zealand? Poland?
Actually that is not true. The vast majority of Christians are willing to condemn the Westboro Baptist Church without qualification. The number of Muslims willing to give an unqualified condemnation of Muslim extremist terrorists is a much smaller percentage.
You sure the number of Christians who have condemned George W. Obama on the Global War Of Terror exceeds the number of Muslims who have condemned terror attacks? Cuz it's not the like the latter have anything on the former when it comes to body count.
I own a passport and have traveled to 38 countries on 5 continents. I can't think of any place that offers more freedom than the US. Is our government more invasive than in the past? Yes. Should we change that? Absolutely. Is there someplace with both the same level of security and a less invasive government? No. I am hard pressed to even identify a less invasive government.
How many of those countries have an NDAA and allow their citizens to be militarily imprisoned without a trial?
How many of those countries have a "constitution free" zone that covers most of their population?
How many of those countries have continue to hold innocent prisoners cleared for release a la Gitmo?
How many of those countries have openly assassinated one of their citizens for engaging in protected speech?
You're either snarking the shit out of us, have limited to your travels to places like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, or have a terminal case of American Exceptionalism.
You also have not had to compete with people able to work anytime, begging for hours, all in a climate of 20%+ youth unemployment.
Actually, yes, I have. It turns out being reliable beats having a more flexible schedule.
Not when they have 6 other people - who already have degrees and experience and are begging for work so they don't lose their house - beating down the door for the same job. Obushinomics FTW.
Most Apple people don't bother to evaluate alternatives, they simply stick to Apple. Which is also loyalty, it just happens to come form blindly following.
Or they're just buying whatever it is that does what they want without bitching about other people buying what they want. Shocking concept, I know, but you could give it a try sometime. See also: growing up.
Want to go to a good law school? Cool. Make sure your grades are good enough to get at least some scholarships
...which don't come close to paying for the full cost of an education, unless you are incredibly lucky.
or defer until you serve 4 in the military
Like the AC said: what if you don't want to sent overseas to kill brown people defending their villages? What if you don't want to get shot at yourself?
MAYBE, just MAYBE you don't get to be a lawyer.
So top careers are limited to the wealthy, setting up a neat little caste system. Your dad was a surgeon and made millions over his career so yeah, you can go to medical school. Your dad was a carpenter and had to save every penny for retirement because his knees were shot before he was 50...the best you can be is a carpenter. When having a bachelors degree is the new high school diploma when applying for jobs, having a decent secondary education is a requirement for having a decent job. Don't bother with the anecdote of how Random Dude became an assistant bank manager with only a GED when we're talking about the population at large in a highly depressed economy.
So like I asked the first time: is this a bug, or a feature for you?
A typical liberal response, always making excuses and tolerating laziness in both themselves and others instead of taking charge of their own lives, working hard and creating their own success. Those who can do and those who won't complain. Which one are you?
Like I said, social darwinist bullshit. You need to equalize education and opportunity before you start bleating and blathering about how it's all individual merit. Joe Blow doesn't have hot women show up at his hotel room offering him steamy sex because his dad is an assistant manager at a Burger King and the women's employers are looking to score some coupons.
you'd have found plenty of cases of me defending Snowden and his choice to leave the country, as well as contrasting Snowden's actions with the actions undertaken by Manning, not to mention providing the specific criteria by which I say that he acted unethically, rather than just pulling random reasons out of my ass to fit the occasion.
That's the definition of concern trolling: you claim to support someone's cause in general, but they did it in the wrong waaaaay. It's the same tactic whether it's used to dismiss gay rights protestors chaining themselves to the White House fence or dismissing Bradley Manning. And like I said, if you didn't find this excuse that doesn't stand up to scrutiny, you'd find another.
First, this wouldn't have happened in the first place if we weren't warmongering jackasses who invade and bomb countries based on lies and selective standards.
You're arguing that one wrong turn deserves another. That's hardly the morale high ground to be starting your attack on my comment from.
Psst....claiming that revealing war crimes is a "wrong" just like the war crimes themselves isn't going to help your protestations that you aren't a right wing authoritarian. And again, this "leaking indiscriminately" storyline holds no water when he gave the documents to a responsible media organization that asked the USG for help in redacting the documents before publication multiple times but were ignored.
Third, he tried taking his evidence to "responsible" outfits like the NYTimes and the WaPo, and was ignored.
I'm not sure what evidence you're talking about, nor am I aware of any attempt by him to contact those outlets for any reason. I'd love a link to some additional information.
In 2009, Kiriakou took the position of senior investigator on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee under John Kerry. His job was to investigate waste, fraud, abuse and illegality and he turned his attention to the 2001 Dasht-i-Leili massacre, in which an American-backed warlord had been responsible for the deaths of hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of Taliban soldiers when he ordered them to be crammed into metal containers and then loaded onto trucks bound for a prison in Shibarghan, Afghanistan.
A source had told Kiriakou that Americans wearing T-shirts and blue jeans oversaw the box-up of the prisoners.
"I wanted to know,â Kiriakou said, "were these guys CIA officers? If they weren't, who were they? Were they Defense Department? Were they contractors? Who were these guys? And why didnâ(TM)t they stop this from happening?...
Six weeks later, Kiriakou got a phone call from John Kerry asking if he was investigating the CIA.
"I said, 'Yes, I am.' [He said,] 'I want you to stop right now.' I said 'but we've got a story here. This is a serious situation.' 'I want you to stop right now,'" Kerry repeated. "So I stopped."
that is completely false. Frankly, it's getting old and has been factual shot down 1000 times.
Where, on Planet Obamabot, otherwise known as DailyKos?
Obama has:
Been far more secretive than Bush. Droned far more brown people to death than Bush. Sent 3x as many troops to Afghanistan as Bush. Prosecuted not just more whisteblowers than Bush, but all POTUS's combined x2. Been the first to openly assassinate an American for protected speech, unlike Bush. Signed into law military detention of American citizens, unlike Bush. Given the military free reign to impose martial law when it deems neccessary, unlike Bush.
And of course, Obama's Vice President was threatening to impeach in 2007 if Bush did to Iran what Obama did to Libya: start a war without Congressional authorization.
Or the guy who thought make-work would fix the economy.
Come again? In a highly depressed economy, the only entity that can jump-start demand on a national scale is the government. And even if you're paying out poverty wages, hiring millions of people to dig ditches keeps them from starving, and starts putting money back into the economy. What will do that sort of stuff?
But releasing tens of thousands of diplomatic cables without reviewing them, which ended up merely revealing embarrassing-but-not-criminal activity on the part of the US government, was something else entirely.
Classic concern trolling. "I support what this guy did, but he did it in the wrong waaaay". If you weren't using the excuse that Manning was leaking "indiscriminately", you would have found another. Snowden chose his documents carefully, but he did it in the wrong waaaay because he fled the country. Same shit, different pile.
And there are all kinds of problems with your specific excuse. First, this wouldn't have happened in the first place if we weren't warmongering jackasses who invade and bomb countries based on lies and selective standards. Second, Manning tried bringing his initial fears to his superiors and was rebuffed. Third, he tried taking his evidence to "responsible" outfits like the NYTimes and the WaPo, and was ignored. Fourth, "following proper channels" isn't meant to protect whistleblowers, but to cover up crimes. See: the government employees who "did the right thing" but were prosecuted anyway, like Kiriakou.
Finally, what really marks you guys as the authoritarian hacks you are, is the fact that you aren't demanding that a long line of Bush and Obama Administration officials be in the court docket far in front of Manning or Snowden. Manning has to go to jail because he broke the laaaaw, but you guys don't give a shit about all the lawbreaking unveiled by Manning. Cuz you run around typing crap like this with a straight face:
For that part of the leak, there is no legal nor moral high ground on which he can stand
The author obviously has his pet topic, which is that it's not anyone's fault that anyone is fat. Sorry, but I've lived around too many fat people. They eat. They eat a lot. Honestly the author goes on far too long about "it's not their fault" and doesn't spend too much time discussing "why".
Because 40 years of ag policies making carbs and starches the cheapest forms of foods have nothing to do with it. It costs more to eat a salad for a meal than it does to eat a Big Mac, and for anyone of limited means, that shit matters.
It's all about diet unless you have the training regimen of an Olympic athlete. For most people it's going to be easier to cut out pop and pizza from their diet than exercise 8 hours a day, five or six days out of the week.
But to somehow think that just releasing all of this information which was basically stolen from secured locations is a good thing is ludicrous.
Of course the real reason you're saying this is because the more we know, the more we know the entire military-surviellance state is based on unjustifiable power grabs for the sake of grabbing power.
Did you read the rest of the sentence you quoted? here let me help you:
Yeah, I did. Let me help you: it changes nothing.
posted annual 2014 tuition of $3333 x 4 years that is only 13,333.
There. See, shuz is saying that the costs are (still?) cheap.
And he's clearly ignoring or forgetting that's just half the cost of going to school. There are books and fees, so add on another $1500 a semester, and there's the cost of supporting yourself for four or five years. You aren't going to find a decent job - one that will support yourself while paying for some of the tuition - because all those decent jobs are going to be already taken by people who have already graduated and have work experience. Because the job market today sucks.
posted annual 2014 tuition of $3333 x> 4 years that is only 13,333.
And he's clearly leaving out books and fees, which will conservatively add another $1500 a semester, as well as the cost of supporting yourself in school. It's still $20,000 to $30,000 of undischarable debt upon graduation, and from a "cheap" school.
I'm sorry, but that's incredibly doable and can be paid 100% for working a decent summer job/internship, or part time year round.
Then I'm sorry, but your as far from reality and the economy as the parent poster. The decent jobs - i.e. ones that can actually support yourself while paying some of the cost of going to school - are all going to be taken by people who have already graduated and thus have experience and more flexible schedules.
That's a manageable student loan of 50k (or one year's entry level graduate salary in many industries).
There are 18,000 parking lot attendants in the U.S. with college degrees. There are 5,000 janitors in the U.S. with PhDs. In all, some 17 million college-educated Americans have jobs that don't require their level of education.
How is this insightful? The GP clearly stated that the current(2014) tuition at his college is $3333, and so it is still affordable.
"Affordable" before or after you add another $1500 a semester for books and fees? And that's before you even to the cost of supporting yourself while in school. Even at this "cheap" school you're going to graduate with $20,000 to $30,000 in undischargable debt, and enter a shitty job market with your shitty credit score.
This is always something that has really bugged me. Why exactly is it someone's right to borrow money and then not pay it back?
Because you're a sociopathic fascist, that's why. Otherwise you'd be asking why predatory lenders can loan money to people they know damn well will be unable to pay, and then be able to hassle the debtor for life. You'd be asking why loans, which are investments for banks, should have zero percent risk for the lender and 100% for the borrower.
Housing bubble? Fannie, Freddie, Ginnie Mae, Home Mortgage Interest Deductions, capital gains exclusion, etc.
Which is bullshit, bullshit, and bullshit, respectively. That Fannie and Freddie had anything to do with the bubble has been debunked so many times it's not even funny. The vast majority of subprime loans came from predatory lenders, not Fannie or Freddie. Loans that were then split up into securities, by banks, ballooning a few hundred billion in property into an asset bubble measured in the trillions.
Didn't your parents ever teach you that nothing in life is free. The reason it's "free" is because the government is stealing money from every citizen to pay the universities to stay open. Teachers don't work for nothing, janitors that clean the classrooms don't work for free, etc. etc. Wake up.
Didn't you parents teach you there is free to use? You know, like public sidewalks are free to use, public libraries are free to use, and, in civilized countries, college and healthcare are free to use.
Slashdot Mirror
Then you'll have no problems rattling off 10 of them, much less 38.
We know what states these people are from, because we kidnapped them. So, again, how many countries keep dozens of innocent people in prison when the government in question has cleared them for release years ago.
Then you'll almost certainly have no problem rattling off a bunch of examples. When was the last time Canada assassinated one of their citizens? How about New Zealand? Poland?
You sure the number of Christians who have condemned George W. Obama on the Global War Of Terror exceeds the number of Muslims who have condemned terror attacks? Cuz it's not the like the latter have anything on the former when it comes to body count.
How many of those countries have an NDAA and allow their citizens to be militarily imprisoned without a trial?
How many of those countries have a "constitution free" zone that covers most of their population?
How many of those countries have continue to hold innocent prisoners cleared for release a la Gitmo?
How many of those countries have openly assassinated one of their citizens for engaging in protected speech?
You're either snarking the shit out of us, have limited to your travels to places like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, or have a terminal case of American Exceptionalism.
Not when they have 6 other people - who already have degrees and experience and are begging for work so they don't lose their house - beating down the door for the same job. Obushinomics FTW.
Or they're just buying whatever it is that does what they want without bitching about other people buying what they want. Shocking concept, I know, but you could give it a try sometime. See also: growing up.
Like the AC said: what if you don't want to sent overseas to kill brown people defending their villages? What if you don't want to get shot at yourself?
So top careers are limited to the wealthy, setting up a neat little caste system. Your dad was a surgeon and made millions over his career so yeah, you can go to medical school. Your dad was a carpenter and had to save every penny for retirement because his knees were shot before he was 50...the best you can be is a carpenter. When having a bachelors degree is the new high school diploma when applying for jobs, having a decent secondary education is a requirement for having a decent job. Don't bother with the anecdote of how Random Dude became an assistant bank manager with only a GED when we're talking about the population at large in a highly depressed economy.
So like I asked the first time: is this a bug, or a feature for you?
Like I said, social darwinist bullshit. You need to equalize education and opportunity before you start bleating and blathering about how it's all individual merit. Joe Blow doesn't have hot women show up at his hotel room offering him steamy sex because his dad is an assistant manager at a Burger King and the women's employers are looking to score some coupons.
By just about any measure you'd care to choose.
That's the definition of concern trolling: you claim to support someone's cause in general, but they did it in the wrong waaaaay. It's the same tactic whether it's used to dismiss gay rights protestors chaining themselves to the White House fence or dismissing Bradley Manning. And like I said, if you didn't find this excuse that doesn't stand up to scrutiny, you'd find another.
Psst....claiming that revealing war crimes is a "wrong" just like the war crimes themselves isn't going to help your protestations that you aren't a right wing authoritarian. And again, this "leaking indiscriminately" storyline holds no water when he gave the documents to a responsible media organization that asked the USG for help in redacting the documents before publication multiple times but were ignored.
I thought you were an authority on this? Bradley Manning Tried Going To NY Times, Washington Post, Politico Before Turning To WikiLeaks
Oh, maybe since they tend to get shut down and prosecuted. John Kiriakou: "Everyone is corrupt, I've come to learn"
Former CIA Officer & Whistleblower
Repeating a Big Lie doesn't make it true. It just makes you a bigger liar.
Where, on Planet Obamabot, otherwise known as DailyKos?
Obama has:
Been far more secretive than Bush.
Droned far more brown people to death than Bush.
Sent 3x as many troops to Afghanistan as Bush.
Prosecuted not just more whisteblowers than Bush, but all POTUS's combined x2.
Been the first to openly assassinate an American for protected speech, unlike Bush.
Signed into law military detention of American citizens, unlike Bush.
Given the military free reign to impose martial law when it deems neccessary, unlike Bush.
And of course, Obama's Vice President was threatening to impeach in 2007 if Bush did to Iran what Obama did to Libya: start a war without Congressional authorization.
Come again? In a highly depressed economy, the only entity that can jump-start demand on a national scale is the government. And even if you're paying out poverty wages, hiring millions of people to dig ditches keeps them from starving, and starts putting money back into the economy. What will do that sort of stuff?
Thinks like...make-work programs....
Classic concern trolling. "I support what this guy did, but he did it in the wrong waaaay". If you weren't using the excuse that Manning was leaking "indiscriminately", you would have found another. Snowden chose his documents carefully, but he did it in the wrong waaaay because he fled the country. Same shit, different pile.
And there are all kinds of problems with your specific excuse. First, this wouldn't have happened in the first place if we weren't warmongering jackasses who invade and bomb countries based on lies and selective standards. Second, Manning tried bringing his initial fears to his superiors and was rebuffed. Third, he tried taking his evidence to "responsible" outfits like the NYTimes and the WaPo, and was ignored. Fourth, "following proper channels" isn't meant to protect whistleblowers, but to cover up crimes. See: the government employees who "did the right thing" but were prosecuted anyway, like Kiriakou.
Finally, what really marks you guys as the authoritarian hacks you are, is the fact that you aren't demanding that a long line of Bush and Obama Administration officials be in the court docket far in front of Manning or Snowden. Manning has to go to jail because he broke the laaaaw, but you guys don't give a shit about all the lawbreaking unveiled by Manning. Cuz you run around typing crap like this with a straight face:
Projection. Not a member of a police or military force? Then you're a civilian.
Because 40 years of ag policies making carbs and starches the cheapest forms of foods have nothing to do with it. It costs more to eat a salad for a meal than it does to eat a Big Mac, and for anyone of limited means, that shit matters.
It's all about diet unless you have the training regimen of an Olympic athlete. For most people it's going to be easier to cut out pop and pizza from their diet than exercise 8 hours a day, five or six days out of the week.
Of course the real reason you're saying this is because the more we know, the more we know the entire military-surviellance state is based on unjustifiable power grabs for the sake of grabbing power.
Yeah, I did. Let me help you: it changes nothing.
And he's clearly ignoring or forgetting that's just half the cost of going to school. There are books and fees, so add on another $1500 a semester, and there's the cost of supporting yourself for four or five years. You aren't going to find a decent job - one that will support yourself while paying for some of the tuition - because all those decent jobs are going to be already taken by people who have already graduated and have work experience. Because the job market today sucks.
And he's clearly leaving out books and fees, which will conservatively add another $1500 a semester, as well as the cost of supporting yourself in school. It's still $20,000 to $30,000 of undischarable debt upon graduation, and from a "cheap" school.
Then I'm sorry, but your as far from reality and the economy as the parent poster. The decent jobs - i.e. ones that can actually support yourself while paying some of the cost of going to school - are all going to be taken by people who have already graduated and thus have experience and more flexible schedules.
Like I said, far from reality.
"Affordable" before or after you add another $1500 a semester for books and fees? And that's before you even to the cost of supporting yourself while in school. Even at this "cheap" school you're going to graduate with $20,000 to $30,000 in undischargable debt, and enter a shitty job market with your shitty credit score.
You misspelled "Finland".
American Exceptionalism usually is.
Because you're a sociopathic fascist, that's why. Otherwise you'd be asking why predatory lenders can loan money to people they know damn well will be unable to pay, and then be able to hassle the debtor for life. You'd be asking why loans, which are investments for banks, should have zero percent risk for the lender and 100% for the borrower.
Which is bullshit, bullshit, and bullshit, respectively. That Fannie and Freddie had anything to do with the bubble has been debunked so many times it's not even funny. The vast majority of subprime loans came from predatory lenders, not Fannie or Freddie. Loans that were then split up into securities, by banks, ballooning a few hundred billion in property into an asset bubble measured in the trillions.
No, that's not what he meant, but you knew that already. It means free to use, not free as in it-fell-from-the-sky.
Didn't you parents teach you there is free to use? You know, like public sidewalks are free to use, public libraries are free to use, and, in civilized countries, college and healthcare are free to use.