If he needs to go back to school, so be it. If he needs to get two jobs, so be it.
If he has to eat shit, so be it. If he has a headache because he can only afford one meal a day, so be it. If his career is destroyed for no reason, so be it.
If you wanna be someone or something, go be it.
If you wanna be fired, go work for a middle manager in a medium to large company.
Then, stay where you are so you can keep complaing about how unfair and hard life is for the you.
This isn't complaining. This is simply observing reality.
You can't just expect to go to school, get a job, and plan to advance in your career with nothing but your experience and seniority.
Why not? That's the way the world worked for hundreds of years before managers started ordering from the buffet menu at meetings.
The reason so many things in the workplace are so totally fucked right now is because things aren't like that. Nobody can do anything really constructive, because the "paradigm" changes every two weeks.
It also makes real education worthless. Why go to school if employers require constant learning of "new skills?" Of what value are old skills like those learned to earn a degree? They are of no value, which explains why employers have nothing but contempt for education.
You can have all the experience in the world, but if it's experience on something obsolete or not applicable, it's useless.
Interesting how easy it is to declare something "useless" with certainty.
You're right, companies fire people just because they feel like it.
They do. I saw people fired by the hundreds for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
They love having to find new prospects, interview them, and retrain them. It's all in the name of fun.
Or all in the name of stuffing their pockets with the difference in salary and benefits.
It means to have a good chance of not being laid off during a resize or merger.
Is the goal of a career to work towards having a "good chance of not being laid off?" How is someone supposed to sign a mortgage with a straight face with that as their financial support?
It means that you can still compete with the new guys. The guys that know all the new gadgets and skills.
So the new guys know everything and the people who have been there for years have to compete? Is experience no longer necessary to be "competitive?"
Video game companies have always wanted to be Hollywood. Unfortunately, they don't know how.
Hollywood has always wanted to be a video game. Unfortunately they don't know how.
One thing Hollywood does better than video game companies is arrange funding for new ideas. Despite their multi-billion dollar annual sales, no video game company spends any significant amount of time or money on research or development of truly new ideas, nor do they fund innovative new companies.
They simply market and re-market sequels and clones, sequels and clones. Oh, and they make people work 100 hour weeks until they are exhausted.
But Nintendo is the Apple of the video game industry, so they probably have a better product and better ideas.
So you would advocate that a person who runs a cash register for ten years should get paid more than a person like myself who has worked in IT for 14 years.
No, I'd advocate that everyone be paid well, especially if they work at a job and contribute to a company for many years. I think every full-time worker should have the opportunity to qualify for benefits, and a pension and regular salary increases as well.
Hmm...sounds like you've had a bad experience or two lately...
Not me as much as my coworkers. The disgusting dishonesty they experienced as their careers were destroyed was appalling.
Well, no one said you just blindly go to college and get whatever degree...
Oh, I see. So it's a shell game. Your statement was:
There are still ways to get good education be it college or vocational schools (whatever interests you).
So only certain degrees qualify as a "good" education, right? That's called unfair.
I agree with you in a sense...today, a bachelors degree is the the equivalent of a HS diploma in past days...you need one to get a start anywhere.
But only if it is a "good" bachelor's degree. Don't study anything the middle-manager doesn't understand or they'll just shitcan the resume and move on to the MBA.
"...middle managment asscrack steal it right before escrow closes on the new house."
I'm guessing this happened to you.
No, but I've seen coworkers physically shoved into parking lots where they cried with their families after being gainfully employed hours earlier.
You can't count on a job for life...nor the same career for life.
Because middle management says so. The bank can count on taking the house when the mortgage isn't paid.
Companies are not loyal to you,
Yeah, well, maybe they should be. Maybe disloyalty is destructive to our society. Maybe the reason we can't raise families in neighborhoods similar to the ones we were raised in is because "companies are not loyal to us."
so, you constantly have to adapt, change, and keep learning new things each day.
In other words, keep running faster and faster to stay in the same place because the phone-flipping blowdried middle manager says so. Sounds great.
How is it that Intel, AMD, and IBM keep offering better processors for less?
Don't know. Probably because they lay off thousands of people on a regular basis, offer little in the way of real advancement opportunities, have stagnant or falling wages, no pensions and few benefits.
Who is "paying the difference" there?
Government, the community, vendors, employees and customers.
You seem to assume that one person can economically gain only at the expense of another, which is absolutely, completely wrong.
Employee gets fired. Middle manager gets a bonus. Happens all the time.
Whether we like it or not, with the increase of technology, people HAVE TO become proficient at more advanced jobs that may require more training.
Like Radiologists? Oh no! They were outsourced too. There's NINE FUCKING YEARS, including FIVE POSTGRADUATE YEARS of university education and a MEDICAL BOARD CERTIFICATION down the shitpipe.
That's nearly twice the postgraduate time requirement for a law degree.
Too bad. Back to school for a new career, right?
However, the trend remains that the less-skilled jobs are minimized as technology grows.
Yeah, well, showing up and doing a good job for ten years can't be replaced by "technology." People matter beyond their hourly wage.
Fatass managers make ten times that because they carry ten times the responsibility.
Which they'll gladly avoid by blaming someone else, usually an employee, and then lay off the entire department to collect a bonus. Fatass managers have no responsibility in the workplace. They are simply better at lying and cheating to keep their ass-molded chair and place in line at the salad bar.
Well, if you do well in school, you can get scholarships to pay for college.
And then you'll have a college education which employers, by and large, have nothing but contempt for. In fact, most employers will reject the following majors as utterly worthless:
1) History 2) Archaeology 3) Linguistics 4) English (or any language) 5) Journalism 6) Economics 7) Sociology 8) Psychology 9) Biology (without an M.D.) 10) Chemistry (without an Engineering certificate) 11) Geology 12) Meteorology 13) Physiology 14) Astronomy 15) Physics (without an Engineering certificate) 16) Mathematics 17) Music Theory 18) Political Science 19) Art 20) Philosophy 20) Any Master of Arts (except business) 21) Any Doctorate (except an M.D.)
Which means, basically, employers reject nearly the entire recorded history and knowledge of the human race, mainly because they don't understand what is required to earn the degree in the first place.
Why do people seem to think that life/society owes you anything?
Because people work their asses off to earn an education and a living. That's called a social contract. It was explained during school: "go to school, work hard and get a good job"
So we went to school, worked hard and got fired.
Most of us, work hard to get educated,
but ONLY in the following majors:
1) Law (with a J.D. minimum) 2) Medicine (with an M.D. minimum) 3) Business (with an MBA, minimum) 4) Engineering (with an M.S. and a certificate, minimum)
All other education is worthless. Ask any non-government employer. "Put your degree last" is what they'll say.
learn valuable skills, and market them in order to better ourselves, make the path easier for our offspring, and provide for our futures.
And then some of us watch some liar fuck cheat fatass dount-shoving middle managment asscrack steal it right before escrow closes on the new house. I know people who are brilliant, highly educated, capable people with tremendous experience who can't rent a job.
May be more difficult for some than others, but, still play with the hand you are dealt and work up from there.
Yeah, I'd agree if I didn't know for a fact that it wouldn't all be reverse-vaccuumed into a shitpipe for the fourth time.
Everybody knows that we have dramatically increased our productivity over the last fifty years and especially the last fifteen years, which is why America is the richest country (has the highest purchasing power) in the world.
Yep. The U.S. is also the largest debtor nation. Budget and trade deficit combined equal almost 5% of GDP. The U.S. no longer has the ability to manufacture its own basic economic needs, and is borrowing from other countries to buy their products.
Average personal debt is $8000 too. Probably because people have to borrow at confiscatory interest rates in order to make up for the lack of real wage growth, which is close to zero, whether its an economic term or not.
Oh and by the way, the price of the average home is about 10% higher than it was last year.
Oh, good. Right up the street house sold two years ago for about $390K. Last month it sold for $797K. Overall average home prices are up over 150% in the last 18 months. Oh, and then there's rents, up 500%.
Someone who has been working grocery store checkout for 10 years...has made a SERIOUS vocational error.
Maybe that's what they want to do. Why do people criticize an honest day's work?
C'mon, do you think anything above minimum wage is warrented by someone scanning stuff all day?
If they do a good job and show up to work every day for ten years, they should make $28 an hour, minimum.
This is not a job for a grown adult to be doing to support themselves, much less a family.
Right. In other words, people who don't really need the money. And just how many jobs are we going to declare "don't really need the money" jobs? Every one that doesn't require an advanced degree? All retail? All foodservice? All hotel? That's about 15% of the workforce right there.
Or how about Starbucks? They open 400 new stores a year, yet their employees are paid dismal wages. Why not open 390 stores and pay a decent wage so those people can buy homes?
And of course, all fatass managers are skilled, right? That's why they get six-figure bonuses and $12,000 a month in disposable income. Right? Only by becoming a FATASS manager does an employee finally earn a living wage. Right?
Half of working-age adults are not employed full-time.
And we don't earn less.
Real wage growth is 0.5% since the 70s.
We can buy much more with our incomes than before.
Housing costs have increased 170% in the last two years.
All because technology eliminated unnecessary jobs, allowing the creation of new jobs, with the result of producing more goods and services with the same limited amount of labor.
If a store offered you something for sale at a much lower cost than you were accustomed to paying, and the item was perfectly good quality,
In other words, if a store offered a free lunch? I would assume someone else is paying the difference because there AIN'T no free lunch.
If not, then why do you insist that companies do this with regard to their employment practices?
Because being an employer carries a responsibility beyond minimizing labor costs. I don't depend on being able to get some plastic and glue slapped together for half price at Wal-Mart. Employees DEPEND on their jobs to feed their families.
Are you suggesting that 10 years of what is basically unskilled (or barely skilled) labor is somehow deserving of more than $15 an hour?
YES. In fact, it's probably worth $28 an hour, plus a full benefits package, flexible scheduling and a pension. $15 an hour is chickenshit. Most companies spend more than that on plastic plants for the lobby. Being a cashier is not unskilled labor. Working anywhere for ten years deserves respect.
Someone working a register for ten years is no more entitled to the job than someone working a register for 1 year.
Oh sure they are.
You know why you don't see people making $60K/year working a register? Because anybody can do it.
You know why fatass managers make ten times that? Anyone can run a fucking meeting and shove donuts in their face.
That explains much of your fuzzy reasoning. The economy is neither fixed size nor a common buffet.
Yeah, it's always fuzzy reasoning if it doesn't show up on a quarterly earnings report. Companies don't want the responsibility of being employers. In fact, they don't want any responsibility. They don't even want to make products. Instead they make "brands." They want the cash without the work.
In other words, four free lunches per mouth followed by a nice horizontal wipe next to the wine bottle.
Business today is short-term budget and wage manipulation combined with getting someone else to pay the bills.
Oh sure. Someone whose been working the same register for ten years wants to get paid $15 an hour and the poor widdle businessman only gets a six-figure bonus this year. Boo fuckin' hoo.
Slashdot Mirror
If he needs to go back to school, so be it. If he needs to get two jobs, so be it.
If he has to eat shit, so be it. If he has a headache because he can only afford one meal a day, so be it. If his career is destroyed for no reason, so be it.
If you wanna be someone or something, go be it.
If you wanna be fired, go work for a middle manager in a medium to large company.
Then, stay where you are so you can keep complaing about how unfair and hard life is for the you.
This isn't complaining. This is simply observing reality.
You can't just expect to go to school, get a job, and plan to advance in your career with nothing but your experience and seniority.
Why not? That's the way the world worked for hundreds of years before managers started ordering from the buffet menu at meetings.
The reason so many things in the workplace are so totally fucked right now is because things aren't like that. Nobody can do anything really constructive, because the "paradigm" changes every two weeks.
It also makes real education worthless. Why go to school if employers require constant learning of "new skills?" Of what value are old skills like those learned to earn a degree? They are of no value, which explains why employers have nothing but contempt for education.
You can have all the experience in the world, but if it's experience on something obsolete or not applicable, it's useless.
Interesting how easy it is to declare something "useless" with certainty.
You're right, companies fire people just because they feel like it.
They do. I saw people fired by the hundreds for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
They love having to find new prospects, interview them, and retrain them. It's all in the name of fun.
Or all in the name of stuffing their pockets with the difference in salary and benefits.
It means to have a good chance of not being laid off during a resize or merger.
Is the goal of a career to work towards having a "good chance of not being laid off?" How is someone supposed to sign a mortgage with a straight face with that as their financial support?
It means that you can still compete with the new guys. The guys that know all the new gadgets and skills.
So the new guys know everything and the people who have been there for years have to compete? Is experience no longer necessary to be "competitive?"
You may have to expand your knowledge and skills to stay competitive.
"Stay competitive" is an excuse for companies to fire people because they feel like it. Nobody knows what "competitive" means, so managers make it up.
People who show up and do a good job are valuable to a company.
Ratchet and Clank?
Jak and Daxter?
Flap and Floopy?
Dipe and Hype?
Bleeb and Blop?
Flibby and Altairiazanzoobfleeby?
Zanzarianiclzeet and Ralph?
I know! Maybe these companies could hire a WRITER or two and then the WRITERS could make up characters. INNOVATIVE, ISN'T IT!?!?!
That large companies don't care what their customers want. Isn't capitalism supposed to be about supply and demand?
Oops. Demand with no supply. Now how can that be? Maybe it's NOT A FREE MARKET?!?
Examples?
Star Wars.
Video game companies have always wanted to be Hollywood. Unfortunately, they don't know how.
Hollywood has always wanted to be a video game. Unfortunately they don't know how.
One thing Hollywood does better than video game companies is arrange funding for new ideas. Despite their multi-billion dollar annual sales, no video game company spends any significant amount of time or money on research or development of truly new ideas, nor do they fund innovative new companies.
They simply market and re-market sequels and clones, sequels and clones. Oh, and they make people work 100 hour weeks until they are exhausted.
But Nintendo is the Apple of the video game industry, so they probably have a better product and better ideas.
Yeah. It's always the employee's fault.
Maybe people would be better financial planners if their paycheck didn't turn into a shitball every eight weeks.
So you would advocate that a person who runs a cash register for ten years should get paid more than a person like myself who has worked in IT for 14 years.
No, I'd advocate that everyone be paid well, especially if they work at a job and contribute to a company for many years. I think every full-time worker should have the opportunity to qualify for benefits, and a pension and regular salary increases as well.
Hmm...sounds like you've had a bad experience or two lately...
Not me as much as my coworkers. The disgusting dishonesty they experienced as their careers were destroyed was appalling.
Well, no one said you just blindly go to college and get whatever degree...
Oh, I see. So it's a shell game. Your statement was:
There are still ways to get good education be it college or vocational schools (whatever interests you).
So only certain degrees qualify as a "good" education, right? That's called unfair.
I agree with you in a sense...today, a bachelors degree is the the equivalent of a HS diploma in past days...you need one to get a start anywhere.
But only if it is a "good" bachelor's degree. Don't study anything the middle-manager doesn't understand or they'll just shitcan the resume and move on to the MBA.
"...middle managment asscrack steal it right before escrow closes on the new house."
I'm guessing this happened to you.
No, but I've seen coworkers physically shoved into parking lots where they cried with their families after being gainfully employed hours earlier.
You can't count on a job for life...nor the same career for life.
Because middle management says so. The bank can count on taking the house when the mortgage isn't paid.
Companies are not loyal to you,
Yeah, well, maybe they should be. Maybe disloyalty is destructive to our society. Maybe the reason we can't raise families in neighborhoods similar to the ones we were raised in is because "companies are not loyal to us."
so, you constantly have to adapt, change, and keep learning new things each day.
In other words, keep running faster and faster to stay in the same place because the phone-flipping blowdried middle manager says so. Sounds great.
How is it that Intel, AMD, and IBM keep offering better processors for less?
Don't know. Probably because they lay off thousands of people on a regular basis, offer little in the way of real advancement opportunities, have stagnant or falling wages, no pensions and few benefits.
Who is "paying the difference" there?
Government, the community, vendors, employees and customers.
You seem to assume that one person can economically gain only at the expense of another, which is absolutely, completely wrong.
Employee gets fired. Middle manager gets a bonus. Happens all the time.
Whether we like it or not, with the increase of technology, people HAVE TO become proficient at more advanced jobs that may require more training.
Like Radiologists? Oh no! They were outsourced too. There's NINE FUCKING YEARS, including FIVE POSTGRADUATE YEARS of university education and a MEDICAL BOARD CERTIFICATION down the shitpipe.
That's nearly twice the postgraduate time requirement for a law degree.
Too bad. Back to school for a new career, right?
However, the trend remains that the less-skilled jobs are minimized as technology grows.
Yeah, well, showing up and doing a good job for ten years can't be replaced by "technology." People matter beyond their hourly wage.
Fatass managers make ten times that because they carry ten times the responsibility.
Which they'll gladly avoid by blaming someone else, usually an employee, and then lay off the entire department to collect a bonus. Fatass managers have no responsibility in the workplace. They are simply better at lying and cheating to keep their ass-molded chair and place in line at the salad bar.
Well, if you do well in school, you can get scholarships to pay for college.
And then you'll have a college education which employers, by and large, have nothing but contempt for. In fact, most employers will reject the following majors as utterly worthless:
1) History
2) Archaeology
3) Linguistics
4) English (or any language)
5) Journalism
6) Economics
7) Sociology
8) Psychology
9) Biology (without an M.D.)
10) Chemistry (without an Engineering certificate)
11) Geology
12) Meteorology
13) Physiology
14) Astronomy
15) Physics (without an Engineering certificate)
16) Mathematics
17) Music Theory
18) Political Science
19) Art
20) Philosophy
20) Any Master of Arts (except business)
21) Any Doctorate (except an M.D.)
Which means, basically, employers reject nearly the entire recorded history and knowledge of the human race, mainly because they don't understand what is required to earn the degree in the first place.
Why do people seem to think that life/society owes you anything?
Because people work their asses off to earn an education and a living. That's called a social contract. It was explained during school: "go to school, work hard and get a good job"
So we went to school, worked hard and got fired.
Most of us, work hard to get educated,
but ONLY in the following majors:
1) Law (with a J.D. minimum)
2) Medicine (with an M.D. minimum)
3) Business (with an MBA, minimum)
4) Engineering (with an M.S. and a certificate, minimum)
All other education is worthless. Ask any non-government employer. "Put your degree last" is what they'll say.
learn valuable skills, and market them in order to better ourselves, make the path easier for our offspring, and provide for our futures.
And then some of us watch some liar fuck cheat fatass dount-shoving middle managment asscrack steal it right before escrow closes on the new house. I know people who are brilliant, highly educated, capable people with tremendous experience who can't rent a job.
May be more difficult for some than others, but, still play with the hand you are dealt and work up from there.
Yeah, I'd agree if I didn't know for a fact that it wouldn't all be reverse-vaccuumed into a shitpipe for the fourth time.
Everybody knows that we have dramatically increased our productivity over the last fifty years and especially the last fifteen years, which is why America is the richest country (has the highest purchasing power) in the world.
Yep. The U.S. is also the largest debtor nation. Budget and trade deficit combined equal almost 5% of GDP. The U.S. no longer has the ability to manufacture its own basic economic needs, and is borrowing from other countries to buy their products.
Average personal debt is $8000 too. Probably because people have to borrow at confiscatory interest rates in order to make up for the lack of real wage growth, which is close to zero, whether its an economic term or not.
Oh and by the way, the price of the average home is about 10% higher than it was last year.
Oh, good. Right up the street house sold two years ago for about $390K. Last month it sold for $797K. Overall average home prices are up over 150% in the last 18 months. Oh, and then there's rents, up 500%.
Someone who has been working grocery store checkout for 10 years...has made a SERIOUS vocational error.
Maybe that's what they want to do. Why do people criticize an honest day's work?
C'mon, do you think anything above minimum wage is warrented by someone scanning stuff all day?
If they do a good job and show up to work every day for ten years, they should make $28 an hour, minimum.
This is not a job for a grown adult to be doing to support themselves, much less a family.
Right. In other words, people who don't really need the money. And just how many jobs are we going to declare "don't really need the money" jobs? Every one that doesn't require an advanced degree? All retail? All foodservice? All hotel? That's about 15% of the workforce right there.
Or how about Starbucks? They open 400 new stores a year, yet their employees are paid dismal wages. Why not open 390 stores and pay a decent wage so those people can buy homes?
And of course, all fatass managers are skilled, right? That's why they get six-figure bonuses and $12,000 a month in disposable income. Right? Only by becoming a FATASS manager does an employee finally earn a living wage. Right?
Today, we don't have fewer jobs as a result.
Half of working-age adults are not employed full-time.
And we don't earn less.
Real wage growth is 0.5% since the 70s.
We can buy much more with our incomes than before.
Housing costs have increased 170% in the last two years.
All because technology eliminated unnecessary jobs, allowing the creation of new jobs, with the result of producing more goods and services with the same limited amount of labor.
In another country.
If a store offered you something for sale at a much lower cost than you were accustomed to paying, and the item was perfectly good quality,
In other words, if a store offered a free lunch? I would assume someone else is paying the difference because there AIN'T no free lunch.
If not, then why do you insist that companies do this with regard to their employment practices?
Because being an employer carries a responsibility beyond minimizing labor costs. I don't depend on being able to get some plastic and glue slapped together for half price at Wal-Mart. Employees DEPEND on their jobs to feed their families.
Are you suggesting that 10 years of what is basically unskilled (or barely skilled) labor is somehow deserving of more than $15 an hour?
YES. In fact, it's probably worth $28 an hour, plus a full benefits package, flexible scheduling and a pension. $15 an hour is chickenshit. Most companies spend more than that on plastic plants for the lobby. Being a cashier is not unskilled labor. Working anywhere for ten years deserves respect.
Someone working a register for ten years is no more entitled to the job than someone working a register for 1 year.
Oh sure they are.
You know why you don't see people making $60K/year working a register? Because anybody can do it.
You know why fatass managers make ten times that? Anyone can run a fucking meeting and shove donuts in their face.
That explains much of your fuzzy reasoning. The economy is neither fixed size nor a common buffet.
Yeah, it's always fuzzy reasoning if it doesn't show up on a quarterly earnings report. Companies don't want the responsibility of being employers. In fact, they don't want any responsibility. They don't even want to make products. Instead they make "brands." They want the cash without the work.
In other words, four free lunches per mouth followed by a nice horizontal wipe next to the wine bottle.
Business today is short-term budget and wage manipulation combined with getting someone else to pay the bills.
This even happens when work is outsourced. It frees up labor to do something else.
Like start over.
Oh sure. Someone whose been working the same register for ten years wants to get paid $15 an hour and the poor widdle businessman only gets a six-figure bonus this year. Boo fuckin' hoo.
What responsibilities?
To be a good citizen. Not to pile up fourths at the buffet and wipe their ass on the tablecloth.
Why do they have them?
Because the voters say so, and the voters are the meanest fuckin' gorilla in the cage.
Do you as an individual have the same responsibilities?
No. I don't control eleven figures of capital.
the goal of the corporation
Someone else pays the corporation's costs so the corporation can make more money.
Capitalism is an economic system where a free market determines prices
When corporations manipulate wages to artificially inflate earnings, there is no free market.