Slashdot Mirror
Eclipse 3.1 Released
Jeff Myers writes "Eclipse version 3.1 was just released and is available for download. There are quite a few new and noteworthy features added in this release - including full support for Java 5.0 and improved support for developing rich client applications based on the Eclipse platform." Update: 06/28 21:03 GMT by Z : Denis emailed to request we use mirrors, as they're already getting hammered pretty hard.
With the Space Ring and Google Earth, I knew the Eclipse was coming!
Free XBox, PS2
Everything has already been overloaded at eclipse.org. TDS Internet used to be listed in their mirrors but now it isn't? Bailing out a little early aren't we?
It was almost down *before* slashdot... Mine is almost done though :)
They release a new version of their software and their primary delivery servers in Pakistan are completely unavailable.
...all of the servers eclipse uses are java powered
That was my only knock of the software. It would be so slow. William. Shatner. could. deliver. a. line. quicker.
For those who don't need a full blown IDE, just something to write java in and compile, try textpad. It is lightning quick.
But I bet with faster CPU's, eclipse is alright now. But it was so slow on a PIII 1ghz with 512 megs. So slow.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
maybe include:
...
... but seriously, you only post a short two line post on something and no details and the frickin web site is /. already so who the heck knows what it is ...
1. a short description of what it is [a better browser, a sliced bread device, a program for counting sheep]; and
2. a link to a resource page on what it is [like the basic description in detail for geeks]
Seriously, I haven't the faintest idea what Eclipse is - is it a device to crash the moon into the earth to make a [evil laugh] MILLION DOLLARS!!! - or is it the latest hamster-management software program for hamster farming?
ok, i'll be quiet
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The link gives a 404. Here is the correct one.
No torrent?
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
Eclipse has been slashdotted!
...or has slashdot been eclipsed?
[/bad humour]
Dependency hell? =>
I tried it about three weeks ago on suggestion from a friend. I'm starting my thesis work which involves modeling in C++, and I was looking for a free environment. On my box (Intel 2.0GHz, 1gig RAM) it ran pretty slow. Booted into Windows and D/L'ed the beta version of Microsoft Visual C++, it ran quicker :(
I'm not trolling, just answering the man's question. I wound up sticking with MSVC++.
-everphilski-
I'm pretty sure that the "eclipse-news.html" link in the article would tell you all about Eclipse, if it wasn't currently slashdotted to all hell.
There was netbeans and eclipse, which looked identical to me. I never could use either of them because I did not have a good enough system (PIII 1ghz with 512 megs). A friend with a slightly faster system and 1 gig of ram was able to run it.
And the learning curve to eclipse was pretty high for all the functions it had. At least that was my impression trying to run. But I gave up on Eclipse fairly quickly.
At the time, I was using textpad http://www.textpad.com/, and it was awesome for a while. But I soon found I needed more features than just compiling and a nice error report. I needed something to keep track of programs that were multiple classes.
I wish I could remember the name of the program. I was like textpad, very clean, no extra anything from a basic instal. But what made it different was you could import new modules (functions). Instead of having an overwhelmin experiance with Eclipse, that has everything built in, the cool thing about the blah-bare IDE was if you wanted a specific tool, you could import it and learn it. Later if you needed a second tool, you could import it. It kept the IDE clutter free.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
In a nutshell, and with a bunch of holes - it's a IDE to create java programs. It's written in java.
From TFSite:
Eclipse.org is the website of the Eclipse Foundation.
Eclipse is an open platform for tool integration built by an open community of tool providers. Operating under an open source paradigm, with a common public license that provides royalty free source code and world wide redistribution rights, the eclipse platform provides tool developers with ultimate flexibility and control over their software technology.
Eclipse has formed an independent open eco-system around royalty-free technology and a universal platform for tools integration. Eclipse based tools give developers freedom of choice in a multi-language, multi-platform, multi-vendor environment. Eclipse provides a plug-in based framework that makes it easier to create, integrate and utilize software tools, saving time and money. By collaborating and exploiting core integration technology, tool producers can leverage platform reuse and concentrate on core competencies to create new development technology. The Eclipse Platform is written in the Java language and comes with extensive plug-in construction toolkits and examples. It has already been deployed on a range of development workstations including Linux, HP-UX, AIX, Solaris, QNX, Mac OS X and Windows based systems. A full description of the Eclipse community and white papers documenting the design and use of the Eclipse Platform are available at http://www.eclipse.org./
The Eclipse Foundation is a non-profit corporation formed to advance the creation, evolution, promotion, and support of the Eclipse Platform and to cultivate both an open source community and an ecosystem of complementary products, capabilities, and services.
Seems simple enough to me. They're a non-profit market-speak-driven company that wants to be a cross-platform coding development environment company.
My money is on market-speak winning. I mean, anyone that can write "independent open eco-system around royalty-free technology and a universal platform for tools integration" is much better suited to that than Java. Maybe marketing Java...
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
We were using it where I worked and discovered upon upgrading to 3.1 RC3 that our app wouldn't compile. It still doesn't on this release. Backup your old copy before you upgrade.
Is it an eclipse simulator? Is it a Java IDE? No? Looks like a random assortment of charges to me.
..who has them?
Wow, it seems that eclipse has jumped on the "million download challenge" bandwagon. Though, this one is a bit less interesting as no one has to swim across the ocean...
Badass Resumes
Eclipse is confusing.. its really 2 things in 1.
1. Its an Itergrated Development Environment (IDE) which allows plug ins to extend its usefullyness.
2. Its written in java with SWT (native platorm windowing extentions). It can be used as a framework for building your own java applications.
So what the heck is an IDE? you give this explination but don't explain these advanced terms.
On that what is Java? "It's written in java?" does that have something to do with coffee?
Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
Man, you read and post on Slashdot and don't know what Eclipse is? If so, you didn't write even a "Hello World" in Java, did you?
Eclipse is an IDE. Primarly for Java, but it's plugin system makes it - with proper plugins - great for developing C/C++, PHP, Ruby and even synching with darcs repo!
So what the heck is an IDE? you give this explination but don't explain these advanced terms.
... face it, you need to have at least a BRIEF description.
Integrated Development Environment.
Thanks, it was just it might have a coffee cup icon, but is it an IDE, is it a toolset, is it Java Beans, is it a Hamster Protocol for Java middle-tier building
Fact is, I'd never heard of the prior versions at all, and I code in Java part of the time.
So if I have never heard of it, I presume others have the same problem.
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jEdit
Slashdot just wouldn't be Slashdot with boring/sane stuff like that in there!
How about this: a new version of Apache [a http [http is the the web protocol] server [a program [an ordered set of instructions] that runs all the time] was just released.
It is for Devs, as you say. If you don't know what it is, we don't know you, you don't belong...
I was very impressed with trying out the C++ stuff for Eclipse and I would love to switch over to it.
But I would like to know if people are using it for real world shipping Windows/Linux apps?
mod parent up - most informative post about what the heck Eclipse is I've read here.
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It's a breath freshening bubblegum, a natural celestial event causing awe and fear in primitive hominids of a backwater planet, and a brand of car from a small nation on the west side of a nice ocean on aforementioned backwater planet.
It's also some sort of Java IDE with better marketing description than stability according to what I keep reading.
If my grammar and spelling are off, I am [distracted/tired/careless] (take your pick)
note that not all of the mirrors are updated yet
0 6271435/ p se/R-3.1-200506271435/ 1 -200506271435/ 0 506271435/ 3 .1-200506271435/ d rops/R-3.1-200506271435/ l ipse/downloads/drops/R-3.1-200506271435/ p se/downloads/drops/R-3.1-200506271435/ s /R-3.1-200506271435/ R -3.1-200506271435/ p se/downloads/drops/R-3.1-200506271435/
http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/softeng/eclipse/R-3.1-2005
http://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/Mirrors/ecli
http://eclipse.gabriel.co.hu/downloads/drops/R-3.
http://www.eclipse.ps.pl/downloads/drops/R-3.1-20
http://mirrors.bevc.net/eclipse/download/drops/R-
http://mirror.switch.ch/mirror/eclipse/downloads/
http://mirrors.cs.hacettepe.edu.tr/eclipse.org/ec
http://gulus.usherbrooke.ca/pub/appl/eclipse/ecli
http://mirror.reachable.ca/eclipse/downloads/drop
http://mirror.calvin.edu/eclipse/downloads/drops/
http://ftp.sun.ac.za/ftp/mirrorsites/eclipse/ecli
mmmmm darcs. Needs better subversion and IIRC the PHP plugin doesn't work with 3.1. At least it didn't up till last week.
-- taking over the world, we are.
Some features of java that should compile wouldn't. Generics are a good example. If this was relevant to you, you would know that. Since you don't, I'm thinking you are just complaining to complain.
"A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes." -Mahatma Gandhi
I'm sorry, this is almost a troll. A decent PIII 1GHz with 512Mbytes could run Netbeans quite effectively. In fact, I used to run Netbeans away from the office with a thin and light notebook PC (700MHz ulv PIII, 320Mbytes) and it was able to run a project which included a moderate sized servlet project and a desktop Swing client. The only thing that was slow was the Swing designer, and it was liveable with.
OK, both Eclipse & NB are pretty fast on an AMD64 box with a G of RAM- but actually my current lightweight, relatively slow PIIIM on which I'm typing this is quite adequate - and it's only at that same 1GHz/512Mbytes, with a slow HDD.
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
It's a kludgy, slow IDE that was seemingly thrown together willy-nilly, and has options all over the place (apparantly, program options are actually "Window Preferences") and a generally poor layout.
Unfortunately, it also seems to be the only JAVA IDE with a GUI layout component that stores said layout info in standard code, as opposed to seperate metafiles.
Oh, yeah, did I mention it's non-native-JAVA, so it's really super slow? Sometimes I think that for every step forward, we take 2 or three back.
Denis emailed to request we use mirrors, as they're already getting hammered pretty hard.
I think it's very kind of you to edit the story to suggest that we go to the mirrors instead of to the main site. Did Denis, I dunno, maybe, provide links? If so, any possiblity you'd be willing to share the info?
Stop-Prism.org: Opt Out of Surveillance
"improved support for developing rich client applications based on the Eclipse platform",
that is a feature.
It means that you can make better standalone programs, based on the Eclipse framework.
Java 5.0 support means that it will run faster, and help you make programs faster, that run faster, too, in a nutshell.
The thing I like about NetBeans is that you can be up and deubgging a remote VM in under a minute. You mount a source directory, and bam you can debug whatever and follow the source.
With Eclipse (and many other IDE's) you have to have all the libraries and everythig else the app needs to compile in place before you can debug.
Of course less casual users of IDE's will not mind since they must already maintain the eclipse project file anyway to use it day to day. But for those of use who still prefer more powerful text editors it's one block to using it with regularity.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Hey, I said it was full of holes.
:) Cheers!!
(looking at your low UID, I really don't think you need an explanation though... )
Man, you read and post on Slashdot and don't know what Eclipse is? If so, you didn't write even a "Hello World" in Java, did you?
/. article about Eclipse that barely covers 1 1/2 lines on my screen, you could at least have a short description like:
I use JBuilder and other Java tools. I've never even heard about Eclipse. I do know what JWT is, Swing, Java Beans - but I've never heard about Eclipse until today.
I've got a Sun Java backpack I wear to work, and training in various languages including formal university, college, and industry classes on Java.
And - I've - never - heard - of - Eclipse.
So if you're going to post a
"Eclipse, the combo IDE/toolset for Java, has just come out with their latest 3.1 release [link], which has some really cool features [link]. The best new features are Hamster Juggling, Applied Hamster Subclassing, Hamster Pseudo-Encrypted Sunflower-Swapping, and an improved Hamster-to-Gnome toolkit."
See, now that actually tells you enough that you can decide if you want to read it and if you're interested in the new and/or fixed features. Oh, and if it's Open Source, say so.
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Is java suffering from the same problems that every other previous attempt to make an interpreted language work suffered from? Is it just too slow?
Remember when Java was once a viable "plugin" for your browser? When was the last time you used it?
Remember when Java was supposed to be next foundation for desk top applications? Where are they?
Java's not the new C++ , it's the new Pascal.
Sigh... and me without any mod points, otherwise you'd be getting a nice "+1, Informative, Yet Sarcastic Enough To Remind The Poor Looser That They Are, In Fact, A Looser".*
* Known in some circles as "+1, Funny".
I have been using eclipse for over 3 years to develop J2EE and web apps. It works better and faster than any other IDE I have used in the past.
You seem to have been living under a rock for the past couple of years.
Eclipse is the number one IDE for development in Java. IBM has been developing it for the past 5 years, and recently dozens of companies have jumped on the bandwagon, with the end result that pretty much every major Java developer tools company now has plugins for Eclipse.
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He meant it was written on java...lots of java. That's how they release those milestone builds on time.
Face it...you never heard of it because you're an idiot...especially if you claim to work in Java...either you are lying, about working in Java, or you are an idiot who fails to keep up with what he works with...Eclipse isn't new...
As if a million souls cried out "worst. joke. evah!"
zosxavius photography
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
It looks very trollish - I used Netbeans for a while in a PIII 800 with 256MB. Not my best experience but usable (if you don't mind going for a coffee every now and then while the Garbage Collector does its thing). With my current P4/512 NB 4.1 runs just fine under XP.
Add: "And only then can the proletariat ensure its glorious future" and it sounds like something from a Soviet pamphlet ca. 1923.
Or maybe it sounds like a man from the future describing the Utopia to come in a bad 1950s B movie.
Actually, it's probably just missing some confusing acronyms. :-)
I guess this is really cool stuff for Java coders. But for the rest of us infidels, it's Stonehenge. It's big and impressive, but if you're not a druid, you're not really sure what it does.
- Greg
Start a happiness pandemic
Probably, but in the mean time, you can read about it here.
How is this flamebait? I had a hard time getting eclipse 3.0 working on kaffe a while back myself due to the file locking issue (got great help from #kaffe though), I'd like to know if this has changed.
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
For those of us not in the know and who might possibly be interested in this application, would it be possible from now on for submitters to include a brief description of what the program actually does, and maybe what OSes you can use it on? I think this is fair considering anytime I want to R the FA it's already been pounded into glue by the slashdot hordes.
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
I couldn't really see the need for a third widget toolkit (AWT, Swing, SWT) specially after Sun got some sense and started using the community process to discuss and enhance Java. It always sounded to me like an IBMish NIH attack.
Another reason I never used it for more than a week was the fact Eclipse failed to supply a decent integrated GUI editor (hell, since VB showed the way back in the 90's, one of the most important points in an IDE is the GUI editor) - you had either to pay for a decent one or use some buggy and poorly integrated hack. Do they have something usable now?
So, I guess I must keep feeding more memory to my Netbeans at each upgrade cycle...
Coincidentally, Eclipse is also the name of a wholesale distribution system. Intuit purchased that Eclipse in 2002, so it's now called Intuit Eclipse.
Their website is at: http://eclipse.intuit.com/
I guess it's not unreasonable to think the word "eclipse" would be used repeatedly in the computer world. I used to play on an old text-based MUD named Eclipse too.
Non-native-Java meaning what exactly? It uses SWT and thusly it drops to native GUI widgets whenever possible, which is most widgets on a Windows machine. The slowness is generally related to its plug in loading model IIRC. But then again this is slashdot, so you can just throw things out there with nary a thought, or care in the world.
the frickin web site is /. already so who the heck knows what it is
Use MirrorDot to view Slashdot-linked articles that have gone down under the load.
Intercarve Networks, LLC
Are there any .torrent links for this new version of Eclipse?
I agree it does sound like a load of marketing gibberish. I have a better description:
Popular like java itself - but open and not stifled by SUN licensing.
Cross platform GUI - but not crap like SUNs AWT or slow like Swing.
Powerful development tools similar to Netbeans - only unlike SUNs netbeans people use it that aren't forced to by their employers.
Similar to Netbeans only - only unlikes SUNs netbeans has major industry backing and is becoming the java development platform standard.
I sometimes wonder what life would be like if IBM/OTI had developed java, maybe they wouldn't have crippled java's linux possibilities in the way sun has.
By now we could have had a major modern linux development language and environment and linux could be ahead of windows in terms of migrating to a more modern platform/language.
Instead the entire java platform needs to be rewritten from scratch under a license that doesn't cripple it's chances of getting mass adoption on what is probably destined to be Windows major competition on the desktop.
Let me finish by saying "WAKE UP SCOTT MCNEALY SOLARIS IS DIEING - Be a lead player in Java adoption on the desktop by releasing java under a GPL compatible license. You're strategy of keeping java under a non-linux friendly license is helping IBM/Redhat and the longer you leave it the less likely java will ever become a major desktop platform"
The internal mirror is here: http://fullmoon.torolab.ibm.com/downloads/
like JEdit.
Eclipse is an open platform for tool integration built by an open community of tool providers. Operating under an open source paradigm, with a common public license that provides royalty free source code and world wide redistribution rights, the eclipse platform provides tool developers with ultimate flexibility and control over their software technology.
Eclipse has formed an independent open eco-system around royalty-free technology and a universal platform for tools integration...
{sarcasm}
So I have to ask again, what is this thing?
{/sarcasm}
Yeesh. When did "market-speak" change from clear communication to make a point concisely to buzzword-laden morass that communicates nothing? Wait, don't answer that.
I mean really, do marketing people even have souls? What's wrong with saying it's an "open-source, cross-platform development tool that allows for easy integration with other tools. Eclipse is designed to be very flexible abd robust.". Doesn't that say the same thing without such preteniousness as using "eco-system" to describe software or where every sentence contains half a dozen 3- and 4-word compound nouns?
Heh, eco-system. Makes me think there are frogs and pond scum in the software.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Check out the Visual Editor sub-project within Eclipse for a Swing and SWT editor. It's made a lot of improvements in the last couple releases, especially the latest milestone builds of the 1.1 release (which are compatible with Eclipse 3.1).
This means it can refactor code using Java 5 specifics, it has specific warnings/errors for Java 5 code, quick fixes, code formatting/highlighting, and so on.
An IDE is a certain type of program, such as Eclipse.
Hope that helps.
Mods: Do you disagree with me? Go ahead and mod me down. Meta-mods will sort it out. Good luck!
Who is McNealy going to take advice from? You? A 40-year old, 300 lb man who still lives in his parents' basement and can't spell the word "dying" to save his life?
Unless some sneaky admin updated Eclipse before I got to work this morning I already had Eclipse 3.1.0, not to mention the copyright says 2004...hmmm...me confuzzled.
-tom
Programmers have a long history of writing programs with coffee or other caffeinated beverage.
Surely you jest!
AWT sucked so badly that people stoped talking about client side Java and run to the headless servers. The first Swing sucked too, but not so badly. In 1.5 Swing is almost grown-up and quite faster. They have also hired some non-color-blind people to revamp the default look and feel, and it now looks nice (there were ways to make it look nice in 1.3 to 1.4.x, but those were mostly undocumented).
My other main problem is having no easy migration path, hence my problem with the lack of a GUI editor - if I am going to migrate my apps and have to redesign all user interfaces around a new toolkit, the least I need is a GUI editor - rewriting everything in code would be painfully close to my early days writing GUIs for Apple II programs...
There is something seriously wrong with Slashdot that this trite personal insult was moderated up by two separate moderators. There is a reason I don't have an account here any more.
I'm glad this release is targeting rich clients, because I was really getting sick of contracting for those clients with no money.
Just to make it clear, I mentioned VB just for its ground-breaking (at the time it was quite right to call it revolutionary) approach to GUI building.
As for Java, I have been successfully using Java to develop both server and client apps for years. As Java evolved and got faster, the client-side scene was born again from the AWT ashes. Today we (me, my company) find very little use for anything else (we have been even doing some great Swingless Java2D full-screen experiments). So, as I said in another comment, without a GUI editor the migration from Netbeans/Swing to Eclipse/SWT would be so painfully slow that I would say it would not be economically feasible (mind you, I am not talking about small apps with hundreds of lines, I am talking about multi-thousand to tens of thousands of lines apps).
How do you expect it to get fixed by them then? They can't know about a problem unless you tell them.
"Popular like java itself - but open and not stifled by SUN licensing."
Wrong. Don't know if you're talking about Eclipse or SWT but in either case you're wrong. Java is more popular than either. There are a ton more Swing apps than SWT. Sun's licensing isn't stiffling considering many people use SWT and Eclipse with Sun's JVM.
"Cross platform GUI - but not crap like SUNs AWT or slow like Swing"
SWT is a lot more limited than Swing. People that have a hard time coding in swing like SWT. Just because you can't understand swing doesn't make IT bad. Swing isn't slow anymore.
"Powerful development tools similar to Netbeans - only unlike SUNs netbeans people use it that aren't forced to by their employers."
I use NetBeans by choice and I know a lot of others that do as well. If you're doing web development or swing gui development there is no better free option available than netbeans. Why pay for plug-ins when I can get better tools for free?
"Similar to Netbeans only - only unlikes SUNs netbeans has major industry backing and is becoming the java development platform standard."
These people seem to think they are backing netbeans.
"I sometimes wonder what life would be like if IBM/OTI had developed java, maybe they wouldn't have crippled java's linux possibilities in the way sun has."
Easy, if IBM developed Java, they would have kept it to themselves. Not only would they have kept it to themselves it would have failed. When Java came out IBM was no friend of open source and open standards or even playing well with others. IBM has bought some nice technology over the years but as a development shop they haven't been much to brag about. Their legacy products have kept them going until they could do more and expand their consulting into other areas.
"By now we could have had a major modern linux development language and environment and linux could be ahead of windows in terms of migrating to a more modern platform/language."
I'm sure the IBM PR department are very happy to know they're doing a good job.
"Instead the entire java platform needs to be rewritten from scratch under a license that doesn't cripple it's chances of getting mass adoption on what is probably destined to be Windows major competition on the desktop."
Right, cause RedHat and SuSE don't include java in their distros and IBM doesn't sell any products that bundle Java?
"Let me finish by saying "WAKE UP SCOTT MCNEALY SOLARIS IS DIEING - Be a lead player in Java adoption on the desktop by releasing java under a GPL compatible license. You're strategy of keeping java under a non-linux friendly license is helping IBM/Redhat and the longer you leave it the less likely java will ever become a major desktop platform""
I'm sure the CEO of a multi billion dollar corporation has just been holding back until some random guy on slashdot, that sells cd's with open source software on them for 2 bucks, would come along and set him straight.
I have to say that I'm loving 3.0.
CFEclipse and PHPEclipse have allowed me to completely ditch dreamweaver.
Will eclipse 3.0 update to 3.1 with the built in updater?
Is there a way to use the 'FTP and WebDAV' support to edit sites like dreamweaver
=1000101
Is subversion natively supported yet? Last time I saw using it with Eclipse required you to manually recompile subversion with some java binding thing and then installing an plugin...
Prescriptive grammar:linguistics
Who the hell moderated this crap up, and can we just ban those accounts for life from moderating?
I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
I Downloaded 2.1 when it first came out. I finally got it running today and now this!
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
I downloaded bid:I20050617-1618 a couple weeks ago. Can somebody tell me if this is the same build?
---k--
</stupid>
Here's a link that might help. This link might help as well.
If you need help on what a "link" is though, you'll need to go here.
No, Vern. They just let him in.
So what the heck is an IDE? you give this explination but don't explain these advanced terms.
On that what is Java? "It's written in java?" does that have something to do with coffee?
Geesh, Arson, give me a break.
IDE is Integrated Development Environment.
Java is a platform-independent programming language using object-oriented class structures to encapsulate and provide security for various uses.
Newb is what I used to call people that flamed others who ask a simple question because the submitter didn't bother having more than one link or even a faq link or brief explanation - but then I grew up and stopped the flamewars.
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Care to count how many digits my account has? And mind you, this is my second account, I lost the first one.
Now, please, you're asking for it. While I fully understand the generic need for better Slashdot posts (alas, that's a lost war already - they won't change) asking about Eclipse in the terms you did is just too funny to let it pass. Now go ask in the Apple section what an iPod is and in the Apache section what the heck is this HTTP thing people keep talking about.
ah, so it's really from March to June that it's picked up steam - that explains a lot.
I've been reading a lot of Biology, Biochem, Protein, and Bioinformatics texts during that time, as well as advanced Perl.
I already get Sys-Con's Java mags at home and via email - but have been bogged down learning other skill sets - e.g. Biochem/etc - so that's a useful answer.
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Incorrect. Eclipse 3.0 has always run just fine on a java5 jvm. And it gets the small speed increase that VM imparts.
JDK 5 support means that the editor 'knows' about the new java5 langauage features. And moreover the editor can refactor code using that knowledge.
--
Tomcat Hosting
I really meant java desktop development was stifled. After microsoft killed their java implementation Sun could have atleast made it viable on the linux platform and relaxed the requirements to distribute a 15 meg platform with your clientside app on windows.
"I use NetBeans by choice and I know a lot of others that do as well."
Fair enough. I have great difficulty persuading my colleagues to even use FREE tools/apps written in swing. I don't find swing apps are generally very responsive or nice to use. But who knows, once i used Emacs and now I use VI.
"These people seem to think they are backing netbeans."
True, though the last SUN employee i talked to was using eclipse and said he'd run netbeans when it stopped crashing. That hasn't encouraged me to try it again.
"Easy, if IBM developed Java, they would have kept it to themselves..."
True.
"I'm sure the IBM PR department are very happy to know they're doing a good job."
Yes, although people on IBM payroll are contributing a lot these days to open source and real code sometimes too, not just endless over complicated specifications written by comitees.
"Right, cause RedHat and SuSE don't include java in their distros and IBM doesn't sell any products that bundle Java?"
This is distro tack on stuff. Unless java was opened up it will never be used for key projects like gnome and mainstream apps - for one thing debian will never bundle it. Most of the redhat suse stuff is tack on enterprise server stuff, not related to the desktop platform.
"I'm sure the CEO of a multi billion dollar corporation has just been holding back until some random guy on slashdot...."
No of course not, i was just ranting. Mind you, he has a lot more to lose in stock options than me.
Sun Microsystems doesn't like to talk about, or even acknowledge the existence of, Eclipse. Unless you really pester them about it.
After all, IBM picked the name: they're eclipsing the sun...
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
So what the heck is an IDE? you give this explination but don't explain these advanced terms.
Technically it would be more correct asking "What is IDE?" instead of using "an IDE", since IDE is a type of hard disk... it's being replaced by SATA these days, but still nice and cheap. IDE descends from RLE hard drives... they were called that because of the "Run-Length Encoding" compression scheme they used to store data more efficiently. The Microsoft / Stacker case is a large part of why the industry left RLE HD's behind and moved to IDE. IDE of course stands for "Integer-Deliminated Encoding", which is a much more advanced storage mechanism that relies on wavelets and sometimes pixlets (But that's an Apple tech).
Moving on...
On that what is Java? "It's written in java?" does that have something to do with coffee?
You are correct here... "Written in Java" however is grammatically incorrect and should be "Written ON Java". This describes the programming method used to develop the Eclipse IDE hard disk technology. Since wavelet and pixlet compression using Integer-Deliminated Encoding is considered a form of "Extreme Programming", it requires a hefty intake of Java and other energy drinks such as Red Bull or Ballz. Using the new Kabbalah drinks qualifies your development style as "Black Arts" programming. I'm sure you remember seeing various books about Black Magic programming, Voodoo and of course the Linux bible... that's why religious wars about Operating Systems and text editors always come up here.
I could go on about the cult of the Penguin and the art of summoning daemons but I'd like to keep this post short and simple to help educate those who are new to programming.
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Anyone know of a good, well supported GUI builder that I can use within Eclipse for my Java apps?
There are plugins for almost everything. This will take the heat off the download servers as well. It takes at least a few hours just to notice the most important plugins :)
Actually I my Eclipse runs just fine on my Pentium III 700 MHz, and that's the 3.1M6 with the WebTools Pluguins and a Tomcat instance running!!
Of course I had to upgrade from mere 256MB to 768MB to achive good performance. Eclipse eats every bit of memory you may throw at it, and keeps asking for more.
I guess that 256MB is the bare minimum, 512MB is usable and 1GB+ is what I'd recommend for serious development.
---- You know how some doctors have the Messiah complex - they need to save the world? You've got the "Rubik's" complex
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:BW6W3QUP7CD23KZRGZG4BK7M4LX2WB K3
import this into Azureus with File->Open->Location... for a trackerless torrent. Also works with BT 4.1.2 beta, although I have no idea how to use it. Remove a space in that magnet uri if slashdot mistakenly put one there.
View the parent for the regular torrent.
http://play.aelitis.com/torrents/eclipse-SDK-3.1-w in32.zip.torrent
Using the mirrors would help if I could even get to the page listing the mirrors, but that seems to be getting hammered.
That's caused MS screwed them over. Some desktop suppliers shipped upgraded JRE's as well as some corporate IT depts. Today, Linux is only a viable desktop in a few cases, back when the MS/Java thing happened it wasn't even close. Swing has become a lot faster in my experience in Tiger on both windows and gnome. Mustang seems to be getting even more done with more native integration.
"Yes, although people on IBM payroll are contributing a lot these days to open source and real code sometimes too, not just endless over complicated specifications written by comitees."
The OSS group should have a more critical look at what IBM is doing with open source and why. Also considering your last comment I think it's safe to assume that you're talking about sun again. For a much smaller company, they've contributed a significant amount of code to OSS projects and released a lot of their own stuff. The JCP is a good thing. Like I said before, if IBM made Java, there would be no JCP. It's ont Free or Open by some definitions but people can contribute and Java isn't really forking. IBM may complain sometimes because they don't get what they want but that doesn't mean the process doesn't work. It's good to see that IBM can't get everything they want when it may be a problem for other's in the community or the community as a whole. This is pointless though. IBM made a lot of anti Sun noise because they are a big competitor in many different areas. They got their fans to do the same. Sun and IBM made moves to quell that tension and now the fans need to start doing the same. That whole attitude isn't good for Java or Unix in general.
"This is distro tack on stuff. Unless java was opened up it will never be used for key projects like gnome and mainstream apps - for one thing debian will never bundle it. Most of the redhat suse stuff is tack on enterprise server stuff, not related to the desktop platform."
Or the free JVM's and class libraries can get more up to speed rather than complaining that Sun hasn't open sourced their implementation. Some of the JSR's come out with a Free/Open reference implementation. What would help Linux is if Sun had a better way to distribute the JDK/JRE with distros like Debian. Though Debian shouldn't technically be distributing Mozilla either. Althought doing something like that might cut into their Java revenues. Though they give away the JDK or JRE to individuals that download it, you have to have special arrangements ($$) to distribute it. I believe MS, RedHat, SuSE, IBM all had to pay to distribute the JDK with their respective OS's. I read somewhere that Java is a break even business for Sun.
IBM is making a lot of money from Global Services that relies on giving away (open sourcing) a lot of code. Personally i don't have a problem with IBM making money from this. I also thought that SUN should open source java in a GPL compatible way before it hit the headlines.
I don't believe that Java would fall apart if they released a GPL compatible version and let Jakarta Apache style projects develop instead of the current comitee-heavy/code-light JCP process. Compare the quality and ease of use of Apache Jakarta projects with the heavy handed and poor-performance riddled j2EE-EJB framework.
In fact I think Sun could make MORE money from java if they opened it up, particularly in the longer term.
Looking at the software stack, the idea is to make money at the top of the stack and give away the base for free. Sun chose to open up solaris more than java. But the OS is already a commodity item it's too late to get people hooked into using you "OS platform" it's not long before even banks start refering to legacy solaris. It wasn't too late to get people hooked into using the "java platform" which is quite high up the software stack.
Java is a break even business model for Sun because Sun isn't taking advantage of java in the way that IBM is. And eclipse versus netbean is just one of the key areas that sun is struggling due to it's lack of open-ness and IMO poor design decisions. I was half expecting SUN to write a 3rd crossplatform GUI toolkit after swing.
Also, it means you can make force the compiler to make java 1.5 the minimum requirement (-target 1.5). You could not do this in previous versions of eclipse, even if you were using the 1.5 SDK.
I found the big time hog on Eclipse startup to be the anti virus scanner. The eclipse process takes 20 seconds CPU time (P4 ~2GHz, 512MB), while the AV had almost 2 minutes. I guess it's because of the large number of small files to scan.
The second startup just takes 20 seconds. Still not that great, but better than 2 mins.
boldly going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse
Java is a break even business for them. Not their java software stack. Java the language/vm/platform. I shouldn't bother responding to troll's in the first place.
1) Release 100mb download, with stated goal of reaching a million downloads.
2) Post link on slashdot _before_ the download has been mirrored.
3) Watch in horror as tens of thousands of users try to download from the main server because it's not on the mirrors because the mirrors can't reach the main server.
http://play.aelitis.com/torrents/eclipse-SDK-3.1-m acosx-carbon.tar.gz.torrent
-- Manik Surtani
I could not find a torrent for the Linux verison, so I made one. You can get the Linux GTK version at: http://simoes.org/eclipse-SDK-I20050627-1435-linux -gtk.tar.gz.torrent
Will word wrap make an appearance in Eclipse anytime soon? I've heard that it would require a core rewrite of Eclipse in order to implement it...anyone know otherwise?
;-)
My co-workers keep trying to push Eclipse on me, but with such a simple feature as word wrap missing, I've just got to stick with jEdit.
Is this feature in Eclipse, and he's just missed it somewhere? I mean, c'mon: what text editor doesn't have word wrap? (Not that Eclipse is a plain ol' text editor, I didn't mean any offense to the Eclipse hot-heads.
This is not an official Fugazi sig.
I had the page up to the mirrors, then even the routing pages died (so I had to extract that actual mirror link from the full URL...); anyway, here's one mirror that's zipping along for me. And I will post this reply as soon as my download finishes...
win32 zip at mirror.reachable.ca
You can figure out the base directory from that if you want it for another platform.
And a few more that I haven't tested, in various countries (trying to pick the ones that look the toughest):
gulus.USherbrooke.ca
mirrorservice.org
eclipse.objectweb.org
software-mirror.com
sunsite.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
Final note: some of these are definitely hosed; the first seems to work. Gotta hand it to the Canadians -- they're the ones staying up.
I had the same reaction when a friend starting working with this at his work.. He said check this out and sent me a link to the site..
Evan after reading everything I had to ask him to explain it a little more before I "got" it. Language is often not programers strong points. (see any man page)
Although I've just played around with it a little, I like it.
http://beavis.deenlo.com:6969/torrents/eclipse-SDK -3.1-linux-gtk-x86_64.tar.gz.torrent?C2EAED1730B88 B2E56653A5F16BF53B7374375DD
.... remove spacesP 2TW43UG5 O5
For Azureus
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:YLVO2FZQXCFS4VTFHJPRN
The lack of Java 5.0 support was a turn-off for me. Netbeans had that for quite a while, and I happen to be fond of those new features (such as autoboxing and generics) and don't want them flagged as errors by the editor. So as powerful as Eclipse was, I switched to Netbeans 4.1 and I am liking it, don't think I'll switch back any time soon.
This isn't directly related to 3.1, but maybe there will be people trying out eclipse.
:) Right click on your main class, Run -> Java Application.
When I started using eclipse (at 3.0), I wish I had known that projects are synched with the file system. After creating a project, there's no need to "add files" or "import folder" to the project - just hit F5 and the file structure where your project is located will be used. I kept looking for something more complicated
Hit F1 in any editor window, and a menu of ~10 topics will pop up. I found these well worth the look! They're well-structured and full of useful screenshots.
With an emule client (http://www.emule-project.net/home/perl/general.cg i?l=1&rm=download), you can download the win32 version here:0 06934|9 C64A5F7A549254AF8DD3835247E0887|h=CXW2OP3EICJF7CWP TOR44ZT6S5QIT3P3|/
ed2k://|file|eclipse-SDK-3.1-win32.zip|108
You'll probably need to strip slashspaces from the emule and ed2k links.
AWT sucked because it imposed its own weird event model that didn't match how the OSes are all designed. (led to lots of flickering, refresh problems, etc).
Swing sucks because its fucking HUGE, and all written in Java ("fake" widgets instead of native widgets), so it has the "uncanny valley" effect of being almost, but not quite, like the native widgets. Also its SLOOWWWWWW.
The design of SWT is actually originally based on the Common Widgets framework from IBM Smalltalk. SWT is a much better widget toolkit than either AWT or Swing. There's just no comparison.
SWT is the best of all possible worlds--Native widgets, high performance, all the logic implemented on the Java side where it can be JITted, nothing in the natives except straight pass-thru of args to the OS functions.
SWT offers a portable, easy-to-use widget toolkit for Win32, GTK, and some other windowing systems. It's no mean feat to unify Win32 tree widgets and buttons and rich text edit widgets, into a simple heirarchy and work around all the widget bugs in Windows etc.
Anyone who has written both Win32 widget code and SWT widget code can attest to the fact that it's WAY, WAY easier to write working SWT code. And you can port it with practically zero effort to any of the platforms SWT is available for.
I've been using Eclipse every day for 3 years and its the best development environment I've ever used. The refactoring support and the browsing support is a huge win (I'd die without browsing, the codebase I work on contains thousands of classes, without the incredible browsing features of Eclipse I'd never be able to track down the bugs. You can find all the references to methods/fields in the heirarchy/workspace/some selected working set, show all occurrences in the file with Ctrl+Shift+U, pop up outline navigation with Ctrl+O, browse to a type with Ctrl+Shift+T, view methods and fields and types in the Declarations view as you browse the code that references them, and so on and so on).
I write graphical editors based on GEF and SWT for a large Eclipse-based product (thousands of plugins). I've If you're writing GUI applications in Java, SWT beats Swing or AWT hands-down. And Eclipse is unbeatable when it comes to developing large Java applications--both as an IDE and as a rich client platform to build on top of.
You forgot to mention MFM... man, I remember when $10/MB was a great price for a hard drive.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
I still used Eclipse though, because the milestone versions for 3.1 had full Java 5 support about 6 months ago already, and they were really quite stable. Only the advanced features like specific warnings and refactorings took a little bit longer to get added, but I was quite happy even without those :)
SWT is in many ways what Swing should have been, or a bare-bones version of it.
The difference is that SWT uses native widgets whereas Swing emulates native widgets or paints an entirely new set - your choice.
I will never understand this decision. It is good nerd fun to switch the "pluggable" GUI but it adds insane complexity to the drawing process - and the whole GUI framework - while at the same time makes users complain that Swing apps look alien on their desktop.
Sun also has to release a new Swing version every time WinXP / OS X change their looks. SWT gets these changes for free just like any other native app. It's quite horrible, and they are lucky that the look and feel doesn't change often.
But, yeah, run an app that will only run under JDK 1.2 and it will look like Win2K. Way to go to make a good impression on the desktop!
The problem with Swing is that there is absolutely no solution. The best a Java developer can do is go with a nice looking GUI framework - like jgoodies - and live with the differences.
SWT originally also was way, way faster than Swing. Swing is the main factor people considered Java slow in the beginning. Swing was hand-drawing pixels on the screen without hardware acceleration! Nowadays, Swing is hardware accelerated - again great effort was required - and close enough to native speed that no one will notice.
Swing is a failure of an architecture - it requires immense resources to keep up to date and to make it fast. For what? So that we can see the god-awful Metal GUI? IBM was right to do SWT...
Supposedly everyone(*) is switching to NetBeans.
(*) NB: Switchers may not be real people.
Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.Read more of this story at Slashdot.
I feel the sameway - Had no clue to what it was about. Something like tooltip should be available for such subjects.
Why does yahoo do this
A new version of Apache [an http [http is the web [that big E on your desktop] protocol [how two computers [the big tv on your desk] talk to one another] server [a program [an ordered set of instructions[what you can never follow you luser] that runs all the time] was just released.
Yeah, that's it.
J.
You're only jealous cos the little penguins are talking to me.
I am one of the few who develop a client application on top of Eclipse platform (RCP). I can only say that it's the most bloated piece of software I have ever seen. The API is really incredible: thousands of classes, many duplicating Java functionality. Dozens, sometimes hundreds of methods in the classes. A lot of core Java functionality is changed in return for dubeous advantages. I really don't know what their designers are smoking. From the UI perspective Eclipse IDE seems similar to me. It feels bloated and unintuitive. That being said, it has excellent refactoring features that make modifying and navigating code a pleasure. Every time I use a different IDE I miss these features tremendously. Another words, I hate working in Eclipse because it's bloated and unintuitive and I hate working with anything else because of lack of excellent features that Eclipse makes so useful.
[x] Post from someone asking "What is this eclipse thing? Astronomical program of some sort? please explain." .torrent link anyone?"
[x] Post by someone using some weird VM/extension/platform and having problem with it that everyone must know about.
[x] 20 posts "how about
[x] 20 posts that torrent distribution should be a standart..
Read the parent first.
I was replying to an AC troll (my fault) who said he didn't care about the java version, but the features.
I said three things: eclipse runs faster, you program faster programs that will run faster.
Having more power to work with Java 1.5 means nothing by itself, and that was the only point of the AC I replied to. Of course, it means you can work with a VM tailored for speed, in every sense. Whether it provides a small, or a big speed increase, depends on what you are developing, and your needs, but the "feature" that java 1.5 tries to provide is speed. Running and coding speed.
There must be something else going on with your computer.
I'm using an old Dell laptop with Win2K, 1.3 GHZ P3, 512 RAM. Half the machine yours is, and plenty of issues accumulating after years of use without a clean reinstall (IE tends to take a full minute or two to start up when I have to run it, for example).
Anyway, first run of Eclipse 3.1 took about 20 seconds from double-click to workspace loaded. My text coloring is off and I clearly need to go through the settings again, but it works fine. Opening a project, source file, etc. doesn't take more than 1-2 seconds.
Closed down, re-ran -- after the first startup, now it's 8 seconds from double-click to useable workspace. Memory usage: 41MB, VM Size: 69MB. Not bad at all -- I'm not swapping, and I have various databases and other server software running locally at the same time.
So... I'm guessing your startup problems are your own. Good luck.
You mentioned that Eclipse occasionally stalls. It happens for me too, and I find it annoying. Do you know what's happening?
I'm particularly interested in knowing if SWT -- the GUI toolkit underneath Eclipse -- is the cause (in which case I will reconsider using it for my apps), or if instead the problem is a sudden heavy garbage collection.
Heavy garbage collection can be avoided if helping the garbage collector by:
Okay, I like it -- everything's visibly faster (starting up, shutting down, opening files/projects/etc.), the settings make more sense now and are easier to navigate (you can type in a filter like "color" and it'll just show you all of the settings pages where you can set colors of some kind. Sweet). They also link helpfully to related settings pages. No drastic additions that I see so far -- though it's a workday, so I haven't spent much time exploring yet. My code formatting profile was carried over perfectly into the new version, as did various build profiles and so on for 14 different projects (though the one Eclipse plugin project seems to be in need of help).
/your.eclipse.workspace/.metadata/.plugins/org.ecl ipse.core.runtime/.settings/
The support for 1.5 seems quite complete and well-integrated (including a slew of possible new coding style warnings); but I'm not developing to 1.5 right now, so I won't vouch for everything.
Most of the other changes I've noticed are like these and what you'd expect for a solid minor release -- nothing drastic, but lots of little enhancements across the board.
The main trouble right now is that most 3rd party plugins won't support the new version yet, for example PHPeclipse (which I use now and again). I'll be keeping 3.0.1 around for a bit because of this.
One minor glitch that I ran into using a workspace from earlier versions was that I couldn't change the selection foreground/background -- that's because I had overridden this value earlier in the Java editor prefs pages... and you can't change it there anymore, BUT the setting was still being read (and the setting I put in the text editor prefs page was still being overridden...).
If you run into something like this, close eclipse and search through the properties files where these settings are stored:
In this case, I had to delete the AbstractTextEditor.Color.SelectionForeground and Background keys in org.eclipse.jdt.ui.prefs, then everything worked fine when I restarted.
Overall, I'm pleased -- the last big upgrade I had to redo my code formatting rules and syntax-highlighting colors/fonts from scratch (which takes awhile.. gotta have that black bg though!).
You're right, it's confusing. The message on Eclipse.org is totally unclear.
They call the Eclipse Platform what we like to call the IDE; and the SWT toolkit is hidden in the Eclipse Platform binaries.
Plus, I don't remember any marketing of the JFace API, a nice high-level toolkit on top of SWT. The Eclipse IDE uses JFace, or directly SWT for its GUI.
Thanks, I'll look at the plugin.
Note that last time I noticed a stall, my hard drive became very busy. Also, most of the times, stalls occur when restoring focus to the code editing area.
Any bug fixes or feature requests that do not directly affect the performance of Eclipse as an IDE for Eclipse development are swiftly rejected.
By-the-by there was an article on the register today about the IBM-Sun relationship.
/appserver and hence make more money out of java. But sun dislikes them and I feel holds back the whole java platform on linux just to thwart IBM's growth, they could work with IBM to grow the enterprise java market and thwart the proprietary dotnet take u. Particularly with IBM moving out of hardware.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/30/ibm_java/
I suppose one of the things that bugs me is that microsoft killed java on the desktop then cloned it with dot-net, failed to innovate at all and now SUN is their best friend.
IBM on the other hand has done massive amounts to promote the java platform and their only crime is that they created a more popular ide platform
I can only really see the Sun-Microsoft relationship as desperation setting in.