I almost forgot. The author says that Linux doesn't have all the available plugins to enjoy the web. What plugins is he talking about? The most commonly used plugin is Flash and it has been available for a while. Java is available too and Silverlight support is close to done the last time I looked. Which magical plugins am I missing on my Linux laptop? Whatever they may be they haven't seemed to hinder me yet.
The article is deceiving on many fronts. The author states that it is "inconceivable" that the Windows 7 release date will slip past mid 2009. Why is it inconceivable when Microsoft regulary misses its release dates? In addition to that no one is really going to know how well Windows 7 actually performs on netbooks until it is released. XP is getting old and developers are slowly moving away from it while Linux will always have the latest and greatest whether it is on a netbook or a supercomputer. I think netbooks and Android phones will improve the visibility of Linux to consumers in 2009 but it will still be a long way to garner a significant desktop share from an entrenched Microsoft.
Except Islam isn't a derivative of Christianity. In fact it was much closer to Judaism. It was an adaptation of Jewish lore to the Arabic people. Much like the Jewish people, Muslims weren't looking for converts, they believed they were the chosen people. Christianity is radically different from both Islam and Judaism in that very early on the goal was to spread the religion far and wide. That's why there are so many pagan elements in Christianity. It was necessary to carry over many pagan traditions from all over the known world to convert people. Judaism and Islam were much more localized and drew from local pagan traditions only.
The point is you said users couldn't be sued and I showed a recent and relevant counter-example. No doubt SCO and Chrysler spent considerable money dealing with these nuisance suits. So we can settle the point that users can't be sued for using patented software, right?
The judge dismissed the charges with a summary judgement.
OK, right... are you stating with certainty that Mono implements nothing that Microsoft claims patent rights on? Because Microsoft hasn't disclosed their patent concerns and has signed a deal with Novell to specifically indemnify Novell's customers against their lawsuits. Why would they do that if it were valueless?
I am stating that GNOME application like Banshee do not use Microsoft libraries at all. The only thing they use is the C# language itself. This isn't a secret. Mono libraries are not dependent on Microsoft. The language is the only thing they share in common. Novell's agreement wasn't specifically for Mono, it was for a range of techonologies but it would also indemnify people who wanted to USE Mono's reimplementation of.NET, not that I have seen anyone use it for a Linux project.
GNOME has a stated policy of not using any non-ECMA libraries in their development? That would be welcome news but I haven't seen it announced.
Using the Microsoft libraries would just be stupid. It doesn't make any sense. Why would they use something like Windows.Forms when they have GTK#? Banshee and other Mono application use GNOME specific libraries. Do you not understand that?
Um, no, there are at least 83 alleged undisclosed violations in OSS that's not Linux or OpenOffice.
That doesn't negate anything I said. Mono was never specifically mentioned but the Linux kernel and OpenOffice were yet you aren't boycotting them.
Nope, those are independently developed works. The patent case is considerably harder to prosecute than a re-implementation. Samba is in roughly the same boat, except they're probably grandfathered under the DOJ terms.
You see this is why I called you clueless. Mono was independently developed also. Mono is not just a reimplementation. It just proves you don't know anything about it. Banshee and other Mono applications don't use any any reimplemented parts of.NET. The ONLY thing that is shared is C# which is licensed royalty free. The parts that were reimplemented are there only for compatibility. No Mono application needs the.NET libraries.
Yes, C#, but not the.NET libraries. If you have information that.NET is licensed under a royalty-free Open Source-style license (ala CDDL or GPL3) then please post a cite.
I never said the.NET libraries were royalty free. They don't need to be. No Mono application uses them. Your irrational fears are unfounded. If Microsoft ever threatened to sue or sued anyone over Mono they could just drop the.NET library compatibility and lose nothing because no application depends on them.
Your whole argument seems predicated on the belief that somehow Mono applications like Banshee are secretly dependent on.NET libraries. Thank god for open source. If you really believe that then just take a look at the source and realize how wrong you are. It isn't likey to happen ever either. The.NET reimplementation is second-rate to Mono's own libraries on Linux. No one in their right mind would use them over the native libraries. Learn a thing or two about Mono before you spout off more nonsense that can easly be disproved with 5 minutes of research.
I seem to recall a lot of dems screaming like banshees, nonstop, after both prior elections. In contrast, I think most republicans have generally been more calm and mature about losing this election (with the exception of a few white supremacist racists)
Not from where I'm standing. Every news article about Obama that I have read has hundrends of comments from conservatives blasting him about Acorn, Bill Ayers, "Socialism", his middle name, being Satan, etc. I'm not saying this didn't happen on the Left when Bush won but conservatives are just as bad if not worse considering the amount of bigoted responses I've read. To think conservatives seem to believe Obama's election means racism is over. It seems like they're crawling out of the woodwork now,
Really? I'm always amazed when a technology website attracts bigots. I always assumed they didn't no nuthin' 'bout 'puters. Even the moderate rightwinger Sidney McCain III admits he doesn't know how to use one and we all know Walker Bush hasn't even evolved enough to read a newspaper nevermind use a computer.
You mean like when SCO sued AutoZone and Chrysler for using their "linux patents"?
That worked out real well for them huh?
"Completely different" - by this you mean a faithful reimplementation of the.NET platform? Heck, I'll just copy from the mono website:
The Mono Project is an open development initiative sponsored by Novell to develop an open source, UNIX version of the Microsoft.NET development platform.
You are so completely clueless. Also from the Mono website:
The.NET Framework is divided in two parts: the ECMA/ISO covered technologies and the other technologies developed on top of it like ADO.NET, ASP.NET and Windows.Forms.
Mono implements the ECMA/ISO covered parts, as well as being a project that aims to implement the higher level blocks like ASP.NET, ADO.NET and Windows.Forms.
The Mono project has gone beyond both of those components and has developed and integrated third party class libraries, the most important being: Debugging APIs, integration with the Gnome platform (Accessibility, Pango rendering, Gdk/Gtk, Glade, GnomeUI), Mozilla, OpenGL, extensive database support (Microsoft only supports a couple of providers out of the box, while Mono has support for 11 different providers), our POSIX integration libraries and finally the embedded API (used to add scripting to applications and host the CLI, or for example as an embedded runtime in Apache).
Not providing a patented capability would weaken the interoperability, but it would still provide the free software / open source software community with good development tools, which is the primary reason for developing Mono.
GNOME GTK applications don't use Windows.Forms or other microsoft technologies. The.NET libraries are there for compatiblity if needed but none of the GNOME applications use them. They all use libraries created specifically for GNOME, which are NOT provided by Microsoft.
No peeps? Heck, I'll just quote Ballmer:
Ballmer was referring to his "Linux violates 235 patents" bullshit which includes the Linux kernel and OpenOffice specifically (no mention of Mono). By your logic we should all just stop using Linux and OpenOffice. What is so stupid about your argument is that C# is specifically licensed royalty free, while most of the claimed patent infringements in the Linux kernel and OpenOffice are not.
Which is lovely and may or may not contain Microsoft patents which Microsoft may or may not sue users for using (mono).
Take your tinfoil at off and educate yourself on the matter. First of all Microsoft cannot sue users of the software just like any other patent case. Secondly the only thing used by Banshee that was invented by Microsoft is the C# language and it is a standardized language. Banshee doens't require any.NET libraries, only Mono libraries which are completely different from.NET libraries. For all the bellyaching about Mono over the years Microsoft hasn't even made a peep about it and in fact has helped Moonlight along. I suppose you're waiting for the rapture too.
And when the supply is limitless due to the ability to duplicate the product endlessly, the demand alone dictates the price.
Unfortunately this is where the free market breaks down. There is no competitor that makes Windows XP operating systems so supply and demand are not even relevant becuase this requires a competitive marketplace to really work. No one is even allowed to compete in this space because of patents and other legal wranglings. This is exaclty how Microsoft became what it is today.
Why would anyone ship python 3.0 at this point when it broke backward compatibility and probably doens't work for a large number of python applications?
You might not understand why we need it, but trust me, it is needed. Not all storage device drivers are created equally, and some will happily report to the kernel that the write operation was successful even if it wasn't, and you end up with corrupted data. When Oracle operates on a trusted environment like Solaris on Sparc, this type of integrity is built in to the operating system and it's not necessary to do a read after write to verify the data was written correctly. On Linux, and other untrusted operating systems where this doesn't happen, Oracle has to do a read after write to make sure the data was written correctly. This slows things down quite a bit.
The article I read about this states that Linux is the first operating system to implement these standards, T10 PIM and DIE. It says that they are looking to implement the same technology in Windows, Solaris, and other Unixes. It also states that this is implemented both in hardware and software. In what way does this differ from Solaris/SPARC's data integrity implementation?
So, someone care to tell me why my wifi card doesn't work out of the box in Linux, and does with Windows, and care to expand on why that's OK, since the driver is "closed source".... WHY THE FUCK is it OK to have a broken OS, if you maintain Open Source with it.
Tell me about it. Why the fuck should I use an OS that doesn't support my scanner, printer, or network cards out of the box. Hell, even the chipset drivers are not installed by default. Oh...you were talking about Linux. My beef is with Windows. Practically NOTHING works out of the box after installation. I have to spend hours downloading drivers. How am I supposed to do that when the network card drivers are not installed by default? What's that? My printer and scanner are not supported AT ALL under XP but work fine with Linux. Fucking broken OS.
The "he" you refer to is me and no I am not running Ubuntu. Using NetworkManager doesn't imply using Ubuntu. Most distributions include it. If you are implying that only newbs use NM then I guess you're just an ass.
Unless its pirated, then you get what you pay for....hence all those who DON'T want to update...hell even my web machine I dont bother with any AV or slow apps on it, as I ghost it
and reinstall it every 10 days or so (in under 15 minutes) garanteeing me that I have a good computer most of the time,and when I dont , i will again very soon. (That one is not for banking!only torrent + etc.)
I know someone who has a similar routine, rebuilding their box every 30 days. Just the fact that anyone even considers that an option means that something is seriously broken with Windows. The last computer I had only ever ran Linux and I never rebuilt it in the three years that I owned it. My current machine is almost two years old now and has never been rebuilt.
This is getting out of hand but I'll make one last comment. Why does everyone assume that Ubuntu is the only distro in use? I don't use it, never have, and probably never will. Linux isn't Ubuntu. It seems that most people who have just discovered Linux love to try to answer all questions with Ubuntu specific answers that are hardly ever right anyway. I'm happy that Ubuntu has brought a lot of users to Linux but I'm sick of the Linux = Ubuntu mentality.
I think i'm just not as paranoid about security as some. This is not what my day revolves around, because it simply has not affected me, and I doubt it will any time soon.
It's attitudes like that that make the botnet world go 'round.
The vast majority of open source software that's worth a damn has been ported to Windows.
I made that point in this thread somewhere else in this thread. It's difficult for Linux to have a killer app because someone will just port it to Windows. That doesn't invalidate my point though. Users need a reason to switch but being a "better" OS isn't the reason. What classifies "better"? A lot of people would say that Apple makes a better OS than Microsoft but that hasn't helped them much. I mean who determines when it is better? Everyone has their own idea of what the OS should do and how it should do it. Windows has already had some crappy Operating Systems but that hasn't stopped them from dominating the market because people will deal with it as long as they have their applications.
You're just an idiot then. You don't need to click on FREEREGISTRYSCANNER or anything like that to get infected. In fact you can click on a link that you click everyday and get infected. The best you can do is stay up-to-date and pray for no 0 day exploits.
I'm not using Debian or a Debian derivative and I used to have my networks setup manually with network init scripts and wpa_supplicant but I thought I would join the 21st century and actually manage my networks graphically. I didn't think it was going to be such a pain in the ass to do anyting other than connect to a WiFi network via DHCP. I've been tempted to try WICD but current versions of GNOME have increasingly become dependent on NM. I can disable support for NM but then I lose all network awareness in GNOME. Anyway you look at it I lose something. If NM is going to become an integral part of Linux desktops then it needs to do more, fast. If not then desktop environments need to depend on something else for network awareness.
And while I'm at it, X sucks because configuration is a pain, direct rendering is a total hack, and instead of a nicely architected data pipeline, it's some giant tree of modules all centered on a single configuration file. Oh, unlike Windows safe-mode vga, there's no always-functional-vga failback mode.
X configuration has become incredibly easy as more things are moved out of control of the xorg.conf file, like input devices. As for a fallback mode I believe a few distros have something similar in place although I have never tried them. I've never had many issues getting X to work correctly though. DRI is getting overhauled and DRI2 should be available very soon. None of the issues you mention are an issue with X's architecture which is what most people bitch about. They always point at X as the first thing Linux needs to get rid of. The implementation could be better but it has been improving steadily since the break from XFree.
Yes, I'm saying that Linux essentially has to be perfect to get users, whereas Windows just has to work. Nobody ever said life was fair.
That's just stupid. Like I said previously in this thread it isn't ATI's drivers (amongst other just plain ridiculous ideas) that are stopping people from using Linux, especially when the free driver works. There is just no reason for most people to switch. Linux needs a "killer app".
You don't get it, do you? I personally don't care about extra session support. It isn't a factor for me. But a user who does care doesn't care that "b-b-b-but the drivers!". The user cares that it doesn't work. That's all. Whether it's your fault or ATI's fault or whoever--it doesn't matter. Your software (the "you" is generalized, of course, in this case, Linux/free OSes as a whole) appears to be at fault. You don't get the luxury of shifting blame even when you're right.
Wth your reasoning I can blame Microsoft for ATI's shitty Windows drivers. I have never seen so many damn blue screens caused by any other video card manufacturers' drivers. God damn Microsoft sucks. Why can't they fix ATI's proprietary driver?
Slashdot Mirror
I almost forgot. The author says that Linux doesn't have all the available plugins to enjoy the web. What plugins is he talking about? The most commonly used plugin is Flash and it has been available for a while. Java is available too and Silverlight support is close to done the last time I looked. Which magical plugins am I missing on my Linux laptop? Whatever they may be they haven't seemed to hinder me yet.
The article is deceiving on many fronts. The author states that it is "inconceivable" that the Windows 7 release date will slip past mid 2009. Why is it inconceivable when Microsoft regulary misses its release dates? In addition to that no one is really going to know how well Windows 7 actually performs on netbooks until it is released. XP is getting old and developers are slowly moving away from it while Linux will always have the latest and greatest whether it is on a netbook or a supercomputer. I think netbooks and Android phones will improve the visibility of Linux to consumers in 2009 but it will still be a long way to garner a significant desktop share from an entrenched Microsoft.
Except Islam isn't a derivative of Christianity. In fact it was much closer to Judaism. It was an adaptation of Jewish lore to the Arabic people. Much like the Jewish people, Muslims weren't looking for converts, they believed they were the chosen people. Christianity is radically different from both Islam and Judaism in that very early on the goal was to spread the religion far and wide. That's why there are so many pagan elements in Christianity. It was necessary to carry over many pagan traditions from all over the known world to convert people. Judaism and Islam were much more localized and drew from local pagan traditions only.
The judge dismissed the charges with a summary judgement.
I am stating that GNOME application like Banshee do not use Microsoft libraries at all. The only thing they use is the C# language itself. This isn't a secret. Mono libraries are not dependent on Microsoft. The language is the only thing they share in common. Novell's agreement wasn't specifically for Mono, it was for a range of techonologies but it would also indemnify people who wanted to USE Mono's reimplementation of .NET, not that I have seen anyone use it for a Linux project.
Using the Microsoft libraries would just be stupid. It doesn't make any sense. Why would they use something like Windows.Forms when they have GTK#? Banshee and other Mono application use GNOME specific libraries. Do you not understand that?
That doesn't negate anything I said. Mono was never specifically mentioned but the Linux kernel and OpenOffice were yet you aren't boycotting them.
You see this is why I called you clueless. Mono was independently developed also. Mono is not just a reimplementation. It just proves you don't know anything about it. Banshee and other Mono applications don't use any any reimplemented parts of .NET. The ONLY thing that is shared is C# which is licensed royalty free. The parts that were reimplemented are there only for compatibility. No Mono application needs the .NET libraries.
I never said the .NET libraries were royalty free. They don't need to be. No Mono application uses them. Your irrational fears are unfounded. If Microsoft ever threatened to sue or sued anyone over Mono they could just drop the .NET library compatibility and lose nothing because no application depends on them.
Your whole argument seems predicated on the belief that somehow Mono applications like Banshee are secretly dependent on .NET libraries. Thank god for open source. If you really believe that then just take a look at the source and realize how wrong you are. It isn't likey to happen ever either. The .NET reimplementation is second-rate to Mono's own libraries on Linux. No one in their right mind would use them over the native libraries. Learn a thing or two about Mono before you spout off more nonsense that can easly be disproved with 5 minutes of research.
Not from where I'm standing. Every news article about Obama that I have read has hundrends of comments from conservatives blasting him about Acorn, Bill Ayers, "Socialism", his middle name, being Satan, etc. I'm not saying this didn't happen on the Left when Bush won but conservatives are just as bad if not worse considering the amount of bigoted responses I've read. To think conservatives seem to believe Obama's election means racism is over. It seems like they're crawling out of the woodwork now,
Really? I'm always amazed when a technology website attracts bigots. I always assumed they didn't no nuthin' 'bout 'puters. Even the moderate rightwinger Sidney McCain III admits he doesn't know how to use one and we all know Walker Bush hasn't even evolved enough to read a newspaper nevermind use a computer.
That worked out real well for them huh?
You are so completely clueless. Also from the Mono website:
GNOME GTK applications don't use Windows.Forms or other microsoft technologies. The .NET libraries are there for compatiblity if needed but none of the GNOME applications use them. They all use libraries created specifically for GNOME, which are NOT provided by Microsoft.
Ballmer was referring to his "Linux violates 235 patents" bullshit which includes the Linux kernel and OpenOffice specifically (no mention of Mono). By your logic we should all just stop using Linux and OpenOffice. What is so stupid about your argument is that C# is specifically licensed royalty free, while most of the claimed patent infringements in the Linux kernel and OpenOffice are not.
Take your tinfoil at off and educate yourself on the matter. First of all Microsoft cannot sue users of the software just like any other patent case. Secondly the only thing used by Banshee that was invented by Microsoft is the C# language and it is a standardized language. Banshee doens't require any .NET libraries, only Mono libraries which are completely different from .NET libraries. For all the bellyaching about Mono over the years Microsoft hasn't even made a peep about it and in fact has helped Moonlight along. I suppose you're waiting for the rapture too.
Unfortunately this is where the free market breaks down. There is no competitor that makes Windows XP operating systems so supply and demand are not even relevant becuase this requires a competitive marketplace to really work. No one is even allowed to compete in this space because of patents and other legal wranglings. This is exaclty how Microsoft became what it is today.
Why would anyone ship python 3.0 at this point when it broke backward compatibility and probably doens't work for a large number of python applications?
Banshee 1.4
The article I read about this states that Linux is the first operating system to implement these standards, T10 PIM and DIE. It says that they are looking to implement the same technology in Windows, Solaris, and other Unixes. It also states that this is implemented both in hardware and software. In what way does this differ from Solaris/SPARC's data integrity implementation?
Tell me about it. Why the fuck should I use an OS that doesn't support my scanner, printer, or network cards out of the box. Hell, even the chipset drivers are not installed by default. Oh...you were talking about Linux. My beef is with Windows. Practically NOTHING works out of the box after installation. I have to spend hours downloading drivers. How am I supposed to do that when the network card drivers are not installed by default? What's that? My printer and scanner are not supported AT ALL under XP but work fine with Linux. Fucking broken OS.
No. It is a GNOME project. Most, if not all GNOME distros include it. There is also a KDE applet for it.
The "he" you refer to is me and no I am not running Ubuntu. Using NetworkManager doesn't imply using Ubuntu. Most distributions include it. If you are implying that only newbs use NM then I guess you're just an ass.
I don't consider 3-4% a healthy marketshare when Microsoft's share is around 90%.
I know someone who has a similar routine, rebuilding their box every 30 days. Just the fact that anyone even considers that an option means that something is seriously broken with Windows. The last computer I had only ever ran Linux and I never rebuilt it in the three years that I owned it. My current machine is almost two years old now and has never been rebuilt.
This is getting out of hand but I'll make one last comment. Why does everyone assume that Ubuntu is the only distro in use? I don't use it, never have, and probably never will. Linux isn't Ubuntu. It seems that most people who have just discovered Linux love to try to answer all questions with Ubuntu specific answers that are hardly ever right anyway. I'm happy that Ubuntu has brought a lot of users to Linux but I'm sick of the Linux = Ubuntu mentality.
It's attitudes like that that make the botnet world go 'round.
I made that point in this thread somewhere else in this thread. It's difficult for Linux to have a killer app because someone will just port it to Windows. That doesn't invalidate my point though. Users need a reason to switch but being a "better" OS isn't the reason. What classifies "better"? A lot of people would say that Apple makes a better OS than Microsoft but that hasn't helped them much. I mean who determines when it is better? Everyone has their own idea of what the OS should do and how it should do it. Windows has already had some crappy Operating Systems but that hasn't stopped them from dominating the market because people will deal with it as long as they have their applications.
You're just an idiot then. You don't need to click on FREEREGISTRYSCANNER or anything like that to get infected. In fact you can click on a link that you click everyday and get infected. The best you can do is stay up-to-date and pray for no 0 day exploits.
I'm not using Debian or a Debian derivative and I used to have my networks setup manually with network init scripts and wpa_supplicant but I thought I would join the 21st century and actually manage my networks graphically. I didn't think it was going to be such a pain in the ass to do anyting other than connect to a WiFi network via DHCP. I've been tempted to try WICD but current versions of GNOME have increasingly become dependent on NM. I can disable support for NM but then I lose all network awareness in GNOME. Anyway you look at it I lose something. If NM is going to become an integral part of Linux desktops then it needs to do more, fast. If not then desktop environments need to depend on something else for network awareness.
X configuration has become incredibly easy as more things are moved out of control of the xorg.conf file, like input devices. As for a fallback mode I believe a few distros have something similar in place although I have never tried them. I've never had many issues getting X to work correctly though. DRI is getting overhauled and DRI2 should be available very soon. None of the issues you mention are an issue with X's architecture which is what most people bitch about. They always point at X as the first thing Linux needs to get rid of. The implementation could be better but it has been improving steadily since the break from XFree.
That's just stupid. Like I said previously in this thread it isn't ATI's drivers (amongst other just plain ridiculous ideas) that are stopping people from using Linux, especially when the free driver works. There is just no reason for most people to switch. Linux needs a "killer app".
Wth your reasoning I can blame Microsoft for ATI's shitty Windows drivers. I have never seen so many damn blue screens caused by any other video card manufacturers' drivers. God damn Microsoft sucks. Why can't they fix ATI's proprietary driver?