Even if the law in question expires in about 5 months, FISA will continue to exist and be utilizes (or, rather in this administration, circumvented).
I really don't have a problem with a warranted search and siezure. Show me a warrant that was issued upon affirmation and oath, I have no problem with it.
The British are heavily involved, and the way it works is that the British are given wiretap access to US calls, which is legal under British law - though it breaks US law, the violation is occurring in Britain, beyond the reach of US law.
But the US has had several instances of people being extradited for 'crimes against the US' performed outside the borders of the US, reputedly beyond the reach of US law. SOME of them actually end up in a courtroom...
America is one nation under a Constitution. Although the Constitution sets up a representative democracy, it specifically was amended with the Bill of Rights in 1791 to uphold individual and minority rights. On constitutional matters we do not have majority rule. For example, when the majority in certain localities voted to segregate blacks, this was declared illegal. The Constitution is the foundation for law in this country, just because people vote in politicians who will do what they want it doesn't mean they can contravene that document.
That may be true. But it will be a practical technique for a long time. Personally, I see nothing in the 4th amendment that is intended to limit non-intrusive searches, such as eavesdropping. Outlawing encryption would be a clear violation of the 4th Amendment. However, whether or not it's a "good thing" I don't see anything unconstitutional about eavesdropping or "warrantless wiretapping."
Oh? What part of 'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized' are you having difficulty understanding? Seems to me that telecommunications is covered under 'papers and effects' by the Constitution. But, hey, IANAL The government keeps telling me that I'm too 'ignorant' to understand the full implications of this so I really need THIS instead.
I am not against the government using FISA to intercept communications to fight CRIME ('terrorism' is vague, and overly subjective) but I am AGAINST the government doing so without warrants, going against their own prescribed checks and balances. The FISA court was set up to handle this type of thing. The FISA court was sidestepped by the current administration for years before it came to light. The government should do what it can to maintain national security, however it should do so LEGALLY.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Like the only publicised use of the USA PATRIOT Act so far has been to bust some guys in Vegas for influencing the local government? They could just as easily been prosecuted under RICO. It's been 6 years since 9/11. Where's Osama? How many detainees in Gitmo are going to be prosecuted for it? I'm sorry, but shredding 'that goddamned piece of paper' and spending all that money on not one but two wars with only 'Well, we helped the Germans shut down Al-Queda's competitors so we need to make these changes permenant' just doesn't cut it with me.
And the government trying to tell me 'Hey, we didn't have a clue this was gonna happen' doesn't wash either
when the CIA says 'Hey, we screwed up and transposed 2 letters in this guy's name. We bad. Sorry.'
Bin-Laden was prosecuted and convicted in absentia for the previous bombing attempt against the WTC back in the 90's. Why did we need USA PATRIOT to go after him when RICO was just fine? Bin-Laden has never been a priority. If he were, we'dve had him long before 9/11. Whether or not the Powers That Be had anything to do with pulling off the 9/11 attacks is immaterial. The fact remains they certainly benefited from the attacks.
And therein is the problem; because making a copy in RAM of a computer program, which is made as a necessary step in the execution of the program, constitutes Fair Dealing or otherwise does not infringe copyright. If you weren't allowed to make that copy in memory, then you wouldn't be able to use the program for its rightful purpose; and goods which are sold to consumers must by law be fit for purpose.
Thing is, the end-user licenses usually state the disc is sold as-is, and no guarantees are made to its useability. Sure, it's stretching it a bit to say that an unreadable disc isn't guaranteed according to the end-user license, but I doubt if any software company will try to pull that stunt. It'd generate so much bad reputation they'd have to change their name...
Know how many switches there are in the world? Know how many telephone companies? Do you think the NSA has taps in all those switches and at all those telephone companies? Do you think they can really divert things in real time? Don't ya think someone at one of these companies would notice that everything has redundant lines that they are not even using.
In the US, maybe 50,000 switches,tops. You're maybe thinking each individual customer needs their own switch or something? And yes, every switch in the US does have the capability to be tapped without anyone knowing it, and have been capable of it since digital switches went online.
I think you are a nutter who has no clue what you are talking about. As far as analysis, I'm not talking about looking at headers (trivial), I'm talking about decoding beyond the TCP level and dealing with things like packet fragmentation (both non-trivial) just to get to any real data. Sure, computers can help, but try to keep up with just those two things in real time on a terrabit link.
You're still missing out on two concepts. First, the money. We're talking about the organisation who has access to TRILLIONS of dollars. And if they run short, who's to stop them from printing more? On a scale like that, YOUR salary for the next DECADE isn't even donut money. You and I don't have the resources to pull something like this, but that doesn't mean the government doesn't either.
Second thing you're missing is, access to highly expensive computers. Ever wonder how many supercomputers Cray sold to the Feds in the last couple years? Sure, their stock is down at the moment, but the fiscal year is ending up in a couple months, so the next wave of purchases by the Fed should hit in a month. The Feds are their biggest customers, have been for years. And that's just Cray. How much IBM gear do the Feds buy every year? My best guess, 'probably a lot'.
And why do you think all this analysis needs to be done in real time? Just filter for interesting stuff, and flag the record for later analysis. Doesn't take much computer capacity to store a couple hours worth of records, especially if you wipe the stuff that's not that interesting. Unless of course you think your gramma's apple pie recipe is interesting. Well, maybe to you, but probably not to the Feds, unless she uses Sarin in it. Would they keep a copy of the non-Sarin version? Not likely.
You're forgetting you have to divert and filter a shitload of packets coming through fast enough that nobody notices the delays in the conversation. Yeah, ISPs do it, kinda, but they're filtering on headers, not content. Audio is audio, so that doesn't help much.
99% of all telephone lines these days are digital. And they're transmitted over the very same fiber optic lines that data is. Telephones haven't been 'analog' for a couple decades.
That's totally incorrect. The lynch-pin in the legitimacy of the constitutional power of the Federal Courts is the fact that their power constitutionally is limited to actual *cases* and *controversies* brought before it by adverse parties with proper standing.
Problem is, cases that never make it before the SCOTUS can have serious constitutional issues as well, but be knocked out by 'executive order' like the recent lawsuits against telecoms being thrown out due to 'national security'. SCOTUS will never hear those kinds of cases, thus, will never be able to rule on their constitutionality.
the ALCU defended rush limbaugh of all the republican assholes on the planet, they defended his privacy. Furthermore it's the violation of the constitution that that picture represents that offends us so - we are offended by christian supremacist bastards who think they own the country.
Even assholes like Rush Limbaugh have the right to free speech in this country. And I have the right to not listen to his radio show. I indulge that right on a daily basis, I listen to my local jurassic rock station.
So the US has a system to tap all calls, including all internet traffic. Wow, that's unpossible. Not to mention, someone has to look at all of this traffic, someone has to listen to all the calls. I'm not a math major, but I think the odds are against the US or anyone short of Xenu from actually having something like what you describe in place.
It's not 'unpossible', it's in place. Know what a telephone switch is? A computer. Know how easy it is to divert and filter packets going through a computer? Trivial. Know how hard it is to have those packets analysed by the switch, or optionally, another computer the packets are forwarded to? Also trivial. Where it gets human-intensive is the second order analysis, when the computer flags stuff for human eyes to look over. That takes a bit of programming to get right. Now, Fed programmers may not be the brightest of the bright, but there's a lot of them. Given enough time, I have zero doubt they can write filtering programs. And sometimes, they might even get one that works. You're simply not thinking in large enough terms. The Feds have trillions of dollars to play with. Diverting a couple billion to handle the task is no big thing for them.
Human analysis is the achiles heel. Computers can only do so much.
Again, look at the big picture. Throw enough money at a problem, you'll come up with something.
First of all, why should we have that stipulation? I don't think people have a right to medical care, but whatever.
What about the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Seems to me that good health is necessary to life as well as the pursuit of happiness.
For those of you too lazy to click a mouse, that's the Office of Faith-Based & Community Initiatives, where the Feds subsidise churches & church leaders to do things the government wants to stop doing. In a word, outsourcing. And yes, your tax dollars pay for this.
There are other examples of military equipment that hasn't undergone a significant redesign in a long time due to lack of need.
Consider the AK-47. Originally inspired by a WW2 German Army weapon, it was designed to operate without cleaning, with sand in the barrel, even after being run over with a tank. In many ways, the AK is the pinacle of assault weapon design. MUCH prefered to than the M16, in my book. And yeah, I fired both.
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I really don't have a problem with a warranted search and siezure. Show me a warrant that was issued upon affirmation and oath, I have no problem with it.
I still want my lawyer present, though.
Hmm. Grenada isn't on the list. Guess I know where I'm retiring to...
No real profit in that.
No problem.
But the US has had several instances of people being extradited for 'crimes against the US' performed outside the borders of the US, reputedly beyond the reach of US law. SOME of them actually end up in a courtroom...
Actually, the Founders were pretty 'big' on state's rights and individual rights, not so big on federal rights. Course, it's been awhile since the last challange to federal rights happened...
Oh? What part of 'The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized' are you having difficulty understanding? Seems to me that telecommunications is covered under 'papers and effects' by the Constitution. But, hey, IANAL The government keeps telling me that I'm too 'ignorant' to understand the full implications of this so I really need THIS instead.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Like the only publicised use of the USA PATRIOT Act so far has been to bust some guys in Vegas for influencing the local government? They could just as easily been prosecuted under RICO. It's been 6 years since 9/11. Where's Osama? How many detainees in Gitmo are going to be prosecuted for it? I'm sorry, but shredding 'that goddamned piece of paper' and spending all that money on not one but two wars with only 'Well, we helped the Germans shut down Al-Queda's competitors so we need to make these changes permenant' just doesn't cut it with me.
And the government trying to tell me 'Hey, we didn't have a clue this was gonna happen' doesn't wash either when the CIA says 'Hey, we screwed up and transposed 2 letters in this guy's name. We bad. Sorry.'
Bin-Laden was prosecuted and convicted in absentia for the previous bombing attempt against the WTC back in the 90's. Why did we need USA PATRIOT to go after him when RICO was just fine? Bin-Laden has never been a priority. If he were, we'dve had him long before 9/11. Whether or not the Powers That Be had anything to do with pulling off the 9/11 attacks is immaterial. The fact remains they certainly benefited from the attacks.
Kinda hard to believe of a guy who had an extended stay at the Hanoi Hilton.
Naw, glue 'em to a 747 and watch the cops go nuts when they see it moving at over 400 MPH...
Boats typically have rotten fuel efficiency compared to cars. You're lucky to get 2 gallons/mile out of most of them.
Thing is, the end-user licenses usually state the disc is sold as-is, and no guarantees are made to its useability. Sure, it's stretching it a bit to say that an unreadable disc isn't guaranteed according to the end-user license, but I doubt if any software company will try to pull that stunt. It'd generate so much bad reputation they'd have to change their name...
Oh, wait...
studying for a blood test...
A case of having cake & eating it too?
In the US, maybe 50,000 switches,tops. You're maybe thinking each individual customer needs their own switch or something? And yes, every switch in the US does have the capability to be tapped without anyone knowing it, and have been capable of it since digital switches went online.
You're still missing out on two concepts. First, the money. We're talking about the organisation who has access to TRILLIONS of dollars. And if they run short, who's to stop them from printing more? On a scale like that, YOUR salary for the next DECADE isn't even donut money. You and I don't have the resources to pull something like this, but that doesn't mean the government doesn't either.
Second thing you're missing is, access to highly expensive computers. Ever wonder how many supercomputers Cray sold to the Feds in the last couple years? Sure, their stock is down at the moment, but the fiscal year is ending up in a couple months, so the next wave of purchases by the Fed should hit in a month. The Feds are their biggest customers, have been for years. And that's just Cray. How much IBM gear do the Feds buy every year? My best guess, 'probably a lot'.
And why do you think all this analysis needs to be done in real time? Just filter for interesting stuff, and flag the record for later analysis. Doesn't take much computer capacity to store a couple hours worth of records, especially if you wipe the stuff that's not that interesting. Unless of course you think your gramma's apple pie recipe is interesting. Well, maybe to you, but probably not to the Feds, unless she uses Sarin in it. Would they keep a copy of the non-Sarin version? Not likely.
99% of all telephone lines these days are digital. And they're transmitted over the very same fiber optic lines that data is. Telephones haven't been 'analog' for a couple decades.
Problem is, cases that never make it before the SCOTUS can have serious constitutional issues as well, but be knocked out by 'executive order' like the recent lawsuits against telecoms being thrown out due to 'national security'. SCOTUS will never hear those kinds of cases, thus, will never be able to rule on their constitutionality.
Illegal in 29 states AND Ohio.
Even assholes like Rush Limbaugh have the right to free speech in this country. And I have the right to not listen to his radio show. I indulge that right on a daily basis, I listen to my local jurassic rock station.
It's not 'unpossible', it's in place. Know what a telephone switch is? A computer. Know how easy it is to divert and filter packets going through a computer? Trivial. Know how hard it is to have those packets analysed by the switch, or optionally, another computer the packets are forwarded to? Also trivial. Where it gets human-intensive is the second order analysis, when the computer flags stuff for human eyes to look over. That takes a bit of programming to get right. Now, Fed programmers may not be the brightest of the bright, but there's a lot of them. Given enough time, I have zero doubt they can write filtering programs. And sometimes, they might even get one that works. You're simply not thinking in large enough terms. The Feds have trillions of dollars to play with. Diverting a couple billion to handle the task is no big thing for them.
Again, look at the big picture. Throw enough money at a problem, you'll come up with something.
I read the article on NY Times. Sounds straight out of the NeoCon playbook to me. And that scares me.
What about the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Seems to me that good health is necessary to life as well as the pursuit of happiness.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/
For those of you too lazy to click a mouse, that's the Office of Faith-Based & Community Initiatives, where the Feds subsidise churches & church leaders to do things the government wants to stop doing. In a word, outsourcing. And yes, your tax dollars pay for this.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/hail-caesar -by-digby-ive-been-getting.html
Interesting reading...
Consider the AK-47. Originally inspired by a WW2 German Army weapon, it was designed to operate without cleaning, with sand in the barrel, even after being run over with a tank. In many ways, the AK is the pinacle of assault weapon design. MUCH prefered to than the M16, in my book. And yeah, I fired both.