Coding School 'The Iron Yard' Announces Closure of All 15 Campuses (ajc.com)

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Coding School 'The Iron Yard' Announces Closure of All 15 Campuses (ajc.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Thursday July 20, 2017 @10:20AM from the difficult-decisions dept.

McGruber writes: The Iron Yard, a South Carolina-based coding school with 15 locations, announced that it plans to close all of its campuses. The four-old company posted a message on its website delivering the news: "In considering the current environment, the board of The Iron Yard has made the difficult decision to cease operations at all campuses after teaching out remaining summer cohorts." The note said the company will finish out its summer classes, including career support.

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AKA these coder camps are scams by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 10:26 · Score: 0

And they know they are going to get sued so they shut down instead.
1. Re:AKA these coder camps are scams by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 11:28 · Score: 0
  
  "they know they are going to get sued so they shut down instead."
  Like the Trump Institute and the Trump University.
2. Re:AKA these coder camps are scams by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 11:29 · Score: 0
  
  And they know they are going to get sued so they shut down instead.
  Kind of like TrumpURichDadPoorDadStyleRealestate "schools", DaytradingForex "academies", and/or other unaccredited "learning" scams... Why people continue to fall for these predatory scams is beyond me...
3. Re:AKA these coder camps are scams by Hognoxious · 2017-07-20 12:19 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  They should of wen't to a reputable school like DeFry.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
4. Re:AKA these coder camps are scams by BarbaraHudson · 2017-07-20 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  And they know they are going to get sued so they shut down instead.
  Kind of like TrumpURichDadPoorDadStyleRealestate "schools", DaytradingForex "academies", and/or other unaccredited "learning" scams... Why people continue to fall for these predatory scams is beyond me...
  People fall for them because they're desperate and they want to believe that being able to take out a "student loan" somehow is a sign the school is legit. Higher lending standards are anathema to these scams. And yes, they are scams because they don't give a realistic idea of what their job opportunities will be.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
5. Re:AKA these coder camps are scams by lucm · 2017-07-20 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  If you RTFA you'll see in the subtext, it's pretty much on the other end of the spectrum.
  
  Dodds did not respond when asked what would happen to the downtown office space at M.L.K. Jr. Drive
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
6. Re:AKA these coder camps are scams by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 00:45 · Score: 0
  
  They should of wen't to a reputable school like DeFry.
  You should have gone to a better grade school
7. Re: AKA these coder camps are scams by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  I did and I can spell whoosh.
The four-old company by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 10:27 · Score: 0

Doesn't anyone re-read their post before hitting submit?
1. Re: The four-old company by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 10:35 · Score: 0
  
  It originally read "four year old" but the Slashdot editors fixed it.
Happy Thursday from The Golden Shower by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 10:30 · Score: 0

Thank you for allowing me to piss all over you!
Pissing on Slashdot at the Party! Thank you for being a dork.
My Golden Urine washes over you like rivers of Urine.
Bootcamp bubble popped... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 10:38 · Score: 1

but all education is hurting. I work in "traditional" higher ed, and our enrollment is down too. Basically, the trump economy is so damn good that people can get jobs without having to pay the education shakedown first. Bad for bootcamps and middle ranking state schools, but great for workers.
1. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Darinbob · 2017-07-20 10:50 · Score: 2
  
  This place appeared to not teach general coding, but was focused on web development. It's not the equivalent of even a trade school. I suspect it's most useful for people who are already able to program but who want a crash course in web development. But it was the current fashion to panic that we don't have enough coders, and that everyone from kindergarteners to grandmas should be learning to "code", which created a market opportunity.
2. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by ShanghaiBill · 2017-07-20 11:06 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  I suspect it's most useful for people who are already able to program but who want a crash course in web development.
  If you already know coding, you can learn webdev in a few days from free on-line tutorials or maybe a $20 book from Amazon.
  
  everyone from kindergarteners to grandmas should be learning to "code"
  Nearly everyone can benefit from coding. I have written many Google Sheets triggers, plugins for Quickbooks, etc. for friends and relatives. These are usually a dozen or so lines of Javascript, and maybe a few regexes. If you can code, this is trivial, but if you can't then you are stuck.
  All of these people took algebra in high school. None of them have used algebra, even once, since HS. So it is silly that our schools teach algebra and not coding ... and please don't say "You need algebra to understand coding" because that is patently false. I have taught 4th graders to code, and they certainly haven't learned algebra.
3. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by MightyMartian · 2017-07-20 11:21 · Score: 1
  
  So when they say "coding school", what they really mean is "diploma mill/student loan scam".
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
4. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Bing+Tsher+E · 2017-07-20 11:39 · Score: 1
  
  If they had taken 'coding' instead of algebra in high school, they'd have forgotten it since then. Sadly, the truth is it doesn't matter what people study in HS, they forget it quickly unless it directly applies to their job afterwards.
5. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Hognoxious · 2017-07-20 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  Even if they hadn't, whatever they'd been coding in would be obsolete.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
6. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by ShanghaiBill · 2017-07-20 13:01 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Even if they hadn't, whatever they'd been coding in would be obsolete.
  I went to college 35 years ago, and learned C, along with data structures, algorithms, and TCP/IP networking.
  Amount of what I learned that is now obsolete: 0%.
7. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by I'm+New+Around+Here · 2017-07-20 13:45 · Score: 1
  
  You still use Class A networks in your CIDR work?
  
  --
  If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
8. Re: Bootcamp bubble popped... by Zero__Kelvin · 2017-07-20 15:23 · Score: 1
  
  Ah, yes, making America great again by popularizing the phrase "Education Schmeducation". Thanks Donnie T-Bag!
  
  --
  Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
9. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Darinbob · 2017-07-20 15:30 · Score: 1
  
  I use algebra all the time as a professional programmer. Even more complex math*. Programming is hard and requires domain knowledge. But algebra? Why wouldn't they use it? You need algebra I to learn it to learn geometry, calculus, etc. You need geometry to do UI design. You need algebra to deal with circuits. Sure you don't need to remember the details of the quadratic equation, but you need to have learned this stuff so that you can learn other more complicate stuff. Even if someone wants to be an English major and write best selling novels for a living, the algebra helps you figure out how many dollars you're making for every page you wrote and how to invest your profits wisely.
  *) seriously, people should learn how floating point works before attempting to use floating point, I have seen so many boneheaded errors as if the programmer assumed there was some sort of infinite precision engine behind them. But you won't understand floating point if you never took an algebra class.
10. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Darinbob · 2017-07-20 15:37 · Score: 1
  
  Back then when you learned something in college it was about concepts, not petty details that change every few years. Thus learning the prinicples behind networking are still viable today. Queueing theory is still a vital tool, congestion is still a problem. But sheesh, 35 years ago IPv4 was already old, and it's still the dominant network today.
11. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Darinbob · 2017-07-20 15:42 · Score: 1
  
  But, you learn A so that you can learn B, and you learn B so that you can learn C. Maybe you forget details about A but at least you've learned C.
  Think of education as exercise for the brain. So what if you forget what you learned if it made your brain stronger?
12. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by skids · 2017-07-20 15:59 · Score: 2
  
  If you already know coding, you can learn webdev in a few days from free on-line tutorials or maybe a $20 book from Amazon.
  Not that this place actually taught it, I dunno, but this is no longer true. Proper web development these days involves learning to integrate tons of really bad declarative "code" from conflicting committee-designed standards together in a way that runs on tons of different poorly or only partialy implemented browsers and then integrating that with whatever flavor of backend was popular back when your predecessor implemented the last backend refactor. A good web developer knows a crapton about a lot of really awful software, and has to constantly jam more crappy knowlege into their head, plus suffer the constant discouragement of watching something you spent weeks learning cold become obselete every week. And get paid crap. And deal with customers/bosses who want things they can't even describe. I have a lot of respect for the guys who tough those positions out... not all of them are smart, but they tend to be motivated and energetic, because they have to be.
  But.. knowing coding you can at least still develop basic non-"webscale" UIs using a mostly-compatible subset of browser features. So you're in a heck of a lot better position than someone trying to pick it up cold.
  
  --
  Someone had to do it.
13. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by LostMyBeaver · 2017-07-20 17:57 · Score: 1
  
  You don't need algebra to code, but consider https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/68026042/ which is a (not so shitty) Q-Bert clone I wrote while sitting in my daughter's 'Summer of Code' with Scratch class. It could have been done without much Algebra, and for the most part, I don't use much Algebra in the code. I do however make use of discrete mathematics... quite heavily. And to use discrete mathematics, you can be the person who says "I ain't got no pizza", then try to solve your problem because the person you told is confused and is waiting for pizza. Or you can be a person who learns things like boolean algebra and things like Demorgan's theorum and be a programmer.
  
  As for learning online... I am a semi-proficient programmer and when it came time to learn web technologies, I watched 40 hours of Microsoft Virtual Academy over Christmas vacation one year and then read a few hundred blogs and stack exchange articles. I would never ever ever call myself a web developer though. I am perfectly capable of writing web applications now, but I'm more of a codec, operating system, compiler developer. Web developer, I think that I'll leave that to other people. It's too messy and I wonder if the word caustic would be suitable.
  
  Yes, nearly everyone can benefit from coding.... but people need to learn where they fit. I am working on an analogy in terms of Legos for this stuff
  
  Are you :
  a) The guy who designs the next Lego technics sports car with sleek sides, differential gears, front and rear shocks, v8 engine, etc?
  b) Are you the guy he calls when a) is looking for a premade design for a steering gear box?
  c) Are you the guy which a) or b) calls when they need a custom piece designed to make all their stuff come together?
  d) Are you the guy c) calls when he needs a compression mold designed to stamp the new pieces
  e) Are you the guy d) calls when he needs hydraulics added to the mold for supplying an additional axis to the mold.
  
  Programmers are the same.
  
  Where you might use a regex to pluck a value from a file, and it will work 95% of the time and you can handle it by hand when it doesn't. I instead will write a domain specific language parser like https://github.com/darrenstarr/cDayZeroDeploy/blob/master/HelperScripts/parseMOF.ps1 because it will work right 99.999% of the time and is the right tool for the job. You would use my code for reading MOF files and there's a chance you wouldn't know what to do with the abstract syntax tree, so you would send an issue or discussion asking "How would I read this value" and I'd answer.
  
  Consider that what is in the file is a hand coded recursive descent parser for reading MOF files in PowerShell. I started by writing a parser library which would allow matching text and storing state information on a stack (chose a stack because it's the right tool... to know it's the right tool, you need algebra). Then I wrote the parser as a pseudo-PEG grammar (100% algebra), then I coded the types for the abstract syntax tree, then I manually implemented each PEG rule as code.
  
  To be fair, the code took about 45 minutes to 2 hours to write... depending on how you measure it. The comments took about 4 days to get where I wanted them.
  
  So... yes, you absolutely need algebra to be anything other than the most primitive of coders. There's absolutely no negotiating this. And you can learn coding any time you want to. But algebra is best to learn (the first time) when you're young. Then you're free to forget it, but the synapses have aligned by that point to make it possible to learn it again later.
  
  Now the real issue is... how many people actually learn Algebra?
  
  I know that hundreds of millions (if not billions) of people are forced to study quadratic equations at some point in school. It is by far one of the most useful types of math the students can learn. Would 1% of 1% of 1% of the people who learn it be able to use it for anything?
  
  I needed to buy click-together floor boards f
14. Re: Bootcamp bubble popped... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 17:57 · Score: 0
  
  Vote Hillary for MOAR WAR!!!1!!
15. Re: Bootcamp bubble popped... by Zero__Kelvin · 2017-07-20 18:06 · Score: 1
  
  I believe you mean MOOPS
  
  --
  Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
16. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by ShanghaiBill · 2017-07-20 18:12 · Score: 1
  
  You need geometry to do UI design.
  What is taught in a geometry class that is relevant to laying out a webpage? Do you use Euclid's axioms to properly pad a text field?
  
  algebra helps you figure out how many dollars you're making for every page you wrote and how to invest your profits wisely.
  No it doesn't. That is just arithmetic.
17. Re: Bootcamp bubble popped... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 18:51 · Score: 0
  
  Offering coding (which is a good idea) and requiring it (not such a good idea) are two very different things. Math is a requirement, but depending on their proficiency level, not all students take algebra. Similarly, not everyone has the proficiency to code. Making it a required course would not pay the magical dividends that Silicon Valley imagines, that's just flat-out idiocy.
18. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 18:57 · Score: 0
  
  High school algebra one is just arithmetic for the most part, only using unknown values to be solved for.
19. Re: Bootcamp bubble popped... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 22:23 · Score: 0
  
  Were you triggered by google shit? What are you, a scat pervert german scheisse?
20. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Hognoxious · 2017-07-20 23:35 · Score: 1
  
  I work in "traditional" higher ed, and our enrollment is down too.
  
  Is that necessarily a bad thing? While I understand that education and vocational training aren't the same thing, shaking out a few Klingon Studies and Underwater Basketweaving courses wouldn't be a great loss - even to the students taking them.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
21. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Hognoxious · 2017-07-20 23:38 · Score: 0
  
  Did they teach reading comprehension in college?
  See, the article is about coder mills and this branch is about highschool.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
22. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by jon3k · 2017-07-21 01:41 · Score: 1
  
  Still important to know what that is, I've seen RIPv1 running in some strange places.
23. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 03:40 · Score: 0
  
  Well, gee, the standard you refer to was written in 1981, so 36 years ago and by your standards for standards, already old at ONE YEAR OLD.
  And first deployed at 34 years ago in ARPANET.
  So, you're just another Slashdot moron.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPv4
24. Re:Bootcamp bubble popped... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 03:59 · Score: 0
  
  this is soooooo true, but fucking coders are too stupid to understand it, so they think that the computer as an infinite precision engine built in...
25. Re: Bootcamp bubble popped... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 07:03 · Score: 0
  
  I use algebra all the time. When I see an ad that says 20% off, I figure out how much it's going to cost me. That's algebra. X - .2X = NewPrice
26. Re: Bootcamp bubble popped... by ShanghaiBill · 2017-07-21 08:17 · Score: 1
  
  That's algebra. X - .2X = NewPrice
  No it isn't. That is just 3rd grade arithmetic.
27. Re: Bootcamp bubble popped... by ncc74656 · 2017-07-21 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  That's algebra. X - .2X = NewPrice
  
  No it isn't. That is just 3rd grade arithmetic.
  
  3rd-graders in your neck of the woods must be significantly brighter than most if you can hand them the equation above and ask them to "solve for X." IIRC, 3rd-grade math introduced multiplication and kept drilling addition and subtraction with multi-digit integers. Division isn't even on the radar, let alone fractions, non-integer numbers, or any of the other concepts brought up before you take your first algebra course in 8th grade at the earliest.
  
  --
  20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
28. Re: Bootcamp bubble popped... by ShanghaiBill · 2017-07-21 13:48 · Score: 1
  
  3rd-graders in your neck of the woods must be significantly brighter than most if you can hand them the equation above and ask them to "solve for X."
  Except the use of "X" is entirely superfluous. There is no reason whatsoever to write such a simple calculation as an algebraic equation.
  If you want to add 2+2, you can write X+X=Y, and solve for Y when the domain is fixed at 2. How many 3rd graders can solve that equation? Not many, but that that doesn't mean they don't know 2+2=4.
Re:Happy Thursday from The Golden Girls! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 10:39 · Score: 0

just going on memory here...but isn't it "you're a pal and a confidant"?
The four-old company? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 10:41 · Score: 0

What is a four-old company?
1. Re:The four-old company? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 11:04 · Score: 1
  
  It's twice as bad as too-old.
Making people code is sadism. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 10:46 · Score: 0

I'm a total geek/nerd/no-lifer, and even *I* hate it. Imagine what it's like for beautiful kids who have friends and a life... sheer torture.
1. Re:Making people code is sadism. by CaptainDork · 2017-07-20 11:10 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  This.
  I've been fielding questions about, "Should my kids learn to code?"
  I counter with, "Should your kid learn to play the piano?"
  I point out that for any track, only a few kids will excel, a few more will be mediocre, and most will come to hate the goddam piano or coding and the asshats who tortured them.
  Kids should be to coding to see if they have the aptitude and hunger for it.
  If not, hand them a guitar.
  If that's not their thing, try dancing, then the sciences, woodworking, metalworking, canoeing, track, other sports ...
  Find out what they are good at and encourage them.
  As for code, it's not suitable for any except the exceptional.
  
  --
  It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
2. Re:Making people code is sadism. by networkBoy · 2017-07-20 11:19 · Score: 1
  
  isn't that the point of childhood? to discover what interests you?
  
  --
  whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
3. Re:Making people code is sadism. by MightyMartian · 2017-07-20 11:26 · Score: 1
  
  I can see the value of some introductory coding courses, enough that you could build a Word or Excel macro. Mind you, one of the worst coding jobs I ever had was "fixing" a PHP-based web app written by an "amateur" (and I use the word loosely) coder who seemed to barely know what functions were. It was just a mass of PHP spaghetti code pages with inconsistent variable naming and non-existent indenting. I've seen similar bad coding in MS Access applications.
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
4. Re:Making people code is sadism. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 11:32 · Score: 0
  
  > one of the worst coding jobs I ever had was "fixing" a PHP-based web app written by an "amateur"
  > (and I use the word loosely)
  > It was just a mass of PHP spaghetti code pages with inconsistent variable naming and non-existent indenting.
  So...like an amateur wrote it. No need to use the word loosely when that's specifically what it implies.
5. Re:Making people code is sadism. by Hognoxious · 2017-07-20 12:27 · Score: 1
  
  Crazy idea: perhaps he was being ironic?
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
6. Re:Making people code is sadism. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 12:42 · Score: 0
  
  one of the worst coding jobs I ever had was "fixing" (and I use the word loosely) a PHP-based web app written by an amateur
  FTFY
7. Re:Making people code is sadism. by I'm+New+Around+Here · 2017-07-20 13:47 · Score: 1
  
  Most kids nowadays stop at the "mooching off parents" attempt. It's right after guitars.
  
  --
  If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
8. Re:Making people code is sadism. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 16:56 · Score: 0
  
  Self aggrandizement.
  Coding doesn't require any exceptional talent. You just need to be a little above average in rational thought.
  It falls far short of the talent required for the more traditional engineering disciplines, let alone the sciences and math.
  And, no, Coding is not math.
  Coding is fit for being taught in trade school. That doesn't mean all coders are good coders, just like all carpenters are not good carpenters. You have to learn good design principles and acquire some skill through observing experienced coders and through practice.
9. Re:Making people code is sadism. by LordHighExecutioner · 2017-07-20 19:10 · Score: 1
  
  This is true only if they were forced to code in PHP.
10. Re:Making people code is sadism. by thegarbz · 2017-07-20 19:21 · Score: 1
  
  I counter with, "Should your kid learn to play the piano?"
  I don't think that's a fair comparison. Knowing how to play the piano is not a transferable skill outside of music. It is something of personal interest.
  Yet basic coding, even if it's just writing a short script is transferable to business, engineering, accounting, all fields of science and technology, and increasingly relevant to trades too. The number of people who come to me because the button on their spreadsheet is not working when it only runs 5 lines of VBA and they don't know what those lines mean or why the problem is that when they deleted a column the issue is that [A5] no longer points to the right place is incredible.
  Much like basic algebra can solve a whole lot of real world problems such as figuring out what continuously consumable item is cheaper to purchase. You may not know you're doing algebra, but you're doing algebra.
11. Re:Making people code is sadism. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 23:50 · Score: 0
  
  Someone needs to tie you you and beat the living shit out of you so that you understand the difference between sadism and learning to do something you don't enjoy.
12. Re:Making people code is sadism. by jon3k · 2017-07-21 01:42 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, and the responsibilities of parents to help enable it.
13. Re:Making people code is sadism. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 03:28 · Score: 0
  
  The point of childhood is to make it to adulthood alive with knowledge gained via the guidance of adults in your life.
14. Re:Making people code is sadism. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 04:50 · Score: 0
  
  Knowing how to play the piano is not a transferable skill outside of music.
  No other activity makes use of finger and foot dexterity? How about well developed kinesthetic and aural sense? Perhaps you meant it isn't transferable to the very short list of professions that you mentioned? I'd still disagree, but at least that wouldn't be as obviously wrong.
15. Re: Making people code is sadism. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 05:57 · Score: 0
  
  Well that's semi bleak..
16. Re:Making people code is sadism. by CaptainDork · 2017-07-21 06:49 · Score: 1
  
  Right.
  I'm 71 and I remember back in the late 50s and early 60s, every high school graduate who went on to college went to engineering.
  Only those few predisposed graduated.
  The others wasted time and money.
  The few who did graduate mostly sucked and got jobs looking at instruments on the units here at one of the local refineries.
  Fads come and go.
  Talent is forever, and very picky.
  
  --
  It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Re:Happy Thursday from The Golden Girls! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 10:56 · Score: 0

thatsthejoke.jpg
Clarification, please ... by CaptainDork · 2017-07-20 11:12 · Score: 1

... what is the current environment?

In considering the current environment, ...

--
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
1. Re:Clarification, please ... by dasgoober · 2017-07-20 11:16 · Score: 1
  
  Free online tutorials, q/a forums like StackOverflow, Youtube posts.
2. Re:Clarification, please ... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 11:31 · Score: 0
  
  Free online tutorials, q/a forums like StackOverflow, Youtube posts.
  StackOverflow? Youtube? You have got to be kidding! That's like the blind leading the blind only worse. More like the deaf, dumb, and blind taking wildly drunken guesses.
3. Re:Clarification, please ... by BarbaraHudson · 2017-07-20 11:33 · Score: 1
  
  ... what is the current environment?
  
  In considering the current environment, ...
  Lack of loans for desperate people who think that they can learn how to be a crappy web developer and rake in the big bucks.
  They're supposed to offer career counselling for the final cohort - how much do you want to bet it boils down to "learn a trade"?
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
4. Re:Clarification, please ... by plopez · 2017-07-20 12:29 · Score: 1
  
  that sounds like Congress
  
  --
  putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
5. Re:Clarification, please ... by dasgoober · 2017-07-20 13:27 · Score: 1
  
  It would take someone versed in the subject to realize that, but they're not versed in the subject matter; that's why they're learning.
6. Re:Clarification, please ... by I'm+New+Around+Here · 2017-07-20 13:49 · Score: 1
  
  This one is very helpful.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
  
  --
  If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
7. Re:Clarification, please ... by Hognoxious · 2017-07-21 01:52 · Score: 1
  
  By the look of it, I'd say it's usenet.
  
  ... what is the current environment?
  
  In considering the current environment, ...
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Who in their right mind by rsilvergun · 2017-07-20 11:25 · Score: 1

would go to a coding school? Coding schools churn out code monkeys. There's nothing wrong with that but there are damn few code monkey jobs to go around between outsourcing and H1-Bs. You're typically competing with kids rocking real degrees (e.g. a C.S. degree from a State University). You're better off saving your money and spending time on a git hub account.

--
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
1. Re:Who in their right mind by Hognoxious · 2017-07-21 01:33 · Score: 2
  
  Long shot I know, but how about someone wanting to learn a trade?
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
"Our Journey" by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 11:27 · Score: 0

At least it wasn't an incredible journey.
Seems the scam has run its course by gweihir · 2017-07-20 11:29 · Score: 3, Informative

And the stream of victims is drying up now. Good.

--
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
1. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by BarbaraHudson · 2017-07-20 12:27 · Score: 2
  
  And the stream of victims is drying up now. Good.
  Wishful thinking, I'm afraid. There will be other scams, other victims (even some of the same victims). When people want to believe something, proof to the contrary is ignored, or all too often, not even looked for. Just look at all the people who are dependent on Obamacare who want it killed.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
2. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by gweihir · 2017-07-20 16:58 · Score: 1
  
  I was talking about the stream of victims for this particular scam, of course. Scams will always be around, and so will be people falling for them. But the "easily learn to code" scam is hurting society as a whole far more than other scams, because it holds back the development of coding as an engineering task that is difficult, needs talent, needs a real education and needs to be paid well. Before we reach that, software will continue to suck, and that comes with huge costs for society.
  
  --
  Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
3. Re: Seems the scam has run its course by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 21:12 · Score: 0
  
  This is informative +3? It's one sentence with nothing to back it up....
4. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by Hognoxious · 2017-07-20 23:08 · Score: 1
  
  No doubt some around here will blame the victims - I won't name names - but it's a special kind of meanness to prey on those who are genuinely trying to better themselves.
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
5. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by BarbaraHudson · 2017-07-21 02:24 · Score: 1
  
  No doubt some around here will blame the victims - I won't name names - but it's a special kind of meanness to prey on those who are genuinely trying to better themselves.
  And yet the victims do have to share in the blame. They didn't do even the most cursory of checks, because they were blinded by the idea of making a living without investing any hard work.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
6. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by Hognoxious · 2017-07-21 02:31 · Score: 1
  
  Citation for "without investing any hard work".
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
7. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by BarbaraHudson · 2017-07-21 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  It's not the schools that are holding back coding as an engineering task that is difficult, needs talent, needs a real education, and needs to be paid.
  This is what happens to any field where the barrier to entry becomes lower thanks to progress. Today anyone can write software, be a journalist, make movies, etc.
  The failure of the people coming from these schools isn't going to affect the course of software development, because they won't get hired for anything important. The software that already sucks will continue to suck regardless of whether these people exist or not.
  Coders are a commodity that will be replaced within a generation by AI, so it's all going to be irrelevant in the medium term. AI is going to have huge costs for society. It's already removing entry-level jobs in many fields, making it harder to get that crucial "first job", as well as removing fall-back jobs during any industry-wide contraction.
  Eventually the only people who will be able to code will be those who are retired or those on benefits. The first will have experience and be scratching their own itch, and the second will have all the time in the world to learn, but again just to scratch their own itch because AI will be focused on extracting value from anything potentially profitable.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
8. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by BarbaraHudson · 2017-07-21 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  From personal experience. I've worked with a few of these monkeys who were taken on temporarily for "training purposes" to finish their 1-year course. One didn't even know how to use a mouse after 9 months. The only one I'm able to track down still hasn't found work in the field, and he was the best of the bunch. He actually did study on his own - he already knew how to set up a linux vm before he took the class. The rest obviously just sat in class and got passed based on attendance.
  A decade before that I had to interview candidates from the predecessor to those courses. Some of them actually had some smarts and had obviously put in effort. Some, not most. The same as all the resumes I've seen since, some actually put in the effort to learn, others just coasted and didn't know sh*t after graduation.
  My guess is it's probably the same everywhere - you've got the bench-warmers who just want to coast through with minimal effort who think they're owed brownie points just for showing up, and you've got people who actually have an active interest in what they're doing and are always seeking to expand their knowledge and limits, and you've got those between the two extremes.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
9. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by gweihir · 2017-07-21 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  That "AI coder" is not going to happen anytime soon, if ever. The current attempts to do this are the 3rd (or 4th?) attempt to do so and all those before have not failed because of lack of computing power. The basic mistake is seeing coding as "commodity" and not the creative engineering task it is. Current weak AI will not do anything here, it cannot synthesize things, it can only do statistical classification. And while it is bigger and faster and that moves some problems within its grasp, coding will not be one of them, what it can fundamentally do has not changed at all in the last 2 decades or so. And strong AI (the only one with actual intelligence) is not even on the distant horizon.
  So no, that is not going to happen.
  
  --
  Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
10. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by BarbaraHudson · 2017-07-21 10:08 · Score: 1
  
  And you think engineering tasks can't be commodified, spec'ed out, and turned over to AI expert systems? Anything that can be boiled down to a system of specifications and rules can be automated. Including engineering. Doesn't need strong AI.
  Humans no longer do the design layout of the most complex cpus. It's beyond us. So we've automated it. Apply enough money (there's LOTS of money in chips) to any problem and it WILL be automated.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
11. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by gweihir · 2017-07-21 12:02 · Score: 1
  
  Wrong. And that is exactly the faulty argument used last time. Fist thing is that creating a spec that can actually be synthesized is significantly _more_ effort than directly writing code from a rough spec. Second thing is that even with an exact spec, you cannot synthesize good software for it. Seriously, have a look into the literature before claiming complete BS, and I do not mean the popular press by this.
  The money argument is pretty bogus as well and just shows you do not understand how things actually work. Chip design is not automatized because humans cannot hack it. It is automatized to be more flexible. Humans can still hack it and consistently produce better layouts than machines. They just need longer for it and for some applications that is a factor. Again, have a look into the literature. This has been well-known for something like 20 years or so and it has not changed.
  Incidentally, routing, layouting, software synthesis are all not AI tasks. They fall under "compilers".
  
  --
  Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
12. Re:Seems the scam has run its course by BarbaraHudson · 2017-07-21 15:42 · Score: 1
  
  You misunderstood. The original code will be written by humans. It will be improved over time by AI. And you're wrong about chip design. It HAS changed over the last 20 years. No team of humans can manually lay out a chip with 7 billion transistors. Not in their lifetime. That's why it's no longer done manually by humans, except for certain portions, which will become fewer as time goes on. This was true even in 2010. From an intel engineer
  
  All of the analog circuitry, arrays, and performance-sensitive parts are definitely hand-drawn (schematics) and hand laid out. We're one of the few places that actually still do this (apparently Apple does too). You can tell which parts were laid out by hand if you look at die photos.
  It's only a matter of time before they have to go full automation, as others have done.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Who in their right mind by 0100010001010011 · 2017-07-20 11:38 · Score: 1

would go to a trade school?
higher ed has loans that can't be discharged this by Joe_Dragon · 2017-07-20 11:47 · Score: 1

higher ed has loans that can't be discharged. Schools like this do not.
Who in their right mind run up loans to 100K at by Joe_Dragon · 2017-07-20 11:50 · Score: 1

Who in their right mind run up loans to 100K at University just to work at Starbucks?
1. Re:Who in their right mind run up loans to 100K at by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 12:11 · Score: 0
  
  If you went to the Iron Yard you would more likely be working at Starbucks as this facility was not accredited at all. Thus, the skills you learned here wouldn't matter and that was the issue. They would promise employment, but no one wanted to hire someone who took a 6 to 12 week coding course and had no bachelors degree or experience. It was a joke... a very large scam.
SC based Coding School by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 12:45 · Score: 1

Let's open a surfing school in Alaska next.
Or a have a Tofu eating contest in Texas...
Snow driving course in Florida?
1. Re:SC based Coding School by dasgoober · 2017-07-20 13:28 · Score: 1
  
  Abstinence course taught by your mother?
  And you're Exhibit #1
2. Re:SC based Coding School by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 13:52 · Score: 0
  
  Does anal sex count as abstinence? Cause your father has been teaching you for years.
If you want your kids to learn to code by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 18:59 · Score: 0

then perhaps you should learn to code first, it is quite a simple process.
POP - pss ssss ssss sh by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-20 21:21 · Score: 0

that's the sound of the bubble bursting.