Ah, but my dream box is on Old-Computers.com: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c =834
Think it can take a 10Mb/s Ethernet card, and withstand a/.ing? Sorry that it doesn't run Intel or AMD, and I'm stepping out of the religious wars (it's a Motorola, you may have heard of some of their processors used in Apple computers).
BTW, the first system by Apple that WASN'T a 32-bit CPU on a 16 or 24-bit bus was in the Mac II family. Don't believe me? The 68000 is a 32-bit CPU on a 16-bit bus. Apple never used it, but the 68008 was a 32-bit CPU on an 8-bit bus (!) The Sinclair QL (Linus's second computer, if you didn't read his book) ran it.
Re:The "Home Computer Museum"...
on
First Computers
·
· Score: 1
I got one at a yard sale a few years ago, and I didn't find the BASIC that bad - it was standard MS BASIC, after all... I had a tape drive and a thermal printer (took cash register tape) for it, plus a 16K RAM upgrade, paddles, and two carts. Both carts didn't work well, especially through the RAM upgrade. I think it got donated to goodwill - well, good riddance! I preferred my old//c (my parents' first, and eventually my first) to that old thing. Of course, my strangest box had to be my old//e clone - the Hacker//e. It was a generic clone//e motherboard (pirated ROM, too), a ][/][+ style case, and ran a 2MHz 6502 (wasn't that stable, though, and many games were unplayable - Apple always used either 1MHz CPUs or those that could be underclocked to 1MHz).
Actually, the PowerPC to the 68040 would be like the Pentium to the 486, except I don't think anyone actually built a Pentium Overdrive system - it was almost cheaper to do it right (although, a Socket 2 or 3 mobo COULD handle 50MHz FSB Pentiums without breaking a sweat).
Re:Most of the candidates? no way!
on
First Computers
·
· Score: 1
RTFLA. One guy said Apple I, one said Apple ][, one or two said ][+, many said//c, many also said//e, and nobody said anything Franklin.
I never did try it out on IE. I hit it with Links (I know, it supports JavaScript, but whenever something tries to pop up, it asks whether that's ok) and saved the source (my shell account didn't offer WGet). I then looked at it - the JavaScript told it to popup a new window whenever the woman with the crap all over her face was moused over (and there's a good chance you'll mouse over it in your rush to slam the back button), and then the popups came. Each one had code to move itself around, and when the image in it was moused over, it would make a new popup. The part about IE? In IE it hides the title bar, and intercepts attempts to hit or -, so that you can't kill the process. It also creates a window (with it's titlebar still intact) that runs a REALLY fucking annoying Flash animation - you can find a benign version here: http://www.originalicons.com/smile.html (the version that Nero-Online uses is an IE-only window-mover in JavaScript - didn't affect Opera when I navigated to the URL)
Yes, a 2.4C will take you to about 3GHz, but an Athlon XP 2500+ can go from 1.83 to 2.2GHz (sometimes 2.4 if you've got a good heatsink) for a LOT less money). Also, it puts less strain on the system bus when it's a multiplier tweak instead of an FSB tweak. Now, for some math:
The 2.4C gains 600MHz, or it runs at 1.25 times it's normal speed, in an overclock to 3GHz. The 2500+ gains 370MHz, or it runs at approximately 1.20 times it's normal speed, in an overclock to 2.2GHz. However, basing this on performance ratings means that the overclock is going from 2500 to 3200, running at 1.28 times it's normal speed on performance ratings. This means one of two things: AMD was getting more aggressive with their performance ratings, or they were following the performance curve of the Pentium 4 line (unlikely). Look at the Athlon 64: it runs at 2.2GHz to get a PR of either 3000 or 3200. Someone needs to bench a P4 3.2 800 HT, a P4EE, an Athlon XP 3200+, and an Athlon 64 3200+ to see how AMD holds up, and how aggressive their PRs are. BTW, test your mobos first, and use the best performing mobo money can buy for each CPU. Obviously, you only need one Socket 478 mobo... BTW, why not add in a Pentium M 1.7 once PowerLeap releases their adaptors in 1Q 2004 (or so they said in their e-mail to me) or Intel releases a Socket 478 Pentium M (hint: 1000 signatures on my petition before the end of January 1, 2004 would help GREATLY).
Swap CPUs and try again - see what happens. Also, look at the date code - if it's 0339 or greater, it's locked (has to do with the release of the Athlon 64 - AMD wants you to buy an A64, not overclock an AXP 2500+... and the A64s are toplocked - only the FX series is not toplocked, and this is because the FX is designed to allow overclocking (Opterons are fully locked)).
However, it's completely impossible to put a G5 on a G4 board. You wouldn't stick an Athlon 64 on your Socket A board, would you? Think of it this way:
The G4 is to the G3 as the Pentium III is to the Pentium II. That's why a Slot 1 P3 worked on a P2 board, and also why a G4 CPU ran on a G3 board.
The G5 is to the G4 as the Athlon 64 is to the Athlon XP. Apples to oranges (no pun intended).
It's Nero Online's Last Measure, aka the worst use of JavaScript and IE's trust of the page ever created (it's still VERY bad on Opera, but IE is MUCH worse)
No, it's if your broadband goes out (power outage, equipment failure, cable damage, etc.), you'll still have a backup. Vonage DOES let you pretend you're on a normal line - you plug the box into your router, you plug your regular landline phones into the box, you go. It sounds pretty interesting...
OK, then can you tell me about it advertising a certain CPU and graphics card? I can't find anything on google, and I want to see some screens of this. (BTW, I WON'T be getting it... I'll just rent Reloaded and Revolutions)
If there weren't a 68008, there might not be Linux. The computer that Linus used before his 386 PC that he first developed Linux on was a Sinclair (forget the model) with a 68008. He wouldn't have devoted almost a whole chapter to it in his book if the 68008 didn't exist.
Also, why aren't early Macs "32-bit clean"? It's because of several factors, including that early 68k CPUs didn't have 32-bit bussez. The other factor was that Macs were still optimized to work with a 16-bit bus for the longest time...
How the fuck? BTW, a NetBurst Celery has half the L2 cache, which doesn't sound as bad at first, but when you realize that the cache is what's keeping NetBurst CPUs from going into the gutter performance wise, the Celeries suck - just look at Anand's benchmarks of sub-$100 Intel and AMD CPUs (with a 1.8A P4 as a baseline) - except for the Duron 1.6, AMD CPUs and the P4 MURDERED Celeries. As for the Duron, it usually held it's own against the Celeries and 1.8 P4.
Tbe 754's doomed, but it's going to be like Intel was with Socket 2 and 3 and the early Pentium Overdrives - AMD will release up to an Athlon 64 3700+ in Socket 754.
In 2011 or 2012? Can I borrow your time machine to see what MS is doing and how far SCO is shoved into the ground at that time?
I do agree that China-only access to MS source could be a major issue. If MS allows at least the government of any country to look at source, this would help fortify government systems, if not prevent civilian computers from getting hit.
Athlon XP 2500+: $83 Abit NF7: $100 (I'd use an A7N8X Deluxe here, but...) A multiplier adjustment to up it to 2800+ speeds (I've heard the 2500+ is an underclocked 2800+): $0 Total: $183
Athlon 64 (mid to high-end consumer CPU): Socket 754 now, possibly Socket 939 in the future. Athlon 64 FX-51 (high-end consumer to mid-end enthusiast/professional CPU): Socket 940 now, next version of the 64 FX will be Socket 939 Opteron 1xx (mid-end professional or server CPU), 2xx (mid to high-end professional or server CPU), 8xx (high-end server CPU): Socket 940
Umm... no. The 68000 was a 16-bit bus, 32-bit core CPU, just like the good ol' 386SX. The 68008 (I think) is an 8-bit bus version. I don't know if there was a 32-bit bus version of the original 68000.
Actually, I thought that the 386SX was designed FOR THE 286 BUS! It wouldn't be hard to make an adaptor yourself, considering that there had to be less than 100 pins there. BTW, why won't Intel release a pin-compatible version of the Pentium M for Pentium 4 boards? (Oh, well - PowerLeap is making an adaptor - there'd be a/. or K5 story about it, but both were shot down quickly)
Hmm, have you asked Matrox yet? Last I checked, they were still around. Oh, wait, you said $50... hmm... what's wrong with an ATI Radeon 7000, or integrated graphics?
BTW, this is their cheapest card: Millennium G450 PCI G45FMDVP32DB
It's $115 in bulk.
If you don't mind a several generation old card, $20 will get you this: http://tekgems.com/Products/matrox-g200-millenium- agp-driver.htm
One generation newer than that, and $42+s&h will get you http://store.yahoo.com/compuvest/330000119-00.html
And, one generation back from the lowest end Matrox card is this at $50 plus s&h: http://store.luluusa.com/g400agp16mb.html
Re:Not good for any use except servers
on
The Return of S3
·
· Score: 1
Hell, my SavagePro is the other way around - it needs fucking ClearType it's so damn sharp! However, the color is so that it defaults to being VERY dark, and cranking it up so that dark colors render right washes everything out. I'm just going to stick with my good ol' trusty i810 with a Socket 370 CPU until PowerLeap releases their Socket 479 to 478 adaptor, then it's P4 board shopping time (don't need much - just 400fsb, as that's all the Pentium M can do).
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Ah, but my dream box is on Old-Computers.com: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c =834
/.ing? Sorry that it doesn't run Intel or AMD, and I'm stepping out of the religious wars (it's a Motorola, you may have heard of some of their processors used in Apple computers).
Think it can take a 10Mb/s Ethernet card, and withstand a
BTW, the first system by Apple that WASN'T a 32-bit CPU on a 16 or 24-bit bus was in the Mac II family. Don't believe me? The 68000 is a 32-bit CPU on a 16-bit bus. Apple never used it, but the 68008 was a 32-bit CPU on an 8-bit bus (!) The Sinclair QL (Linus's second computer, if you didn't read his book) ran it.
I got one at a yard sale a few years ago, and I didn't find the BASIC that bad - it was standard MS BASIC, after all... I had a tape drive and a thermal printer (took cash register tape) for it, plus a 16K RAM upgrade, paddles, and two carts. Both carts didn't work well, especially through the RAM upgrade. I think it got donated to goodwill - well, good riddance! I preferred my old //c (my parents' first, and eventually my first) to that old thing. Of course, my strangest box had to be my old //e clone - the Hacker //e. It was a generic clone //e motherboard (pirated ROM, too), a ][/][+ style case, and ran a 2MHz 6502 (wasn't that stable, though, and many games were unplayable - Apple always used either 1MHz CPUs or those that could be underclocked to 1MHz).
Actually, the PowerPC to the 68040 would be like the Pentium to the 486, except I don't think anyone actually built a Pentium Overdrive system - it was almost cheaper to do it right (although, a Socket 2 or 3 mobo COULD handle 50MHz FSB Pentiums without breaking a sweat).
RTFLA. One guy said Apple I, one said Apple ][, one or two said ][+, many said //c, many also said //e, and nobody said anything Franklin.
I never did try it out on IE. I hit it with Links (I know, it supports JavaScript, but whenever something tries to pop up, it asks whether that's ok) and saved the source (my shell account didn't offer WGet). I then looked at it - the JavaScript told it to popup a new window whenever the woman with the crap all over her face was moused over (and there's a good chance you'll mouse over it in your rush to slam the back button), and then the popups came. Each one had code to move itself around, and when the image in it was moused over, it would make a new popup. The part about IE? In IE it hides the title bar, and intercepts attempts to hit or -, so that you can't kill the process. It also creates a window (with it's titlebar still intact) that runs a REALLY fucking annoying Flash animation - you can find a benign version here: http://www.originalicons.com/smile.html (the version that Nero-Online uses is an IE-only window-mover in JavaScript - didn't affect Opera when I navigated to the URL)
Yes, a 2.4C will take you to about 3GHz, but an Athlon XP 2500+ can go from 1.83 to 2.2GHz (sometimes 2.4 if you've got a good heatsink) for a LOT less money). Also, it puts less strain on the system bus when it's a multiplier tweak instead of an FSB tweak. Now, for some math:
The 2.4C gains 600MHz, or it runs at 1.25 times it's normal speed, in an overclock to 3GHz.
The 2500+ gains 370MHz, or it runs at approximately 1.20 times it's normal speed, in an overclock to 2.2GHz. However, basing this on performance ratings means that the overclock is going from 2500 to 3200, running at 1.28 times it's normal speed on performance ratings. This means one of two things: AMD was getting more aggressive with their performance ratings, or they were following the performance curve of the Pentium 4 line (unlikely). Look at the Athlon 64: it runs at 2.2GHz to get a PR of either 3000 or 3200. Someone needs to bench a P4 3.2 800 HT, a P4EE, an Athlon XP 3200+, and an Athlon 64 3200+ to see how AMD holds up, and how aggressive their PRs are. BTW, test your mobos first, and use the best performing mobo money can buy for each CPU. Obviously, you only need one Socket 478 mobo... BTW, why not add in a Pentium M 1.7 once PowerLeap releases their adaptors in 1Q 2004 (or so they said in their e-mail to me) or Intel releases a Socket 478 Pentium M (hint: 1000 signatures on my petition before the end of January 1, 2004 would help GREATLY).
Swap CPUs and try again - see what happens. Also, look at the date code - if it's 0339 or greater, it's locked (has to do with the release of the Athlon 64 - AMD wants you to buy an A64, not overclock an AXP 2500+... and the A64s are toplocked - only the FX series is not toplocked, and this is because the FX is designed to allow overclocking (Opterons are fully locked)).
However, it's completely impossible to put a G5 on a G4 board. You wouldn't stick an Athlon 64 on your Socket A board, would you? Think of it this way:
The G4 is to the G3 as the Pentium III is to the Pentium II. That's why a Slot 1 P3 worked on a P2 board, and also why a G4 CPU ran on a G3 board.
The G5 is to the G4 as the Athlon 64 is to the Athlon XP. Apples to oranges (no pun intended).
It's Nero Online's Last Measure, aka the worst use of JavaScript and IE's trust of the page ever created (it's still VERY bad on Opera, but IE is MUCH worse)
No, it's if your broadband goes out (power outage, equipment failure, cable damage, etc.), you'll still have a backup. Vonage DOES let you pretend you're on a normal line - you plug the box into your router, you plug your regular landline phones into the box, you go. It sounds pretty interesting...
OK, then can you tell me about it advertising a certain CPU and graphics card? I can't find anything on google, and I want to see some screens of this. (BTW, I WON'T be getting it... I'll just rent Reloaded and Revolutions)
If there weren't a 68008, there might not be Linux. The computer that Linus used before his 386 PC that he first developed Linux on was a Sinclair (forget the model) with a 68008. He wouldn't have devoted almost a whole chapter to it in his book if the 68008 didn't exist.
Also, why aren't early Macs "32-bit clean"? It's because of several factors, including that early 68k CPUs didn't have 32-bit bussez. The other factor was that Macs were still optimized to work with a 16-bit bus for the longest time...
How the fuck? BTW, a NetBurst Celery has half the L2 cache, which doesn't sound as bad at first, but when you realize that the cache is what's keeping NetBurst CPUs from going into the gutter performance wise, the Celeries suck - just look at Anand's benchmarks of sub-$100 Intel and AMD CPUs (with a 1.8A P4 as a baseline) - except for the Duron 1.6, AMD CPUs and the P4 MURDERED Celeries. As for the Duron, it usually held it's own against the Celeries and 1.8 P4.
Tbe 754's doomed, but it's going to be like Intel was with Socket 2 and 3 and the early Pentium Overdrives - AMD will release up to an Athlon 64 3700+ in Socket 754.
Last I heard, they finally got them moved over to Windows 2000, and now to Windows Server 2003. It was the Hotmail servers.
In 2011 or 2012? Can I borrow your time machine to see what MS is doing and how far SCO is shoved into the ground at that time?
I do agree that China-only access to MS source could be a major issue. If MS allows at least the government of any country to look at source, this would help fortify government systems, if not prevent civilian computers from getting hit.
You owe me a new Dell Inspiron 1100 keyboard, sent via same day air.
Athlon XP 2500+: $83
Abit NF7: $100 (I'd use an A7N8X Deluxe here, but...)
A multiplier adjustment to up it to 2800+ speeds (I've heard the 2500+ is an underclocked 2800+): $0
Total: $183
Here's the deal:
Athlon 64 (mid to high-end consumer CPU): Socket 754 now, possibly Socket 939 in the future.
Athlon 64 FX-51 (high-end consumer to mid-end enthusiast/professional CPU): Socket 940 now, next version of the 64 FX will be Socket 939
Opteron 1xx (mid-end professional or server CPU), 2xx (mid to high-end professional or server CPU), 8xx (high-end server CPU): Socket 940
Umm... no. The 68000 was a 16-bit bus, 32-bit core CPU, just like the good ol' 386SX. The 68008 (I think) is an 8-bit bus version. I don't know if there was a 32-bit bus version of the original 68000.
Actually, I thought that the 386SX was designed FOR THE 286 BUS! It wouldn't be hard to make an adaptor yourself, considering that there had to be less than 100 pins there. BTW, why won't Intel release a pin-compatible version of the Pentium M for Pentium 4 boards? (Oh, well - PowerLeap is making an adaptor - there'd be a /. or K5 story about it, but both were shot down quickly)
I don't think KDE has a tool for changing res on the fly, but SuSE, a KDE-based distro, does (SaX2).
Hmm, have you asked Matrox yet? Last I checked, they were still around. Oh, wait, you said $50... hmm... what's wrong with an ATI Radeon 7000, or integrated graphics?
- agp-driver.htm
l
BTW, this is their cheapest card:
Millennium G450 PCI
G45FMDVP32DB
It's $115 in bulk.
If you don't mind a several generation old card, $20 will get you this: http://tekgems.com/Products/matrox-g200-millenium
One generation newer than that, and $42+s&h will get you http://store.yahoo.com/compuvest/330000119-00.htm
And, one generation back from the lowest end Matrox card is this at $50 plus s&h: http://store.luluusa.com/g400agp16mb.html
Hell, my SavagePro is the other way around - it needs fucking ClearType it's so damn sharp! However, the color is so that it defaults to being VERY dark, and cranking it up so that dark colors render right washes everything out. I'm just going to stick with my good ol' trusty i810 with a Socket 370 CPU until PowerLeap releases their Socket 479 to 478 adaptor, then it's P4 board shopping time (don't need much - just 400fsb, as that's all the Pentium M can do).