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What's Causing the Rise In Obesity? Everything.

Mr_Blank writes "We all know — because we are being constantly reminded — that we are getting fat. Americans are at the forefront of the trend, but it is a transnational one. Apparently, it is also trans-species: Over the past 20 years, as the American people were getting fatter, so were America's laboratory macaques, chimpanzees, vervet monkeys and mice, as well as domestic dogs, domestic cats, and domestic and feral rats from both rural and urban areas. Researchers examined records on those eight species and found that average weight for every one had increased. The marmosets gained an average of 9% per decade. Lab mice gained about 11% per decade. Chimps are doing especially badly: their average body weight had risen 35% per decade. What is causing the obesity era? Everything."

926 comments

  1. FP by Hognoxious · · Score: 0, Troll

    Clearly it's terrusts, comnusts and peeders.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:FP by ciderbrew · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually obesity is the defence against the peeders. No one wants the ugly fat child. Keep Em fat and safe people!

    2. Re:FP by lightknight · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I hypothesize it's a link between the focus on a decrease in recess (unordered recreational time) and an increase in environmental stress (in other words, and contrary to official accounts, we might want to shorten the work day, but increase the efficiency of the work during that shorter period). Too much stress, not enough proper outlets (because they all cost too much now...and people aren't making enough to make use of them), results in a catastrophic / cascade failure scenario.

      If we have a large die-off in the future, in a short period of time, then perhaps, if these comments survive, we will have an idea where to look next time.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    3. Re:FP by MRe_nl · · Score: 2

      Clearly Saint John got it wrong and the four horsemen of the apocalypse are Conquest, War, Obesity and Death.

      --
      "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
    4. Re:FP by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Funny

      No one wants the ugly fat child.

      What about with fava beans and a nice chianti?

    5. Re:FP by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      And mice feel the same way?

    6. Re:FP by TWiTfan · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I'm blaming global warming. Everyone seems to blame it for everything else, may as well add this to the list.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    7. Re:FP by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      Insisting that people work more efficiently is one of the most effective ways of increasing their stress level.

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    8. Re:FP by udippel · · Score: 1

      It's good to see that you never have RTFA. Though this is not expected in here.
      However, reading the summary before commenting would be recommended. I wonder were /. were going, if the comments were solely based on the very title. Wait, even the title itself - if read in its entity - does not necessarily warrant the conclusion that all grounds for obesity are found in what you made out.

    9. Re:FP by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Actually obesity is the defence against the peeders. No one wants the ugly fat child. Keep Em fat and safe people!

      I find your lack of faith in the powers of perversiom.... troubling.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    10. Re:FP by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      No, you're thinking of census taker foie gras.

    11. Re:FP by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Damn pressure on researchers, publish or perish is finally getting to the lab rats.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:FP by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Not so sure about that but maybe Thomas Aquinas may have had a point when he listed gluttony and sloth as DEADLY sins.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    13. Re:FP by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      How does that account for other animals increase in obesity? I mean a lab rat stress doesn't really increase or decrease if they are testing the same stuff. They are still stuck in the cage like they were 100 years ago.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    14. Re:FP by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      Obesity is the new famine....

      --
      Will
    15. Re:FP by wooferhound · · Score: 1

      we might want to shorten the work day, but increase the efficiency of the work during that shorter period). Too much stress, not enough proper outlets , results in a catastrophic / cascade failure scenario.

      That looks like it's going to happen here in the USA because Obamacare is redefining the workweek as 30 hours instead of the current 40 hours.

      --
      We are Dead Stars looking back Up at the Sky
    16. Re: FP by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Thats an interesting idea. Who or what should i contact to organize it for the animals mentioned?

      The problem will more likely be in the food sources. High fructose corn syrup seems to be part of it.

    17. Re:FP by ciderbrew · · Score: 2

      You've destroyed my point and included a citation. You are a power /. user.

    18. Re:FP by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      I was unaware that feral rats had structured time

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    19. Re: FP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I blame stretch clothing (sweats, yoga pants, elastic waist shorts and tshirts) and automatically adjusting seat belts. We are not aware of the weight gain. "Whaddya mean I'm getting fat - my track suit from 10 years ago still fits!"

  2. Sugar by EEPROMS · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Very simply food manufacturers removed the fat in the 70's and replaced it with huge amounts of sugar. The problem with sugar is the brain doesn't see it as nutrition thus it doesn't suppress your appetite when you eat sugar filled foods.

    1. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem with sugar is the brain doesn't see it as nutrition thus it doesn't suppress your appetite when you eat sugar filled foods.

      Are you sure about that? Empirical evidence does seem to point that candies and other sweets suppress appetite very well.

    2. Re:Sugar by EEPROMS · · Score: 5, Informative

      to back up my above statement there is a good short scientific article regarding sugar that can be found here

    3. Re:Sugar by Thanshin · · Score: 5, Funny

      Very simply food manufacturers removed the fat in the 70's and replaced it with huge amounts of sugar. The problem with sugar is the brain doesn't see it as nutrition thus it doesn't suppress your appetite when you eat sugar filled foods.

      And, as we all know, marmosets are among the greatest consumers of manufactured foods.

    4. Re:Sugar by somersault · · Score: 5, Informative

      Short term, perhaps. But then a few hours later, you crash and want more.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    5. Re:Sugar by MMC+Monster · · Score: 3, Funny

      You must be outside the U.S.

      In the U.S. we've been using High Fructose Corn Syrup as our sweetener for a couple decades now. Why import something natural when you can synthesize something much worse locally?

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      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    6. Re:Sugar by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >And, as we all know, marmosets are among the greatest consumers of manufactured foods.

      These are laboratory marmosets which are, if anything, fed MORE on manufactured foods than even pet marmosets (since nobody gives a lab animal treats).
      These are all animals that eat foods made in large scale commercial operations and poured out of a tin or cardboard box.

      There is NO evidence of an obesity rise in WILD stocks of ANY of these animals.
      What do humans and lab animals have in common ? Diets filled with processed and manufactured foods.

      Now I am not saying that this is the cause or even that the GP is right- I am saying your reason for claiming he is wrong is outright idiotic.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    7. Re:Sugar by ameen.ross · · Score: 1

      AFAIK HFCS is just as bad a sucrose, as both are digested into their glucose and fructose components. HFCS is just a bit sweeter in taste.

      (acronyms, wee!)

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
    8. Re:Sugar by mrclisdue · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ....and, Cuba has lots of sugar. But the land of the free is still mad at Cuba for actions 50+ years ago, so the country remains embargoed and impoverished. Russia, China, Vietnam? They're all good buddies now, lots of forgiveness to go around. Cuba? Fuckem.

    9. Re:Sugar by benlwilson · · Score: 0

      Exactly.

      If the body is supplied with all the carbs it could ever want then it doesn't need to burn fat. After many many years of this (depending on the person) the bodies ability to burn fat starts to suffer (Basically the body gets lazy and stops burning fat as well as it should). Burning fat is required to keep your body weight correct so with that system not working properly the body ends up storing more fat than it's burning.
      Result = People get fat
      Solution = Eat less carbs and eat more good fats

      Also, what most people consider begin "Hungry" is just a sugar craving, hunger is a slight pain in the stomach area and not.. "mmm.... want food"

    10. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Perhaps you should try reading TFA.

    11. Re:Sugar by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Sugar doesn't make you fat. Marriage makes you fat. Just compare the waistlines of your single and married friends to see what I mean.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    12. Re:Sugar by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No. You taste them, but that's different. Candies contain so much sugar (compared to the food we would eat in nature) that our bodies do not trust their own correction mechanisms anymore. This is called insulin resistance. This suppresses your feeling of having eaten enough, so you stay hungry. This is why you can eat the bag of candies completely empty in one go, even if (no, because) it contains more energy than you will need the entire day.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    13. Re:Sugar by Longjmp · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sugar doesn't make you fat. Marriage makes you fat. [...]

      What's the difference between a bachelor and a married man?

      The bachelor comes home, looks into the fridge, finds nothing interesting, and goes to bed.
      The husband comes home, looks in the bedroom...

      --
      There are fewer illiterates than people who can't read.
    14. Re:Sugar by Mike+Frett · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Depends who you are and what your metabolism is. My body is a Sugar factory, yet I'm considered underweight. Irrelevant to your comment and relevant to the article: you guys miss one thing, the Thyroid.

      People with Thyroid issues usually have either weight gain or weight loss. And if your Thyroid has been removed, controlling your weight gain is damn near impossible. Since nobody outside of Thyroid problems understands that, it's easy to rationalize your hate and tell people to exercise and stop eating so much. It's not uncommon to gain 100 pounds in one week after a complete removal.

      Let's face the facts, we have lots of Radiation in various forms around us now. I have no doubt about it's contributing factor to Metabolism. I'm missing half my Thyroid due to a nodule that grew and decided to take over. Thankfully for me, it wasn't Cancer and even thought I was suppose to gain about 10 pounds; I actually lost 10 -- the Doctors were stumped on that one since it went against their data.

      ProTip: Don't let a General Surgeon remove your Thyroid, I ended up with a massive hematoma and damaged Parathyroids. Do yourself a favor and seek attention from a ENT. And make sure you're getting enough Iodine in your diets.

      Disclaimer: These are NOT my opinions but the opinions of Doctors I've seen over many years of Thyroid issues that are ongoing.

    15. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Diets filled with processed and manufactured foods.

      Pointless statement.

      There is absolutely nothing that says that processed or manufactured food should be any different form other food. Even if the food is entirely synthetic doesn't mean that it is in any way less healthy than non-synthetic food.
      There could be something wrong with the processed food that obese people eat but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible to create processed / manufactured food that is healthier.

      General fear of processed/manufactured/GMO/whatever isn't helpful and doesn't lead to a correct decisions. Instead you should point out the specifics on why current food is bad.
      It's not like switching to a diet of organic natural sugarcanes is going to be healthier.

    16. Re:Sugar by dwarfsoft · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I watched this lecture recently about Fructose (and high fructose corn syrup). https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dBnniua6-oM

      It was quite long (1.5 hours) but very informative in how bad HFCS is to us, and why low fat has caused this.

      --
      Cheers, Chris
    17. Re:Sugar by jythie · · Score: 1

      Though what is relevant is the trends in processing over the last few decades. So it is not 'because it is processed' and more 'because how things are generally processed today'... thus it is kinda a shorthand.

    18. Re:Sugar by somersault · · Score: 2

      This is probably the best comment I've read here. I've successfully lost weight by controlling my carb intake, and so have some of my friends. But another friend just didn't lose any weight at all until I gave her some iodine supplements to help her thyroid. Her metabolism sped up (as evidenced by her hair growing much faster), and she started to lose weight.

      Sucralose contains chlorine, which can block iodine reception in your thyroid. So at least one artificial sweetener is bad to ingest if you want to lose weight - especially if you aren't getting enough iodine in your diet.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    19. Re:Sugar by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      Very simply food manufacturers removed the fat in the 70's and replaced it with huge amounts of sugar. The problem with sugar is the brain doesn't see it as nutrition thus it doesn't suppress your appetite when you eat sugar filled foods.

      How would that explain the weight changes in the animals mentioned?

    20. Re:Sugar by Salgak1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The question is, WHICH processes are to blame? Obviously, the dropping of fat levels and the rise of HFCS look to be LIKELY causes, but it would be nice to see if this is confirmed by double-blind testing.

      Notionally, take 10,000 rodents, and a basic food stock. Process some of the food for low-fat only, some for HFCS-only, and some for both. And, of course, the unprocessed as control. Other variables to explore would be physical portion size (based on 100% need and the raw food stock), caloric size (again, baselined to the control), and unlimited portions, for each food type. And run for a few generations. That should provide a decent statistical universe for drawing conclusions.

      Rinse and repeat for other suspect methods/additives. We can't make rational decisions without good data. . .

    21. Re:Sugar by Thanshin · · Score: 2

      "Marmosets are usually fed a basic commercial ration and provided with a variety of supplements such as fruit, vegetables, nuts, eggs, jelly, cheese, cat chow and yoghurt." - The common marmoset

      From which of those do you suggest fat was removed in the 70 and "replaced with huge amounts of sugar"?

    22. Re:Sugar by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Diets filled with processed and manufactured foods.

      Pointless statement.

      There is absolutely nothing that says that processed or manufactured food should be any different form other food.

      That sounds like the defense the tobacco industry used for decades.

      Even if the food is entirely synthetic doesn't mean that it is in any way less healthy than non-synthetic food. There could be something wrong with the processed food that obese people eat but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible to create processed / manufactured food that is healthier.

      You're right. It doesn't have to be. Unfortunately, it's not like there is an incentive for these manufactures to do this. But there are considerable profits to be made in making the food as cheaply as possible. That's the problem.

    23. Re:Sugar by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      Sucralose contains chlorine, which can block iodine reception in your thyroid. So at least one artificial sweetener is bad to ingest if you want to lose weight - especially if you aren't getting enough iodine in your diet.

      What chlorine containing compound is sucralose broken down into that can block iodine uptake? I can only think of perchlorate that does that, and I fail to see how sucralose should be broken down into that. So, is is perchlorate? If yes, how is that done? If no, then what?

    24. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 4, Informative

      HFCS is bad for you, but there's nothing special about it vis-a-vis cane sugar. Or agave nectar, or honey, for that matter.

    25. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We already have the data. All you have to do is ask the humans in question

    26. Re:Sugar by king+neckbeard · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Wikipedia says there are currently no GMO potatoes marketed for human consumption, so [citation needed] on all of that.

      --
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    27. Re:Sugar by dywolf · · Score: 1

      so the dog and cat food is filled with sugar huh?

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    28. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Processed and manufactured have nothing to do with GMO, and I have no problem with GMOs because, well, everything we eat today is a GMO compared to its wild ancestors. However, processed and manufactured foods are different from natural ones in very real ways: for starters, they contain a lot more sugar and starch. This isn't a nefarious plot, it's just chemistry. Sugar is cheap, it undergoes Maillard reactions (so it browns nicely), and it has osmotic effects that allow it to retard the growth of bacteria, so shelf life goes up. Starch is pretty similar - look at the shelf life of crackers. Some people handle sugar very easily, but quite a lot don't. I think your throwaway line at the end about sugarcanes indicates that you know this.

    29. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Basic commercial ration, cheese, cat chow, and yogurt. Go to a non-hippie grocery store and try to find full-fat yogurt that has not been sweetened.

    30. Re:Sugar by smpoole7 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > AFAIK HFCS is just as bad a sucrose

      The makers of HFCS say that it's the "same as sugar" (i.e., table sugar, i.e., sucrose), but that's not strictly accurate. It really should be compared to *invert* sugar, in which the glucose and fructose molecules have been separated. Bakers have been using that for centuries: take sucrose and heat it with a mild acidic solution (such as lemon juice), and there you go.

      The problem is it's hard to know whom to believe about HFCS. My wife and I have essentially cut out added sugar. We don't even have sugar in our house. And yet, we still both struggle to keep our A1C under 6-7. In our case, walking and mild exercise have made the biggest difference. (Ah, the joys of getting older.) :)

      Now for the fine print: "we don't have sugar in our house ..." yeah, I know. Actually, we do. Someone did a comparison between cereals, cookies and breads from a couple of decades ago, and the manufacturers are adding considerably more sugar now, because that's what consumers want.

      As for lab animals becoming fatter, I think that's simple: they're being fed processed foods as well. Think about it: do you throw your cat a slab of meat every evening, or do you open a can or pour some dry food? The latter are LOADED with added carbohydrates. Loaded. Cats are CARNIVORES.

      My biggest complaint about HFCS isn't the syrup, per se, it's that Monsanto and ADM have ruined my corn. They've modified the corn to be sweeter, so that they can get more HFCS and ethanol from it. I used to love corn on the cob, but given that Sandy and I have tried to stop eating so much sugar, it's sickeningly sweet to us now. We buy locally-grown, unmodified corn whenever possible. Rarely from a supermarket.

      --
      Cogito, igitur comedam pizza.
    31. Re:Sugar by evilviper · · Score: 1

      There is NO evidence of an obesity rise in WILD stocks of ANY of these animals.

      Except you don't know that at all.

      Scarcity of food and natural selection would keep wild animals at a healthy weight, even if they are consuming something that makes their bodies prone to produce more fat. ie. Either they're hungry and stay skinny, or a few get fat and get eaten, and we don't even notice.

      What do humans and lab animals have in common ? Diets filled with processed and manufactured foods.

      Ugg. "Processed and manufacturered" are too damn vague to be useful in any way. WHAT part of the processing and manufacturing is causing this problem? And how do you know it's the problem, and not modern plastic containers, or pesticides used on crops, or any of a million other things that have changed that might be the root cause of our current epidemic?

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    32. Re:Sugar by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      I would have thought that HFCS is far worse than sucrose as it's mainly fructose which is processed by the liver rather than the stomach. Also, unless you're heavily exercising, the fructose will be converted into fat (rather than glycogen) in your liver which can promote insulin resistance.

      If you want fructose, eat fruit - that way it takes some time for your body to digest it and you're also getting fibre and nutrients. (Fruit juice is not a healthy way of eating fruit.)

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    33. Re:Sugar by evilviper · · Score: 2

      Very simply food manufacturers removed the fat in the 70's and replaced it with huge amounts of sugar. The problem with sugar is the brain doesn't see it as nutrition thus it doesn't suppress your appetite when you eat sugar filled foods.

      There are survival foods which are mostly sugar, yet people eating them don't get the sensation of starving to death.

      And what "food manufacturers" do shouldn't affect EVERYONE. I'm sure there are lots of people who rarely or never eat processed food, yet they're getting fat along with everyone else.

      And something else also happened in the 70s... food packaging and serving switched away from glass, and went to plastics... From canned food to baby bottles, plastic chemicals like BPA and other phthalates are leaching into your food. BPA is recognized by your body as estrogen, and excess estrogen is known to cause weight gain...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    34. Re:Sugar by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      All good points but I deliberately didn't address those because I don't know the answers.
      I just think dismissing "processed food" on the basis that animals don't eat it when the article is specifically about LAB animals who DO eat processed food is silly.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    35. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      They are fed a laboratory chow that is largely starch and sugar. It's not talking about wild animals.

    36. Re:Sugar by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 1

      But are they feeding the lab animals different foods than they were 40 years ago?

    37. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fructose is the killer.

    38. Re:Sugar by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, maybe you should follow the links you cite. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food clearly points to http://www.potatopro.com/newsletters/20100310.htm when it says there are currently no GMO potatoes marked for human consumption, but the linked page shows this information is outdated.

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
    39. Re:Sugar by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >Ugg. "Processed and manufacturered" are too damn vague to be useful in any way. WHAT part of the processing and manufacturing is causing this problem? And how do you know it's the problem, and not modern plastic containers, or pesticides used on crops, or any of a million other things that have changed that might be the root cause of our current epidemic?

      Again - like I said in my own post: I don't know that. I specifically ADMITTED I don't have the answer.
      I wasn't TRYING to give an ANSWER. I even said outright I didn't know if the OP was right or not.
      I just pointed out that the given reason for DISMISSING the OP's argument was bloody stupid and it was.
      That doesn't mean I agree with the OP's argument - I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough on the topic to either agree or not agree.

      But I can still call out a bloody stupid argument when I see one.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    40. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming chloride is the problem... When did we start chlorination? According to Wikipedia it became wide spread (in the US) in the early 1900's and by 1941 gaseous chlorine treatment was widely adopted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_chlorination . The period the study mentions overlaps the period in which chlorination is used to disinfect the public water supply. But the start of chlorination also predates the notice of the obesity problem by several decades. Therefore it seems that chloride is not the (only/main) culprit.

      [Correlation is not causation; your mileage may vary; I am not a chemist nor do I play one on television; etc.]

    41. Re:Sugar by dwarfsoft · · Score: 5, Informative

      Really. So you think it is chemically the same as glucose? The difference is that sucrose provides half sucrose half fructose. The fructose gets metabolized in an entirely different way to the glucose.

      The two main issues are that fructose by itself provides energy in such a way that it does not make the body feel "full", and that unlike the normal sugar we would expect (sucrose) we get no glucose from using it as an alternative.

      Normal consumption of fructose in a natural setting also would include fibre which helps signal the body about satiation. This has been a major contributing factor in the whole "processed foods" vs "weight gain" issue. HCFS is a major component of most of the processed products that we rely on for our bulk energy needs. Really, do take a look at the lecture. The biochemistry component on how fructose gets metabolized in the liver is very interesting.

      --
      Cheers, Chris
    42. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      HFCS 55, the most common form of high fructose corn syrup, is so close to honey, the oldest and most natural of sweetners, in its sugar composition that identifying it's use as an adulturant is quite tricky.

    43. Re:Sugar by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      Now I don't know very much about nutrition. But I think these reports of weight gain in marmosets are awfully convenient for the industry. We know they model us exquisitely to get us to eat as much as possible, yet we're supposed to believe that has no effect, and it's really just chemicals in our environment or something which makes us fat?

      What this reminds me of is the bullshit claims about global warming on Mars and Pluto. As it happens I knew enough physics to immediately see that as bullshit (Mars receives half as much sunlight as Earth and Pluto less that 1/1000), but I wouldn't know enough about nutrition to immediately make the same call here. It just sounds awfully convenient for the people who are fighting our sense of satiation with all means.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    44. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cat chow and yoghurt.

    45. Re:Sugar by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Who knows - they could be buying the exact same product under the exact same brand and that product could have had a radical change in it's composition without anybody ever really having noticed.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    46. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are a number of sugar compositions that are called high fructose corn syrup. HFCS 55 is 55% fructose, 45% percent glucose, the most common form used in sweetened beverages. This is nearly identical in composition to natural honey. HFCS 42 actually contains less fructose than glucose - making it, by your assertion, potentially MORE healthy than table sugar - and this is the HFCS found most commonly in processed non-beverage foods.

    47. Re:Sugar by somersault · · Score: 1

      I don't know the exact biological pathways and all that, but I've read that several halogens can cause problems with iodine absorption, as they're chemically similar. I didn't say that iodine uptake is blocked, just that chlorine can take its place.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    48. Re:Sugar by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

      Well, then **cite** those humans. I was just describing the obvious test to determine the truth of the proposition and get a useful statistical universe of data out of it. . .

    49. Re:Sugar by pla · · Score: 5, Informative

      From which of those do you suggest fat was removed in the 70 and "replaced with huge amounts of sugar"?

      Cat chow, for one. Cat count as obligate carnivores. They have zero need for sugar in their diet - They can't taste it), they can't even properly metabolize it. Bad for them. They do, however, have a high need for fat and protein.

      And it pisses me off every time I go shopping for cat chow that I have to pay literally twice as much to get cat food that doesn't have 15-25% added carbs in it. Cat food should not have any carbs, except what comes incidental to whatever kind of horse they use as the basic ingredient. And you think you can't go wrong buying tinned more-or-less fresh meat for fluffy? Nope. Many brands even add sugar to that.

      That said, I have to agree with you that wild marmosets probably don't eat a lot of doughnuts. ;)

    50. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HFCS can be 60% to 80% fructose. The 80% variety would be quite bad for you, but the 60% is more common. So in their most commonly used forms, they are all approximately the same.

    51. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      to back up my above statement there is a good short scientific article regarding sugar that can be found here

      You may very well be on the right path, but this is by no means a scientific article. Nature or Science contain scientific articles, they're called research papers.

      The problem we have is that we want someone to translate those articles into stuff that's lighthearted and easy to read. Scientific language is dense, precise, and written to guard against the natural human ability to over apply to misfitting situations. Most of the population can't read it without some effort, but when you offload that effort onto a third party that obtains a lot of its revenue from advertising channels, it is a perfect setting for slanted reporting on scientific findings. If it is not slanted in the reporting, it can be slanted in the selective reporting.

      In this case, it isn't even translated into a news piece. It's translated into a short film.

      Again, I tend to agree with the presented information; but, it is a good idea to remember how we came to believe what was accepted knowledge (that sugar was somehow the new "good" energy source), to recognize the flaws in the delivery system (that our science is translated into news by people with agendas), and to hopefully protect against similar decade-long mistakes.

    52. Re:Sugar by hawkinspeter · · Score: 2

      I always think that artificial sweeteners are very bad for dieters as they train the body to expect sweet food all the time. They also train the body to not expect many calories from sweet food, so they tend to make the consumer hungry as the body searches for calories.

      It can be surprising how quickly your tastes can adapt to reducing (or increasing) the sweetness in your diet.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    53. Re:Sugar by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Yep, the sugar war of 1898 against the Spanish.

      Not forgetting the sugar war of 1812 against the Canadians. Maple Syrup - by annexing the province of Quebec and they'd have had a sustainable sucrose source!

    54. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just think dismissing "processed food" on the basis that animals don't eat it when the article is specifically about LAB animals who DO eat processed food is silly.

      It is equally silly to say "the cause is processed food". When you cook a potato you just processed it. When you slice a tomato it you just processed it. "Processed manufactured commercial food is the reason" equals "I am stringing together zero-information words that I have been taught to consider scary in some vague way."

    55. Re:Sugar by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      I just looked it up and natural honey has a typical fructose content of 38.2%, so honey may be marginally better than HFCS 42, but I take your point that "natural" sugars may not be significantly different to HFCS. What seems to be the biggest difference is not the composition but the sheer amount of HFCS that gets consumed in beverages.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    56. Re:Sugar by tbannist · · Score: 1

      From what I understand, there actually is something special about high-fructose corn syrup (HFCS) as opposed to cane sugar. High fructose corn syrup has most of the sugar content (ranging from 60-90%, as I recall) as fructose which our bodies have a more difficult time processing than cane sugar. As I understand the fructose sugar gets processed by the liver and thus the fat generates by HFCS products tends to accumulate around your liver. There is evidence that suggests that diets high in HFCS can lead to liver scarring and type 2 diabetes.

      The rise in HFCS in the processed food industry also correlates well with the rise of the obesity. It is, most likely, only one of many contributing factors, but I really don't need a fatty, scarred liver and diabetes regardless of whether it's also making me fat.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    57. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you process close to the farm when produce is in season you can make pretty healthy processed food, that have long shelf life, this is why we did not see the growth happen when the canneries started to take of in the 19th century. The only catch here is that it will taste more like what people really ate in the 1930ies then the much sweater and fatter diet of fancy restaurants people have come to expect from processed food. We simply process with the deliberate goal of making the food higher in sugar then previous diets.

      HFCS and other converted grains does along with corn-fed beef, pork and chicken allow the manufactures to make stuff that's closer to "traditional" fancy cooking then anything a regular worker would get to eat before the 70ies for almost nothing, this surplus in food is something we as society never really adjusted.

      We of cause also have the economic pressure of an entitled agricultural sector producing so much more food then the the public need that they depend on concentrated/converted products to keep the waste high enough. and that leads to food that have more usable calories in it then our feedback systems are tuned to, all funded by government subsidies. When scarcity is always the defining factor of society, high calorie foods in huge quantities are are a good thing, the problem is that we no longer live in a society defined by scarcity.

      What makes it worse is of cause that the main trigger for fat burning is the release of dopamine when performing manual labor and the other big government backed industry we have is machine manufacturing so manual labor is pretty much a thing of the past. We can simulate the same process by exercising but that means tackling another big and well connected industry as people dont watch TV while jogging in the park or participating in sports.

      Our entire economy is based around people eating too much doing no manual work and not being especially active in the free outdoors in their spare time. If people started riding bicycle's, running around outside instead of consuming media, and stopped consuming the agricultural surplus products, who is going to fund political campaigns? There just is'nt enough money in sports equipment, to make up for the loss in over-consumption.

    58. Re:Sugar by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Fructose is about twice as sweet as other common sugars. If you're preparing your own foods, you can use half as much to achieve the same amount of sweetness.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    59. Re:Sugar by udippel · · Score: 1

      Were you not an AC, I'd reply and tell you that the parent is fully correct. Never mind.

    60. Re:Sugar by udippel · · Score: 1

      Were you not an AC, you deserved +5 for insightful. It is the fructose and the glucose-syrup and friends. Sweeter than sugar. One of the seven deadly sins.

    61. Re:Sugar by durathor · · Score: 1

      So I went away and actually did the (literature) research on this. It turns out the answer is a little more complicated than fat suppresses appetite and sugar doesn't.

      Basically, what little we understand of appetite control points to three hormones: leptin, insulin and ghrelin (great name). Oversimplifying massively, insulin tells you not to eat when your blood sugar is high and to be hungry when your blood sugar is low; leptin tells you not to eat if your stored fat is high and to be hungry when it is too low; and ghrelin tells you not to eat if your stomach is full and to be hungry if your stomach is empty.

      However, to complicate things further, firstly these hormones interact with each other such that, for instance, if your stored fat is high, you will be less sensitive to low blood sugar or an empty stomach. However, you also adjust your long term sensitivity to these hormone levels to make the average level become the baseline, so if you're fat for a sustained period, your sensitivity to leptin will decrease and therefore low blood sugar levels or an empty stomach will revert to causing normal levels of hunger.

      What this means is that sustained consumption of high levels of either fats or sugars will lead to increased hunger levels and therefore obesity. This sounds like a no brainer, but note that it is a cumulative effect, in that increased resistance to these appetite suppressing hormones makes it more likely that your body will fool you into overeating, which will make it more likely that your resistance will increase.

      Finally, to link it all back to the article, the mechanisms controlling our sensitivity to these hormones is still poorly understood and known to be affected by such things as sleep patterns, stress and illness. It's therefore not too much of a stretch to say that environmental factors are causing a long term decrease in sensitivity. It would been nice to have a bit more of this detailed information in the article though and a little less 'it's something to do with leptin but we're not sure what'.

    62. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "High" Fructose means that it is 55% Fructose/45% Glucose. Regular "natural" table sugar by comparison is 50% Fructose/50% Glucose. Do you really think that shift of 5% is that big of a deal?

    63. Re:Sugar by udippel · · Score: 1

      Absolutely correct. I wonder how - as of now - posting under your screen-name - +5 is not awarded.

    64. Re:Sugar by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      Marriage makes you fat

      You know what they say, the #1 food that makes people obese is wedding cake.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    65. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone did a comparison between cereals, cookies and breads from a couple of decades ago, and the manufacturers are adding considerably more sugar now, because that's what consumers want.

      Don't forget stuff like spaghetti sauce (see Ragu brand for some for the sweetest)

    66. Re:Sugar by udippel · · Score: 1

      I don't know where you go shopping, but I would like to know and join you. Because where I go, it is not about the yoghurt. It is about almost everything. From gherkins over to almost any non-mineral-water-drink to all and any precooked food.

    67. Re:Sugar by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      Diets filled with processed and manufactured foods.

      Pointless statement.

      Uh no. Your statement is idiotic.
      The study showed _something_. The first thing I noticed is that all the lab animals have been getting fatter over the years. That kind of points to their food. If wild animals haven't been getting fat (with limited access to processed food) but wild humans have (who tend to eat food processed the same way), that points to something.

      Your statement saying it doesn't immediately implicate the processing of food is stoopid.
      In fact, the next step, imo for almost absolute proof, is to see if the weight of populations of wilderness area raccoons has increased, decreased or stayed the same over the last few decades as opposed to raccoons in urban areas with more access to processed food.

    68. Re:Sugar by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      Yep, 5% probably isn't that significant, but as with all things, it's the amount that gets consumed. A small amount would be fine, but so many fizzy drinks are pumped so full of HFCS that HFCS gets a bad name by association.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    69. Re:Sugar by Immerman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, large quantites of fructose are toxic - supposedly has something to do with a pre-human mutation that let us scarf down fruit and efficiently store the fructose as fat in our liver against the lean times. Causes some problems if the lean times never come.

      As far as high-fructose corn syrup is concerned:
      table sugar: 50% sucrose, 50% fructose
      HFCS: 45% sucrose, 55% fructose
      It's not really a big deal. Yes, you'll increase your fructose intake 10% if you eat the same quantity as "sugar", but HFCS tends to be considerably sweeter, so you'll probably be using less and at least partially offset the difference. As long as you're not gorging yourself on sugars it's a non-issue, and if you *are* gorging yourself on enough sugars for the slight increase in fructose to be a problem, you're already doing much worse things to your body, it's just not designed to handle that kind of sugar intake. The only way it could be a significant issue is if the sucrose somehow stimulated fructose to be digested in safer manner, but I've never heard anything to suggest such a thing, and IIRC they follow rather different metabolic pathways.

      The purported appetite-stimulation effects of HFCS are another thing altogether, and certainly a problem if real. As could be any interesting chemicals created as a side effect of the processing and deemed ""nonhazardous". Honestly I stopped paying close attention. Most of the sugar in my normal diet comes from fresh fruit these days, the easiest way I could think of to keep my sweet-tooth from turning me into a fat diabetic.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    70. Re:Sugar by jon3k · · Score: 2

      lol fructose is just a disaccharide, its technically a more complex carb chain than glucose (monosaccharide). do you mean high fructose corn syrup? you're sort of right. typically what you see is HFCS55 which is 55% fructose and 41% glucose. to put it in perspective, granulated sugar is 50/50 fructose/glucose. so HFCS is only marginally more fructose than regular sugar, so you're wrong. but you're also right, because sugar, hfcs and all the other high glycemic carbs are what's really causing this problem.

    71. Re:Sugar by jon3k · · Score: 1

      Bingo! HFCS-55 vs granulated sugar there's almost no difference in fructose content. It's not what's worse sugar or HFCS, it's that they're BOTH bad in large quantities. Diabetes, metabolic syndrome, etc, etc etc. all linked to both sugar and hfcs.

    72. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't even read the fucking summary, did you? Instead you jumped in trying to swim in the frosty piss pool. Shame on you, you really look stupid from your comment. If it's the extra sugar and reduced fat, why are lab animals, whose diets are strictly controlled, also getting fatter? It's mammals of all species; humans, cats, dogs, monkey, rabbits, all species everywhere as the fucking article you skipped to get first post said.

      If your ancestors are Greek you're probably fat. It's hereditary. My genome tends to leanness; I've always had a hard time putting weight on -- except for the two years I was on Paxil, when I gained 40 pounds. When I got off the Paxil I started losing weight. It was chemical and had nothing to do with diet.

      Next time please STFU before you go saying something without citation that directly contradicts TFA.

      Moderators, please get to work on that idiot. -1 overrated frosty piss. Oh wait, he's a +5, you didn't read it either. Thanks for fucking up slashdot, morons (yes I'm having a bad day, my arthritis is killing me).

    73. Re:Sugar by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      I would have thought that HFCS is far worse than sucrose as it's mainly fructose which is processed by the liver rather than the stomach.

      The term "High Fructose Corn Syrup" is sort of misleading. In reality, it only means corn syrup that has a higher fructose content that corn syrup naturally would, not that it is necessarily higher in fructose than pure sucrose any other particular sweetener (although it can be). The Wikipedia article has some useful info on common blends of HFCS and their comparison to other sweeteners, although it's kind of scattered throughout the prose and not in an easy to compare tabular presentation.

      I knew that we were using more sugars in general in the US, but the attached chart surprised me with a three-fold increase in per-capita consumption between about 1973 and 1983. I would have liked to have seen more history than just back to 1966, but that's what I found.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    74. Re:Sugar by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      RTFA.
      It's very interesting.

      "over the past 20 years or more, as the American people were getting fatter, so were America’s marmosets. As were laboratory macaques, chimpanzees, vervet monkeys and mice, as well as domestic dogs, domestic cats, and domestic and feral rats from both rural and urban areas. In fact, the researchers examined records on those eight species and found that average weight for every one had increased."

      "It isn’t hard to imagine that people who are eating more themselves are giving more to their spoiled pets, or leaving sweeter, fattier garbage for street cats and rodents. But such results don’t explain why the weight gain is also occurring in species that human beings don’t pamper, such as animals in labs, whose diets are strictly controlled. In fact, lab animals’ lives are so precisely watched and measured that the researchers can rule out accidental human influence: records show those creatures gained weight over decades without any significant change in their diet or activities. Obviously, if animals are getting heavier along with us, it can’t just be that they’re eating more Snickers bars and driving to work most days. On the contrary, the trend suggests some widely shared cause, beyond the control of individuals, which is contributing to obesity across many species."

    75. Re:Sugar by denis-The-menace · · Score: 1

      In this documentary, the doctor explain HOW sugar is processed differently than HFCS.

      HFCS *FORCES* the liver to create fat.

      Now HFCS is linked to Liver damage.
      https://www.google.ca/search?q=hfcs+liver+damage

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    76. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They may have done but it's also the the transition from nautral sugars to high fructose corn syrups. Hit your favourite video site for a excellent 3 part documentary from the BBC called "The Men That Made Us Fat". Interestingly, the follow-up on why diets and exercise are ineffective, "The Men That Made Us Thin" is just airing in the UK now.

    77. Re:Sugar by blueg3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most applications of HFCS use versions that are between 40% and 60% fructose. The other 40-60% is, of course, glucose.

      Table sugar, sucrose, is a disaccharide that consists of glucose and fructose combined. When it's metabolized, very early on, it's hydrolyzed into its constituent parts (glucose and fructose), which are then metabolized normally. So by the time you're talking about actually using the sugar for energy, HFCS and sugar are the same.

      There's some evidence that the metabolic feedback early on of sucrose, glucose, and fructose have subtly different effects.

      But fructose, pre-hydrolysis, is not some rare chemical only found in HFCS. Agave syrup is about 75% fructose / 25% glucose. Fruit is quite heavily weighted toward fructose. Honey is roughly equal parts glucose and fructose (plus a weird collection of other sugars). Invert sugar, which is created in the kitchen from sugar, is a common component of many candies and confections. Invert sugar is just hydrolyzed sucrose -- 50% glucose and 50% fructose. (Heat sucrose in water and some of it will invert. Add a bit of acid and stick with it and most of it will invert. Now you've basically recreated HFCS.)

      There's nothing chemically special about HFCS. Despite the label "high fructose", which is chemically accurate but terrible marketing, it's not really high in fructose relative to other common forms of sugar. It's also, despite claims, not enormously cheaper than sugar. It's cheap, yes. Sugar is also cheap. A lot of companies have been moving from HFCS to sugar because the cost difference is small and the marketing edge is big.

      The problem with HFCS is that sugars in general, along with fats and salt, are really overused in processed and prepared foods.

    78. Re:Sugar by Kjella · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since nobody outside of Thyroid problems understands that, it's easy to rationalize your hate and tell people to exercise and stop eating so much. It's not uncommon to gain 100 pounds in one week after a complete removal.

      The only way you could possibly gain 100 pounds in a week is if you eat >14 pounds of food per day. Even if my body suddenly had a 100% food to energy conversion rate and spent no calories at all I doubt I could add more than 3 to 4 pounds a day as that's the gross weight of my food, so the only way that could happen is on an extremely high calorie eating binge. It's exactly this kind of ridiculous exaggeration that leads to people not taking you seriously.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    79. Re:Sugar by m00sh · · Score: 1

      There was an interesting argument that we are fat because lipids were unfortunately named fats. So, people easily took the association that fats make you fat. If they had been called lipids, then lipids makes you fat would take a bit of convincing.

      You say sugar but any forms of carbs also act as sugar. Starch turns into sugar very very quickly with enzymes. But, people have been eating starchy foods for a long time.

      The other thing is the vegetarian movement. A local doctor on TV keeps saying "eat less animals and more plants". Animal fat, a major source of fat 50 years ago which was used for deep frying, has been replaced by corn/soyabean oil. The only way to get animal fat now is to collect bacon fat. The first association people make with bacon is artery-clogging.

    80. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I watched this lecture recently about Fructose (and high fructose corn syrup). https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dBnniua6-oM

      It was quite long (1.5 hours) but very informative in how bad HFCS is to us, and why low fat has caused this.

      For those who would rather not waste an hour and a half listening to some hippie crap:
      High fructose corn syrup is more refined than raw sugars, and thus easier for the human body to process, so you can absorb calories faster and more efficiently. Other than that, there's no difference. It's not bad for you, what is bad for you is eating too much of it. Just like pretty much any other food.

      The problem with sugar is the brain doesn't see it as nutrition thus it doesn't suppress your appetite when you eat sugar filled foods.

      The GP said that. Which is another pile of hippie bullshit. Your body makes you feel "full" or "hungry" based on how full your stomach is, not what is in it. Sugars, especially high fructose corn syrup, absorb rapidly and get flushed into the intestinal tract very quickly. It has nothing to do with the brain thinking sugar is or isn't nutrition.

      As for the article, it's a pretty simple thing. Animals get fat during times of plenty so they have fat reserves when times are lean.

    81. Re:Sugar by rtaylor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Few few people ate dozens of kilograms of honey per year.

      The quantity of HFCS in a typical modern diet is rather large.

      --
      Rod Taylor
    82. Re:Sugar by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      ....and, Cuba has lots of sugar. But the land of the free is still mad at Cuba for actions 50+ years ago, so the country remains embargoed and impoverished. Russia, China, Vietnam? They're all good buddies now, lots of forgiveness to go around. Cuba? Fuckem.

      There's a block of very reliable voters in a swing state that would get pretty pissed at any candidate or party that sought to normalize US-Cuba relations. I don't know how else to explain the animosity whose roots predate the birth of the current president.

      Of course the sugar tariffs and quotas go beyond just Cuba, and are a testament to the lobbying power of several large food processors that crank out refined cane, beet and corn syrup. The justification is, as always, that it would hurt American farmers, and it might. But farmers aren't the ones slipping big bills into Congress' g-strings.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    83. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > What do humans and lab animals have in common ? Diets filled with processed and manufactured foods.

      Well, we also spend a lot of time in small, confined spaces with no exercise.

    84. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The husband comes home, looks in the bedroom...

      .... finds something interesting, and goes to eat? ;-)

    85. Re:Sugar by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      This post is like processed food... Suits our fancy, easy on the eye , no real demands, assures us we are safe, badmouths the competition ... ...And created by a faceless anonymous entity

    86. Re:Sugar by operagost · · Score: 1

      It's a little more complex than that, but the anti-fat fad was extremely harmful. Most people did not eat too much fat, but perhaps a little too much saturated fat and later we found that we really don't want trans fats whether we're overweight or not. I'm not blaming consumers, because they were just following the advice given by the same researchers who would later tell them cholesterol is bad, sugar is bad, alcohol is bad, carbs are bad, and salt is bad.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    87. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1, Interesting

      HFCS is bad for you, but there's nothing special about it vis-a-vis cane sugar. Or agave nectar, or honey, for that matter.

      Independent studies show that the body can process and digest natural sugars (honey, beet, cane) but can not process HFCS. Natural News has reported on numerous studies on the subject. Additive producers "claim" that they are the same, but they obviously have self interest in making such claims.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    88. Re:Sugar by CreatureComfort · · Score: 3, Funny

      But, but... if they DON'T add sugar, then grandma will think it tastes TERRIBLE when that's all she can afford.

      --
      "Unheard of means only it's undreamed of yet,
      Impossible means not yet done." ~~ Julia Ecklar
    89. Re:Sugar by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      So how does this affect other animals?

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    90. Re:Sugar by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes but it is also a poison. Sucrose too, but only because sucrose is one fructose and one glucose bonded, and the body has no trouble breaking that bond.

      Problem with fructose is it is only processed in the liver. I am going off memory here, if you want a more in depth discussion from an expert google "Sugar the bitter truth" a video by an endocrinologist. So.... while only about 10% of the glucose that you ingest is processed in the liver, 90% of the fructose is.

      The liver's process for dealing with these produces several products, which include both VLDLs (the worst kinds of cholesterol, far worst than you get from fat, which is mostly more boyent cholesterol...even not all LDLs are created equal) AND it produces hormones which supress appetite.

      So sucrose is 50% fructose. If you use sucrose It splits 50-50 into glucose and fructose. 10% of the glucose and 90% of the fructose go to your liver... or about 55% of the total you ingested. If you use fructose, thats the full 90%.

      Since it supresses appetite, you tend to eat more. A kid given a soda before a meal tends to eat more during the meal than a kid who doesn't.

      As for spoilers on the video.... the problem more comes down to reduction in fiber. Fiber increases fullness, slows down the absorbtion of sugars, and is always found with sugars in nature. A glass of fruit juice is every bit as bad, and does the same liver damage, as a shot of whiskey. (alcohol is a carbohydrate too remember). You can't really overeat if you are munching on apples. Remove the juice from the fiber, and you can pack in the calories like nobodies business.

      Know anyone who ever got diabetes from chewing on sugar cane? Didn't think so. Good luck trying it.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    91. Re:Sugar by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      It'd be interesting to see if there's any correlation between high sugar consumption and general health across the world.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    92. Re:Sugar by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      > AND it produces hormones which supress appetite. ...
      > Since it supresses appetite, you tend to eat more

      Sorry, I meant to say, supress fullness...both times. Or supress the other hormones which supress appetite...same thing. Oh well... my asbestos undies needed another test.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    93. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [citation needed]. Here's one that says otherwise: http://www.naturalnews.com/032281_HFCS_sugar.html

    94. Re:Sugar by eth1 · · Score: 1

      Cat chow, for one. Cat count as obligate carnivores. They have zero need for sugar in their diet - They can't taste it), they can't even properly metabolize it. Bad for them. They do, however, have a high need for fat and protein.

      And it pisses me off every time I go shopping for cat chow that I have to pay literally twice as much to get cat food that doesn't have 15-25% added carbs in it. Cat food should not have any carbs, except what comes incidental to whatever kind of horse they use as the basic ingredient. And you think you can't go wrong buying tinned more-or-less fresh meat for fluffy? Nope. Many brands even add sugar to that.

      Actually, you have to pay almost 2x as much to get decent cat food. Anything you're likely to find in a walmart, kroger, or other supermarket as far as pet food goes is pretty much like taking your kids to mcdonald's three meals a day. At least they eat ~20% less of the good stuff, so that offsets the extra cost a bit. Compare the ingredients of something like Iams cat food (which most people seem to think is "good") with something like Wellness Core (which actually is good).

      Even at 2x the cost, a cat doesn't eat *that* much - skip Starbuck's 2 or 3 times a month, and you've made up the difference.

    95. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This message brought to you by the corn farming corporate conglomerates of America!

      There's plenty of evidence to suggest that HFCS has different effects on the body. Saying it's chemically similar to other sugars doesn't mean much.

      Unit-for-unit energy density the same? Fine. Interesting how HFCS does not trigger the sensation of being 'full', spuring people that consume it to eat more, increasing overall calorie consumption.. And the amount of food people buy.

      The processed food industry knows exactly what HFCS does to the body. Food mass production is a science, and they'll do anything to make you eat more.

    96. Re:Sugar by sFurbo · · Score: 1

      The only chlorine compound that I know of that can influence the uptake of iodine is perchlorate, and I have a hard time seeing how sucralose should be converted into perchlorate in the body.

      The halogens aren't that chemically similar, and they have vastly different sizes, so I don't think body would generally be in danger of confusing them, except for special cases like perchlorate. Do you have sources that mention which other halogen compounds does the same?

    97. Re: Sugar by dwarfsoft · · Score: 1

      I think the main issue is they are adding more HFCS to everything, not less. This is what is affecting us, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

      --
      Cheers, Chris
    98. Re:Sugar by Overzeetop · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Water is a poison, as is oxygen. Actually, glucose is also a poison by these standards. When you take a common food staple and label is as a poison at the beginning of your argument you lose all credibility.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    99. Re:Sugar by fearofcarpet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      lol fructose is just a disaccharide, its technically a more complex carb chain than glucose (monosaccharide). do you mean high fructose corn syrup? you're sort of right. typically what you see is HFCS55 which is 55% fructose and 41% glucose. to put it in perspective, granulated sugar is 50/50 fructose/glucose. so HFCS is only marginally more fructose than regular sugar, so you're wrong. but you're also right, because sugar, hfcs and all the other high glycemic carbs are what's really causing this problem.

      Sucrose is cleaved into fructose and glucose by enzymes in the saliva, but there is also an odd glitch in our metabolic pathways that tends to divert energy derived from free fructose directly into fat storage instead of converting it all to glucose. One theory is that since fruits ripen during the warm months and fruits often contain an abundance of fructose, that it once served as a trigger to start storing fat for Winter, but who knows. The problem boils down to more calories in than out, but it can make a difference how those calories are consumed.

      --
      Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
    100. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very simply food manufacturers removed the fat in the 70's and replaced it with huge amounts of sugar. The problem with sugar is the brain doesn't see it as nutrition thus it doesn't suppress your appetite when you eat sugar filled foods.

      It's occurring in all animals, not just humans and chimps. With rising temperatures, warm-blooded animals no longer shiver as much as they previously did, the energy not lost in maintaining a higher body temperature is stored as fat.

    101. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 2

      Hybrid foods are not the same as GMO foods, and making such a claim reeks of either ignorance or willful collusion. GMO foods, the ones that most people have problems with, contain genes that can not happen in nature. Forcing bacteria genes into corn for example to get them to produce insecticides on the stalk (as one of many foreign genes introduced into GMO corn).

      Very recently there were a few experiments using both GMO and hybridization to get water resistant rice. They were able to naturally do so with hybridization much cheaper and easier than with GMO. I'm hoping to see toxicology and nutritional studies to see how much difference there is in the final product.

      Believing that GMO is safe because some big company told you is ignorant. Not very long ago, cigarettes were touted as a cure for many things and we were told how they were safe. It took years and years of lawsuits to get them to simply admit "Smoking may be dangerous to pregnant women." and a dozen more years to finally admit it was carcinogenic among other things.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    102. Re:Sugar by fearofcarpet · · Score: 1

      Really. So you think it is chemically the same as glucose? The difference is that sucrose provides half sucrose half fructose. The fructose gets metabolized in an entirely different way to the glucose.

      The two main issues are that fructose by itself provides energy in such a way that it does not make the body feel "full", and that unlike the normal sugar we would expect (sucrose) we get no glucose from using it as an alternative.

      Normal consumption of fructose in a natural setting also would include fibre which helps signal the body about satiation. This has been a major contributing factor in the whole "processed foods" vs "weight gain" issue. HCFS is a major component of most of the processed products that we rely on for our bulk energy needs. Really, do take a look at the lecture. The biochemistry component on how fructose gets metabolized in the liver is very interesting.

      Most of what you said is spot-on, but fructose is not really metabolized differently than glucose. Both are six-carbon sugars and fructose is immediately rearranged to glucose enzymatically. But, again, not disagreeing with the rest of what you said--it makes a huge difference how we consume sugars and what they are consumed in combination with.

      --
      Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
    103. Re:Sugar by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Informative

      Really. So you think it is chemically the same as glucose?

      No, but cane sugar isnt glucose; its a disaccharide composed of a glucose linked to a fructose, ie roughly 50% of each.

      Guess what the most common forumations of HFCS are?
      55 fructose - 42 glucose
      42 fructose - 53 glucose

      Oh look, one of those has a higher glucose:fructose ratio than "healthy" sucrose.

      Its been said a million times: HFCS is a bogeyman. Sometimes, in some situations, it can be less healthy, but the problem is one of quantity consumed, not what particular type of sugar youre eating. I would suggest that one of the causes of obesity is these stupid food fads that promise that X is the miracle cure to weight, and you can do whatever you want as long as you eliminate X. Guess what, cutting off HFCS does you no good if you replace it with cane sugar or lard or tons of carbs or...

    104. Re:Sugar by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Informative

      The answer is actually quite simple, so simple that most people miss it.

      Processed food generally means the fiber has been removed in some manner or another or involves low fiber foods to begin with. Fiber increases feelings of fullness, and slows the absorbtion of sugars, which supress fullness, increase the worst kinds of cholesterol, and damage the liver (sugar is processed similarly to alcohol, which does the same things wrt cholesterol and liver damage)

      Also, since "fat" was demonized as increasing cholesterol, and removing fat from processed food leaves it tasting like cardboard, "low fat" food has been loaded up with sugar.... which, is demonstrably worst than the fat it replaced.

      Ignore all the talk of "toxins" and "not natural" or any of the other BS, it really is that simple. Its the fiber/sugar/fat connection that is huge. Average simple sugar consumption has skyrocketed while fiber intake hasn't. It answers not only why we have more diabetes and heart disease but, why people eat more in general.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    105. Re:Sugar by be951 · · Score: 1

      How does that explain the lab animals? From TFA:

      "In fact, lab animals’ lives are so precisely watched and measured that the researchers can rule out accidental human influence: records show those creatures gained weight over decades without any significant change in their diet or activities."

    106. Re:Sugar by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      These are all animals that eat foods made in large scale commercial operations and poured out of a tin or cardboard box.

      Do you work in a lab or otherwise have access to data on what these lab animals are fed?

      Because otherwise perhaps you shouldnt speculate wildly and then pretend its fact.

    107. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you think food/drink companies spend money enriching the fructose content of their products then? Why not just use regular corn syrup? Hint: Its not that you can taste a difference.

    108. Re:Sugar by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      Yeah, right. And then they taught all the marmots to forget about their usual food and only eat Cheetos.

      RTFA or GTFO.

      --
      Will
    109. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sure showed him. I'm sure he'll think about his decision to post AC in the future.

    110. Re:Sugar by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      Personally, I'm going to go with the massive increase in the usage of corn based products. It may not be the corn itself, but some chemical or other actor in it that is causing the effect. The feedstock of almost every animal these days is corn or has many corn based byproducts.

    111. Re:Sugar by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 1

      idunno about de logic in parent post. if ye'r buried up to yer neck in sand, that 10% increase will snuff yeh out, fur shurr.

      --
      Will
    112. Re:Sugar by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      So your response to the challenge "synthetic isnt worse for you" is "speculate, speculate, speculate, FUD".

      Why not actually post some sources? Here, Ill do it for you.

      But there are considerable profits to be made in making the food as cheaply as possible.

      And clearly organic farmers are immune to this, right? I guess the difference is that when a non-organic farmer contaminates his produce, he can fall back on irradiation to sterilize his produce, while the organic farmer cannot. Still feeling good about organic?

    113. Re:Sugar by halexists · · Score: 1

      Does anybody who has ever seen this video have trouble reading the summary without hearing the Shirrelles croon "momma said, momma said!" ?

    114. Re:Sugar by sgbett · · Score: 2

      When you disregard the entire thesis because you don't like one of the things the person said. Does that make your counter argument credible?

      Seriously there is a massive body of scientific evidence that implicates refined sugars as being a significant factor in things like obesity and metabolic syndrome.

      The body is complicated, and figuring out what is good for people is hard. Further complicated by the fact that it doesn't necessarily correspond with what is profitable.

      Here is a another thing you might not like for its 'sensationalist' nature, but its worth considering: Sugar acts like a drug. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_addiction

      --
      Invaders must die
    115. Re:Sugar by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Obviously, the dropping of fat levels and the rise of HFCS look to be LIKELY causes

      Thats not obvious to me, and when I bothered to research the difference between HFCS and cane sugar, it actually became highly doubtful (hint, theyre chemically 90% the same, and its a wash whether the HFCS you consume in a particular product is better or worse for you).

      It seems far more likely to me that this tendency to try to find "silver bullets" to fix your diet is the cause-- "eliminate carbs, and you can eat all the sugar you want"; "eliminate gluten and you can eat all the junkfood you want"; "eliminate HFCS and you can eat all the sugar you want". That, and gross quantity consumed, as well as generally not really caring about one's diet.

    116. Re:Sugar by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Go to a non-hippie grocery store and try to find full-fat yogurt that has not been sweetened.

      Its called "plain yogurt". You can find it at Giant foods, and i imagine everyone else. Stonyfield farms brand, as well as storebrand, and probably a million others. Costco also has it in greek, indian, and regular styles.

    117. Re: Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Thank you for pointing out the label. Corn syrup, aka "dextrose", is almost straight glucose. They add an enzyme to make roughly 90% fructose, then stir that back in with regular corn syrup to make either 40 or 55% fructose. So, relative to corn syrup, yeah, hfcs is "high fructose".

      People should also know that the fourty-whatever percent hfcs is usually used in dry form in baked goods as a preservative rather than a sweetener; those things usually contain sugar as well. The hfcs helps things stay soft and moist for longer on the shelf.

    118. Re:Sugar by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      We have a winner. There also may be a factor that we eat constantly these days, in the past we had times of low and high calorie intake and that our bodies are not handling a constant influx of high octane fuel.

    119. Re:Sugar by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      > try to find full-fat yogurt that has not been sweetened.

      I couldn't, so now I 'grow' my own. It's kind of fun, tastes good (but not sweet like candy) and is good for me.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    120. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pointless statement.

      There is absolutely nothing that says that processed or manufactured food should be the same as any other food. Even if the food is entirely natural doesn't mean that it is in any way less healthy than synthetic food.
      There could be something wrong with the natural food that thin and healthy people eat but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible to create natural food that is healthier.

      General fear of natural/whatever isn't helpful and doesn't lead to a correct decisions. Instead you should point out the specifics on why current food is bad.
      It's not like switching to a diet of processed/manufactured glucose is going to be healthier.

      Captcha: reprint

    121. Re: Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think you can't taste the difference between "regular corn syrup", which is just glucose (called dextrose when it comes from corn), and hfcs, then you're not qualified to be participating in this discussion.

    122. Re:Sugar by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      Wrong, the processed food I eat have most of the natural sugar and starch artificially removed. (Do you see the problem with blaming processed food without pointing out the specifics?)

      You Everybody else.

      The specifics are that, statistically, more people are eating foods that have had there sugar, starch, sodium, and fibre levels greatly modified. He did point out the specifics that effect most of the population. Modern shelved food has a lot of added sugar.

    123. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Independent studies show that the body can process and digest natural sugars (honey, beet, cane) but can not process HFCS. Natural News has reported on numerous studies on the subject. Additive producers "claim" that they are the same, but they obviously have self interest in making such claims.

      As opposed to Natural News, which has no financial interest in claiming that natural foods are more healthy that processed foods.

    124. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sugar is the answer, but not because of the reason stated. You can easily follow the pattern of decreased Saturated Fat consumption, increased Carbohydrate(Sugar) consumption and obesity since the seventies and the publishing of the “Dietary goals for the United States” in 1977. This was based off the McGovern Report with quotes like “We don’t have the luxury of time to find the truth before making policy.”

      The reason Sugar and Carbohydrates(which are basically just sugar) cause obesity is because they elevate blood sugar levels. This causes an increase in Insulin. Any medical text book will tell you, insulin will cause cells to absorb and store glucose, and fatty acids. Elevated insulin levels also prevent cells from releasing excess glucose/fat to use as energy.

      With elevated insulin levels, any calories you eat will first go to making you fatter and then used as energy, which is why a conventional starvation diet will always make you tired. Simply lowering the insulin levels will allow fat cells to act normally, like a hybrid car battery: releasing energy when needed and storing only when needed. You will typically eat less and burn more calories as heat.

    125. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CAPS sometimes helps ASSOCIATE a conversation with RETARDEDNESS.

    126. Re:Sugar by Meeni · · Score: 1

      Were you eating several hundred of pounds of honey in prehistoric times too? It's pretty certain that HFCS is not dangerous in small quantities. What about long term exposure to excessive intake ? Research tends toward proving it is damaging the liver, but your honey analogy is certainly as good as control tested experiments I guess.

    127. Re:Sugar by somersault · · Score: 2

      Well, there's an awful lot of "everyone knows" type stuff out there about it, but here's one article about the effects of chloride in rat's thyroids. There's also a lot out there about flouride and thyroid function. Flouride is even worse than chloride apparently, and much harder to expel from your body once it's bound, due to the lighter weight and greater reactivity.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    128. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Because otherwise perhaps you shouldnt speculate wildly and then pretend its fact.

      Concluding that animals kept in captivity are fed a captivity diet... yeah that's definitely "wild speculation".

    129. Re:Sugar by fearofcarpet · · Score: 1

      You must be outside the U.S.

      In the U.S. we've been using High Fructose Corn Syrup as our sweetener for a couple decades now. Why import something natural when you can synthesize something much worse locally?

      Tragically that is the result of political decisions ranging from Cold War era corn subsidies to trying to undermine the sugar cane industries in countries that we don't like. At one point there was simply too much corn being grown to consume, so industries started looking for other things to do with it. They have done some amazingly clever things, but also things like HFCS and ethanol. Eventually the food industry basically broke food into its constituent parts: fat, salt, and sugar. Fat from (hydrogenated) vegetable oil and sugar from refined corn. Toss in some texture from modified soy, maybe a bit of wheat, sprinkle salt on it and add some circus grade meat so you can put "beef" on the box--poof, Hot Pockets.

      ...so in a way, it's the government that made us fat.

      --
      Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
    130. Re:Sugar by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Normally I would completely agree except, there is a difference here. People are not increasing their consumption of water, exposure to oxygen, or even ingestion of glucose, to the point that they are manifesting toxic effects.

      The rise in diabetes, heart disease, and liver damage, are seeming to indicate that fructose consumption IS in fact reaching levels that are manifesting toxic effects in the form of those diseases, which are exactly what we would expect from chronic exposure to excessive levels of fructose.

      Sugar is a poision, just like many things are poisons, but unlike those many things, a large percentage of the population is exposing themselves to toxic amounts of it.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    131. Re:Sugar by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I wonder if there could be a connection between chlorinated water and chlorine blocking iodine reception in the thyroid. Like TFA says... 'everything'...

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    132. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you RTFA you would realize there is nothing "very simply" about it

    133. Re:Sugar by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      -When you slice a tomato it you just processed it.

      No, you have a cut up tomato, the chemical properties of the tomato are the same.

      -When you cook a potato you just processed it.

      Yes, when you cook an item you change its chemical make up. Most of the time this has beneficial effects.

      Now, saying that cooking is anything like dipping your food in benzene or a vat of enzymes designed for a specific purpose is totally wrong.

    134. Re:Sugar by sgbett · · Score: 1

      This is absolutely the most accurate post in this thread.

      It boils down to calories, if yoour body gets more calories than it needs and/or it gets calories faster than it needs then it has to do something with them.

      It stores them for later. As fat.

      "processed" food lets both these things happen.

      "unprocessed" food mitigates this.

      There's that whole thing about cooking food allowing us to evolve because it meant we could eat more, get more nutrients etc well this is just taking that one step further. Not only do we cook it, but we refine it so that its easy to get a several thousand calorie surplus every day, and still go back for more. The super obese are great case studies in this, and a testemant to the efficiency of the human body in dealing with whatever we throw at it!

      --
      Invaders must die
    135. Re:Sugar by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      -cat chow

      Read the first ingredient of most animal foods and you will see that it is corn these days. Unfortunately I don't have any information on '70s animal food.

    136. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your chemistry is wrong.

      Sucrose (cane sugar) is 50% glucose and 50% fructose. It is a disaccharide molecule.

      HFCS is 45% glucose and 55% fructose.

    137. Re:Sugar by PlusFiveTroll · · Score: 1

      My guess. Corn. The amount of corn in said products is apt to have gone up greatly. Also the processing techniques that apply grain processing have changed greatly over that time, enzymes that we use to convert starch to sugar have become much more efficient since then.

    138. Re:Sugar by somersault · · Score: 1

      Flouride too.. and even if you filter your drinking, you can still end up with it from plants that accumulate it.. I've just been reading that a lot of people ingest fluoride from drinking tea (especially cheaper brands).

      --
      which is totally what she said
    139. Re:Sugar by Politburo · · Score: 1

      It's said that cats cannot taste sweets, but this is pop science distillation of the actual reality. As the article explains, they do taste it, just not through the same mechanism that we do. Nearly every cat owner has anecdotes about their pet liking something sweet.

    140. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess what, cutting off HFCS does you no good if you replace it with cane sugar or lard [...]

      Why does lard get such a bad rep? It has less saturated fat than butter and has never contained trans fats. We are better off spreading lard on our toast than we are butter or most margarine.

    141. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is that sucrose provides half sucrose half fructose.

      One of those words is not right. I'm pretty sure that sucrose is 100% sucrose.

    142. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIW, cat food should contain a small amount of plant matter. Virtually all carnivores eat the stomach contents of their prey--which is a big reason why meat is >70% of a cat's natural diet* but 100%.

      *The 70% thing is about classification as a hypercarnivore, not me trying to be close to the actual number.

    143. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HFCS is bad for you, but there's nothing special about it vis-a-vis cane sugar. Or agave nectar, or honey, for that matter.

      Except that, thanks to US subsidies, it's much cheaper than sugar or honey or agave nectar, so manufacturers mix it in like water.

    144. Re:Sugar by John+Bokma · · Score: 1

      It's not only the kind of food lab animals are getting but I assume that they are fed regularly; fed as in overfed. I keep scorpions and most people I know who keep them feed them much more frequently than I do. Yet mine are doing well. Moreover, I am quite convinced that overfeeding them shortens their live span. Additionally, I often encounter tarantulas in the wild, and most don't look as round and well fed as ones kept in the hobby.

    145. Re:Sugar by skids · · Score: 1

      That's a few hours of not eating. This can result in a lot less net calorie intake, if you can handle the crash and eat slow at the end instead of nomming.

      Note that I said "if you can" because willpower is a function of biology, not magic, as many here seem to believe.

    146. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could just NOT eat all the candies. And ignore your damn hunger. Stupid monkey body doesnt know whats good for it.

    147. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your body makes you feel "full" or "hungry" based on how full your stomach is, not what is in it.

      Wow, somebody doesn't understand the ghrelin/leptin feedback loop and how it works in satiety.

      Oversimplified for your benefit, since you're a novice:

      ghrelin = "i'm hungry" hormone. Stimulated by low blood sugar & low glycogen.

      Leptin = "i'm full" hormone. Release stimulated by food intake. High carb diets have been linked to obesity and weight gain (via leptin resistance - the body stops registering the 'i'm full' signal, making it easier to overeat).

      HFCS (and other refined carbs) cause massive swings in your blood sugar & glycogen stores because they're absorbed so quickly, and because we consume them in such massive quantities. This intake sooner or later creates insulin resistance (see: diabetes, type 2) - which has a strong correlation to obesity.

      So you have obesity & diabetes pairing together; you have a massive increase in sugar and carb intake (HFCS among those sources, but certainly not the only culprit); and you have satiety hormones which are affected by your blood sugar levels.

      Yep, nothing but hippy bullshit - your body doesn't care if you've eaten carbs or fat or protein, it only matters that "something" is in your stomach. Except that's not the case at all, and there's tons of compelling data showing that diets high in refined carbs are at the heart of most of the problems we have with obesity and diabetes today in the western world.

    148. Re:Sugar by skids · · Score: 1

      The rise in diabetes, heart disease, and liver damage, are seeming to indicate that fructose consumption IS in fact reaching levels that are manifesting toxic effects

      The whole point of TFA is you cannot blame obesity on any one factor. The rise in diabetes, heart disease, and liver damage are plausibly and with a good amount of evidence tied to an obesity epidemic, the cause of which is multfaceted. Given the number of plausible causes, how much a role fructose metabolism plays in that epidemic is quite probaby in the single digits percentagewise. So no, obesity is not a reliable indicator of an epidemic of overconsumption of fructose. This is why people who report on fructose consumption rates actually use evidence of the actual rates of said consumption, not circular logic.

    149. Re:Sugar by skids · · Score: 1

      Yeah I'm sure the biologists studying this effect didn't think of that at all. They must not read Slashdot and were thus deprived of your wisdom.

    150. Re:Sugar by somersault · · Score: 1

      But if you eat a lot of fat or protein, you feel satiated much more fully, and don't crash.. in fact I pretty much was never hungry when I tried eating low carb. I had to force myself to eat at mealtimes.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    151. Re:Sugar by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      lol

      fructose is just a disaccharide, its technically a more complex carb chain than glucose (monosaccharide). do you mean high fructose corn syrup? you're sort of right. typically what you see is HFCS55 which is 55% fructose and 41% glucose. to put it in perspective, granulated sugar is 50/50 fructose/glucose. so HFCS is only marginally more fructose than regular sugar, so you're wrong. but you're also right, because sugar, hfcs and all the other high glycemic carbs are what's really causing this problem.

      LOL indeed. Fructose is a monosaccharide: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fructose "Fructose, or fruit sugar, is a simple monosaccharide" just like glucose. They're isomers of each other. Sucrose is a disaccharide, consisting of a glucose and a fructose, 50% of each. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucrose "The molecule is a disaccharide composed of the monosaccharides glucose and fructose"
      Sheesh.

      I think it's the 'lol' that particularly annoys me when people say things that are just flat-out wrong.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    152. Re:Sugar by dragon-file · · Score: 1

      Correlation is not the same as Causality. Just an FYI

      --
      Whenever a player quits EVE to go play WoW, the Average IQ of both games increase.
    153. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ....and, Cuba has lots of sugar. But the land of the free is still mad at Cuba for actions 50+ years ago, so the country remains embargoed and impoverished. Russia, China, Vietnam? They're all good buddies now, lots of forgiveness to go around. Cuba? Fuckem.

      Well, it is a sign of great wealths hoarded and fat corruption money spent thanks to Cuba being under embargo.

    154. Re:Sugar by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      So your response is to build a big fucking straw man? I never once mentioned organic, GMO, or traditionally grown foods. Nor did the parent post.

      The discussion was regarding processed and/or synthetic foods. Those foods contain all kinds of great stuff. such as insanely high sodium, butylated hydroxytoluene, byutylated hydroxyanisole, chemically hydrogenated fat, etc. Nutrients that get broken down/diluted when processed. Minerals that get added in (for nutrition), in non-biosoluble form. Much of this could be done away with, but it would cost more, decrease shelf life, and lower profits.

      Still feeling good about your comprehension skills?

    155. Re:Sugar by skids · · Score: 1

      There is NO evidence of an obesity rise in WILD stocks of ANY of these animals.

      [citation needed]

      What do humans and lab animals have in common ? Diets filled with processed and manufactured foods.

      AND, if you RTFA, a controlled temperature environment, exposure to artificial light, parents that have been on the same caloric regime, exposure to various industrial chemicals, exposure to pathogens, inherited microflora, and other such factors.

      Not for nothing but do you really think lab feed isn't pretty well standardized. I mean, do you really think professional biologists just don't care what the aminals on whom their results depend are eating? Do they also take them home and let them run around on the carpet and feed them cheetos and let them watch TV?

    156. Re:Sugar by houghi · · Score: 1

      Added to that limited movement. When I see how much I myself walk around, it is very easy to understand why I am fat.
      Just look at old pictures. The one thing that you miss is cars.

      Where it used to be that every family had a car (and before that only the rich ones) now every person has a car. I noticed the difference why I used to take public transport and then buying a car.

      I live very near a station, and work very near a station, but still it would add up to about an hour a day, including the wandering around at the station for the train to come.

      I eat the same, but use less energy now, so now I am fat (and have myself to blame for it).

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    157. Re:Sugar by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

      Very simply food manufacturers removed the fat in the 70's and replaced it with huge amounts of sugar. The problem with sugar is the brain doesn't see it as nutrition thus it doesn't suppress your appetite when you eat sugar filled foods.

      Please. I am so sick of the fat deniers. This is one of the myths that's causing the problem. Sure sugar can make you fatter, but guess what, eating fat makes you fat faster because, here's the kicker, it's already fat! So you think your body converts sugar to fat, but fat to what, muscle? Argh! This is just an excuse to keep eating the foods you like and maybe lose a couple of pounds because you've cut your calories slightly.

      Look people. The medical community doesn't want to get to the source of the issue because it can lead to people massively abusing the drugs that work. Mod me down, call me crazy, but here is the real issue. Feeling good. People overeat because it releases dopamine that makes them feel good. Some people are naturally depressed, and it's their way of coping. Some use it as a crutch to get through daily problem. "I was upset so I went home and at a pint of ice cream."

      What drug is pretty much guaranteed to help you lose weight? Wellbutrin. Why? Is increases dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain to help people with depression. And you know what? They eat less, because they no longer need that bag of chips or pint of ice cream to help them when they are feeling blue.

      So why not just give everyone dopamine drugs? Because people would abuse them. They will take the drugs, and still overeat, and feel that much happier! The reason that diets fail is that people get depressed when they don't have that dopamine rush from food. What foods? First is fatty foods. Second is sugary foods.

      Richard Simmons got this right a long time ago. The trick to losing weight is to improve your mood. Some exercise helps, and it's more than burning calories through activity. Social interactions help. If you go back to abusing food to get your dopamine fix, you'll slide right back into over eating.

      I'm not saying that everyone can be skinny. There are exomorphs and endomorphs. There are Masai and Samoans. I'm talking about maintaining a healthy weight, not being "model" thin. Sure, keep a few extra pounds on. That's not unhealthy. But people are 40, 50, hell 100 pounds overweight, and we overlook it.

      So keep eating your fat burgers without the buns to keep your mood up. I know I can't convince you that you are wrong, since that would mean taking away your happy pills. I've seen people act violently when I suggest that they should not eat that last piece of pizza. But maybe I can convince a few people that you are a lying bastard in denial.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    158. Re:Sugar by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      Water is a poison, as is oxygen. Actually, glucose is also a poison by these standards.

      Yes, they are. But as always, it's the dose that makes the poison. You can die from drinking too much water, breathing an atmosphere that's too rich in oxygen, or consuming too much sucrose. Of course, you can also suffer ill effects short of death with lower doses and can suffer no harm at all with even lower doses.

      The real question is whether or not fructose is regularly consumed at levels that cause negative health effects. Evidence says that it is.

      When you take a common food staple and label is as a poison at the beginning of your argument you lose all credibility.

      I won't say all credibility if you actually read the argument, but I would accuse the GP of hyperbole and of overly dramatic presentation.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    159. Re:Sugar by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      > Given the number of plausible causes, how much a role fructose metabolism plays in that epidemic
      > is quite probaby in the single digits percentagewise. So no, obesity is not a reliable indicator of an
      > epidemic of overconsumption of fructose. This is why people who report on fructose consumption
      > rates actually use evidence of the actual rates of said consumption, not circular logic.

      So you never thought to look at the sugar/fructose numbers did you. I am not in any way saying that obesity proves fructose increase in the diet. Fructose in the average diet HAS increased significantly over time. (and sucrose contributes fructose in its breakdown, so while fructose is the "poison" it doesn't mean that sucrose isn't)

      Combine that with what we know about fructose, AND the fact that there is correlation between the rise of sugar intake and obesity and that we have evidence that fructose increases appetite and calorie consumption beyond the calories that it contributes (studies have shown people who drink a soda before a meal actually eat more calories during the meal) and there is some serious reason to suspect not just correlation but causation.

      I suspect if we wanted to put some rough percentages on the contribution to the problem, sugar is likely more in the mid double digits.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    160. Re: Sugar by smaddox · · Score: 2

      Set aside 90 minutes to watch this video: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&desktop_uri=/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

      I promise you won't regret it.

    161. Re:Sugar by adisakp · · Score: 1

      And it pisses me off every time I go shopping for cat chow that I have to pay literally twice as much to get cat food that doesn't have 15-25% added carbs in it. Cat food should not have any carbs, except what comes incidental to whatever kind of horse they use as the basic ingredient. And you think you can't go wrong buying tinned more-or-less fresh meat for fluffy? Nope. Many brands even add sugar to that.

      Gourmet / Veterinary Cat food costs $2.00 by the can or more. Tuna regularly goes on sale by me for 2 cans for $1 or 3 cans for $2. You can get 3-4 cans of tuna which doesn't have carbs or sugar for the price of one can of veterinary cat food. If you're worried about micronutrients for your cat, add a drop of feline liquid multivitamins to the can of tuna (you can get a 100 serving bottle for around $10 so it adds $0.10 per day).

    162. Re:Sugar by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      If you want to know the reason, it's because lots of voters in Florida hate Cuba (they floated across the ocean on a lousy raft, after all). And Florida happens to be an important state for elections. Sometimes a few thousand votes can make a huge difference. So no president has been willing to risk changing things, whether it makes sense or not. Electorally, it doesn't make sense to change things.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    163. Re: Sugar by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Yes, more sugar = more tasty = people eat more = people buy more, a perverse incentive for the food industry.

      That has nothing to do with HFCS specifically though, except that it's cheaper than most other forms and so amplifies the effect.

      On the bright side I've noticed that stevia is finally beginning to be used in some processed foods, suggesting that the sugar industry is losing it's vicelike grip on the US, and that should help things considerably. An intense natural sugar-free sweetener that requires minimal preparation for most purposes and has many decades of consumption history in Asia, what's not to love? Well I suppose there's the fact that it can possibly cause problems for people with pre-existing kidney (or was it liver?) problems, but for the general population...

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    164. Re:Sugar by adisakp · · Score: 1

      Another cheap source of protein for cats: eggs. You can get a dozen for just over $1 and cats love raw eggs scrambled with a little milk. If you're worried about salmonella in raw eggs, you can pasteurize (but not cook) the eggs using a crockpot and a dorkfoods sous vide controller -- and the DSV can be used to cook great meals for yourself as well..

    165. Re:Sugar by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      ...nobody here was talking about farming techniques. Your original post (and what parent poster was replying to) was about processed/manufactured foods. Not that many people (outside a few select damn dirty hippies) have a big issue with conventionally grown vegetables vs organically grown vegetables. That's not where our fatty mcfatfats come from - if only we could get them to *eat* a god damn vegetable.

      The nutritional value of a TV dinner, box of mac n cheese, or McDouble in no way compares to the nutritional value of a variety of fruits and vegetables - organically grown or otherwise. They are typically extremely high in salts and sugars with a high caloric density. Is it possible to make manufactured food that is good for you? I suppose it's possible, but the demographic that goes after manufactured food for every meal isn't going to be comparing nutritional information on the boxes.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    166. Re: Sugar by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      I think the main issue is they are adding more HFCS to everything, not less. This is what is affecting us, and it's getting worse as time goes on.

      While HFCS is worming its way into SO many food products..true, it can be avoided largely, by not buying and eating processed foods.

      Not a lot of HFCS they can put into fresh tomatoes, onions, beans..etc.

      :)

      Basically, if you learn to read labels, and avoid pretty much the entire set of center aisles in the grocery store, you can avoid a lot of HFCS. Get the raw ingredients and COOK your own food.

      I'll enjoy it more, be more healthy, and often if done correctly, you can SAVE money. Yes, save money.

      I look through the weekly circulars for the various grocery stores in my area, and I hit usually 2-3 of them weekly when I go shopping. I buy what's on sale and plan my menus for the week accordingly.

      But you do have to read labels too. But some food manufacturers are listening. I found the Lea And Perrin's worchestershire stopped putting HFCS in their sauce..and just the other day, saw some yogurt had stopped HFCS use in their products.

      I read my bread labels..and choose the ones that are 100% whole wheat, and no HFCS.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    167. Re:Sugar by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 0

      Let's face the facts, we have lots of Radiation in various forms around us now.

      Not really. Not compared to what we used to receive from the giant fusion reactor we're orbiting, and when we all lived outside and got constantly bombarded by it. Sorry; you need to find another bogeyman.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    168. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sugar doesn't make you fat. Marriage makes you fat. [...]

      What's the difference between a bachelor and a married man? .

      A bachelor can do a proper cost-benefit analysis and decide not to cuddle up to a ticking time bomb in a system extremely biased against him.

    169. Re:Sugar by Sentrion · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that according to TFA obesity is affecting animals as well as humans. But you're right - corn is the main culprit - specifically our monocultural industrial practice of including corn as THE major ingredient in most processed foods from frozen TV dinners to animal feed. The fast growing cycle and ease with which corn can be harvested favors this crop for these industrial processes. The feed is often formulated to encourage livestock to eat more of it since then the meat will have a more "marbelized" distribution of fat into the muscles. Sedentary lifestyle is probably a cofactor, given that in our industrial age, both humans and animals are forced to spend most of their time confined to cube-shaped structures with little opportunity to walk or run significant distances. Most animals should be playing, pursuing prey, fleeing predators, migrating, and consuming a variety of fresh whole foods. Before becoming "civilized" humans also used to hunt, fish, gather, migrate, play sports (occassionally violent - we'll save that for a later discussion), and eat a variety of fresh whole foods. But now that we are "civilized" and "technologically advanced" we have jobs sitting at a desk most of the day, we drink beverages containing corn syrup (which can only be derived from corn by mixing with hydrochloric acid), or bevarages distilled from corn, and we eat meals consisting of corn chips, goods baked with corn meal, corn flour, corn starch, corn oil (which cannot simply be squeezed out of the corn - it has to be solvent extracted using hexane or 2-methylpentane (isohexane)), or other corn byproducts. Then we serve it up with a slab of corn-feed beef or other livestock that is literally over-fed corn, especially in the final weeks of life the livestock are fattened on corn, sometimes corn and molasses, to the point where the animal is about to die from a diabetic coma by the time it is slaughtered. To make the meal balanced, we might add a few other vegetables, but we'll coat these in a corn batter and deep fry them in corn oil to make them more appetizing. Or maybe we'll make a salad and pour vinegar and corn oil over it. Corn-based feed is the basis for most of the milk, eggs, and even farm-raised fish. There's no escaping the corn - it's even in your gastank, and soon your plastic goods will be coming from corn (which are some of the few uses of corn I actually welcome).

      Or you can visit me and my farm and eat fresh, naturally grown, and sometimes even wild foraged fruits and vegetables, pastured chickens that eat mostly grasshoppers and garden scraps, eggs from the same chickens - eggs with shells so strong they don't break when you drop them, grass feed lamp and goat - and easily digestable goat milk, yogurt, and cheese (no added hormones, antibiotics), fish caught in local streams, and a moderate variety of starchy plants including potatoes, sunflower chokes, whole wheat, quinoa, and occassionally a fresh ear of non-GMO corn. I would love to sell my excess healthy and nutritious eggs, diary, meat, fish, and wild game, but laws and regulations, mainly in the name of "food safety" (and some valid game laws - given the impact of poaching on game populations) either forbid or make it prohibitively expensive for me to do so on the small scale that I raise and harvest these goods. But there are no restrictions on preparing and serving such foods to myself, my family, and I can legally give away to friends and serve at church dinners.

      While on the farm, you can help chase a chicken or a goat for slaughter, dig post holes, shovel manure, or participate in any number of physical activities that a farm requires - and I guarantee you could ditch your gym membership. This effort is only part-time for me, as I am in an office during the day. Given the high cost of land due to our unchecked population growth made possible by our industrial food production and distribution system, I understand that not everyone can do this. But it makes for a better, healthier, and more satisfying hobby than locking one's self in a room to play video games or wasting away in front of a TV screen.

    170. Re:Sugar by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      The question is, WHICH processes are to blame?

      I don't believe that's the question at all. There isn't a single silver bullet that will solve our fat person problem. We have a whole host of factors to look at:

      - Higher availability of food means people eat more - Automation and machines means people exercise less - Manufactured foods with high sugar and salt contents are processed differently by our bodies - Higher-density foods give more calories for any given volume or mass

      ...and that's just what I can think of in the last five minutes. Ultimately, it all comes down to "we eat too much and we don't exercise enough" - there are dozens of reasons behind that statement. I'm a big fan of researching and getting good data to back up that reasoning, but it seems everybody wants the "one true answer" when it simply doesn't exist.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    171. Re:Sugar by Drogo007 · · Score: 1

      What???

      You mean there might be a REASON to use iodized salt instead of all-natural, feel-good-warm-and-fuzzy Gourmet Sea Salt??

      I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I say...

    172. Re:Sugar by krazy1 · · Score: 1

      I don't know where you are located, in the San Francisco Framer's market (the Saturday one by I280), sometimes they have vendors that sell waxy corn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waxy_corn It is not sweet, like most corn available. I even seen this kind of corn in Los Angeles.

    173. Re:Sugar by Ost99 · · Score: 1

      HFCS and regular sugar are similar, but there's still a difference in how the body responds.
      Tests on animals have shown significant damage from intake of HFCS not present in animals consuming the same amount of regular sugar.
      Why? Don't think they know yet.

      Regular sugar contains fructose and glucose in the form of sucrose. HFCS contains free fructose and glucose and also contains various traces from the starch -> sugar conversion.

      Does the hydrolysis in the body that breaks up sucrose also trigger something else that reduces the effect of fructose in the liver?
      Does sucrase regulate hydrolysis of sucrose and thereby reduces the amount of glucose and fructose available to the body compared to HFCS?
      Does HFCS somehow disturb sucrase production?

      Is is possible that the HFCS still contains enough trace amounts of the amino acids used to break down the starch to create a similar reaction in the food consumed together with the HFCS?
      Are the proteins present after the HFCS process harmful?

      --
      ---- Sig. gone.
    174. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who knows - they could be buying the exact same product under the exact same brand and that product could have had a radical change in it's composition without anybody ever really having noticed.

      As someone who has allergies, this is very true. I occasionally read the ingredients of products I buy regularly because it's extremely common for a company to change the formula and NOT change anything on the packaging except the ingredients list.

    175. Re:Sugar by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Thinking about it, except for royalty/1% types, most of humanity has had exposure to only small amounts of natural sugars (honey and fruits) up until the 1500's when sugar beet and sugar cane production increased. It's only the last 500 years that a large percentage of people have had easy access to all the various sugars. Just my supposition but I'm thinking our bodies aren't really evolved for it.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    176. Re: Sugar by smaddox · · Score: 1

      Your absolutely correct about sugar and HFCS being almost identical. The point is that both are unhealthy in large quantities. I'm going to keep posting this presentation, in the hopes that people actually watch it: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdBnniua6-oM

      It discusses in detail why it is the high volumes of fructose contained in our foods and beverages (in the form of sugar or HFCS) which are causing obesity and related disorders. In small quantities, they are fine, but in large quantities they lead to disease.

    177. Re:Sugar by skids · · Score: 1

      It boils down to calories, if yoour body gets more calories than it needs and/or it gets calories faster than it needs then it has to do something with them.

      Obviously you didn't RTFA, but what should we expect on /.

      If you had, you'd have noticed that it primarily is concerned with debunking two things: 1) the idea that it all boils down to willpower and 2) the idea that it is "simple physics"

      To wit, some chemicals and other things we are easily exposed to in today's world will cause you to store fat *instead* of giving you energy. Thus decreasing your ability to demonstrate any willpower. People that do not know that this can happen obviously think that if they were starving they would be jumping around and doing somersalts, instead of sitting in a chair trying to get their arm to move. They are deluded.

    178. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So sucrose is 50% fructose. If you use sucrose It splits 50-50 into glucose and fructose. 10% of the glucose and 90% of the fructose go to your liver... or about 55% of the total you ingested. If you use fructose, thats the full 90%.

      Since it supresses appetite, you tend to eat more. A kid given a soda before a meal tends to eat more during the meal than a kid who doesn't.

      wait ... You're saying appetite SUPPRESSANTS make you eat more? Please, provide a reference for this, I think all of the nutrionists and weight loss specialists would love to know about it.

    179. Re:Sugar by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      Exactly. There was an article in National Geographic on our sugar lust recently. It says that the substitution of fat and cholesterol led to greatly increased use of sugar in many foodstuffs. The consequences have been dire after a decade or so, and everywhere that follows this trend.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    180. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obvious fact: Our food consumption involves high carbohydrate foods. We are feeding the same kinds of food to animals in zoos and our pets - i.e. a bag of marmoset food is just as bad as a bag of dog food.

      Contrary to the marketing hype from governments of the world who are in the game to prop up markets and help farmers make a livelihood, we need very little if any breads. We certainly should eat them in a minimally processed state without the enriched ingredients. Whole wheat is far better for us than enriched processed (bleached) wheat flour.

      Food in its simplest form is what we need to eat.
      Just take a stroll down any aisle of a grocer in America and fill your cart with products with starch-free foods or without added sugar, natural products. How many aisles did you actually have to skip? From my experience, 90% of the store has products we should not be eating. I know this because I had this very problem after going on the (Doctor ordered) South Beach Diet. During the first 15 days it was quite difficult to locate foods with sugar or starch, but I did learn to avoid certain aisles.

      Now I can go to the store and not even walk the cereal aisle. Instead, I spend more time picking out good produce, meat and dairy products including eggs. And to tell the truth, I don't miss all the money spent on those high starch products.

      I lost 31 pounds during the first 3 months of this diet and for the most part have continued to avoid these foods, though I do have some bread a couple times a week.

      Disclaimer: I am in no way associated with the South Beach Diet plan book or publisher - I'm just someone who has benefited from it.

      v/r,
      nomasteryoda

    181. Re:Sugar by skids · · Score: 1

      The wild speculation is concluding that that captivity diet has changed over the decades. Because if it hasn't, you have to have another explanation for why they are gaining weight.

    182. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since it supresses appetite, you tend to eat more. A kid given a soda before a meal tends to eat more during the meal than a kid who doesn't.

      I think you mean that it suppresses satitation. Suppressing appetite would mean you eat less.

    183. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except to get honey in ancient times, you had to go fight the bees.

    184. Re:Sugar by smaddox · · Score: 1

      What this reminds me of is the bullshit claims about global warming on Mars and Pluto. As it happens I knew enough physics to immediately see that as bullshit (Mars receives half as much sunlight as Earth and Pluto less that 1/1000)...

      I realize this is off topic, but are you claiming that the greenhouse effect is not important in determining the surface temperature of a planet? Because the evidence is overwhelming that it is. It's actually fairly easy to estimate what the surface temperature of the Earth would be if our atmosphere did not act as a greenhouse, and it would be well below the freezing point of water, making life impossible (it's simply (energy in - energy out)/boltzman constant = surface temperature, where energy out is determined by the Stefanâ"Boltzmann law at a given temperature. The equation can be iteratively solved.). Also, without the runaway greenhouse effect, Venus would be much more temperate. Mars has less atomsphere than Venus or Earth, but it still has a significant atmosphere, and the greenhouse effect is still important. As for Pluto, I don't know enough about the planetoid to comment.

    185. Re:Sugar by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      marmosets are among the greatest consumers of manufactured foods.

      My local McD's is full of them, I swear!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    186. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AFAIK HFCS is just as bad a sucrose, as both are digested into their glucose and fructose components. HFCS is just a bit sweeter in taste.

      (acronyms, wee!)

      HFCS 55 is sweeter in taste (allowing the use of less total sugar to achieve the same sweetness), but that's not the type of HFCS used in most products, HFCS 42 is, which requires the use of slightly more sugar for the same sweetness as beet sugar or cane sugar. The sugars do taste different, though, ketchup is probably the easiest product to notice the taste difference in.

      Regardless, HFCS is bad for you inasmuch as sugar is bad for you. You really shouldn't be consuming that much sugar. Avoiding HFCS, as long as you don't replace everything with cane sugar snack food, will probably help you lose some weight in that you'll have altered your diet to be eating more actual food (the stuff they tend to put around the outside ring of the store in the US). If most of your shopping cart is full of stuff from the center aisels you probably have a poor diet, even if it isn't all cookies.

    187. Re:Sugar by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      There is NO evidence of an obesity rise in WILD stocks of ANY of these animals.

      I'm pretty sure the article said, "As were laboratory macaques, chimpanzees, vervet monkeys and mice, as well as domestic dogs, domestic cats, and domestic and feral rats from both rural and urban areas." (emphasis added)

      I'm pretty sure feral rats are wild animals, though they do feed off of human food. Of course, if you want to eliminate any species that eats human food, you're also going to reduce or eliminate almost all the other potential influences listed in the article -- regulated indoor temperature, excessive light exposure, exposure to industrial chemicals, exposure to the Ad-36 virus or to M. smithii, etc.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    188. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a recent study a control group of mice given equal calories of glucose and fructose as the study group was given in HFCS. The HFCS mice gained a large amount of weight in fat, where the control group saw no net weight gain. How and why HFCS causes weight gain isn't understood, as logically it breaks down into the same chemicals, but the body does treat it differently. One theory is that the HFCS has more unbonded sugars, and that might make them easier for the body to store as fat.

    189. Re:Sugar by bkk_diesel · · Score: 1

      My biggest complaint about HFCS isn't the syrup, per se, it's that Monsanto and ADM have ruined my corn. They've modified the corn to be sweeter, so that they can get more HFCS and ethanol from it. I used to love corn on the cob, but given that Sandy and I have tried to stop eating so much sugar, it's sickeningly sweet to us now. We buy locally-grown, unmodified corn whenever possible. Rarely from a supermarket.

      Everything you said may be true, but I don't think the reason that supermarket corn is sweeter has much to do with HFCS or ethanol. I believe that the kind of corn used for the production of those is almost inedible and not what you would buy in any market for people food. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong or mod me up if I'm right.

    190. Re:Sugar by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1

      While I am not obese, I am a bit overweight and have had a very hard time losing it. Do I eat out? Rarely and when I do, it's usually to nicer places that serve organically grown produce and free range cattle. I'm not a deserts guy and rarely eat sweets or drink soda. I usually cook at home and make most everything from scratch, straight from the produce isle, be it pasta sauces, salsas, soups, cheese (queso fresca) or bread. Hell, I even roast my own coffee. The only sugar I have around the house is brown sugar and a small box lasts quite a while. And for oil I use olive oil, while still a fat, is rather healthy.

      So -- where is this excess amount of sugar coming from? Perhaps the rampant use of high sucrose syrup is not as culpable for the obesity epidemic as you may think.

      Personally, I think it's aliens. It's always aliens, ancient or otherwise.

    191. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Comment by PotatoPro: to the best of our knowledge, there are (August 2013) STILL no GMO potatoes marketed for human consumption, however this is likely to change within 3 years. We will make an update in the referenced newsletter reflecting this.

    192. Re:Sugar by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      you'll increase your fructose intake 10% if you eat the same quantity as "sugar"

      5%, I think you meantersay.

    193. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sugar doesn't make you fat. Marriage makes you fat. [...]

      What's the difference between a bachelor and a married man?

      The bachelor comes home, looks into the fridge, finds nothing interesting, and goes to bed.

      The husband comes home, looks in the bedroom...

      And then? Don't leave us hanging. Does he find a delicious pizza?

    194. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. it's 43%-55%

      "The most widely used varieties of HFCS are: HFCS 55 (mostly used in soft drinks), approximately 55% fructose and 42% glucose; and HFCS 42 (used in beverages, processed foods, cereals, and baked goods), approximately 42% fructose and 53% glucose. HFCS-90, approximately 90% fructose and 10% glucose, is used in small quantities for specialty applications but primarily is used to blend with HFCS 42 to make HFCS 55." - wikipedia

    195. Re:Sugar by Zouden · · Score: 1

      HFCS is 55% fructose, compared to sucrose which is 50% fructose. So what's the big deal?

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
    196. Re:Sugar by filthpickle · · Score: 1

      People in the comments to that story, before it started flaming up, say that lab mice are absolutely not fed the same things they were 40 years ago. I am, of course, not taking that as the truth, but I would like to know more about that if any /.ers know about this. That is the best point in the whole story, IMO

    197. Re:Sugar by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Certainly processed food can be healthy.
      One problem is that the unhealthy stuff is both addictive and cheap to make. And so, the bulk of the marketing dollars goes to promoting it, especially to children.

    198. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Process: "Perform a series of mechanical or chemical operations on (something) in order to change or preserve it"

      A cut tomato is indeed "processed". It had a mechanical operation (cutting) performed on it.

    199. Re:Sugar by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      ... But farmers aren't the ones slipping big bills into Congress' g-strings.

      You vastly underestimate the agro-industrial Farm Lobby. They are not the driving force behind the peculiar shunning of Cuba (tariffs keep Brazilian sugar out of the U.S. fine, no need for high-octane politics), but do not underestimate the muscle the "farmers" have in Washington.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    200. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cane sugar isnt glucose; its a disaccharide composed of a glucose linked to a fructose, ie roughly 50% of each.

      Guess what the most common forumations of HFCS are?
      55 fructose - 42 glucose
      42 fructose - 53 glucose

      Oh look, one of those has a higher glucose:fructose ratio than "healthy" sucrose.

      Its been said a million times: HFCS is a bogeyman. Sometimes, in some situations, it can be less healthy, but the problem is one of quantity consumed, not what particular type of sugar youre eating. I would suggest that one of the causes of obesity is these stupid food fads that promise that X is the miracle cure to weight, and you can do whatever you want as long as you eliminate X. Guess what, cutting off HFCS does you no good if you replace it with cane sugar or lard or tons of carbs or...

    201. Re:Sugar by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      Approximately 8% of the human genome is actually leftover virus material. Organisms that have genes from other, unrelated organisms aren't really anything new. In fact, I would wager that some of the things that we're doing to foods happen occasionally and randomly by mutation, but are either not viable in a normal environment or are eaten and destroyed before they can spread.

      There's no good reason to believe GMO is necessarily safe or dangerous based on what a company tells you, I agree. But I don't think that the widespread fear of the whole field of study is warranted, either.

      There's room for the science, but at usual, what we really need is a strong scientific regulatory framework administered by governments acting in our best interests. A pipe dream, I know...

    202. Re:Sugar by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      Another area worth researching is pesticides and other chemicals in HFCS. Pesticides in HFCS have been linked to Colony Collapse Disorder in honeybees, of all things, as beekeepers commonly feed their bees HFCS. If that is the case, it could be a plausible reason why some studies show HFCS to be more harmful than plain sucrose.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    203. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it pisses me off every time I go shopping for cat chow that I have to pay literally twice as much to get cat food that doesn't have 15-25% added carbs in it

      Dry kibble can't be extruded without carbs. You'll have to go with canned cat food if you want to avoid carbs for your cat, which is healthier, but more expensive and a pain.

    204. Re:Sugar by dandelionblue · · Score: 1

      A glass of fruit juice is every bit as bad, and does the same liver damage, as a shot of whiskey.

      So fruit juice causes ascites, hepatic encephalopathy, deranged clotting (don't point to a warfarin interaction here, I mean independent increases in clotting time), hepatic flap, Korsakoff's psychosis and fatty liver disease? I would really like to see some citations on that one.

    205. Re:Sugar by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      HFCS and regular sugar are similar, but there's still a difference in how the body responds.

      That difference is insignificant. Most studies show no difference, and the one yale (princeton?) study that DOES show a difference, aside from all of its major issues, showed far more that its quantity that makes the hugest difference.

      Is is possible that the HFCS still contains enough trace amounts of the amino acids used to break down the starch to create a similar reaction in the food consumed together with the HFCS?

      Maybe, but I submit that the people who worry about whether they were getting HFCS or cane sugar would be far better off simply focusing on getting less "sugars" in general.

    206. Re:Sugar by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Lab animals arent pets, and it is indeed wild speculation to suppose that theyre getting the same chow that you get at the pet store.

    207. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've been told that HFCS is 55% fructose but it is actually closer to 65%. Has been for years. http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/45287-study-hfcs-in-soda-is-65-fructose/

    208. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      I agree that there is crossing of boundaries. That said, natural selection would remove bad things from a system in many cases. Where that was no the case, over time we would see what is bad vs. good cross over. GMO foods in particular have very little testing. In addition, natural selection would not remove a toxic trait from something.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    209. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Since it suppresses appetite, you tend to eat more." Stupid.

    210. Re:Sugar by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Ok I overstated. You are likely correct except....Fatty liver disease. Excess sugar is implicated in that, and fruit juices are an excellent source of excess sugar: http://blog.liverdoctor.com/2012/05/what-causes-fatty-liver-fatty-liver.html

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    211. Re:Sugar by Pope · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine once complained that every time he started dating someone, he ended up gaining weight. I replied "Well, it's all that pussy you're eating!"

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    212. Re:Sugar by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Yes I only admitted that and had two other posts point it out, one of which I even replied to and pointed out that I already admitted I got that backwards. Also, I fucked that up twice....moron

      Now that we have that cleared up, maybe there is a spelling or grammar error you would like to point out?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    213. Re:Sugar by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      The "Mars is warming too! And Pluto" thing was a transparent wink wink, nudge nudge argument to suggest that increased solar input was the explanation for warming both on Earth and there. Which is totally ridiculous - the increased solar input to warm Pluto half a degree would totally fry earth, no atmospheric modelling needed.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    214. Re:Sugar by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Well, maybe you should follow the links you cite.

      What?!? This is what your first link says:
      To the best of our knowledge there are still no GMO potatoes marketed for human consumption anywhere in the world

      And this is what your second link says:
      There are currently no transgenic potatoes marketed for human consumption.
      And this information is clearly marked as "updated August 2013".

      So both your links say the exact opposite of what you claim.

    215. Re:Sugar by Mister_Stoopid · · Score: 1

      If "sugars, fats and salt" are overused, what exactly do you think should be in processed foods? Just protein?

    216. Re:Sugar by Agronomist+Cowherd · · Score: 2

      How much do you drink? Most of our weight is water, and while most of the food we eat is also water, just retaining a gallon of water per day would add 56 pounds to your weight in a week. Some of that from a few pounds of food, some from drink, some absorbed through respiration. We aren't closed systems, only taking in what we eat under controlled conditions.

      --
      -DwS
    217. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The political twist: Sugar is cheap because of excessive subsides.

    218. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      genes that can not happen in nature

      And you think I'm ignorant? We just short-circuited a whole lot of evolutionary pressure with our results from GMO.

      Look, if you want to tell me that Monsanto is a thug of a company, I'm not going to argue with you. That doesn't make genetically modified stuff inherently bad.

    219. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry - how is 42F/53G HFCS? Perhaps just plain old Corn Syrup, but [citation needed] on it being a formulation of *HF*CS.

    220. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      It's not everywhere. There's only one brand - one! - at my local Fresh Market. None at Kroger. None at Wal-Mart. None at the local chains. A couple at the co-op. And Costco is a pretty hippie store - they're not everywhere, for starters.

      You can get plain, but getting full fat is a challenge. At least for me.

    221. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I make sauerkraut.

    222. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      We would have the same problems if the government chose to subsidize production of a different kind of sugar than HFCS.

    223. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      HFCS is barely more fructose than sucrose is; fructose is the primary sugar in honey and agave nectar. The only thing different about HFCS is that it's cheap.

    224. Re:Sugar by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      If you consume 100 units of sweetener daily, and change from one that has 50 units of fructose per 100 units (sucrose) to one that has 55 units of fructose (HFCS-55), are you not consuming 10% more fructose for the same quantity of sweetener?

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    225. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that's a highly reliable website. Why, the very first thing I saw was an article telling how Shaken Baby Syndrome results from vaccines, not parents. Forgive me if I don't scour the site.

      Sugars are not good for you. Avoid them in more than trace amounts.

    226. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      No, but processed foods should be a very limited part of your diet. There's nothing better for when you're hiking, or preparing for the apocalypse, which case you value the long shelf life and light weight. If the world goes to hell, I'll eat whatever I can get. But it's not as good for you as real food is.

    227. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Here in the US it's actually fairly easy to get a whole, seasoning-free (except a little salt) roast chicken at supermarkets. You can buy frozen broccoli florets and steam them for a nice side. Sainsbury's do a nice one in the UK - ate that several nights on a recent trip to London.

      Other than that and restaurants, I make my meals from scratch. Work cafeteria always has hamburgers without buns and sugar-free pickles if nothing else tickles my fancy (sweetened pickles seem more popular outside the US than in it - the big seller in the US is vinegar/dill/garlic only).

    228. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Please point out where I said "glucose". I said "cane sugar", which is sucrose. Fructose is the primary sugar in agave nectar and honey as well.

      Learn to read.

    229. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 2

      Because he responded to something I didn't say, and doesn't appear to know the difference between sucrose and glucose and which one is produced by cane. HFCS is compositionally almost indistinguishable from sucrose, which is what cane sugar is.

    230. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      He can't read. And I don't think he knows what glucose and sucrose are.

    231. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you suck at basic math. In 100 grams of sweetener, fructose goes from 50 grams to 55 grams. 10% increase.

    232. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      I eat the stuff all the time. You're better off spreading lard all over the inside of your mouth than putting it on toast.

    233. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ruffies just reduce metabolism and the ability to struggle. It's just chemistry. Nothing nefarious at all. Here. Have a snowcone.

    234. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I would explain to you how I read that wrong to arrive at that...but you don't care and it doesn't change the fact that I was wrong. Apologies to the GGP.

    235. Re:Sugar by Belial6 · · Score: 2

      While 100 pounds in a week sound exagerated, the human body is approximately 60% water. So, if right off the top, you could theoretically gain 100 lbs of weight by consuming 40 lbs of food. Now add in the fact that 60% is an approximation. Presumably there is some variance in the percentage of water that make up a human. Then add that by some accounts a very large percentage of the population is suffering from chronic dehydration. I am not making a claim, but if thyroid removal in some way triggers a persons body to store more water, this theoretical person could, instead of being below the 60% line, be over the 60% line.

      I am not agreeing to the 100 pounds in a week claimed by the parent poster, but I can certainly conceive of a universe where his claim is true. Thus calling it a ridiculous exaggeration out of hand seems like a pretty weak rebuttal. Particularly since his point would still stand if he had said 50 lbs in a month.

    236. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      This and this are two natural experiments.

    237. Re:Sugar by Pzychotix · · Score: 1

      It's hilarious that you linked the Taubes video as your source of information, and yet you're trying to argue that HFCS is any different from from sucrose. Go watch your video again. Beginning at 18m 20s. He explains very CLEARLY that the HFCS vs sucrose issue is a complete non-issue. That's his own words: "non-issue". "They are the same". If you're going to quote Taubes, know what he's saying first.

    238. Re:Sugar by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      It most certainly does. Look at the ingredients of Cat Chow.

      http://www.catchow.com/Products/Healthy-weight

    239. Re:Sugar by Pzychotix · · Score: 1

      The only real test that has shown significant differences between HFCS and sucrose is the Princeton study with rats, where they tried to show that the rats on HFCS gained more weight. Problem is that the study was done by a bunch of idiots and was executed very poorly. http://examine.com/faq/is-hfcs-high-fructose-corn-syrup-worse-than-sugar.html#summary3

    240. Re:Sugar by Pzychotix · · Score: 1

      You do realize that HFCS is simply independent molecules of glucose and fructose, sugars we freely absorb in the first place? Thinking that HFCS is some sort of magical processed sugar that the body has no idea how to utilize is just ridiculous and shows a complete lack of knowledge of basic chemistry and biology.

    241. Re:Sugar by Mister_Stoopid · · Score: 1

      Nothing we're talking about here is affecting EVERYONE. It's affecting the population as a whole, on a STATISTICAL level. That doesn't imply anything whatsoever about any given individual.

    242. Re:Sugar by Pzychotix · · Score: 1

      The "Princeton" study was done by a bunch of folks who can't do statistics or follow basic experimental control protocols. A basic critique of that study: http://examine.com/faq/is-hfcs-high-fructose-corn-syrup-worse-than-sugar.html#summary3

    243. Re:Sugar by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The rise in diabetes, heart disease, and liver damage, are seeming to indicate that fructose consumption IS in fact reaching levels that are manifesting toxic effects in the form of those diseases.

      Maybe. But there is surprisingly little evidence to support that hypothesis. I was unable to find a single controlled study, with either people or animals, that linked HFCS to obesity, if the HFCS was consumed instead of other sugar. If you search, you will find a LOT of conjecture, but almost no science. Furthermore, HFCS is an American thing. Most other countries don't consume much of it. Yet the obesity epidemic is a world-wide phenomenon. Mexico has a bigger obesity problem than America, but consumes far less fructose. Fructose may be part of the problem (or may not be), but it certainly isn't the only source of the problem.

    244. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      You can't read and comprehend a single sentence, and question someone else' credibility? I know the word "often" is difficult to understand, do you need someone to find the definition of the word for you?

      Skepticism is good, and I do question both titles and content of _any_ articles on the web. I still read to see what their point is, and suggest you do the same. For you though, I'd recommend you read it at least 3 or 4 times so that you catch on to everything.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    245. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      No, he's right: fructose and sucrose are toxic over the long term.
      You really should check out "sugar: the bitter truth".

      There are many studies that either completed recently or are on going which are confirming these findings.

    246. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      And the pink goo from McDonald's was just "beef" too right? Are you going to try and convince me that cooked food has the exact same nutritional value as raw foods next? Maybe that whole food processing thing is mind boggling to you.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    247. Re: Sugar by smaddox · · Score: 1

      You're mistakenly equating HFCS with fructose. Fructose is half of sucrose (refined sugar) and approximately half of HFCS. Of course swapping sucrose for HFCS doesn't change anything - they're nearly identical. The problem is that we consume so much fructose. If we only consumed glucose (the other half of sucrose and HFCS), there would be far fewer problems. However, glucose is much less sweat.

    248. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      Check again... fructose is metablozed differently than other sugars. It results in very little glucose (low on the GI) but very high triglycerides. Most of it ends up as fat, and a lot deposits on the liver.

    249. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      Fructose is bad, whether you get it from hfcs, sucrose or directly from fruit juice.

    250. Re: Sugar by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      I think stevia is just being used because it's the latest fad, a la "fat free" (but still loaded with calories), gluten free, Atkin's, etc., something that may have some value for _some_ people, but NOT for the vast majority of people.

      This isn't actually meant to be opposite to the last statement, but I always found it ironic that "fat free" sour cream has fewer calories than "light" sour cream. (Yes, I'm probably eating either of them with some higher calorie stuff, but this is one of the areas where I do think cutting out a few calories can be useful. That is, if it's close enough to the 'regular', I'd rather get the lower calorie.)

    251. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      That sounds like BS.
      The fructose and glucose found in hfcs are chemically identical to those found in other natural sources.
      Fructose isn't a problem because we can't metabolize it, it's a problem because most of it turns into fat instead of glucose.

    252. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      Fructose from other sources does the same thing. Less so when combined with fibre, apparently.

    253. Re:Sugar by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      All three of those are just fine as constituents of processed foods. It's just that they're used in too large of quantities.

      That's what "overused" means.

    254. Re:Sugar by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      "Processed" and "manufactured" are terms that are tossed out as if everyone knows what this is and agrees on that it's bad. What is in "processing" that is bad, it's never really spelled out. I hear vague things like "it removes the nutrients", which is bizarre because I can't think of any food supplier deciding to build a machine to remove nutrients. Similarly, people will talk about a giant corporation makind processed bread but then turn around and praise a small town bakery that makes loaves of bread; both are "manufacturing" a product and "processing" the food. Somehow we're supposed to understand that hand squeezing an orange makes nutritious juice is good but a machine that squeezes oranges is creating junk.

      Now there may be indeed some secret thing that's going on. But the upshot is that the more people use these incredibly vague terms and "common knowledge" the more smart people will ignore them. You can't say "processed foods are bad for you" continually without people being learning to ignore the nondescript mumbling. People need to be precise here, say "the bran is removed from the wheat grain before being used" which is fine but still ignores the local home town baker who does the same thing to make artisanal bread. Ask a specific question and you're told "they say it's bad for you."

      There's an implication that a big factory manufacturing is utterly unable to make something healthy and nutritious, even if they got rid of the nutrition sucking machine and stopped putting in additives.

    255. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      I guess you missed what I posted above yours. And the pink goo from McDonald's was just "beef" too right? Are you going to try and convince me that cooked food has the exact same nutritional value as raw foods next? Maybe that whole food processing thing is mind boggling to you.

      Sure, if you break everything down chemically and single out the glucose and fructose, they would be the same. The problem is, that we don't eat isolated proteins, sugars, or anything else. We are capable of digesting natural foods, and have how many years of evolution to show that we are pretty successful at it. We are not made to eat a single protein as a diet (for example), even though our bodies will extract one from a particular food.

      It's like looking at a massive differential equation and recognizing that X+2=5^3 is a component. That does not resolve the problem, nor does that small part of the equation do you a damn bit of good without the rest of the equation and it's solution.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    256. Re: Sugar by smaddox · · Score: 1

      Ahh, never heard that argument before, so didn't know what you were taking about.

      Carry on! Nothing to see here! ;-)

    257. Re: Sugar by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      You're mistakenly equating HFCS with fructose.

      No I am not. Almost nobody eats pure fructose, so no one is claiming that it is a problem. They are claiming that HFCS is the problem, and they are claiming it is a problem because of the fructose.

      The problem is that we consume so much fructose

      This is just conjecture. There is no evidence that fructose or HFCS is actually a problem.

    258. Re:Sugar by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      However there are people who are labeling cross bred varietals as GMO even when done naturally.

    259. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Actually they have more to lose than Monsanto or other large companies that could fall back on agriculture to make money. You are not really comparing apples to apples.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    260. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      You're making my point for me:
      Pink goo is bad precisely because:
      1. They add chemicals to it to kill bacteria
      2. If they didn't, the bacteria would make the food inedible.

      I.e. they're not the same chemicals as are in beef.

    261. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Pointing at the extremists does not invalidate my point.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    262. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      And how exactly to they inject fungus genetic material into corn? Massage and soft music?

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    263. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      Same with cooking:
      1. It changes the molecular structure of proteins.
      2. Changes sugars in various ways
      3. Often leaches out chemicals, leaving fewer nutrients

      So yeah, again, different chemicals.

    264. Re: Sugar by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Have you actually tried stevia? I grew some once out of curiosity. It really didn't like my north-facing apartment window, but I got to try some fresh before it gave up the ghost. The leaves are *intensely* sweet with a hint of root-beer, and sugar/calorie content is comparable to any other leafy green. Dry and crumble the leaves and it's an excellent sugar substitute - for a healthy "ripe" plant the conversion factor is one tablespoon of powdered stevia leaf replaces one cup of sugar, though it doesn't dissolve or brown so it's not suitable for everything. Commercial processed stevia-extract based products are far sweeter and will dissolve, so they're suitable for beverages, etc. as well

      Considering that there do not appear to be any health considerations at moderate intake levels I think it has wonderful potential. It may not be a good idea to completely replace sugar in US processed foods since there are some concerns that toxicity may begin to arise at the "total sweetness equivalent" of the sugar in the ahem, horizontally challenged American diet, but replace 20-30% of that with stevia and you've just drastically reduced your calorie intake without any side effects.

      Basically - why would you want to use sugar as a sweetener when there's an all natural alternative that's (practically) calorie free?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    265. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      That has no bearing on what I said.
      I made no statement about GMO, neither for nor against.

    266. Re: Sugar by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      I haven't actually tried it. I'm not necessarily against it, I just explained that I think it's a current fad.

      I am not one of those against completely artificial sweeteners, so I use those, and they're *totally* calorie free. (Yes, I know there are some studies claiming people eat more when they use artificial sweeteners. I sure know that when I long ago switched to diet soda, I immediately cut out a few hundred empty calories a day. So yes, I think even the joke about "a Big Mac, Large Fries, and a diet Coke" isn't very funny, because it is _less bad_ than with a large sugared soda too.)

    267. Re:Sugar by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Processed food generally means the fiber has been removed in some manner or another or involves low fiber foods to begin with.

      Uhh, what? They're removing the fiber from my steak? McDonalds is removing the fiber from their hamburger buns? Canned chili has the fiber removed from its beans? What are you even talking about?

      Coke is frequently demonized, but it has fewer calories than the non-processed fruit juice, and fruit juice similarly has little or no fiber. Also, fruit juice contains a more easily absorbed form of sugar (pure fructose) than processed table sugar (paired fructose/sucrose which is harder to absorb and more often excreted instead) usually used in Coke (outside the US).

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    268. Re:Sugar by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      They are fed a laboratory chow that is largely starch and sugar. It's not talking about wild animals.

      It doesn't matter what they are fed unless the quantity of the feed has changed. Then the question would be why would every lab in the country have changed the quantity of food at the same time? Most likely it is not the type of food or the quantity that has changed but something else in the environment.

    269. Re:Sugar by sjwt · · Score: 1

      And I don't want my Inter-tubes slowed down by a bunch of pimply faced geeks torrenting every bit of porn just because they can, doesn't mean its going to happen.. I'm looking at you AC

      --
      You have 5 Moderator Points!
      Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
    270. Re:Sugar by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Nothing we're talking about here is affecting EVERYONE. It's affecting the population as a whole, on a STATISTICAL level. That doesn't imply anything whatsoever about any given individual.

      Not entirely everyone, but just about...

      "As of 2007, 33% of men and 36% of women [in the USA] are obese" And "It was not until the 20th century that it became common."

      Any cause you come up with, which isn't significant in the lives of at least 40% of the US population, simply can't be the cause.

      And it's similarly likely that nearly 100% of us are being exposed to the cause, and other factors (like will power, lifestyle, or any other negating factors) are counter-acting the cause. It's also likely to be nearly 100% because if only 40% of people were doing something, and they were 100X more likely to be obese than the rest of the population, we'd have identified the cause in no time, not scratching our heads after decades of research...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    271. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      It absolutely has bearing on what you said. "The fructose and glucose found in hfcs are chemically identical to those found in other natural sources." The point of the components being identical is absolutely wrong. Not just a little bit, but a very wrong (see my differential equation example). The pink goo was a further example, but not the same example

      In a post below you respond that cooking changes the nutritional values of foods. Would you also say that cooking is a type of "processing"? I'm guessing you will say "yeah", but entertain me if not.

      Does changing the foods by processing change the bodies ability to digest the food? Again, I'm guessing that you will say "yes", but a "no" answer would still be entertaining. (I will warn you that there is a mountain of scientific data on this, so you would be best to do some research before making a "no" claim. No, I won't Google that for you.)

      We can finally claim that processed foods are different nutritionally, and further claim that processing changes our ability to digest said foods. To claim that HFCS is the same as Cane sugar or Honey, is an absolutely logical contradiction to the first two claims.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    272. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Get back to me when you have an actual study in an actual research publication instead of the front page of a quack website.

    273. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      And this, children, is why you should always be skeptical of AC's. He makes a reference to roofies (misspelled, of course), the nickname for the drug flunitrazepam, brand name Rohypnol. Flunitrazepam is a member of the class of drugs called benzodiazepines, which work by increasing the frequency with which GABAergic chloride channels open and thus make the transmembrane cell potential of the neuron even more negative (i.e., less likely to fire).

      In vivo, the predominant effect is mild euphoria and sedation accompanied by profound amnesia, making it the ideal date rapist's drug: the victim appears merely slightly drunk to onlookers, but remembers nothing the next day, making said rapist's story the only one available.

      I'm an anesthesiologist with a longstanding personal interest in pharmacology. There are people on earth who know more than I do about drugs, but the odds are that you're not one of them.

    274. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      I merely claim that fructose is processed the same regardles of whether it comes from hfcs or from, for example, natural agave.

      If you actually read what I wrote you'll see that I absolutely agree that cooking and various kinds of processing change the chemical composition of the foods, and therefore necessarily changes the way they are matabolized.

    275. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Sugars tend to cause increased calorie consumption. The causes and effects are hotly debated, of course, but the plausible mechanisms all involve some metabolic defect that causes the body to fail to recognize that adequate energy has been consumed, resulting in persistent hunger in the face of superabundant nutrition. Changing the composition of the food changes the results because some foods induce greater food consumption, and some foods provide better satiety value.

      They changed rodent feed to make it cheaper and more long-lasting. The result is that rats, marmosets, and the like all get fat on a high-carb diet.

    276. Re: Sugar by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      The label "dextrose" is annoying, too. Dextrose is the same as R-glucose, which is really the same as "glucose". Sure, there's L-glucose, but it's generally only found in indigestible starches IIRC. But they're required to label corn-derived glucose differently (in some cases) than glucose from other sources. Hence, dextrose.

    277. Re:Sugar by jon3k · · Score: 1

      Agreed - total calories consumer vs burned (aka Basal Metabolic Rate) dictates the upper or lower bounds of mass (that's basic thermodynamics). How those calories are stored or burned is dictated to a large degree by the ratio of macronutrients (how much are high glycemic carbs vs say, protein).

    278. Re:Sugar by Zaelath · · Score: 1

      I think you're talking about HFCS like it's one product, and loathe as I am to quote wikipedia:

      The relative sweetness of HFCS 55 is comparable to table sugar (sucrose), a disaccharide of fructose and glucose,[15] (HFCS 90 is sweeter than sucrose and HFCS 42 is less sweet than sucrose) while, being a liquid, HFCS is easier to blend and transport.

    279. Re:Sugar by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Good point, though as I understand it HFCS55 is sort of the "standard".

      And hey, don't knock wikipedia - it's an excellent one-stop shop for first opinions, and usually about as reliable as any other source you could name.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    280. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not uncommon to gain 100 pounds in one week after a complete removal.

      You, sir, are a moron. It is physically impossible to gain 100 pounds in one week. You would have to eat an extra 50,000 kcal/day to gain that much weight. Since a typical diet is 2,000 kcal/day, you are talking about eating 25 times the normal amount of food. Thyroid or not, it ain't gonna happen.

    281. Re:Sugar by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]
      Citation: I live in Africa, I see these animals (in the wild) every day of my life. The wild ones are not fat.

      >Not for nothing but do you really think lab feed isn't pretty well standardized. I mean, do you really think professional biologists just don't care what the aminals on whom their results depend are eating? Do they also take them home and let them run around on the carpet and feed them cheetos and let them watch TV?

      No I don't, that's sort of the point. But on the other hand - labs actually hardly ever raise their own animals. They buy them in bulk from companies that specialise in breeding animals for lab work. Do you really believe these profit seeking corporations have never cut corners on the feed considering it would be virtually impossible to prove ?
      I also never said food was the ONLY thing they had in common with humans, I merely said that contrary to the GP - these animals DO have that in common with us.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    282. Re:Sugar by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >I'm pretty sure feral rats are wild animals, though they do feed off of human food. Of course, if you want to eliminate any species that eats human food, you're also going to reduce or eliminate almost all the other potential influences listed in the article -- regulated indoor temperature, excessive light exposure, exposure to industrial chemicals, exposure to the Ad-36 virus or to M. smithii, etc.

      Or... you could, you know, look at these animals in their natural habits rather than the ones who live in Human habitats. The African wildcat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_wildcat shows no sign of obesity in national parks.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    283. Re:Sugar by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >My local McD's is full of them, I swear!

      True, but we were talking about them as consumers not ingredients :P

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    284. Re:Sugar by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Actually - this discussion WAS precise about which specific processing the GP thought was bad. He may even be right, I have consistently refrained from expressing an opinion on whether he was right or not because I don't have the data to form one - but your critique is invalid, he gave a specific example.

      I actually do have one on Orange Juice for you though - there is a very good reason to avoid purchased orange juice - it is much more concentrated, many dienticians believe it's TOO concentrated and advise against ever having more juice than you can squeeze from ONE fruit per day.

      >There's an implication that a big factory manufacturing is utterly unable to make something healthy and nutritious, even if they got rid of the nutrition sucking machine and stopped putting in additives.

      Incapable ? Nope. Completely without incentive ? Definitely. There will always be more profit in taking shortcuts and cutting corners.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    285. Re:Sugar by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Its been said a million times: HFCS is a bogeyman. Sometimes, in some situations, it can be less healthy, but the problem is one of quantity consumed, not what particular type of sugar youre eating.

      The problem with HFCS isn't so much the fact of eating HFCS as how it is actually used. The comment at the top of this thread really nailed it. In some recipes you can effectively replace oil with HFCS if you throw enough citric acid in to balance out the flavor. This has two immediate benefits to the processed food industry. First, HFCS is cheaper than even lousy vegetable oil. Second, oil goes off, but sugar and citric acid are both food preservatives. Not only does the substitution reduce the problem of spoilage of the oil, but it also actually helps preserve the other ingredients of the food. This, and not the chemical composition, is the reason why you should put a product back down if you see HFCS in the list of ingredients. It's technically food, but if you compared the recipe from something from (for example) The Joy of Cooking, all of the recipes would most closely match something from the dessert section except for the perplexing inclusion of a crapload of citric acid.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    286. Re:Sugar by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Well, the typical answer is that fruit juice, if it hasn't been cooked to oblivion, has enzymes in it that may assist in processing the sugars. Of course, finding non-pasteurized juice is about a bitch any more unless you go someplace they make it in front of you and overcharge you for the privilege. Which is why we have a juicer... And why you should drink water and eat fruit if you're out and care about such things.

      Personally, I had a Coca-Cola habit that led to an ulcer than went away when I stopped drinking it. Now I associate the taste of Coke with the taste of blood. Didn't they try that back in the eighties or something?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    287. Re:Sugar by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      How does focusing on a species that lives in national parks in an unindustrialized part of the world negate the notion that environmental impacts other than process food which are endemic to modern, industrial life have an influence on weight gain?

      Your proposed "control" fails to differentiate between diet and non-diet influences by removing both from the equation. It's essentially irrelevant to the thesis at hand.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    288. Re:Sugar by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >How does focusing on a species that lives in national parks in an unindustrialized part of the world negate the notion that environmental impacts other than process food which are endemic to modern, industrial life have an influence on weight gain?

      I never said it does.

      >Your proposed "control" fails to differentiate between diet and non-diet influences by removing both from the equation. It's essentially irrelevant to the thesis at hand.

      That's not the thesis it was meant to be a control FOR.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    289. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Let's sum up the conversation and see how we moved back to your first argument.

      I stated that reports show that the body can not process HFCS very well, but can process natural sugars such as cane, beet, or honey.

      You stated, "I call BS" and that HFCS is chemically identical to other sugars.

      I stated "part != whole" and gave examples of how your "identical" statement is false.

      You stated that part == whole _and_ processing makes no difference.

      I showed that you were wrong and that you have a logical contradiction when making such claims.

      Now you claim that fructose is processed the same (I assume you are referring to how the body processes it, not manufacturing type processing) and have moved back to your first point of being chemically identical.

      Instead of continuing the debate, go back through my arguments. Remember that repeating untrue statements will never make them true, and that logical contradictions mean that both A and B can not be true. Also go read about how much processing is required to extract HFCS from corn, and compare to how much processing you have to do for Cane or Beat sugars, or Honey (the sugars I called out at first that you claimed "BS" about).

      If you are now trying to claim that you were only referring to "Agave", I call BS. That was not in any of your previous claims, which attempted to state that my starting claims were wrong.

      Now if you wish to concede that you were wrong in your initial arguments and that I have a logically correct point, I will accept a topic change to "What about other heavily processed sugars?".

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    290. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      If you read the article you questioned, you would see numerous links to scientific studies. The same would be true for the sugars topic. I do realize that it's easier for you to avoid cognitive dissonance by avoiding facts, so have no expectation that you actually investigate. That said, please don't pretend you are intelligent when you ignore words to maintain bias and ignore facts to maintain a belief.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    291. Re:Sugar by entmike · · Score: 1

      Look up dietary ketosis, please.

      I've lost 60 lbs in 6 months doing LCHF diet. This was while still consuming the same caloric volume that I was prior to avoiding carbohydrates.

      So by increasing fat consumption, and decreasing carbohydrates, yes I lost 60 lbs.

      FAT alone does NOT make you fat. Elevated insulin levels + Fat/Sugar/Anything makes you fat. Control the insulin (via fasting, low carb, whatever), and cease storing fat.

    292. Re:Sugar by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Check wikipedia. Its "High fructose", I presume, because its got more fructose than your average corn syrup. That doesnt mean its "high fructose" relative to anything else.

    293. Re:Sugar by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Why are these problems unique to HFCS, rather than sugar in general? Mightent we warn people to simply check "grams of sugar" rather than futzing about whether its HFCS or sucrose or glucose?

      Youre right that excess sugar is a huge issue, I just feel like most people want to blame HFCS so that they can continue to enjoy sugary foods and feel good that its sucrose rather than "dangerous" HFCS.

    294. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Wow. Btw you actually didn't link an article. Just the front page. Guess that's how you roll.

    295. Re:Sugar by Reziac · · Score: 1

      And the sugar in fruit is -- mostly fructose.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    296. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Wow, I never claimed to link an article. Is reading and comprehension really _that_ difficult for you? I responded to your claim that a title article said something other than one it said. Since you made a false claim, I actually skimmed the article to see what the hell you were talking about. I noticed while skimming that the article has links to research and professional opinions.

      I'm guessing since it's a repeated trait, reading and comprehension really is that difficult for you.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    297. Re:Sugar by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Be careful with iodine supplements, tho. Excess iodine is, paradoxically, a known cause of hypothyrodism. Some is good and necessary; more is not better.

      I do think undiagnosed, underdosed, and silent hypothyroidism (where the TSH tests normal but the patient still requires T4 and/or T3 supplementation to feel normal) are far more common than is realised, if only because the symptoms are dismissed as part of the aging process, especially in folks over age 50, or are lumped under garbage-can diagnoses like "chronic fatigue syndrome" or "fibromyalgia" or even "depression".

      Dunno about sucralose, but aspartame is thought to suppress thyroid activity.

      [I have Hashimoto's. I've had to become a pocket expert on hypothyroid issues, mostly via reading the Journal of Endocrinology.]

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    298. Re:Sugar by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Craving sweets all the time can also indicate a hypothyroid condition, even if your TSH tests in the 'normal' range. (Normal per current thought, tho from what I've read in the Journal of Endocrinology, I suspect the *real* 'normal' is very close to suppressed. TSH levels have never been studied in normal persons, only in hypothyroid patients.)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    299. Re:Sugar by Valdrax · · Score: 1

      That's not the thesis it was meant to be a control FOR.

      If I recall correctly, your thesis was that diets filled with manufactured foods was the real culprit behind their weight gain, and the lack of wild animal weight gain proves the point. If you compare wild animals and those fed off of processed foods, you fail to control for the vary external factors that this study raises as possible culprits.

      If that wasn't your thesis, then please explain what bringing up the African wildcat was supposed to illustrate.

      --
      If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    300. Re:Sugar by crabby0 · · Score: 1

      It's the lack of Minerals in the soil that is the major problem. The Fruits and Veges we as a society grow can only take from the ground what is in it. The Scientists also are some of the problem and the food companies are as well. As for a solution, it is simple although not necessarily easy. Let a patch of land lie fallow for a year. Divide the Farm into 7 areas and plant all 7 areas with your crops.

      After 2 years empty the 7th plot and leave fallow for a year. After 3 years transplant crop 1 into the 7th plot. Then every year, put the crop that is in the plot next to the fallow 1 into the first plot. eg. crop 2 into plot 1 and leave plot 2 fallow. After that, 3 into 2 and leave 3 fallow for a year. Then 4 into 3 and leave 4 fallow. That will give you the best quality Fruits and Veges. The bank might have something to say about that though.

      You however can tell them you are following the Biblical method as that guarantees the best Nutrition and Quality every year. The wisdom behind this is it allows the Land to regenerate by the rains coming and the bugs on top of the land to deposit their droppings on top and the worms take it from the top and churn it into the soil. After a year, you plant some crops into that plot and then grow for six years just taking it out after 6 and putting it into the vacant plot.

      It is our intensive, overfarming that is the problem. If we take a little time to let the Land rest for a year, we will have less output but the Quality and Nutrition will be better. HTRH.

    301. Re:Sugar by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Independent studies show that the body can process and digest natural sugars (honey, beet, cane) but can not process HFCS. Natural News [naturalnews.com] has reported on numerous studies on the subject. Additive producers "claim" that they are the same, but they obviously have self interest in making such claims.

    302. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Are you so ignorant that you believe that if someone says "go read an encyclopedia" you instantly have knowledge of Roman History (for example) by simply reading the title "Britannica Encyclopedia Volume 24"? No, you can't really be that fucking stupid, but you sure as hell are painting yourself to look like it.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    303. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      I don't follow this ""I stated "part != whole" and gave examples of how your "identical" statement is false.""
      HFCS is fructose + glucose + other. I claim that both fructose and glucose are found in foods naturally in exactly the same form, and are processed by the body in the same way regardless of whether they came from HFCS or other sources. This is my sole claim in this chain. If you agree with this then we have no further argument.

      I *NEVER* stated "... part == whole _and_ processing makes no difference."

      I don't, and have never, believed those things.

    304. Re:Sugar by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I don't see how it's correct to say that something is half itself and half something else. Wouldn't that lead to a continued fraction?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    305. Re:Sugar by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Actually it varies wildly by fruit type, but yeah they do tend to have a little bit more fructose than glucose, with the rest as sucrose. Vegetables tend to lean a little the other way.

      The point is, until our bodies "learned" how to process fructose it was largely a wasted resource, neither benefit nor harm. Once we acquired the fructose-processing mutation we roughly doubled the sugar-based calories available in plant-based foods and they became a much more valuable food source. Wonderful for a wild animal foraging for food and kept fairly lean by competition, but now that we mostly don't have any outside limits on our sugar consumption the fact that fructose takes a harsher metabolic pathway is a bit of a problem beyond just the overarching calories/diabetes issue.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    306. Re:Sugar by suutar · · Score: 1

      how does one both eliminate carbs and eat sugar?

    307. Re:Sugar by udippel · · Score: 1

      Maybe like you can hoover the landing with a Siemens?

    308. Re:Sugar by Meski · · Score: 1

      It's cheap in the USA. In Australia, cane sugar is cheaper. In Australia, CocaCola uses cane sugar. So in Australia, cane sugar is the cause of obesity, diabetes, etc. (not that CocaCola is the only cause)

    309. Re:Sugar by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      What I was trying to say is that both products are cheap in the US. Corn syrup is a little cheaper, but cane sugar is still really cheap. Many companies have switched to cane sugar as the result of anti-HFCS public opinion. Doesn't really cost them much.

    310. Re:Sugar by Meski · · Score: 1

      Probably Coke will not do this. They've been badly burned in the past changing formula, and I bet that changing the 2 sugars would be perceptible. But for other product? why not? Just don't expect it to cure obesity, is what I was saying. Diet alone won't anyway.

    311. Re:Sugar by quantaman · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but Taubes is a crank (I've been in a massive week long debate in another thread (that's seriously less then half of it, there's 1.5 other threads going...).

      I get that some people might not want to read through all the science and dodge through Taubes's various rationalizations so I thought I'd toss out this gem that illustrates Taubes intellectual honesty from a previous Taubes interview (emphasis added)

      TAUBES: And soy. But that’s Yeah, it’s tough. So you’re pretty much stuck with (gasp!) animal products. And it becomes this ethical issue, this religious issue, this environmental issue when it’s fundamentally The argument I You know, let’s get the health right. Like if somebody knows that they’re going to doom their kids to a life of obesity and diabetes cuz they’re going to make them vegetarians or vegans, then that’s fine as long as they understand that they’re not doing their kids any favors and that (that’s) the choice they made.

      There in a snapshot is the credibility of Gary Taubes, evidence doesn't fit your theory? Just reverse the evidence.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    312. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are at least three things wrong with this single statement.

      First, there has been no drop in the overall per capita fat intake in the U.S. since the 70's. There has been a drop in consumption of butter that was more than compensated by the increase in consumption of animal fats and vegetable oils (e.g. olive oils).

      Second, while the intake of sugar did increase, it only increased by perhaps 20% or so since 1970: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.s.sugarconsumption.2.jpg

      Third, the brain most certainly sees sugar as nutrition. For starters, sugar raises blood glucose, which is a major factor in "seeing food as nutrition". It is definitely seen as better nutrition than fat (though worse than complex carbs).

      Random citations:

      http://www.colorado.edu/intphys/Class/IPHY3700_Greene/pdfs/hunger_satiety/gerstein2003.pdf

      "under normal circumstances in which fat contributes disproportionately to energy density, protein, carbohydrate, and fat exert hierarchical effects on satiety in the order of protein > carbohydrate > fat; some additional research has confirmed this phenomenon"

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7956999

      "When offered a high sucrose, low fat selection of snacks subjects consumed less energy than when offered a high fat, low sucrose selection (P 0.0001). However postingestive satiety was similar. The energy intake of snacks consumed was also determined by hunger; the low energy lunch gave rise to a higher level of hunger and greater intake (P 0.01). Energy intake for the total day was significantly more when high fat, low sucrose snacks were consumed (P 0.001). ... These results have indicated that the size of an eating episode is influenced by the level of hunger and the nutrient composition of the foods consumed. High fat foods (probably due to higher energy density) lead to a passive overconsumption which generates a relatively weak satiety.

    313. Re: Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basically - why would you want to use sugar as a sweetener when there's an all natural alternative that's (practically) calorie free?

      I have admittedly not eaten the leaves themselves, but any time I've had anything with stevia in it there's been a weird and unpleasant aftertaste.

    314. Re:Sugar by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Many cats will also eat some grass if given the chance. Eating too much will make them sick, but it seems that cats need a small amount of vegetation in their diets.

    315. Re:Sugar by nobodie · · Score: 1

      actually, when we lived in China, sugar cane was a popular snack. You could buy a whole (25 feet long) cane stalk and have it cut into shorter (@10 inches) pieces to snack on. You chew and spit out most of the fiber, but it is yummy, my kids grew up on it and really loved it.

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    316. Re:Sugar by nobodie · · Score: 1

      yean, like alcohol, who ever in their bleedin' right mind could consider alcohol a flippin' poison?

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    317. Re:Sugar by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Why are these problems unique to HFCS, rather than sugar in general? Mightent we warn people to simply check "grams of sugar" rather than futzing about whether its HFCS or sucrose or glucose?

      They aren't, but they have been, because sugar has been subject to tariffs while HFCS has been supported by subsidy. But now sugar beets are getting subsidies and corn is losing them. Sadly, it takes even more clean water to produce sugar with beets than with corn, so this will be even worse for the biosphere. So, that soon may be a real consideration, but sugar is still too expensive.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    318. Re:Sugar by OdinOdin_ · · Score: 1

      > Since it supresses appetite, you tend to eat more.

      Huh.... appetite is the brain response to going hungry and getting a desire to eat via hormonal / chemical changes within the body.

      Suppressing this response means to loose the desire to eat, which is not necessarily the same thing as feeling full, but more like eating becomes a chore, as the satiation (pleasure) response is dulled.

      So your comment makes no sense, when your appetite is suppressed you eat less. What happens with sugar is the high glucose levels triggers short term higher energy and to associated stimulant effect from that, and the lack of real hunger satiation response allows the users to gorge too much sugar, whilst at the same time not providing any wholesome nutritional value (lack of variety of micro nutrients - from candy)

      There is an old wives tale of giving the children of the family a small amount of candy, before 1950s in time before the main meal of the day. In order to suppress the child's appetite and thus not require as much of the scarce/expensive wholesome food. The largest plate of food is given to the bread winner of the household.

      So to me it all depends on who, how and when the sugar is given. A few sweets and hour before a main meal reduces the amount eaten, a soda drink given immediately before or during dinner increases it.

      I agree also with the fiber meaning fuller sooner with smaller portions. But that is also true of complex carbohyrates and complex protein (i.e. not whey hydroyslate, but regular beef), actually anything with a higher calorific requirement to metabolize. It costs calories to break down certain foods, water soluble glucose requires less (as do fats) and things like fibre get in the way of the process so its slower and less efficient thus using more energy.

    319. Re:Sugar by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Why import something natural when you can synthesize something much worse locally?

      Because the US has high tariffs on sugar imports to protect the local sugar growers. This is widely considered to be bad policy, but it's tradition and the sugar lobby is powerful, so anyway, that is the reason.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    320. Re:Sugar by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Sugar doesn't make you fat. Marriage makes you fat. Just compare the waistlines of your single and married friends to see what I mean.

      This is basically true. It's amazing the amount of incentive provided by needing to compete for pussy/penis on the open market.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    321. Re:Sugar by kesuki · · Score: 1

      you should know by now that tv sensatonalizes any science for dieting. when ironically having addictive instant entertainment does more harm than the other diet choices. and cell phones are almost worse, since you can walk into traffic and get yourself run over. sugar is not really that bad for you, if you keep your metabolism high. veggie smoothies are not a quick fix, despite what people say about it. if green colored foods were so healthy for you why are americans just now learning this, why are americans living longer than any less developed nation when those people can't afford meat and sugar? and why hasn't the big mac guy who has had one big mac a day since mc donalds opened near him have cholesterol clogged veins for omg eating cow meat. sigh. but i think it's great we can argue about this. but i do not trust tv doctors. it is their fault hospital food is disgusting, repeating the drivel they were taught. even water will kill you if you drink too much of it, and it is so vital even hospitals provide it.

    322. Re:Sugar by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I ran across your comment metamoderating and you're 100% incorrect. When people say "radiation" they're referring to ionizing radiation, very little of which comes from the sun. The last time the Cubs won the world series there were no planes high enough to be affected by radiation, but thousands of people do daily now. There were no X-ray machines. There were no nuclear explosions on Earth before 1945, and in the '50s thousands of nuclear bombs were tested above ground, spreading radiation world-wide, and we've had Chernoble and Fukishama..

    323. Re:Sugar by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      I think you and gp actually agree...

      Gp never said hfcs is the same as glucose.
      Sucrose is half fructose half glucose.
      Hfcs is about half fructose half glucose.
      It takes mere seconds for sucrose to be split into fructose and glucose once eaten.
      So they are really very similar.
      Replacing sucrose with hfcs makes almost no difference. (They are different while in the mouth).

      There are two significant changes in our diet that caused most of the trouble:
      1 a vast increase in daily sugar intake
      2 a large decrease in fiber intake.

      Blaming hfcs over agave, honey, pure sucrose or fructose is pointless.

    324. Re:Sugar by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Hybrid foods are not the same as GMO foods, and making such a claim reeks of either ignorance or willful collusion. GMO foods, the ones that most people have problems with, contain genes that can not happen in nature. Forcing bacteria genes into corn for example to get them to produce insecticides on the stalk (as one of many foreign genes introduced into GMO corn).

      The problem is that "GMO" is a useless term, since it can mean almost anything. Yes, we have been "genetically modifying" food for thousands of years -- the DNA of human-modified and bred crops is far different from their wild cousins. Or, it can also refer to "roundup-ready" crops. Or pesticide-producing crops. Or a tomato that has no difference from another tomato other than it's a little bigger.

    325. Re:Sugar by s.petry · · Score: 1

      There are a whole lot of people that make a whole lot of preposterous claims. PETA claims that fish are "sea kittens" for example. I don't given them credence and won't argue in their favor. To imply that you can not debate a point because of someone espousing a horrible opinion is nonsense.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    326. Re: Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Highly recommended: Gary Taubes' "Why We Are Fat", published last year I believe. Comprehensive, enlightening, and the upshot is: eat protein and fat, eliminate sugar; wheat, corn and in general eat as few grains as possible; fruits and veggies are overrated, get some exercise. Counting calories is a stupid and worthless exercise, as all calories aren't created equal. Meat and fat are your friends (and pretty much your only friends). I'm paraphrasing here of course, but I found this book to be a real eye-opener. The best part is it uses every major nutritional study done over the last 75 years for support.

    327. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Partly true. There are what? 4 'natural' citrus varieties? The rest are man-made. The problem with modern GMO's is that altering its genetic makeup so roundup doesn't melt it and other such bullshit is that it will be 50-100 years before any concrete evidence will be available and the shitheads at Monsanto will claim that any problems are the result of environmental factors and there won't be any way to disprove that unless someone is willing to do controlled studies on people starting at birth.

    328. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need an additional control group. Wild animals have to find their food. They must expend calories to chase it down and kill it, or in the process of scavenging. Food quality is not the only issue. Sedentary existences also contribute to obesity.

    329. Re:Sugar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ....and that explain the parallell growth in marmosetsa, rats and chimps.

  3. "IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOK!" by Tekoneiric · · Score: 5, Funny

    Aliens are fattening us up for the slaughter...

    --
    *It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
    1. Re:"IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOK!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      orion burger inc. :)

    2. Re:"IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOK!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Phew, and I was getting afraid I might be useless.

    3. Re:"IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOK!" by Thanshin · · Score: 1

      Aliens are fattening us up for the slaughter...

      Fortunately for us, after a prolonged study, the Aliens have only managed to reduce the list of possible dominant species on Earth to: macaques, chimpanzees, vervet monkeys, mice, humans, domestic dogs, domestic cats, and domestic and feral rats from both rural and urban areas.

      And marmosets. Which are considered, by the vast majority of the alien scientific community, as the most likely candidate.

    4. Re:"IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOK!" by blackest_k · · Score: 2

      It's probable that feral rats are living on the same foods we are, it may be that there is a problem with some of the food we manufacture.

      One thing a lot of processed food has in common has is a long shelf life and salt and sugar are common preservatives. we know this inhibits bacteria outside our bodies how is this effecting the bacteria within our bodies? Would this make a difference in to how our bodies process food?

      I don't diet but I am diabetic and I have become a bit more sensitive to what I am eating, my body weight is steadily dropping and the better I control my blood sugars the less i weigh. I am more likely to buy from the outside aisles. of course it means nothing in the general statistics. I do think it makes a difference.
           

    5. Re:"IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOK!" by Skater · · Score: 1

      I like the "Lilo & Stitch" theory: Earth was designed as a breeding ground for an endangered species - the mosquito.

    6. Re:"IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOK!" by IwantToKeepAnon · · Score: 1

      Aliens are fattening us up for the slaughter...

      • How to cook humans
      • How to cook for humans
      • How to cook forty humans
      --
      "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
    7. Re:"IT'S A COOKBOOK! A COOKBOOK!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Recently ran across a copy of To Serve Man?

  4. There's a solution. by mybeat · · Score: 3, Informative

    I heard something called 'mehth' can make you slim!

    1. Re:There's a solution. by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1, Funny

      Really? Here's the only link I could find:

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/tag/mehth/products/

      So, just listening to that music can make you slim. I'm intrigued.

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    2. Re:There's a solution. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the times past, lab animals were doing mehth much more often. War on drugs works!!

    3. Re:There's a solution. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're almost certainly joking, but my father related to me that (I think it was in the 1960s) a military doctor prescribed him Dexedrine for weight loss. It isn't meth, but it's in the same class of substances. He didn't take it very long, probably because all the other effects weren't very convenient.

  5. More grav(it)y by MoreDruid · · Score: 1

    ... it makes you heavier

    --
    The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
  6. How stupid can you get? by Pieroxy · · Score: 0

    So the excuse for Americans to get fatter is that they managed to fuck off all the species living on their soil with them? I though that would be seen as an aggravating factor, not an excuse.

  7. Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That title goes to Mexico. So cheer on, someone else has you beat on this.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
    1. Re:Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      What? America is not the number 1? That's not acceptable! EAT MORE!

    2. Re:Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      nah. We can just allow more illegals up here.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by will_die · · Score: 1

      If you go by a more number, per capita, the USA drops even more.
      By per capita the US is around number 7 or 8.

    4. Re:Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      The US is just taking the easy way to make itself look better. It much easier to maker your friends fatter than to lose the weight yourself. You look thinner relative to your friends but with less work.

    5. Re:Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not Mexico. If you read the article you linked it is Nauru.

    6. Re:Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by Time_Ngler · · Score: 1

      That's the problem. Our border is like a sieve. The fat ones can't walk more than a couple of miles, so they say fuck it and stay in Mexico.

    7. Re:Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by BenSchuarmer · · Score: 1

      We got twinkies back, we can reclaim place again.

    8. Re:Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      That's the problem. Our border is like a sieve. The fat ones can't walk more than a couple of miles, so they say fuck it and stay in Mexico.

      Interesting thesis. Considering girth has historically been a sign of prosperity, it could indicate that heavier Mexican citizens are actually quite well off in Mexico, so do not have the impetus to leave that the less well off citizens do.

      Really, this is such a first world problem, it angers me every time it comes up. If the biggest crisis people can shout about is that the average citizen is slightly overweight, count your blessings and focus your efforts on helping some third world countries achieve the same 'problem'.

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    9. Re:Well America isn't number 1 in being fat by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      We got twinkies back, we can reclaim place again.

      That's probably a good thing, we were tired of tapping into our national twinkee reserve and shipping them south to the US, just like you keep trying to get us to open our strategic national maple syrup reserve.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  8. Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The article is so much more in depth than "it's sugar" or "it's excess calories", and reasons away these as just one of the growing body of hundreds of possible causes and proven links to obesity. Hence why this article is titled "What's Causing the Rise In Obesity? Everything." Any pithy "It's this one thing [someone] did [somewhere]" comment is highly ignorant.

    1. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Ardyvee · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, it sure it is all about excess calories. No, it isn't just about excess sugar, which is what:

      Very simply food manufacturers removed the fat in the 70's and replaced it with huge amounts of sugar. The problem with sugar is the brain doesn't see it as nutrition thus it doesn't suppress your appetite when you eat sugar filled foods.

      suggest, because:

      The reason why your caloric intake is such as it is, why your burning efficiency is lower, or why you're less active and hence burn less are obviously quite a complex set of conditions

      which isn't really reduced to food manufactures removing fat and replacing it with sugar (let alone the validity of this claim and it's applicability to the considered population). And this is what I believe was what AC was trying to point out and you reinforced.

      --
      I don't care if I'm wrong. I only care about everyone obtaining something from the discussion.
    2. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Jesus fucking christ... just read the article and stop bringing your shitty notion of 'common sense' to the table.

    3. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Haha, go and read TFA. The entire article is about demonstrating that the "it's simple thermodynamics" answer is pure bullshit. I'll give you a hint as to part of why it's bullshit –humans are not closed systems. It's not true that the energy we use and the energy input as food are equal. We for example, poop.

      The article even gives strong evidence that it's got nothing at all to do with simple thermodynamics, citing that lab animals, which are fed regulated diets with specific calorific values are gaining weight at the same rate as humans are.

      The "it's basic thermodynamics" people would have you believe that if you consume 2030 calories, and gain 30 calories worth of fat a day, that you could eat 2000 calories and magically lose weight. As TFA points out, if this were true, losing weight would be a simple matter of not eating 3 peanuts a day. The reality is that it's much harder than that. The reality is that if you consume 2000 calories instead of 2030, many people's bodies biochemistry will simply decide to poop out 30 calories less fat.

      At 2030 calories input, your body may well decide to do the following:
      - Use 1500 calories on doing things
      - store 30 calories
      - poop 500 calories

      At 2000 calories input, your body may well decide to do the following:
      - Use 1500 calories on doing things
      - store 30 calories
      - poop 470 calories

      At 1500 calories input, your body may well decide to do:
      - Use only 1200 calories, make you feel tired and depressed
      - store 30 calories
      - poop 270 calories.

      At a certain calorific intake, from certain foods, with certain genetics, certain viruses, certain chemical conditions, certain lighting and heating conditions ..., your body will decide to do all kinds of different things. So no, it's not simply a matter of telling overweight people "eat less, do more". It's not that simple.

      Unfortunately, the kind of people who think it is that simple tend to be people who are thin because of all kinds of environmental factors. Because of that, they think it's trivial to be thin, and hence lambast the fatties for their "lack of willpower", when the reality is actually massively more complex than that.

    4. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    5. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by argStyopa · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Ignorant, but useful in identifying the idiots who oversimplify things either because they're aggressively stupid (every adult should pretty much understand that NOTHING is quite as simple as single-answer solution), or disingenuously answering based on their politics, religion, or some other dogma that is more important to them than candor.

      Although I'm pretty sure this is caused solely by Global Warming.

      --
      -Styopa
    6. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Eivind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Certainly, in principle that's entirely true. In practice though, our bodies have evolved to try *really* hard to extract as much energy as possible from the food we digest. To our detriment today, eating 500 kcals/day too much wouldn't matter if the body would just take "what it needs" and poop the rest.

      There's no indication that consuming more calories will cause your body to digest significantly fewer of them. But it is true, like you write, that on very low calorie diets, your metabolism and thus energy-consumption will tend to fall. So you might eat 1000 kcal less, but your metabolism slows by 300 kcal, so your weight-loss is slower than expected.

    7. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Bongo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And also, most of our energy is used in the base metabolic rate. The body can adjust that a little here, a little there.

      Another little point, children overeat because they are growing. But they don't grow because they overeat. It is the body's control systems which regulate what the body is doing and thus, how much to eat.

      Sugar / carbs, being available in unnatural quantities, flummox this system. It puts the body into a mode where its aim becomes to store fat, and it'll get the energy to store fat even by destroying muscle if it has to. Lab rats which died of heart failure because they were being underfed, starved, and they burned up their muscle tissue, whilst keeping their fat tissue -- they died obese and starved. (see Taubes for the ref.)

      But instead of recognising the conventional energy-balance model has failed, "common sense" blames it on "lack of will power".
      (Thermodynamics as a law hasn't failed, it is still true for bodies, but they reasoning that fat loss is just about calorie counting and exercise has failed.)

    8. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what you mean is, the study was done by people who've done those "miracle diets" and found out it doesn't work.

      Yes, the body does work like that, if (and this a big big big IF) it's starved, but you can drop your caloric intake without starving the body. Our metabolism (it varies in degree, but it's basically the same in essence) will detect it's being "starved" if we let it pass too much time during meals, and it will lower our metabolism and start gathering every bit of what we eat for reserve (after using what it needs).

      It's not only about caloric intake. The "starving" mechanism in our body isn't about (or only about, or even the most important factor to the mechanism) caloric intake, but the regularity of the meals. If you take those 2030 calories in one go, but don't eat anything else the rest of the day, you can pretty much be sure that as soon as the body "notices" it goes long periods of time without any intake it will start to gather the full load and place what it doesn't use as reserve (and lowers your metabolism, so it will need less calories while putting on reserve, as fat, even more).

      But if you take those 2030 calories in several meals throughout the day, the body won't have a reason to exec it's "starving" protection mechanism, so it won't lower your metabolism (it might even rise it), but it will store much of what it doesn't need as reserve.

      So you can guess what happens if you take a 2030 calories but in several meals, and 1500 calories in just a couple.

      I can say by experience that eating well (in several meals throughout the day) does wonders, since I lost 30 kilograms (110 pounds) in a period of 3 months while doing it (and ran for 10 minutes every morning, but that wasn't exercise, was just a "wake up" run). After that initial loss (huge, granted) I started loosing way less (about 4 to 6 kg a year - 8 to 13 pounds - but I think this year I'll plateau it) since my body fat stabilized (and the reason for loosing so much in a short period of time is explained by raising my metabolism, loosing excess water and trading part of the body fat for muscle, even without doing much exercise, and with the rise of muscle tissue it raised the basal metabolism even more).

    9. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Taxeman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Contrary to what you're saying, the problem has everything to do with thermodynamics. You just don't seem to get the "simple thermodynamics" argument.

      You're right that the energy used by the body might vary, and right that it's difficult to control or assess the difference between the input energy and the used energy. Still, you're missing an important limit in your calculation.

      At 0 calories input, your body may well decide to do the following:
      - Use only 750 calories
      - store -750 calories
      - poop 0 calories.

      There is no way around it. You can *force* your body to use more than you eat, and you *will* lose weight. This can be done by eating less, or moving more. This isn't easy, would not necessarily be considered 'healthy', but that's not the point. The point isn't about whether you'll feel depressed or tired, it's about conservation of energy.

    10. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And yet every controlled study ever performed disagrees with your "hard evidence". The only studies that ever support the LCHF/Atkins garbage that you spout are non-controlled studies. The only reason that LCHF/Atkins works for some people is becuase they consume less calories when they exclude the carbs, but the think that they consume more (so they are not cheating their bodies, they are cheeting themselves) which of course is a good thing.

    11. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So which of these is your proposal for someone gaining 30 calories worth of fat from 2030 calories intake per day?
        Change to zero input, causing instant lethargy, depression, other health complications, and causing your body to store everything it can when you have lost sufficient weight, and hence for the net actually to be weight gain after all's said and done.
        Eat 1015 calories a day instead, causing your body to still go into starvation mode, store as much as it can, poop nearly nothing, and making you lethargic and depressed, and hence unable to exercise properly.
        Eat somewhere in the "traditional" diet range, of 1500 to 2000 calories a day, which, as the article points out, doesn't actually work, you will simply poop less out, and/or feel more tired and do less.

      The point actually is that you in many cases *can not* force your body to use more than you eat in a way that doesn't ultimately result actually in either weight gain, and/or more health complications.

    12. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, sir, are an idiot or a jackass; I'm unsure which. The "it's simple thermo dynamics" argument that people make is ALWAYS about reduction of input, not cessation. Proponents usually say things like "just eat less". No one anywhere has ever said that starvation won't result in weight loss, but this article seems to point that reasonable diets may not result in weight loss. You're trying to use an absurd case no one is arguing to attempt to make someone else look wrong. I'm sure there's a fallacy for that, but I'll probably just call it "being like Taxeman" from now on.

    13. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by AmbiLobe · · Score: 1

      For people, there are three electrical switches to turn off permanently to lose weight: the TV switch, the car switch, the refrigerator switch. After those switches disconnect electrical energy, people adapt to the situation and lose weight. For animals, release them from cages permanently to let them get exercise and escape the urban glut.

    14. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by evilviper · · Score: 2

      if you consume 2000 calories instead of 2030, many people's bodies biochemistry will simply decide to poop out 30 calories less fat.

      Then you repeat the process with 30 fewer calories again, and pretty soon you WILL lose weight. It's simple physics, you WILL lose weight after cutting down on calories.

      Whatever is going on might make it easier for our bodies to gain fat, or stimulate our appetites so we're not naturally regulating like previous generations, or anything else. But none of that changes the laws of physics... you CAN still lose weight if you have enough will power to be slightly hungry for a long time.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    15. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by dywolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      youre body doesnt "decide" to poop out calories. who the hell taught you biology?

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    16. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While all this is true, it's true in a complicated way and ultimately thermodynamics rules. If it didn't, then the techniques used in the show "The Biggest Loser" wouldn't work. The reason exercise doesn't seem to "work" is because we overestimate our energy expenditure during exercise. When people are externally monitored in their exercise AND in their diet, magically the pounds seem to melt away.

      That said, it is absolutely true that sugar and fat consumption change the brain chemistry and can lead to over consumption. Likewise, there is considerable evidence that gut bacteria play a role in your "default" level of obesity. Yes, and the virus thing too. And ambient temperature. Etc. What's misleading about the article is that it minimizes the role of exercise and personal responsibility (very popular in America). Interestingly, when we visit Europe, my wife has to buy large size clothing, but here she is something like a size 5-6 (smallish). In Europe (at least the places we have visited) people walk everywhere and the portion sizes are smaller, except, I hear, in Italy. :-) So while the whole everyTHING is getting fatter bit is interesting, it is by no means universal across the globe.

    17. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Your argument assumes an infinite reservoir of willpower to overcome actual, real, substantial hunger. That does not exist. Thermodynamics happens at the cellular level. Eating doesn't.

    18. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one anywhere has ever said that starvation won't result in weight loss

      Actually, quite a lot of people (most of them scientists) have said exactly this. Starving your body, more often than not, actually results in weight gain, because your body does everything it can to store the energy intake that it does receive.

    19. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Which is to say, even the opponents of low-carb dieting must concede that it's a remarkably effective diet that allows weight loss without hunger.

    20. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry but it clearly is excess calories. If you burn more than you eat, you will lose weight. It's basic thermodynamics.

      The reason why your caloric intake is such as it is, why your burning efficiency is lower, or why you're less active and hence burn less are obviously quite a complex set of conditions, but in the end, it's really just about energy conservation.

      Since in the bodily processes relativistic effects are negligible, the change of your mass ("weight") is just the the mass going into your body minus the mass going out of your body. The reason why your mass intake is such as it is or why you put out more or less mass are obviously quite a complex set of conditions, but in the end, it's really just about mass conservation. It's basic mechanics.

      So if you want to reduce your weight, either put less mass in, or make sure more mass goes out.

      And don't complain that my version is an useless oversimplification. At least not without explaining why your version is not. Especially given that the whole story is about the claim that it is. By people who most probably know more about the subject than you do.

    21. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2

      Or you could learn to read and you'd realize that he actually agreed with the article.

      The reason why your caloric intake is such as it is, why your burning efficiency is lower, or why you're less active and hence burn less are obviously quite a complex set of conditions

      That's a perfect summation of the entire article. Where he disagrees is the claim that consumption is irrelevant because of this.

    22. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you consume 2000 calories instead of 2030, many people's bodies biochemistry will simply decide to poop out 30 calories less fat.

      Then you repeat the process with 30 fewer calories again, and pretty soon you WILL lose weight. It's simple physics, you WILL lose weight after cutting down on calories.

      Whatever is going on might make it easier for our bodies to gain fat, or stimulate our appetites so we're not naturally regulating like previous generations, or anything else. But none of that changes the laws of physics... you CAN still lose weight if you have enough will power to be slightly hungry for a long time.

      Simple biology for many ancestors of famine survivors says that the body will then try to store as many as possible of the smaller amount of calories as fat to survive the impending famine. People were not designed to live in a world where food is available everyday so the answer to obesity is moderation all the time.

    23. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, on the other side, there wasn't any obesity case in Buchenwald.

    24. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The top two factors the author listed, "sleepnessness" and "stress", are highly suspect. Now I agree that both could be factors in weight gain, but there is little evidence that we have more of either in 2013 than we did in 1973 or 1993 for example. (Maybe in India, where they have overnight call centers...?)

      Electric lights? Air conditioning? Give me a break.

      What we have is an increasingly sedentary population that is eating increasingly more junk food. And smoking less, which is a good thing, but tobacco has one benefit of helping control weight gain. Three important factors, not one thing and not "oh it's everything."

    25. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Le+Marteau · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm sorry but it clearly is excess calories. If you burn more than you eat, you will lose weight. It's basic thermodynamics.

      No need to be sorry.

      Anyway, it is more complicated than "basic thermodynamics". You can't just take the calorie counts, as derived from a laboratory process, and say that is what your body is using.

      Not 100% of the caloric value of foods is burned. For example, feces has a caloric content. The caloric counts posted on packaging accounts for this, but it is only an approximation. And it is often wildly incorrect.

      So stop with the condescending "I'm sorry it's basic thermodynamics." It's more complicated than that for a number of reasons... I have only touched on one.

      --
      Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
    26. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2

      the TV switch, the car switch, the refrigerator switch. After those switches disconnect electrical energy,

      What the hell kind of car do you drive?

    27. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, that's the entire point of the article, that there is not a significant body of scientific evidence that supports eat less, do more as being the solution. Instead, there's a growing body of evidence that the major factors are something else entirely. The most convincing of which being that the average weight of animals is increasing at the same rate as the average weight of humans. And that this includes lab animals which are fed controlled diets and kept in controlled conditions, so we know they are not getting fatter due to either eating more or doing less.

    28. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it does not. That's an urban legend. Kindly STFU.

    29. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Vintermann · · Score: 2

      In practice though, our bodies have evolved to try *really* hard to extract as much energy as possible from the food we digest. To our detriment today, eating 500 kcals/day too much wouldn't matter if the body would just take "what it needs" and poop the rest.

      But there are still differences here. For instance, descendants of islanders get diabetes B more easily.

      It's not a given that lack of food was the primary driver of selection in our ancestors. Today's hunter-gatherers, who live in far more marginal areas than most of our ancestors did, still don't live at the edge of starvation by any means.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    30. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eat no high sugar foods and exercise mildly (5 to 10 mins per day vs. none). Worked for me, lost 22 pounds in 2 months and kept it off.

    31. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by jabuzz · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Perhaps true, but if you where to watch the U.K. Channel 4 program Secret Eaters you would come to understand that overweight people don't eat ~2000 Calories they eat *MUCH* more than that. For really obese people they eat more than double that.

      Not only that it clearly showed that obese people outright lie to themselves and others about how much food they consume.

      The basic premise of the program is the people keep a food diary of what they eat for a week, and the programme makers engage in 24/7 surveillance over the same period to record what they actually eat.

      The reality is that people are getting fatter because they are consuming more calories. You only need to look a Cuba to see it all playing out. The austerity brought about by the collapse of the Soviet Union the calorie intake dropped and people lost weight across the board. The economy recovered, calorie intake surged as did waist lines. That's peer reviewed research in a high impact journal dumass.

      http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f1515#ref-40

      In the end it *REALLY* is hard thermodynamics. If you are over weight unless you are suffering from a really really rare and invariably fatal genetic condition stop stuffing your face and exercise more and you WILL loose weight over the long term.

    32. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by hendrikboom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, in the GP's model, there is a limit.

      At less than 30 calories, you can no longer store 30 calories as fat.

      Actually, you hit that limit earlier unless you also stop pooping.

      -- hendrik

    33. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, no, in practice, that's not true at all. In practice, you can't simply eat 30 calories less per day and magically lose weight. In practice, people make "floaters", which are simply poops with lots of fat (and hence energy) in them.

      The practice of the situation is that your body does a lot of very complex stuff to try and regulate the right level of energy, the right level of storage etc. It doesn't simply try to extract everything it can.

      More so, many genetic and environmental factors can affect how your body choses to do that given any one set of circumstances.

    34. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thermodynamics can be applied to open systems. I would be very impressed if humans were impervious to thermodynamical analysis.

    35. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually your body can adjust it's metabolic rate. Calories in/Calories out isn't the simple equation you think it is.

      There's actually almost no evidence that calorie restriction diets work (in fact there is much more evidence in favor of low carb type diets).

      Sure, if you literally starve someone they will lose weight, but that's not what we are talking about

    36. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a true fat person.

    37. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound fat.

    38. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm currently on a weight loss diet (1500 calories per day) and also training for a marathon in October. It takes a huge amount of willpower to exercise when you're hungry/tired, but it is about willpower. When I stop a run before I plan to it's not because I fainted, or my body shut down, it's because I make a decision to quit.

    39. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by evilviper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's actually almost no evidence that calorie restriction diets work (in fact there is much more evidence in favor of low carb type diets).

      That's so idiotic it hurts my head to read it.

      ALL DIETS involve calorie restrictions. Low-fat diets, low-carb diets, Mediterranean diets, all-kelp diets, etc., they ALL involve reducing calorie intake as the fundamental first step in the diet program.

      No studies have shown any type of diet is more effective than any other (beyond the margin of error). Whether you follow Atkins, or the FDA pyramid, or Jenny Craig, or anything else, your chances of success are the same, and you'll lose the same amount of weight. It's the "diet" part, consuming slightly fewer calories, that causes the weight loss and health improvements.

      Calorie restriction ALWAYS works. There's no way for it not to. All the body reactions that can cause gains or reduce losses, are entirely temporary and rather short-term. And starving is never required... Just keeping yourself very slightly hungry for a few weeks, rather than stuffing your face at every opportunity.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    40. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I can't tell if:
      a) You don't like the use of the word "decide", to refer to a sequence of electrical and chemical interactions that result in something happening, similar to how a computer program can "decide" something without actually having will.
      b) You don't like the idea that poop contains calories (which it clearly does, "floaters" are in fact fat laden shits, the float because as I'm sure you know, oil/fat is less dense than water)
      c) You are just an idiot.

    41. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Taxeman · · Score: 1

      For the record I'm not in favor of starvation. I'm just using an extreme case to remind everyone here that basic conservation laws also apply to human beings. No calories can ever be 'created', and even in 'starvation mode' there's no way that in the long term you will gain weight if you spend more calories than you consume. Energy conservation provides a strong limit for the importance all other effects that play a role in weight gain/loss.

      There are indeed many factors playing a role in weight gain/loss. I have yet to see evidence that shows that the difference between the energy input and energy use is not the main one.

    42. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by microTodd · · Score: 1

      I can't decide if he's a, b, or c either. But I recall being surprised at finding out how many undigested calories really are in poop. And how and why fiber plays a role in that.

      --
      "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
    43. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Wrong, there is was this little experiment conducted on 11 million people living in the Caribbean. See results of this pear reviewed paper published in the British Medical Journal

      http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f1515#ref-40

      So eat less and do more *REALLY* does work. The people who don't think it works are in denial and want someone else to blame for the fact they are overweight.

    44. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yip the only method that worked for me is alternate day fasting according to the 5:2 schema (5 days normal eating, 2 days fasting).
      On fasting days I only eat 600 calories so this is what will sort of happen:

      At 600 calories, my body probably decides to
      - Use the 600 calories, this weirdly makes you feel more fit and alive, but also causes discomforts such as pains.
      - Use up 900 calories of your fat reserve, after 24 hours of no food fat reserves are starting to get used.
      - Poop, nope, nothing

      Then the next days on average you will use 10% more than a normal person, so say 2600 calories
      - Use 2000 for activities
      - Store 100
      - Poop 500.

      Average out over a week you start to use up your fat reserve. It is also really steady, I've lost 21 kg in 12 months time.

      Although you feel hunger on those fasting days, you can look forward to the next day, and think of the things you want to eat. Yesterday I fasted, today I just ate a few chocolate cookies :-)

      There are a lot more health benefits from alternate day fasting beyond the health benefits cause by weight reduction. Calorie restriction will reduce the speed at which we age, and will even reverse some ageing symptoms. Your body will start to repair cells when there is low amount of energy available, compared to simply replace them using cell division.

    45. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Taxeman · · Score: 1

      To this person, my proposal would be to measure your weight, and reduce your caloric intake until your weight is constant. Such a feedback loop will ensure that you don't gain weight. This means that eating in the traditional diet range is the solution. The article does not bring any data disputing this, and instead hints at the fact that some scientist investigate whether other factors might also play a role. BTW my suggestion isn't anything new, just do a google search for the 'Hacker's Diet'.

      Dieting cannot be thought of as a short term thing. Keeping your weight under control means not eating too much (calorie-wise) for the rest of your life.

    46. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by rand.srand() · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've manipulated my weight by over 30 pounds down and up since the beginning of the year. I've done it on a schedule based on calorie intake and burn measured carefully. I average 3.5 workout hours a week. I've spent just as much time eating over my calories burned as I have eating under. And I'm not eating superfoods or no carbs, or no fat, or whatever other fad... I'm eating pretty much the same stuff I always have just on a budget. My weight change has been impossible to detect day-to-day on the scale it's been so slow yet the total impact has been huge.

      For years I believed the calorie thing was bunk and indeed I managed my "weight" but got fatter and fatter with the scale largely in the same range. When my weight would go up I'd cut back and lose weight... but it didn't impact my physical dimensions. So last year I said that was it and decided to get serious.

      Losing weight is a mental task. It's the time and consistency that it takes that is so brutal. Society suffers from a negative feedback loop where everything promises quick results, and when you don't get them, it feels impossible. The reality is losing a pound a week of fat is rapid weight loss. And when your weight fluctuates by a few pounds a day it can take a long time for readily apparent results to show up. But if you stack up 26 weeks of weight loss you will feel like a champion and it didn't take superhuman effort on any given day to do it.

      Start today and by the end of the year you'll see major changes. Or you can keep doing what you are doing thinking the calorie math doesn't work and you will probably keep on the same trend line.

    47. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it doesn't a lot of research has gone into it. Long term hunger will cause your body to become more efficient in extracting energy from the food you take in.

      If you want to loose weight over a long period of time, you will need to stop your body to get into this mode. This is why alternate day fasting is very successful. On one day you are fasting with only 600 calories, in such a day you will get more than 24 hours of time where your body needs more energy than it receives and it will extract this from fat storage. The other days you get to eat normal and you aren't hungry and your body stops from going into efficiency mode.

    48. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    49. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Richard+Dick+Head · · Score: 1

      Great points, although it assumes no change in exercise regime. If you start running on a regular basis, the biological imperative to lose weight to run more efficiently (read: hunt more efficiently) is always an overriding factor.

      Unfortunately a person with bad knees and hips who has been obese all of their life isn't going to get much out of that fact :D Calorie restriction without exercise *works*, but it requires willpower AND some kind of stimulant (such as caffeine, smoking, etc). The latter will drive other health problems if it goes on too long, of course.

    50. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To this person, my proposal would be to measure your weight, and reduce your caloric intake until your weight is constant. Such a feedback loop will ensure that you don't gain weight.

      The point being that there are people for whom there is no such calorific input that doesn't involve starvation and other significant health impacts. Hence this article suggesting that, along with eating healthily and doing exercise, we need to be looking very carefully at what else is causing these people's bodies to store energy no matter what.

    51. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is, that while it's factually true that it's "more complicated" the message received is "it's not your fault that you're a fat slob, the trays of donuts aren't responsible, it's really somebody else's fault and you can't help it".

      Take a look at the XKCD about how the difficulty of getting into orbit is that you need to go REALLY REALLY FAST. Is that really all there is to it? No, it's actually pretty complicated. There are subtleties.

      BUT the subtle problems are dwarfed by the need to go REALLY REALLY FAST. And likewise the subtle interactions of diet are dwarfed by consuming far more food than you need. The chance that you're OBESE (not just a little flabby, not merely overweight, but OBESE) without having eaten too much food is microscopic, we could set up a specialist world centre just for treating the handful of such people. The majority reading this and chiming in "Yeah, you tell them" about how it's all the fault of agri-business and because we're not eating enough $50 per kilo hand picked locally sourced whatever the latest fad is, they got fat because they ate too much food and they should eat less food. Keep the subtle "it's more complicated" for when they're wondering why they lost 4.8kg last year but their friend managed to lose 5.6kg with the same diet.

    52. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by DogDude · · Score: 1

      (Thermodynamics as a law hasn't failed, it is still true for bodies, but they reasoning that fat loss is just about calorie counting and exercise has failed.)

      This doesn't make any sense. Either the laws of thermodynamics apply, or they don't. (Actually, they DO apply to human bodies, thus cutting back on calories absolutely does lead to weight loss).

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    53. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Taxeman · · Score: 1

      The point being that there are people for whom there is no such calorific input that doesn't involve starvation and other significant health impacts.

      The very well documented, very significant health impacts of obesity, need to be compared with any possible significant health impacts of dieting.

      Hence this article suggesting that, along with eating healthily and doing exercise, we need to be looking very carefully at what else is causing these people's bodies to store energy no matter what.

      The problem here is that most fat people don't eat healthily, and don't exercise enough. Even if there are people for whom such a 'constant weight' threshold does not exist (or would otherwise lead to other health issues), these people do not constitute the bulk of the problem. By trying to explain every single case, one loses the most important part of the message.

    54. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you hit that limit earlier unless you also stop pooping.

      ... everybody poops.

    55. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Anyway, it is more complicated than "basic thermodynamics". You can't just take the calorie counts, as derived from a laboratory process, and say that is what your body is using.

      No, it isn't and yes, you can.

      Your brilliant counter, "poop has calories", whatever that's supposed to mean, has no bearing on the basic laws of physics. Eat fewer calories, and you will lose weight.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    56. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thus cutting back on calories , all else being equal, absolutely does lead to weight loss

      FTFY. All else is not equal. You cut back on calories, your body cuts back on burning them. You run slower, lift less, jog a shorter distance. You tire out sooner.

    57. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by eth1 · · Score: 1

      This... and everyone's body is a little different. I've always equated losing/managing weight to "hacking" your metabolism. If you pay attention to what you eat/do, and how your body responds, you can eventually learn to get it to do what you want, assuming you have the discipline to make it happen.

    58. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somehow you seem to have missed the "basic thermodynamics" part of "basic thermodynamics." You're going to have to eat less and use the same amount. The problem with the "basic thermodynamics" argument is that it requires you to maintain metabolism (which you seem to have ignored, conveniently). Moreover, you must BE HUNGRY. It ignores the psychology of peoples' actions, which is surprisingly important (I know, who woulda though?).

    59. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's usually "eat less crap, do more exercise," and one article suggesting that there are lots of factiors doesn't counter the decades of research demontstrating that this advice almost always leads to longer, healthier lives.

      I will agree with your last point though. People who blame the complicated environment for their problems tend to have a lot of problems, and people who decide that they can and will fix their problems, even if it means changing themselves or their environment, tend to be better off.

    60. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by fearofcarpet · · Score: 1

      If I might add to your spot-on assertions: There was a documentary on obesity called The Weight of the Nation that quite clearly explains the differences in basal metabolic rates between two people.

      Two women of the same size and weight are sitting at a table drinking tea (or whatever). One consumes 2000 calories a day as she always has and has never had a weight problem. The other struggled with weight her whole life and eventually dieted to get down to her current weight. She consumes 1300 calories a day to maintain that weight. The difference is in their base metabolic needs; the naturally thin woman is less calorie efficient than the dieting woman. Thus, if they eat the same amount of food--2000 calories a day--one women will keep her same weight, while the other will start gaining. That is also the core of the "yo-yo diet" problem.

      There are all kinds of other examples, such as Native American populations that have lived off of fish and basic agriculture for centuries becoming obese and struggling with diabetes and heart disease because they gained access to McDonald's, while the near-by white populations remained unchanged.

      I think that people confuse the fact that a calorie deficit will necessarily lead to weight loss with a linear relationship between food intake and metabolized calories when in reality everyone's ability to metabolize food into calories is different.

      --
      Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
    61. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by fearofcarpet · · Score: 2

      youre body doesnt "decide" to poop out calories. who the hell taught you biology?

      Food moves through the intestine at roughly a constant rate. If it takes more time to absorb calories than it does to make it to the colon, then those calories don't make it into your bloodstream. That is why liquid calories are so dangerous; they are very efficiently absorbed and don't contain the fiber, etc. necessary to feel full.

      --
      Actually, I wrote my thesis on life experience.
    62. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut the fuck up.

      Wake up before sunrise, hop to the fields with 40 pounds of agricultural utensils on your back, work the fields for twelve hours until the sun sets, get back home and milk the cows, clean the stables and feed the livestock, then go to sleep. Keep this up for a year and you will be a walking stick, while eating in excess of 4000 calories per day.

      Agriculture not your style? Try swimming. 2-300 laps per training session, 5 days a week. You'll be vacuuming close to 10000 calories daily and struggling to keep your your weight up.

      Too much? Ride your bike or walk to work. 20 kilometers on a road bike uses up about 1000 calories. That's an hour of bike riding each day at an average pace. Also skip dinner until you reach your desired weight.

      First paragraph was my childhood. Second paragraph was my adolescence. Third paragraph was adulthood after losing 80 pounds gained after I started working a desk job and got a car but still kept my swimming days eating habits. Heck, I GAINED weight while serving my time in the army while most were thinning down.

      Yeah, I know, everybody's different.

      Up to a point.

      Beyond that, it may not be fun but it's pure communism.

    63. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Any pithy "It's this one thing [someone] did [somewhere]" comment is highly ignorant

      Well, then it fits right into a discussion on health and wellness with all the other ignorance and speculation.

    64. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So no, it's not simply a matter of telling overweight people "eat less, do more". It's not that simple.

      Yes it is. If you were exercising, you wouldn't just use 1200 of 1500 calories (your 3rd example), you'd use whatever you use through exercise. And if you use more than you take in, your body needs to use some of its fat to make up the difference, and you lose weight. It IS that simple.

    65. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Several points:
        * you don't poop out the calories, you exhale them
        * it is simple thermodynamics—if you eat three peanuts a day, you will get thin
        * the key is not to trust your instincts, which will make you fat—you will need to follow a diet
        * it's got everything to do with your willpower—getting fat feels orgastic, dieting makes you miserable
        * the main societal reason for getting fat is access to food

    66. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point actually is that you in many cases *can not* force your body to use more than you eat in a way that doesn't ultimately result actually in either weight gain, and/or more health complications.

      Yes, you can. It's called a diet. And millions of people do it. If you eat fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight. You might have trouble getting to that point (you might not like the diet, or you might 'feel tired', etc), but once you reach it, you Will Lose Weight.

      Now, many don't have the willpower to keep doing it, but that's a different matter.

    67. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is simple Thermo, but the equations are not.

      Our metabolic rate is a function of the calories we consume.

      You can try this yourself. Go on a restricted calorie diet for about 3 days... say 25% less then you need. On the forth day, have a dessert for lunch. While eating the dessert you will feel your body warm up.

    68. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by be951 · · Score: 1

      Excellent. Then please explain the similar rise in body weight of lab animals, given that:

      "In fact, lab animals’ lives are so precisely watched and measured that the researchers can rule out accidental human influence: records show those creatures gained weight over decades without any significant change in their diet or activities."

    69. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by SpectreBlofeld · · Score: 1

      One thing the article didn't mention: the rise of hormones and pharmaceuticals in the water supply, and in the food we eat:

      http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/pharmawater_site/day1_01.html

      And there's issue of cattle being given hormones to stimulate growth/milk production; hormones that will be present in the issue we consume. Nobody really understands the ensuing effects on our overall health, as all of this is relatively new. It's speculated that hormones ingested by pregnant women have developmental effects on unborn children. Perhaps both humans and the test animals are seeing a correlative rise in obesity because they are second-or-third generation, after the Great Hormone Floods began...

    70. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      Calorie restriction ALWAYS works. There's no way for it not to. All the body reactions that can cause gains or reduce losses, are entirely temporary and rather short-term. And starving is never required... Just keeping yourself very slightly hungry for a few weeks, rather than stuffing your face at every opportunity.

      Except that it never works, because your brain will keep telling you that you need more food, so eventually you stop your diet, all the weight comes back, and then some more because your brain remembers bad times with no food available so it makes sure you have some extra reserves for the next time food gets scarce.

    71. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're examples represent eat less, exercise less. Not the same as "eat less, exercise more."

      A person who actually burns 500 calories more than they eat on a regular basis will lose weight very quickly, no matter how complicated you try to make the rest of the equation. That's just physics.

      Other nutritional details may affect your health, other factors may influence your psychology, the empathy of "thin people" might alter who you choose as friends, but the thermodynamics observation is neither incorrect nor subject to further complication.

    72. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Bongo · · Score: 1

      Heh, I for one lost the bit of excess weight I had put on after 40. My weight reduced 12 per cent and I am back to the lean 20 year old I was.

    73. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And also, most of our energy is used in the base metabolic rate. The body can adjust that a little here, a little there.

      Actually, that can be adjusted *significantly*, if you work out regularly and in the right heart rate zones.

      For example, I burn 20 kcals/minute at a heart rate of around 160 BPM while running. Someone completely untrained burns around 4-5 kcals/minute at a heart rate of 150 BPM while doing the exact same thing. Can you guess what our relative base metabolic rates are? It's the reason I can eat 3000 - 3500 kcals per day and *lose* weight, whereas the untrained person could eat 1500 kcals per day and *gain* weight.

      There is something to eating the right foods. I don't eat 3000 - 3500 kcals of crap, to be sure, which certainly helps.

      But instead of recognising the conventional energy-balance model has failed, "common sense" blames it on "lack of will power".
      (Thermodynamics as a law hasn't failed, it is still true for bodies, but they reasoning that fat loss is just about calorie counting and exercise has failed.)

      It's "lack of willpower" or "laziness" or "lack of discipline" in sticking to an exercise regimen, for most people. Most people can afford to work out for 30-45 minutes 3x per week. Most people don't, then complain about how it's so difficult to lose weight. "Have you tried exercising 3-5 times per week for 30-45 minutes at a time?" "Oh I know that won't work for me." "Have you tried?" "No." "..."

    74. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Larryish · · Score: 1

      An electric car?

    75. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or more likely

      At 0 calories input, your body may well decide to do the following:
      - Use only 750 calories
      - store -250 calories
      - muscle mass -500 calories
      - poop 0 calories.

    76. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Jesrad · · Score: 1

      The reality is that people are getting fatter because they are consuming more calories.

      No, they are not. Americans are consuming less calories and exercising more yet they are getting fatter.

      Saying "It's the thermodynamics" does not help understand the process at all, it's just a restatement of its end result. "You are getting fatter" is nothing but a paraphrase of "your body is accruing calories", and holds zero insight. It does not explain why cows can be selectively bred to be fatter or leaner, it doesn't explain lipodystrophies - especially the progressive forms where only half of the body gets obese. That's why trying to get lean by eating less works so poorly: it has little to no impact on the underlying cause.

      --
      Maybe we deserve this world ?
    77. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess what, this is patently false. Low-carb diets don't mean you consume less calories because fat & protein are high in energy density. And guess what again: a lot of low-carb diets replace carbohydrates with those same fats & proteins so no, you DON'T consume less calories.

      We all really should understand by now that sugar = carbs = sugar and calling *not* eating something we have only started eating 1000-5000 years ago (and on this scale 70 years ago) a diet is really not doing the cause a favour.

      There is no better evidence and more elegant hypothesis than the carbs hypothesis. Supported by all the tribes still running around not eating them.

    78. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thermodymanics does not take into account hormones and how the body stores and uses energy. Your second paragraph, essentially, contradicts your first by rightly saying that the way you use or discard the calories is a complex system. It is not calories in / calories out. It is calories used vs calories spent. This is why some people can consume significantly more calories of the same type and not gain weight, while others gain weight quickly.

      Gary Taub's book: "Good Calories, Bad Calories" goes into this in a ton of scientific detail. It is a fascinating read.

    79. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Mr.+Flibble · · Score: 1

      To be fair, both people are right.

      It *IS* basic thermodynamics. After all, everything is, you can't escape that.

      However, the margin of error is greatly skewed by other environmental factors. So, a 100 calorie per day change may not be outside the margin of error of other factors. What is required is enough change to all the variables to account for the margin of error, which in the case of weight gain and calorie counts is rather large.

      --
      Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
    80. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by immaterial · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear. This is exactly what I did last year to lose 60 pounds over 6 months. Everyone wanted to know what brand of wacky diet and/or exercise regimen I was on; I'm a lazy fucker who hates exercise and my deist consisted of eating everything I like to eat, just eating less of it! Dinners in particular - I love to cook delicious meals or go out to nice restaurants, and I didn't stop doing either one.

      Ate a very small breakfast, even smaller lunch (often half a bag of popcorn - filling but ~120 calories), and had a normal meal for dinner, except for not ordering any more appetizers. And no more midnight snacks - I might go to sleep slightly hungry, but I was no less hungry on waking than I'd have been if I had snacked.

    81. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably the poopsmith.

    82. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Calories In > Calories Out + Calories Burned

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    83. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can, if your body decides to make you depressed and less active, hence burning less for energy.

    84. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      assuming you have the discipline to make it happen.

      Assuming you have the discipline is a moral judgment. Discipline is the result of brain processes. Brain processes, and the processes the disclipine directs one to do, all require energy. Having the energy to do all that requires a relatively well functioning energy metabolism. Some people do not have that. Please stop jumping to judgements.

    85. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 2

      You can try this yourself. Go on a restricted calorie diet for about 3 days... say 25% less then you need. On the forth day, have some sugar water fed to you by IV, since you had vasovagal syncope on day 3 and are under observation at the hospital.

      FTFY.

    86. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      thus cutting back on calories absolutely does lead to weight loss

      Not necessarily. It could instead lead to depression and inability to excercise or otherwise function, lower metabolic rate, or greater digestive efficiency. Among other things.

    87. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      The point isn't about whether you'll feel depressed or tired, it's about conservation of energy.

      That's like saying a car can burn more gas if it travels more miles, but the point isn't about whether the car's engine is turned on or whether it is in gear, or whether it even has tires.

    88. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      And I'm glad for you that your metabolism is such that you actually experience willpower. Some of us do not react that way. You may encounter that personally someday if you ever get into an uncontrollable depression and this "willpower" you have suddenly vanishes without a trace or clue as to how to restore it, through no failing of your own. I hope you do not have to go that far, and will stop ego-tripping on your own "willpower" long enough to realize that there are people in this world who just are not wired the same way you are, for a variety of reasons both environmental and inherited.

    89. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      The problem here is that most fat people don't eat healthily, and don't exercise enough.

      You obviously have never watched a fat housemate eat twice as healthy and half as much as you, and get more excercise, and yet still remain fat.

      Stop talking out your ass, you know nothing.

    90. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      Please define willpower in a manner that does not rely on a healthy metabolism and psychological wellbeing.

      You should appreciate that you are gifted with a sense of will that allows you to accomplish things by pushing yourself. Gifted. Not everyone recieved that gift.

      So stop being a prick about it.

    91. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      ALL DIETS involve calorie restrictions. Low-fat diets, low-carb diets, Mediterranean diets, all-kelp diets, etc., they ALL involve reducing calorie intake as the fundamental first step in the diet program.

      This statement is demonstrably false.

    92. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 0

      Yay. Sweeping generalizations based on a reality TV show. Thanks for lowering the bar even further.

    93. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by be951 · · Score: 1

      More detail. Per the quote, calories in and calories burned are not changing, which implies that "calories out" is decreasing. What is "calories out" and why is it going down?

    94. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Or muscle. When you start a restricted caloric intake diet your bodies first reaction is to "eat" excess muscle, and this means any muscle not actively being used every single day.

    95. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by DogDude · · Score: 1

      You do understand that there's a continuum between eating more that you need and becoming fat and not eating enough and starving to death, right? It isn't as complicated as people make it out to be. It's pretty goddamned simple. People work hard to make it seem complicated and mysterious so that they have an excuse that they can tell themselves.

      Sure, as one ages, one's metabolism slows down. What's your point?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    96. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't. Telling such a person to do something is not going to make them do it. Firstly because they are very likely too depressed to respond, or remember the hell that hapenned to them the last time they tried to follow the advice of some jerk who thinks just because it worked for him it will work on everyone else too.

      Stop trying to make a compicated issue simple. It just is not. Maybe you cannot wrap your brain around it, but other people can and just showing up to say "it's simple" and saying some trite thing doesn't help those other people discuss the matter any better.

    97. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      So if you want to reduce your weight, either put less mass in, or make sure more mass goes out.

      And don't complain that my version is an useless oversimplification

      Your version is an useless oversimplification

      At least not without explaining why your version is not. Especially given that the whole story is about the claim that it is. By people who most probably know more about the subject than you do.

      Funny you should mention that, because thiose very same people seem to be suggesting that other ways to lose weight might be things like avoiding BPA or other such chemicals, changing your intesinal flora, not using artificial light, or being treated for a virus or bacteriological infection (unfortunately probably an untreatable one at this point in time.)

    98. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by skids · · Score: 1

      And there's issue of cattle being given hormones to stimulate growth/milk production; hormones that will be present in the issue we consume.

      Some are, but you shouldn't just assume it.

      Hormone analogues are scarier. They've already started to ban BPA-producing plastics in food containers in some countries. U.S. will probably be last to do so, because we suck at getting corporations to do anything even remotely helpful to humanity as a whole.

    99. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by DogDude · · Score: 1

      You're right. All of those things can happen, but to a point. Burning 0 calories is called "death". There's a large range between death and overeating, regardless of what one's burn rate is.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    100. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, cutting back on calories has a pretty good chance of leading to weight gain: the body interprets less food coming in as a crisis situation and converts as much energy as possible to fat in order to increase the chances of surviving the crisis. Yes, this is something human bodies actually do. Of course thermodynamics means that either less energy is being wasted or the person's body will be using less energy somehow (maybe they'll get tired really easily / sleep more).

    101. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you stop your diet if you had not reached your goal? You're not an animal, you don't have to do what "your brain keeps telling you"

    102. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Lendrick · · Score: 1

      That's a perfect summation of the entire article. Where he disagrees is the claim that consumption is irrelevant because of this.

      Had you read the article, you would know that it specifically says that consumption is relevant.

    103. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by be951 · · Score: 1

      You do understand that there's a continuum between eating more that you need and becoming fat and not eating enough and starving to death, right?

      Yes. You postulated that:

      Calories In > Calories Out + Calories Burned

      explains the weight gain that has been observed in several species over the last several decades. In the example I cited, Calories In and Calories Burned are stable over time, but body weight is not. Thus, "Calories Out" is the only variable left in your formula and must therefore be responsible for the increasing body weight of the lab animals in question. I asked you to explain what it represents and why it has changed over time. If it's "pretty goddamned simple", it should be no problem for you to explain it.

    104. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The solution itself is simple (eat less, exercise more). Whether or not the person actually follows that solution is complex, and completely up to them.

      But, no matter the personal issues the person may have, the solution itself is still a simple one.

    105. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's for the starter motor!

    106. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but it clearly is excess calories. If you burn more than you eat, you will lose weight. It's basic thermodynamics.

      Only for people with no anus.

    107. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Funny, when I did the Atkins diet, I lost ~50 lbs while at he same time INCREASING my caloric intake by about 500 calories a day. I was freaking gorging myself on huge amounts of yummy yummy face food.

    108. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by mrhippo3 · · Score: 1

      There is also the other factor of the diet issue, EXERCISE. This has changed because of the new "nanny state" where kids are not allowed to play outside. One article in the UK told of how in their grandparents era, kids would ride their bikes (or walk) to a pond miles away, spend the day and then ride/walk back home. The parents were perhaps allowed to go to town (a still smaller circle). Now kids are lucky to be allowed on the street to go to end of their cul-de-sac. Most kids are confined to a yard, if that. Zero travel and limited indoor play equals low calorie burn. Fat is no surprise.
      I am a dedicated cyclist and will regularly ride a short 34 (but quick) miles or so in about 2 hours with hills. For these rides I will drink a sports beverage but that still leaves a calorie deficit of 1,500 or so. I have learned to balance how much I ride with what I eat. Irony alert. I love the folks who will burn less than the calorie count of the sports beverage trudging on a treadmill, consume the entire beverage and then complain about the taste, all while violating the rule of burn more than you consume if you want to lose weight. My mantra is, "If you can complain about the taste, then you are not tired enough to NEED a sports drink."

    109. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But no matter what, it cannot store more than [amount eaten] - [amount used], as an upper limit.

    110. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's only 2 things people need to know:

      Diet is for Health
      Exercise is for weightloss

      Each will help improve the other but will never achieve the same results. Working on both will give the best outcome possible. Millions of people try to lose weight by doing nothing other than dieting. They'll lose a few pounds up front but the body will freak out and start storing more rather than burning more and the lack of exercise will ultimately result in weight gain. Conversely (LOL, not even sure what that word means), exercising will cause great weight loss and result in your body reacting quickly to what you eat. If you start by exercising you will find yourself making changes to your diet without even realizing it. Hence, exercise is the single most critical factor to losing weight.

    111. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by DogDude · · Score: 1

      I have no idea. I didn't read the study. I'm not going to assume that some non-referenced study that I haven't read throws the entire state of Standard Physics into doubt, though. More than likely, the study was bad, or the results attributed to said study were bad.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    112. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry but it clearly is excess calories. If you burn more than you eat, you will lose weight. It's basic thermodynamics.

      Basic thermodynamics is exactly as applicable to normal human growth as it is to fattening. So if a child is suffering from giganticism, is it really just a matter of excess calories? Yes, thermodynamics dictates that if you starve such a child, they will not grow as much, just as inadequate nutrition will stunt the growth of a normal child. But is starvation or increased physical activity a cure for giganticism? Is overeating or sedentary behavior the cause? If the answer to those questions are "no, giganticism is a hormonal problem", then there is no reason to believe that obesity is merely a matter of willful energy conservation.

      This misguided "fact" is a large part of why obesity research is in such a sorry state of affairs, because all too many researchers never questioned the idea that a simple law of physics that says nothing about causality is the final word on the causes and cures for a complex biological problem.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    113. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Mister_Stoopid · · Score: 1

      That statement is true in the most pedantic, literal way possible. It's also completely and utterly useless to someone trying to lose weight, since nobody knows what their calories burned number is or how it will change in response to a change in diet or exercise (or climate, or stress, or sleep, or illness, or monthly hormonal changes, or literally anything else).

      Yes, you're correct that you can look at literally 100% of people who lost weight and say "they ate less than they burned!!", but that doesn't mean that telling a fat person to "eat less than they burn" is in any way helpful, since the only way to determine how much you burn is to keep track of your calories in and how much weight you've lost over a particular time period, then calculate your burn rate after the fact.

      It's like someone asking you how they can make money, and you tell them "It's simple math, you just have to buy low and sell high, you fucking retard!"

    114. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      40 chicken wings a day!

    115. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      That's exactly backward. Your body composition is something like 80% determined at the dinner table.

    116. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      I'm glad you found something that worked for you.

      However, for anyone else out there wondering where to start, I lost 80 pounds in seven months by eliminating carbohydrate from my diet. Fanatically. I ate under 10 g per day. I've relaxed that to 20-40 g/day now that I'm at goal weight so I can have a little more onion, occasional bit of fruit, etc. My experience has been that I am much happier than I ever was by trying to count calories directly, that my energy levels are considerably higher, and that it is much easier to handle cravings than hunger, which is ultimately the benefit of nutritional ketosis. I did not exercise at all until goal weight was achieved (family history of bad joints, don't want to push it). And my experience is not atypical - many keto dieters find that they lose 10-25 lbs the first month and 8-10 thereafter. My wife's exact words were, "You're melting away".

    117. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Im amazed at how people still deny this. Its like, the simplest of things. The human body doesnt run on voodoo and sunlight. If that was the case there would be obese starving people all over the place. People just refuse to accept responsibility for anything these days, not even their own bodies.

    118. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Long term hunger will cause your body to become more efficient in extracting energy from the food you take in.

      No, it's the short-term sudden starvation that causes your body to retain every calorie it can. Long slow calorie reduction is very effective.

      This is why alternate day fasting is very successful.

      Show me a single controlled study that shows fasting is significantly (better than the margin of error) more effective than conventional diets over a medium or long-term basis. Otherwise, I will now dismiss you as a loon and go on with my day.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    119. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by sjames · · Score: 1

      And that's the problem. Some people can eat 25% less and the fat reserves get tapped and they lose weight. Others will just feel run down and then get sick before their metabolism will go to the fat reserves.

      There are even some people who wish they could gain weight, but they have the opposite problem.

    120. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by sjames · · Score: 1

      And you will feel exhausted and depressed the entire time and for the rest of your life, OH GOODY! That is SO worth it to gain your approval!!

      And of course, you can't be wrong because you saw it on TV, the natural source of all knowledge and wisdom.

    121. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post is so idiotic it hurts my head to read it.

      Calorie restriction does not always work. If you are eating a well-balanced diet of 2000 kcal/day, and you go on a calorie restriction diet that lowers that to 1500 kcal/day but now you are eating shitty meals with lots of refined carbs and sugars, you will get fat.

      If you are eating a shitty diety of 2000 kcal/day, consisting of lots of simple carbs and sugars, and you change to a healthy diet of 2000 kcal/day, now consisting mainly of beans, vegetables, and lean meats, you will lose bodyfat without restricting your calories.

      Not all diets involve calorie restrictions. Fool.

    122. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's more complicated than that for a number of reasons... I have only touched on one.

      I hope you washed your hands.

    123. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Eivind · · Score: 1

      I never claimed everyone will react the same way to the same stimuli, certainly we're different. Two people may both smoke, but only one of them gets cancer. Two might both overeat sugar, but only one gets diabetes.

    124. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by lancelet · · Score: 1

      Yes... do the math. Training for a marathon (running ~50km per week) only burns around 3400 Cal / week. This is equivalent to about 1.5 days of average total energy requirement. So, even fairly hard-core training could only increase the amount of food you could eat and remain energy-neutral by around 20%.

      So, you could ask yourself which might be easier: cutting back your food by 20% or training for a marathon? I personally do a bit of both, and enjoy running a lot, but staying slightly hungry is probably an easier proposition.

    125. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Eivind · · Score: 1

      That's not surprising. First, at 30 kcal/day, even if burn-rate was *entirely* contant, it'd take 100 days to drop a single pound. Even in a lab, controlling the diet of a person to within 1% margin over more than 3 months is close-to-impossible.

      Secondly, your metabolism ain't *that* stable, nor is your level of physical activity. You burn 50-100 kcals a day just by fidgeting, it's hardly possible to accurately measure precicely how much people fidget over months.

      A lot of other factors ranging from daylight-hours to temperature to how many days you where at work over those 3 months also influence your energy burn-rate.

    126. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by evilviper · · Score: 1

      If you are eating a well-balanced diet of 2000 kcal/day, and you go on a calorie restriction diet that lowers that to 1500 kcal/day but now you are eating shitty meals with lots of refined carbs and sugars, you will get fat.

      That's entirely impossible, and utter nonsense. A calorie is THE measure of how much energy food has, and cutting it down below the baseline of WHAT YOU NEED will NEVER result in any (non-water) weight gain.

      The difference in the digestibility of different foods is NOWHERE NEAR as dramatic as you imagine it to be.

      Not all diets involve calorie restrictions.

      Yes they do. Some are explicit (measuring your food), and some are implicit ("You can eat all the SALAD you want!"), but ALL are intended to reduce your calorie consumption.

      Go educate yourself, rather than arguing.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    127. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      If you had bothered to read the rest of my post, you would have seen that actually it is not a sweeping generalization, based on a reality TV show. I cited a peer reviewed paper published in one of the top medical journals in the world to *PROVE* my point. An involuntary experiment carried out on 11 million people That said the reality TV show is important because it shows that the amount of calories people consume is more than they think.

      There is another reality TV show by Channel 4 in the U.K. called Supersize vs Superskinny that pairs very obese people with the severely underweight. Without exception the very obese people basically stuff their faces with huge portions and huge amounts of food.

      I have no problem with anyone being overweight. What I do have a problem with is people who are overweight blaming everyone else but themselves for consuming more calories than they require for the level of activity that they personally are engaged in.

    128. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      The first link says that obesity rates in the USA has stabilized and in some cities is reducing. So thanks for reinforcing my argument. I would point out that as the first article says the reduction in *average* calorie intake is fairly insignificant 76 calories a day less for girls for example, yet is having an impact.

      The other issue is that these are *AVERAGE* calorie intakes. This does not rule out the very real issue of polarization of American society into "fatties and thinnies". So it is perfectly possible for the average calorie consumption to drop while the percentage of obese people increase. Although your none peer reviewed references (and I contrast that to my peer reviewed reference) indicate that obesity rates have been effected.

      Anyone who claims that cutting calories and increasing exercise does not lead to weight loss in the long term is claiming that the most fundamental laws of physics are wrong. Consequently I treat such views with the disinterest bordering on contempt they deserve.

    129. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      I have just bothered to read the second article about exercise, entitled "Americans exercise more, but are still not losing *MUCH* weight", emphasis mine. Again it actually goes to prove my point. Also with only ~51% of men sufficiently active that allows for 49% of men to be inactive and obese.

      The point of the peer reviewed article I linked to is that everyone across the board in Cuba suffered almost overnight a drop in calorie intake and an increase in activity, which lead to a decrease in weight.

    130. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by be951 · · Score: 1

      I have no idea.

      Wait. I thought it was simple? Or maybe accurately modelling the energy balance of complex organisms is too complex to represent with three variables? Going back to something you said before:

      People work hard to make it seem complicated and mysterious so that they have an excuse that they can tell themselves.

      It think it is more the opposite. People (like you) try to make it seem much less complicated than it actually is so they can look down on and/or make fun of fat people.

    131. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by entmike · · Score: 1

      Not true. It's not how much you consume, it's what you consume. If you do not understand this, you miss the entire point. LC diets change how your body gets its energy. Do some actual reading, as this DOES have hard scientific evidence to substantiate it. It is not simply calories in vs. calories out.

    132. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by microTodd · · Score: 1

      You seriously think that skipping one meal a day for 4 days will make you faint and put you in the hospital?

      --
      "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
    133. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by ULTRAJOE · · Score: 1

      Nissan Leaf!

    134. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by quantaman · · Score: 1

      There's actually almost no evidence that calorie restriction diets work (in fact there is much more evidence in favor of low carb type diets).

      That's so idiotic it hurts my head to read it.

      ALL DIETS involve calorie restrictions. Low-fat diets, low-carb diets, Mediterranean diets, all-kelp diets, etc., they ALL involve reducing calorie intake as the fundamental first step in the diet program.

      No studies have shown any type of diet is more effective than any other (beyond the margin of error). Whether you follow Atkins, or the FDA pyramid, or Jenny Craig, or anything else, your chances of success are the same, and you'll lose the same amount of weight. It's the "diet" part, consuming slightly fewer calories, that causes the weight loss and health improvements.

      Calorie restriction ALWAYS works. There's no way for it not to. All the body reactions that can cause gains or reduce losses, are entirely temporary and rather short-term. And starving is never required... Just keeping yourself very slightly hungry for a few weeks, rather than stuffing your face at every opportunity.

      It's not quite that simple.

      At the end of the day you can't beat input vs output but that doesn't mean you have to be hungry, some diets like low carb and/or high protein tend to lead to spontaneous caloric restriction, ie people are simply less hungry and eat fewer foods.

      Another strategy is bland foods, say you want to eat 2500 kcal/day. Doing that on pasta, cake, and cookies you're probably going to fail. But looking at a bunch of raw broccoli tends to keep your appetite in check.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    135. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Jesrad · · Score: 1

      Thanks for missing my point entirely. Let's retry.

      I completely agree with you that "less calories stored = losing weight", and that wherever there is thinning observed it will be linked to a more favourable balance between calories in and calories out. I'm not trying to contest thermodynamics.

      My point is that it works the other way to that you infer incorrectly from the link between the two.

      --
      Maybe we deserve this world ?
    136. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Huh? Why do you think that eating 25% fewer calories than are required would trigger a vasovagal response?

      Anyway, a vasovagal syncope doesn't typically require medical attention (or inpatient hospitalization!).

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    137. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      I can't decide if he's a, b, or c either. But I recall being surprised at finding out how many undigested calories really are in poop. And how and why fiber plays a role in that.

      What role does fiber play in that? Just curious.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    138. Re:Failure to even Attempt to process the article. by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Calorie restriction without exercise *works*, but it requires willpower AND some kind of stimulant (such as caffeine, smoking, etc).

      Why does calorie restriction without exercise require a stimulant?

      I'm just curious. I've noticed that empirically (I use caffeine), but I didn't know that it applied to those other than me.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
  9. Obesity can come in handy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    whales also have Obesity they die with out it.

  10. Seriously, what the fuck is this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A link to a sociology blog and a hipster blog?

    What is this shit?

  11. Games and Beer by ciderbrew · · Score: 4, Funny

    Late late nights, Games, Beer and doing fuck all about it for years. But they are symptoms of depression and wanting escapism. A knee injury doesn't help. Also, a dumb sense of being able to lose a few KG with magic when I finally get the motivation to put the effort in. But Skyrim and Arkham Asylum have to take some blame, they should have sucked more so I could put them down.
    Thanks for asking.

    1. Re:Games and Beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm carrying a knee injury at the moment, I've had to start doing chin-ups to make up for the lack of exercise (I've hardly been able to walk the last six weeks) I suspect I've actually lost weight due to lack of appetite from not moving about enough.

    2. Re:Games and Beer by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      "I used to be slim like you..."

    3. Re:Games and Beer by m00sh · · Score: 1

      In certain cultures, the suggested way to lose weight is to stay in the couch/bed. If you are active, it sparks appetite. If you stay in bed, it kills your appetite.

      I wonder why we have the exact opposite belief.

    4. Re:Games and Beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to be an adventurer like you ...

    5. Re:Games and Beer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Late late nights, Games, Beer and doing fuck all about it for years. But they are symptoms of depression and wanting escapism. A knee injury doesn't help.
      Also, a dumb sense of being able to lose a few KG with magic when I finally get the motivation to put the effort in. But Skyrim and Arkham Asylum have to take some blame, they should have sucked more so I could put them down.

      Thanks for asking.

      I've started looking at my weight, I hit 13st1 (183lb) and thought "enough is enough". Too many nights in hotels with resturant food.

      I went away for 5 days. Every night I ate steak and veg as usual, but didn't have the potatoes. Rounded off with 3 beers. Sandwich at lunchtime, I don't usually do breakfast.

      I got home, I'd lost 3 lbs.

      For me, at the moment, it seems the "beer and beef" diet works, so I can't complain too much.

      This week has been Crocodile + baked potato, Ostrich and some wierd potato thing, and tonight will be steak, so I'm not holding out much hope.

    6. Re:Games and Beer by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "Skyrim and Arkham Asylum have to take some blame"
      no, they don't. It's like a couch potato blaming the couch.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:Games and Beer by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Because the first belief is a belief, and the second one is a fact.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:Games and Beer by swilly · · Score: 1

      This deserves some Funny mods, but I seem to be out of them at the moment.

  12. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  13. the study seems defeatist by nimbius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    more data should be required before we make such a broad spectrum 'everything is getting fat because of everything' claim, which is absolutely as absurd as it sounds. In the cases of laboratory controlled animals, im willing to venture a sedentary and stressful lifestyle has accumulated their girth.
    in the case of people, we've stopped eating real food entirely for both convenience and lack of nutritional education. Some of us work odd hours or multiple jobs and just dont have time to cook. places like wendys offer a reasonable facimile of food but the ingredients list for even a hamburger bun starts to look more like the back pages of an organic chemistry lab book. Most 30somethings like myself havent the slightest idea, nor care, about how to cook their own food outside of a cardboard box and boil-point water. And packaged food companies agree this is the way it should be. There is no more home economics, we emerge from primary education with no more than an understanding of hunger and satiation.

    I also think its a cultural thing. Jamie Oliver, for all the work hes done in targeting childhood obesity and healthy eating, still cooks an alarming number of recipes that youd never think to serve the majority of a populus thats overweight. This holds true for most chefs, celebrity or not. Browned butter and whole cream are still entirely acceptable additions to most semi-casual and upscale dining experiences despite the well proven fact theyre killing us. There are only four meats we readily consume on a daily basis yet theyve replaced hundreds of vegetables in nearly every meal of the day. Many adults simply avoid healthy vegetables like onions, tomatoes or broccoli alltogether, picking from their meal and instead focusing on pasta or meat.

    articles like this that just throw in the proverbial towel arent helping. We need competent nutritional education and responsible industry to start offering food that is both nutritious and healthy. Yet as with most industries the change often comes from the consumer, and its often met half-hearted and begrudgingly.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:the study seems defeatist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of these things are good, and on a personal level, important. That said, if you read the article (gasp!), lab animals are also getting fat, but their environments are well known and controlled in effectively the same way for many many decades. That is not a cultural thing. Diet is controlled, and we have the records, so for them it is either environmental (chemical, virii, bacteria), or due to the changes in laboratory feed stock.

    2. Re:the study seems defeatist by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      This holds true for most chefs, celebrity or not. Browned butter and whole cream are still entirely acceptable additions to most semi-casual and upscale dining experiences despite the well proven fact theyre killing us.

      While it's irrefutable that these are unhealthy I disagree that this can be considered a cause of the current problem. Up-scale restaurants generally have a tendency to cook the old school way, a beautiful meal often seasoned with it's own fat, and a wonderful array of tasty vegetables on the side. Yes butter and cream are killing us, but they were also killing my great grandma who's recipe book would drive a health advocate to sudden cardiac arrest. Even my still alive 97 year old grandma loves cooking roast and the day after they take the left over fat and shortening and spread it out on a sandwich for lunch.

      The recent alarming trend is a horrendous intake in sugar, not in fat. People have been consuming excessive portions of fat for 100s of years without an obesity epidemic. Sure it's not helping but I would point to things which have changed in the last 20 years such as a massive surge in the consumption of HFCS rather than age old delicious recipes consumed by our far thinner ancestry.

    3. Re:the study seems defeatist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the cases of laboratory controlled animals, im willing to venture a sedentary and stressful lifestyle has accumulated their girth.

      Yes, this can be traced back to when they used to have treadmills, and jungle gyms for them to play on in the 70s, but since budget cuts, have had to removed. Also the lab animal tax code has increased in great complexity since then, so it's no wonder they are stressed - they worry all year if the IRS will come and take them away, instead of playing and getting buff - like the good old laboratory animal experiment days.

    4. Re:the study seems defeatist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fatty milk products may be killing you, but I am surviving quite alright on them, you diet nazi!

    5. Re:the study seems defeatist by m00sh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Browned butter and whole cream are still entirely acceptable additions to most semi-casual and upscale dining experiences despite the well proven fact theyre killing us.

      They are not proven or if you think they are proven, the proof is under a lot of dispute. The major papers and studies that constitute "proof" have been found to have major statistical and analytical problems. One such problem was that all correlations to saturated fats to heart disease did not control for sugars and carbs. People who were eating high saturated fats were also eating higher sugars and carbs but it was not controlled because the researcher believed sugars/carbs to be harmless.

      Because of attitude like yours, butter and cream are replaced with canola/corn/soyabean oil because it is unsaturated fat/plant oil. These oils are industrial products going through high temperatures, chemicals and storage processes and even though they are unsaturated and "good", they are unstable and full of impurities.

      Many adults simply avoid healthy vegetables like onions, tomatoes or broccoli alltogether, picking from their meal and instead focusing on pasta or meat.

      And, you know why? Because, vegetables need fat to make them tasty and bring out their flavor. If you start throwing out the fat, vegetables start tasting like grass. If they are cooked properly with fat and seasonings, they are great. Even seafood like shrimps and crabs legs were once considered food that didn't taste good. Only by cooking them with butter, it has reached its status as it has now.

      So, stop believing saturated fats are bad for you. It's just a product of the 80s advertising campaign that hammered the point that fats are bad for you by showing saturated fats in semi-solid form in lower temperatures clogging drains and making the connection that your arteries are the drain and saturated fats clogs both.

    6. Re:the study seems defeatist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hardly irrefutable. Butter and cream are extremely healthy.

      The cholesterol/saturated fat hypothesis of heart disease has been debunked for decades.

    7. Re:the study seems defeatist by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Stop trying to create and then defend one thing.

      Fat intake has gone through the roof, as has sugar and salt. So we are eaitng more food, and that food has more sugar/fat/salt then before.

      "Up-scale restaurants generally have a tendency to cook the old school way,"
      name THAT logical fallacy, sheesh.

      "People have been consuming excessive portions of fat for 100s of years without an obesity epidemic"
      That's not true at all. for 100's of years most people dind't get enough to eat.You would have to be rich to eat excess fat 100 years ago. Hell, it would have been hard to do 50 years ago.

      " than age old delicious recipes consumed by our far thinner ancestry."
      Idiocy. Imagine eating that meal 6 times a day. That is the problem.

      And it's sugar. Bleached, unbleachs cane, beat, corn that's an issues. Their is no logical reason to bring up one type of sugar.
      In fac,t it derails the discussion. All sugars that aren't backs with the correct level of fiber are bad for you.

      I good podcast that I listen to discussed this recently.
      "Big Picture Science: Skeptic check Sweet Truth."
      http://radio.seti.org/

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:the study seems defeatist by nimbius · · Score: 1

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat#Association_with_diseases
      it doesnt really matter if i "believe" theyre bad for me. Scientific research seems to conclude saturated fats are linked to varying extents with both heart disease and cancer.
      'tastes like grass' is an incredibly subjective assertion. the conclusion that fat 'brings out their flavour' is also baseless considering fermentation and roasting are readily available alternatives which have been used for centuries. Beets, Carrots, Corn and cucumber all have a distinctive flavour despite the lack of fat.
      hydrogenated oils go through chemical processing in order to introduce hydrogen. as for cream, or butter, not a single drop reaches a supermarket before being pasteurized at 'temperatures'.

      i do agree, sugar and empty carbohydrates dominate the wasteland that is the modern convenience food cornucopia. corn syrup and glucose render us incapable of ever reaching the point of saity and refined starches send blood sugar racing in every direction. its a fools errand to discount the link between these two and preventable conditions such as heart disease and diabetes, however my point is simple: its bombastically ignorant to concede that 'everything makes everyone fat.' the best TFA hopes for is click fodder.

      --
      Good people go to bed earlier.
    9. Re:the study seems defeatist by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      more data should be required before we make such a broad spectrum 'everything is getting fat because of everything' claim, which is absolutely as absurd as it sounds. In the cases of laboratory controlled animals, im willing to venture a sedentary and stressful lifestyle has accumulated their girth. ...

      According to the article the rise in laboratory rodent weight is a steady trend stretching over 20 years. A laboratory mouse has 4 generations a year, so that spans 80 generations of mouse history, and is consistent with a trend that includes rural feral rodents.

      How is it that lab rats have been becoming steadily more sedentary and stressed in recent decades, in synchrony with rodents living in the wild? And all the other species listed? This is devotion to a received one-cause explanation in the face of contradicting evidence with a vengeance.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    10. Re:the study seems defeatist by RogueLeaderX · · Score: 1

      This must be modded up by others that didn't RTFA ...

      articles like this that just throw in the proverbial towel arent helping. We need competent nutritional education and responsible industry to start offering food that is both nutritious and healthy. Yet as with most industries the change often comes from the consumer, and its often met half-hearted and begrudgingly.

      The author would agree with you that we need competent nutritional education and the point is that rather than throw in the towel because it's a complicated issue we need to do something.

      He prescribes more research and updating public policy based on current research.

      Also: the consumer is only 1/2 the problem. Food companies spend millions advertising junk food, which increases consumer demand for said food, creating an artificial feedback loop. We could create a similar feedback loop for healthy (i.e. non-junk) food but doing so is costly. Not just in terms of advertising dollars.

      There's lost profits when selling healthy food at a lower margin than junk food.
      There's lost profits when people no longer need to purchase health care products/services due to weight related illness.
      There's lost tax money on junk food vs. healthy food (in some countries.)

      We've created an economic feedback loop that encourages unhealthy lifestyles - it pays better.

      Note: I do not think (nor have I seen evidence of) a conspiracy. I'm talking about economic forces that we can take control over if we wish. It will take many different groups working together to achieve this goal. Consumers, government, and industry need to work together and against the economic incentives.

    11. Re:the study seems defeatist by m00sh · · Score: 2

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat#Association_with_diseases [wikipedia.org] it doesnt really matter if i "believe" theyre bad for me. Scientific research seems to conclude saturated fats are linked to varying extents with both heart disease and cancer.

      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/saturated-fat-healthy/#axzz2cZ2Fmnln

      Scientific research does NOT seem to conclude saturated fats linked to heart disease. It is still being highly debated. Just one side of the argument got support from a senator decades ago and popular culture embraced it.

      Sure, there are papers that show correlations but as I said they are flawed. There are plenty of refutes and other papers that show saturated fats help in heart disease.

      'tastes like grass' is an incredibly subjective assertion. the conclusion that fat 'brings out their flavour' is also baseless considering fermentation and roasting are readily available alternatives which have been used for centuries. Beets, Carrots, Corn and cucumber all have a distinctive flavour despite the lack of fat.

      Fermentation and roasting rely on the starches and glucides. Vegetables high in starches and sugar tastes good raw. But, of course, in the modern food world with sugar, they can't compete on sugar. Vegetables that are low in both starches/sugar and fat can be eaten but cooked right with fat, they bring out the flavors of the vegetables. Yes, it's a highly subjective opinion but as someone who has cooked heaps of vegetables like broccoli and spinach that even kids have loved to eat, I stand by it.

      hydrogenated oils go through chemical processing in order to introduce hydrogen. as for cream, or butter, not a single drop reaches a supermarket before being pasteurized at 'temperatures'.

      I could make butter at home but I can't make corn/soyabean/canola oil at home. So, they are still industrial foods in my book.

    12. Re:the study seems defeatist by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying that HFCS is in place of sugar. I'm saying things have been artificially sweetened which weren't previously. We are consuming more sugar while at the same time consuming less raw sugar. I can't get breakfast cereal now that isn't sweetened by something.

      As for the rest of what I said I don't think you understood. My argument was not that our fat intake isn't too high (it is), or that our total sugar intake isn't too high (it is) or even that we aren't simply overeating (we are). My argument was that blaming upper class restaurants and excellent recipes which cook with butter and cream is simply absurd. Despite the fat content they are amongst the most balanced and most nutritional meals that anyone in the current western world is likely to consume.

      The problem is the rising levels of fat and processed foods in everything. Yes my grandma cooks the most fantastic and fatty lunches, but dinner is usually a simple sandwich, whereas the american way has dinner being a round of deep fried carbs. No logical fallacy required.

      I mean people can't even eat a salad these days without drenching it in so much dressing that they basically end up eating leaves out of soup by the end of it which isn't the way I've ever seen it served in a nice restaurant.

    13. Re:the study seems defeatist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, you know why? Because, vegetables need fat to make them tasty and bring out their flavor. If you start throwing out the fat, vegetables start tasting like grass. If they are cooked properly with fat and seasonings, they are great.

      Have you ever even eaten a tomato? It's not all bleached broccoli and brussels sprouts, you know. Here, let me show you magic:
      1 medium red tomato, diced
      10-12 cherry tomatoes, halved
      1 orange or yellow bell pepper, sliced
      1 medium cucumber, diced
      2 oz spinach leaves, chopped
      1 oz banana pepper rings
      tablespoon of vinegar, dash of salt, fresh ground pepper to taste

      Holy flavor, Batman.

  14. The problem isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The problem isn't that obesity runs in the family; it's rather nobody runs in the family!

    1. Re:The problem isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and that's clearly why wild animals are also gaining weight. Because they also never run.

  15. Want an off-the-wall explanation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The earth is moving toward enlightenment, to a new era, to a higher vibrational state. And so we need less food, but it's never been as cheap and abundant as it is now. No wonder it's hard not to put on weight. This is the age of aquarius and all, doncha know.

  16. High Rise by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

    When I was in a student exchange program in the U.S. (St. Louis, Missouri) we stopped at a diner for breakfast on the way to some friends and I ordered waffles, expecting to get something like this. What I got instead was three 30cm diameter waffles stacked on top of each other with sweet cream in between and marmalade and powdered sugar on top. I didn't even manage to eat a quarter of that and felt really bad to my hosts for wasting so much food.

    1. Re:High Rise by codeButcher · · Score: 0

      ... felt really bad to my hosts for wasting so much food.

      That ain't no food.

      --
      Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
    2. Re:High Rise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are plenty places in the world where you don't get oversized portions like that, yet they too have an obesity problem.

      It's not that you're wrong to mention this, just that it cannot possibly be the complete explanation. So this is mostly a good illustration of how the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

    3. Re:High Rise by xaxa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was about 13 when I visited a Texan diner, on the first day of a holiday. My mum ordered a salad. "What dressing do you want?" There's a choice?! She asked for the normal one.

      A large bowl of salad was provided, and a bowl of pink goop -- probably 75cl or so. My mum asked what the goop was. The waitress said, "that's your thousand island dressing, here, I'll show you" and tipped the whole lot over the salad.

      At a fast food place in Texas the five of us chose what we wanted. My mum ordered it "one large hotdogs, one large cheeseburger... oh, is that the large hotdog? Wow, ok, nothing else". The two items fed my parents and three children.

    4. Re:High Rise by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Oddly at a local Mexican place (actual food for the over the border folks with the menu in Spanish and poor English in parens), I ordered a taco plate which was only a few bucks. I figured it'd be regular Taco Bell sized tacos and ordered a burrito as well as a filler. The tacos were huge with lots of meat and beans weirdly enough and the burrito was pretty large. I didn't touch the burrito, leaving it for later consumption. But the entire thing was around $5.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    5. Re:High Rise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      careful, the only "mum" in tx is a plant

    6. Re:High Rise by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Some Mexican-ish places have recently opened (and become a bit trendy) in London. I bought some kind of wrap thing for about £6 (only a little more than what a McDonald's meal costs, I think), and it was like trying to eat a whole newborn baby.

      Mexico is even more overweight than the US though, so it's not that surprising. They do seem to have more fresh fruit and vegetables in Mexican meals, so that could be a plus...

      http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/news/america-fattest-obese-un-144341236.html

      I met a group of Americans from NYC at lunchtime at a conference in London. It was a nice meal -- probably would cost £15-20 from a restaurant, except there were only two choices (meat / vegan). All the Americans in the group agreed that although the portion was smaller than they were used to, the quantity of food was adequate. Several of them also said they felt overweight in London, but didn't at home as they were "average". (London is significantly below average for obesity in the UK.)

      There's probably research on why, but in the UK being given far too much food in a restaurant isn't really seen as a good thing; it's wasteful. It may go back to memories of rationing from WWII being in the culture.

  17. Watch it from start to finish by AbRASiON · · Score: 4, Informative
    1. Re:Watch it from start to finish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Going sugar-free worked for me, the pounds just fell away.

      The big problem is trying to find anything in the supermarkets that doesn't contain sugar or other such chemical fillers. Just about everything except fresh organic produce contains added sugar, so unless you're a strict vegan, it cannot be avoided in your diet.

      The processed food industry is 100% to blame for this problem. Add to the sugar the many industrial chemicals in our environment that are changing gut flora populations for the worse and the result is this epidemic.

      The short version of TFA is "It's caused by capitalism" and that it is essentially correct, because capitalism makes the processed food industry aim for profit instead of for health. It's nothing to do with politics, just the profit motive working against us.

    2. Re:Watch it from start to finish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But what would happen to all those poor GMO corn farmers if we didn't eat so much corn starch?
      The parent post is probably one of the best posts on this thread.

  18. Everything makes you fatter - just try a little .. by burni2 · · Score: 1

    .. less of everything.

  19. Blaming electricity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As I sit here at 6:00 AM, half an hour before sunrise, eating breakfast? Perhaps daylight savings time is a stupid idea.

  20. People who can't stop by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The author obviously has his pet topic, which is that it's not anyone's fault that anyone is fat. Sorry, but I've lived around too many fat people. They eat. They eat a lot. Honestly the author goes on far too long about "it's not their fault" and doesn't spend too much time discussing "why".

    I can buy that there's something in food these days that may cause people to become heavier than they otherwise would become. But I don't buy the fact that this mystery chemical has made a nation of blobs. It may be a contributory factor, but it's not why obesity happens.

    Frankly, I think that companies like McDonald's have successfully hacked the human brain and created foods that people just can't say no to. It's not all of us, I get nauseous eating McD's more than once a week (the smell outside the restaurant is enough to drive me away) but there are plenty of us who are wholly unable to resist. And by "unable to resist" I mean exactly that - your conscious mind might know it's bad, but you just can't help yourself because the food is so delicious. That this "flavor" is a bunch of old, tired cows mixed with industrial chemicals is beside the point. You've been hacked - you could say no, but you really don't want to. The idea of living without McD's for the rest of your life is repellent, a life hardly worth living at all.

    I live overseas, and I've seen this myself with the locals and foreigners alike. The locals freaking love McD's and KFC. There's nothing like it in their cuisine and some of them (not all) just can't stop going there. Especially kids. Then, there are foreigners who upon discovering the local (awesome) food spit it out and won't eat anything but Western food. Seriously, I've known people who have lived locally for years and who every day eat nothing but Subway, Starbucks, McD's, KFC, Papa John's, Pizza Hut, etc. If I suggest we go and get a bowl of noodles or other local stuff and I receive a wide-eyed, "You eat that shite, mate? It's garbage!"

    Look no further than the closest thing he makes to a hypothesis: "being poor is stressful, and stress makes you eat, and the cheapest food available is the stuff with a lot of âempty caloriesâ(TM), therefore poorer people are fatter than the better-off." Stop right there at the "stress makes you eat" part. WTF man? No it doesn't. Maybe it does FOR YOU, perhaps FOR SOME, but it's hardly universal.

    Conclusion: the guy wanted to write 4,700 words to get his name in print and support his pre-existing political views, not because he had something insightful to say.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:People who can't stop by N1AK · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Stop right there at the "stress makes you eat" part. WTF man? No it doesn't. Maybe it does FOR YOU, perhaps FOR SOME, but it's hardly universal.

      Not my favourite part of his article but you're splitting hairs if you only accept statements that are universal. Your own post says "The locals freaking love McDs" WTF man? but by your own criteria-> No they don't. Maybe it does for that ONE, perhaps for SOME.. can you see how that kind of nitpicking doesn't add anything as it's obviously not meant literally.

      There is a well researched correlation between stress, over-eating and unhealthy-eating.

      You're right that personal responsibility and control are important and some people tend to ignore these, however it is also true that factors outside individual control (brain hacking as you call it for example) play a massive part and masses of people ignore those. A common opinion of fat people is that they're fat because they're lazy, weak etc with no recognition that yes they played a part but so did food manufacturers, governments etc and we should be dealing with both.

    2. Re:People who can't stop by dadelbunts · · Score: 2

      The cheapest food available is actually going to the store and cooking your own food. Most people are too lazy to do this, or to exercise, so we get articles like this telling them its not their fault. I have seen someone say their doctor was fat shaming them, because whenever they went he told them to lose weight as it was affecting their health. This is the society we live in now.

    3. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cheapest food available is actually going to the store and cooking your own food.

      Not always. Time is money.

    4. Re:People who can't stop by Thanshin · · Score: 1

      Frankly, I think that companies like McDonald's have successfully hacked the human brain and created foods that people just can't say no to.

      I don't think there's anything a human being can't say no to except air (and that only because the body turns the brain off to restart breathing).

      People have died in hunger strikes. I don't think putting a McMenu in front of them would work.

    5. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they didn't successfully hack any brain. What they did, was make it fun for children to eat there. Made them associate fun with their food.
      They can sell any kind of food the want now, they could even sell health food if they wanted to, people would still buy. Because they don't really eat diet or fat food, they eat McDonalds food.

    6. Re:People who can't stop by evilviper · · Score: 2

      Frankly, I think that companies like McDonald's have successfully hacked the human brain and created foods that people just can't say no to. It's not all of us, I get nauseous eating McD's more than once a week (the smell outside the restaurant is enough to drive me away) but there are plenty of us who are wholly unable to resist

      This makes NO SENSE. Most people don't eat out more than once a week, yet they're overweight. Some people don't EVER eat at McDonalds or similar fast-food places, and yet they're fat, too.

      Your anecdote, that you know some fat people with no self control, does NOT apply to EVERY OVERWEIGHT PERSON OUT THERE. Your dislike of McDonald biases you to be only too happy to blame them for every ill in the universe, but that's not supported by ANY evidence.

      Conclusion: the guy wanted to write 4,700 words to get his name in print and support his pre-existing political views, not because he had something insightful to say.

      His observation that laboratory animals are even getting fatter is pretty hard to discount, and really indicates a bigger problem. Nothing you've said can POSSIBLY account for this data. So it's YOU who has nothing insightful to say.

      Is it genetic modifications to foods? Herbicides or Pesticides used on crops? HFCS? Calorie-free sweeteners? Or something else?

      My money is on BPA and other phthalates. They are recognized by the body as estrogen, and have been "shown to affect the developmental and reproductive systems." Estrogen has effects on the body like weight-gain (retaining more calories as fat), and fatigue.

      Phthalates are everywhere, from plastic baby bottles to canned food. It's only in the past generation that we've been exposed to them at astronomical levels, which coincides nicely with the epidemic of weight gain. A few more years of research, and we might find we've all been poisoned, and have to deal with these side-effects of cheap plastic food/drink containers for the rest of our lives.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    7. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The cheapest food available is actually going to the store and cooking your own food.

      I can get a crappy cheese burger for a buck. Oh sorry I didn't realize you meant the cheapest healthy food available. Do carry on with your imaginary argument, though.

    8. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The cheapest food available is actually going to the store and cooking your own food
      Said the person who doesn't shop for themselves. It's cheaper than restaurants, but beating Taco Bell on a $/calorie is very hard. Especially if you try to eat healthy. A McDouble is $1. Strawberries are currently $2.50/lbs.

    9. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My weight gain has been to due to several factors:

      1) Metabolic change
      2) Exercise habits
      3) Sleep habits

      I've gone from 66kg to 81kg (that's a 33lb gain) in the past 5 years. Why?
      1) I turned 30 (yes its actually true, metabolism changes)
      2) I stopped exercising nearly as much (much more impact than #1)
      3) I sleep a lot less = less time to metabolize foods, more opportunity to eat.

      And this trend is for many many people the same. We're getting older. We're sleeping less. We're moving less. These megatrends result in weight gain.

    10. Re:People who can't stop by golrien · · Score: 2

      The author obviously has his pet topic, which is that it's not anyone's fault that anyone is fat. Sorry, but I've lived around too many fat people. They eat. They eat a lot. Honestly the author goes on far too long about "it's not their fault" and doesn't spend too much time discussing "why".

      I didn't get that from the article at all. The word "fault" doesn't turn up once. Nobody is trying to pretend that you can eat lots of food and lose weight. Pretty much the entire article is about factors other than overeating that can contribute to being overweight, so I don't see how you can think that the author doesn't spend enough time discussing "why" in there.

    11. Re:People who can't stop by c · · Score: 1

      Stop right there at the "stress makes you eat" part. WTF man? No it doesn't.

      I don't buy "stress makes you eat", but I'd be comfortable in saying that stress would contribute a lot to someone to not caring too much about what they eat, how much they eat, how healthy it is, or what it's doing to their body.

      People under stress frequently take the path of least resistance, and if that means the cheapest, fastest, most convenient food and stretchy pants, then so be it.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    12. Re:People who can't stop by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Failure to control a variable: false assumption that lab animal food hasn't changed. Oops!

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    13. Re:People who can't stop by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 2

      Strawberries are sweet and generally used in desserts. They're treats.

      Try pricing out stuff like beans, kale, cabbage, spinach etc. instead. Inexpensive and very filling.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    14. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Laziness has nothing to do with it; in the past, women stayed home and cooked. Now they're out in the workplace, and men haven't moved into the kitchens in their stead. Cooking varied, pleasing meals is a skill; it takes time to learn, and time to do. Without someone dedicated to the task at home, it's understandable that busy couples and families would turn to outsourcing the job.

    15. Re:People who can't stop by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Failure to control a variable: false assumption that lab animal food hasn't changed. Oops!

      Of course SOMETHING about it has changed, hence the effect. But it's reasonable to assume that researchers haven't switched from pellets to hamburgers, and are delivering the same number of calories as they always have.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    16. Re:People who can't stop by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      Especially if you try to eat healthy. A McDouble is $1. Strawberries are currently $2.50/lbs.

      Sure, but only one of them is food. PERIOD. FULL STOP. The other is poison.

      It's also not hard to beat Taco Bell or McDonald's on a $/calorie basis. You don't actually know how to eat is the problem. You (and most people) have literally no freaking clue what should be in a meal. Who the hell eats a pound of strawberries in a sitting?

      Even where I live (on a tiny island where ALL food is imported), a cooked meal costs me less than $2 (a McDouble, also imported, is $2.50).

    17. Re:People who can't stop by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      but it's not why obesity happens

      True. 500 pounds doesn't appear out of thin air. That's just simple laws of nature. You can't blame some mystery cause when you are eating three pies and a bag of chips every day.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    18. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good god I am sick of this "is seen as estrogen" shit. Nothing more than lazy fucking superstition. Write back to me when your breasts start developing.

      - Velex

    19. Re:People who can't stop by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I'd be willing to bet that I could make a meal using beans, spinach, etc that would be much more filling that a McDonald's burger, be much more healthy, and would be close to the same price per serving.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    20. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try pricing a big bag of rice or pasta, a big block of cheese, and a bag of dried beans.

    21. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think there's anything a human being can't say no to

      Have you never known an addict? You can define human will in a way that gels with your statement, but it will be a very, very tortured definition indeed.

    22. Re:People who can't stop by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1

      But what about fat people who exercise and don't eat fast food. There's plenty of them.

    23. Re:People who can't stop by m00sh · · Score: 1

      McDonald's have successfully hacked the human brain and created foods that people just can't say no to.

      The problem with these kinds of argument is "what is the hack?" What is the magic "Turkish Delight" that we simply can't say no to. People simply believe that there is something like this but don't know what it is or don't care to find out but still hold onto the belief that there is this magic hack.

      Why don't people get their local fast food recipe and cook them at home and get the same brain hack itch satisfied? Do you see anyone making McDonald hamburger clones to home?

      Because there is no hack, no magic ingredient. It's just advertising, convenience, habits and low price. There is no magic in the food. If there is magic ingredient, it is ingredients that we are too afraid to cook at home because they are "bad" for you. Maybe we are afraid to cook ground beef in oil or put cheese/mayo in our food and that is magic ingredient. But, certainly no, magic chemical.

    24. Re:People who can't stop by m00sh · · Score: 1

      I can get a crappy cheese burger for a buck. Oh sorry I didn't realize you meant the cheapest healthy food available. Do carry on with your imaginary argument, though.

      Ground beef is $1.99/lb here. A dozen eggs is 99c and onions are 3lbs for $1. Mix them together and you have meat for more than 4 quarter-pounders or maybe 8-12 dollar burgers. Buns are $1 for eight and cheese slices are $2 for a dozen. So, you can make cheeseburgers cheaper than for a dollar.

    25. Re:People who can't stop by socrplayr813 · · Score: 1

      Try pricing out stuff like beans, kale, cabbage, spinach etc. instead. Inexpensive and very filling.

      Maybe your area has better prices, but where I live (a typical low income US town), that's not the case. My girlfriend and I switched to a vegetable, fruit, and meat diet a year or two back. Our food bill went up a good 20%. On top of that, because it's a somewhat rural area and the population is generally low income, the variety of fresh food available is pathetic. It can get very boring eating spinach and cabbage all the time. Even with our garden, we don't get the quality and variety of food that we should, and we try pretty hard to make it work. The general population isn't going to put in that kind of effort, especially with the added cost here.

      The people I deal with on a regular basis eat processed grains and processed meat. A 'meal' for one person can cost pennies. I'd be very surprised if you could match that calorie/$ value anywhere. You certainly can't here.

      --
      The confidence of ignorance will always overcome the indecision of knowledge.
    26. Re:People who can't stop by astro · · Score: 1

      "you're splitting hairs if you only accept statements that are universal." -- THIS.

      It's certainly not universal, but for many it is true. I am a far-too-skinny (unhealthily so) person engaged to a person who is quite overweight. Her weight doesn't bother me a bit, nor mine her, but we both have serious difficulties with our own body image. Thing is - we both have what might be called eating disorders - both related to stress or anxiety. If I feel anxiety, I simply CAN'T eat. Not hungry, can't finish even small meals. If she feels anxiety, she is absolutely compelled to eat constantly. We know this is not healthy, and are trying to find ways to healthily reduce our anxiety, such that both of us might eat "normally" (which is another total variant from individual to individual).

    27. Re:People who can't stop by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, I see kale costing about as much per weight, and far more per calorie, than cheap nasty ground beef at the places I shop. Fortunately, I've got enough money in my food budget to include fresh fruits and veg --- but, if I were squeezed for cash and had a hungry family to feed, the beef would seem far more economical than the kale. Which just goes to show how fucked up our megacorporate food system is, since beef takes a heckuva lot more resources to produce (and should be way more expensive) than basic veggies. But, we've subsidized the heck out of cheap, nasty ground beef production, and made fresh veggies a budget-busting luxury out of reach of many working-class families.

    28. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      companies like McDonald's have successfully hacked the human brain.

      Yep, we call it McDonald's Crack(tm). I can't stand eating there more than once a month because it's so freakin' "delicious".

    29. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it makes you nauseous, and the smell drives you away, then why the fuck do you eat there? No it's not impossible to resist. I haven't eaten at McDonald's in over a decade. It's easy - just don't go there. Fuck.

    30. Re:People who can't stop by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I think the point is, if stress makes you eat, then that's the problem you need to fix. Either don't get stressed, or don't eat when you're stressed, but until you fix that problem, organic food isn't going to make a difference.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    31. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they can take a long time to prep/process/cook.

      I get out of work at 5, pick up my kids at daycare at 5:30, and get home by 6. Kids need to be in bed at 7- 7:30. I can spend an hour washing lettuce, soaking beans, chopping kale, etc,.... or I can stop off for McDonalds on the way home.

      People choose the easier option. Perhaps there are alternatives (put the dry beans to soak before leaving in the morning? Cook on the weekends, and just re-heat during the week?), but they require thought and effort to put into place. Perhaps there's a market for simple solutions in that area. Instead of 'buy a package of hamburger helper (loaded with chemicals and sugar)', it could have directions for preparing it from 'scratch'. Or even recipes that have the time-strapped parent in mind. (And I specifically do not mean the current wave of 'meals in 30 minutes or less' cookbooks that have crazy things that require weird ingredients.)

    32. Re:People who can't stop by danlip · · Score: 1

      If you are trying to fill your belly with nutritious food while reducing calories, the fact that kale costs more per calorie is not a negative factor. That's only a problem if you are trying to maximize your calories.

    33. Re:People who can't stop by jd.schmidt · · Score: 1

      Here is what I think is going on. Food and exercise do matter, but because of secondary effects, not primary thermodynamics.

      It is way too obvious it isn't as simple as eating less, the amount of extra food you need to consume or not consume each day is FAR too small. It is basically one mouthful of food, or less maybe? If it was that simple, you could lose insane amounts of weight by not eating for a day or too.

      However your hormones and body systems control your appetite and how the energy is stored, used and consumed. What I believe is exercise and nutrition have more to do with keeping your body systems in balance as opposed to a simple calorie count. Say for example your body needs so much of each vitamin, you have to keep processing food until the amount needed has been reached, at the point you can safely poop away the rest. I know that is oversimplified but I believe, admittedly without a through scientific study, that is closer to what is going on.

      That is why chemicals, which mess with your body chemistry, can cause dramatic weight gain or loss. But of intentionally messing with your body chemistry is dangerous.

      Personal experience, when I had a Japanese girl friend who cooked for me, I lost a lot of weight. But I was eating very different kinds of things, I didn't even have to think about controlling my appetite, it just happened.

    34. Re:People who can't stop by geekoid · · Score: 1

      IT's not that simple.
      Really, it isn't.
      The brain, study it. A slight change in chemicals, and I mean SLIGHT change and people will be compelled to do something.
      Read upon the latest brain science.

      ON top of that, comaniues are packing fat, sugar and salts into more things and to a higher percentage.
      This can also cause people to be compelled to eat more.
      There is a reason large food companies top executives and board of directors are physiologist, neurologists, and market geniuses.
      Also, wall street. When Campbell reduces salt in one tine line of soups, wall street didn't like it.

      If they were looking long term, they would privatly ask the government for regulaiton, and then hide behind that so wall street doesn't freak when the lower salt fat a sugar in products.

      This is why we need regulation and education.
      Bloomberg had the right idea. Set a max size on soda. You can have more, jut not in one big cup; becasue the big cup will entice more, and refills.

      We should end what I, as a teen, thought was the greatest change in the world: free refills.

      And stress, and depression, cause that VAST MAJORITY of people to eat. It's a cheap dopamine hit.

      The sad thing is you live overseas and can't understand culture, volume, and that the food their isn't necessarily thee same as in the US, even under the same brand
      But yeah, it taste good. fat and sugar and salt often do.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    35. Re:People who can't stop by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Assuming you love her, her weight it should bother you, it's unhealthy and when she gets older it will impact her in a lot of ways. Heart, joints, energy.

      "which is another total variant from individual to individual"
      not as much as pop culture has lead you to believe.

      Anxiety and stress are different. Just so you know.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    36. Re:People who can't stop by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Nope. hasn't been in a long time.
      I can get a burrito for 49 cents. I can fill up, meaning eat too much, for 3 dollars.

      The article isn't saying it isn't their fault.

      Neurologically it may not be, but that's' not the written topic. (In this cas eit would be their fault for not trying to find a way to change the chemicals in their brain)

      " I have seen someone say their doctor was fat shaming them, because whenever they went he told them to lose weight as it was affecting their health."
      The Doctor was fat shaming him, as he SHOULD.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    37. Re:People who can't stop by geekoid · · Score: 1

      " PERIOD. FULL STOP"
      You're a twit and you aren't haling the conversation.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    38. Re:People who can't stop by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "Most people don't eat out more than once a week,
      HAHAHAHAHahaha.

      4-5 times a week. is the average.

      "McDonalds isn't magic. It's cheap, fast calories with too much fat and salt."
      Eating certain foods cause fat. Over eating them causes too much fat REGARDLESS of where the fat/salt/sugar came from.

      "Is it genetic modifications to foods? Herbicides or Pesticides used on crops? HFCS? Calorie-free sweeteners? Or something else?
      no.
      It's too much fat/salt/sugar/ Specifically sugars delivered without the right ratio of fiber. Fiber helps regulate the bodies processing of sugar.

      "My money is on BPA and other phthalates.
      you would be wrong. You can not retain more fat then the calories you intake. and the only way to get more weight is with water from salt intake; which won't be more then a few pounds.
      So even if BPA turned 100% of the calories not immediately used to fat, if you are eating the healthy amount, you can become obese.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    39. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear that saw very often. That cooking your own food (usually from scratch) is cheapest. Shall we dissect it?

      Cost of a shit frozen meal: $1. Cost to microwave it for 3 minutes: 1 cent. Calories provided: Up to 1500 a day, if you're careful. Just enough to keep you from starving, LOL.

      So, for the benefit of all those that are broke, how do we eat for $3.03 per day with your plan? So we have some basis to work on: Tomatoes work out to about 50 cents at my grocery store. A bunch of carrots is $2. Corn is presently 57 cents an ear. The deli will sell you 10 slices of meat for $5. Chicken/pork is about $3 a pound, and beef is about $5 a pound. Bread is $1 per loaf and contains approximately 30 slices. Eggs are $3 a dozen. Potatoes are $4 for 10 lbs. Rice is about $10 for 20 lbs.

      I'm willing to stretch whatever it is we're making to a week so you have the best opportunity possible to show me how to save money. Provide an adequate caloric intake. That gives you $21.21 to budget with! Do not forget the stove/oven costs 80 cents an hour to run, and the microwave 15 cents an hour. Water is, give or take, free.

      Hey, I'll admit homecooked food is way tastier, and if a modicum of attention is paid, healthier. But cheaper--I'm not buying that.

    40. Re:People who can't stop by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Too bad, fr the vast majority of people it does. That is something that has been shown over and over.
      It's an easy dopamine hit.
      Couple of notes:
      It's not the only reason
      Anxiety and stress are different.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    41. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The author obviously has his pet topic, which is that it's not anyone's fault that anyone is fat. Sorry, but I've lived around too many fat people. They eat. They eat a lot. Honestly the author goes on far too long about "it's not their fault" and doesn't spend too much time discussing "why".

      I can buy that there's something in food these days that may cause people to become heavier than they otherwise would become. But I don't buy the fact that this mystery chemical has made a nation of blobs. It may be a contributory factor, but it's not why obesity happens.

      Frankly, I think that companies like McDonald's have successfully hacked the human brain and created foods that people just can't say no to. It's not all of us, I get nauseous eating McD's more than once a week (the smell outside the restaurant is enough to drive me away) but there are plenty of us who are wholly unable to resist. And by "unable to resist" I mean exactly that - your conscious mind might know it's bad, but you just can't help yourself because the food is so delicious. That this "flavor" is a bunch of old, tired cows mixed with industrial chemicals is beside the point. You've been hacked - you could say no, but you really don't want to. The idea of living without McD's for the rest of your life is repellent, a life hardly worth living at all.

      I live overseas, and I've seen this myself with the locals and foreigners alike. The locals freaking love McD's and KFC. There's nothing like it in their cuisine and some of them (not all) just can't stop going there. Especially kids. Then, there are foreigners who upon discovering the local (awesome) food spit it out and won't eat anything but Western food. Seriously, I've known people who have lived locally for years and who every day eat nothing but Subway, Starbucks, McD's, KFC, Papa John's, Pizza Hut, etc. If I suggest we go and get a bowl of noodles or other local stuff and I receive a wide-eyed, "You eat that shite, mate? It's garbage!"

      Look no further than the closest thing he makes to a hypothesis: "being poor is stressful, and stress makes you eat, and the cheapest food available is the stuff with a lot of âempty caloriesâ(TM), therefore poorer people are fatter than the better-off." Stop right there at the "stress makes you eat" part. WTF man? No it doesn't. Maybe it does FOR YOU, perhaps FOR SOME, but it's hardly universal.

      Conclusion: the guy wanted to write 4,700 words to get his name in print and support his pre-existing political views, not because he had something insightful to say.

      The author obviously has his pet topic, which is that it's not anyone's fault that anyone is fat. Sorry, but I've lived around too many fat people. They eat. They eat a lot. Honestly the author goes on far too long about "it's not their fault" and doesn't spend too much time discussing "why".

      I can buy that there's something in food these days that may cause people to become heavier than they otherwise would become. But I don't buy the fact that this mystery chemical has made a nation of blobs. It may be a contributory factor, but it's not why obesity happens.

      Frankly, I think that companies like McDonald's have successfully hacked the human brain and created foods that people just can't say no to. It's not all of us, I get nauseous eating McD's more than once a week (the smell outside the restaurant is enough to drive me away) but there are plenty of us who are wholly unable to resist. And by "unable to resist" I mean exactly that - your conscious mind might know it's bad, but you just can't help yourself because the food is so delicious. That this "flavor" is a bunch of old, tired cows mixed with industrial chemicals is beside the point. You've been hacked - you could say no, but you really don't want to. The idea of living without McD's for the rest of your life is repellent, a life hardly worth living at all.

      I live overseas, and I've seen t

    42. Re:People who can't stop by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      It's a problem if you're not wealthy and trying to feed a family on this country's relatively low working-class wages. You might be awash in money, but a whole lot of people in this country are not --- try living on minimum wage and/or food stamps, and it will be more obvious why so many low income people are fat. It's extremely difficult to afford a good diet --- that will keep you feeling full and energetic without piling on the pounds of useless lard --- for a sadly large portion of the US population.

    43. Re:People who can't stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, but only one of them is food. PERIOD. FULL STOP. The other is poison.

      Yeah, I agree. Most strawberries taste like shit. You have smother them with sugar to make them edible.

    44. Re:People who can't stop by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Eating certain foods cause fat.

      Absolutely not. Eating ANY foods cause fat. There is NO food out there which you can eat to excess and not get fat. Too many calories cause fat, and ALL food has calories.

      You can not retain more fat then the calories you intake

      No, but appetite stimulants can drive you to eat more calories than you otherwise would. And your body turning more calories into fat WILL cause you to get less energy out of the same amount of food, and that hunger will cause you to eat more, unless you're carefully measuring out exact amounts of food and drinks at every meal.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    45. Re:People who can't stop by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Good god I am sick of this "is seen as estrogen" shit. Nothing more than lazy fucking superstition

      Here's proof (that you are an idiot):
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A#Health_effects

      Take a good look at all the "superstitious" scientific papers being cited. Attempts were even made to develop BPA as a synthetic estrogen, it just wasn't as effective as existing drugs (estradiol).

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    46. Re:People who can't stop by N1AK · · Score: 1

      Actually that's not the only thing that could be done. If you were from an average family 100 years ago (let alone 10,000 years ago) then you didn't have food around to waste comfort eating and the food you did have wouldn't be high in fats and sugars that provide short term contentedness to most people.

      If the average can of coke had 10% less sugar (or HFCS) in it then someone who drinks an average of one can a day would consume 1.2kg less sugar a year and 50,000 less calories. The health benefit of that change are pretty huge in terms of health risks, tooth decay and weight control. Turning calories into fat can't be calculated precisely but cutting 50,000 calories is likely to lead to around 6kg of weight loss in a year.

      What's worth considering is that food in the west has gotten progressively sweeter over time. When companies release sweets in other countries they often have to tone down the sugar content because it's too sweet for un-accustomed taste. We could drop sugar content gradually by 10% across our diet and never even notice it happened. The thing is companies won't do it on their own.

    47. Re:People who can't stop by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Beef takes more resources to produce than produce, but vegetables are more difficult to transport than ground beef, and they keep for a dramatically shorter period. Some parts of the country are completely unsuitable for production of some of the crops which we expect to see year-round in our supermarkets, so the real cost of putting certain vegetables on the shelf can be much higher than you might imagine. This is what the farm-to-table types are always on about; eliminating the transportation energy costs permits you to eat a higher quality of food without spending more money. It does require you to eat seasonally in most of the world, which is in turn a fun opportunity instead of a hardship if you have a few skills which used to be more or less universal and which will always serve you in hard times.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    48. Re:People who can't stop by CODiNE · · Score: 1

      I had a buddy who was fairly overweight, I'd say 5'10" and at least 250lbs.

      After a while I noticed something. Whenever he went out with a group to a restaurant he always ordered last. He also always ordered the same amount of food as everyone else. If you ordered a light snack, so would he... same with fast food places he'd get about the same number of tacos or similar meal size as you.

      I used to wonder why he was fat.

      Well one day another friend of mine went to a burger place with him, they had lunch and said goodbye, okay going back to work see ya.

      So he's sitting in his car messing with his phone when he sees the overweight guy go back in, order 2 more burgers and eat them by himself.

      I used to wonder why he was fat.

      --
      Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    49. Re:People who can't stop by femtobyte · · Score: 1

      Indeed, but I happen to live in frickin' California, where they grow all this stuff, and the low-grade 80/20 ground beef at $2.69/lb is still cheaper than most of the fruit/veggies on the store shelf (grown in California and right across the border in Mexico). So the "parts of the country unsuitable for producing produce" argument doesn't apply where I am. Yes, I can eat locally and seasonally and healthily here, but only because I make nearly double minimum wage (plus healthcare benefits) and have only one mouth to feed --- for a lot of people, even right here in the middle of fruit-land, that's not so easy an option.

    50. Re:People who can't stop by entmike · · Score: 1

      Except none of the factors you mention have anything to do with childhood obesity.

      So while these factors fit your case, we need to remember the scope of the problem. Not refuting anything you've added, just keeping perspective.

    51. Re:People who can't stop by bitingduck · · Score: 1

      Who the hell eats a pound of strawberries in a sitting?

      Me.

      I probably eat 2-3 lbs of strawberries a week on average. It's one of the nice side effects of living in California-- I eat a ton of fruit year round, some of it even from my yard.

    52. Re:People who can't stop by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I knew for sure he was blathering when I came to this line:

      "The problem with diets that are heavy in meat, fat or sugar... "

      Er.... everything you eat is protein (meat), fat, or sugar (carbs are just complex sugars). So according to him, there's no such thing as good food, it's ALL at fault.

      Well, I suppose that's literally true, if you eat too much of it.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    53. Re:People who can't stop by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Bedtime at 7, are you some kind of nazi?

      Seriously though, I see your point, time is not an unlimited resource. You could cook batches during weekends or whenever you have time, portion them out and freeze them individually. Soups, stews and the like keep really well in the freezer and can be reheated in the microwave in minutes. Bonus points for stews in that they can be cooked on cheap chewy meat. It needs to cook for a couple of hours, but you don't even have to watch over it, just check every 30 minutes or so that it's still cooking. We ate a lot of soups and stews while I was growing up. A hearty stew with a little fresh parsley on top and a piece of bread on the side is a solid meal to grow on.

      After moving out and having to cook for myself, I started using the recipes on http://thestonesoup.com/ more and more. They're simple, most of them only require 5 ingredients and they generally don't take very long to cook. Most of the ingredients are easy to find or easily substituted, too. I bought the original "5 ingredients, 10 minutes" cookbook from there, and I've gotten a lot of use out of it.

      Everyone deserves at least one honest meal a day.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    54. Re:People who can't stop by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      Try pricing out stuff like beans, kale, cabbage, spinach etc. instead.

      What the fuck are those things? They sound like the stuff that food eats.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    55. Re:People who can't stop by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Ooh, so edgy.

      Try stepping outside sometime.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  21. Read the article. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    A rise in eating too fucking much. There isn't anything mysterious about this

    Ignoring your link to the advert! You should read the article. The article is questioning the "rise" in obesity (in America is 1 in 3) in seeming contradiction of Bloomberg’s thermodynamics.

    Your advert might make the point "You're fat because you are stupid" in what you may think is clever because its offensive (gives you a feeling of superiority), but it excuses the underlying factors. That is not to say you should eat sensibly and exercise and underlying factors should be used as an excuse for being fat.

  22. Nope. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Gut Bacteria. You will notice that it occurs in Locations and then it happens by those with contact with humans. All in all, that indicates a single source, rather than 'everything'.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Nope. by Megane · · Score: 2

      I would also blame gut parasites. For instance, simply having most of the human population wearing shoes significantly breaks the life cycle of tapeworms. Parasites and gut bacteria are one of the few things that could affect so many species all at the same time.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    2. Re:Nope. by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      Tape is mostly outdated. Nowadays we have harddisk worms except for some backup purposes.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    3. Re:Nope. by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      People wear footwear for quite a while already, many generations when it comes to tapeworms, yet the species has not been wiped out. Which is no surprise, as last time I heard about it we get tapeworms through eating uncooked meat, which may harbour the larvae of the worm.

      And when it comes to gut bacteria: without them, we'd die very quickly. In our bodies we have orders of magnitued more bactreria in the gut alone, than we have cells of our own.

  23. blame it on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    bush!

  24. Think Differently! by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    What is this shit?

    Better than an article about the iphone being the colour GOLD!....maybe

    1. Re:Think Differently! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Omg Robert. You brought your Apple bashing into a health article. A new record for even the great Tuppe666.

      Praise be to Google! Praise be to fanboys!

  25. I make you fat... by Macchendra · · Score: 1

    Now snout down in the trough, piggy, or else it gets the hose again...

  26. Mod this one down, then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Julian Simon pointed out, in the late 1960s, that humanity (and, presumably, any animal group depending on humans) has a history of continuous improvement.

    EVERY generation has had a better standard of life than its forebears. That includes food, so it is unsurprising that we class ourselves as 'fat' now. We are also, if anyone's interested. considerably TALLER (on average) than earlier generations. But no one seems to mention that. Because it isn't seen as bad.

    That was the other point Julian Simon made. He showed that, although everything was getting better all the time, people did not want to believe it, and continuously produced stories warning that civilisation was deteriorating, and that collapse was just round the corner. In the 1970s It was overpopulation - we were going to run out of food by the 1990s, and mass starvation would cause global wars. We have had a succession of scare stories ever since - none of which have been true.

    An 'obesity epidemic' sounds like just another one of these...

    1. Re:Mod this one down, then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are also, if anyone's interested. considerably TALLER (on average) than earlier generations.

      Excess carbohydrates can do that too (stimulation of growth hormone production).

    2. Re:Mod this one down, then... by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      EVERY generation has had a better standard of life than its forebears

      Utterly, demonstrably false.

    3. Re:Mod this one down, then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Utterly, demonstrably false....

      There speaks a brave, but moronic, protester. You actually think you know more than Simon about this?

      Do you know how much data Simon adduced to prove that point? That was the result of a lifetime's study of government datasheets on every conceivable subject.

      There's no point even asking you to produce any proof for your wild assertion. You can't. There isn't any. If there was, Simon would have found it...

  27. not going to read all that by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    can somebody condense it down to a 120 word paragraph?

    i think it is High Fructose Corn Syrup, they put it in almost everything, cookies, crackers, sodapop, non-dairy-coffee-creamer, prepared packaged foods, sauces, it might be just a few tablespoons per serving but over the course of the day you eat about a cup of that stuff everyday

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:not going to read all that by gmuslera · · Score: 1

      Add to diet sleep, stress, electric lightning, gut bacterial unbalance, air conditioning, popular alcoholic beberages (because in any meeting you must have a beer, or better yet, drink a lot, else you are an outsider), lack of exercise, and several etcs. Most of that is under your control, but who controls you? Tried to go to a supermarket?

      That food corporations are more interested in selling addictive food than of your health don't help a lot.

  28. Even the government by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    Now America is the lard of the free

  29. Betteridge's Law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    What's Causing the Rise In Obesity?

    No?

    Or is it under Godwin's jurisdiction:
    What's Causing the Rise In Obesity? Hitler

    Either way there's clearly no individual responsibility in it, we'll just blame everything.

  30. Don't Forget the Definition Has Changed by Psion · · Score: 1

    While this is hardly the sole culprit, in 1998, the the National Institute of Health adopted a new definition of overweight. That is responsible for at least part of the increase shown since that time.

    1. Re:Don't Forget the Definition Has Changed by Megane · · Score: 1

      Well, after all, there's no better way to increase the crime rate than to pass laws that define new crimes. The same can apply to obesity. But it still doesn't explain rural feral rats.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  31. Wasn't there some sort of virus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought there was a virus that makes mammals produce more fat cells. Did I dream that?

    1. Re:Wasn't there some sort of virus? by Macchendra · · Score: 2

      Not a dream. It is adenovirus 36. Mentioned in the article too. Every girlfriend I've ever had must have exposed me to this, lol.

  32. Convenience. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Convenience is the cause. Today we have more done for us than ever before, so we do less.

    The life I lead today is quite probably the easiest life ever lived:
    I get up. I sometimes eat breakfast. I get a 5 minute walk to work. I sometimes run to feel healthier. I sit for 4 hours. I eat my lunch. I sit for another 3 hours. I get another 5 minute walk home. I sit an hour. I microwave some food and eat it. I sit for another 8 hours. I lie down for another 8.

    At no point do I have to:
    1. Think
    2. Exercise
    3. Change

    I am not attracted by instinct to want to do more than the above. Muscles atrophy and weight is gained, but I survive. I'm not blaming the above vegetative behaviour on instinct as some external, haywire control over my body. This is what I am. I am a human being and I strive for mediocrity and so do you.

    As intelligent beings we want to abstract problem solving and control over systems to enhance our efficiency and minimise wastage. It's that same wastage we need to keep ourselves fit, physically and psychologically.

    Want a "transnational" solution? Reinstate survival of the fucking fittest.

  33. Lazyness by dadelbunts · · Score: 3, Insightful

    God i hate articles like this. Everything isnt causing obesity, lazyness is. Want to know why im fucking fat? Cus im fucking lazy and like to eat pizza while watching 4 episodes of TNG on Netflix. From people too lazy to go buy groceries ( i had someone tell me it was virtually impossible to buy groceries because they didnt have a car) to people being too fucking lazy to cook, or exercise even the slightest bit. You can eat whatever food you want, as many calories you want, if you burn it off you wont be fat, you might have other health complications but thats another story alltogether. Combined with people telling them that "its ok", "not your fault" and "out of your control" that make it worse. Obese people just go "oh its not my fault fuck it", stuff their faces with food, dont work out, baloon up, then shrug like they had no control over it. Its bullshit. People need to start accepting some personal responsibility for their actions.

    1. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Want to know why im fucking fat? Cus im fucking lazy and like to eat pizza while watching 4 episodes of TNG on Netflix

      Exercise is absolutely insignificant next to the baseline caloric intake. Any dietician will tell you the same. You have to get as much exercise as a marathon runner to lose substantial weight without changing your diet. It's almost ALL about diet.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    2. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I can't believe how lazy marmosets have gotten.

    3. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the hell is this laziness? (Nice typo in your summary by the way.) On a personal level, yes, it happens, I agree. But the article also describes how lab animals are getting fatter -- are you going to start complaining that lab animals are too lazy these days?

      This topic is very complicated, like gun rights... the solution that is necessary in the inner city is very different than the countryside, and is different for the responsible veteran and the psychologically disturbed drug addict. Any time you start making blanket statements, people with different experiences will jump on you from the other side.

    4. Re:Lazyness by Inda · · Score: 1

      I have to call bullshit.

      I burn an extra 400 calories a day on the crosstrainer. This equals 2,800 calories a week. It is the same as doing without food one day a week. Nearly 60 days a year without food.

      Today I'm 1.82m tall, 78kg fat. I was a massive (ha!) 83kg last year. All done with 15 minutes exercise a day, which is hardly marathon running.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    5. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Absolute nonsense. It's not simple calories burned by exercise (though even 300 calories / day, i.e. 30 mins jogging is a pound every 10 days if you don't increase food in, not bad). It's the fact that getting exercise will raise your resting metabolism. Stop taking advice from dieticians. Sure you can't eat poorly, but to say exercise is insignificant? Just wrong.

    6. Re:Lazyness by davide+marney · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Those lazy Marmosets, lab rats, mice, and chimps! No wonder they're getting fat.

      --
      "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
    7. Re:Lazyness by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      I can't believe we wasted some much time and money doing scientific research on this, when we could have just asked you to begin with! That would have saved us so much time. Before we do any other research on anything, please share with us all of your uninformed opinions!

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    8. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still, I have never seen anyone who exercises regularly and still is fat...

    9. Re:Lazyness by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      You're right: With a really aerodynamic bike you need to bike about 100 km a day to expend as much as you need as a baseline intake. That's a lot.

      Details:
      Efficiency (food to motion): 25%
      Bike: Quest (Cw 0.22)
      Speed: 50 km/h
      Road quality: awesome.
      No stops. No red lights.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    10. Re:Lazyness by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      This seems to be true for over 40 adults. Twentysomethings can train their way through an utter horrendous diet of wings and beer (trust me I did this).

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    11. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your comment oversimplifies the process of weight loss. Instead of hand-waving his comment away, why don't you actually talk to a dietician or doctor about the subject? No where in his comment did he claim that exercise was pointless as you seem to have interpreted it. It's simply not as important as a proper diet.

    12. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to get as much exercise as a marathon runner to lose substantial weight without changing your diet. It's almost ALL about diet.

      Yup, this is so true. I see so many people somehow thinking that walking a few stops rather than catching the bus will somehow make them magically thin. It won't especially if you don't keep strict control on your diet. The exercise will make you hungrier and you'll automatically eat a little bit more without realising it.

      I am a marathon runner. 50 miles a week of training works out at about 1,000 calories burnt per day... but I don't lose weight because I satisfy my increased hunger. Even if you're doing a lot of exercise you have to control what you eat as well.

    13. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have never seen anyone who exercises regularly and still is fat...

      You've got the cause and effect backwards... Fat will prevent you from doing much exercise, making you tire quickly, blowing out your joints, and your respiratory and circulatory systems just can't keep up with the huge demands on a body twice the normal size.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    14. Re:Lazyness by chrismcb · · Score: 1

      God i hate articles like this. Everything isnt causing obesity, lazyness is.

      So are you saying that over the past 20 years feral rats have become lazy?

    15. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I burn an extra 400 calories a day on the crosstrainer.

      You're effectively running 1/8th of a marathon each day, and you're doing it every single day, which is atypical, so almost a marathon each week.

      And you're STILL not burning a significant number of calories. You would completely erase all your work by just eating 5 cookies, or drinking 2 bottles of Gatorade.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    16. Re:Lazyness by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I went from nearly no exercise to cycling 25km (~16 miles) 6 days a week.
      The effect on my weight over a few months was negligible (the effect on my fitness, however, was significant - eg: resting HR from mid 80s to high 50s).

      Then I somewhat limited my caloric intake (mainly by cutting back on beer and cheese) and dropped 15kg (30lb) in six months.

      I got stuck at105kg (230lb) for about 2 years, despite upping my cycling to ~35km 6 days/week. I struggled to limit my caloric intake further because I ended up feeling ravenously hungry all the time.

      So now I'm trying a "feast/famine" system where I can eat "normally" 5 days a week, and eat very little (500 kcal or less) two days a week. Over the last six weeks that's shaved off another couple of kg, plus I only have to feel hungry all day twice a week - it's much more manageable because I can align those "hungry" days with the days I end up stuck in back to back meetings (and thus have limited access to snacking opportunities).

    17. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From now on we must work them harder to earn their food! No more lounging about in their cages, make them run in wheels to generate electricity.

    18. Re:Lazyness by RivenAleem · · Score: 2

      Well, if you've been doing plenty of regular exercise and still managed to get so fat you start to do damage to your joints, then something has gone seriously wrong somewhere.

      I do wonder at people who only put the slightest amount of skimmed milk in their tea/coffee because they are worried about their weight. I grew up drinking 2-3 pints of full fat milk a day, I absolutely loved the stuff. Though, the 3 (primary school) and 6 (secondary school) mile (10km) daily commute on the bike may be a contributing factor to keeping slim.

      The GP's comment is still valid, I do not see people who regularly exercise become/be fat. You'd have to be doing something deliberately wrong (be a sumo wrestler) to pull something like that off.

    19. Re:Lazyness by Chrondeath · · Score: 1

      Those laboratory marmosets were all like "Hey, man, we're going to hit the gym for a couple of hours, want to come?" but you were all "I already ordered a pizza and was going to play some League of Legends, you sure you don't want to stay and queue with me?" and the marmosets said "Eh, forget the gym, you've talked us into it."

    20. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that from a caloric perspective, he would save a lot of time and energy by not eating. However, if you simply restrict calories to loose weight without exercising, you will lose a lot of muscle too until you reach the minimum amount of muscle required to get through your day. Muscle only has 800 calories per pound compared to 3500 for fat.

      Exercise is absolutely vital to weight loss in a healthy way, even if it is impossible to out-exercise your capacity to eat. Resistance training is a better choice than cardio though.

    21. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's of course more complicated than exercise => thin, no exercise => fat. But I do believe that for most people, this is the most valid simplification (much more valid than overfeeding => fat). To answer you in more details:
      - the point of exercising is to tire, the quicker the better
      - you can exercise without harming your joints, swimming for example
      - the strain on your respiratory and circulatory systems is precisely what will make your body stop storing fat

    22. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's only part of it. 20 years ago we didn't have so much processed food, which is loaded with dead calories, the mothers were often at home cooking from basic ingredients. People have always had sedentary lifestyles, but the world is bloating up. Just watch programs from the 60s and 70s, then the 80s. In general people were slim with the odd porker. Unlike today.

      You'll be dead before your parents. Enjoy your pizza.

    23. Re:Lazyness by jomama717 · · Score: 1

      Fat will prevent you from doing much exercise, making you tire quickly, blowing out your joints, and your respiratory and circulatory systems just can't keep up with the huge demands on a body twice the normal size.

      These rationalizations don't help. Sure, a 350 lb. person deciding suddenly to start jogging 3 miles a day will likely regret it, but what about walking 200 yards a day? What about taking the stairs once in a while? Swimming? Biking? What about - gasp - not eating candy/ice cream/cup cakes/fruit loops/cookies/pancakes/cheeseburgers - ever.

      "Woe is me - McDonald's is the only food I have the time and money for...I'm a victim!!"

      Guess what, you can actually get healthy crap at fast food restaurants - they do carry fruits and vegetables and non-fried chicken, and it's just as cheap. Read through 100 comments on this article and you'll find 90 excuses for not having any will power and 10 people sick of the bullshit. That ratio is the epidemic, the obesity is just a symptom.

      --
      while [ 1 ]; do echo -n -e "\xe2\x95\xb$((($RANDOM&1)+1))"; done
    24. Re:Lazyness by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's only about diet if you make it about diet.

      Let me ask - if you got a $10000 check in the mail - say you won a small lotto prize - that would make a significant difference in what you could buy in entertainment over the next year, yes? More meals out, more movies, more shows - probably a 2-5 fold increase over normal? And yet, that's probably only 15-25% of your salary.

      Same thing with food. 1600-2200 calories a day for a full grown male would be a low-moderate activity bench mark rate. Add just 500 calories average of exercise a day and you go from counting every goddamned cornflake to draining a Big Gulp at lunch, or doubling your primary meal size a couple times a week.

      Put me on 1800 calories a day and I'll start looking for ways to cheat. Put me on 2300 calories a day and I don't even have to count.

      That 500 calories a day? 45 minutes running or swimming or cycling will burn that off. I get more than that walking 9 holes of golf. Heck, I probably burn more than that just working around the house on the weekends - no organized exercise required.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    25. Re:Lazyness by tygt · · Score: 1

      He's burning 400 kcal, and you claim that that would be erased by drinking 2 bottles of Gatorade - presumably because the nutritional information panel claims that it's got 400 kcal?

      Well, I for one doubt that ingesting 400 kcal of food causes you to *keep* 400 kcal that needs to be burned off fully. I don't know how much you do keep, but I'm sure it's not 100%, and it probably varies a ton by the food type.

      You do know how food calorie content is measured, right? They use a Bomb calorimeter, which burns the food in a high-pressure pure oxygen atmosphere, and measure how much heat comes off. Something tells me that your body's not getting nearly as much energy out of the food it ingests as that calorimeter does.

    26. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me guess, you're unfit. Why do sedentary folk always rationalize their poor lifestyle?

    27. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, using that cross-trainer helps keep his metabolism up for some hours afterwards.

    28. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > You do know how food calorie content is measured, right? They use a Bomb
      > calorimeter [wikipedia.org], which burns the food in a high-pressure pure oxygen
      > atmosphere, and measure how much heat comes off. Something tells me that
      > your body's not getting nearly as much energy out of the food it ingests as that
      > calorimeter does.

      Which is why most food labels are at the maximum error of under-reporting by almost 20%

    29. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're effectively running 1/8th of a marathon each day, and you're doing it every single day, which is atypical, so almost a marathon each week.

      And you're STILL not burning a significant number of calories. You would completely erase all your work by just eating 5 cookies, or drinking 2 bottles of Gatorade.

      Well-trained individuals can easily burn 20+ kcals *per minute* of exercise, especially while running. I train for triathlons. It's not atypical for me to burn through 1200-1800 kcals *in a single 60-90 minute workout.* That means I basically need to eat an additional breakfast and lunch right after I'm done working out in order for my body to recover.

      For reference, for a 2000-kcal typical diet, 400 calories is one fifth of what you would normally eat in a day. I don't know where you come from, but an additional half a meal is pretty significant.

      Exercise in trained individuals can easily burn a *significant* number of calories. My typical daily calorie intake is 3500 kcals/day, and it's *hard* to eat that much (healthy) food without feeling stuffed. So yeah, the "exercise doesn't burn significant calories" theory is definitely bullshit for someone trained.

    30. Re:Lazyness by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Still, I have never seen anyone who exercises regularly and still is fat...

      I do all the time. Go to the gym regularly and you'll start meeting people like that.

      Probably what you mean is, "I don't recognize anyone who is fat to exercise regularly." Your bias is affecting your data collection.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    31. Re:Lazyness by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      But that neglects the very real effect that exercise has on raising your metabolism. I've gotten in the habit of taking the cheapest transit into the city for work, then walking the mile from my stop to my office (and reversing it to go home). Two miles of walking doesn't make a huge difference in my calorie consumption, but it makes an enormous difference in my weight that week. If I walk, I lose weight. If I don't walk, I gain weight. For me, there's no in-between.

      You're exactly right that exercising solely to remove eaten calories is a sucker bet. I started thinking of my treadmill times in terms of snacks. "I think I just threw an aneurysm. I can't go any farther. WHAT?!? I'm only two Dr Peppers in?", and I keep going. That's also been responsible for me totally giving up sweetened drinks. Knowing how much work goes into burning off a soda totally kills my desire to have one. Still, I feel great and energetic all day after I work out. Even though I've ended my major exercise for the day, my body still feels ramped-up and ready for more for the rest of the evening. I'm guessing those post-workout extra metabolism boost burns off at least as much as the original exercise.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    32. Re:Lazyness by tbannist · · Score: 1

      I have to call bullshit.

      As do I.

      I burn an extra 400 calories a day on the crosstrainer.

      All done with 15 minutes exercise a day, which is hardly marathon running.

      You do not burn 400 calories in 15 minutes. You might burn 400 in an hour depending on speed and resistance, and if you're using the cross trainer an hour a day you might not be getting much less exercise than an amateur marathon runner.

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
    33. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't lose weight because you're doing it wrong. To lose weight through exercise, the first step should be to put on lean muscle mass. That means weightlifting, not running or bike-riding.

      Then after you've got muscle mass, starting mixing in some cardio.

    34. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kroger is on the fucking bus line. and the bus goes to walmart too. People shop by bus all the time. With a silver insulated bag. No prob. Done it my self.

    35. Re:Lazyness by snotclot · · Score: 1

      I concur, from my own self-experience. It is incredibly difficult to lose weight off of just cardio (even with a pretty good diet, too).

      I fixed my diet and started moderate exercise (~15 mins running day + weightlifting) and fixed my Bodyfat from 20+% to 15% in 3 months.

      I then decided I wanted to hit 10-12% bodyfat, so I started running 30 mins a day (3.5 miles a day) 6 days a week for 6 months. Diet got more restricted but probably not as much as I thought (perhaps 1800-2000 calories a day, target was 1700 cals a day).

      If lucky, I hit *maybe* 14% bodyfat, maybe 13% on a good day. That's it. I ran about a marathon a week literally for 6 months, but could not get rid of my remaining bellyfat (I had a very rough 4-pack, not even close to a 6-pack).

    36. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Burning those 400 (kilo)calories, during exercise, is only part of the story. After said exercise, your body has to recuperate, repair muscle tissue, and once that's done, it has to sustain these muscles. This process takes days (and is continuous if you exercise regularly) and actually burns more energy than the exercise itself. Please note that I'm not saying that this refutes your statement about the significance of lowering the calorie intake, but you're factor 2 or 3 off with your estimates.

    37. Re:Lazyness by tygt · · Score: 1

      I'm not doubting that my 4oz "serving" of ice cream contains 300 kcal - I'm just saying that my body isn't getting anywhere near the same amount of energy out of the ice cream as the bomb calorimeter does, so eating 300 kcal doesn't require nearly 300 kcal of energy expenditure to compensate.

    38. Re:Lazyness by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 1

      You would completely erase all your work by just eating 5 cookies, or drinking 2 bottles of Gatorade

      Yeah, any population that considers 5 cookies or 2 bottles of Gatorade to be an insignificant amount of food is going to have a weight problem. Just the thought of that much in addition to my normal diet over the course of a day makes me slightly ill.

      --
      Happy people make bad consumers.
    39. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point of exercise is to grow muscle which will raise your metabolism at rest ("baseline caloric intake"). If you can keep the food intake steady, you should start losing weight. The actual exercise that consumes 500 kcal helps, but the long-term effects are much more valuable.

    40. Re:Lazyness by geekoid · · Score: 1

      you trivial details don't actual detract from his point. That is 400 calories isn't a lot of calories.

      It is good for the heart and body in other ways, so no one should stop.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    41. Re:Lazyness by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "not having any will power"

      ah, but how to you change will power?
      I wonder if you know the large scientific research around that?
      If you are born with low will power, is it really your fault?
      No, don't answer. Look at the research.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    42. Re:Lazyness by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Showing, once again, a bike is a horribly inefficient way to loose weight.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    43. Re:Lazyness by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Man riding bike doens't burn more then he eats, doesn't lose weight. News at 11.

      Don't eat process sugar, don't eat more the 25g of fat per day. Write down everything you eat.
      You will loose weight.

      feat/famine isn't good for you,. t also doesn't work long term.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    44. Re:Lazyness by jomama717 · · Score: 1

      Oooh, wow, I didn't realize these victims were born afflicted with "LWP" syndrome. Give a f'ing break, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

      "You're lazy as hell and killing yourself with food."
      "Agreed. However, before I do anything about it I'll need for you to prove to me scientifically that it's my fault."

      Can you see the absurdity? Go for a walk sir.

      --
      while [ 1 ]; do echo -n -e "\xe2\x95\xb$((($RANDOM&1)+1))"; done
    45. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've seen people put fake sugar into coffee to save 15 calories and getting a 500 calorie scone. WTF are people thinking on that?

      Recently, I lost weight by bicycling, still have about 20-30 pounds to go, but messed up my knee by running 8 miles without realizing I needed to condition my joints first. This is a setback and there's definitely something to the sentiment. If I was lighter my joints wouldn't have been so punished.

    46. Re:Lazyness by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      It's only about diet if you make it about diet.

      It's all about diet unless you have the training regimen of an Olympic athlete. For most people it's going to be easier to cut out pop and pizza from their diet than exercise 8 hours a day, five or six days out of the week.

    47. Re:Lazyness by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      Man riding bike doens't burn more then he eats, doesn't lose weight. News at 11.
      I'm responding to people insisting all you need to do is add a little exercise. I added a fair bit of exercise (the cycling wasn't the only thing) and went basically nowhere.

      I should probably add that my weight had been stable for quite some time (years) beforehand. Ie: I wasn't gaining any weight.

      Don't eat process sugar, don't eat more the 25g of fat per day. Write down everything you eat.
      You will loose weight.

      Possibly, but at a significant cost to lifestyle and personal comfort.

      I've tried carefully controlling food intake at every point before. Firstly, it's a massive pain in the arse. Secondly, it left me feeling very hungry almost all the time, which was quite uncomfortable.

      feat/famine isn't good for you,. t also doesn't work long term.
      We'll see. The evidence seems to suggest it will, plus it seems to carry other health benefits as well.

      I'm confident my "normal" exercise and eating regime will allow me to sustain any somewhat healthy weight I reach. That has certainly been my experience over the last five-odd years. It's the losing it to get to that point that's been the problem.

    48. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having a gatorade bottle here in the office - for regular gatorade 80 cal/ 12 fl oz. 400 / 80 = 5 serverings * 12 fl oz = 60 fl oz! That's just under a 1/2 gallon. What size gatorades are you drinking bro?! 20 fl oz might be considered standard size which would give us 3 gatorades not 2.

    49. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You would completely erase all your work by just eating 5 cookies, or drinking 2 bottles of Gatorade.

      That'd be true if your body was a closed system.
      But it isn't. I'm not going to mince words here: if you shit a turd of 500g, that half kilo had to come from somewhere - it came partly from those cookies, so not all of those calories will count towards negating your exercise.

      There's also the fact that exercise increases your base metabolic rate, which causes your body to spend more energy even when you're sleeping.
      It also contributes in other less direct ways, such as lowering your stress levels (which have been strongly correlated to overeating) and introducing a positive-feedback where you're more likely to engage in further physical activity (i.e. taking the stairs instead of the lift).

      Exercising also signals your body that it needs those muscles, so it will be more likely to burn fat than muscle to make up for the energy deficit.

      Diet is in fact the most important factor in losing weight, but any regiment which discounts exercise is on shaky ground.

    50. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Yeah, any population that considers 5 cookies or 2 bottles of Gatorade to be an insignificant amount of food is going to have a weight problem. Just the thought of that much in addition to my normal diet over the course of a day makes me slightly ill.

      The idea with the cookies was the cutting out desert would be better than the exercise.

      And when you're exercising hard, hot and sweating, it's EASY to down an extra bottle of Gatorade without noticing.

      And it wouldn't make you "ill" at all. If you're burning those extra calories, you'll feel hungrier, and will likely eat more. You HOPE it won't be enough to negate the effect of the exercise, but that's quite often NOT the case.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    51. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 1

      but what about walking 200 yards a day? What about taking the stairs once in a while? Swimming? Biking?

      Walking isn't good exercise. Humans have an EXTREMELY efficient gait, and will burn fleetingly few calories until they up the speed to a jog. Of course starting anywhere is a good thing, but walking should be a short step on your way to actual exercise.

      What about - gasp - not eating candy/ice cream/cup cakes/fruit loops/cookies/pancakes/cheeseburgers - ever.

      Yes, diet (rather than exercise) will absolutely be the DOMINANT force in weight loss, which was my whole point.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    52. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 1

      As are all other forms of exercise...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    53. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Don't eat process sugar, don't eat more the 25g of fat per day.

      Show me one scientific report that shows that "processed" sugar is worse than unprocessed sugar. Despite what we've been told, a can of soda is healthier for you than fruit juice.

      You can get fat without ever eating any fat... And high-fat diets (Atkins) have been shown to be equally as effective as low-fat (high carb) diets.

      Write down everything you eat.
      You will loose weight.

      Is as much as maintaining that list will be time you can't use to stuff your face, it might help, but that's about it.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    54. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Put me on 1800 calories a day and I'll start looking for ways to cheat. Put me on 2300 calories a day and I don't even have to count.

      Somewhere in-between would be better... And while in the short-term you'll feel the desire to cheat, but after several weeks, your stomach will shrink, your body will be used-to smaller meals and less calories, you'll have more energy, and you won't be able to FORCE yourself to eat a 2300 calories a day... You'll have to keep upping your calorie count each day to get back up to being able to tolerate that much food, the same way you've had to gradually work your way down.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    55. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Two miles of walking doesn't make a huge difference in my calorie consumption, but it makes an enormous difference in my weight that week. If I walk, I lose weight. If I don't walk, I gain weight. For me, there's no in-between.

      Your weight over a week is not a sign of a longer trend, no even an accurate measure. Your body may hold as much as 15lbs of water weight, so people are fooled with quick results by being slightly dehydrated, or over hydrated. That's the margin of error, and without running a marathon or starving, you can't have that big of a real weight change in a week.

      That said, I don't want to discourage exercise... It is a very good thing, and it will *help* with weight loss and has any other benefits.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    56. Re:Lazyness by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      And what is stopping people from buying and cooking food? Its cheaper than eating out or ordering in. Being lazy.

    57. Re:Lazyness by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      It depends what your diet is. Also notice i said, being lazy and eating pizza. Its not hard to cook nutritious meals. Its not hard to exercise. Its not all about diet, its a combination of both. This isnt some new breakthrough either.

    58. Re:Lazyness by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

      Its bullshit for everyone. People just like to come up with excuses for why they are lazy slobs. EVERYONE knows that eating proper foods and exercising makes you lose weight. Same type of people that walk 15 minutes break a sweat beacause they are horribly out of shape and say they exercised, eat a ton of crap food afterwards and then say it doesnt work.

    59. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 1

      It's almost entirely about calories. Exercise is a small contributor, but insignificant next to diet. Whether your food is "nutritious" or not has extremely little effect on your weight and waistline.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    60. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 1

      I do not see people who regularly exercise become/be fat. You'd have to be doing something deliberately wrong (be a sumo wrestler) to pull something like that off.

      They certainly exist in significant numbers, and you even named one example to disprove your own assertion.

      Go look at any blue-collar jobs, and you'll find LOTS of unattractive fat people, who do large amounts of physical labor every day, yet stay overweight.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    61. Re:Lazyness by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Well, I for one doubt that ingesting 400 kcal of food causes you to *keep* 400 kcal

      Human digestion is pretty efficient on most foods we eat. Those foods your body does not absorb extremely well are known as "laxatives". Everybody knows what happens if you eat beans (or other very high fiber foods like some fruits and vegetables), because humans lack the enzyme (found in Beano) to effectively digest it. Some people have the same problem with lactose (milk, cheese, etc.), but that's not very common.

      If you aren't running to the bathroom an hour after eating, your body is very efficiently converting the food you ate into energy. And the calories from high-fructose corn syrup in the two examples I listed are particularly very easily processed.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    62. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, because a more worked out body uses more energy even at rest. So you can actually afford to eat a bit more than someone who never exercises

    63. Re:Lazyness by wienerschnizzel · · Score: 1

      Those lazy Marmosets, lab rats, mice, and chimps! No wonder they're getting fat.

      But they all are in fact getting less exercise then their wild counterparts. Plus a lot of them are bred to reinforce some specific traits like calmness. The more calm an animal, the less calories it burns (no running around, fidgeting etc.).

      Somehow the author of TFA forgot about that

    64. Re:Lazyness by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      By physical labor, do you mean people who operate heavy machinery? I've seen plenty of crane/dozer/digger operators who are overweight, because their canteen provides fatty foods, originally intended for people who are operating pickaxes and shovels.

      I haven't seen anyone who breaks rocks by hand (with hand tools) who is overweight.

      The sumo wrestler is someone who had gone out with the specific intention of gaining as much weight as they can manage, including eating very large meals and then going to sleep right after to encourage that excess energy to be deposited as fat.

    65. Re:Lazyness by microTodd · · Score: 1

      like to eat pizza while watching 4 episodes of TNG on Netflix

      That plan sounds pretty awesome, actually.

      --
      "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
    66. Re:Lazyness by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      With due respect, this is an experiment over many months. I've been using an UP band since last year to track stats like weight, sleep, calories, activity, etc. over time, and can say with a pretty strong confidence that d(weight)/dt very neatly corresponds to activity. The rest of my stats are more or less static, or at least consistently random.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    67. Re:Lazyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. Correlation, causation. I know a lot of people who don't exercise *because* they are fat. People only focus on the half that predicts fatness based on failure to exercise, not the other half of the feedback loop, by which they fail to exercise because they are fat. Break that, and break the loop.

  34. Marmalade? by dtmos · · Score: 1

    You got marmalade at a diner in St. Louis? As in, jam with fruit peel in it? That must be a first. Are you sure it wasn't just jam? While I'm sure it can be done, finding marmalade at a diner in the American Midwest is still quite a feat.

    Don't worry about feeling bad for wasting food. It's a common sentiment among those visiting the US. After one spends enough time shopping in a Costco or other bulk food warehouse, the feeling passes.

    1. Re:Marmalade? by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I'm an american and I fell bad for wating food. Why can't these diners offer an inexpensive 2 eggs, toast and a drink?
      I can get 4 pancakes, 2 eggs, hash browns and toast for 5 bucks.
      If I just want 2 eggs and toast? 6 bucks.
      WTF?

      2 eggs, toast coffees 3 bucks. Why down's that deal exist?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Marmalade? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the real cost of running a restaurant is in rent and payroll. The marginal materials costs savings from serving you two eggs instead of three eggs and zero pancakes instead of six pancakes comes out to a few cents, but you would want to pay a few dollars less because it's half as much food, nevermind that the ingredients on the super-jumbo breakfast combo special probably don't break two bucks when purchased in bulk.

      Sorry.

      If you want two eggs, a slice of toast, and a cuppa coffee, make it at home; that's what I do every morning.

  35. Eating too much by Charliemopps · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Personally I'm a bit tired of all of these media invented excuses. If you're overweight in almost all cases with very few exceptions it's YOUR fault.
    You eat too much.
    You eat crappy food.
    And you likely have all sorts of psychological excuses to make the above two points plausibly not your fault in your own mind.

    While going to college I worked as a cashier at a grocery store for a while and saw it all. Morbidly obese people coming in on Food Stamps or other government assistance because they were "Disabled" due to their weight, and using those funds to buy almost entirely junk food. And no small amount either. Cases upon cases of Soda, frozen chicken wings, etc... The ironic part was they seemed to feel he most guilty at the checkout and I, their cashier was their confessor. So they'd tell me all about how this was the "Diet" Swanson's family pack of salsbury steak yet they still couldn't lose any weight!!!

    Too each their own, if you want to eat until you're 500lbs and die of a heart attack at an early age? If you think "Big is beautiful" or whatever the catch phrase is now... great! I'm cool with that. But lets not let people lie to themselves. Yes there may be a lot of environmental factors that make gaining weight easier now, and you may have some societal engrained habits that are hard to break, but the choice is still yours. There's no undiscovered bacteria that's going to make you obese even if eat salads all day (yes, I've had people tell me this was why they were over weight) It's a very simple process, eat less... a lot less, and you will lose weight. There is no such thing as big boned, you are not just a "big person" you can be as skinny as any person on TV if you want, although maybe not as attractive and successful, at least you wont die at 45.

    Yes I realize that now every obese person with a Grande Mocha Cookie Crumble Frappuccino in their hand is going to mod me down this morning... but hey, I'll outlive you anyway, so mod away!

    1. Re:Eating too much by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Personally I'm a bit tired of all of these media invented excuses. If you're overweight in almost all cases with very few exceptions it's YOUR fault.

      And the animals that are gaining weight, too? For instance, did we all of a sudden start overfeeding lab rats and lab mice? Did ferral dogs and cats all of a sudden start ignoring nature and quit eating when full? It's one thing for humans, it's another thing for the animals mentioned in the article.

    2. Re:Eating too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And if you are stupid it is also your fault, just like being small or tall or male or female, that's all your own fault. Don't understand quatum mechanics, your fault. Don't speak Mandarin, your own fault, billions of people can, why not you? Of course when you are poor and starving too death, that's also all your fault. Forget all the contributing factors and ignore anything that may help or explain why it is so hard to change your condition, in the end it all your own fault.

    3. Re:Eating too much by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

      Same cause. They're eating too much. Over abundance of food and they have no concept of obesity or early death. There have been studies that have shown links between abundance of food, Obesity, early death and advanced genetic mutation. In short, in the wild, if you've got lots of food, you get fat and live even if you have a mild mutation. You have a better chance of passing on your mutated genes but as a trade off you die early which extends the abundance of food situation for your offspring.

    4. Re:Eating too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Breaking news, fat blogger disproves Thermodynamics!

    5. Re:Eating too much by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      There's no undiscovered bacteria that's going to make you obese even if eat salads all day (yes, I've had people tell me this was why they were over weight) It's a very simple process, eat less... a lot less, and you will lose weight.

      OK, blast me for the example, but salads are not necessarily that healthy. Just look at the dietary information of a McDonald's salad (they publish those things these days; where I live on the back of your placemat). The amount of calories is quite similar to most of their burgers.

      Of course the calories are not in the greens. They're in the cheese, meat, and especially the oily dressing that's added to the salads. Not adding the dressing (they serve it separately so that's easy) can cut the calories in such a McDonald's salad in half. Taking a "green salad" that contains little cheese and no meat instead of a "chicken deluxe salad" or however those things are called, also helps a lot.

    6. Re:Eating too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the mindblowing part, animals in cages fed (presumably) the same amount of calories that they used to be fed are now getting fat. I know exactly why I'm fat, it's because I'm free to sit on my ass and drink beer.

    7. Re:Eating too much by Time_Ngler · · Score: 1

      That doesn't explain lab rats, unless their catching them in front of the dumpster out back. From the FA:

      ... the weight gain is also occurring in species that human beings don’t pamper, such as animals in labs, whose diets are strictly controlled. In fact, lab animals’ lives are so precisely watched and measured that the researchers can rule out accidental human influence: records show those creatures gained weight over decades without any significant change in their diet or activities.

    8. Re:Eating too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It isn't any one thing, but bashing people and all the misinformation out there is not helping anyone. There are lots of food issues now, there are thyroid problems ( Much more than ever due to food chemicals and fluoride in the water.), lifestyle changes.. but for most now I think its the excitotoxins... look it up they are drugging people and if you are affected all the power to you.

    9. Re:Eating too much by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an uninformed idiot. Such an idiot, that you don't even require rebuttal, because it will be lost on you anyway, just like public education was.

    10. Re:Eating too much by ponraul · · Score: 1

      Checkmate!

    11. Re:Eating too much by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      Same cause. They're eating too much. Over abundance of food and they have no concept of obesity or early death. There have been studies that have shown links between abundance of food, Obesity, early death and advanced genetic mutation. In short, in the wild, if you've got lots of food, you get fat and live even if you have a mild mutation. You have a better chance of passing on your mutated genes but as a trade off you die early which extends the abundance of food situation for your offspring.

      That's not true. In the wild, if there is excess food, the animals don't get fat. Animals in the wild do not overeat, even with an abundance of food. They do, however, produce lots of babies when there is extra food. Those offspring consume the excess food causing a shortage and only the fittest survive the lack of food to pass on their genetic code. But again, in nature if there is excess food, animals do not over eat. They do, however, over populate.

    12. Re:Eating too much by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Out of five pet cats so far, we've given them all the food they wanted and they've never gotten obese. Some have been overweight for a time, but have adjusted.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  36. Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There is absolutely nothing that says that processed or manufactured food should be any different form other food.

    That's because nobody would ever say anything so ridiculous, since it's false. Processed and manufactured food bears almost no relationship at all to natural organic food except inasmuch as some of the pure chemicals that they both contain are identical.

    The bulk of industrial processed food is completely different in structure, texture, in its overall nutritional balance, in its micro-nutrients, and in the many toxins it contains. And the bad processed food is accompanied by equally bad environmental byproducts of the industrial food and farming chemical industries, such as the widespread presence of glyphosate not only in our food but in our water and even air.

    That we and animals in our environment are unavoidably being affected through ingesting a manufactured diet of chemicals is not an outlier theory, it would be a miracle if it were not happening. We know it is because our gut flora is a mess, and our lab animals show the same symptoms whereas in the wild they do not.

    1. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      manufactured diet of chemicals

      Oh noes, the chemicals! I hear that processed foods can even contain dihidrogen monoxide, that one's a real killer.

    2. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      toxins...

    3. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's because nobody would ever say anything so ridiculous, since it's false. Processed and manufactured food bears almost no relationship at all to natural organic

      Organic is a word that doesnt even have a scientifically defined meaning (unless we're talking organic chemistry, which, guess what, organic farmers are not). Its a stupid buzzword defined arbitrarily by legislation based on some stupid assumption that a naturally derived chemical is different than a synthetically derived one. Sometimes that may be true (the synthetic may have byproducts in it). Sometimes its false and just raises prices (rainwater is probably not healthier than water produced in a lab by burning hydrogen).

      Read up here.

      Let me summarize the differences:
      Nutrition--

      A 2012 survey of the scientific literature did not find significant differences in the vitamin content of organic and conventional plant or animal products, and found that results varied from study to study.

      Contamination--

      while literature reviews found no significant evidence that levels of arsenic, cadmium or other heavy metals differed significantly between organic and conventional food products.
      ...
      Only three studies reported the prevalence of contamination exceeding maximum allowed limits; all were from the European Union.[6] The American Cancer Society has stated that no evidence exist that pesticide residue will lead to any form of cancer.

      Bacteria--

      The 2012 meta-analysis determined that prevalence of E. coli contamination was not statistically significant (7% in organic produce and 6% in conventional produce). Four of the five studies found higher risk for contamination among organic produce.

      Can it be? Theres actually no real science behind "organic is healthier" other than perception bias? Wow, what a shocker.

    4. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OMG! CHEMICALS!

      You know what? Everything - literally everything - is made of chemicals.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    5. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you eat rice? Do you eat all your food raw, including rice, wheat, meat, unpasteurized milk, and unwashed fruits and vegetables? Do you climb the tree to eat the fruit without picking it, or washing it when you get it home to make sure that rat droppings from its storage trip don't get into your "digestive flora"? Do you eat your fish or meat while hte animal is alive? Do you stick your tongue into the ground to lick up your carrots and potatoes? If you eat cheese, why aren't you sucking the milk directly from the cows or goat's teats instead.

      You need to rethink how "unprocessed" your food is.

    6. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Organic is a word that doesnt even have a scientifically defined meaning (unless we're talking organic chemistry, which, guess what, organic farmers are not)

      I can assure you that my local farmers are composed almost entirely of water and organic compounds.

    7. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by WhatAreYouDoingHere · · Score: 1

      Organic is a word that doesnt even have a scientifically defined meaning (unless we're talking organic chemistry, which, guess what, organic farmers are not). Its a stupid buzzword defined arbitrarily by legislation based on some stupid assumption that a naturally derived chemical is different than a synthetically derived one.

      Aww, don't shatter my bubble! And all along, I thought I was getting premium carbon-based goods when I purchased organic.

      --
      "What are you doing here, Elijah?"
    8. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The American Cancer Society has stated that no evidence exist that pesticide residue will lead to any form of cancer.

      Sometimes things are better left to intuition regardless of a lack of scientific evidence. That doesn't mean that people should panic like they do here, but let's be honest with ourselves. Even if pesticide residue doesn't cause cancer, you can't convince me that it's not bad for me. How bad is open for discussion. For all I know it could be nearly harmless or it could be certain to reduce my lifespan by 10 years. Obviously you can't avoid everything that is harmful. There are a lot of things in our environment causing micro amounts of harm to us and simple logic tells us that they probably compound on eachother much as this article suggests. Now I think industrialized farming is great for what it has done for the availability of food. However, it would be wise of us to reassess what the real cost of food is (without subsidization) and consider what practices should be altered or abandoned.

    9. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I worked on a farm for a little bit and might be able to shed some light on this.

      Organic vs Conventional farming is more about a process to growing vegetables and produce then about no chemical fertilizers vs chemical fertilizers.

      Organic was more fuel intensive due to the need to cultivate and harrow so much ground to kill weeds (and if it rained before you could plant you were harrowing again!). You did spray a bit as well. Not insecticides but fertilizer that was considered organic. We sprayed mixtures to change the pH level in plants so bugs would leave them alone.

      The conventional farming had a greater impact on soil density due to heavy equipment and the need to spray more. One didn't really yield more if done correctly.

      Organic requires more preperation for the ground as well. In the end conventional vs organic vegetables at the table? No real nutritional difference or health hazards.

      Meat is a little more tricky. The cows that were fed out on the pasture were definitely more lean then grain or hay fed ones. Probably due to the ability to actually graze over sitting in a small area waiting for the daily feed. We didn't use any weird feeds. Just hay, corn, and grains that were grown on our farmland

      This was all at the middle size farm(600 acres), commercial level.

    10. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Single study. Others say otherwise. Also ignores pesticide residues, environmental impacts, taste, etc.

    11. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a pretty big difference in "processing" between "picking an apple, washing it, eating it" and "picking an apple, running it through half a dozen mechanical separation, pulping, juicing, and dehydration processes to create apple-flavored juices and gel to fill a Little Debbie Snack Cake, when combined with half a dozen other flavoring, coloring, and preservative chemicals."

      The suggestion that an apple is "almost as processed" as the Little Debbie snack cake is fucking ridiculous, and signifies that you are either on the payroll of a large agribusiness (thus engaging in willful stupidity), or one of the most benightedly ignorant fools I've ever seen post on Slashdot. And that's going some.

    12. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah? What is this post made of?

    13. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The human body contains various metals. Even so, you probably don't want me to fashion some into a ball and insert it artificially into you.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    14. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I only eat unbonded atoms, just to play it safe.

    15. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Bad choice of words- unprocessed, or 'whole foods' is better than 'organic'

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    16. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 1

      Not fundamental particles. Or photos. Or the mathematics of wonton-burrito meals.

    17. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      "Organic compounds", If i recall from my chemistry days, are those which involve carbon bonds. Water, notably, is not an "organic" substance, nor are bones; so farmers are actually not mostly organic-- though they are indeed mostly water.

    18. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Even if pesticide residue doesn't cause cancer, you can't convince me that it's not bad for me

      As noted in one of the differences, sometimes "organic" means "more likely to be contaminated with e coli, and less likely to have been sterilized by irradiation".

      So while there MAY be some detriment to pesticide residue, Im darn sure that that e coli is worse for you.

    19. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Please define "whole foods", and "processed".

      The reason people see the "organic" fad as snake oil is because, like most snake oil, it lives and breathes vague, ambiguous definitions and claims. WHAT is the benefit? WHAT does organic mean? What is the threat from synthetic? For some reason, this stuff is never quantified, its just left in misty, ambiguous terms that dont mean anything.

    20. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      I think by reading the context of the parent you answered too....he meant "organic vs processed foods" more in terms of foods that are highly processed, man made...vs foods closer to the ground, ie veggies, fruits, even meats that come more from nature.

      I don't think he was entering the organic vs conventional argument on food raising.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    21. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Taste is a form of perception. You left out milk. Drink organic milk for a couple of weeks. Then buy a carton of regular milk and take a whiff. The regular milk smells and tastes like rot. If you are furunate enough to live in a state that does not mandate recycling of eggs so you may be able to actually get a fresh organic egg then the taste difference is immediate and profound. Organic agriculture and husbandry is more about what we are doing to the land that we rely upon and what practices we support with our habits and purchasing decisions. Mathematics is not science but it is also not nonsense. It is a discipline. Increasing soil depth is a lot healthier than depleted soil from a perspective utside you narrow frame. Where is standard agriculture once the phosphorus runs out?

    22. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      I agree that "organic" is mostly a way to separate fools and their money, but when you talk about unprocessed whole foods (although exceptions are usually made for ovens and knives), I think you're pretty clearly talking about something that's better for you than Doritos.

    23. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by tolkienfan · · Score: 1

      You missed the whole point to rant on about the imprecision of the term organic.

      Take modern supermarket foods. The fresh fruits and veggies are high in vitamins and fiber. Now look at canned fruits and veggies, frozen foods etc... low to no fiber vastly reduced vitamins and other nutrients.
      Look at canned sweet corn: low nutrients, low fibre, and added sugar.

      His underlying point was correct.

    24. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      What are "micro nutrients"? Many manufactured foods are made in very similar ways to hand made food, except that it's done in bulk; giant mixers, conveyer belts, etc. These foods are not first reduced to vats of chemicals before being recombined. They start with raw natural ingredients. Yes there may be additives. But the same flour used at home to make bread is the same flour that goes into the mixing vats; the same eggs, the same milk, the same fruit, etc.

      If some of the additives are toxic then work to abolish them instead of having a blanket ban on any industrial manufacturing of food, because not everyone can afford the "organic" ingredients you prefer. While we're at it, it would be nice if people stop using pseudo scientific phrases like "white flour has no nutritional value".

    25. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by sjames · · Score: 1

      Yes, some delicious, some yucky. Some nutritious, some lethal. Some we have evolved to eat for millions of years, some introduced just a few short years ago.

      Melamine is a chemical that we certainly don't appreciate being added to food.

    26. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by visigoth · · Score: 1

      Yep. Also, because it's so heavily "processed", much of its nutritional value (vitamins, minerals, other trace nutrients we may not even know about yet) are destroyed, and when manufacturers even care to correct this they "fortify" the end product to try to replace the missing/destroyed nutrients, resulting in a completely different composition than the original raw food materials had, further contributing to the mess, and probably contributing to 'binge eating' in many cases as the body craves something that is missing from the processed foods being consumed, triggering further consumption.

    27. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 1

      > based on some stupid assumption that a naturally derived chemical is different than a synthetically derived one

      People don't eat chemicals -- synthetic or "natural" -- in isolation, they eat food. The stupidest assumption of all is that complex systems can be reduced to a collection of individual chemical reactions that are the "same" in the lab and in the body.

      But forget theory. Just ask yourself, what do we have to show for decades of tampering with food sources, inventing new kinds of fats and sweeteners and adding chemicals to food?

    28. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Every time I see the marketing label "organic food", I want to know where the "inorganic food" is. ;)

      [My college major was biochemistry.]

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    29. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      It depends on what particular organic label your food has on it. A Tilth certification for example, means a hell of a lot more than "some stupid assumption that a naturally derived chemical is different than a synthetically derived one".

    30. Re:Processed food is NOT the same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (rainwater is probably not healthier than water produced in a lab by burning hydrogen).

      There will be no minerals at all in that lab water. Many of the minerals are beneficial, so rainwater in a clean region is probably healthier than the burnt lab water. Unclean water is of course less healthy.

  37. Too much (bad) food, too little exercize by Alejux · · Score: 0

    Any other reason is just BS.

  38. Mind which definition we're talking about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why yes, that put its definition of "overweight" in line with the world health organisation's. In other words, one could just as easily make the case that the NIH was in denial before. And if that wasn't enough, there's a recommendation to lower that boundary for Asians to "around 23". Go figure.

    The thing is, though, that we're seeing more people, relatively as well as absolutely (the latter would figure given a growing population) with BMI well over that, since "obese" starts at BMI 30. And that definition didn't change.

    It is true that BMI is not a magic number that tells you whether you're healty or not. So while there's a valid point to be made about BMI being problematic on various grounds, your attempt does not.

  39. so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by cheekyboy · · Score: 1, Troll

    Maybe it was all the nuke testing done on the planet, seriously, 500+ nukes in the air and orbit and underground, cant be healthy can it.

    Never in the history of the 4 billion years , has so much radioactive material been spread so far and wide.

    Thanks a lot oldies who believed their govts and still do.

    --
    Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    1. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by dreamchaser · · Score: 0

      There are no nuclear weapons in orbit. It's been forbidden for decades under treaty.

    2. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Radioactivity does not work that way!!!

    3. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe it was all the nuke testing done on the planet, seriously, 500+ nukes in the air and orbit and underground, cant be healthy can it.

      Ah, there's that phrase I love: can't be healthy/good for you. It seems every time I hear or see that phrase, it's someone who doesn't really quite know what they are talking about and just has a hypothesis from their gut. They want to say it's bad for you, but have absolutely no evidence of that, so they just say it can't be good.

    4. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no nuclear weapons in orbit. It's been forbidden for decades under treaty.

      Also, there have been no wars between the parties to the General Treaty for Renunciation of War as an Instrument of National Policy since 1928 when they agreed not to use wars to resolve disputes or conflicts of whatever nature or of whatever origin. Since then these countries including the UK, USA, Germany, the Soviet Union, Latvia, Afghanistan, Serbia and Croatia have enjoyed mutual idyllic peace. What would we do without treaties?

    5. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      Hmmm. Don't think so. The survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not fatter than their contemporaries. In fact if they survived the first few years they lived as long as everyone else. This holds true for the 100+ people who had the misfortune (or great luck) to survive BOTH Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    6. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      Actually I got to the part about plastics and realized that not only do I not drink soda I'm the only person in the house that refuses to drink or eat from plastic containers. I also refuse to go to the doctor or take any prescription drugs unless I'm really bad. When my wife and I both get sick at the same time she will go to the doctor and get a prescription and I will have plenty of fluids and chicken soup. {She might bounce back a day earlier} I am the skinniest person in the family but get no where near as much exercise as the rest of the family and have a much easier time maintaining my weight.

    7. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      How would we know until we discovered it?

      This is the problem with such blatant statements. It often is merely "we haven't studied to see if low levels of radiation might have that affect."

    8. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      They were high dose exposure, not extremely low dose. What if a low dose of radiation triggers a biological mechanism to store energy. Perhaps because in the past such levels were associated with solar activity.

    9. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by PortHaven · · Score: 1

      Plastic man was thin,...

    10. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 0

      Some small fraction of each above ground nuclear explosion must have obtained orbital velocity. I personally doubt that the pollution would be enough to disturb anything, but then again introducing even a small amount of heavy nucleii into the Van Allen belts might possibly trigger something. We know from experience in sociology that strange things can happen when heavy metal gets high.

      --
      Will
    11. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if a low dose of radiation triggers a biological mechanism to store energy.

      Then people living in Denver would be fatter than people living in Des Moines. The actual obesity rate in Denver is 16.2%, and in Des Moines 30.5% (US DHHS).

    12. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      The plastic cups that I am always throwing away are from convenience store and they were all full of soda... so I was thinking and have for some time that my family drinks way to much soda. Probably a more likely cause than the plastic itself.

      Any one of my sons all a little overweight drink more soda in a week than I drink in a decade

    13. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then everyone everywhere would always have been fat, due to background radiation...

    14. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by wooferhound · · Score: 1

      We are exposed to Natural radiation all the time
      http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/glossary/background-radiation.html

      Background radiation
      The natural radiation that is always present in the environment. It includes cosmic radiation which comes from the sun and stars, terrestrial radiation which comes from the Earth, and internal radiation which exists in all living things. The typical average individual exposure in the United States from natural background sources is about 300 millirems per year

      --
      We are Dead Stars looking back Up at the Sky
    15. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're actually the skinniest city in America...thank you very much.

    16. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no nuclear weapons in orbit. It's been forbidden for decades under treaty.

      I think GP is referring to starfish prime

    17. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      500? try >2500

    18. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by danlip · · Score: 1

      (replying to negate an accidental mod, sorry)

    19. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by Fenster+Karton · · Score: 0

      Maybe it was all the nuke testing done on the planet, seriously, 500+ nukes in the air and orbit and underground, cant be healthy can it.

      Ah, there's that phrase I love: can't be healthy/good for you. It seems every time I hear or see that phrase, it's someone who doesn't really quite know what they are talking about and just has a hypothesis from their gut. They want to say it's bad for you, but have absolutely no evidence of that, so they just say it can't be good.

      just what would constitute evidence for you? infant mortality? cancer rate? a signed confession?

    20. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by dublin · · Score: 1

      Noticed at the grocery store the other day that they've finally stopped selling even the small glass jars of mayonnaise, so there's no option but buy plastic or make your own (not all that hard, but a PITA.) In the last few years, it's become nearly impossible to buy most foods in glass or even non-plastic-lined metal containers.

      Putting so much of our food into intimate contact with plastics, and the rise of increased aluminum exposure from antiperspirants (a generation or two ago, deodorants outsold antiperspirants) are two of the bigger changes that can be identified from before the obesity epidemic. (The article also ignores RF exposure, either of the body, or our food (via microwaves). Granted, there's no real evidence that most such exposure is harmful, but when I was a kid, there were only a few fat kids, and everyone knew who they were. Our parents and grandparents were almost all quite lean. Today, it's the skinny kids that stand out. That means we should be looking at everything that's different - as TFA points out, this obesity epidemic is likely a compound effect.)

      Many xenoestrogens (xenobesigens?) such as BPA and pthalates are particularly easily dissolved in fats and oils, so plastic containers for things like mayo, yogurt, butter, and the like (and plastic film wrapping all our meat) seem like an especially bad idea...

      --
      "The future's good and the present is nothing to sneeze at." - Roblimo's last ./ post
    21. Re:so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Well here's the possible results of the fallout from 500+ nuke tests on your health:

      1. Good for you.
      2. No effect.
      3. Bad for you.

      It may be bad for you, or it may very well have no effect. But I'm pretty damn sure it's not good for you.

  40. Re:Complex Systems by hoboroadie · · Score: 1

    I've been raising crops of dirt for about twenty years, and the complexity of the system is nearly beyond ken. Amazing stuff; I am certain that the true nature of our stomach flora is far from understood by most of these experts.

    --
    They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
  41. Working Hard by puddingebola · · Score: 1

    Working hard to keep up the trend of obesity, sitting here eating a tub of lard and drinking a Coke, watching TV.

    1. Re:Working Hard by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      Have you tried coke zero?

  42. personally... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I blame the plow

  43. It's evolution, stupid! by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

    Humans, like most animals, evolved in an environment where food was scarce. We're built to eat as much as we can handle whenever we can handle it, because back in the day we had no idea when our next meal would be. Sure, it might give us diabetes or other nasty problems, but starvation was more likely than obesity to kill us before we could reproduce.

    That's somewhat different than, say, most dogs, who have no concept of appetite and will eat any food available regardless of whether their digestive tract can handle it.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    1. Re:It's evolution, stupid! by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      And nature would take care of keeping us slim, thanks to natural scarcity of food (plus the exercise one gets while searching for that food).

      It does not explain why we get obese now. It only explains why we can get obese to begin with.

    2. Re:It's evolution, stupid! by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      And nature would take care of keeping us slim, thanks to natural scarcity of food (plus the exercise one gets while searching for that food).

      I've always complained that when I eat fast food I get fat. When a wild cheetah eats fast food, they stay skinny.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    3. Re:It's evolution, stupid! by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      It does not explain why we get obese now. It only explains why we can get obese to begin with.

      Yes it does: If your limbic system (your core emotional system) says "eat", that will tend to override anything the more rational parts of the cerebrum say. For a simple household experiment, get some tasty chocolate chip cookies, set them out in front of you, and see how long you can go without eating one, even if you've just had a nice meal.

      We get obese now because the food's available, it's as simple as that. In every other period of human history, starvation was much more common than obesity.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    4. Re:It's evolution, stupid! by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      For a simple household experiment, get some tasty chocolate chip cookies, set them out in front of you, and see how long you can go without eating one, even if you've just had a nice meal.

      I tried that but the results were inconclusive. I couldn't hit the button on my stopwatch because my hands were full, and by the time I could, the cookies were gone.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    5. Re:It's evolution, stupid! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I recally, the training process for dogs to learn to not overeat (so you can leave them with kibble available for a week when you will be out) basically involves letting them gorge themselves as puppies. Most dogs will learn after one or two tries that the food is effectively infinite and to eat what they think they need.

  44. Wow by guyniraxn · · Score: 1

    I guess it's not too surprising how the "experts" here at /. are either completely dismissing the article or haven't even bothered to read it. Par for the course, I suppose. Some people are lazy and eat crap, this is true. But some of those people look fit as hell or are just skinny. Some exercise and follow a proper diet and are still overweight. To say that obesity is only caused by lazy over-eaters is to deny reality, all you have to do is open your eyes and take a look around. We've had articles for years mentioning the adverse affects of processed foods and chemicals ending up in our food and water, why is it so hard to believe them?

    1. Re:Wow by Svenia · · Score: 1

      My sister and I would be a prime example of someone who just happens to hold weight vs. someone who just happens to be skinny. We've always been polar opposites in terms of personality, and are 8 years apart with myself being the oldest. We're the same height, I have wider hips and rib cage structure but I've always struggled much more with excess weight in general (all over proportionately).When I was 18 I would eat very healthy {I don't mean diet sodas when I say healthy, I mean boiled chicken and veggies, etc) and run at least 5+ miles per day, plus weights and other forms of being active (my job involved a lot of walking, I was a full time student, etc) and the absolute lowest I could attain was about 130 pounds (at 5'3") and a size 8 pant. She's turned 18 this year, she's not very active (she enjoys shopping and walking, but no real running, etc) and she eats whenever and however she wants. She's a size 2 on a bad day, about 110lbs at the same height.

      I've always consider this to just be a bad luck draw on genetics (I have a lot of other health problems she's never encountered) but also my parents were dirt poor when I was growing up. It was until I was about 10, she was around 2 that we came into money. So as I was growing up food was very scarce and poor quality. It was stressful, and she's never dealt with that. She was able to go to the doctor and dentist every year, I wasn't. So I think lack of medical care, crap luck on genetic draw and poor early diet could all be contributing factors to instances of people with the same genetic line but very different results. It'd be interesting to see this type of situation we went through on genetically identical twins.

  45. Side effect of increased production efficiency? by Nightlight3 · · Score: 1

    Did wild fish, wolves, foxes, lions... i.e. animals not relying on human-made food get obese? I didn't see any of those mentioned in the article. It seems the common thread is that obesity increased in the organisms eating food manufactured by humans and that food did change significantly over the last several decades.

    The need to boost yield (weight gain) of food sources must have had a downstream biochemical side-effect of boosting the yields (weight gains) of anyone consuming such foods. For example growth hormones and antibiotics will cause weight gain in farm animals and in those eating them. That may be true for other types of food (non-animal) and other mechanisms, whether they were deliberately introduced to boost the production efficiency or merely empirically absorbed into the production practices (whatever works).

    1. Re:Side effect of increased production efficiency? by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      Did wild fish, wolves, foxes, lions... i.e. animals not relying on human-made food get obese? I didn't see any of those mentioned in the article. It seems the common thread is that obesity increased in the organisms eating food manufactured by humans and that food did change significantly over the last several decades.

      ...

      You'll notice that there are practical problems with gathering accurate average weight information on populations of genuinely wild wolves, foxes, lions, etc. - (with catch and release fish are probably much easier, but this may be a mammal-only thing). They analyzed data which was actually available, mostly laboratory animals, and the numerous 'wild' small mammals in the form of rodents. It would be rash to assume that this was wholly caused by eating manufactured food as opposed, say, to synthetic chemicals encountered through other means.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
  46. Americana by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every time I visit the US, I realize why everyone there is so big. Virtually all the food that's easily available is utterly unhealthy (mostly fat and sugar). And even in those cases when it's relatively normal food, then the portion sizes are anyway WAAAY too big. I can order a breakfast and get a meal that covers half of my daily intake.

    If you order a coke, you'll get 0.5-1 liters. If you order a coke here, you'll probably get 0.25-0.4 liters.

    I suppose if you live in the US, you might be blind to this.

    1. Re:Americana by gatkinso · · Score: 1

      You wish it were fat and sugar. It is actually some factory version of them.

      --
      I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
    2. Re:Americana by Nightlight3 · · Score: 1

      When went on vacations for 3 weeks to the 'old country' and came back, everything looked huge and spread out here, roads, buildings, cars, houses, yards, people... It was surreal the first couple hours after the return.

  47. Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And did they control for people leaving the horrible sweaty restaurant for somewhere with air con and establish the number of people in there was the same but they were ordering less?

    "A restaurant on a warm day whose air conditioning breaks down will see a sharp decline in sales (yes, someone did a study). "

    BS article. Science writer doesn't leave references. Wasted my time again.

  48. Getting .... _getting_? by fygment · · Score: 1

    Dudes and dudettes, you _are_ fat. And have been for a while. If anything is new, it's just that there seems to be more 'morbid' obesity.

    --
    "Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
  49. TL;DR by unwesen · · Score: 1

    The TL;DR version is the rather less spectacular "The problem with diets that are heavy in meat, fat or sugar is not solely that they pack a lot of calories into food; it is that they alter the biochemistry of fat storage and fat expenditure, tilting the body’s system in favour of fat storage."

    Yes, we've known that for a while.

  50. Great Reasoning Here on Slashdot: by Hartree · · Score: 1

    Yep. Those lab animal's controlled diets really are changed by human plate diameter.

    You can go over and fight it out in the corner with the ones who are convinced it's sugar (when we use more HFCS), or that it's HFCS, when many of the countries that have seen weight gain use more sucrose rather than HFCS.

    And there's another corner for those who think it's TV (those lab animals watch so much of it) to fight with the crowd that thinks it's GMOs.

    We've got lots of people in this thread who "know" what the cause is.

    Unlike all of you, I don't "know" exactly what it is. So, I guess I can just watch all of you fight it out.

  51. You could eat two very tiny meals a day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not joking, it's how I survived college hahahaha!

    1. Re:You could eat two very tiny meals a day by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      The Romans ate once a day. People eat too much, plus processed food is soaked in sugar.

  52. Messed up food by gatkinso · · Score: 1

    Maybe Americans would slim down if (in addition to getting up off of our asses) we ate actual food and not some godawful chemistry experiment that tastes good.

    --
    I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
  53. GMOs and obesity; the pleasure trap & capitali by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    http://www.prevention.com/food/healthy-eating-tips/gmo-foods-linked-weight-gain
    "As part of a long-term project studying the health effects of GM foods -- crops that have had their DNA modified to resist pesticides and drought -- researchers from Norway fed food containing GM corn to one group of rats and food containing non-GM corn to another group. Over the course of 90 days, the rats on the GM-corn diet grew fatter and ate more food than the rats on the non-GM diet. The researchers also noticed that rats got fatter when they ate fish that had been raised on GM corn."

    What's the likelihood that Purina rat chow and Purina monkey chow (yes they exist) are made with cheaper GMOs? The article suggests also that food grown these days may be less nutritious in terms of micronutrients than in the past (due to depleted soils and different high-yield varieties of crops), and so creatures need to ingest more calories to get the same amount of needed micronutrients.

    Another factor is "Supernormal Stimuli" of carefully crafted food to appeal in the strongest way to human desires like the American-style fast food you mention:
    "Supernormal Stimuli: How Primal Urges Overran Their Evolutionary Purpose"
    http://www.amazon.com/Supernormal-Stimuli-Overran-Evolutionary-Purpose/dp/039306848X

    See also, "How to escape The Pleasure Trap!":
    http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/article16.aspx

    But I agree with the article's author when David Berreby writes: "The trap is deeper than that, however. The 'unifying logic of capitalism', [Jonathan C K ] Wells continues, requires that food companies seek immediate profit and long-term success, and their optimal strategy for that involves encouraging people to choose foods that are most profitable to produce and sell -- 'both at the behavioural level, through advertising, price manipulations and restriction of choice, and at the physiological level through the enhancement of addictive properties of foods' (by which he means those sugars and fats that make 'metabolic disturber' foods so habit-forming). In short, Wells told me via email, 'We need to understand that we have not yet grasped how to address this situation, but we are increasingly understanding that attributing obesity to personal responsibility is very simplistic.' Rather than harping on personal responsibility so much, Wells believes, we should be looking at the global economic system, seeking to reform it so that it promotes access to nutritious food for everyone. That is, admittedly, a tall order. But the argument is worth considering, if only as a bracing critique of our individual-responsibility ideology of fatness."

    On stress and obesity, evolutionarily, eating more when stressed makes a lot of sense, because historically stress probably means you are uncertain about where your next meal is going to come from, so best to stock up now if you can, which means it is more likely you will survive to have and raise children later on.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  54. Obese 6-year olds are too lazy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The parent appears not to know that we have a huge epidemic of obese 6-year olds. By his theory, I guess they're not doing enough jogging.

    The woeful moderation to +5 Insightful suggests that the statistics of infant obesity aren't well known here.

    1. Re:Obese 6-year olds are too lazy? by jomama717 · · Score: 1

      Hell yes obese 6-year olds are lazy! Are you serious? How many hours a day did you spend on your ass playing angry birds or watching cartoons on an ipad when you were 6 years old? 6-year olds don't need to go jogging, they just need to do normal physical 6-year old stuff. Their parents not letting them drink fruit juice and eat tasty cakes all the time wouldn't hurt either.

      FFS, the cognitive dissonance surrounding the "obesity epidemic" is infuriating. Get off your asses!! YOU are to blame!!!

      --
      while [ 1 ]; do echo -n -e "\xe2\x95\xb$((($RANDOM&1)+1))"; done
  55. Re: Failure to even Attempt to process the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Compelling rationalization for not eating less. Now, as an experiment to bolster your viewpoint go and try it, and see what happens, fatty.

  56. Confirmation bias by SirGarlon · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but I've lived around too many fat people. They eat. They eat a lot.

    So you find your anecdotes more convincing than a broad survey of years of peer-reviewed research. (The number of studies cited in TFA makes this a lot more than the author's "pet topic", as you say.) I hope you'll understand when I lean toward the scientists' side.

    It seems to me that if obesity is primarily influenced by environmental factors rather than behavioral ones, thin people are no longer entitled to feel superior. That's obviously intolerable to some, so they reject the science.

    --
    [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
  57. Stupid headline by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    What's Causing the Rise In Obesity? Everything.

    No, it's caused by "a few things" (there's an inexhaustive list of nine in one of the articles). It's not caused by earthquakes, or feathers, or sunspots, or Mars coming into alignment with Uranus. The author has severely underestimated the number of things that exist.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  58. Enough excuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    STFU, eat less, do some exercise daily.

  59. Eat yourself thin or die trying ! by gx5000 · · Score: 1

    Processed Foods, lack of exercise and a general abandonement of traditional values (no, not religious). Six months spent on a farm eating foods unaltered by profit goals and working from dawn will do wonders for your figure.

    --
    End of Line.
    1. Re:Eat yourself thin or die trying ! by 1s44c · · Score: 1

      And that's it, processed foods contain insane levels of sugar.

      Plus desk jobs encourage people to sit still and vegetate.

      People need to work a little exercise into their routine. Walk the stairs, walk to the shops and back, do a bit of exercise a few times a week.

  60. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  61. Re:Everything makes you fatter - just try a little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    .. less of everything.

    OK. I'm starting with less exercising. ;-)

  62. BPA? by Marrow · · Score: 1

    Didn't they just discover that some of the plastics we use mimic the some hormones? Isnt it possible its really "in the water" this time?

  63. What is making us fat? well ... DUH by LoRdTAW · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Here is what is making people fat: (tl/dr: Sugar, cheap & plentiful fatty foods, sedentary lifestyle, stress and distracting entertainment)

    Sugar - Everything is pumped so full of sugar its almost unbearable. Soda, juices candies are big sources of sugar. And that was a result of cheaper high fructose corn syrup which is added to make the food item more appealing. Just think of how much sugar in in the 2 to 4 cups of coffee you drink per day when you order it with some sweetener or flavor. You can't even buy a supposedly healthy fruit juice without it being loaded with as much sugar as a soda. I drink fresh brewed iced tea, either green tea with a bit of honey added or regular black tea both with fresh lemon. Very refreshing, a thirst quencher and good for you. I cut out soda a few years back though I do enjoy a Coke every now and then as a treat.

    Low quality food - Animal fats and carbs. Two things that our body can use for nutrition but eat in too large of quantities. Our brains are also wired to enjoy savory foods through evolution to ensure we ingest enough protein. But we are overexposed to such foods and are over indulging in them as as a result. Food is cheap and plentiful in developed nations and bad food is the cheapest food. We have restaurants serving up boatloads of fatty foods loaded with carbs. Fast food is notorious for this because most of them are burger joints serving up fatty meat on a carb bun and carb fries soaked in more fat. And to top it off its cheap and fast. when you're stressed out, running around all day, have a deadline, boss harping on you, it can become overwhelming and eating can help relieve stress. So you run to McBurgerdys and pick up a triple bypass bacon cheese burger with a side of fat fries and wash it down with a tub of sugar water. Its too easy to get a hold of this junk. I am guilty of this along with many many others. I try to cook but too often am I distracted by stress to deal with it.

    Sedentary lifestyle - We have many jobs where a worker sits in a chair all day. Once they return home they are burnt out by stress (see below) and plop down on a couch in front of the TV. The only time they may have free time is on weekends providing they aren't burnt out from family or partying. Life is way too fast paced and full of stress and problems.

    Stress - Work, trying to make ends meet family etc all contribute to mental stress which slows people down. You escape by watching TV, playing Video games, surfing the web or some other hobby. Some hobbies involve exercise but for a majority, it doesn't. rush rush rush! go go go! now now now! This is mentality killing us. Then throw in the shitty economy where the cost of living is outpacing many peoples income.

    Entertainment - We are at a point where entertainment is on demand and interactive. People get lost for hours watching TV, playing video games or surfing the web. Its too easy to plop in front of the TV or computer and be immersed in an alternate world where we can escape the daily stress of our lives. The real world sucks but video games offer an alternate world where we play a hero or are at the top of the gaming food chain. BOOM headshot! Take that bitch! Feels good doesn't it? Better than typing up TPS reports, meeting deadlines, hunting down bugs etc. Fuck work. That is why you have people who lose jobs, spouses and even their lives. The virtual world is better than the real world. And TV is the same thing, we follow an immersive story or laugh at jokes and gags which take us away from our stressful lives. Before Radio, TV and video games many people drowned their stress in alcohol at local pubs. People are always looking to escape.

    1. Re:What is making us fat? well ... DUH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of all those things stress is the worst and will be blamed last.

      US workers get little vacation, are expected to work 40 hours a week, get few holidays, get little time off for new babies, get paid little overall, and have the stupid "rugged individualism" mindset that precludes them from asking for help or going to the doctor frequently enough.

      In return the US gets a handful of mega-wealthy citizens and enormous corporations.

      Stress will never be blamed though. That would require giving people proper care, vacation, and so on. Instead it is much more lucrative to blame food, create a diet industry, create an exercise industry, bloat the medical industry with whole new diseases, and so on.

      If you want to be skinny, get a job in a location that makes you want to be outside and make sure your job isn't too stressful. I did that last year and lost 30 pounds.

    2. Re:What is making us fat? well ... DUH by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      Stress is the main theme of my post. Mostly because it reflects my life and many of my friends lives. I put on about 20 pounds over the past five years working an engineering job and I am getting weary. Deadlines, an asshole of a boss, coworkers with nepotism privileges and asshole coworkers make for an overall negative working environment. I can deal with the coworkers but when you sum it all up the stress it creates is more harmful than its worth. Pay is good but at the end of the day when you don't do much for yourself, what good is money? I even broke up with my last girlfriend because of this gig. Its time to quit and I am doing just that.

      My story is echoed over and over again in this country (USA) and probably just about every other developed nation.

  64. Processed foods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The rise in obesity is primarily due to the rise in processed foods. Fat people may indeed eat a lot, but much more important is what they eat. They eat processed, artificial foods. A person who eats the same amount, but only all-natural whole foods, will not be nearly as fat, nor as unhealthy. A person who eats the same amount, only all-natural whole foods, plus a higher ratio of plant-based foods to animal-based foods, will be yet even thinner, and yet even healthier.

    Or we can simply look to evolution. Human beings didn't evolve on processed, artificial foods, consuming meat and dairy at every single meal. We evolved on an all-natural, whole food, primarily plant-based diet supplemented with occasional meat.

  65. Wonderful Study by sargon666777 · · Score: 1

    I am so happy for the results of this.. now (if were lucky) we can get Mrs Obama to go complain at the lab animals about being fat instead of us.

    --
    Am I lying when I tell you that im telling the truth? Or am I telling the truth when I say that Im lying?
  66. I'm not getting fatter by 1s44c · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm losing fat actually. Get some exercise and cut out the high fructose corn syrup.

    Screw going to a gym, just buy this book:
    http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Your-Own-Gym/dp/0345528581

  67. 4-5 times per week by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Most people don't eat out more than once a week, yet they're overweight.

    Citation needed. The data I see indicates most americans eat out 4-5 times per week.

    Some people don't EVER eat at McDonalds or similar fast-food places, and yet they're fat, too.

    A lot of people don't admit they eat at McDonalds and yet in 2010 the industry generated $184 Billion in sales. I think a lot of people who claim they don't eat at McDonalds are lying.

    1. Re:4-5 times per week by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Cite:
      http://my.news.yahoo.com/half-americans-eat-fast-food-every-week-080408947.html

      And your opinion that EVERYONE eats at McDonalds all the time is completely baseless. Many people eat there, but a big chunk of the population almost never do.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    2. Re:4-5 times per week by geekoid · · Score: 1

      49% of Americans over 14 go to McDonalds.

      We are talking about a company that feed 1% of the world, every day.
      Americans consume 1 billion pounds of beef a year, just from McDonalds.

      So, a huge chunk of Americans eat their.

      http://www.businessinsider.com/facts-about-mcdonalds-blow-your-mind-2011-11?op=1

      A bonus funny rap at the end.

      "And your opinion that EVERYONE eats at McDonalds all the time is completely baseless. "
      where did he say that?

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:4-5 times per week by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      A lot of people don't admit they eat at McDonalds and yet in 2010 the industry generated $184 Billion in sales. I think a lot of people who claim they don't eat at McDonalds are lying.

      Maybe it's more of the definition. They 'consume' at McDonalds. To 'eat' implies the consumption of 'food.'

  68. Food by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Food is what drives an increase in obesity.
    Specifically the food industry increases portion sizes so you buy more, they make more money, you get bigger, have health problems, etc. As you get bigger you also require more food equaling more profit, a vicious cycle.

  69. Methanobrevibacter smithii. by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    Proot Proot.

    Damn, I seem to have put on a few pounds.

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  70. Re: so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's an electrical code that prescribes what sorts of tape can be applied to wire. Sometimes one sees really bad kinds of tape on wires, for example masking tape, which is flammable. But it's not a common or widespread problem.

  71. Economic Stress by seven+of+five · · Score: 1

    I think the collapse of the middle class has a lot to do with obesity. Where do we get your rewards? Sex, food, and the belief that your life is progressing. With incomes stagnant for decades, and ever-increasing pressures to produce more or GTFO, and then seeing the economy implode as it hasn't in generations, people are turning to food. What kind of food? The cheap, gratifying kind.

    1. Re:Economic Stress by Organic+Brain+Damage · · Score: 1

      Try drugs like oxycontin, pot, booze, crack or meth or opium to dull the existential pain. Instead of food. It'll have you in a size 2 in no time.

    2. Re:Economic Stress by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      But that's illegal! Food is legal everywhere* (* may not apply in New York City)

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  72. European vs American women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  73. predator loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real explanation is the loss of predators. In the days of sabertooth tigers, we were a lot thinner and ran much faster. The big cats, along with sloth bears, dire wolves, and other large carnivores, solved our obesity problems.

  74. New Ice Age is starting or Ancient Alien Theorist by Nyder · · Score: 1

    Global Warming? Idiots. This is the start of the Ice Age. Mother Nature is fattening us up for the big freeze.

    Wait, I got another idea. Ancient Alien Theorist say that Aliens are fattening us up for dinner. Their dinner.

    But seriously, I know why I am fat. I eat a lot of junk food and get very little exercise.

    --
    Be seeing you...
  75. Evolution by Beorytis · · Score: 1

    Maybe the change is just good old evolution. Though it seems adverse to the survival of individuals, maybe it's benefiting the survival of these affected species.

  76. Or could it be by kilodelta · · Score: 1

    That corn is so highly subsidized in the U.S. that it's in virtually everything we all eat. Or maybe it's because those same policies favor cheap, nutrient deficient foods and that INCLUDES animal feed.

  77. W = mg by Earth+Dweller · · Score: 2

    Hold everything! What if the "g" is increasing rather than the "m" ?

    --
    For everything I ever type, please assume "(sp?)"
  78. more obesity research = more obese lab animals by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1

    "as the American people were getting fatter, so were America's laboratory macaques, chimpanzees, vervet monkeys and mice"

    A simple hypothesis occurs to me: as the American people were getting fatter, American researchers turned more of their time and resources into investigating obesity. They started doing more animal research (of questionable ethics and usefulness, but that's another rant) into obesity, and so there were more obese lab animals.

    --
    Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
    You cannot wash away blood with blood
  79. DNR; TL - we know this .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been 50+lbs OVER obese for much of the last 15 yrs.
    I was an extremely fit athlete into my late 20s, even as I transitioned to an "office worker" - had a few intramural accidents and stopped being active.

    The last 5 yrs, I've lost and gained the same 60 lbs over and over again.

    I know how to lose weight. Workout and move a little more, eat many fewer calories, avoid packaged foods and dining out. Fresh veggies should be most of the food content - 50%+. 1 or 2 fruits and the rest with nuts and proteins.

    That's really all there is.

    For me, rice, fries, candy, chips, pizza are my trigger foods. Lots of trouble controlling portions with those. I've switched to brown rice - don't get as high off the carbs as with white rice. For the others, it is best to be away from home when having those. I avoid grocery shopping when hungry - that helps.

    I know what needs to happen, but still can't make myself do it.

    1. Re:DNR; TL - we know this .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't get as high off the carbs

      But it's all calories!!1!eleventyone</alltheotherslashdotterswhothinkitsallaboutcalories>

      There's a reason its called carbing up and you do it just before a race. Not a single person here is going to say "oh he's not fat he's just carbing up for next year's marathon". The body doesn't work that way. The body doesn't burn "calories" it burns ATP. If it burned "calories" you could drink a cup of unleaded and gain half a pound of fat.

  80. Well, processed food... think about it. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    What humans and other animals have in common is the part of the brain that tells us that we should make sure that there's enough fuel for our bodies for the times when there's little fuel around that we could consume. I.e. we're hard wired to get obese if we have the chance to. Animals, if offered the chance, will go for it without a doubt, and the animal in us does the same. We just might feel remorse because we consider obesity ugly, but that part of the brain is by some margin weaker than the "I wanna survive" part.

    Now, our body also has mechanisms that force us to stop eating when we're full. Another thing that's by no means a higher function of our superior human brain. By the time you're full, your body will tell you to stop eating. That message arrives with quite some delay, though. The reason for this is the way "normal" food works compared to processed food.

    Go ahead and eat something unprocessed, and then try something processed, and you'll notice that eating something the way it grew is a lot more "work" and goes a lot slower. When you eat chicken wings or ribs, you will gobble down less meat per minute than you can do when eating chicken nuggets or hamburgers. You can't simply take mouth sized bites from a chicken wing, you nibble the meat off the bone instead of wolfing it down. Fruits and vegetables are usually easier, but even here you have to take care of seeds and shells, aside of the nutritional value vs. fiber content is usually a lot different and "better" from the body weight point of view. Fiber content is a big issue with processed food altogether, actually.

    So my finger points to processed food. Animals (and, deep down inside, that's what we are) eat as fast as the food provided allows. The faster you can eat, the more you can eat before you're full. The more processed your food is, the more you can eat in the same amount of time.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  81. Obesity In American Children Leveling Off by assertation · · Score: 1

    The title to this thread is slightly dated. There have been articles in the news recently that the obesity rate among American children is no longer rising, but is leveling off.

    Google News Search On Obesity Rates

  82. Ice Age Coming by MrL0G1C · · Score: 1

    Obvious conclusion, our bodies know that we've f**ked the planet, the atlantic conveyor belt is about to stop and an ice age is about to hit us any year now.

    Survival of the fattest.

    --
    Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
  83. Europe versus USA by cazzazullu · · Score: 1

    I'm a European living in the USA for half a year now. In Europe, I cook every day, usually with nothing but fresh vegetables, sometimes canned veggies, some herbs, and high-quality meat (no antibiotics or hormones are allowed in Europe). We bake our own bread, use olive oils and butter, drink plenty of wine, and generally feel healthy.

    Here in the USA, some people don't even have a kitchen. The bread tastes horrible, spongy consistency and very sweet. People eat breakfasts that look more like dinner to me. Eating out 3 times a day seems the habit, not the exception. Go into a bar and everyone is chugging pint after pint of beer, often accompanied by liquor. My wife didn't want anything alcoholic, and she got a very confused look from the bartender, "so, a coke then?". People are walking around with large recipients of ultrasweet soda's or stuff that has to pass for coffee but tastes more like melted ice cream. The entire country smells like bacon. In Europe, people try to avoid eating fries more than once a week, here it is considered a vegetable, and I see people eating them twice a day.

    I gained 30 pounds in 6 months here, and I know why. I also know that once I am back in Europe I will lose all of it without any effort or ever going hungry. In fact, my body craves all the veggies I am currently not eating, and even thinking about a nice veggie soup or ratatouille, and then looking down to a supermcfatburger with extra everything makes me want to trow up.

    --
    int main(void) {while(1) fork(); return 0;}
    1. Re:Europe versus USA by Lanforod · · Score: 1

      Every bar I've been in in Europe has 'everyone chugging pint after pint of beer'... and typically in higher quantities than the US. It's cheaper, and pints are bigger.

    2. Re:Europe versus USA by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      Your story doesn't pass the sniff test. There is no reason you could not eat the same way in the US that you do in Europe and there is no reason that you can not eat in Europe the same way that you do in the US.

      Also, the claim that a bartender was confused that your wife didn't want alcohol is also ridiculous. If it was 1970, I would believe you, but the crack down on drunk driving that has been happening for the last 30 years has made 'Designated Drivers' down right common. No bartender is confused by someone declining alcohol.

  84. Duh by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    Eating. We're eating too much relative to our energy needs. We eat because we're bored. We eat because we're stressed. We eat to fit in with social situations. Family gatherings revolve around eating.

    Our entire culture is basically centered on eating.

  85. Its birth control pills. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its all the women on birth control pills. The hormones from these pills are expelled in the women's urine. This enters the water supply; our water processing doesn't remove this.

  86. It could be that they animal kingdom knows... by trparky · · Score: 1

    It could be that they animal kingdom knows something we don't. Maybe this planet of ours is going to be facing an environmental change soon and that the animals of this planet are getting ready for it in the only way they know how, pack on the pounds. Those who have stored fat will survive longer than those without.

  87. It is not sugar. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are man-made chemicals, that are everywhere, that when you (or other animals) are exposed to them, they will get fat. Even if you do not increase calorie intake, you will get fat.

    For example, that HFCS that came in that nice squeeze bottle - it is the bottle that is making you fat.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesogen

    Obesogens are foreign chemical compounds that disrupt normal development and balance of lipid metabolism, which in some cases, can lead to obesity.[...]Obesogens have been detected in the body both as a result of intentional administration of obesogenic chemicals in the form of pharmaceutical drugs such as diethylstilbestrol, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, and thiazolidinedione and as a result of unintentional exposure to environmental obesogens such as tributyltin, bisphenol A, diethylhexylphthalate, and perfluorooctanoate.[5][6] Emerging evidence from laboratories around the world suggests that other chemicals will be confirmed as falling under this proposed classification in the near future, and that there may be some serious biological effects due to exposure to these chemicals that still remain undiscovered.[5][6] Till now, 20 chemicals have been found responsible for making one fat

    So where do you find these chemicals? Plastics. Plastics, not sugar, is making you fat.

    The kicker is these chemicals produce the effect at very low levels because they are used as signaling mechanism (hormones). At high levels, they do not cause these problems! At high levels, the body notices that something is fucked up and ignores the signal (ie. the chemical)

    And things like Biphenol A, all that crap that says "BPA free"? Well, they just have Biphenol S there now instead, which is probably even worse.

    So, if you want no obesogens, stick with glass or stainless steel containers. No plastics. No clingwrap. Even then, you are surrounded as obesogens are in the food chain and in our daily lives.

    http://dreamfilm.ca/just-what-are-obesogens/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2713042/

  88. Increased weight |= increased obesity by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I spotted a logical fallacy immediately. Just because one set of people or animals weigh more than another set of people or animals does not mean that the first set is obese. Under the standards used to measure human obesity, I am obese. Yet my doctor tells me I should not lose any more weight since my body fat percentage is on the low side of 10% (which every reference I can find says is below ideal for my age).
    I will say that everything I have read supports the idea that BMI (what is used for determining whether humans are overweight or not) is useful for determining whether or not a group of humans weighs more than they should (although it is clearly not as useful when applied to individuals). However, without some sort of study to determine if the increased weight in pets and laboratory animals represents those animals being fatter and/or unhealthier than previously requires significant additional information.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    1. Re:Increased weight |= increased obesity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BMI is meant to judge people who live a half-sedentary lifestyle; a lot of people seem to forget that and then take Michael Jordan or some other bunch-o'-muscles as an example of why BMI doesn't mean anything since they're "obese".

      Speaking of Michael Jordan, someone thought that BMI was being unfair to people taller or shorter than the average and published a new formula. It was 1,3 * weight / height ^ 2,5; that is, instead of squaring the height, it raises it to the 2,5th power, and then adjusts the scale to the regular BMI so the "20-25 = normal" scale still fits. It is supposed to better model the volume of the human body. A regular 180-cm loses person about 1 point of BMI with the new formula, while a 160-cm one gains half a point.

  89. Obesity reversed by lorcaserin, even in lab rats by retiarius · · Score: 1

    Yes, by a serotonergic selective 5-HT(2C) receptor agonist
    which suppresses the appetite, at least for rats and humans, available now
    at a pharmacy near you. [And stock available at a brokerage near you.]
    Dunno the right dose for pets named Tubby, though ...

  90. Micronutrients gone AWOL in modern agriculture? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd say high efficiency methods of food production in regards to agriculture may have reduced uptake of micronutrients. Micronutrients are a bit odd as too much of those substances are considered toxic or as potential carcinogens, but too little and it really screws with metabolic processes. Government probably regulates them out of the food supply or completely neglects their importance when it comes to animal (mammalian?) biology.

    Considering the possibility that mitochondria don't have the trace chemicals needed to process enough ATP or whatever, I'd suspect sugars that can't readily be used get stored in the body instead. So increased obesity (and possibly type II diabetes?) may be a side effect of a peculiar form of malnutrition.

    This would also explain why it's happening in lab animals and pets that rely on human produced food, and not just humans.

    Of course that's just a half-educated guess by some AC on the internet, so such a hypothesis is about as good as any other. Yet I'd say it's still worth researching if you're a biologist or a medical field related nutritionist.

  91. the only logically conclusion is gravity by tatman · · Score: 1

    the only logically conclusion is gravity is increasing :D

    --
    I've always said English was my second language. Had Romeo and Juliet been written in C, I might have understood it.
  92. tremendous wealth of modern society by peter303 · · Score: 1

    More food calories are available for less labor to much of humanity than ever before. This is a result of of modern capitalistic system with its emphasis on technological development. Obesity is an unintended negative consequence. For 99% of human history, people lived in societies where obtaining food was the major daily chore And food shortages were a periodic occurrence.

    It is part of the human nature and capitalism system to think we are not really really wealthy and could get more. But realtive to previous eras we are extremely wealthy. The top 80% in the USA live btter than aristicrats 500 years ago.

    Another truism is that in absolute numbers there have never been as many underfed people as there are now. But again that is relative to the huge population growth in recent centuries. If the the world's agricultural wealth could be more evenly distributed around the world, probably everyone would have more than enough calories and the opportunity beome fat. But society hasnt figured how to do this yet on a world-wide scale despite trying all kinds of political and economic systems.

    1. Re:tremendous wealth of modern society by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So now its Capitalism's fault? Are you an idiot or just a fattie? This site is such crap, to many people like this idiot on here. Greese Greese Pigs.

      Must be tons of fat asses on here, eat less and move more fats.

  93. if you think fat makes you fat, you're wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suggest anyone with a scientific mind to pick up a copy of "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes. Absolutely dismantles the science behind the idea that saturated fats are bad for the human body. If you read this comment and you think I'm wrong without reading this book first, you're intentionally maintaining your own ignorance.

    1. Re:if you think fat makes you fat, you're wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True.

      The weird part is that fat aversion is now so deeply ingrained that people, (especially young women) even when informed and in agreement, still get jittery around bacon.

      The programming is hard to undo.

  94. Re:Obesity reversed by lorcaserin, even in lab rat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or we could just stop eating sugars, grains, starches and other carbs and go back to a high saturated fat diet in order to obtain optimal health and body mass without the need for expensive drugs and the associated health consequences.

  95. Mexico is the most obese country, not the U.S. by used2win32 · · Score: 1

    "We all know — because we are being constantly reminded — that we are getting fat. Americans are at the forefront of the trend, but it is a transnational one."

    Mexico is now the fattest country:
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/mexico_weighs_in_first_place_as_H9SVnsADtIaVUjnLgwfTsL
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/09/mexico-obesity_n_3567772.html
    http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/11/mexico-overtakes-america-as-worlds-fattest-country-3879512/

    --
    Procrastination; I'll think of a sig tomorrow.
  96. Poor impulse control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's be honest; strip it all away and the key factor is lack of self control.

    People know that things are bad for them; they just don't give a crap.

    Its a very simple formula, eat whole natural foods, exercise an hour six days a week. Barring a medical condition you WILL lose weight.

    1. Re:Poor impulse control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Everything else is just BS excuses.

  97. Not so fast by SeattleGameboy · · Score: 1

    Most of these studies are based on BMI which is not very reliable at all. It could be that people getting HEALTHIER are contributing to rise in BMI. If you work out regularly and have decent muscle mass, you will be considered "overweight" via BMI (even with 10% body fat). They really need to better define what overweight and obese is before pumping out more studies like this.

    1. Re:Not so fast by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Not this bullshit
      BMI applies to 95% of people. If you are some it doesn't apply to then you are healthy enough it doesn't matter.

      It's very reliable for most people.

      Educate yourself and learn to think.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:Not so fast by SeattleGameboy · · Score: 1

      Citation?

    3. Re:Not so fast by SeattleGameboy · · Score: 1
  98. Food? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This may just be too obvious, but basically food, and the fact that it is readily available at a low cost is what is making people fat. For 99.9% of human history, availability of adequate caloric intake was a major problem. Eating too much and getting fat when food was available was an essential survival strategy, because winter was inevitably coming. The odds of living long enough to develop type II diabetes or heart disease was virtually zero. Food that is "bad" for us is also very high in those hard to find calories, that's why they taste good.

    Now, our ability to produce and distribute food cheaply is unprecedented in human history. Food is cheap and easy to get in most countries. You don't have to chase buffalo through the plains or climb trees to get eggs. Even in the third world it's much easier than the paleolithic man hunting for a little meat or berries.

    We are hard wired to get fat (at least some). We have to use the rational part of our brain to override our instinct to shove readily available food in our face.

  99. Did you even try to read the article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Calorie restriction only works if you a) reduce your intake to the level you burn off now; and b) reduce it even further to compensate for the fact that your body isn't going to let go of the stored fat so easily and will lower the metabolic rate and gets rather more efficient at extracting energy from the food you eat.

    So: you need 2000 calories and want to lose weight. You think a diet where you eat 1700 calories is 300 calories a day weight loss, right? Well, no, it really doesn't work like that. Your body is more complicated than that. You might even gain MORE weight by eating LESS, as your lower caloric intake might get overcompensated by your body resulting in an ever greater excess of necessary calories. Yay, eat less, get fatter.

    What does help lose weight is NOT starving you body and eating enough calories that your body is functioning normally, but getting those calories from other sources. Less carbs and more fat (while staying at the same calorie count) does work.

    TL;DR: Your body is not a simple reaction vessel in a chemistry lab. It's more complicated.

    Even more TL;DR: Eat less carbs. Eat enough calories. You will lose weight.
     

    1. Re:Did you even try to read the article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So: you need 2000 calories and want to lose weight. You think a diet where you eat 1700 calories is 300 calories a day weight loss, right? Well, no, it really doesn't work like that. Your body is more complicated than that. You might even gain MORE weight by eating LESS, as your lower caloric intake might get overcompensated by your body resulting in an ever greater excess of necessary calories. Yay, eat less, get fatter.

      If you eat less calories than you use, you *will* lose weight. What you are pointing out is that, if you lower your calorie intake, your body goes into 'starvation mode', and starts pulling calories from the food you eat at a much higher percentage.

      A crude example:
      You eat 3000 calories. Your body very inefficiently pulls 66% of those (2000) out of the food, you poop out the remaining 1000. Of the 2000 your body takes, you use 1500, and you store (as fat) 500.
      You eat 2500 calories. Your body say 'WTF? Food must be scarce! I better be more efficient!", and pulls out 88% of them (2200 calories), pooping 300. Of the 2200 your body gets, you burn 1500, and store 700!

      HOWEVER, I honestly don't know if the effect is that extreme. It's probably be more like Eat: 2000, body takes 75%, (1500), instead of 66% of 3000 (2000).

        In any case, if you eat less than you use (whatever that number is, or whatever it changes to), you will lose weight.

    2. Re:Did you even try to read the article? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parent poster here. You are correct. If you eat less than you use, you will lose weight. What you understand, but other posters seem to have a hard time wrapping their minds around, is that the amount you use depends on the amount you take in.

      Take in less, you use less. I don't know how great the effect is. Your example a good indication, but we can't be sure if it's numerically correct, and it is sure to differ from person to person.

      But... Anecdote time: I've been dieting for a long time, even tried near fasting for a prolonged period. Didn't work. I've tried exercising vigorously. Didn't work. Then I tried cutting back on cards (near zero carbs, actually) but eating around 2300 calories a day in protein and fat. Due to an injury I couldn't exercise at that time. Still, I lost 9 pounds the first week. Another 9 pounds the next week. I lost a hundred pounds in seven months. And get this: I was never hungry, I never craved for anything. I've never felt better than during that diet.

      Now I'm eating carbs again, but not too much. Weight stays off. End of anecdote.

  100. cheap food by geekoid · · Score: 1

    with 24 hours availability and sugars,fat and salts added to everything.

    that said, burn more the you eat, and you lose weight.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  101. Don't eat the ones on the northwest continent by Dareth · · Score: 1

    The alien surgeon general recommends not eating pasty white humans from the northwest continent. You can eat all the yellow ones you like from the eastern continent as they are much healthier for you. Though you may find yourself hungry again in just a few parsecs.

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  102. Reuse trendy explanation for every recent mystery by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Delicious Dark Matter

  103. alisha01 by alisha01 · · Score: 0

    Leah. I agree that Ellen`s article is cool, yesterday I picked up a top of the range Toyota from having earned $4140 this-last/month and would you believe, 10/k lass-month. it's by-far the nicest-work Ive ever done. I started this 3 months ago and straight away began to earn over $81.. per/hr. I use the details on this web-site,, http://www.wep6.com/ Go to website and click Home tab for more details.

  104. Re: so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wire taps are not illegal.

  105. People lie on surveys all the time by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Your citation is a survey, not a study. People are demonstrably HUGE liars about what it is they eat. The only thing a survey like that proves is what people say they eat, not what they actually do eat. We can however prove what people eat by looking at financial data.

    And your opinion that EVERYONE eats at McDonalds all the time is completely baseless.

    I never claimed everyone eats there all the time. But I have NO doubt whatsoever that most of the population eats fast food with considerable regularity. McDonalds (and the rest of the fast food industry) generated sales of about $600 per person in the US in 2010. That is about 100 meals per person per year which works out to about 10-15% of all meals consumed. That means on average you would expect an american chosen at random to eat at a fast food joint 2-3 times per week. On average that HAS to be true as we have the sales numbers to prove it. Now granted there are many people who don't eat fast food that often but any pretense that the majority of the population does not eat fast food on a regular basis is simply not supported by the available facts. The financial numbers don't lie about how often we eat out. People however do lie all the time to surveys regarding what they think they eat.

    I'm not even counting traditional restaurants which account for a large percentage of meals consumed as well - typically 1-2 meals per week. Between that and fast food you easily get a result of people eating out 4-5X per week on average. Don't forget to count Starbucks/Dunkin Doughnuts coffee. That counts too.

    1. Re:People lie on surveys all the time by evilviper · · Score: 1

      That is about 100 meals per person per year which works out to about 10-15% of all meals consumed.

      If 10% of the food you consume is causing you to retain 50% more body fat, it would be a HUGE effect easily noticed by scientists.

      And your averaging out of the numbers makes no sense. Some people will be HUGE consumers of fast food, and buying high-priced menu items, while others will NEVER eat there.

      If fast food was the source of the problem, it would be EASY to demonstrate. Instead, fast food has the same effect as all other food, and those staying away from it are NOT immune from the current obesity epidemic.

      Some people eat out for EVERY meal, some eat out for NONE. The majority eat out very little. "Average" is useless.

      There's fleetingly little evidence to indicate fast food is the cause of obesity, and plenty of counter evidence to be had that the cause lies elsewhere.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    2. Re:People lie on surveys all the time by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Just as it's ridiculous to suggest that fast food is the only driver of the obesity epidemic, I also believe that the numbers prove that it is one of the largest contributing factors. However, there's really no substantive difference between fast food and the processed foods located in the center of the supermarket. They're made of a bunch of crap and they've been cooked until they only superficially resemble food. Actual food has things like enzymes in it, and if it includes something like corn syrup it's not being used in place of vegetable oil and the flavor balanced with citric acid.

      Also, you're glossing over the role that eating out in a typical restaurant in America plays, which has been discussed above in this thread. Most restaurants serve portions which are very large when compared to the actual caloric requirements of the average American; I'm not necessarily complaining, because I too prefer to have more food than I will eat than to go hungry at the end of the meal, especially when I'm paying any significant amount of money. The margins on food service have only become slimmer in recent years. Unfortunately, we have a tendency (whether learned or inherited) to clean our plates, so these two drives are somewhat problematic.

      In summary, the argument was not solely about fast food, but it's clear that a large portion of the blame can be laid there.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  106. Mod parent up. by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    One of the few posts addressing TFA; instead of typical rants on fat. Lab animals are usually fed pet food of some sort which is heavily processed stuff.

    Processed food is not the same as natural food; we add and subtract things ignorantly as if it doesn't matter, forgetting that every decade a new fad hits as to what elements are good or bad to add/remove from our diets.

    There are natural herbs without side effects but when the "active" ingredient is extracted and made into a concentrated pill it then affects many people differently. Because something in the natural form was missing from the processed one, but that was arrogantly and ignorantly excluded. Sometimes I wonder just how many science proponents actually understand science.

  107. Weight and food issues. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had an incident that changed my body chemistry earlier in life and I started gaining weight and having mood swings etc. My weight would not stabilize and I am quite big now. I was told I have a hormonal imbalance but there is " no cure"... so that was of no help. And so after 20 years of this here is what I have picked up.
      #1 The professionals don't know jack. They need to get over their egos and simply admit " We don't know". Most are simply guessing, or are prejudice and narrow minded leaving you with poor medical care. The diets make you fatter by messing up your system some more or setting you up with chemical laden prepackaged foods that probably have appetite interrupting chemicals like msg as flavor enhancers.
    #2 diet and exercise will only take you so far if you have a thyroid , heredity or hormone issue. And NO it is not an excuse if and when you ever physically go through it you'll know.
    #3 When I first gained weight it was rapid and still felt "different"... when we moved to a different city the food was different and setting up house took time so we ate fast food or in restaurants since the kitchen wasn't together yet... we learned firsthand the hard way... The excitotoxins are real and not some myth. These chemicals attack your brain and the way it sees and appreciates foods and makes you crave pizza or burgers like a crack addict. the entire family had different side effects but it was all bad, headaches body aches, rapid weight gain, appetite interruption, bloating, and cravings galore. The chemicals are BAD>... much more than you know.
    #4 Much of Weight loss is in the mind NOT the food in and food out junk we have been taught... example excitotoxins.... they know it and are taking advantage of it. It is the hypothalamus, the interruption of the mind signals to the stomach letting you know you are full. Avoiding HFCS, MSG, Aspartame probably GMOS too will help with this. And these chemicals are in most things don't kid yourself. MSG is not Chinese food alone.. I found it under a different name in Almond Milk.
    #5 Food has become practically poison. Eat Organic, no carbs if you can. White food and wheat seem to be really affecting people too.
    #6 Insulin Resistance, there is more to be learned I heavily suspect there is massive fat storage due to this. Not even giving you the chance to burn it off, it just stores and stores. PCOS also goes undiagnosed in many woman..
    #7 Bullying people doe not help. Understanding does. Ultimately everything we were ever told it a load of rubbish and every body is individual and has its own needs. We are not cookie cutter who need 1,200 a day some need more some less. Some people don't move due to their job and live a 600 calorie day. Knowing the truth with set us free. Continuing to believe their guesses and lies will not.

  108. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  109. Not my fault by Gary · · Score: 1

    Oh, thank the FSM, I'm not responsible for my own weight.

    Nom, nom, nom...

  110. Portion control by CCarrot · · Score: 1

    I blame some of it on portion control, at least in the US...

    As a Canadian traveling in the US last week, I was constantly surprised by how much of everything you got on your plate. I certainly never left a table hungry, however I don't think I've ever left so much food behind so consistently, either. I'm of the old-school, "eat what's put in front of you, there are starving children in {third world country of your choice} that are going hungry tonight" philosophy, so I did my level best...but the portions still defeated me.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about getting more for (roughly) the same price...but it could be a major contributor to overall weight gain in the US, if people are actually eating that much on a regular basis without increasing their average activity level to compensate.

    Now, that being said, it doesn't explain the higher-than-average obesity rate north of the 49th, so there certainly have to be other factors involved...but it could be a significant contributing factor.

    --
    "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
  111. Ah, the Personal Responsibility Fairy by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    The author obviously has his pet topic, which is that it's not anyone's fault that anyone is fat. Sorry, but I've lived around too many fat people. They eat. They eat a lot. Honestly the author goes on far too long about "it's not their fault" and doesn't spend too much time discussing "why".

    Because 40 years of ag policies making carbs and starches the cheapest forms of foods have nothing to do with it. It costs more to eat a salad for a meal than it does to eat a Big Mac, and for anyone of limited means, that shit matters.

  112. Silly, just silly. by danknight48 · · Score: 0

    What's Causing the Rise In Obesity? Your inability to control what you put in your mouth?

    Is it really that hard to understand?
    "You are what you eat".

    Next we will be blaming the Ozone layer for the rise of Obesity. Wake up lol

  113. Fat Apologist Bullshit. by Plebis · · Score: 1

    These articles are fat apologist bullshit. I mean, seriously? The rise in sugar consumption *isn't* related to the rise in obesity? This is just fat people trying to use 'science' to make excuses.

    --
    "Dude, pounds are so metric, fuck that." - Noah
  114. PUFA content by xtronics · · Score: 1

    Actually, we know about 2 things - fructose containing sugar and PUFAs. You can read about fructose spiking trygly which blocks leptin many places, but you haven't heard about PUFAs.

    We eat 5x more PUFA today than we did in 1960 - it was bred into plants as it provides frost resistance.

    The problem is it causes inappropriate insulin sensitivity - insulin, if you have been reading much, is the hormone that tells cells to store more fat - but there is a second control loop that operates at the Mitochondria level that is controlled by the FADH2:NADH ratios which are effected by the amount of PUFA in the diet. Feed equal calorie diets - one with lots of PUFA one with a normal amount - the PUFA group gets fat.

    Very hard to avoid the huge load of PUFA in the western diet.

  115. Carbs - sugar and wheat. by Ed+The+Meek · · Score: 1

    Too many carbs are making us fat - yes, it is as simple as that. Exercise is good for you. But don't expect to lose weight too. Cut out the sugar, Cut out the wheat Watch the weight fall, And be the envy of all!

  116. Re:Sugar is subsidised by uslurper · · Score: 1

    Actually sugar would be cheaper than corn syrup if it was no longer subsidised. You can read about the gory details here. Maybe we should stop subsidising the local farmers for our own health?

    --
    oldhack: "Security is a waste of money until shit hits the fan. 5 minutes later, it becomes waste of money again. "
  117. Re:Sugar is subsidised by blueg3 · · Score: 1

    That's true -- or at least, it's close enough that I'll believe you -- but even with the current prices and subsidies, both sugar and corn syrup are cheap. The price difference doesn't really matter for most products.

  118. Laziness! by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

    Eat a balanced diet, Work out and making sure to stay active. It's not hard to stay healthy.

  119. Wild animals as well? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Otherwise à common denominator for all these is that food is contained in plastic, or perhaps, they all get antibiotics now and then?

  120. Aspertame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aspertame is Mono-SATAN....Wake Up !

  121. Processed food are the issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If someone stays away from processed food then "miraculously" their weight starts to get normal and the body inflammation is also getting fixed. Check out the charts here: http://www.good.is/posts/chart-the-united-states-is-no-longer-the-fattest-country

    Countries getting industrialized are getting fatter. It is because of processed foods.

    I follow the Paleo lifestyle and incorporate some of the best foods available today. I stay away from the biggest poison to humanity today: WHEAT and its awful gluten crap. I minimize tremendously the consumption of grains and legumes. Primarily eat vegetables, meats and fruits... That's it. I am healthy as anyone can get. I am 50 and play soccer 9 hours a week and work out 5 times a week for 1 hour each time. Work over 40 hours and participate in mud runs, triathlons and marathons throughout the year.

    1. Re:Processed food are the issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So products made from organically grown wheat (whole) are poison?

  122. Table salt by tepples · · Score: 1

    I guess GP asked for a pathway because if it were just presence of Cl-, table salt could kill us.

    1. Re:Table salt by somersault · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't kill you, just make you a bit sick. I'm pretty sure that will be one of the main reasons that "they" started iodising table salt anyway..

      --
      which is totally what she said
  123. Correlation is not causation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (Sorry for posting anon, am on another computer today, and can't recall my login)

    And as much as I have my own little pet biases, I make an effort to always remember this fact.

    Because it's what good science is based on - making an extraordinary effort to DISPROVE ONE'S OWN ASSUMPTIONS/BIAS.

    Something that is remarkably lacking in almost all pop-science/media article about science.

    And, I daresay, in academia. Sure, it's still taught, but the importance is muted/obfuscated in favor of teaching things which are more expeditious towards finding employment.

    I'm reminded of the racetam class of drugs. Never heard of them ? No wonder. They aren't available in the US, and countries where the FDA has a lot of pull, as the US FDA doesn't recognize drugs that are used to improve cognition in "normal, healthy individuals".

    They are, however, available in many countries as they are an amino acid synthetic that is unusually non-toxic with few side-effects, been around since the 80's, and well researched.

    Early on in the development of the racetams (Anaracetam, Piracetam, Oxyracetam), researchers tested them on squirrels in a section of forest.

    Lab tests on other mammals didn't show any adverse effects, but when the squirrels got fat, the researchers were startled. How could they have missed such an obvious adverse effect, when they'd done everything possible to rule-out this ?

    Well, upon closer examination it was discovered it wasn't the actual drug causing the obesity, per se.

    What was happening was that the drugs worked perfectly. Squirrels don't recall where they hide ALL their gatherings normally. The racetams improved their cognition so well that they remembered more of their hiding places for their stored foods for the winter. They were getting fat because their cognition, their memory and recall, had improved. Not because the drugs had changed their metabolisms.

    How does this relate to this current "news" about so many different lab animals in the industrialized world getting fatter ? I don't know. Nobody really does. What I do know is that the bulk of remarks here are irrelevant and biased, THAT much is obvious.

    Am I surprised that rats in urban areas are fatter than ever ? Not really. Easily accessible foods thrown out that are denser in carbohydrates and other modern additives are hardly going to make rats lean and svelte. Am I surprised that the monkeys and other lab animals have been getting fatter and fatter ? Not really. How do you think those animals are fed ? Just take a look at the modern products sold to labs to feed these animals over the years. Purina "Monkey Chow" for example. Animals kept in cages, where they don't exercise, no real effort o imitate their natural environments. For that matter, look at most people in the US. Sitting in front of their TV's and computers all day, consuming foods that do not even remotely resemble anything in the past, including the "healthy" foodstuffs.

    When you have cultures and societies that are "modern" which rely on advertising and the media, which are based solely on selling people crap they do not need, and convincing them otherwise, this is what you get. People who THINK they're intelligent and making "choices" which are engineered FOR them. And this is accomplished primarily by removing and managing doubt, creativity, curiosity, and skepticism.

    Good luck to us all in the "modern" world; we're going to need it !

  124. The alien virus by romons · · Score: 1

    The alien virus is fattening us up. It is almost time 'to serve man' and other mammals...

    --
    Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company -- Mark Twain
  125. any updates on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    anorexics and bulimics?

  126. You're also responsible for poverty in the world. by NewYork · · Score: 1

    Just think/pray for the poor/hungry people before your dinner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty

  127. The article's too fat! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can I get a low-fat summary? Sweet!

  128. Obesity rise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe we're victims of our own food processing. Growth hormones are being used in all livestock and just as antibiotics can be absorbed why not these hormones?

  129. The solution. by idbeholda · · Score: 1

    Stop overeating, learn to drop the fork. I used to weigh nearly 300lbs. I currently weigh 170 at 5'11". Glandular problems resulting in the levels of obesity that we're seeing is exceedingly rare. It is a factor, but not a statistically significant one. The most crucial factor in obesity is overeating, and a complete lack of self control, period. If you're not physically active, realistically, you only need about 15-1700 calories per day, average. If you happen to engage in a lot of physically demanding sports, 20-2500, tops. As for animal obesity, corporate farms cage their animals, or coop them in environments where regular physical activity is severely hampered, pump them full of hormones, and overfeed them with cheap, quasinutritional filler food. Realistically, if you want to lose weight, east less grains, more fruits and vegetables, and avoid darker meats if possible. Sugary drinks aren't actually that bad, as sugar is never stored in the fat cells, and instead transcribed into the bloodstream (glucose reabsorption/reuptake).

    1. Re: The solution. by idbeholda · · Score: 1

      Incidentally fuck autocorrect. Not even sure why it put "transcribed" in there, or "east" instead of eat.

  130. Food by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Food quality.

  131. Re: so who to blame , wallst or govt or fiat money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd buy into plastics microwaved possibly causing cancer. . . but I think a 3k+ diet of carbs and corn syrup and sedentary lifestyle explains obesity much better than plastics and low levels of background radiation. It's not that tricky to figure, though it may be difficult to fix as a society. Heck, even as an individual having the discipline to get up during the day to walk, eat smaller portions, and get an actual workout in before or after work can be a challenge.

  132. But they don't use less... by N+Monkey · · Score: 1

    table sugar: 50% sucrose, 50% fructose
    HFCS: 45% sucrose, 55% fructose
    It's not really a big deal. Yes, you'll increase your fructose intake 10% if you eat the same quantity as "sugar", but HFCS tends to be considerably sweeter, so you'll probably be using less and at least partially offset the difference.

    Can't remember the name of the documentary I watched but it reported that, despite it being sweeter than standard sugar, the big drinks companies put far more HFCS into their products than they need to.

  133. Reading all posts...and this is why we still have by gsgriffin · · Score: 1

    problem with this. You have so many differing opinions, perspectives, insights, and understandings that we can all agree that our consumption of food is a part of the problem. The other part is that our activity level has greatly decreased as well. If you are running hard all day long in hard labor work, most of this doesn't matter...you'll burn what you eat. When I work hard, my appetite actually decreases...get too tired to eat.

    --
    jsut athnoer menagiensls ltitle psrhae for you to dcoede. Why do we wtsae our tmie dnoig tihs?
  134. Could it be our gut bacteria? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/

    She presents her research on how RoundUp Ready foods (GMO) we eat poison our intestinal bacteria and cause all sorts of auto-immune problems. The pathway to obesity is one of them.