I didn't say it was free, I said you don't have to pay a dime.
I must be having some difficulty with English language here. Please do enlighten me as to your interpretation of word "free". So you are saying it is "not free" as in "you do have to pay for it" (presumably some way measured in dimes) but "you do not have to pay a dime" as in "it does not have any monetary value" wich leads to "you do not have to pay for it" ergo "it is free"? I dont think you can have it both ways.
Seeing as how I'm pbviously an Opera user, it is ignorant of you to assume that I'm unaware of the existence of the ads.
I never indicated anything about you not knowing about the ads, as a matter of fact I did not even mention any of Opera's functionality or quality here. My entrie objection is to calling Opera "free" or saying that it "does not cost a dime".
Your views are exaggerated to an unrealistic extreme.
No, I merely have some fundamental principles and refuse to compromise on them (which would destroy their value). There are many such unalienable, fundamental principles that are universal to human kind. Many of them however get so badly in the way of some people trying to use other people that those who wish to do the using spend a lot of effort into discrediting those principles and unfortunately do so very effectively. Your insistence on making yourself free to use by advertisers is a sad testimony to this fact.
I never used the word free when talking about Opera.
Let me refresh your memory:
And for those of us who are ill-informed, Opera doesn't cost a dime.
I see now that you are attempting to weasle out of this by playing with semantics and talking about what amounts to degress of free and calling my position "extreme". Some questions result in answers that are only "yes" or "no". No "gray areas" or "degrees" are possible. In this case, either something is free (monetarilly) or it is not. It cannot be "10% free" or "90% free". Either you pay a dime (or its labour or other material equivalent) or you do not. This "well, if we make them pay in really really small amounts a lot of times they will think its free" attitude is what makes some marketing executives insert more and more advertising into for example TV programming. Granted, a lot of people have been conditioned to think that only corporations' and "professionals'" time is valuable so they put up with paying for cable channels and then watch 20 minutes of commercials every hour. Long forgotten are the days where watching advertising was considered a very steep price for watching TV and it was a marketing mantra of early cable companies who claimed that they will air much less commercials. My view is only "extremist" in society which completely surrendered to the corporate marketing agendas and now sheepishly accepts ever increasing constant stream of flashy and noisy "buy this now!" demands made doubly apalling since they now invariably arrive at the receipients (however small per unit) expense.
The intrusiveness of the ads influences only the amount of time/effort I expend getting rid of them. It does not alter in any degree the fundamental equasion: they are still using up my brain power and time which are not worthless. You disagree, so it appears my time is worthless to you. To follow your thinking to its logical conclusion, if spam consisted of "informative one-liner messages" it would no longer be an expense and nuisance to its recipients since now it is less "intrusive", no? What Opera does and what spam senders do is virually identical but in one regard, you have opted-in for the Opera kind which makes their brand of advertising morally acceptable but it does not make Opera free.
Watching ads is an expense on my part. It wastes my time and the visuals use up my brain cells to reject them as useless noise. Your attitude is precisely what makes all the spam-lords out there think they are providing a "valuable advertising service". You see my time and effort are according to them (and to you it appears) utterly worthless so the spam is free to them and costs me nothing, right? So they cannot fathom why people dont like spam.
To assume that someone's time/effort, no matter how small, is worthless is not only incorrect but also insulting. Consequently, Opera is not free, it merely uses up your time/effort as payment.
I assume you are being really, really sarcastic. In reality the PCs multiplied complexity and expense by orders of magnitude. And only now after decades of chaos and misery all the turd-brained suckers/managers who were responsible for this snake-oil sales bonanza which created the likes of Microsoft are now retreating to the only sane method of enterprise computing: centralized storage and processing. After billions of dollars wasted and con-men very rich by now, the circle is now complete. Of course the managerdiots are now seeing this old idea as "new" after someone smart re-labaled those old concepts with new sales tags like "thin client" or "data warehousing" etc. They would never have allowed someone to hint that they have been taken for a ride and the "priesthood", unlike them, actually had a clue. It is a sad testament to the depths of human stupidity.
PCs are greatest thing ever for game players, home computer users and many other applications like engineering or science. They make no sense on adminstrative workers' desks, yet those presently constitute something like 80% of business PC deployment and come with hordes of MSCEs without whom they would come to a grinding halt within days.
It is even worse than that, having X in the kernel would be wrong and would likely gain no speed and might even lose some. Simply because he forgets that applications are conducting very intensive conversations via graphical APIs with the X server, so moving it to the kernel would simply move context switches from the calls X makes the kernel onto the calls applications make to X. I have not conducted much investigation here but a cursory glance would indicate that the kernel calls made by X are restricted to some bulk AGP/PCI data transfers whereby one context switch occurs per large block of data and on the other hand the APIs exposed to the applications deal with much smaller and frequently used objects like window elements and widgets. So it would probably be a net loss of performance.
Lemme get this straight... you would want to have a large, complex, graphics processing application, likely using 3rd-party binary-only drivers, running with no memory separation in ring 0 inside the kernel?
I believe this idea has been tried before... if my memory serves me right, the proper technical name for it is: "BSOD".
Not to mention the fact that context switches would be required to access all the APIs of said application....
Before the Slashdot crowd came and crashed the site, I posted on the forums there the problems with the installer and how to get around them. This has nothing to do with Linux being somehow inferior and everything to do with whomever created the file not knowing/caring enough about making Linux installation work. Its no different if some Linux programmer wrote this and made a faulty Windows setup.exe that crashed with a blue screen of death.
For those interested, the installer script is called 'install-Maestro' and has a few bugs in it. For one it wants 'rsync' but it does not properly check for its presence. Then if not found it will try to use 'rsync' that it thinks is included in the tarball. Alas whomever packaged it did not include rsync. Then it tries to use 'pwd' and combine its output with the $install variable which produces things like '/home/user/./R2004_01-Public-Linux/SAP/bim' path names. The '.' in the middle kills the process. When you edit the script to make it call rsync properly (you have to get your own rsync installed) it will install. Then you have to make sure that/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2 is on your system because the included Java VM wants one. I just symlinked my/usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 to it.
Beware though, this is a Java application and performance is predictably terrible even with OpenGL accelleration.
You clearly have no idea how apt-get works. Debian can be installed from 2 floppies, CD-ROMS, local hard disk, over ftp, http and nfs, via proxies and straight through. I installed debian from credit-card sized CDs and loaded the rest from Internet. I upgraded RH boxes to debian using debootstrap (a 150k program) via ssh with 1 remote-controlled reboot. Never u mind VNC. The only major fault of the old installer was the inability to handle RAID based installs. I hope the new generation addresses that issue.
That is so typical for people who only know one distribution (RedHat lovers are particularly notorious for that) to sneer and degrade everything they are not familiar with as useless.
Well not quite.
It is a zero-sum game of sorts. You see the amount of any given currency in circulation is finite and is not supposed to be growing (exempting some silly governments trying to finance themselves by printing more money). Thus most of the economic schemes are based on a wacky principle of inifinite growth (notice how the financial news media freaks out about corporate and market "growth") of productivity. If the government simply does not print more money (thus devaluating whats already in circulation) there is no way for the stock prices and corporate incomes to grow. The entire foundation of this sytem is highly questionable. Recent trends like exporting all sorts of jobs out of US in order to take advantage of vast wage differencials between parts of the world while at the same time the US economy is supposedly "growing" should be a good illustration of the simple fact that economists are much more priests of a convoluted religion of money then scientists.
Oh goodey some genius thinks this is a troll as in me trying to put messages up to get people annoyed so they flame me. Really. The fact that noone bothered checking the facts is not important apparently. I do hold some of the loudest bemoaners of Israeli "victimization" who at the same time cheer new settlements going up in rather low regard. Apparently that qualifies me as a troll. I venture to guess whoever moderated this is sympathetic to their view.
This is quite significant me thinks. It would not be unlike some Israeli fanatic to try to cause harm to ppl all the while blaming it on those "filthy" Palestinians. I think it actually fits quite well their mode of thinking. Besides, did anyone bother to check if the poverty ravished, infrastructure depleted Jenine even has an Internet Service Provider?
Slashdot Mirror
I must be having some difficulty with English language here. Please do enlighten me as to your interpretation of word "free". So you are saying it is "not free" as in "you do have to pay for it" (presumably some way measured in dimes) but "you do not have to pay a dime" as in "it does not have any monetary value" wich leads to "you do not have to pay for it" ergo "it is free"? I dont think you can have it both ways.
Seeing as how I'm pbviously an Opera user, it is ignorant of you to assume that I'm unaware of the existence of the ads.
I never indicated anything about you not knowing about the ads, as a matter of fact I did not even mention any of Opera's functionality or quality here. My entrie objection is to calling Opera "free" or saying that it "does not cost a dime".
Your views are exaggerated to an unrealistic extreme.
No, I merely have some fundamental principles and refuse to compromise on them (which would destroy their value). There are many such unalienable, fundamental principles that are universal to human kind. Many of them however get so badly in the way of some people trying to use other people that those who wish to do the using spend a lot of effort into discrediting those principles and unfortunately do so very effectively. Your insistence on making yourself free to use by advertisers is a sad testimony to this fact.
I never used the word free when talking about Opera.
Let me refresh your memory:
And for those of us who are ill-informed, Opera doesn't cost a dime.
I see now that you are attempting to weasle out of this by playing with semantics and talking about what amounts to degress of free and calling my position "extreme". Some questions result in answers that are only "yes" or "no". No "gray areas" or "degrees" are possible. In this case, either something is free (monetarilly) or it is not. It cannot be "10% free" or "90% free". Either you pay a dime (or its labour or other material equivalent) or you do not. This "well, if we make them pay in really really small amounts a lot of times they will think its free" attitude is what makes some marketing executives insert more and more advertising into for example TV programming. Granted, a lot of people have been conditioned to think that only corporations' and "professionals'" time is valuable so they put up with paying for cable channels and then watch 20 minutes of commercials every hour. Long forgotten are the days where watching advertising was considered a very steep price for watching TV and it was a marketing mantra of early cable companies who claimed that they will air much less commercials. My view is only "extremist" in society which completely surrendered to the corporate marketing agendas and now sheepishly accepts ever increasing constant stream of flashy and noisy "buy this now!" demands made doubly apalling since they now invariably arrive at the receipients (however small per unit) expense.
The intrusiveness of the ads influences only the amount of time/effort I expend getting rid of them. It does not alter in any degree the fundamental equasion: they are still using up my brain power and time which are not worthless. You disagree, so it appears my time is worthless to you. To follow your thinking to its logical conclusion, if spam consisted of "informative one-liner messages" it would no longer be an expense and nuisance to its recipients since now it is less "intrusive", no? What Opera does and what spam senders do is virually identical but in one regard, you have opted-in for the Opera kind which makes their brand of advertising morally acceptable but it does not make Opera free.
Watching ads is an expense on my part. It wastes my time and the visuals use up my brain cells to reject them as useless noise. Your attitude is precisely what makes all the spam-lords out there think they are providing a "valuable advertising service". You see my time and effort are according to them (and to you it appears) utterly worthless so the spam is free to them and costs me nothing, right? So they cannot fathom why people dont like spam. To assume that someone's time/effort, no matter how small, is worthless is not only incorrect but also insulting. Consequently, Opera is not free, it merely uses up your time/effort as payment.
I assume you are being really, really sarcastic. In reality the PCs multiplied complexity and expense by orders of magnitude. And only now after decades of chaos and misery all the turd-brained suckers/managers who were responsible for this snake-oil sales bonanza which created the likes of Microsoft are now retreating to the only sane method of enterprise computing: centralized storage and processing. After billions of dollars wasted and con-men very rich by now, the circle is now complete. Of course the managerdiots are now seeing this old idea as "new" after someone smart re-labaled those old concepts with new sales tags like "thin client" or "data warehousing" etc. They would never have allowed someone to hint that they have been taken for a ride and the "priesthood", unlike them, actually had a clue. It is a sad testament to the depths of human stupidity.
PCs are greatest thing ever for game players, home computer users and many other applications like engineering or science. They make no sense on adminstrative workers' desks, yet those presently constitute something like 80% of business PC deployment and come with hordes of MSCEs without whom they would come to a grinding halt within days.
Fast and wrong is never right.
It is even worse than that, having X in the kernel would be wrong and would likely gain no speed and might even lose some. Simply because he forgets that applications are conducting very intensive conversations via graphical APIs with the X server, so moving it to the kernel would simply move context switches from the calls X makes the kernel onto the calls applications make to X. I have not conducted much investigation here but a cursory glance would indicate that the kernel calls made by X are restricted to some bulk AGP/PCI data transfers whereby one context switch occurs per large block of data and on the other hand the APIs exposed to the applications deal with much smaller and frequently used objects like window elements and widgets. So it would probably be a net loss of performance.
I believe this idea has been tried before... if my memory serves me right, the proper technical name for it is: "BSOD".
Not to mention the fact that context switches would be required to access all the APIs of said application....
This is incorrect for some systems. See my comments about rsync and the paths in the above post.
For those interested, the installer script is called 'install-Maestro' and has a few bugs in it. For one it wants 'rsync' but it does not properly check for its presence. Then if not found it will try to use 'rsync' that it thinks is included in the tarball. Alas whomever packaged it did not include rsync. Then it tries to use 'pwd' and combine its output with the $install variable which produces things like '/home/user/./R2004_01-Public-Linux/SAP/bim' path names. The '.' in the middle kills the process. When you edit the script to make it call rsync properly (you have to get your own rsync installed) it will install. Then you have to make sure that /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.1-1.so.2 is on your system because the included Java VM wants one. I just symlinked my /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 to it.
Beware though, this is a Java application and performance is predictably terrible even with OpenGL accelleration.
You clearly have no idea how apt-get works. Debian can be installed from 2 floppies, CD-ROMS, local hard disk, over ftp, http and nfs, via proxies and straight through. I installed debian from credit-card sized CDs and loaded the rest from Internet. I upgraded RH boxes to debian using debootstrap (a 150k program) via ssh with 1 remote-controlled reboot. Never u mind VNC. The only major fault of the old installer was the inability to handle RAID based installs. I hope the new generation addresses that issue.
That is so typical for people who only know one distribution (RedHat lovers are particularly notorious for that) to sneer and degrade everything they are not familiar with as useless.
Well not quite. It is a zero-sum game of sorts. You see the amount of any given currency in circulation is finite and is not supposed to be growing (exempting some silly governments trying to finance themselves by printing more money). Thus most of the economic schemes are based on a wacky principle of inifinite growth (notice how the financial news media freaks out about corporate and market "growth") of productivity. If the government simply does not print more money (thus devaluating whats already in circulation) there is no way for the stock prices and corporate incomes to grow. The entire foundation of this sytem is highly questionable. Recent trends like exporting all sorts of jobs out of US in order to take advantage of vast wage differencials between parts of the world while at the same time the US economy is supposedly "growing" should be a good illustration of the simple fact that economists are much more priests of a convoluted religion of money then scientists.
Oh goodey some genius thinks this is a troll as in me trying to put messages up to get people annoyed so they flame me. Really. The fact that noone bothered checking the facts is not important apparently. I do hold some of the loudest bemoaners of Israeli "victimization" who at the same time cheer new settlements going up in rather low regard. Apparently that qualifies me as a troll. I venture to guess whoever moderated this is sympathetic to their view.
This is quite significant me thinks. It would not be unlike some Israeli fanatic to try to cause harm to ppl all the while blaming it on those "filthy" Palestinians. I think it actually fits quite well their mode of thinking. Besides, did anyone bother to check if the poverty ravished, infrastructure depleted Jenine even has an Internet Service Provider?