That kind of precision strike assumes you go undetected and will not be intercepted. The problem is that radars evolve faster than airframes nowadays. If you go read up on the recent F-35 news, there are reports about both Russian and Chinese being able to pick up each and every currently fielded 'stealth' jet. Radar vs stealth is always going to be an arms race, but you can obviously deploy newer radars faster than jets. And also, in a contested airspace in a complex theater you might have radars sweeping at every angle - assuming you are not fighting goat herders, but then you don't need trillion dollar jets either.
Guns are effectively a thing of the past in air combat. Until your existing missiles are all rendered ineffective by some countermeasure, like directed energy point defense weapons. It sounds sci-fi, but Russians were actually actively investigating capabilities of their AESA radars to electronically kill missiles like a decade ago. Doesn't mean something like that is feasible any time soon, but 'obsolete' and 'thing of the past' are claims of hubris and omniscience
Shoot happened and failed, the 'scoot' part happened because Iraqis were obviously massively outnumbered. Only a lunatic would stay and try to take on 8 Eagles with a cannon.
The point is, BVR didnt work specifically against an old but agile adversary. Which means assertions that 'dogfighting is obsolete' should be questioned, and obviously, again - you do not always get to define the way you prefer to fight
Two engagements from these first days of the conflict are particularly interesting. In the first case, two IQAF MiG-25 interceptors were vectored onto a pair of USAF F-15 fighters. It was a successful interception and the Iraqis fired their missiles, though without effect. The two F-15s successfully evaded the attack and then turned to pursue. The high speed MiG-25s quickly outdistanced the trailing F-15s, who between them fired a total of ten air-to-air missiles at the Iraqis — also without success.
In a second case, a single Iraqi MiG-25 pilot near Tikrit managed to penetrate a defensive screen of two flights of four F-15 fighter planes each (a total of eight USAF fighter aircraft!) and then fire three missiles at an EF-111A Raven aircraft that was supporting an inbound strike package. The EF-111A Raven pilots were able to evade the missiles but had to break off their mission, which left the strike package without electronics countermeasures coverage for its mission. As with the other pair of MiG-25s, this third Iraqi MiG also outran the F-15s and recovered successfully to their base.
Ok, here is the assertion put forth by proponents of F-35 : 'dogfighting is obsolete'. I didnt make this assertion. They would be right to say it was mostly irrelevant for the last major conflict or two, thats the 'last war' part, but claiming that its 'obsolete' is a claim of hubris. Without knowing your future enemy and their full abilities, there is no way to assert that. It might be very well possible that the first a fully operational F-35 fleet is called for, the fleet operator does not get to dictate the way to fight. Maybe it is going to be a full on dogfight all the time because suddenly BVR engagements are not feasible anymore due to some major technical advance ( say, really good jammers or even far out things like active missile defense with directed energy weaponry ) and you'll never get a chance to show off your bombing prowess because you cant get past the enemy interceptors. Then whats the value of your $250M superjet ?
The point is, because you cant tell your enemy what they are supposed and not supposed to do, and if you unilaterally declare air to air dogfights obsolete, they have all the incentive to make it not so.
If i could mod here i would mod you insightful - thanks for this commentary. But everything you said actually speaks for the point - the assumption that 'dogfighting was obsolete' because you had better tech was still completely wrong. US did not get to define the way they wanted to fight, i.e. by shooting missiles at long range, they had to adapt the tactics.
That is one very significant point here - training and practice is the key, and if the costs of training become ( comparatively ) high, you are on the wrong trajectory. A Flanker fleet can be kept in the air for practice for relative pittance compared to F-35 fleet costs.
2. If you are in a dogfight in a 5th gen aircraft you are doing it wrong. You should have already used your BVR missiles and headed home.
This has been said left and right, but in engagements where one side does not have overwhelming superior numbers, you often do not get to choose the way you want to fight. This idea of BVR missile and head home is probably again a fine idea for the last war, not the next one. BTW, even in first Gulf war - where Iraqis were massively outclassed and basically steamrolled over - there were instances where Mig-25s were fired at with multiple missile salvos but managed to evade all of them, fired back at close range and then turned around and just outran the opposing F-15s. Clear examples of the opponent utilizing his few advantages against an overall superior enemy and fighting his way. Read at the end here : http://fly.historicwings.com/2...
Dogfighting was supposed to be a thing of the past in Vietnam skies when F-4 Phantom II showed up without a gun toting advanced tech and missiles. It got chewed up bad by Mig's
Someone should summarize Gerard K. O'Neills " The high Frontier" for this guy - and other candidates. It's be interesting if any of them really get it and agree with the core concepts
"Many families do not have the savings to miss a single paycheck."
Families working at Amazon cant miss a single paycheck ? Then they are living beyond their means and have no clue about basics of fiscal responsibility.
OpenWRT builds should soon come with "none of this telemetry shit" big red switch on the frontpage. And not just Msft, but apple, oracle, etc included. And then, i want OpenWRT built into a usb-ethernet dongle that i can take with me to travel.
The first application is not online banking. The concept of "banking" is not well developed in these areas, much less online banking. the first application is almost exclusively simply communication. and watching pictures on the net ( no reading - language barrier ). also taking pictures. I was in southern parts a year or so ago. gave away a phone, footwear and some shirts in person to some kids - they were super grateful.
Safe usage of the old phones is putting them in a container and sending them to rural Africa. Along with your sneakers that you didnt like, tee shirts and so on, believe me, the recipients will appreciate.
>> or a few select high-density downtown areas (perhaps SF or Chicago), you don't get a cab by raising your hand.
In SF, you get a cab by raising your hand only at times when you dont need one. At all other hours, it is impossible to hail a cab on street, and calling does not help - the guys simply dont show up. Official taxi company apps are teh suck and never work. Hence, Uber just wins by actually getting you a car when you need one.
I would not run firewall on top of the same OS that you are suspecting of shenanigans and privacy issues. Interesting idea - a USB 'ethernet adapter' that contains a small linux SBC running OpenWRT or something akin.
Easy to accomplish with a network router that is not completely dumb. A bit more complicated when travelling, but hey a wifi-wifi repeater/router will probably do the trick.
Slashdot Mirror
But can they play Brockian Ultra Cricket ?
That kind of precision strike assumes you go undetected and will not be intercepted. The problem is that radars evolve faster than airframes nowadays. If you go read up on the recent F-35 news, there are reports about both Russian and Chinese being able to pick up each and every currently fielded 'stealth' jet.
Radar vs stealth is always going to be an arms race, but you can obviously deploy newer radars faster than jets. And also, in a contested airspace in a complex theater you might have radars sweeping at every angle - assuming you are not fighting goat herders, but then you don't need trillion dollar jets either.
Guns are effectively a thing of the past in air combat.
Until your existing missiles are all rendered ineffective by some countermeasure, like directed energy point defense weapons.
It sounds sci-fi, but Russians were actually actively investigating capabilities of their AESA radars to electronically kill missiles like a decade ago. Doesn't mean something like that is feasible any time soon, but 'obsolete' and 'thing of the past' are claims of hubris and omniscience
Shoot happened and failed, the 'scoot' part happened because Iraqis were obviously massively outnumbered. Only a lunatic would stay and try to take on 8 Eagles with a cannon.
The point is, BVR didnt work specifically against an old but agile adversary. Which means assertions that 'dogfighting is obsolete' should be questioned, and obviously, again - you do not always get to define the way you prefer to fight
Did you read the link ?
Two engagements from these first days of the conflict are particularly interesting. In the first case, two IQAF MiG-25 interceptors were vectored onto a pair of USAF F-15 fighters. It was a successful interception and the Iraqis fired their missiles, though without effect. The two F-15s successfully evaded the attack and then turned to pursue. The high speed MiG-25s quickly outdistanced the trailing F-15s, who between them fired a total of ten air-to-air missiles at the Iraqis — also without success.
In a second case, a single Iraqi MiG-25 pilot near Tikrit managed to penetrate a defensive screen of two flights of four F-15 fighter planes each (a total of eight USAF fighter aircraft!) and then fire three missiles at an EF-111A Raven aircraft that was supporting an inbound strike package. The EF-111A Raven pilots were able to evade the missiles but had to break off their mission, which left the strike package without electronics countermeasures coverage for its mission. As with the other pair of MiG-25s, this third Iraqi MiG also outran the F-15s and recovered successfully to their base.
Ok, here is the assertion put forth by proponents of F-35 : 'dogfighting is obsolete'. I didnt make this assertion.
They would be right to say it was mostly irrelevant for the last major conflict or two, thats the 'last war' part, but claiming that its 'obsolete' is a claim of hubris. Without knowing your future enemy and their full abilities, there is no way to assert that.
It might be very well possible that the first a fully operational F-35 fleet is called for, the fleet operator does not get to dictate the way to fight. Maybe it is going to be a full on dogfight all the time because suddenly BVR engagements are not feasible anymore due to some major technical advance ( say, really good jammers or even far out things like active missile defense with directed energy weaponry ) and you'll never get a chance to show off your bombing prowess because you cant get past the enemy interceptors. Then whats the value of your $250M superjet ?
The point is, because you cant tell your enemy what they are supposed and not supposed to do, and if you unilaterally declare air to air dogfights obsolete, they have all the incentive to make it not so.
If i could mod here i would mod you insightful - thanks for this commentary. But everything you said actually speaks for the point - the assumption that 'dogfighting was obsolete' because you had better tech was still completely wrong. US did not get to define the way they wanted to fight, i.e. by shooting missiles at long range, they had to adapt the tactics.
That is one very significant point here - training and practice is the key, and if the costs of training become ( comparatively ) high, you are on the wrong trajectory. A Flanker fleet can be kept in the air for practice for relative pittance compared to F-35 fleet costs.
2. If you are in a dogfight in a 5th gen aircraft you are doing it wrong. You should have already used your BVR missiles and headed home.
This has been said left and right, but in engagements where one side does not have overwhelming superior numbers, you often do not get to choose the way you want to fight. This idea of BVR missile and head home is probably again a fine idea for the last war, not the next one.
BTW, even in first Gulf war - where Iraqis were massively outclassed and basically steamrolled over - there were instances where Mig-25s were fired at with multiple missile salvos but managed to evade all of them, fired back at close range and then turned around and just outran the opposing F-15s. Clear examples of the opponent utilizing his few advantages against an overall superior enemy and fighting his way.
Read at the end here : http://fly.historicwings.com/2...
Always well prepared for the last war, arent we ?
Dogfighting was supposed to be a thing of the past in Vietnam skies when F-4 Phantom II showed up without a gun toting advanced tech and missiles. It got chewed up bad by Mig's
You have lost your wager
Someone should summarize Gerard K. O'Neills " The high Frontier" for this guy - and other candidates.
It's be interesting if any of them really get it and agree with the core concepts
spoken like someone who has no clue what the 'bottom' means. you live in US of A and have a job at Amazon, and that's bottom? get a grip
Sure, it's not slavery if you can quit...but it is when everywhere else can act the exact same way.
That argument doesn't work in civilized world, as creating the 'everywhere else' places to work is anyones freedom.
"Many families do not have the savings to miss a single paycheck."
Families working at Amazon cant miss a single paycheck ? Then they are living beyond their means and have no clue about basics of fiscal responsibility.
Octopussy ?
OpenWRT builds should soon come with "none of this telemetry shit" big red switch on the frontpage. And not just Msft, but apple, oracle, etc included. And then, i want OpenWRT built into a usb-ethernet dongle that i can take with me to travel.
I checked with a couple of compression and video processing patent pools and the computer says no.
There is no way not to infringe on pretty much any kind of video compression tech by now
The first application is not online banking. The concept of "banking" is not well developed in these areas, much less online banking.
the first application is almost exclusively simply communication. and watching pictures on the net ( no reading - language barrier ). also taking pictures.
I was in southern parts a year or so ago. gave away a phone, footwear and some shirts in person to some kids - they were super grateful.
Safe usage of the old phones is putting them in a container and sending them to rural Africa. Along with your sneakers that you didnt like, tee shirts and so on, believe me, the recipients will appreciate.
Mod parent up. GAAP accounting says ~ $14 000 loss per car, the $4k figure is a random 'creative accounting' thing
>> or a few select high-density downtown areas (perhaps SF or Chicago), you don't get a cab by raising your hand.
In SF, you get a cab by raising your hand only at times when you dont need one. At all other hours, it is impossible to hail a cab on street, and calling does not help - the guys simply dont show up. Official taxi company apps are teh suck and never work. Hence, Uber just wins by actually getting you a car when you need one.
I would not run firewall on top of the same OS that you are suspecting of shenanigans and privacy issues.
Interesting idea - a USB 'ethernet adapter' that contains a small linux SBC running OpenWRT or something akin.
Easy to accomplish with a network router that is not completely dumb. A bit more complicated when travelling, but hey a wifi-wifi repeater/router will probably do the trick.