People wont stop people stop assuming that being a Christian automatically means you are a young earth creationist until the christians that believe truth is more important than dogma make more noise and get more airplay.
Until then.. relative silence is implicit approval !
Could this mean Hollywood teaming up with the open source movement to destroy software patents ?
Could music content (i.e. the meaning of the words) be covered. Thus seeing the RIAA teaming up with the open source world as well !
The belief that because we dont understand everything so therefore there is a god is superstition - not science.
Thats the way cave men thought when they created their deity's
God may exist... but until science proves he exist - he belongs in religion.
The only serious timing issues ive seen with Evolution have been presented by people who believe the speed of light isnt constant or that the pyramids were built by aliens
The Missing link argument is rather like a version of Xenos paradox... not matter how many times you halv a distance - you never reach the destination....
This sort of fallacy or paradox underlies all the foundation arguments for ID....
You can only believe ID if you are uneducated or not very bright....
I know many christians that believe in eveolution.. but there is a frightenly large number of American Christians (and a small number in other countries) that created and BACK ID..
These are the backers of George Bush... and due to their clout they are scary. And Until an equal or larger number of christians stand up politically and oppose those who support it... you will all be lumped together....
I understand the differences.. but I grew up in a family where books on evolution were burnt. That church now has a congrataion in the 10s of thousands and the leaders are taken to the capital each year and wined and dined by the government...
Whilst you are correct about the case that God could very well have used evolution its irrelevant to the whole ID thing....
First of all... most fundamentalist Churches believe that GOD LITERALLY WROTE the BIBLE.
Now there are many debates on what that actually means and the mechanisms involved but for most fundamentalists it means that every word in the Bible is there because God wanted it there. Every word is literally the word of God.
People who believe this need the bible to be literally true so if the bible says creation took 7 days - its gotta be 7 days.
So the christians in this vein will fight to any change to their interpretation of the Bible. Of course its happened before and will happen again that Biblical interpretation changes (flat earth, sun orbiting the earth, god wants slavery, homosexuality a choice and ID)
The less findamental christians are not so threatened. If they see the bible as having historical context - they are much more willing to accept the bible might use metaphors or apochryphal imagery that should not be taken literally.
These people are not threatened by truth or science.
These are NOT the people behind ID.
The science side is simple. Its either science or its not. ID is not science and should not be taught as such. It maybe that God directed evolution. ID may even be true... Science doesnt contend that ID is NOT true. It merely says that it can never be proven and there is NO evidence to show that its true and as such is Faith based and should be taught as faith and not as science.
For an atheist Faith based means superstition and they rank that with the cargo cults and so forth. Would you want me to teach ur Kids IN SICIENCE that they need to throw salt over their shoulders when they spill salt to ward of bad luck when you spill salt ? Its exactly the same thing.
So - there two sides are VERY different... one says only science should be taught in science classes... and they other says OUR interpretation of Christianity (which is not universal even in the USA let alone the first world or worldwide) should be taught in science classes.
The USAs approach to religion has - ironically - caused a move away from religion in almost ALL other first world countries...its CLEARLY documented that the merger of religion and politics is causing social problems which no one else wants> Also the USA is slipping in science achivenment compared to other countries....
This is how important these issues are...
Look at the study of Fundamentalism....
there is a lot of research on this. Conservatism and religion are not the same.. but they are inexorably and closely linked...(as is social dysfunction sadly enough)
Im as opposed to any religion taught as science.
I have seen children die because their parents opposed blood transfusions
I was denied television as a child because watching it would cause me to be possed by demons. I had science books burnt.
My parents were nice well integrated members of our community who let faith orverrule truth.
ID is not a scientific theory. Its not verifiable. It doesnt match occams Razor. It doesnt enable prediction.
Its also not needed. If creationism is true... evolution must be demonstrable false... and so far its not.. every anti evolution argument i have ever seen has been disproven decades ago.. including the "They have never found the link fossils"
That doesnt say its correct. It DOES say its the best simplest explanation of all the data available.
ID is just religious belief. I dont object to religion or faith teachings.. taught as religion.
Its very simple and frankly its no more of a real threat to an all powerful creator than a flat earth
iF U RUN on past data and it predicts what happened next.. its still a prediction.... not for us now.. but it in the context of showing a validity of a model... (or formula) it is Prediction.
As a scientist and a believer in God (and due to the rise of the religious right I will NOT claim to be a christian any more.. ) ID is very scary.
Christianity has opposed science before.
It declared the world was flat because the bible talks about the 4 corners of the earth.
It declared that the sun revolved around the earth
In the USA - the same areas that now are fighting FOR ID - declared that slavery was mandated by God.
Christianity now opposes Macro Evolution and that Homosexuality is genetic.
the evidence for both of these are now extremely well documented...... to a level far greater than that documenting how gravity works. They all accept gravity - because it doesnt require a change to their teaching.
Using Occams razor stops ID dead in its tracks... but this isnt about truth or about science.. its about religious dogma.
Science in the USA is threatened to its core as politics and religion shackle it. Funding is now only available to areas that dont threaten religious groups. The commitment to searching for the truth is gone... its now fedning belief AGAINST truth...
That is a very disturbing change in an education or research organisation.
Anyone who cares for truth or freedom or science should be fighting ID now.
IF anyone thinks ID is a valid theory - then they should be researching the MANY large areas of inadequacy in it.. not fighting to introduce a demonstrably unprovable theorem into school classes.
History shows an inexorable fall if these anti reason forces gain ascendancy and take us back to the dark ages of religious dogma (compare the otroman empire at its height to the Muslim world today)... Thats why its important...
Over here - Fox has a low reputation as an un biased new source.
Its held up as an example of a BIG Business front that warps information in amazing ways.
Our news industry are amazed its survives its so blatantly unreliable.
I wondered if anyone would see the connection here. The timeframes are close to what Ray K. suggests in 'The age of...' although from memory - the date for the $1K PC with Human processing power is 2020 (but i could be wrong)
The interesting difference is at that point Ray see's Humans evolving. By 2050 what it means to be human will be beginning to change - a growing number will be cyborgs etc. This article suggests however that humanity will remain constant - and while based on past history that seems reasonable - I know I would be waiting only for the bugs to be worked out before I backed myself up onto other platforms etc etc
Slashdot Mirror
People wont stop people stop assuming that being a Christian automatically means you are a young earth creationist until the christians that believe truth is more important than dogma make more noise and get more airplay. Until then .. relative silence is implicit approval !
If he is smart hes got a lot of others ready to go... The prior art thing will make this interesting though !
Could this mean Hollywood teaming up with the open source movement to destroy software patents ? Could music content (i.e. the meaning of the words) be covered. Thus seeing the RIAA teaming up with the open source world as well !
The belief that because we dont understand everything so therefore there is a god is superstition - not science. Thats the way cave men thought when they created their deity's God may exist... but until science proves he exist - he belongs in religion. The only serious timing issues ive seen with Evolution have been presented by people who believe the speed of light isnt constant or that the pyramids were built by aliens
The Missing link argument is rather like a version of Xenos paradox... not matter how many times you halv a distance - you never reach the destination.... This sort of fallacy or paradox underlies all the foundation arguments for ID.... You can only believe ID if you are uneducated or not very bright....
I know many christians that believe in eveolution.. but there is a frightenly large number of American Christians (and a small number in other countries) that created and BACK ID.. These are the backers of George Bush... and due to their clout they are scary. And Until an equal or larger number of christians stand up politically and oppose those who support it... you will all be lumped together.... I understand the differences.. but I grew up in a family where books on evolution were burnt. That church now has a congrataion in the 10s of thousands and the leaders are taken to the capital each year and wined and dined by the government...
Whilst you are correct about the case that God could very well have used evolution its irrelevant to the whole ID thing.... First of all... most fundamentalist Churches believe that GOD LITERALLY WROTE the BIBLE. Now there are many debates on what that actually means and the mechanisms involved but for most fundamentalists it means that every word in the Bible is there because God wanted it there. Every word is literally the word of God. People who believe this need the bible to be literally true so if the bible says creation took 7 days - its gotta be 7 days. So the christians in this vein will fight to any change to their interpretation of the Bible. Of course its happened before and will happen again that Biblical interpretation changes (flat earth, sun orbiting the earth, god wants slavery, homosexuality a choice and ID) The less findamental christians are not so threatened. If they see the bible as having historical context - they are much more willing to accept the bible might use metaphors or apochryphal imagery that should not be taken literally. These people are not threatened by truth or science. These are NOT the people behind ID. The science side is simple. Its either science or its not. ID is not science and should not be taught as such. It maybe that God directed evolution. ID may even be true... Science doesnt contend that ID is NOT true. It merely says that it can never be proven and there is NO evidence to show that its true and as such is Faith based and should be taught as faith and not as science. For an atheist Faith based means superstition and they rank that with the cargo cults and so forth. Would you want me to teach ur Kids IN SICIENCE that they need to throw salt over their shoulders when they spill salt to ward of bad luck when you spill salt ? Its exactly the same thing. So - there two sides are VERY different ... one says only science should be taught in science classes... and they other says OUR interpretation of Christianity (which is not universal even in the USA let alone the first world or worldwide) should be taught in science classes.
The USAs approach to religion has - ironically - caused a move away from religion in almost ALL other first world countries...its CLEARLY documented that the merger of religion and politics is causing social problems which no one else wants> Also the USA is slipping in science achivenment compared to other countries....
This is how important these issues are...
Look at the study of Fundamentalism ....
there is a lot of research on this. Conservatism and religion are not the same.. but they are inexorably and closely linked...(as is social dysfunction sadly enough)
Im as opposed to any religion taught as science. I have seen children die because their parents opposed blood transfusions I was denied television as a child because watching it would cause me to be possed by demons. I had science books burnt. My parents were nice well integrated members of our community who let faith orverrule truth. ID is not a scientific theory. Its not verifiable. It doesnt match occams Razor. It doesnt enable prediction. Its also not needed. If creationism is true... evolution must be demonstrable false ... and so far its not.. every anti evolution argument i have ever seen has been disproven decades ago.. including the "They have never found the link fossils"
That doesnt say its correct. It DOES say its the best simplest explanation of all the data available.
ID is just religious belief. I dont object to religion or faith teachings.. taught as religion.
Its very simple and frankly its no more of a real threat to an all powerful creator than a flat earth
iF U RUN on past data and it predicts what happened next.. its still a prediction.... not for us now.. but it in the context of showing a validity of a model... (or formula) it is Prediction.
As a scientist and a believer in God (and due to the rise of the religious right I will NOT claim to be a christian any more .. ) ID is very scary.
Christianity has opposed science before.
It declared the world was flat because the bible talks about the 4 corners of the earth.
It declared that the sun revolved around the earth
In the USA - the same areas that now are fighting FOR ID - declared that slavery was mandated by God.
Christianity now opposes Macro Evolution and that Homosexuality is genetic.
the evidence for both of these are now extremely well documented... ... to a level far greater than that documenting how gravity works. They all accept gravity - because it doesnt require a change to their teaching.
Using Occams razor stops ID dead in its tracks... but this isnt about truth or about science.. its about religious dogma.
Science in the USA is threatened to its core as politics and religion shackle it. Funding is now only available to areas that dont threaten religious groups. The commitment to searching for the truth is gone... its now fedning belief AGAINST truth...
That is a very disturbing change in an education or research organisation.
Anyone who cares for truth or freedom or science should be fighting ID now.
IF anyone thinks ID is a valid theory - then they should be researching the MANY large areas of inadequacy in it .. not fighting to introduce a demonstrably unprovable theorem into school classes.
History shows an inexorable fall if these anti reason forces gain ascendancy and take us back to the dark ages of religious dogma (compare the otroman empire at its height to the Muslim world today) ... Thats why its important...
Get real !! Science with a bit of creationism IS NOT SCIENCE>. its myth and fable and takes us back to the dark ages...
Over here - Fox has a low reputation as an un biased new source. Its held up as an example of a BIG Business front that warps information in amazing ways. Our news industry are amazed its survives its so blatantly unreliable.
I wondered if anyone would see the connection here. The timeframes are close to what Ray K. suggests in 'The age of...' although from memory - the date for the $1K PC with Human processing power is 2020 (but i could be wrong) The interesting difference is at that point Ray see's Humans evolving. By 2050 what it means to be human will be beginning to change - a growing number will be cyborgs etc. This article suggests however that humanity will remain constant - and while based on past history that seems reasonable - I know I would be waiting only for the bugs to be worked out before I backed myself up onto other platforms etc etc