True but Earth 93 million miles away from the sun, while Mars 142 million miles away. If I remember my old surface area of a sphere equation, the solar wind should be about 2.3 times weaker when it gets to mars. That's a lot less for it's magnetic field to have to deflect. It's still getting hit hard, but not quite as bad as the 3000 vs 400 would at first make you think.
My experience is exactly the opposite. Our department bought two Fujitsu Point510 tablet computers. This was prior to my being with them. The old tech guy for the dept had quite. Apparently he had set bios passwords on them, but didn't let anyone know what the password was.
I called Fujitsu to find out if there was a jumper on the motherboard to connect to reset it or something. Their response? "You need to contact the reseller that sold it to you for tech support". WTF??? After checking, it turns out the reseller had gone out of buisness. I called Fujitsu to find out what to do? They had no suggestion, and refused to help. I'll never buy a Fujitsu product for the rest of my life.
Yeah, I was also surprised that they thought it was strange that the tech asked them to boot from a bootable CD when the CD wasn't 'working'. If you can boot off the CD it tells you instantly that there is nothing wrong with the hardware, but it's a windows configuration problem. That's a good quick check, nothing strange about it at all.
Well, probably because he starts out with a magic bucket of icewater. Pixies dropped it off apparently, because he never states where it comes from.
The rest of us without magic pixies will have to either:
A) Buy ice at the store. Which makes the price of this 'hack' at quite a bit more than the $24 stated. Ice isn't expensive, but it does have a cost. Depending on where you live, you might use say a dollars worth a day. It's only mid June now. If you run this 'ac' unit for 3 months in the summer: 90 days at $1/day, plus the ~$24 he invested in equipment, you are already over a hundred bucks and could have bought a real air conditioner. One that will last you many years. Oh, plus your going to have to go to the store every day or two for more ice. fun fun.
B) Make the ice from a refridgerator in the room. In which case it doesn't really cool the room for the reasons already stated in the thread.
C) Make the ice from a refridgerator in another room in the house. In which case you would be cooling one room at the expense of heating another. We've already shown there will be a net increase in heat load 'somewhere'. Unless you like the other room unbearable, you will need to do something to cool it as well, another fan in a window, etc.
The pixies would be nice. But if you don't have any, I'd stick with a regular air conditioner.
Very true. But if the rental place is complaining about a window AC unit, they will probably also be complaining about that big mud puddle under his window;)
Unknown. We don't know what an Intel/Mac will cost compared to an identically equipped Intel/Microsoft or Intel/barebones/Linux machine. We'll have to wait a year until they start selling the hardware.
Is it going to be easier to run Mac OS X on generic hardware?
Once again, unknown. Everyone suspects a hack is doable, but how easy it will be and even if it will be a hardware or software hack is unknown
Has the TCO for Mac vs. Linux in the enterprise changed?
See above. Still unknown.
It's really too early to speculate on any of this stuff until we see what type of machinery Apple puts out and at what price. If they price themselves out of the market, very few will switch. If they can come anywhere close to the Dell's/IBMs/Sony/Toshiba's/etc, they will likely do very well.
If anything, it will be easier for Microsoft/Linux/*BSD folks to try out the Mac because, even if they end up spending a few hundred dollars extra to buy the machine, if they don't like OSX for whatever reason they can just install Windows/Linux/*BSD on the machine. There are no worries about trying to sell off that PPC machine at a loss.
Keeping the inside of the refrigerator cool requires less power if the ambient temperature is lower. The lower the ambient external temperature becomes, the less power is gradually required to maintain a certain temperature within the refrigerator/freezer
Umm, ok. agreed. But we are talking about a situation in summer heat where he wants to cool his place because it's too hot. The ambient temperature is not low.
You need to keep in mind that "cold" is just the absence of heat. You don't "make things cold" but rather you "remove their heat." The amount of heat that needs to be removed from the inside of the fridge/freezer can never be more than the average amount of heat in the surrounding air, unless something inside is radioactive. That is to say, nothing inside the fridge makes it innately hot that requires a lot of constant cooling.
The insulation in a refridgerator is not perfect. Heat will slowly leak in. That's why your compressor will kick on occasionally, even if you haven't opened the refridgerator door in days to put anything new in. And since we are talking about summer heat here, the temperature differential between the outside and inside air of the frige is going to be large, exacerbating the leakage.
It isn't trying to be a perpetual motion machine at all, actually. I have no idea where that statement came from. Care to elaborate?
The guy is trying to decrease the temperature load in his place, but he's actually increasing it. The perpetual motion analogy comes from getting perfect (or better) energy transfer with no loss from innefficiency. Please see http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=152600&cid=128 09501 Extra heat is going to be in his room (or house at least if the fridge is in a different room). That will require additional cooling of some form to remove that heat.
First: Ice from the corner store isn't expensive, but it does have a cost. What's he going to spend on it? A buck a day? Depending on how many days a year he needs to cool down, that can add up. He's already spent ~$25 on his funked up bucket/fan/tubing. You can find a new real air conditioner online for not much over $100, that will last you many years. Heck, you can probably find a used one very cheap from some person whos decided to upgrade to one that can move more BTU's, or someone who is putting in central air, or someone who is moving long distance/out-of-the-country and doesn't want to haul their AC unit with them.
The AC becomes a bargain quickly. Plus no running down to the corner store every day (in the heat) for more ice.
Second: Agreed. That would be much much more efficient than putting it in the freezer first. One caveat. I've lived in some apartments were the tap water actually came out warm in the summer. That kinda sucks and wouldn't work for cooling. Then again, the building owers would probably have had a fit if I were creating a big mud puddle outside my window.
Third: Yup. Build a real AC unit out of spare parts. Now that's a hack.
Look, there are a million different scenarios that could be used to decrease the heat load inside from the fridge. The point is, he could either:
A) Buy a real air-conditioner and dump the heat load immediately outside.
or
B) Spend a few hours getting parts and assembling this contraption. Which also means:
1)He will be generating more heat inside his home and have to use more methods (windows with fans, etc) to remove it.
2)He will be using more electricity (the AC works just like a frige, and will use about the same amount to pump the same amount of heat). In addition to the freezer, he's got to run at least his jury-rigged fan, plus probably another fan in the kichen to cool off that place as you said.
3)He's got a bucket, a funked up fan, and tubes running out his window. Not exactly babe-magnet decor.
4) He has to run to the freezer every few hours to swap water in the freezer/bucket.
5) He's probably got a big old mud puddle outside his window.
He's already spent 25 bucks on his jury-rigged contraption. You can buy a window AC unit for not much more than 100 bucks. It's worth the money.
The work has been shown multiple times in the various threads, but since you seem to be slow to catch on...
Starting state:
1) Room: temperature x (warm) 2) Water: temperature y (also ~room temp)
Net heat: x + y
Step 1:
Water gets put in fridge. Heat is pumped from water to room.
Result from Step 1:
Call the change of heat in the water z.
(Water gets colder. Room gets hotter. Even heat levels from that part.)
Inefficiency in the fridge adds net heat to room.
The inefficiency heat is i.
Net heat = (x + z) + (y - z) + i = x + z + i
Net Result: increased temperature from inefficiency.
Step 2:
Cold water from fridge is used to run through piping/fan to cool room. It's not done by swamp or other methods. The only thing going on is the warm air is blown past the tube of cool water, bringing the temperature of the room down, and the temperature of the water up. (The water doesn't go through any phase changes through the tubing or anything; it's simply equalizing the temperature)
Result from Step 2:
Heat n is transferred from the air to the water.
Room is warm and so is the water once again around room temp (going out the window now).
Heat m is added from the inefficiency of the fan.
(x + z - n) + (y - z + n ) + i + m
Net Result: (original heat)+ (excess heat)
x + y + i + m
We started with x + y. Now we have x + y + i + m. Seeing the problem yet?
The water going through the tubing is *not* superheated. It's not warmer than the room air. At the very best it's the same temp as the room. That's if he gets complete transfer. No net heat is removed. It's added.
Water y gets dumped out the window. What are you left with? x ++
Please show your math for your strange theory that makes this perpetual motion machine work, and show how the water in the tube is well above room temperature in order to decrease the net temperature of the room.
Do you guys all turn off your refrigerator/freezers when it gets hot?
Not me. I have ice cream and fruit, etc, that I want kept cold.
Isn't the heat that it's producing already part of the heat of the room?
The heat that the heatpump removes, yes, it's part of the overall averged heat in the room. But pumping the heat from the stuff inside the fridge (which becomes below the average room temp) raises the temperature of the rest of the room above that average temp. In addition, the motor/heatpump is not 100% efficient. The extra electricity the fridge uses in that inefficiency adds even more heat to that above averate temperature.
As the other poster mentioned, it doesn't matter what else is in the freezer. You have to remove x amount of calories of heat from the bottles of water to freeze them. You are doing that through a condensor system that is pretty much exactly the same as the type in an air conditioner. The amount of cooling from the two should be about the same with a similar about of electricity.
With this guys deal, you now have to add in inefficiency of his bucket/fan/coil system. You are spending more energy running a fan, and you probably aren't getting near 100% efficiency from a transfer of heat from the frozen water. It looks like a much less efficient system than just running an air conditioner. The only thing he avoids is the initial cash layout for an air conditioner.
As inifficent as this is, I'd buy the air conditioner. It will save you $ for the extra electricity, It will last for years, and you don't have to run around putting fresh bottles of water in the freezer, and refilling the bucket every few hours.
So, if it is environmentally friendly, just where did the "ice water" come from?
Ice Pixies magic it up, so he doesn't have to run a refridgerator/freezer to make the ice. Because, you know, those actually produce heat inside the house, which he is trying to get rid of... Pixies. Yeah, that's it.
Why you can get the ice out of the freezer/refrigerator in your kitchen. It just costs a little electricity to make. It makes it by using a condensing coil to use a gas medium to pump heat from the freezer are to coils on the back of the fridge which... then heats the room you are trying to cool. DOH!
There is no 'practical' application. It's a chance to experience space for folks who don't get to be real NASA astronauts. Lots of folks actually have dreams and imagination and would like to try it.
Were you never a kid? Have you never wanted to see the earth as a blue ball with a thin layer of hazy atmosphere against the black of space? Have you never wanted to experience serveral minutes of uninterrupted weightlessness? Lots of folks would love the chance to experience that. Unfortunatly probably only a rich few will have the chance at it from these companies.
Slashdot Mirror
True but Earth 93 million miles away from the sun, while Mars 142 million miles away. If I remember my old surface area of a sphere equation, the solar wind should be about 2.3 times weaker when it gets to mars. That's a lot less for it's magnetic field to have to deflect. It's still getting hit hard, but not quite as bad as the 3000 vs 400 would at first make you think.
I called Fujitsu to find out if there was a jumper on the motherboard to connect to reset it or something. Their response? "You need to contact the reseller that sold it to you for tech support". WTF??? After checking, it turns out the reseller had gone out of buisness. I called Fujitsu to find out what to do? They had no suggestion, and refused to help. I'll never buy a Fujitsu product for the rest of my life.
Yeah, I was also surprised that they thought it was strange that the tech asked them to boot from a bootable CD when the CD wasn't 'working'. If you can boot off the CD it tells you instantly that there is nothing wrong with the hardware, but it's a windows configuration problem. That's a good quick check, nothing strange about it at all.
What's the incentive? It's one more thing for their tech support people to have to support.
The rest of us without magic pixies will have to either:
A) Buy ice at the store. Which makes the price of this 'hack' at quite a bit more than the $24 stated. Ice isn't expensive, but it does have a cost. Depending on where you live, you might use say a dollars worth a day. It's only mid June now. If you run this 'ac' unit for 3 months in the summer: 90 days at $1/day, plus the ~$24 he invested in equipment, you are already over a hundred bucks and could have bought a real air conditioner. One that will last you many years. Oh, plus your going to have to go to the store every day or two for more ice. fun fun.
B) Make the ice from a refridgerator in the room. In which case it doesn't really cool the room for the reasons already stated in the thread.
C) Make the ice from a refridgerator in another room in the house. In which case you would be cooling one room at the expense of heating another. We've already shown there will be a net increase in heat load 'somewhere'. Unless you like the other room unbearable, you will need to do something to cool it as well, another fan in a window, etc.
The pixies would be nice. But if you don't have any, I'd stick with a regular air conditioner.
Very true. But if the rental place is complaining about a window AC unit, they will probably also be complaining about that big mud puddle under his window ;)
Unknown. We don't know what an Intel/Mac will cost compared to an identically equipped Intel/Microsoft or Intel/barebones/Linux machine. We'll have to wait a year until they start selling the hardware.
Is it going to be easier to run Mac OS X on generic hardware?
Once again, unknown. Everyone suspects a hack is doable, but how easy it will be and even if it will be a hardware or software hack is unknown
Has the TCO for Mac vs. Linux in the enterprise changed?
See above. Still unknown.
It's really too early to speculate on any of this stuff until we see what type of machinery Apple puts out and at what price. If they price themselves out of the market, very few will switch. If they can come anywhere close to the Dell's/IBMs/Sony/Toshiba's/etc, they will likely do very well.
If anything, it will be easier for Microsoft/Linux/*BSD folks to try out the Mac because, even if they end up spending a few hundred dollars extra to buy the machine, if they don't like OSX for whatever reason they can just install Windows/Linux/*BSD on the machine. There are no worries about trying to sell off that PPC machine at a loss.
Umm, ok. agreed. But we are talking about a situation in summer heat where he wants to cool his place because it's too hot. The ambient temperature is not low.
You need to keep in mind that "cold" is just the absence of heat. You don't "make things cold" but rather you "remove their heat." The amount of heat that needs to be removed from the inside of the fridge/freezer can never be more than the average amount of heat in the surrounding air, unless something inside is radioactive. That is to say, nothing inside the fridge makes it innately hot that requires a lot of constant cooling.
The insulation in a refridgerator is not perfect. Heat will slowly leak in. That's why your compressor will kick on occasionally, even if you haven't opened the refridgerator door in days to put anything new in. And since we are talking about summer heat here, the temperature differential between the outside and inside air of the frige is going to be large, exacerbating the leakage.
It isn't trying to be a perpetual motion machine at all, actually. I have no idea where that statement came from. Care to elaborate?
The guy is trying to decrease the temperature load in his place, but he's actually increasing it. The perpetual motion analogy comes from getting perfect (or better) energy transfer with no loss from innefficiency. Please see http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=152600&cid=128 09501 Extra heat is going to be in his room (or house at least if the fridge is in a different room). That will require additional cooling of some form to remove that heat.
First: Ice from the corner store isn't expensive, but it does have a cost. What's he going to spend on it? A buck a day? Depending on how many days a year he needs to cool down, that can add up. He's already spent ~$25 on his funked up bucket/fan/tubing. You can find a new real air conditioner online for not much over $100, that will last you many years. Heck, you can probably find a used one very cheap from some person whos decided to upgrade to one that can move more BTU's, or someone who is putting in central air, or someone who is moving long distance/out-of-the-country and doesn't want to haul their AC unit with them.
The AC becomes a bargain quickly. Plus no running down to the corner store every day (in the heat) for more ice.
Second: Agreed. That would be much much more efficient than putting it in the freezer first. One caveat. I've lived in some apartments were the tap water actually came out warm in the summer. That kinda sucks and wouldn't work for cooling. Then again, the building owers would probably have had a fit if I were creating a big mud puddle outside my window.
Third: Yup. Build a real AC unit out of spare parts. Now that's a hack.
Look, there are a million different scenarios that could be used to decrease the heat load inside from the fridge. The point is, he could either:
A) Buy a real air-conditioner and dump the heat load immediately outside.
or
B) Spend a few hours getting parts and assembling this contraption. Which also means:
1)He will be generating more heat inside his home and have to use more methods (windows with fans, etc) to remove it.
2)He will be using more electricity (the AC works just like a frige, and will use about the same amount to pump the same amount of heat). In addition to the freezer, he's got to run at least his jury-rigged fan, plus probably another fan in the kichen to cool off that place as you said.
3)He's got a bucket, a funked up fan, and tubes running out his window. Not exactly babe-magnet decor.
4) He has to run to the freezer every few hours to swap water in the freezer/bucket.
5) He's probably got a big old mud puddle outside his window.
He's already spent 25 bucks on his jury-rigged contraption. You can buy a window AC unit for not much more than 100 bucks. It's worth the money.
If you have enough money, you can hire the guys with the great minds for breakthroughs.
The work has been shown multiple times in the various threads, but since you seem to be slow to catch on...
Starting state:
1) Room: temperature x (warm)
2) Water: temperature y (also ~room temp)
Net heat: x + y
Step 1:
Water gets put in fridge. Heat is pumped from water to room.
Result from Step 1:
Call the change of heat in the water z.
(Water gets colder. Room gets hotter. Even heat levels from that part.)
Inefficiency in the fridge adds net heat to room.
The inefficiency heat is i.
Net heat = (x + z) + (y - z) + i = x + z + i
Net Result: increased temperature from inefficiency.
Step 2:
Cold water from fridge is used to run through piping/fan to cool room. It's not done by swamp or other methods. The only thing going on is the warm air is blown past the tube of cool water, bringing the temperature of the room down, and the temperature of the water up. (The water doesn't go through any phase changes through the tubing or anything; it's simply equalizing the temperature)
Result from Step 2:
Heat n is transferred from the air to the water.
Room is warm and so is the water once again around room temp (going out the window now).
Heat m is added from the inefficiency of the fan.
(x + z - n) + (y - z + n ) + i + m
Net Result: (original heat)+ (excess heat)
x + y + i + m
We started with x + y. Now we have x + y + i + m.
Seeing the problem yet?
The water going through the tubing is *not* superheated. It's not warmer than the room air. At the very best it's the same temp as the room. That's if he gets complete transfer. No net heat is removed. It's added.
Water y gets dumped out the window. What are you left with? x ++
Please show your math for your strange theory that makes this perpetual motion machine work, and show how the water in the tube is well above room temperature in order to decrease the net temperature of the room.
And thanks for playing.
Are you talking to me? I already said the device didn't work because it was trying to be a perpetual motion machine (or even more efficient)...
No. I simply know enough physics not to believe in a perpetual motion machine.
Not me. I have ice cream and fruit, etc, that I want kept cold.
Isn't the heat that it's producing already part of the heat of the room?
The heat that the heatpump removes, yes, it's part of the overall averged heat in the room. But pumping the heat from the stuff inside the fridge (which becomes below the average room temp) raises the temperature of the rest of the room above that average temp. In addition, the motor/heatpump is not 100% efficient. The extra electricity the fridge uses in that inefficiency adds even more heat to that above averate temperature.
Ottawa? Don't the OpenBSD folks hang out there occasionally? You might not have any penguins, but maybe there are some blowfish. :)
1)Air conditioner
vs
2) Bucket of icewater, funky coils running to a fan, tube out the window... and you running in and out to refill things...
You do the math.
With this guys deal, you now have to add in inefficiency of his bucket/fan/coil system. You are spending more energy running a fan, and you probably aren't getting near 100% efficiency from a transfer of heat from the frozen water. It looks like a much less efficient system than just running an air conditioner. The only thing he avoids is the initial cash layout for an air conditioner.
As inifficent as this is, I'd buy the air conditioner. It will save you $ for the extra electricity, It will last for years, and you don't have to run around putting fresh bottles of water in the freezer, and refilling the bucket every few hours.
Ice Pixies magic it up, so he doesn't have to run a refridgerator/freezer to make the ice. Because, you know, those actually produce heat inside the house, which he is trying to get rid of... Pixies. Yeah, that's it.
Why you can get the ice out of the freezer/refrigerator in your kitchen. It just costs a little electricity to make. It makes it by using a condensing coil to use a gas medium to pump heat from the freezer are to coils on the back of the fridge which... then heats the room you are trying to cool. DOH!
Who runs X on their servers?
come to the darkside
No! No, no,..... ahh, ok. Installing vim... </anakin>
Pico rules! You bloody vi and Emacs l0sers! ;)
There is no 'practical' application. It's a chance to experience space for folks who don't get to be real NASA astronauts. Lots of folks actually have dreams and imagination and would like to try it.
Were you never a kid? Have you never wanted to see the earth as a blue ball with a thin layer of hazy atmosphere against the black of space? Have you never wanted to experience serveral minutes of uninterrupted weightlessness? Lots of folks would love the chance to experience that. Unfortunatly probably only a rich few will have the chance at it from these companies.