If they're really there, it's an empty threat. If the French can see them then so can anyone else with a telescope. It's likely everyone else of consequence already knows about them.
Simply put, we need to store it somewhere. If Yucca mountain is the best we got, then that's the best we got. It may not be a panacea, but storage in above ground casks in-situ is orders of magnitude worse.
So, now you're going to ask, would you say that, if it were in my back yard?
I've been trained as a rad worker. I've a degree in applied physics. I understand the risks. I live within 20 miles of 2 commercial power reactors and 13 naval reactors (counting ships in google maps satellite image). In addition, I'm down the street from Newport News Shipyard, where they build, test, and refuel nuclear aircraft carriers and subs.
Locating a reactor near a water source is a convenience, not a requirement. Besides, the rising sea level isn't going to affect units on rivers. By the way, you wouldn't be looking at on-site storate of the reactor components if the powers that be would allow the repository to open.
I like the skynet reference. It sends me down a mental path that goes something like:
....And in 2009, the massive botnet revealed itself as a nascient artificial intelligence. It had been active since 2005 but had been biding it's time while it was gathering additional nodes to increase redundancy and add to it's own processing capability....
That's great. Anything, any improvement that helps detect cancer(s) earlier is worth it's weight in gold (so to speak).
soapbox_mode However, it won't do any good unless the insurance companies will cover it. I was sick for 4 to 5 months. I was running a mild fever continuously, felt miserable and was tired constantly. For months my doctor screwed around, because he knows the HMO won't approve a thorough test. I got the run around, "It must be a systemic infection, let's try this antibiotic." Then, "That didn't work, let's try this one." etc. He ran the limited blood tests that the HMO allowed, which showed nothing. Then one day I go to the emergency room because I'm having trouble breathing, where they do a simple x-ray and they come back with "Hey, there's a 2 1/2" mass pushing against your trachea." Insanity. /soapbox_mode
will be the mainstay. Someone will find commercial value in doing work off planet and from that point forward, permanent habitats will be self sustaining (in terms of population -- you'll still need imports from Earth to survive).
As for the next 50 years, I expect commercial access to low Earth orbit to be the limit achived by private enterprise. Of course, private companies provide the equipment for the future manned lunar launches. Given that they have the technology, a few corporations will be capable of sending people and supplies off world; but, they will be waiting for someone to come along with a viable business model to foot the bill for the launch vehicles, equipment, shelters, etc. Until then, it will remain goverment funded.
This is just one of those cases where, if you build the infrastructure, the people will follow; but, you have to build the infrastructure first. This is such a hard thing to do, governments are going to have to do it. Once there's a destination and some capacity to travel back and forth, business' will become interested in taking over different aspects. Once they're in, corporations will look for other ways to make money from the resources. Once they find ways to make money, they'll build out, hire people, etc. I wouldn't expect this to happen for 100-150 years.
You're like most people. It's how the brain works. We have to write it down or spend time "hands on" in order to learn. That's what the homework assignments and labs are for. There is a method to my madness...
One thing that really frustrates me is when I am pressed to copy something. I've run into plenty of teachers who can write on a blackboard faster than I can on paper.
If you're expending 100% of your efforts trying to copy the stuff down, you're not learning, you're transcribing. The key is to hand out the lecture notes then really make the class interactive. Ask questions. Make the students solve problems together. Then balance that with homework assignments that let students practice the skills and tests their knowledge. It doesn't hurt to make them think a little too.
soapbox_mode A good teacher will use the homework as feedback indicating how effective their teaching methods are and how well the students are learning the material. /soapbox_mode
For what it's worth... I graduated high school decades ago. I am not a teacher. I have a degree in applied physicist.
Wiping the dust off the panels would do more harm than good because it would scratch them up. Anti-static function won't work either because a.) it would require more power than they had and b.) what is the typical polarity of the Martian dust?
Nope. Do what you can with the power you have now. The work done will accumulate more slowly; but, you're still making progress. When (if) the "cleaning event" occurs, ramp up operations.
One way the tablet is better than a blackboard is that you can save a written copy of your lecture, and make copies available to the students. That way they can spend their time paying attention to the lecture, instead of rushing to copy everything down. This can make the class more interactive.
The PC can be used, in general, to demo the physics and calculus principles through animation. It can be a useful teaching tool, just don't let it replace the hands on activities usually done in the lab portions of the course. Sometimes doing is better than seeing.
I think what they're doing is setting it up so that if your current X configuration gets screwed up, you swap video cards, or something "bad" happens, it will default to the VESA mode and prompt the user to fix the problem. This may have been possible for some time; but, I believe the default behavior is to crash X and drop the user to a command prompt. In fact, another poster suggested that it's like a one line change in a script file to make it drop back to VESA mode and retry when X crashes. The solution Canonical is proposing seems a little more robust though.
Right. I'm not suggesting that people actually continue to use basic VESA modes, just that they're made available as a launching point for doing the driver install. Windows depends on these same modes for the same reason, to bring the machine up for the first time. Low resolution and dog slow performance is acceptable, if only for the 10-20 minutes needed to get the driver working. After that, you may never use that functionality again. As an engineer, I wouldn't expect to spend much time at all on VESA mode.
Does VESA 640x480 work? Check. Moving on...
I've got a laptop which first came up displaying VGA 640x480 as a little box in the center of the 1024x768 pixel display. It's an ugly hack, but it got the job done long enough for me to select the correct driver for X.
The problem is with the people claiming that a GUI is NECESSARY.
For the average user, it is. Grandma needs a simple interface, like a GUI, to get things done.
Years ago we had DOS. And we ran WordPerfect. And we ran Lotus 123. A GUI is not necessary. It is nice. But it is not necessary.
Poor example. Both WordPerfect and Lotus provided a visual representation of the work. In both cases, you could hit a simple key combo and get a list of commands. It wasn't a GUI, but it was a close to a GUI as you could get with the technology of the time.
No one is saying that it would hurt Linux adoption. Just that the argument that a GUI is necessary is incorrect.
The *nix way is to use text configuration files and have command line programs which do some job. These are still present in most of the GUI interfaces in *nix, the GUI simply modifies the config file or calls the command line interface. This leaves the power in the hands of those who want or need it, in order to deal with unusual situations. The average user, however, does not want go to the trouble of reading the man page(s) and typing commands at a prompt. For the typical situation, they want a simple click and play interface.
No one is forcing them. No one is saying that they should not have that option. Just that the argument that a GUI is necessary is incorrect.
Again, I disagree. And by not making the GUI available, you are forcing them to learn the unix command set.
And by "trying Linux out" you mean "complaining that it isn't exactly like Windows. Linux is NOT Windows and anyone who is honestly "trying Linux out" will try to learn the differences.
It is different. However, this is the kind of argument, made by the community members, which keeps people from trying linux. If you tell someone "tough, that's just the way it is!", or call them a n00b, then they're not going to be very happy with the experience. If you try to make them comfortable, honestly listen to their critiques and suggestions, they might adopt the product.
Of course I can. Since I went through the learning experience I am better suited to know what the differences are and what the minimum skills required are. Again, Linux is NOT Windows. People spent time learning Windows. Why do you expect a completely different system to exactly the same?
I've been using Apple, Microsoft and *nix products for 20 years. I think I'm qualified to know what the minimum skills required are too. *nix isn't Windows. People can't expect it to behave like Windows. People can expect it to behave similar to Windows. We must keep these people in mind if we're expecting Windows users to migrate to *nix, and provide that option.
Ever drive a manual transmission? It's different from an automatic. It requires a different skill set.
What you're proposing is not that we make the users learn to drive a manual transmission. What you're suggesting is closer to making the users learn to do all the maintenance: change the oil, replace belts, change brake pads, tune up the car. Typical users want to get into the car, turn the key, and drive. They may not even care how the car works, just that it does; and, they're content to bring it to a technician periodically to do the maintenance or repairs.
Which is why I get so many calls to fix broken Windows boxes.
No, you get calls to fix so many Windows boxes because Windows boxes represent >90% of the desktop market. Windows 2k, XP, and 2k3 are pretty stable and aren't that hard to fix. You can screw up a linux box just as bad as any Windows box.
What happens when the "click here to fix all the problems" GUI does not launch?
With Windows, you bring it to me.
And, that's how it should be. When the GUI interface, which should handle most situatio
It's in the manufacturer's best interest to support some basic video modes. This allows the integrator or the end user to bring the machine up so that they can install the drivers. It doesn't require a Microsoft or Apple to make this happen, it's just common sense.
My Microsoft and Apple comment is referring to the fact that they make certain there is a friendly user interface for doing the configuration.
I have run into an occasional video chip that doesn't work well, such as an integrated Via chipset that would only work in the most rudimentary mode(s). However, if you are using an ATI/AMD, nVidia or Intel graphics chipset, which by the way account for most of the market, it's likely to be supported by X.org or a manufacturer's driver. Support for Via and SiS isn't as good; but, for the most part they work.
This is 100% correct. The average user, when confronted with a command prompt or having been told they need to edit text config files, will just give up. It's too much trouble at that point, too hard to figure out. You, I and perhaps the average/. member can and do deal with that every day. The typical user just wants the computer to work. If they have to configure something, they want a simple GUI with a set of options from which to choose. It needs to be simple, like radio buttons, or a drop down list, populated with only the relevant options.
That's what I thought. You, I and perhaps the average/. member can deal with that. A typical non-techy user can't. It should be default for a desktop to drop back into a debug/setup GUI when something critical, like X, fails to start. That's not just my opinion, that's the expectation of millions of Windows and Mac users who have come to depend on that kind of behavior.
Yeah we will. Don't ever, for a second, think that Microsoft and Windows will just go away. They're too entrenched, with OEM's offering Windows pre-installed by default on some >90% of desktop machines sold. If linux ever reaches 10% adoption on the desktop, I'd call that success! (compare that to Apple's numbers, which I believe are on the order of ~7% right now, based on sales)
I don't recall Sax2 starting automatically if I hosed my X settings. I seem to recall having to edit config files from a shell prompt and text editor last time, after I misconfigured X and rebooted the machine. FWIW I haven't used Suse since version 10; maybe it's improved.
I want to re-iterate some of what's been said here. Just to be clear, I'm no *nix n00b. I learned on VMS and IBM VM/CMS then moved to a mixed VMS, Ultrix, HP-UX and SunOS/Solaris environment in 1991. I started using redhat in 1995, switched to Suse in 2002, and to Ubuntu in 2007. I work as an engineer and do some software development. At home I have a Windows box which gets used for work and acts as a file and print server (since it's the more powerful machine). Beside it is a linux box that likewise gets used for dev work and cross compiling code. I am capable of dealing with problems that may arise on either the Windows or *nix platform.
In my kitchen is a laptop. It's running Ubuntu. It's the machine my non-techy wife uses. She has been using linux since 2002 and I would guess she represents a "typical" user. Present her with a GUI, dialog boxes, a clear and user friendly interface and she's fine; put her in front of a shell prompt and she's lost.
Features like this "Failsafe Graphics Mode" are critical if we expect more widespread adoption of linux. This is where Microsoft and Apple have done a very good job of making it easy for a typical person with limited or no technical background to configure and use the machines. A previous poster suggested that linux has always had a failsafe mode; but, booting into single user mode and dumping someone at a shell prompt is not good enough. At that point most people would give up. We have to work to make the platform as user friendly as possible if we expect it to be adopted. linux needs more of these user friendly interfaces for diagnosing problems and configuring hardware. That laptop my wife uses, in order to get the wifi interface to work I had to drop back to a command prompt to troubleshoot the problem, then edit a couple of configuration files to make it work. (and for the record, it's a Ralink 2500 based card made by Asus, which is supposed to be well supported) That's just unacceptable to most users. Let's try to keep the typical end user in mind when we design these projects. I think the folks working on Ubuntu are setting a fine example.
Slashdot Mirror
If they're really there, it's an empty threat. If the French can see them then so can anyone else with a telescope. It's likely everyone else of consequence already knows about them.
What? You're saying that don't have a local copy, a back up of that, and an off-site backup stored somewhere? Say it isn't so! (fwiw that's sarcasm)
Simply put, we need to store it somewhere. If Yucca mountain is the best we got, then that's the best we got. It may not be a panacea, but storage in above ground casks in-situ is orders of magnitude worse.
So, now you're going to ask, would you say that, if it were in my back yard?
I've been trained as a rad worker. I've a degree in applied physics. I understand the risks. I live within 20 miles of 2 commercial power reactors and 13 naval reactors (counting ships in google maps satellite image). In addition, I'm down the street from Newport News Shipyard, where they build, test, and refuel nuclear aircraft carriers and subs.
It is in my back yard.
Homo sapien is just an evolutionary step. Basically, we're simply nature's quick and dirty way of computing, with meat.
---who said that???
Locating a reactor near a water source is a convenience, not a requirement. Besides, the rising sea level isn't going to affect units on rivers. By the way, you wouldn't be looking at on-site storate of the reactor components if the powers that be would allow the repository to open.
....And in 2009, the massive botnet revealed itself as a nascient artificial intelligence. It had been active since 2005 but had been biding it's time while it was gathering additional nodes to increase redundancy and add to it's own processing capability....
soapbox_mode
/soapbox_mode
However, it won't do any good unless the insurance companies will cover it. I was sick for 4 to 5 months. I was running a mild fever continuously, felt miserable and was tired constantly. For months my doctor screwed around, because he knows the HMO won't approve a thorough test. I got the run around, "It must be a systemic infection, let's try this antibiotic." Then, "That didn't work, let's try this one." etc. He ran the limited blood tests that the HMO allowed, which showed nothing. Then one day I go to the emergency room because I'm having trouble breathing, where they do a simple x-ray and they come back with "Hey, there's a 2 1/2" mass pushing against your trachea." Insanity.
will be the mainstay. Someone will find commercial value in doing work off planet and from that point forward, permanent habitats will be self sustaining (in terms of population -- you'll still need imports from Earth to survive).
As for the next 50 years, I expect commercial access to low Earth orbit to be the limit achived by private enterprise. Of course, private companies provide the equipment for the future manned lunar launches. Given that they have the technology, a few corporations will be capable of sending people and supplies off world; but, they will be waiting for someone to come along with a viable business model to foot the bill for the launch vehicles, equipment, shelters, etc. Until then, it will remain goverment funded.
This is just one of those cases where, if you build the infrastructure, the people will follow; but, you have to build the infrastructure first. This is such a hard thing to do, governments are going to have to do it. Once there's a destination and some capacity to travel back and forth, business' will become interested in taking over different aspects. Once they're in, corporations will look for other ways to make money from the resources. Once they find ways to make money, they'll build out, hire people, etc. I wouldn't expect this to happen for 100-150 years.
Have you not seen Firefly? It was foretold that China and the US will team up in order to ditch this rock.
"lying cars" already exist. Plenty of people have run into trouble when the navigation system in the car tells them a lie...
"Turn left now"
But there is no left.
You're like most people. It's how the brain works. We have to write it down or spend time "hands on" in order to learn. That's what the homework assignments and labs are for. There is a method to my madness...
/soapbox_mode
One thing that really frustrates me is when I am pressed to copy something. I've run into plenty of teachers who can write on a blackboard faster than I can on paper.
If you're expending 100% of your efforts trying to copy the stuff down, you're not learning, you're transcribing. The key is to hand out the lecture notes then really make the class interactive. Ask questions. Make the students solve problems together. Then balance that with homework assignments that let students practice the skills and tests their knowledge. It doesn't hurt to make them think a little too.
soapbox_mode
A good teacher will use the homework as feedback indicating how effective their teaching methods are and how well the students are learning the material.
For what it's worth... I graduated high school decades ago. I am not a teacher. I have a degree in applied physicist.
Wiping the dust off the panels would do more harm than good because it would scratch them up. Anti-static function won't work either because a.) it would require more power than they had and b.) what is the typical polarity of the Martian dust?
Nope. Do what you can with the power you have now. The work done will accumulate more slowly; but, you're still making progress. When (if) the "cleaning event" occurs, ramp up operations.
You do realize they measure progress in feet per day? Yeah, Mars is smaller than Earth, but it's not THAT small.
One way the tablet is better than a blackboard is that you can save a written copy of your lecture, and make copies available to the students. That way they can spend their time paying attention to the lecture, instead of rushing to copy everything down. This can make the class more interactive.
The PC can be used, in general, to demo the physics and calculus principles through animation. It can be a useful teaching tool, just don't let it replace the hands on activities usually done in the lab portions of the course. Sometimes doing is better than seeing.
I think what they're doing is setting it up so that if your current X configuration gets screwed up, you swap video cards, or something "bad" happens, it will default to the VESA mode and prompt the user to fix the problem. This may have been possible for some time; but, I believe the default behavior is to crash X and drop the user to a command prompt. In fact, another poster suggested that it's like a one line change in a script file to make it drop back to VESA mode and retry when X crashes. The solution Canonical is proposing seems a little more robust though.
Right. I'm not suggesting that people actually continue to use basic VESA modes, just that they're made available as a launching point for doing the driver install. Windows depends on these same modes for the same reason, to bring the machine up for the first time. Low resolution and dog slow performance is acceptable, if only for the 10-20 minutes needed to get the driver working. After that, you may never use that functionality again. As an engineer, I wouldn't expect to spend much time at all on VESA mode.
Does VESA 640x480 work? Check. Moving on...
I've got a laptop which first came up displaying VGA 640x480 as a little box in the center of the 1024x768 pixel display. It's an ugly hack, but it got the job done long enough for me to select the correct driver for X.
The problem is with the people claiming that a GUI is NECESSARY.
For the average user, it is. Grandma needs a simple interface, like a GUI, to get things done.
Years ago we had DOS. And we ran WordPerfect. And we ran Lotus 123. A GUI is not necessary. It is nice. But it is not necessary.
Poor example. Both WordPerfect and Lotus provided a visual representation of the work. In both cases, you could hit a simple key combo and get a list of commands. It wasn't a GUI, but it was a close to a GUI as you could get with the technology of the time.
No one is saying that it would hurt Linux adoption. Just that the argument that a GUI is necessary is incorrect.
The *nix way is to use text configuration files and have command line programs which do some job. These are still present in most of the GUI interfaces in *nix, the GUI simply modifies the config file or calls the command line interface. This leaves the power in the hands of those who want or need it, in order to deal with unusual situations. The average user, however, does not want go to the trouble of reading the man page(s) and typing commands at a prompt. For the typical situation, they want a simple click and play interface.
No one is forcing them. No one is saying that they should not have that option. Just that the argument that a GUI is necessary is incorrect.
Again, I disagree. And by not making the GUI available, you are forcing them to learn the unix command set.
And by "trying Linux out" you mean "complaining that it isn't exactly like Windows. Linux is NOT Windows and anyone who is honestly "trying Linux out" will try to learn the differences.
It is different. However, this is the kind of argument, made by the community members, which keeps people from trying linux. If you tell someone "tough, that's just the way it is!", or call them a n00b, then they're not going to be very happy with the experience. If you try to make them comfortable, honestly listen to their critiques and suggestions, they might adopt the product.
Of course I can. Since I went through the learning experience I am better suited to know what the differences are and what the minimum skills required are. Again, Linux is NOT Windows. People spent time learning Windows. Why do you expect a completely different system to exactly the same?
I've been using Apple, Microsoft and *nix products for 20 years. I think I'm qualified to know what the minimum skills required are too. *nix isn't Windows. People can't expect it to behave like Windows. People can expect it to behave similar to Windows. We must keep these people in mind if we're expecting Windows users to migrate to *nix, and provide that option.
Ever drive a manual transmission? It's different from an automatic. It requires a different skill set.
What you're proposing is not that we make the users learn to drive a manual transmission. What you're suggesting is closer to making the users learn to do all the maintenance: change the oil, replace belts, change brake pads, tune up the car. Typical users want to get into the car, turn the key, and drive. They may not even care how the car works, just that it does; and, they're content to bring it to a technician periodically to do the maintenance or repairs.
Which is why I get so many calls to fix broken Windows boxes.
No, you get calls to fix so many Windows boxes because Windows boxes represent >90% of the desktop market. Windows 2k, XP, and 2k3 are pretty stable and aren't that hard to fix. You can screw up a linux box just as bad as any Windows box.
What happens when the "click here to fix all the problems" GUI does not launch? With Windows, you bring it to me.
And, that's how it should be. When the GUI interface, which should handle most situatio
It's in the manufacturer's best interest to support some basic video modes. This allows the integrator or the end user to bring the machine up so that they can install the drivers. It doesn't require a Microsoft or Apple to make this happen, it's just common sense.
My Microsoft and Apple comment is referring to the fact that they make certain there is a friendly user interface for doing the configuration.
I have run into an occasional video chip that doesn't work well, such as an integrated Via chipset that would only work in the most rudimentary mode(s). However, if you are using an ATI/AMD, nVidia or Intel graphics chipset, which by the way account for most of the market, it's likely to be supported by X.org or a manufacturer's driver. Support for Via and SiS isn't as good; but, for the most part they work.
I chose an Ralink card specifically because it's NOT reverse engineered code. The manufacturer has been providing direct support to the community.
This is 100% correct. The average user, when confronted with a command prompt or having been told they need to edit text config files, will just give up. It's too much trouble at that point, too hard to figure out. You, I and perhaps the average /. member can and do deal with that every day. The typical user just wants the computer to work. If they have to configure something, they want a simple GUI with a set of options from which to choose. It needs to be simple, like radio buttons, or a drop down list, populated with only the relevant options.
That's what I thought. You, I and perhaps the average /. member can deal with that. A typical non-techy user can't. It should be default for a desktop to drop back into a debug/setup GUI when something critical, like X, fails to start. That's not just my opinion, that's the expectation of millions of Windows and Mac users who have come to depend on that kind of behavior.
Yeah we will. Don't ever, for a second, think that Microsoft and Windows will just go away. They're too entrenched, with OEM's offering Windows pre-installed by default on some >90% of desktop machines sold. If linux ever reaches 10% adoption on the desktop, I'd call that success! (compare that to Apple's numbers, which I believe are on the order of ~7% right now, based on sales)
I don't recall Sax2 starting automatically if I hosed my X settings. I seem to recall having to edit config files from a shell prompt and text editor last time, after I misconfigured X and rebooted the machine. FWIW I haven't used Suse since version 10; maybe it's improved.
I want to re-iterate some of what's been said here. Just to be clear, I'm no *nix n00b. I learned on VMS and IBM VM/CMS then moved to a mixed VMS, Ultrix, HP-UX and SunOS/Solaris environment in 1991. I started using redhat in 1995, switched to Suse in 2002, and to Ubuntu in 2007. I work as an engineer and do some software development. At home I have a Windows box which gets used for work and acts as a file and print server (since it's the more powerful machine). Beside it is a linux box that likewise gets used for dev work and cross compiling code. I am capable of dealing with problems that may arise on either the Windows or *nix platform.
In my kitchen is a laptop. It's running Ubuntu. It's the machine my non-techy wife uses. She has been using linux since 2002 and I would guess she represents a "typical" user. Present her with a GUI, dialog boxes, a clear and user friendly interface and she's fine; put her in front of a shell prompt and she's lost.
Features like this "Failsafe Graphics Mode" are critical if we expect more widespread adoption of linux. This is where Microsoft and Apple have done a very good job of making it easy for a typical person with limited or no technical background to configure and use the machines. A previous poster suggested that linux has always had a failsafe mode; but, booting into single user mode and dumping someone at a shell prompt is not good enough. At that point most people would give up. We have to work to make the platform as user friendly as possible if we expect it to be adopted. linux needs more of these user friendly interfaces for diagnosing problems and configuring hardware. That laptop my wife uses, in order to get the wifi interface to work I had to drop back to a command prompt to troubleshoot the problem, then edit a couple of configuration files to make it work. (and for the record, it's a Ralink 2500 based card made by Asus, which is supposed to be well supported) That's just unacceptable to most users. Let's try to keep the typical end user in mind when we design these projects. I think the folks working on Ubuntu are setting a fine example.