actually... there is a little bit of gray area in the Novell SCO case as to who owns what. The contract said that Novell retains the copyrights but SCO has all rights that they may need to enforce the licensing.
My understanding is that SCO is the reseller for Unix licenses but Novell was still holding the copyrights. SCO is just a salesman for Unix and Novell gets the bulk of any Unix sales while SCO gets what appears to be a commission. Since SCO is the only person selling the licenses they needed to have some sort of weight behind their authority to sell licenses which included giving them enough rights to enforce the licensing.
This makes sense.... If I go into a contract with you to become the exclusive seller of your widgets it is important to me to have rights to protect my exclusivity. You may not care if someone else starts selling knock offs of your widgets but I do and I need the legal weight to be able to protect my investments (employees, time and other resources).
I don't think it will come out that SCO owns Unix but it may be possible that SCO does have enough rights to protect the business that Novell gave it. Which may mean that SCO does have the right to revoke IBM's license, at least under some circumstances.
There seemed to be some inconsistencies in the contract and I'd be interested to see how it turns out. Something I read implied that the rights SCO did attain were in an ammendment to the contract that Novell didn't know about? Who knows. I just want this to be overwith and see the idiots on both sides finally shut up.
He said what his opinion on the most important thing about F/OSS and what he thinks most people like about F/OSS is the price, which is free.
I'm sorry... but he's right. Do you think that most of the people are adopting open source software because it's better? No, they're doing it because it saves cost in the majority of cases. Look at that story submitted just a few below this one. If software came out that was very restrictive but cheaper with a lower tco and a complete win-win-out-of-the-box-market-penetrating-razzle-d azzle whatever people would jump on it. For people that build ON free software, freedom matters more, for people that build WITH free software, price matters more. In the corporate world, most people build WITH free software. This is the market that Sun's COO is addressing.
The majority of Java developers that Builder UK spoke to at the JavaOne conference on Tuesday were not concerned whether or not Sun made its implementation of Java available under an open source licence.
This is just another story people are using to bash Sun. Just like the whole JDS thing. Sun made a lot of moves to try and push a linux desktop. They went a little bit with it even though everyone was bashing them for it. Then they woke up and realized... The corporate world isn't ready for linux on the desktop yet. Boo em when they're trying to push linux on the desktop and then Boo em when they stop.
1. Better out of the Box support for web applications. The web tools are more mature and capable than what Eclipse is working on. You don't have to pay for things like a JSP editor or bother to download it.
2. Out of the box EJB support that is good.
3. Out of the box webservices support.
4. A much better, more mature GUI Editor that's going to get even better in 4.2. (Not sure if VE is in eclipse 3.1)
5. Cool auto comment tool
6. Bundled Tomcat and Full J2EE compliant app server.
8. This one is subjective but to me... i don't find the interface as cluttered or ugly as Eclipse. Obviously other's disagree. Also even the the windows are not native, the layout is much closer to what native dialogs look like on windows. With Eclipse, the dialog boxes just seem weird. Error messages look and feel like they don't belong, etc.
Just in case someone reads this before you get modded down... let me explain why you're wrong.
This was a database bottleneck, not an application bottleneck that I was able to overcome by making some modifications to the application.
This application has a lot of writes. An application with a lot of writes doesn't perform that well with MyISAM tables than a mostly read only application and it doesn't handle the type of transaction support other parts need. InnoDB is probably better better because it has row level locking but it's slower overall than MyISAM tables. I haven't benchmarked PostgreSQL vs InnoDB but I've seen other results and PostgreSQL is faster at writing than InnoDB. MyISAM uses table level locking so if you have writes and selects at the same time on the same table you're going to slow down. By implementing the verification logic as triggers the development was a lot cleaner and faster. Don't think you can do this with MySQL or transactions or stored procedures. MySQL is nice but when your application starts to have as many inserts/updates as it does selects you're going to see where the simple locking mechanism slows you down. Then multiply that by 10 for each replicated server.
Don't know where you get your 35-40 second number from but under simulated heavy load response the response times for both were in the millisecond range. My own tests show I can get better performance from Tomcat 5.5 vs apache/php without having to play any tricks.
Similar but not quite the same. Forking is slower and more resource intensive than creating a new thread. If you're running on the 2.6 linux kernel starting a thread is about twice as fast and forking.
I haven't used Toad for a while as I've been using PostgreSQL more now and haven't used Oracle in a while. So I can't compare the current versions of Toad to other products. PGAdmin3, which installs if you install PostgreSQL on windows. Probably not as good as Toad but you can do most of the things you'd want to. Also tools like CaseStudio are good modelling tools that work with PostgreSQL. I'm still looking for a good open source data modelling tool that can reverse and forward engineer with PostgreSQL.
Ok you quoted something from php.net. Not saying it's wrong but can you quote something from a third party unbiased source?
"I'm quite certain that JSP/Tomcat can be just as insecure if you code it wrong. Same with ASP. Or, gasp, anything."
Depends how you look at it. In JSP/Tomcat you don't have to worry about encoding/decoding input except in special cases. The appserver does it for you so you don't have to worry about these types of attacks. Languages like Java, C# and Managed C have some built in safty nets to prevent things like buffer overflows as well. SQL Injection attacks can be a problem if you're not using PreparedStatement but good coding practices shouldn't let the user have that much access to the sql statement to begin with in most cases.
Have a look at how mustang is being developed and how the JCP works. Java is about as open as you can get without being osi approved. Also, the world existed just fine before open/free software came about. Many corporations/people out there still depend on proprietary software to keep their business going because there isn't a free/open equivalent to everything out there.
Open/Free software is good but trying to label java as "proprietary" and pretending it's a bad word is a weak argument. Try reading this.
ok... here's one... I have one web application where i record input to a database. It's not important for the user to know that the write was successful and I have a bit of logic to check for duplicates among other things. I don't need to tell the user that the data they submitted was bad so I just kick off a seperate thread so the user doesn't have to wait for the write to happen before they get their next page. This type of asynchronous writing sped up the response time of the application quite a bit. If I feel I need to increase performance even more I can have it running as a seperate thread controller with a pool of threads. This wouldn't increase response time but should cut down on server resources if I need to. The implementation I chose was very easy to code and the user experience greatly enhanced. This isn't anything special in a web application or the appserver. Just plain java threads.
As far as I know you can't do the same thing in PHP and if you can probably not as easily. The only way I can think of is to write it as a C/C++ module that you call from PHP but most people wouldn't consider doing that in PHP.
Agreed. It's nice to see AMD take action. I'm tired of the Intel Inside tone on tv:)
For those that are interested in reading a bit more there are better articles out there such as this one It's a bit negative on AMD but the infor is better.
The Opteron is featured throughout the lawsuit. AMD accuses Intel of paying IBM to stop marketing servers with Opteron chips. The company also claims IBM executives said they could not support AMD without facing retribution from Intel. The lawsuit claims that Honda Motor (nyse: HMC - news - people ) specifically asked server supplier NEC (nasdaq: NIPNY - news - people ) to design an Opteron-based model, but that NEC inexplicably shelved the product, never marketing it to any other customers.
Hard to believe that one could bully a big company like IBM. Maybe monopolists like to stick together.
i saw a video interview... at least that's where I remember i saw the info. the way the product came about is that some developers at sun wanted a sparc laptop to be able to do their work remotely. Maybe not so much that a sparc notebook is awesome for everyone but if you're specifically developing for sparc, it might be a nice mobile workstation.
What Sun is probably trying to do is say, hey we have laptops too. Not a bad thing in my opinion. The Ultra 20 at $895 is probably the most interesting bit. They have other Opteron workstations but this is by far the cheapest.
I don't think Apple is big enough to buy Sun either. If anything would happen it would be more like a merger. Apple doesn't have that much cash on hand and it would have to involve a stock transaction. My mistake on revenue. I was looking at quarterly data by mistake.
I'm not sure how a larger P/E figures into being a worthy buyer. My opinion on P/E is that it's an indicator for how much faith the market has for a company.
I'm not sure how well Sun and Apple would merge either. Not to mention having Scott McNealy and Steve Jobs under the same roof.
If someone told me that Sun was going to get bought, my first guess would be that Nokia was making the bid.
"Eventually, Java will become open source once Sun is bought, probably either by IBM or RedHat."
RedHat buying Sun? How can anyone take what you say seriously when you say something as stupid as this?
RedHat's market cap is only around 2 billion dollars. Sun still has enough cash to buy RedHat up even after spending 4.1 billion on StorageTek. RedHat's yearly revenue is only about $125,000,000. Sun's is close to $3,000,000,000. RedHat only has about $300 Million in cash and short term investments.
Sun's market cap is about $12 Billion. IBM could probably buy them but it wouldn't be cheap and their stockholders would be too happy about it because they'll be paying a large premium for what they really want, which is Java.
Best thing for IBM, RedHat and to do, is to continue to work together closely and stop all the nagging and mudslinging. The server market is big enough for IBM and Sun. The OS Market is big enough for Solaris, RedHat and AIX. They should notice that Windows server sales finally surpassed Unix sales recently and concentrate on keeping the Unix market growing as a whole, so that they don't have to fight over what crumbs MS leaves behind in the future.
"I can only interpret that as meaning "I don't mind it being slow"."
There are other interpretations of that as well. I don't find it slow. I type pretty fast (80-90wpm) and I don't have to worry about it being slow. It starts up less than 40 seconds which I think is pretty good for an application as big as NetBeans. Windows open up and redraw fast. Menus don't seem any slower than native apps. The classpath scanning it does when you first load it is annoying but I've seen the 4.2 q-builds and it looks like they took care of that by making it a background process.
Is it slower than something like textpad? Yeah, but so is any other IDE with as many features in my experience. Is it so slow that it I notice difference? No. I find lynx faster than FireFox but that doesn't make me use it more. If I need to quickly check my email from someone else's computer I'll sometimes just telnet into the pop3 server because it's a lot faster, but that's not my primary email checking method. As long as it's not starting to swap and stays mainly in real memory it runs great in my experience. Like I said, I shut down stuff I won't be using when I run it, like Outlook and at least one IM client but I still can keep PostgreSQL running as well as PGAdmin and a data modelling app as well as FireFox. This is in addition to NetBeans and Tomcat.
If I open up photoshop and start working on a bunch of images I'll have a problem with waiting for things to come out of swap but then it runs fine after that. So I just seperate my workflow and work on graphics and code seperately. The IDE makes me more productive, and making me shutdown email and im makes me even more so:) If only I had to shut off my phone:)
Before starting NetBeans, after shutting everything I usually shutdown down, I run MaxMem from AnalogX to swap out whatever isn't necessary. I used to use it on a PIII with 384Megs of Ram. That was brutal. 512Megs should be the minimum if you're going to be runing netbeans, tomcat, cvs server and a database and you want to keep a browser open. I should get some more memory but it hasn't been a priority for me. I've gone through the options and turned off a couple of modules I don't need which gives me a plenty of headroom so I don't have to worry about swapping.
I'm curious though, what is it specifically that you found slow? What type of applications are you trying to develop? What are you using instead of NetBeans/Eclipse?
I don't know that it's fair to say that Sun is completely clueless about marketting software. I remember a netcraft report that said their webserver software was still the most popular among fortune 100 companies. I think their problem is marketting their software outside large enterprises. They seem to be making some progress in that, or at least are starting to make moves in that direction.
What bother's me is that slashdot submissions like this. The article doesn't talk about open sourcing Java. The headline states they are open sourcing the app server. Seems like people intentionally post it this way to start up the old Sun isn't open sourcing Java arguments and Sun is saying one thing and doing another, when it's the submission that is wrong... not what Sun is saying.
One thing Schwartz said was...
"This is one step forward as we continue to open-source all of Sun's software assets," Schwartz said. "It's good for business. It's also good for the world."
There might be problems surrounding the Apache Harmony project. Geir Magnusson now works for IBM. When Sun talks about a fear of forking Java like Microsoft did, they aren't worried about MS now, they're worried about IBM.
" Then you missed the point. The JVM itself optimizes for you. I still fail to understand how people think they can write faster code in less time in c/c++ when java itself is just another c/c++ program that is handling many other tasks for you."
I'm not going to disagree with you that the JIT compiler provides a lot of useful optimizations during runtime and is a great thing.... but it's not the be all end all of performance.
I think the original poster was talking more along the lines of more design issues where profiling an application can help out. The JIT compiler may see you're making 1000 calls to the same method and is able to inline it, but it can't let you know you only really need to make that call once.
I use netbeans on a similar setup. Same amount of memory and a comparable processor. I don't have a problem with it being slow. I want to get more memory because running netbeans and the appserver takes up a lot of memory which means I can't run a lot of other applications at the same time. Have the same problems with eclipse. Eclipse seems to start up with less memory but doesn't take long to catch up.
The only really uggly thing I see in NetBeans is the properties editor window. I like the way it looks in the windows native look and feel. The new metal look and feel I think takes up a little bit more memory but in my opinion looks even nicer.
If you're not using Java 1.5 try it, it speeds NetBeans up a bit. Also I shut down a lot of other apps/tools when I run netbeans to free up memory. Have to do this for other non Java applications I'll be working with for a long period of time as well. Try freeing up as much memory as you can then try NetBeans. It might be worth the price of an extra stick of memory.
Slashdot Mirror
My understanding is that SCO is the reseller for Unix licenses but Novell was still holding the copyrights. SCO is just a salesman for Unix and Novell gets the bulk of any Unix sales while SCO gets what appears to be a commission. Since SCO is the only person selling the licenses they needed to have some sort of weight behind their authority to sell licenses which included giving them enough rights to enforce the licensing.
This makes sense.... If I go into a contract with you to become the exclusive seller of your widgets it is important to me to have rights to protect my exclusivity. You may not care if someone else starts selling knock offs of your widgets but I do and I need the legal weight to be able to protect my investments (employees, time and other resources).
I don't think it will come out that SCO owns Unix but it may be possible that SCO does have enough rights to protect the business that Novell gave it. Which may mean that SCO does have the right to revoke IBM's license, at least under some circumstances.
There seemed to be some inconsistencies in the contract and I'd be interested to see how it turns out. Something I read implied that the rights SCO did attain were in an ammendment to the contract that Novell didn't know about? Who knows. I just want this to be overwith and see the idiots on both sides finally shut up.
I'm sorry... but he's right. Do you think that most of the people are adopting open source software because it's better? No, they're doing it because it saves cost in the majority of cases. Look at that story submitted just a few below this one. If software came out that was very restrictive but cheaper with a lower tco and a complete win-win-out-of-the-box-market-penetrating-razzle-d azzle whatever people would jump on it. For people that build ON free software, freedom matters more, for people that build WITH free software, price matters more. In the corporate world, most people build WITH free software. This is the market that Sun's COO is addressing.
Just have a look at this article that says:
This is just another story people are using to bash Sun. Just like the whole JDS thing. Sun made a lot of moves to try and push a linux desktop. They went a little bit with it even though everyone was bashing them for it. Then they woke up and realized... The corporate world isn't ready for linux on the desktop yet. Boo em when they're trying to push linux on the desktop and then Boo em when they stop.2. Out of the box EJB support that is good.
3. Out of the box webservices support.
4. A much better, more mature GUI Editor that's going to get even better in 4.2. (Not sure if VE is in eclipse 3.1)
5. Cool auto comment tool
6. Bundled Tomcat and Full J2EE compliant app server.
7. This guy's blog to read :)
8. This one is subjective but to me... i don't find the interface as cluttered or ugly as Eclipse. Obviously other's disagree. Also even the the windows are not native, the layout is much closer to what native dialogs look like on windows. With Eclipse, the dialog boxes just seem weird. Error messages look and feel like they don't belong, etc.
You whiney people always complaining about the simple stuff out there.
coding! real some do and standards about complaining stop you don't WhyCODING ISNT ABOUT STYLE ITS ABOUT GETTING YOUR THING WORKING AND IT DOESNT MATTER HOW YOU DO IT.
Cómo_es_bonito ustedEscribeNoImporta.
This was a database bottleneck, not an application bottleneck that I was able to overcome by making some modifications to the application.
This application has a lot of writes. An application with a lot of writes doesn't perform that well with MyISAM tables than a mostly read only application and it doesn't handle the type of transaction support other parts need. InnoDB is probably better better because it has row level locking but it's slower overall than MyISAM tables. I haven't benchmarked PostgreSQL vs InnoDB but I've seen other results and PostgreSQL is faster at writing than InnoDB. MyISAM uses table level locking so if you have writes and selects at the same time on the same table you're going to slow down. By implementing the verification logic as triggers the development was a lot cleaner and faster. Don't think you can do this with MySQL or transactions or stored procedures. MySQL is nice but when your application starts to have as many inserts/updates as it does selects you're going to see where the simple locking mechanism slows you down. Then multiply that by 10 for each replicated server.
Don't know where you get your 35-40 second number from but under simulated heavy load response the response times for both were in the millisecond range. My own tests show I can get better performance from Tomcat 5.5 vs apache/php without having to play any tricks.
Similar but not quite the same. Forking is slower and more resource intensive than creating a new thread. If you're running on the 2.6 linux kernel starting a thread is about twice as fast and forking.
I haven't used Toad for a while as I've been using PostgreSQL more now and haven't used Oracle in a while. So I can't compare the current versions of Toad to other products. PGAdmin3, which installs if you install PostgreSQL on windows. Probably not as good as Toad but you can do most of the things you'd want to. Also tools like CaseStudio are good modelling tools that work with PostgreSQL. I'm still looking for a good open source data modelling tool that can reverse and forward engineer with PostgreSQL.
"I'm quite certain that JSP/Tomcat can be just as insecure if you code it wrong. Same with ASP. Or, gasp, anything."
Depends how you look at it. In JSP/Tomcat you don't have to worry about encoding/decoding input except in special cases. The appserver does it for you so you don't have to worry about these types of attacks. Languages like Java, C# and Managed C have some built in safty nets to prevent things like buffer overflows as well. SQL Injection attacks can be a problem if you're not using PreparedStatement but good coding practices shouldn't let the user have that much access to the sql statement to begin with in most cases.
I dated lots of girls that had those too... I wouldn't call them programming languages either :)
Have a look at how mustang is being developed and how the JCP works. Java is about as open as you can get without being osi approved. Also, the world existed just fine before open/free software came about. Many corporations/people out there still depend on proprietary software to keep their business going because there isn't a free/open equivalent to everything out there.
Open/Free software is good but trying to label java as "proprietary" and pretending it's a bad word is a weak argument. Try reading this.
As far as I know you can't do the same thing in PHP and if you can probably not as easily. The only way I can think of is to write it as a C/C++ module that you call from PHP but most people wouldn't consider doing that in PHP.
small difference between cowardice and greed when you wind up not doing the right thing anyway
If people start doing that.... I can't see people still using MySQL :)
For those that are interested in reading a bit more there are better articles out there such as this one It's a bit negative on AMD but the infor is better.
Hard to believe that one could bully a big company like IBM. Maybe monopolists like to stick together.
Google... er... maybe yahoo around in this case... you'll find news reports of people making 50k per year click frauding google.
What Sun is probably trying to do is say, hey we have laptops too. Not a bad thing in my opinion. The Ultra 20 at $895 is probably the most interesting bit. They have other Opteron workstations but this is by far the cheapest.
how lame, that doesn't even rhyme :)
Yeah, that guy sure seems to know his shit :)
I'm not sure how a larger P/E figures into being a worthy buyer. My opinion on P/E is that it's an indicator for how much faith the market has for a company.
I'm not sure how well Sun and Apple would merge either. Not to mention having Scott McNealy and Steve Jobs under the same roof.
If someone told me that Sun was going to get bought, my first guess would be that Nokia was making the bid.
RedHat buying Sun? How can anyone take what you say seriously when you say something as stupid as this?
RedHat's market cap is only around 2 billion dollars. Sun still has enough cash to buy RedHat up even after spending 4.1 billion on StorageTek. RedHat's yearly revenue is only about $125,000,000. Sun's is close to $3,000,000,000. RedHat only has about $300 Million in cash and short term investments.
Sun's market cap is about $12 Billion. IBM could probably buy them but it wouldn't be cheap and their stockholders would be too happy about it because they'll be paying a large premium for what they really want, which is Java.
Best thing for IBM, RedHat and to do, is to continue to work together closely and stop all the nagging and mudslinging. The server market is big enough for IBM and Sun. The OS Market is big enough for Solaris, RedHat and AIX. They should notice that Windows server sales finally surpassed Unix sales recently and concentrate on keeping the Unix market growing as a whole, so that they don't have to fight over what crumbs MS leaves behind in the future.
There are other interpretations of that as well. I don't find it slow. I type pretty fast (80-90wpm) and I don't have to worry about it being slow. It starts up less than 40 seconds which I think is pretty good for an application as big as NetBeans. Windows open up and redraw fast. Menus don't seem any slower than native apps. The classpath scanning it does when you first load it is annoying but I've seen the 4.2 q-builds and it looks like they took care of that by making it a background process.
Is it slower than something like textpad? Yeah, but so is any other IDE with as many features in my experience. Is it so slow that it I notice difference? No. I find lynx faster than FireFox but that doesn't make me use it more. If I need to quickly check my email from someone else's computer I'll sometimes just telnet into the pop3 server because it's a lot faster, but that's not my primary email checking method. As long as it's not starting to swap and stays mainly in real memory it runs great in my experience. Like I said, I shut down stuff I won't be using when I run it, like Outlook and at least one IM client but I still can keep PostgreSQL running as well as PGAdmin and a data modelling app as well as FireFox. This is in addition to NetBeans and Tomcat.
If I open up photoshop and start working on a bunch of images I'll have a problem with waiting for things to come out of swap but then it runs fine after that. So I just seperate my workflow and work on graphics and code seperately. The IDE makes me more productive, and making me shutdown email and im makes me even more so :) If only I had to shut off my phone :)
Before starting NetBeans, after shutting everything I usually shutdown down, I run MaxMem from AnalogX to swap out whatever isn't necessary. I used to use it on a PIII with 384Megs of Ram. That was brutal. 512Megs should be the minimum if you're going to be runing netbeans, tomcat, cvs server and a database and you want to keep a browser open. I should get some more memory but it hasn't been a priority for me. I've gone through the options and turned off a couple of modules I don't need which gives me a plenty of headroom so I don't have to worry about swapping.
I'm curious though, what is it specifically that you found slow? What type of applications are you trying to develop? What are you using instead of NetBeans/Eclipse?
What bother's me is that slashdot submissions like this. The article doesn't talk about open sourcing Java. The headline states they are open sourcing the app server. Seems like people intentionally post it this way to start up the old Sun isn't open sourcing Java arguments and Sun is saying one thing and doing another, when it's the submission that is wrong... not what Sun is saying.
One thing Schwartz said was...
There might be problems surrounding the Apache Harmony project. Geir Magnusson now works for IBM. When Sun talks about a fear of forking Java like Microsoft did, they aren't worried about MS now, they're worried about IBM.
I'm not going to disagree with you that the JIT compiler provides a lot of useful optimizations during runtime and is a great thing.... but it's not the be all end all of performance.
I think the original poster was talking more along the lines of more design issues where profiling an application can help out. The JIT compiler may see you're making 1000 calls to the same method and is able to inline it, but it can't let you know you only really need to make that call once.
The only really uggly thing I see in NetBeans is the properties editor window. I like the way it looks in the windows native look and feel. The new metal look and feel I think takes up a little bit more memory but in my opinion looks even nicer.
If you're not using Java 1.5 try it, it speeds NetBeans up a bit. Also I shut down a lot of other apps/tools when I run netbeans to free up memory. Have to do this for other non Java applications I'll be working with for a long period of time as well. Try freeing up as much memory as you can then try NetBeans. It might be worth the price of an extra stick of memory.