I don't understand how so many Slashdotters don't see that there is 'programming' outside of doing programming full time. It's like claiming that casual phone gamers don't count as gamers.
My boss and his boss's boss don't care how I get a job done as long as it gets done. Sometimes it was as simple as removing duplicate lines from an excel file. I've worked with people that did it by hand. We had a set of VBA scripts to do 1 & 2D linear interpolation because we did it a lot.
Some of our engineering apps were just buttons in Excel to run some predefined macros on a set of data from the test cells. We could have done it in C. Spent months prematurely optimizing it. Bringing in actual CS majors to do the whole thing. But the VBA worked, was fast enough and tested by the guy with the PhD in Engineering that developed the equations.
It's depressing that so called 'programmers' lose their mind at different syntax. I can stomp my feet and pout at Spanish vs English word order but if I want to communicate in either I just suck it up and deal with it.
Unless you don't drive a car and don't fly. dSpace is one of the few Hardware In The Loop vendors. Good chance something you rode in, flew in, or built the road you're driving on was tested on it. Scripted in Python (2.7, but that's an improvement from what was 2.5).
They are migrating to a.NET API that you can access though Python.NET.
any significant scale
I think most developers don't understand how many niche industries there are out there. If Caterpillar sells 100 of it's largest mining truck in a year, how fast does the HIL tester need to be?
Why use what is essentially a giant abstraction layer for another language?
Eric Raymond’s 17 Unix Rules covers this:
Rule of Generation Developers should avoid writing code by hand and instead write abstract high-level programs that generate code. This rule aims to reduce human errors and save time.
Rule of Economy Developers should value developer time over machine time, because machine cycles today are relatively inexpensive compared to prices in the 1970s. This rule aims to reduce development costs of projects.
Rule of Optimization Developers should prototype software before polishing it. This rule aims to prevent developers from spending too much time for marginal gains.
Lets compete to complete the average task in most offices. You do it in Assembly, I'll do it in Python and we'll see who is done first and gets the most work done in a year.
It's a massive leg up from VBA and just Excel equations while being as easy as BASIC to learn.
Python has hit critical mass in both popularity and tools available. C, C++, Java, Perl and anything else the average/.er is going to complain about going anywhere just like FORTRAN and COLBOL haven't.
XKCD hit the nail on the head. It's something easy enough for middle schoolers to grock and powerful enough to use with TensorFlow. It's our office's go-to language for "I need this task done". It's basically BASIC where you can import math (numpy), plotting (matplotlib), neuralnetwork (TensorFlow) and other packages.
Programmers waste enormous amounts of time thinking about, or worrying about, the speed of noncritical parts of their programs, and these attempts at efficiency actually have a strong negative impact when debugging and maintenance are considered. We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%.".
You can knock out something in 30 minutes in Python that would take longer in anything else and the performance difference isn't worth doing it in something else.
"Everyone is going to embedded, quick make at IoT but make it overpriced and half assed".
"Damn, everyone in IoT wants cheap and doesn't care about about x86."
Now:
"Everyone is going to neural nets. Quick make a neural net tool and make it overpriced and half assed"
How far behind CUDA and Google's ASICs are these going to be? At least with CUDA I can pick my neural net tool (Caffe, TensorFlow, etc.) This sounds locked to Caffe.
Finally WTF is with everyone making massive dongles with just a USB-A port? They don't fit on half of the USB ports I use because of spacing. It gives you a large lever arm to torque on the motherboard. Just give me a microUSB or USB-C port and let me plug it in via cable. It looks like I'd have to buy an 8 port USB hub just to fit 4 of them onto a machine.
It also doesn't help that it's proprietary, expensive
Develop something else..mdls are XML with a known format. Given how fancy Jupyter Notebooks has become I'm shocked someone hasn't come up with a ModelBased web GUI that would autocode down to C, Python, etc.
snx
*slx. It's just a zip file of XML files. No different than any of the "binary" office document formats that are just compressed xmls.
The format is easily opened and parsed as XML in Python or any other language. No one in OSS has taken the initiative to do anything with it.
doesn't lend itself nicely to collaborative development
I actually like it more for collaborative development because it means you have to break apart your system into libraries. It pushes our team to the UNIX philosophy. Peers insisted on one massive model until merging went to hell. Now that everything's broken apart it's much easier to unit test.
You should hear discussions about how to route your signals in Simulink or how you should group your subsystems.
Been there done that. We have style guidelines just like any other 'code.' Some of that is dictated by standards like DO-178C and we let Simulink validation handle if it was done 'right'. (No different than linting hand written code).
At least in the code I've written, I can *always* write it faster in C than in Simulink.
I'm the opposite. I can knock out a complex controller much, much faster in Simulink. Changes are even faster. Need to test it on an 8-bit controller, switch everything to fixed point. Need to validate fixed point vs floating point? A few clicks.
I won't see C replaced in the systems I work on (cars),
C isn't being replaced but it also isn't being written.
Simulink Embedded Coder / "Model Based Design" is taking over most industries.
It's trivial to switch between C/C++. Adding Rust, ADA, etc shouldn't be too much of a leap.
Rule of Generation
Developers should avoid writing code by hand and instead write abstract high-level programs that generate code. This rule aims to reduce human errors and save time.
I worked for one of the above and, according to our Fortune 500 lawyers, weren't allowed to submit bug reports because it may "give away proprietary IP".
Now how about the rest of the companies that work with technology and don't?
Ford, VW, Caterpillar, Cummins, Deere, Harley-Davidson, NXP, Boeing, dSpace, etc.
large tech company
Are people going to pretend that since their primary product isn't tech that they aren't using the latest and greatest tech available? We're out there writing code daily and none of it sees the light of day.
flagging images that humans should examine more closely
That's exactly how it's going to work. You could train a 5 year old to determine if an image showed scenario A or B. It's just fancy chicken sexing. Anything that is decisively A or B gets labeled as such. Images that are questionable get passed on to Level 2, the Human.
Thai authorities said they'd seized four Lamborghini cars and three upmarket residences with a combined value of $11.7m (400 million Thai Baht). US authorities had apparently been seeking to extradite Cazes at the time of his death.
This guy could have lead a very comfortable life bouncing around the globe traveling, occasionally logging in to make sure things were running smoothly and shifting money out.
1. Coding is a safe job. White Collar jobs in general do not got a lot of support to be unionized.
This is opposite of what a majority of people here and elsewhere claim about it.
2. Compared to these other unionized jobs, you are not normally getting walked on. Your job may suck, for the most part you are getting paid a middle class salary.
Again, constant talk about being walked on.
6. There is a huge range in skill set quality. Many unionized jobs are easily replaceable jobs. Some Entry Level coding jobs may be like this. But normally after people gain skills they tend to specialize, and become harder to replace.
That's how Unions work as well. Especially the longer you've been on a job. You're not just going to go in and replace a master pipefitter with some H1B that's never touched a pipe before.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't understand how so many Slashdotters don't see that there is 'programming' outside of doing programming full time. It's like claiming that casual phone gamers don't count as gamers.
My boss and his boss's boss don't care how I get a job done as long as it gets done. Sometimes it was as simple as removing duplicate lines from an excel file. I've worked with people that did it by hand. We had a set of VBA scripts to do 1 & 2D linear interpolation because we did it a lot.
Some of our engineering apps were just buttons in Excel to run some predefined macros on a set of data from the test cells. We could have done it in C. Spent months prematurely optimizing it. Bringing in actual CS majors to do the whole thing. But the VBA worked, was fast enough and tested by the guy with the PhD in Engineering that developed the equations.
Simulink Embedded Coder. (There's a reason they won't put it on the cheap home use license).
Mathworks is going to be fine.
Did you even try to install NodeJS on Windows?
Have they fixed the fact that NPM dies when running into MAX_PATH on Windows?
It's depressing that so called 'programmers' lose their mind at different syntax. I can stomp my feet and pout at Spanish vs English word order but if I want to communicate in either I just suck it up and deal with it.
And until I hopped over to Python I did use PHP as that when I wanted something a bit better than Bash.
But PHP, JavaScript and Bash aren't as easy to install on Windows. They certainly don't have the number of packages available.
"How to ____ in Python" will turn up results for almost anything. I would be interested in seeing a CUDA backed neural network in Bash.
But if you're building your business on it,
You can't and you won't.
Unless you don't drive a car and don't fly. dSpace is one of the few Hardware In The Loop vendors. Good chance something you rode in, flew in, or built the road you're driving on was tested on it. Scripted in Python (2.7, but that's an improvement from what was 2.5).
They are migrating to a .NET API that you can access though Python.NET.
any significant scale
I think most developers don't understand how many niche industries there are out there. If Caterpillar sells 100 of it's largest mining truck in a year, how fast does the HIL tester need to be?
Why use what is essentially a giant abstraction layer for another language?
Eric Raymond’s 17 Unix Rules covers this:
Rule of Generation
Developers should avoid writing code by hand and instead write abstract high-level programs that generate code. This rule aims to reduce human errors and save time.
Rule of Economy
Developers should value developer time over machine time, because machine cycles today are relatively inexpensive compared to prices in the 1970s. This rule aims to reduce development costs of projects.
Rule of Optimization
Developers should prototype software before polishing it. This rule aims to prevent developers from spending too much time for marginal gains.
Python beats C in all 3.
* It's a scripting language.
And Michaelangelo just had a brush.
Lets compete to complete the average task in most offices. You do it in Assembly, I'll do it in Python and we'll see who is done first and gets the most work done in a year.
It's a massive leg up from VBA and just Excel equations while being as easy as BASIC to learn.
Python has hit critical mass in both popularity and tools available. C, C++, Java, Perl and anything else the average /.er is going to complain about going anywhere just like FORTRAN and COLBOL haven't.
XKCD hit the nail on the head. It's something easy enough for middle schoolers to grock and powerful enough to use with TensorFlow. It's our office's go-to language for "I need this task done". It's basically BASIC where you can import math (numpy), plotting (matplotlib), neuralnetwork (TensorFlow) and other packages.
Programmers waste enormous amounts of time thinking about, or worrying about, the speed of noncritical parts of their programs, and these attempts at efficiency actually have a strong negative impact when debugging and maintenance are considered. We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%.".
You can knock out something in 30 minutes in Python that would take longer in anything else and the performance difference isn't worth doing it in something else.
would go to a trade school?
Then:
Now:
How far behind CUDA and Google's ASICs are these going to be? At least with CUDA I can pick my neural net tool (Caffe, TensorFlow, etc.) This sounds locked to Caffe.
Finally WTF is with everyone making massive dongles with just a USB-A port? They don't fit on half of the USB ports I use because of spacing. It gives you a large lever arm to torque on the motherboard. Just give me a microUSB or USB-C port and let me plug it in via cable. It looks like I'd have to buy an 8 port USB hub just to fit 4 of them onto a machine.
What technological improvement in the last 2000 years doesn't fit that?
No different than a hacker changing a mailing address to amass money sent to an address.
Why the hell did they not sign it with a PGP key to authenticate that they were who they said they were?
Awesome. I can't wait to pick up some cheap GPUs to add to my TensorFlow machines.
It also doesn't help that it's proprietary, expensive
Develop something else. .mdls are XML with a known format. Given how fancy Jupyter Notebooks has become I'm shocked someone hasn't come up with a ModelBased web GUI that would autocode down to C, Python, etc.
snx
*slx. It's just a zip file of XML files. No different than any of the "binary" office document formats that are just compressed xmls.
The format is easily opened and parsed as XML in Python or any other language. No one in OSS has taken the initiative to do anything with it.
doesn't lend itself nicely to collaborative development
I actually like it more for collaborative development because it means you have to break apart your system into libraries. It pushes our team to the UNIX philosophy. Peers insisted on one massive model until merging went to hell. Now that everything's broken apart it's much easier to unit test.
You should hear discussions about how to route your signals in Simulink or how you should group your subsystems.
Been there done that. We have style guidelines just like any other 'code.' Some of that is dictated by standards like DO-178C and we let Simulink validation handle if it was done 'right'. (No different than linting hand written code).
At least in the code I've written, I can *always* write it faster in C than in Simulink.
I'm the opposite. I can knock out a complex controller much, much faster in Simulink. Changes are even faster. Need to test it on an 8-bit controller, switch everything to fixed point. Need to validate fixed point vs floating point? A few clicks.
I won't see C replaced in the systems I work on (cars),
C isn't being replaced but it also isn't being written.
Simulink Embedded Coder / "Model Based Design" is taking over most industries.
It's trivial to switch between C/C++. Adding Rust, ADA, etc shouldn't be too much of a leap.
Rule of Generation
Use != contribute.
I worked for one of the above and, according to our Fortune 500 lawyers, weren't allowed to submit bug reports because it may "give away proprietary IP".
Now how about the rest of the companies that work with technology and don't?
Ford, VW, Caterpillar, Cummins, Deere, Harley-Davidson, NXP, Boeing, dSpace, etc.
large tech company
Are people going to pretend that since their primary product isn't tech that they aren't using the latest and greatest tech available? We're out there writing code daily and none of it sees the light of day.
flagging images that humans should examine more closely
That's exactly how it's going to work. You could train a 5 year old to determine if an image showed scenario A or B. It's just fancy chicken sexing. Anything that is decisively A or B gets labeled as such. Images that are questionable get passed on to Level 2, the Human.
Then you re-train the network, rinse repeat.
I'd bet more American flags are burned
I bet more American flags are burned by veterans and Boy Scouts than at all colleges combined.
They found HIM then they
How did they find HIM? Did he put his name in the AB source code?
then they figured out where to get him
"Hey locals, you know of anyone that has a stupid amount of money in the area"?
Would it have been as easy to find him if he wasn't flaunting $12M+ in assets?
if they know who to arrest
How did they figure that out?
Did his passport say "AlphaBay Founder"?
Thai authorities said they'd seized four Lamborghini cars and three upmarket residences with a combined value of $11.7m (400 million Thai Baht). US authorities had apparently been seeking to extradite Cazes at the time of his death.
This guy could have lead a very comfortable life bouncing around the globe traveling, occasionally logging in to make sure things were running smoothly and shifting money out.
1. Coding is a safe job. White Collar jobs in general do not got a lot of support to be unionized.
This is opposite of what a majority of people here and elsewhere claim about it.
2. Compared to these other unionized jobs, you are not normally getting walked on. Your job may suck, for the most part you are getting paid a middle class salary.
Again, constant talk about being walked on.
6. There is a huge range in skill set quality. Many unionized jobs are easily replaceable jobs. Some Entry Level coding jobs may be like this. But normally after people gain skills they tend to specialize, and become harder to replace.
That's how Unions work as well. Especially the longer you've been on a job. You're not just going to go in and replace a master pipefitter with some H1B that's never touched a pipe before.
Personally, I'll never join a union. Nothing beneficial about them anymore.
Germans would probably tend to disagree.
The UAW absolutely blows, but they're no less corrupt than the politicians and company CEOs they work with.