If you are interested in the product enough to download a pirate copy, you are by definition within the target market. If you are in the target market and satisfy your need for it without payment, you have distorted the market. products are made on the basis that a reasonable proportion of the target market will pay for the product, assuming a quality product. The product has 100% up front fixed costs and zero marginal costs. You do not save the producer anything by copying as opposed to taking.
What part of this eludes you? If you would not have bought it anyway, then DON'T TAKE IT. By absolute clear logical definition, if you are interested enough in a movie/game to download it and watch / play it, what the fuck makes you think you are not in the target market? and please explain why you think its ok for you to take other peoples work for free? because 99% of the world would describe that as theft, and you as a thief, and rightly so.
If something is for sale, and you get your copy without paying. That's theft. Dance around the issue all you want, anyone who had a decent upbringing understands theft when they see it. How exactly do you expect people to produce new content if the target market all steals it. People whine that all music is sanitized commercial crap, yet that is the music that *sells*. people who pirate stuff have no rights to whine about any content, because you are not part of the market, and therefore the market will not produce stuff you will like.
wow. A student who actually realises that university exist so he can become better educated. Sir, I applaud you. Unfortunately, standard slashdot opinion is that universities exist to supply high speed downloads of hollywood movies for free to students. I can't pretend to be vaguely surprised that the industry creating such movies, and employing thousands of people, is going to lobby to protect itself from people taking their product for free. You might as well complain about stores having security measures to prevent shoplifting. Please don't bother trying to point out the difference between a physical product and a copy, it just means you don't understand economics.
Yet another study, funded by an ADVERTISING company saying that adverts work. They trot one out every 3 months or so. Its bullshit. And the facts remain gamers do not want ads. I will not buy any game with ads in, and skipped on BF 2142 as a result. When will the guys in suits get this into their thick skulls?
wow, your debating skills are just awesome. what other childlike insults do you have ready when you realise that you have totally lost the argument. Its always the anti-copyright people who get wound-up, insulting and abusive isn't it? says a lot about the kind of people who take that view.
I'll come back to slashdot when I feel like it mate. It's not your website, and knowing your sort, you'd claim that 'all property s theft' anyway. HAHAHAHA. So tell me, when you're not TYPING IN CAPITALS, how do you earn a living, in some magical way where people do not need to pay for what you do I presume?
No I'm not. I just disagree with you, but if you are incapable of debating the merits of your argument without becoming abusive, that just speaks volumes. You claim TPB is some kind of pro-free speech site that happens to have the odd copyrighted file. I point out the entire top 100 is copyrighted, and you get all antsy about it. Face facts, TPB is a warez site. its designed to make getting illegal copies of other peoples work easy. The top 100 shows this glaringly. Just face the facts, the site is entirely indefensible.
Nope. "to each according to there needs, from each according to their means." I think that was Marx, and it also sounds like the arguments put forward for taking other peoples work for free often spouted by defenders of TPB.
the advertising on TPB makes a fortune, to run a site which you keep boasting hosts no content, and thus is relatively low bandwidth. Its a big money making scam, dressed up as some sort of 'stick it to the man' bullshit.
I don't want uploaders anonymity removed so they develop a more hardcore encrypted system, I want them to obey the fucking law and pay for content like honest people. Is that so hard to understand?
The people using the pirate bay are just too tight assed to pay for their entertainment like everyone else. there is no political or moral argument here, it's not food or shelter. its just people stealing stuff. And don't embarrass yourself with any pedantic argument about the definition of theft. If it was made by someone else and has a price, and you take it without paying, it's theft.
why is it that such drivel is always posted by anonymous cowards? amusing to hear you slagging off karl marx, when your attitude to the market for creative works seems to be a communist one.
TPB only links to copyrighted and illegally hosted material, and it does it deliberately in an anonymous way to help them get away with it. IE doesn't mask the URL does it? Think about it. And learn to be civil kid.
I don't respect people who take other peoples hard work, distribute it, and make advertising revenue from doing so. Plus, have you thought through their argument?
industry says "we want to remove the anonymity of filesharers"
pirates say "this is wrong. removing anonymity will result in more anonymous file sharing services, which will be a haven for paedophiles"
so basically the pirates are saying anonymity is bad because it will allow people to break the law. And from this, they conclude that anonymity should remain. What part of their logic actually makes sense to you? Anonymity either encourages the breaking of the law or it does not, you cannot have it both ways, just because you want free music.
hello coward. has it occurred to you that these guys are just facilitating others breaking the law? its a pathetic moral defence to say "I'm not actually physically hosting the bytes in this case", its a bit like saying "I just told them how to bypass the locks, I didn't actually physically break in, officer" TPB exists so that geeks can get hollywood movies for free, while its owners rake in advertising cash. It's a business model based upon copyright infringement and leeching. Dressing it up as anything else is just naive
"The aim of the proposal is to facilitate efforts to clamp down on illegal file-sharing. This in turn is expected to stimulate the development of lawful alternatives for the spread of music and movies over the internet, according to a statement from the Justice Department.
Tobias Andersson, press spokesman for lobby organization Piratbyrån, was critical of the move.
"This is completely crazy," he said, before adding that "it is time to stop pampering the record industry".
"The danger here is that it will speed up the development of anonymous file-sharing programmes that make it technically more difficult to trace somebody's internet use. These kinds of services can also be exploited by people involved in criminal activities, such as paedophiles".
============
Okaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy. So the guy from the 'pirate party' is now trying to defend a website full of copyrighted material because "to attack our freedom to share copies of spiderman 3, is to encourage paedophiles". This is truly pathetic, and goes to show the lengths some people will go to in order to keep on getting music, movies and other stuff for free. If the pirate bay really gave a damn about free speech, they would remove *all* copyrighted material, and merely use the site to host information that genuinely should be protected, like leaked documents from whistleblowers, information that governments want suppressed, political opinions far outside the mainstream etc etc. The fact is, maybe 0.01% of stuff on TPB will fall into a 'geneuine protected speech' category, the rest is just copyrighted stuff people want to leech. By doing this, ironically, they are totally undermining the legitimate argument for the protection of a free, uncensored web, and peoples right to publish information of a sensitive nature. If you put some civil right activist in a courtroom arguing that its essential that TPB exists because it is a defence of free speech, he will just be totally crushed by an opposition lawyer who hands the judge a PC and shows him the top 500 torrents on TPB.
If you care about privacy, freedom of information and censroship, defending people like TPB is entirely the wrong way to do it. They trivialise the entire argument into "my human rights to get free hollywood movies".
I used to drive vans full of computer equipment through central London when they first introduced all the checkpoints. The cops would occasionally stop the van, with its blacked out windows, and demand to look in the back. Faced with tons of unusual looking metal boxes with cables, sockets and switches they would end up asking us what it was, "satellite decoding equipment" was often the answer, but we could have said "dilithium crystals" for all it mattered. unless every policemen is an expert in electronics, chemical analysis and explosives, they don't stand a chance of catching a well organized, confident and trained group of terrorists. If you pack a transit van with gas cylinders, nails and fertilizer, and write 'death to america' on the side of the van, you might be in trouble, otherwise, your chances of getting rumbled are close to zero. So the aim of this is to 'reassure the public', it won't do anything to actually make people safe.
You must be new here. This is a story about the music business, and thus just a thinly veiled excuse to bash the RIAA in the comments, and call for the abolition of copyright. Nobody here cares about actual facts, or the case that in the UK, we have had the performing rights society collecting music licenses from premises for at least the last 20 years (a friend of mine used to work for them), and I suspect, much much longer.
Why? because YOU don't like her writing? millions of people in hundreds of countries do, yet amazingly you consider yourself somehow 'culturally superior' because you take a different view. What have you written that is better?
Slashdot Mirror
wow, you still couldn't resist could you.
/game to download it and watch / play it, what the fuck makes you think you are not in the target market? and please explain why you think its ok for you to take other peoples work for free? because 99% of the world would describe that as theft, and you as a thief, and rightly so.
If you are interested in the product enough to download a pirate copy, you are by definition within the target market.
If you are in the target market and satisfy your need for it without payment, you have distorted the market.
products are made on the basis that a reasonable proportion of the target market will pay for the product, assuming a quality product.
The product has 100% up front fixed costs and zero marginal costs. You do not save the producer anything by copying as opposed to taking.
What part of this eludes you? If you would not have bought it anyway, then DON'T TAKE IT.
By absolute clear logical definition, if you are interested enough in a movie
If something is for sale, and you get your copy without paying. That's theft. Dance around the issue all you want, anyone who had a decent upbringing understands theft when they see it.
How exactly do you expect people to produce new content if the target market all steals it. People whine that all music is sanitized commercial crap, yet that is the music that *sells*. people who pirate stuff have no rights to whine about any content, because you are not part of the market, and therefore the market will not produce stuff you will like.
Excellent post, wish I had mod points right now. Its good to see not everyone is taken in by the groupthink of "file trading is teh c00l"
wow. A student who actually realises that university exist so he can become better educated. Sir, I applaud you. Unfortunately, standard slashdot opinion is that universities exist to supply high speed downloads of hollywood movies for free to students. I can't pretend to be vaguely surprised that the industry creating such movies, and employing thousands of people, is going to lobby to protect itself from people taking their product for free. You might as well complain about stores having security measures to prevent shoplifting.
Please don't bother trying to point out the difference between a physical product and a copy, it just means you don't understand economics.
Yet another study, funded by an ADVERTISING company saying that adverts work. They trot one out every 3 months or so. Its bullshit. And the facts remain gamers do not want ads. I will not buy any game with ads in, and skipped on BF 2142 as a result. When will the guys in suits get this into their thick skulls?
so speaks someone who has never created anything original, clearly.
wow, your debating skills are just awesome. what other childlike insults do you have ready when you realise that you have totally lost the argument.
Its always the anti-copyright people who get wound-up, insulting and abusive isn't it? says a lot about the kind of people who take that view.
I'll come back to slashdot when I feel like it mate. It's not your website, and knowing your sort, you'd claim that 'all property s theft' anyway. HAHAHAHA.
So tell me, when you're not TYPING IN CAPITALS, how do you earn a living, in some magical way where people do not need to pay for what you do I presume?
"You're just jealous you didn't think of it first."
No, actually I consider taking other peoples work for free and distributing it to be deeply immoral. Clearly, your morals are 'different'.
No I'm not. I just disagree with you, but if you are incapable of debating the merits of your argument without becoming abusive, that just speaks volumes. You claim TPB is some kind of pro-free speech site that happens to have the odd copyrighted file. I point out the entire top 100 is copyrighted, and you get all antsy about it. Face facts, TPB is a warez site. its designed to make getting illegal copies of other peoples work easy. The top 100 shows this glaringly. Just face the facts, the site is entirely indefensible.
"infofacist" lol. you crack me up.
jesus how difficult is it for you to grasp the concept of 'fixed costs'. go look it up kid.
"The only ads I have ever seen on TPB are for TPB, TPB merchandise, and The Swedish Pirate Party "
seriously? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
turn off adblock mate.
Nope. "to each according to there needs, from each according to their means." I think that was Marx, and it also sounds like the arguments put forward for taking other peoples work for free often spouted by defenders of TPB.
yawn. try to be civil.
please show me all the content in TPBs top 100 as of today which is not copyrighted. I just checked. I'm not worried...
the advertising on TPB makes a fortune, to run a site which you keep boasting hosts no content, and thus is relatively low bandwidth. Its a big money making scam, dressed up as some sort of 'stick it to the man' bullshit.
I don't want uploaders anonymity removed so they develop a more hardcore encrypted system, I want them to obey the fucking law and pay for content like honest people. Is that so hard to understand?
The people using the pirate bay are just too tight assed to pay for their entertainment like everyone else. there is no political or moral argument here, it's not food or shelter. its just people stealing stuff. And don't embarrass yourself with any pedantic argument about the definition of theft. If it was made by someone else and has a price, and you take it without paying, it's theft.
so how does this:% 5DDvDrip%5BEng%5D-aXXo
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3735159/Outlaw%5B2007
(the top torrent on TPB right now)
an action movie, "save peoples lives"
I cannot see anything in their top 100 that isn't a PC game or a TV show / Movie.
Where is all this life saving human right stuff then? or doesn't that generate enough ad views for the guys running the site?
why is it that such drivel is always posted by anonymous cowards? amusing to hear you slagging off karl marx, when your attitude to the market for creative works seems to be a communist one.
TPB only links to copyrighted and illegally hosted material, and it does it deliberately in an anonymous way to help them get away with it. IE doesn't mask the URL does it? Think about it. And learn to be civil kid.
agreed 100%
I don't respect people who take other peoples hard work, distribute it, and make advertising revenue from doing so.
Plus, have you thought through their argument?
industry says "we want to remove the anonymity of filesharers"
pirates say "this is wrong. removing anonymity will result in more anonymous file sharing services, which will be a haven for paedophiles"
so basically the pirates are saying anonymity is bad because it will allow people to break the law. And from this, they conclude that anonymity should remain.
What part of their logic actually makes sense to you? Anonymity either encourages the breaking of the law or it does not, you cannot have it both ways, just because you want free music.
hello coward. has it occurred to you that these guys are just facilitating others breaking the law? its a pathetic moral defence to say "I'm not actually physically hosting the bytes in this case", its a bit like saying "I just told them how to bypass the locks, I didn't actually physically break in, officer"
TPB exists so that geeks can get hollywood movies for free, while its owners rake in advertising cash. It's a business model based upon copyright infringement and leeching. Dressing it up as anything else is just naive
"The aim of the proposal is to facilitate efforts to clamp down on illegal file-sharing. This in turn is expected to stimulate the development of lawful alternatives for the spread of music and movies over the internet, according to a statement from the Justice Department.
Tobias Andersson, press spokesman for lobby organization Piratbyrån, was critical of the move.
"This is completely crazy," he said, before adding that "it is time to stop pampering the record industry".
"The danger here is that it will speed up the development of anonymous file-sharing programmes that make it technically more difficult to trace somebody's internet use. These kinds of services can also be exploited by people involved in criminal activities, such as paedophiles".
============
Okaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy. So the guy from the 'pirate party' is now trying to defend a website full of copyrighted material because "to attack our freedom to share copies of spiderman 3, is to encourage paedophiles".
This is truly pathetic, and goes to show the lengths some people will go to in order to keep on getting music, movies and other stuff for free. If the pirate bay really gave a damn about free speech, they would remove *all* copyrighted material, and merely use the site to host information that genuinely should be protected, like leaked documents from whistleblowers, information that governments want suppressed, political opinions far outside the mainstream etc etc. The fact is, maybe 0.01% of stuff on TPB will fall into a 'geneuine protected speech' category, the rest is just copyrighted stuff people want to leech.
By doing this, ironically, they are totally undermining the legitimate argument for the protection of a free, uncensored web, and peoples right to publish information of a sensitive nature. If you put some civil right activist in a courtroom arguing that its essential that TPB exists because it is a defence of free speech, he will just be totally crushed by an opposition lawyer who hands the judge a PC and shows him the top 500 torrents on TPB.
If you care about privacy, freedom of information and censroship, defending people like TPB is entirely the wrong way to do it. They trivialise the entire argument into "my human rights to get free hollywood movies".
I used to drive vans full of computer equipment through central London when they first introduced all the checkpoints. The cops would occasionally stop the van, with its blacked out windows, and demand to look in the back. Faced with tons of unusual looking metal boxes with cables, sockets and switches they would end up asking us what it was, "satellite decoding equipment" was often the answer, but we could have said "dilithium crystals" for all it mattered. unless every policemen is an expert in electronics, chemical analysis and explosives, they don't stand a chance of catching a well organized, confident and trained group of terrorists. If you pack a transit van with gas cylinders, nails and fertilizer, and write 'death to america' on the side of the van, you might be in trouble, otherwise, your chances of getting rumbled are close to zero. So the aim of this is to 'reassure the public', it won't do anything to actually make people safe.
You must be new here. This is a story about the music business, and thus just a thinly veiled excuse to bash the RIAA in the comments, and call for the abolition of copyright. Nobody here cares about actual facts, or the case that in the UK, we have had the performing rights society collecting music licenses from premises for at least the last 20 years (a friend of mine used to work for them), and I suspect, much much longer.
Why? because YOU don't like her writing? millions of people in hundreds of countries do, yet amazingly you consider yourself somehow 'culturally superior' because you take a different view. What have you written that is better?