Waaayyyy back, I had my license suspended for a while because I had too many speeding tickets. Wait, there is a point. During that suspension, I remember walking ( yeah, I didnt drive during that time ), down a sidewalk, and seeing a police car edge up to the street from a parking lot. There was a barrier down the middle of the street he was pulling onto up to the light, and down to the next block. So, he *should* have pull out, gone toward the light, then made a U turn. Instead, he went the wrong way ( at fairly high speed ) at night ( no siren, no flashing lights ), then cut over at the next block away from the light. I remember this so vividly, because of the license suspension being in force. Urked me, it did.
No, just that Gnomes need to do what the Gnome Guild(s) dictate. If you visit a new city with a different Guild, you need to obey that Guild, if you want to peddle wands there.
To me, it all seems to boil ( pun intended ) down to
A: determine honestly to the best of our ability what and when
and how ( leaving if on the table ) we humans will be affected.
and no dilly dallying or politicing, or hiding heads in sand.
B: once we know that, decide how we semicollectively want to respond.
options seem to include getting us off the earth, and letting it
go the way it wants to, while we terraform lifeless ( hopefully )
planets elsewhere, space stations, etc, etc. Or deciding to
taylor earth better to our liking ( would not be my first choice ).
and think of other strategies.
They gave away their entire source code? Where is it?
There is a tactic used sometimes in lawsuits. The other side wants a document. You give them that document, buried in a trailer full of fluff that is useless, good luck finding it. Then you can tell the judge that you gave it to the opposition, and be truthfull.
Having read some of Microsoft's current documentation, some of it is OK, but usually the parts needed for the more advanced stuff is technically there, but hard to use and not very discoverable. I cant imagine the documentation on stuff they *dont* want being very good.
An example... I am trying to add some code into an app I have under development. This code needs to query the printer before printing a document, as the forms are preprinted, and have to be carefully controlled, as they are redeemable for money ( they are bail bond document, the actual document that jail would accept to bail a person out ).
The documentation on Win32_Printer ( CIM_Printer ) implies good things. Nothing about how to use it. Nothing that tells me ( until I pushed thru all the stupid stuff, and got it working ) that the data that I get back is only from the driver on the machine, not from the printer itself ( and therefore, useless to me ).
Still looking. Not much of help.
I recall looking at the sockets documentation when Visual Studio 6 was still "the thing". If you didnt know socket programming, it was pretty useless. Most of the MultiThreading documentation seemed to be about telling me that I was not smart enough to do it.
So, I dont know. Maybe they gave out good quality documentation ( source code can tell you what, but you have to figure out why, which other documentation should give you ), but having watched Microsoft thru two US federal cases, and the state issues, and how hard they worked to spin the issue, prove their case in the court of public opinion rather than the court of law, it is entirely too easy to believe that they are gaming this one.
You forgot about the OEM agreements that made it so that the price of any competing OS product had the windows price added to it ( making even free look pricey, distorting the market, ensuring people bought Microsoft ).
That is communication to the public. Not communication to the EU body that they are in trouble with. If they *really* dont understand ( and I expect that they do ), they can ask *that body* for clarification ( and they probably have had a few go arounds ).
And what good are the "independant" studies? They are not part of the court system, unless they have been asked to testify, so that is just more PR, not working thru the issue.
It is my opinion that Microsoft knows pretty much what is expected of them, and that they dont want to do it. All the PR is just to attempt to bring pressure to bear on the govt to relent.
I dont personally think Microsoft would do anything like that. They might do something like "well, we are not allowed to do business in the EU. We would love to see this corrected, but our hands are tied. Until this is resolved, we will not be able to provide tech support to our EU customers". This will brnig pressure to bear on the EU government to "correct" the situation, and not endanger (they will hope) the ability to keep their customers, and the revenue they represent. ( keeping them from thinking, "well, time to accelerate or begin our investigation into other options" )
See, with your announcement, Microsoft can be perceived as the bad guy. They will want to look like the good guys, just doing what they can.
I was ignoring the issue of how workers in group "A" would transfer the results of their labor to workers in group "B" to further work with. And no, I was not thinging that each worker would have to create everything from scratch.
You are right, this can happen in capitalism. It could happen other ways as well. Capital is a good "fluid" for this to happen with, it seems to me that others could be come up with. Communism, as Marx envisioned it, not as hijacked in Russia, et al, ( assuming it could be made workable ) is one thought ( not that I think we humans could do it well ), while morally and ethically repugnant, slavery involves work, but no capital.
And you have a good point about the criticisms of capitalism, but, again, I was, for illustration, thinking of "person as worker" as distinct from "person as capital holder", even when they are the same person. A note, I am not totaly against capitalism. I think it works fairly well, by and large, and we know it better than anything else, and it works better than most anything else we know. I just think we are putting the cart before the donkey when we start saying that Capital is more important than workers.
Workers would have the products of other workers to work with.
I challenge you, get rid of your preconceived notions of how things are done now and ponder. Yes, in today's economy, workers would not do anything without capital. But that is not the beginning or the end of the subject.
Money cant do anything without workers.
Thought experiment. Two companies, one has money, but 0 ( zero ) workers ( no one, not even the owner can provide any service or product ), one has 0 ( zero ) money, but workers willing to work and produce a product or service. The second company does not stand much of a chance in todays world, but at least that chance is non-zero. The first companies chance is zero.
On robots, who is going to produce the robot? Could you do this back in the 1800's?
So, the company I worked for that when out of business because Microsoft started Vaporwaring the product category we were in was not hurt. ( iFusion ).
Stac? Netscape? I think there are others that could be mentioned here.
There is surplus value, and there is a fair return. Things seem to be tipped ( in my opinion, anyway ) toward the "fair return".
Consider this, on the "magic factory fairy":
Workers built the factory.
Workers can work in the absence of capital. Capital is nothing in the absence of workers.
Capitalism is a fairly good way to allocate value, most of the time. It falls apart from time to time, and does not seem to regard the long term very intelligently. Its the best we have so far.
I was not praising Microsoft, I was pointing out to my parent post that when Microsoft hypes their operating system past the real point of its usefullness ( they are not totaly useless ), like they have in saying that NT was enterprise ready etc, etc, they are open to criticism on this point.
I agree with you. Unix is good for many things, and all around more usefull than Microsoft operating systems. Microsoft's strengths have been more on the desktop and home historically ( and as you point out, Unix is making inroads here ). I would rather be working with Linux/Unix, I hope more jobs involving these open up in my area soon.
The big deal is the hoopla from Microsoft about how their product is superior to everything everywhere, and it is ready to do everything, yeah.
If Microsoft historically was saying "Our OS is good, and getting better all the time, and here are some succes stories", they would not be so open to criticism on this point. ( I am sure there would be some anyway, but... )
Yes, Microsoft has it's place and strengths, just like everything else out there.
Slashdot Mirror
Waaayyyy back, I had my license suspended for a while because I had
too many speeding tickets. Wait, there is a point. During that
suspension, I remember walking ( yeah, I didnt drive during that time ),
down a sidewalk, and seeing a police car edge up to the street from
a parking lot. There was a barrier down the middle of the street
he was pulling onto up to the light, and down to the next block.
So, he *should* have pull out, gone toward the light, then made
a U turn. Instead, he went the wrong way ( at fairly high speed )
at night ( no siren, no flashing lights ), then cut over at the
next block away from the light. I remember this so vividly, because
of the license suspension being in force. Urked me, it did.
Maybe Microsoft will start paying us for licences!
( Free is not the end of the race... )
My scanner says no, you dont.
Prepare...
No, just that Gnomes need to do what the
Gnome Guild(s) dictate. If you visit
a new city with a different Guild, you
need to obey that Guild, if you want to
peddle wands there.
That is because you are not a PHB. PHBes insist
on this "tech support" thing. They only need to
scare the PHBes.
That is the Gnome Guild. They can force him.
If he wants to stay in the Guild, that is.
Didnt help that she kept calling it a floppy.
Is that why you dumped her?
Seemed *so* obvious....
Good one.
Excellent.
To me, it all seems to boil ( pun intended ) down to
A: determine honestly to the best of our ability what and when
and how ( leaving if on the table ) we humans will be affected.
and no dilly dallying or politicing, or hiding heads in sand.
B: once we know that, decide how we semicollectively want to respond.
options seem to include getting us off the earth, and letting it
go the way it wants to, while we terraform lifeless ( hopefully )
planets elsewhere, space stations, etc, etc. Or deciding to
taylor earth better to our liking ( would not be my first choice ).
and think of other strategies.
C: Put the plan into action, if one is needed.
You forgot to mention the part about the gnome making
his wands such that if you couldnt use his wands and
anyone else's wands.
They gave away their entire source code? Where is it?
There is a tactic used sometimes in lawsuits. The other
side wants a document. You give them that document, buried
in a trailer full of fluff that is useless, good luck
finding it. Then you can tell the judge that you gave
it to the opposition, and be truthfull.
Having read some of Microsoft's current documentation,
some of it is OK, but usually the parts needed for the
more advanced stuff is technically there, but hard to use
and not very discoverable. I cant imagine the documentation
on stuff they *dont* want being very good.
An example... I am trying to add some code into an app
I have under development. This code needs to query the
printer before printing a document, as the forms are
preprinted, and have to be carefully controlled, as they
are redeemable for money ( they are bail bond document, the
actual document that jail would accept to bail a person out ).
The documentation on Win32_Printer ( CIM_Printer ) implies good things. Nothing
about how to use it. Nothing that tells me ( until I pushed thru
all the stupid stuff, and got it working ) that the data
that I get back is only from the driver on the machine, not
from the printer itself ( and therefore, useless to me ).
Still looking. Not much of help.
I recall looking at the sockets documentation when Visual
Studio 6 was still "the thing". If you didnt know socket
programming, it was pretty useless. Most of the MultiThreading
documentation seemed to be about telling me that I was not
smart enough to do it.
So, I dont know. Maybe they gave out good quality
documentation ( source code can tell you what, but
you have to figure out why, which other documentation
should give you ), but having watched Microsoft thru
two US federal cases, and the state issues, and how
hard they worked to spin the issue, prove their case
in the court of public opinion rather than the court
of law, it is entirely too easy to believe that they
are gaming this one.
You forgot about the OEM agreements that made it
so that the price of any competing OS product had
the windows price added to it ( making even free
look pricey, distorting the market, ensuring
people bought Microsoft ).
Glad I am for the opportunity to respond to myself...
:-)
Just saw your note on the sarcasm detector, and it
looks like mine needs some adjustment as well.
Press releases?
That is communication to the public. Not communication to the
EU body that they are in trouble with. If they *really* dont
understand ( and I expect that they do ), they can ask *that
body* for clarification ( and they probably have had a few go
arounds ).
And what good are the "independant" studies? They are not part
of the court system, unless they have been asked to testify,
so that is just more PR, not working thru the issue.
It is my opinion that Microsoft knows pretty much what is expected
of them, and that they dont want to do it. All the PR is just to
attempt to bring pressure to bear on the govt to relent.
What court would these suits be filed in?
I dont personally think Microsoft would do anything
like that. They might do something like "well, we
are not allowed to do business in the EU. We would
love to see this corrected, but our hands are tied.
Until this is resolved, we will not be able to provide
tech support to our EU customers". This will brnig
pressure to bear on the EU government to "correct"
the situation, and not endanger (they will hope)
the ability to keep their customers, and the revenue
they represent. ( keeping them from thinking, "well,
time to accelerate or begin our investigation into
other options" )
See, with your announcement, Microsoft can be perceived
as the bad guy. They will want to look like the good
guys, just doing what they can.
Note, I *dont* like the above.
Seems like treating symptoms rather than causes to me.
I was ignoring the issue of how workers in group "A" would transfer
the results of their labor to workers in group "B" to further work
with. And no, I was not thinging that each worker would have to
create everything from scratch.
You are right, this can happen in capitalism. It could happen other
ways as well. Capital is a good "fluid" for this to happen with,
it seems to me that others could be come up with. Communism, as Marx
envisioned it, not as hijacked in Russia, et al, ( assuming it could
be made workable ) is one thought ( not that I think we humans could
do it well ), while morally and ethically repugnant, slavery involves
work, but no capital.
And you have a good point about the criticisms of capitalism, but, again,
I was, for illustration, thinking of "person as worker" as distinct from
"person as capital holder", even when they are the same person.
A note, I am not totaly against capitalism. I think it works fairly
well, by and large, and we know it better than anything else, and it
works better than most anything else we know. I just think we are
putting the cart before the donkey when we start saying that Capital
is more important than workers.
I must disagree.
Workers would have the products of other workers to work with.
I challenge you, get rid of your preconceived notions of how
things are done now and ponder. Yes, in today's economy,
workers would not do anything without capital. But that is not
the beginning or the end of the subject.
Money cant do anything without workers.
Thought experiment. Two companies, one has money, but 0 ( zero )
workers ( no one, not even the owner can provide any service
or product ), one has 0 ( zero ) money, but workers willing to
work and produce a product or service. The second company
does not stand much of a chance in todays world, but at least
that chance is non-zero. The first companies chance is zero.
On robots, who is going to produce the robot? Could you do
this back in the 1800's?
So, the company I worked for that when out of business because
Microsoft started Vaporwaring the product category we were in
was not hurt. ( iFusion ).
Stac?
Netscape?
I think there are others that
could be mentioned here.
Then how about we fix that first, then talk about
tax reductions?
Personally, I think a middle ground is in order.
There is surplus value, and there is a fair return.
Things seem to be tipped ( in my opinion, anyway )
toward the "fair return".
Consider this, on the "magic factory fairy":
Workers built the factory.
Workers can work in the absence of capital.
Capital is nothing in the absence of workers.
Capitalism is a fairly good way to allocate value,
most of the time. It falls apart from time to
time, and does not seem to regard the long term
very intelligently. Its the best we have so far.
AS/400, 1988, if I am not mistaken
I think you misinterpreted my post.
I was not praising Microsoft, I was pointing out
to my parent post that when Microsoft hypes their
operating system past the real point of its
usefullness ( they are not totaly useless ),
like they have in saying that NT was enterprise
ready etc, etc, they are open to criticism on
this point.
I agree with you. Unix is good for many things,
and all around more usefull than Microsoft operating
systems. Microsoft's strengths have been more on
the desktop and home historically ( and as you
point out, Unix is making inroads here ). I would
rather be working with Linux/Unix, I hope more jobs
involving these open up in my area soon.
The big deal is the hoopla from Microsoft about how
their product is superior to everything everywhere,
and it is ready to do everything, yeah.
If Microsoft historically was saying "Our OS
is good, and getting better all the time,
and here are some succes stories", they would
not be so open to criticism on this point.
( I am sure there would be some anyway, but... )
Yes, Microsoft has it's place and strengths,
just like everything else out there.