Nice rant, but I got off my ass and did something. How about you Anonymous Coward? It's really easy to just look at the problem and do nothing, isn't it? Because it's the school's fault? sigh.... Someone has a preconcieved notion.
I've visited 4 state reps in the last year. One of them was a dumbass. All of them were just people. I have a meeting set up with a fifth. It's not hard. I'm not saying money isn't a driver there. In fact, if you were paying attention, that's precisely what I'm fighting against... but you looked into the problem and gave up. I looked into the problem and fought back. Apathy sucks. And so does anyone who falls into it. Understandable, but sucky.
And lest you think I'm just whining on the internet, there are things you can do. Volunteer for the ACLU. give money to the EFF. join an organization dedicated to fixing congress. Get money out of politics. It's not hard. It just takes that little bit of motivation to get off your ass and go do something. That itsy little bit really does make a difference.
I challenge all of you. Look up your state and federal reps, and add them as contacts on your phone. Call them when you're bored and tell them what's important to you. It really does make a difference.
They PINKY SWEAR they're only using this information for terrorism, right?
If there are really THAT MANY terrorists inside the US, we're fucked. I mean, really truly fucked. I'm surprised any of the bridges or large buildings in my city are still standing. We KNOW The FBI and DHS can't catch everyone. Oddly enough, all the bridges and buildings are still there. No one has taken down the water supply. Electricity still works. Parking sucks, but that's normal.:D No terrorists attacks have taken place (and it's NOT because the FBI stopped them.)
That means all those THOUSANDS of requests... lets see, 16,000 search warrants, 50 states, 320 search warrants per state... I should have an active terrorist cell of AT LEAST 50 people in my city. Probably 100. Where are they?
They don't exist. That means they're using this information, and the powers granted to them FOR CATCHING TERRORISTS, for other things. No way!
This thread is going to be full of whining. Lots of blame. Lots of arguing. Lots of links to sources.... but no action.
Wolf-PAC.com. Go. sign up. DO SOMETHING. I drove an hour today to get to my state capitol, visited my state rep, and asked him to sponsor legislation to call for an article V convention to FIX the problem. The problem isn't and R or a D next to someone's name. It's that money buys influence. It's that our reps are elected almost completely based on who raises the most money. And that isn't their fault. It's YOURS.
You vote based on partisan hackery and don't bother to educate yourselves. You're all fired up to argue on the internet, but can't be bother to call your damn rep and tell them what's on your mind. And to boot, you vote based on made up knee jerk reactions. They're playing you like a fiddle. Ok, mostly the Right here, I really do have to show my bias.:D Really, a Muslim? A secret Muslim? F'ing stupid... but the laziness crosses party lines.
Fix your brain, get off your ass, and go FIX IT. Stop whining on the internet. Stop arguing uselessly with random strangers on the internet. It wasn't even that hard to call my rep, get a meeting, and start working on a solution.
Sorry, I'm a little frustrated by all the stupid arguing. Also, the stupidity. Go. wolf-pac.com. Sign up. Work with the people in your state (many of whom are in the OTHER party, and you'll hang out with them and discover they're actually quite intelligent and put a lot of thought into their beliefs).
If we're going to go by what congress spends, lets actually count it all up, not just start at Pelosi and Reid because you like to hate on 'em. There's plenty of blame to spread around. Stop being a partisan asshat.
I do love how, to prove Obama is bad (and he IS bad, just for REAL reasons... ), people trot out the debt. Yes. It's high. Yes, Obama spent a lot of money. But lets face it, the deficit is going DOWN, not up. He inherited a mess, he's cleaning it up, and if we want to blame anyone, we should blame the folks that repealed the Glass-Steagal act (which includes Clinton) for creating our gigantic mess.
If you want to hate on Obama, stick to real facts. There are plenty of reasons to hate on Obama. But he's not responsible for the accumulation of all the debt that came before him, nor is he responsible for the economic situation that we find ourselves in. Go blame the assholes that deregulated an industry that almost immediately started creating a gigantic economic bubble and then begged for help when it popped.
Yes we ARE experiencing the third coldest winter on record so far in the US. It's almost like global weather patterns are shifting... Weird... Perhaps it's due to the Jet Stream getting all weird, due to a rise in temperature.
It's people like you that necessitated moving from "global warming" to "climate change", because you don't seem to understand that warming causes changes.
I live in the Pacific Northwest. Global Warming doesn't mean I magically get awesome summers. It doesn't mean the end of rain. It means drier summers, but WETTER winters. More heat means more evaporation, means more moist air hitting the mountains, but due to the increase in temperatures I get more water instead of snow.... Which incidentally means less snow pack. Less snow pack means less stored water (we count on the snow pack releasing water throughout the year into the rivers for our steady yearlong supply).
It's not hard to realize this. You just need to look at the data, think a little bit, and stop being stubborn.
We don't have to live in caves. That's a line that's been fed to you, by big interests, to delegitimize the voices speaking up. Just stop consuming so much, ride your bike to work, use LED lighting... There are a LOT of little steps that make the world better, and incidentally make you healthier. It's not hard at all, and there's no reduction in quality of life.
That some people drive to work, and then maintain gym memberships where they sit inside and pedal a stationary bike, is really really weird to me....
Actually, good job. Way to be part of the solution.:D It really doesn't take much. Quit your gym membership (you weren't using it that much anyway) and buy a NICE bike... Ride it to work. Chances are you live within a half hour bike ride of work anyway. Maybe you don't. It's cool... There are many other things you can do to save energy. Change your lights over to LED lighting, it really is good enough (get the right brand of bulbs, some of them still do suck) and cheap enough. How about NOT buying your kid all those plastic toys they don't really play with anyway and that wind up stuffed into your oversized garage just sitting there for YEARS. Etc etc etc.
Funnily enough, once you take steps to make your life simpler, it usually gets BETTER too. Stuff and Convenience doesn't make you happier.
Ok. We'll throw you at a wall at 30 MPH, and you'll go to the hospital. We'll throw you at a wall at 120 MPH, and you'll die. This is incredibly bad logic, and you know it.
"The model falls apart once applied to government of any size, however..."
I love this talking point. It's usually said by someone who drove to work on public roads, is protected by public police and fire, got a public education, got gov. assistance to go to college..... Who's car is safe because of government regulations, who's air is safe because of government regulations, who's food is safe because of government regulations, who's house hasn't burned or fallen down because of building codes..... who's lights turn on because of a public utitity, who's faucets work because of a public utitlity, who listens to the radio that is possible due to government management of the spectrum..... who's place of work regularly works with both local, state, and sometimes federal government to ensure a good supply of resources....
I can keep going, and also, it's very possible I misunderstood the context of what you were saying. The point still is, most of the people who bitch about how much the government doesn't work simply take for granted how WELL it works. Take away a strong government, or at least a strong civil society, and you get some of the worst hellholes on this planet. Not paradises.
I'll be the first to say it has it's problems cough corruption in congress cough. But most people take it's successes for granted. While bitching about it.
Oh, hi Dywolf.... You beat me to it. High five for not taking all this awesomeness for granted! 0/
Chernobyl's wildlife had some REALLY ugly birth defects, mutations, and cancer rates. Once all THOSE died off, yeah, it went gang buster. I suspect that has more to do with an abundance of food and space, and no humans bulldozing everything and shooting them.
Logical Fallacy: burden of proof. "Until someone proves hormesis wrong, I believe its true." Well, I believe that eating unicorn flesh is keeping me young, and until someone proves me wrong, I'm going to believe that too. I'd reeaaaally like to see this properly done study showing that a little bit of radiation is good for you. The old Natural Philosophers used to drink mercury too....
The rest of your post is just one logical fallacy after another, and a giant stereotyping of environmentals, pretty much so you can bash on them. If you were interested in defending nuculear power, you'd do that. Instead you spend your time bashing environmentalists, which leads me to believe that's what you're actually trying to do..... Perhaps I'm wrong. Either way.... https://yourlogicalfallacyis.c... Look 'em up.
Not end of discussion. The EPA regs are based on science. We know lead causes behavorial problems. We know it causes cognitive issues, especially in children. We know lots of things are bad for us, and that science is well documented. So. Maybe we should regulate lead in the environment. Etc Etc Etc.
The problem is that people don't bother to READ the easily available science, and even when it's presented to them on a silver platter (see evolution), some of them still cling to their beliefs. Ironically, there's some good science showing that some people cling to their beliefs HARDER when presented with evidence that is contrary to their belief. They probably haven't read it...... BadumpChing! I'm here all night folks.
I actually disagree with them on the gun thing, but I think the argument is actually "this shit doesn't happen in nicer countries that control guns." or even "It's hard to shoot people when you don't have a gun." or possibly even "Lets at least make it hard for unstable people to have guns.", all of which are valid points that can be discussed without using (Fallacy, Black or White) "If you don't let us have guns, the government will take over!". Also, you're ironically using a Loaded Question fallacy when you're (wrongly) accusing them of an Appeal to Emotion Fallacy.
climate change science is peer reviewed. It has flaws. All science does. This does not mean it's all crap. That would be a Composition Fallacy. The process of peer review, testing, refining, etc is taking care of them, and growing our understanding of the issue. The science is there for everyone to read. It is open and transparent. You capticalizing REAL science (Fallacy, true scotsman) doesn't change that the science is open, transparent, and easily reviewable by any schlub that takes the time to do so. Come back to the real world.
I don't think I'll hold my breath while this bill turns the GOP into supporting ACTUAL (trues scotsman) science. nothing but lies indeed....
Also, your spelling sucks and you sound like a loon. (ad hominem, my bad, but hey, it really does and you really do.)
Also, sick of the people accusing "dirty liberals, who's views are based on nothing but lies", of (Fallacy, genetic) only complaining about this because it's a conservative bill. Ironically, a Genetic Fallacy, but then.... People tend to assign their own motives to other people. This is just a bad bill. It's an obvious ploy to defang the EPA.
I think this sums up what's happening here quite well.
For the link averse.... "Which is more likely? Regional environmental groups and community activists... are spending their limited operating budgets... in a massive conspiracy with 90% of the global scientificl community... to create a hoax and ruin the economy? Or Oil Companies... are spending their obscene profits... to bribe anyone that they can... to protect their profits and limit any future liability that their pollution might cause?"
Black and White. No, no one is advocating that the EPA should be able to issue regs based on non science. The EPA already issues regs based on science, and it's quite publicly available. It took me three clicks on their website to find info on their regs, a link for submitting feedback, and links to studies.
But your post is exactly how this bill will be used politically. "Are you advocating that the EPA should be able to issue regulations based on non-science?!!!!!!" You need more exclamation points. They make you look more right.
Uhm. I call BS. Most liberals I know are quite willing to get angry with "their" party. It's the issues, not the candidate. Frankly, this happens on the conservative side too. Hell, McCain just got censured for being too liberal. Ha!
So, no. Actually, you're just doing exactly what you're accusing others of doing (except they're not. it's all you.)
Slashdot Mirror
Nice rant, but I got off my ass and did something. How about you Anonymous Coward? It's really easy to just look at the problem and do nothing, isn't it? Because it's the school's fault? sigh.... Someone has a preconcieved notion.
I've visited 4 state reps in the last year. One of them was a dumbass. All of them were just people. I have a meeting set up with a fifth. It's not hard. I'm not saying money isn't a driver there. In fact, if you were paying attention, that's precisely what I'm fighting against... but you looked into the problem and gave up. I looked into the problem and fought back. Apathy sucks. And so does anyone who falls into it. Understandable, but sucky.
And lest you think I'm just whining on the internet, there are things you can do. Volunteer for the ACLU. give money to the EFF. join an organization dedicated to fixing congress. Get money out of politics. It's not hard. It just takes that little bit of motivation to get off your ass and go do something. That itsy little bit really does make a difference.
I challenge all of you. Look up your state and federal reps, and add them as contacts on your phone. Call them when you're bored and tell them what's important to you. It really does make a difference.
Ok, so you're THAT lazy... :D Here. Sheesh. http://whoismyrepresentative.c...
They PINKY SWEAR they're only using this information for terrorism, right?
If there are really THAT MANY terrorists inside the US, we're fucked. I mean, really truly fucked. I'm surprised any of the bridges or large buildings in my city are still standing. We KNOW The FBI and DHS can't catch everyone. Oddly enough, all the bridges and buildings are still there. No one has taken down the water supply. Electricity still works. Parking sucks, but that's normal. :D No terrorists attacks have taken place (and it's NOT because the FBI stopped them.)
That means all those THOUSANDS of requests... lets see, 16,000 search warrants, 50 states, 320 search warrants per state... I should have an active terrorist cell of AT LEAST 50 people in my city. Probably 100. Where are they?
They don't exist. That means they're using this information, and the powers granted to them FOR CATCHING TERRORISTS, for other things. No way!
This thread is going to be full of whining. Lots of blame. Lots of arguing. Lots of links to sources.... but no action.
Wolf-PAC.com. Go. sign up. DO SOMETHING. I drove an hour today to get to my state capitol, visited my state rep, and asked him to sponsor legislation to call for an article V convention to FIX the problem. The problem isn't and R or a D next to someone's name. It's that money buys influence. It's that our reps are elected almost completely based on who raises the most money. And that isn't their fault. It's YOURS.
You vote based on partisan hackery and don't bother to educate yourselves. You're all fired up to argue on the internet, but can't be bother to call your damn rep and tell them what's on your mind. And to boot, you vote based on made up knee jerk reactions. They're playing you like a fiddle. Ok, mostly the Right here, I really do have to show my bias. :D Really, a Muslim? A secret Muslim? F'ing stupid... but the laziness crosses party lines.
Fix your brain, get off your ass, and go FIX IT. Stop whining on the internet. Stop arguing uselessly with random strangers on the internet. It wasn't even that hard to call my rep, get a meeting, and start working on a solution.
Sorry, I'm a little frustrated by all the stupid arguing. Also, the stupidity. Go. wolf-pac.com. Sign up. Work with the people in your state (many of whom are in the OTHER party, and you'll hang out with them and discover they're actually quite intelligent and put a lot of thought into their beliefs).
If we're going to go by what congress spends, lets actually count it all up, not just start at Pelosi and Reid because you like to hate on 'em. There's plenty of blame to spread around. Stop being a partisan asshat.
I do love how, to prove Obama is bad (and he IS bad, just for REAL reasons... ), people trot out the debt. Yes. It's high. Yes, Obama spent a lot of money. But lets face it, the deficit is going DOWN, not up. He inherited a mess, he's cleaning it up, and if we want to blame anyone, we should blame the folks that repealed the Glass-Steagal act (which includes Clinton) for creating our gigantic mess.
If you want to hate on Obama, stick to real facts. There are plenty of reasons to hate on Obama. But he's not responsible for the accumulation of all the debt that came before him, nor is he responsible for the economic situation that we find ourselves in. Go blame the assholes that deregulated an industry that almost immediately started creating a gigantic economic bubble and then begged for help when it popped.
Yes we ARE experiencing the third coldest winter on record so far in the US. It's almost like global weather patterns are shifting... Weird... Perhaps it's due to the Jet Stream getting all weird, due to a rise in temperature.
It's people like you that necessitated moving from "global warming" to "climate change", because you don't seem to understand that warming causes changes.
I live in the Pacific Northwest. Global Warming doesn't mean I magically get awesome summers. It doesn't mean the end of rain. It means drier summers, but WETTER winters. More heat means more evaporation, means more moist air hitting the mountains, but due to the increase in temperatures I get more water instead of snow.... Which incidentally means less snow pack. Less snow pack means less stored water (we count on the snow pack releasing water throughout the year into the rivers for our steady yearlong supply).
It's not hard to realize this. You just need to look at the data, think a little bit, and stop being stubborn.
We don't have to live in caves. That's a line that's been fed to you, by big interests, to delegitimize the voices speaking up. Just stop consuming so much, ride your bike to work, use LED lighting... There are a LOT of little steps that make the world better, and incidentally make you healthier. It's not hard at all, and there's no reduction in quality of life.
That some people drive to work, and then maintain gym memberships where they sit inside and pedal a stationary bike, is really really weird to me....
Hey Dixie, I wasn't telling all of this to you. I was telling it to THEM. Should have put a new paragraph there. My Bad.
He's an economic terrorist! Get him!
Actually, good job. Way to be part of the solution. :D It really doesn't take much. Quit your gym membership (you weren't using it that much anyway) and buy a NICE bike... Ride it to work. Chances are you live within a half hour bike ride of work anyway. Maybe you don't. It's cool... There are many other things you can do to save energy. Change your lights over to LED lighting, it really is good enough (get the right brand of bulbs, some of them still do suck) and cheap enough. How about NOT buying your kid all those plastic toys they don't really play with anyway and that wind up stuffed into your oversized garage just sitting there for YEARS. Etc etc etc.
Funnily enough, once you take steps to make your life simpler, it usually gets BETTER too. Stuff and Convenience doesn't make you happier.
Ok. We'll throw you at a wall at 30 MPH, and you'll go to the hospital. We'll throw you at a wall at 120 MPH, and you'll die. This is incredibly bad logic, and you know it.
"The model falls apart once applied to government of any size, however..."
I love this talking point. It's usually said by someone who drove to work on public roads, is protected by public police and fire, got a public education, got gov. assistance to go to college..... Who's car is safe because of government regulations, who's air is safe because of government regulations, who's food is safe because of government regulations, who's house hasn't burned or fallen down because of building codes..... who's lights turn on because of a public utitity, who's faucets work because of a public utitlity, who listens to the radio that is possible due to government management of the spectrum..... who's place of work regularly works with both local, state, and sometimes federal government to ensure a good supply of resources....
I can keep going, and also, it's very possible I misunderstood the context of what you were saying. The point still is, most of the people who bitch about how much the government doesn't work simply take for granted how WELL it works. Take away a strong government, or at least a strong civil society, and you get some of the worst hellholes on this planet. Not paradises.
I'll be the first to say it has it's problems cough corruption in congress cough. But most people take it's successes for granted. While bitching about it.
Oh, hi Dywolf.... You beat me to it. High five for not taking all this awesomeness for granted! 0/
Chernobyl's wildlife had some REALLY ugly birth defects, mutations, and cancer rates. Once all THOSE died off, yeah, it went gang buster. I suspect that has more to do with an abundance of food and space, and no humans bulldozing everything and shooting them.
Logical Fallacy: burden of proof. "Until someone proves hormesis wrong, I believe its true." Well, I believe that eating unicorn flesh is keeping me young, and until someone proves me wrong, I'm going to believe that too. I'd reeaaaally like to see this properly done study showing that a little bit of radiation is good for you. The old Natural Philosophers used to drink mercury too....
The rest of your post is just one logical fallacy after another, and a giant stereotyping of environmentals, pretty much so you can bash on them. If you were interested in defending nuculear power, you'd do that. Instead you spend your time bashing environmentalists, which leads me to believe that's what you're actually trying to do..... Perhaps I'm wrong. Either way.... https://yourlogicalfallacyis.c... Look 'em up.
Not end of discussion. The EPA regs are based on science. We know lead causes behavorial problems. We know it causes cognitive issues, especially in children. We know lots of things are bad for us, and that science is well documented. So. Maybe we should regulate lead in the environment. Etc Etc Etc.
The problem is that people don't bother to READ the easily available science, and even when it's presented to them on a silver platter (see evolution), some of them still cling to their beliefs. Ironically, there's some good science showing that some people cling to their beliefs HARDER when presented with evidence that is contrary to their belief. They probably haven't read it...... BadumpChing! I'm here all night folks.
I'll repeat myself.... "Have you seen congress lately? You try getting some environmental regs past the house. Just try. See how that works out....."
Just say'in.
Anonymous coward.
climate change science is peer reviewed. It has flaws. All science does. This does not mean it's all crap. That would be a Composition Fallacy. The process of peer review, testing, refining, etc is taking care of them, and growing our understanding of the issue. The science is there for everyone to read. It is open and transparent. You capticalizing REAL science (Fallacy, true scotsman) doesn't change that the science is open, transparent, and easily reviewable by any schlub that takes the time to do so. Come back to the real world.
I don't think I'll hold my breath while this bill turns the GOP into supporting ACTUAL (trues scotsman) science. nothing but lies indeed....
Also, your spelling sucks and you sound like a loon. (ad hominem, my bad, but hey, it really does and you really do.)
Also, sick of the people accusing "dirty liberals, who's views are based on nothing but lies", of (Fallacy, genetic) only complaining about this because it's a conservative bill. Ironically, a Genetic Fallacy, but then.... People tend to assign their own motives to other people. This is just a bad bill. It's an obvious ploy to defang the EPA.
This reminds me of a graphic I saw once. Let me dig it out of The Internet for y'all.
This'll do. http://whowhatwhy.com/2012/02/...
I think this sums up what's happening here quite well.
For the link averse.... "Which is more likely? Regional environmental groups and community activists... are spending their limited operating budgets... in a massive conspiracy with 90% of the global scientificl community... to create a hoax and ruin the economy? Or Oil Companies... are spending their obscene profits... to bribe anyone that they can... to protect their profits and limit any future liability that their pollution might cause?"
You know the answer.
Black and White. No, no one is advocating that the EPA should be able to issue regs based on non science. The EPA already issues regs based on science, and it's quite publicly available. It took me three clicks on their website to find info on their regs, a link for submitting feedback, and links to studies.
But your post is exactly how this bill will be used politically. "Are you advocating that the EPA should be able to issue regulations based on non-science?!!!!!!" You need more exclamation points. They make you look more right.
How did Obama change the EPA? It doesn't look any different to me. I'd be cheering from the mountains if they actually got tough.
And that IRS scandal was complete BS.
And actually, no, it wasn't his administration that expanded privacy violations. His continued it.
You're an anonymous crackpot. Why am I replying to you? Sigh....
Uhm. I call BS. Most liberals I know are quite willing to get angry with "their" party. It's the issues, not the candidate. Frankly, this happens on the conservative side too. Hell, McCain just got censured for being too liberal. Ha!
So, no. Actually, you're just doing exactly what you're accusing others of doing (except they're not. it's all you.)
you're complaining that people at the EPA are afraid that if old laws are removed, they won't be able to get new laws enacted. Of course they are!!!!!
Have you seen congress lately? You try getting some environmental regs past the house. Just try. See how that works out.....
This should get modded up. The EPA is already transparent, and the regulations are based on good science (and some common sense).
If anything, the EPA regs are far too loose. Ahem. West Virginia. Freedom Industries. Need we say more?