it's not usable _on a touchscreen_. Yes, you can plug in mouse and keyboard and miss the point of this discussion again.
VS is perfectly usable on a touch screen even when you don't have a keyboard attached. I've got it installed and use it, and yes, I occasionally use it without a keyboard, because its more convent while riding in the car.
If you couldn't make it work, blame your skill set, not your tools.
I don't work for, or get paid by MS, I work for a small software development company that delivers systems designed to run mostly on windows, some Linux as well.
I've seen my mod trail, and as fast as someone knocks it down others kick it back up.
By the way, I've been accused of being a shill for Apple, Ubuntu, Google, HTC, VMware, OpenSuse, KDE, Foxit, Chrysler, Garmin, Samsung, Motorola, Microsoft, Intel, and Starbucks, to name just a few. If I got a pay check from all of them I could quit my job.
I'm sorry you don't like seeing positive posts about things you have CLEARLY never laid fingers upon, but that's YOUR problem, not mine.
I've been looking for a substitute for my monster Dell (oops, yup, must be a shill for them too, right?) laptop for years. Its heavy to drag around on business trips. Its battery life is way worse. I spent 25 minutes at a Microsoft Kiosk on the Surface Pro, (after having read up on it for a month). The guy let me download my compilers (not Microsoft products) and some free source code off the web and actually run some compilations. He let me install OfficeLibre (yup, shilling for this rat bastards as well), open some documents, update and save them to his device. (He didn't even complain that I wouldn't consider MS Office, although there was a bundle for that). He didn't care what I did to the machine, he had a fast wipe capability at the kiosk. I walked away. Had a Widmer Hef, (shill !) and thought it over.
Finished the brew, walked back and slapped down my Visa (shill). Done, and Done.
I like it. You don't have to. But grow the fuck up, and learn to see that everyone who disagrees with you is not being paid to do so.
Hint: most desktop apps from "most supported platform on the planet" are mostly useless when running on small touchscreen.
Clearly you've never used a Surface 8 Pro.
Every app I have thrown at it works perfectly. Far from being useless, I've run complete development environments on mine, complete with source code management, editing, compilation and linking.
True, having a Keyboard makes it way easier, and if the truth were known, I've never seen anyone buy a Surface without a keyboard. But this is true with any tablet. You don't have to buy the keyboard, because any bluetooth or usb keyboard and mouse will work.
But you can make do without it, because it senses when there is no keyboard available, and offers one when you need it. With the pen, you can get to even the smallest controls, but a cheap Bluetooth pocket mouse works way better.
Its touch screen isn't required, you can use it when/where its convenient, with alternatives of mouse, pen, and keyboard when its not.
Great the way Trustwave publishes that they missed the point these things were designed to be as simple as possible.
As "simple as possible" would be to leave the bluetooth OUT of the commode.
We've had flush toilets (of one form or another) since the 31st century BC. None of my electronic devices need to communicate with my toilet. They pretty much live in fear of that dam thing.
...Low Storage Space; Need a table; Heavy; Poor connectivity options(Lacks LETE,3G, or 4G); Pen Attached through Power connector; None Upgradable.
Storage is available up to 128GIG. (How much did that Nexus 7 max out at? 32gig?) Then you can add a MicroSD card for as much as you want. (Sounds like upgrade-able to me). Nexus 7? No MicroSD slot? Don't need a table. Nice to have, because it has a built in fold-out stand. Nexus 7? Heavy. Got me there. Poor connectivity options? Has WIFI.
(I'm not buying carrier service for a tablet. (Seriously, who does that). I have a wifi tether in my pocket for those rare time I want to
use my tablet while sleeping under a bridge.) Pen, Someone uses the pen? Nexus 7 Pen?
Little third-party developer support? You must live in some fantasy world where Windows 95-Windows 8 never existed. A tablet that runs every 32-bit (and 64-bit) application ever written for the world's most popular OS since the mid-90's does not have "little third party developer support".
Exactly! There is an entire world of people who still don't understand that Surface Pro is radically different than RT.
Its actually x86_64, a full 64bit quad-core Core-i5. Boots in 7 seconds flat. And its performance is amazing, and the interface is well thought out.
When they give me my start bar back I'll be far less fumble fingered, and I'll probably stop smudging the screen at all.!;-)
The pen makes it absolutely worth it. It's a professional Wacom digitizer pen with 1024 levels of sensitivity. Drawing right on the tablet screen is awesome. The pen also works with desktop apps like Illustrator, Photoshop, SketchPad Pro, etc.
Odd, I haven't found a single use for the pen, but would never invest in this tablet without the Click Keyboard (not the cheesy touch keyboard)
All my artistic skills would fit on the head of a pin, so its not a mystery why I don't use the pen.
but it's still a year old design at this point. they should have bundled it with both soft and hard keyboards, to make it compete with laptops properly.
Yeah, the keyboard being extra is a bummer, because the touch screen one works fine, but takes way too much space. And the softkey one is not worth the price. This machine really shines with the Click Keyboard.
But its actually x86_64, a full 64bit quad-core Core-i5. Boots in 7 seconds flat.
If you never want to run apps on it, ever, then Windows 8 is apparently a nice interface for touch.
That is pretty true of Surface 8 RT (although there are quite a few apps for it).
But Surface 8 Pro is a full fledged 64bit Windows (wintel) device that will run just about anything your desktop machine will run, and the performance is pretty amazing. Beats the hell out of my Android 10 inch tablet in terms of speed and responsiveness. It really is pretty nice hardware.
For my day job, (where I have to do Windows Development) I've had to travel with a monster laptop, but I've now got everything on a 128Gig Pro 8 with and additional 64gig MircroSD card for storage, and the click keyboard. I have all my source code, compilers, linkers, IDEs and a complete replication of my work environment on the device. I can even run VMware on it. Linux in virtual machines for supporting my other customers.
Yes, run time is not that great (although its way more than the 4 hours claimed because its battery saving strategy is very good). Yes, Its heavier than my Android tablet, but nowhere near as heavy as even a small laptop). And, IMHO, the touch interface is less than inspiring, but I spend most of my time working in an a software development environment (desktop) anyway do I don't notice.
Expensive! That's the only serious complaint. But as a business tax write-off, it didn't hurt much.
Hate on RT as you will, but Pro is a good product, and a pretty high price.
And before that there was the Daily Planner book that everyone carried around.
That is no excuse for failing to keep up with modern techniques and programming methods and continuing to enforce your printed-page mindset on the Android world.
Its not your lawn anymore.
(Oh, and Psion was barely serviceable even when it was the new shiny best thing ever. Nobody did any serious development for it because it was basically a useless device even it its heyday).
Developing for multiple different screen sizes is not that big of a deal, unless your brain is trapped in the printed-page analogy. Its been done this way for 20 years. In this day and age Its. just. not. a. problem.
Clearly the one who has no clue about the modern world is you.
I've heard it said that the reason people resort to untrusted sources is because official markets (Apple App store, or Google Play store, Amazon, etc) are not available in many countries, or the prices, designed for western economies, are simply not affordable in second and third world countries.
I don'k know a single person that installs apps from some random dodgy website. Or perhaps they do, but just don't admit it. Maybe its much more common with kids who don't have credit cards.
But overall, resorting to third-party installation sources seems much rarer in those countries there there is affordable equal-access to the legitimate markets. Malware penetration into the official markets is not unheard of, but it is surely minuscule compared to the "cracked apps" sites.
The protections and limitations placed on the official markets by some countries seem to inflict more harm than what ever they thought they were protecting their citizens from.
Yeah, just as there is no difference between an algorithm/source code and machine code that implements it. Both are equally readable, right?
Readable for who?
To a person well versed int the arts? Absolutely. To a decompiler, you bet. The code you get out of a decompile may not look like the original, but it is still the code.
But those costs are paid for by whoever carries the syndication, e.g. the ads that support the re-runs of old shows. You don't have to worry about those up front.
They pay their own salaries every year without fail. They have a 291 million dollar budget.
Non profit means that there should be, and normally is nothing left after covering their costs and salaries, rent, plant, etc. You might want to read up on it.
It doesn't mean that their vendors don't get paid and everyone who works there works for free. Support services make up 21% of their budget.
Slashdot Mirror
Since they have been obsolete for almost 10 years.
The world has evolved while you were resting on your laurels.
it's not usable _on a touchscreen_. Yes, you can plug in mouse and keyboard and miss the point of this discussion again.
VS is perfectly usable on a touch screen even when you don't have a keyboard attached. I've got it installed and use it, and yes, I occasionally use it without a keyboard, because its more convent while riding in the car.
If you couldn't make it work, blame your skill set, not your tools.
The difference between me and you, son, is I've actually USED it, and you clearly haven't.
Non touch screen apps work just fine on the Surface 8 Pro touch screen.
Either that or stop dropping phones in it.
I don't work for, or get paid by MS, I work for a small software development company that delivers systems designed to run mostly on windows, some Linux as well.
I've seen my mod trail, and as fast as someone knocks it down others kick it back up.
By the way, I've been accused of being a shill for Apple, Ubuntu, Google, HTC, VMware, OpenSuse, KDE, Foxit, Chrysler, Garmin, Samsung, Motorola, Microsoft, Intel, and Starbucks, to name just a few. If I got a pay check from all of them I could quit my job.
I'm sorry you don't like seeing positive posts about things you have CLEARLY never laid fingers upon, but that's YOUR problem, not mine.
I've been looking for a substitute for my monster Dell (oops, yup, must be a shill for them too, right?) laptop for years. Its heavy to drag around on business trips. Its battery life is way worse. I spent 25 minutes at a Microsoft Kiosk on the Surface Pro, (after having read up on it for a month). The guy let me download my compilers (not Microsoft products) and some free source code off the web and actually run some compilations. He let me install OfficeLibre (yup, shilling for this rat bastards as well), open some documents, update and save them to his device. (He didn't even complain that I wouldn't consider MS Office, although there was a bundle for that). He didn't care what I did to the machine, he had a fast wipe capability at the kiosk. I walked away. Had a Widmer Hef, (shill !) and thought it over.
Finished the brew, walked back and slapped down my Visa (shill). Done, and Done.
I like it. You don't have to. But grow the fuck up, and learn to see that everyone who disagrees with you is not being paid to do so.
Hint: most desktop apps from "most supported platform on the planet" are mostly useless when running on small touchscreen.
Clearly you've never used a Surface 8 Pro.
Every app I have thrown at it works perfectly. Far from being useless, I've run complete development environments on mine, complete with source code management, editing, compilation and linking.
True, having a Keyboard makes it way easier, and if the truth were known, I've never seen anyone buy a Surface without a keyboard.
But this is true with any tablet. You don't have to buy the keyboard, because any bluetooth or usb keyboard and mouse will work.
But you can make do without it, because it senses when there is no keyboard available, and offers one when you need it. With the pen, you can get to even the smallest controls, but a cheap Bluetooth pocket mouse works way better.
Its touch screen isn't required, you can use it when/where its convenient, with alternatives of mouse, pen, and keyboard when its not.
Great the way Trustwave publishes that they missed the point these things were designed to be as simple as possible.
As "simple as possible" would be to leave the bluetooth OUT of the commode.
We've had flush toilets (of one form or another) since the 31st century BC.
None of my electronic devices need to communicate with my toilet. They pretty much live in fear of that dam thing.
Only a moron would believe that.
Check your facts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)#History
https://www.usenix.org/legacy/events/sec04/tech/full_papers/dingledine/dingledine_html/index.html
Why do you think almost 2/3rds of all TOR sited portal to the net in Virginia?
...Low Storage Space; Need a table; Heavy; Poor connectivity options(Lacks LETE,3G, or 4G); Pen Attached through Power connector; None Upgradable.
Storage is available up to 128GIG. (How much did that Nexus 7 max out at? 32gig?)
Then you can add a MicroSD card for as much as you want. (Sounds like upgrade-able to me). Nexus 7? No MicroSD slot?
Don't need a table. Nice to have, because it has a built in fold-out stand. Nexus 7?
Heavy. Got me there.
Poor connectivity options? Has WIFI.
(I'm not buying carrier service for a tablet. (Seriously, who does that). I have a wifi tether in my pocket for those rare time I want to
use my tablet while sleeping under a bridge.)
Pen, Someone uses the pen? Nexus 7 Pen?
Little third-party developer support? You must live in some fantasy world where Windows 95-Windows 8 never existed. A tablet that runs every 32-bit (and 64-bit) application ever written for the world's most popular OS since the mid-90's does not have "little third party developer support".
Exactly!
There is an entire world of people who still don't understand that Surface Pro is radically different than RT.
Its actually x86_64, a full 64bit quad-core Core-i5. Boots in 7 seconds flat. And its performance is amazing, and the
interface is well thought out.
When they give me my start bar back I'll be far less fumble fingered, and I'll probably stop smudging the screen at all.! ;-)
The pen makes it absolutely worth it. It's a professional Wacom digitizer pen with 1024 levels of sensitivity. Drawing right on the tablet screen is awesome. The pen also works with desktop apps like Illustrator, Photoshop, SketchPad Pro, etc.
Odd, I haven't found a single use for the pen, but would never invest in this tablet without the Click Keyboard (not the cheesy touch keyboard)
All my artistic skills would fit on the head of a pin, so its not a mystery why I don't use the pen.
well surface pro is x86 and has digitizer input..
but it's still a year old design at this point. they should have bundled it with both soft and hard keyboards, to make it compete with laptops properly.
Yeah, the keyboard being extra is a bummer, because the touch screen one works fine, but takes way too much space.
And the softkey one is not worth the price. This machine really shines with the Click Keyboard.
But its actually x86_64, a full 64bit quad-core Core-i5. Boots in 7 seconds flat.
If you never want to run apps on it, ever, then Windows 8 is apparently a nice interface for touch.
That is pretty true of Surface 8 RT (although there are quite a few apps for it).
But Surface 8 Pro is a full fledged 64bit Windows (wintel) device that will run just about anything your desktop machine will run, and the performance is pretty amazing. Beats the hell out of my Android 10 inch tablet in terms of speed and responsiveness. It really is pretty nice hardware.
For my day job, (where I have to do Windows Development) I've had to travel with a monster laptop, but I've now got everything on a 128Gig Pro 8 with and additional 64gig MircroSD card for storage, and the click keyboard.
I have all my source code, compilers, linkers, IDEs and a complete replication of my work environment on the device.
I can even run VMware on it. Linux in virtual machines for supporting my other customers.
Yes, run time is not that great (although its way more than the 4 hours claimed because its battery saving strategy is very good).
Yes, Its heavier than my Android tablet, but nowhere near as heavy as even a small laptop).
And, IMHO, the touch interface is less than inspiring, but I spend most of my time working in an a software development environment (desktop) anyway do I don't notice.
Expensive! That's the only serious complaint. But as a business tax write-off, it didn't hurt much.
Hate on RT as you will, but Pro is a good product, and a pretty high price.
Looks very much like the three letter agencies decided it's time now to start playing hardball.
Well when you realize that TOR was originally developed and set up by three letter agencies, its not a surprise that it is being used as a honey pot.
And before that there was the Daily Planner book that everyone carried around.
That is no excuse for failing to keep up with modern techniques and programming methods and continuing to enforce your printed-page mindset on the Android world.
Its not your lawn anymore.
(Oh, and Psion was barely serviceable even when it was the new shiny best thing ever. Nobody did any serious development for it because it was basically a useless device even it its heyday).
Start your re-education here old man:
http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/screens_support.html
http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/android/android-layout/
Developing for multiple different screen sizes is not that big of a deal, unless your brain is trapped in the printed-page analogy. Its been done this way for 20 years. In this day and age Its. just. not. a. problem.
Clearly the one who has no clue about the modern world is you.
I've heard it said that the reason people resort to untrusted sources is because official markets (Apple App store, or Google Play store, Amazon, etc) are not available in many countries, or the prices, designed for western economies, are simply not affordable in second and third world countries.
I don'k know a single person that installs apps from some random dodgy website. Or perhaps they do, but just don't admit it. Maybe its much more common with kids who don't have credit cards.
But overall, resorting to third-party installation sources seems much rarer in those countries there there is affordable equal-access to the legitimate markets. Malware penetration into the official markets is not unheard of, but it is surely minuscule compared to the "cracked apps" sites.
The protections and limitations placed on the official markets by some countries seem to inflict more harm than what ever they thought they were protecting their citizens from.
Yeah, just as there is no difference between an algorithm/source code and machine code that implements it. Both are equally readable, right?
Readable for who?
To a person well versed int the arts? Absolutely.
To a decompiler, you bet. The code you get out of a decompile may not look like the original, but it is still the code.
Can you get away with not telling the FDA what is in a drug?
Seems counter-intuitive.
Retarded is buying a camera in your TV and only THEN worrying about privacy.
But those costs are paid for by whoever carries the syndication, e.g. the ads that support the re-runs of old shows. You don't have to worry about those up front.
They pay their own salaries every year without fail. They have a 291 million dollar budget.
Non profit means that there should be, and normally is nothing left after covering their costs and salaries, rent, plant, etc. You might want to read up on it.
It doesn't mean that their vendors don't get paid and everyone who works there works for free.
Support services make up 21% of their budget.
so sad.
That was then, this is now. Its time to step up your game.
Did you dictate screen size to your desktop customers too?
All that time, and still haven't learned to use the IDEs? No wonder multiple screen sized present such a challenge.
How I know you're bullshitting:
I'm a mobile app developer of 16 years standing,
Apple IOS Development platform first release: February 2008.
Android Development Platform first release: August 2008.
Its 2013. You do the math.