No you don't. APT does it, is tested, and works.
on
KDE Installer Project
·
· Score: 3
I'd like to see KDE and Gnome get together and share helixcode's installer.
No offence, but you most definitely don't. The Helixcode installer force installs every package. This is a bad thing, and even worse that Helixcode choose not to document the fact broadly. Thus IRC channels and mailing lists are being perpetually flooded with users complaining the installer has raped their system. Try jumping on mandrake-expert sometime. It ain't pretty sorting out the mess. Ditto all the Red Hat 6.2 users who installed Helix before trying updating to 7.0
You could use Red Carpet, but frankly I don't think much of Ximian or their products (most notable the registration of about ten or fifteen KDE tradmarks on Google adwords).
Their already a packaging system independent automatic installer avaliable, that is tested and proved. Debian has used it for a long time, and many people use the distribution simply because of this (Debian is too hands on for me, I like the automation of other distributions). THe recent RPM port of APT (it was originally designed to be portable) by Connective means that Connectiva now uses this system and Linux Mandrake 7.3 will in the future.
I'd be greatly concerned about any product called `secure Telnet'. Simple because I've been telling clients to uninstall Telnet and ban the protocols use within their networks for quite some time. I'm sure many other admins have too. `Secure Telnet' would make things confusing.
Furthermore, that isn't what SSH does - Telnet is generally used (in sites I work at) to test SMTP and HTTP servers. SSH is used as a secure method of running shells, and graphical apps (Telnet should be avoided for the first and makes the second a headache). Telnet lacks file transfer mechanisms.
not everyone is going to be a security guru right off the bat, but until you actually are able to distinguish SSH from OpenSSH, then I'm not sure why it matters as you clearly haven't passed the minimum intelligence test to use either.
Um, you don't get it. The point of the protocol is they're not supposed to be limited to security professonals, but to people without seignificant security experience and need to remotely access shells, graphical apps, perform secure copies, anbd secure FTP etc. I'd hate if anything `secure' was limited to security professionals. Wouldn't you? As you said, there's a whole heap of Telnet servers around and people who think its okay to use them (printer and router companies that don't use SSH give me the shits. They aren't security professionals. SSH discourages that behaviour.
No, you are incorrect in suggesting that I'm saying the projects should merge.
I'm arguing for a consistent UI. Yes, competition is good, but first and formost is a consistently behaving UI (really - those that have standardized interfaces don't worry about competition, those who have competition worry about standrized UIs). You're a developer, and it sounds liek your workmates are - you seem to pick toolktis based on how easy theya re to develop for. But face the inevitable reality that end user spick apps based on quality rather than toolkit. There's no reason File -> Open should look different in KDE than GNOME. Yes, let them use different keyboard shortcuts. Bet let them use different keyboard shortcuts over every applciation, rather than 45% each.
If every app you run uses a different toolkit, then you're going to end up with an inconsistant desktop.
That's not the solution.
Non technical people pick their apps based on quality, not toolkit. I use Konqueror because its good, I use rp3 because its good. There's absolutely no reason why GTK and QT couldn't...
a) Use the same theming engine
b) Make sure a similar rnage of widgets is available on both platforms
c) Write a combined style guide similar to the MacOS Human Interface Guidelines for consistent application interfaces, so file -> open in Gimp looks the same as file -> open in Konq.
They already share the same drag and drop protocol, and soon they'll share MIME types.
I've always wondered about the rationale behind this. The point of anti-aliased text, it seems, is that without it, jagged edges seem like characteristics of the actual glyph. I.e., its like walking through a forest at night - there are things which look like the path you're travelling, but aren't. When you're reading the text, your brain goes `the glyph seems to curve here', but it actually doesn't - you're just following the arrangement of the pixels.
At smaller point sizes, the size and frequency of these `false paths' increases. It would seem to me that small characters are more important to antialias than large characters. Try reading Verdana at size six antialiased and non-antialiased. AA is readable, otherwise isn't.
Anyone have any ideas? Microsoft typography generally know what they're doing, so I trust there's a rationale behind the decision. Or maybe its a technical limitation of their GDI...
You may be right - but the error most definitely also occurs when attempting to play CSS enabled films with non-CSS enabled Xine. Regardless, I'm checking my work with xine-devel...
I am aware the VOB Slashdot posted isn't encrypted. But we weren't talking about that just then - the poster I'm replying to was talking about how he tried using Xine to play DVDs.
I tried xine, and it has messages flying by about some demux error.
That's my fault - I'm the Xine documentation guy and I'm still hacking my SGML. The reason for the demux error is you live in the United States, where the legality of non MPAA licensed DVD players is undertain. Therefore, the version of xine you downloaded off sourceforge is not able to work with the content scrambling system used on most DVDs.
I was recently having a discussion with a friend about railgun (a mutual acquaintance has one mounted on the side panels of his car, aimed backwards), and our plans to publish Railgun Living Magazine, a lifestyle magazine
for railgun enthusiasts and their families to enjoy their hobby, and learn about new and enjoyable uses for railguns, railgun accessories, and the like. We were originally going to call it `Better Railguns and Rails' but we thought it was a little derivative...
Railguns don't kill people. People kill people. People will railguns just enjoy it more.
All the best railing for you and your family this railing season!
I've seen some impressive improvements with the release of 2.4.0 and now 2.4.1
The least of which is khttpd, which (like IIS) handles static web requests in kernel space, and (unlike IIS) passes more security sensitive dynamic content requests to a userlevel server, such as Red Hat's Tux.
Tux 1.0 holds the Specweb (also used by IIS for five years until MS got their arse whopped by Tux:-) ) benchmark current records for 2, 4, and 8 processor IA32 machines. Tux 2.0 is out, and its major feature is performance improvements:).
I'd be interested in a benchmark of the fastest webs ervers avliable on both platform - say, Tux versus Zeus (easily the best proprietary webserver) on Free BSD. As for Apache... well, the mods I use work with Tux, so this benchmark doesn't interest me. Or the web portion of it anyway.
There's absolutely no reason why the user the GNOME and KDE projects are aiming for will pick all their applications based on toolkit. In fact, far more likely is that they will piock them based on quality.
Unfortunately, GTK and QT loook different. Consistency is one of the key ways of getting a user used to your system. There's no reason why a user should change the look and feel of half their application from one program, and the other half
with another.
Once that occurs, both projects should write a common set of human unterface guidelines and hash out a set of common controls, UI standards, etc. This may (will) mean modifications to the toolkits to support the samre variety of widgets.
The GNOME team should focus on making KDE applets integrate into their desktop. The KDE team should focus on making GNOME apps behave the same.
Both projects are doing fine. Unfortunately, both projects are enhancing the Linux desktop at the same time they are damaging it. MOst people don't realize Windows uses two toolkits - but over time, MFC and Borlands VCL have merged to look and feel acactly the same. Nobody undertands the value of a style guide when the first app is produced. When the second m thirs, and forth app is produced they do. Consistency is important
Unfortunately both teams seem to have no idea about this, from my investigations and discussion with various GNOME developers and one KDE developer. This is the biggest problem with GNOME and KDE.
Maybe include a loud constant 20 kHz tone that's filetered out on "protected" hardware, thereby causing people listening to the raw source to get headaches...
That's exactly what I meant - I'm wasn't talking about the sameple rate, I was talking about introducing a noise at a pitch that would screw up most mp3 encoders....30khz was chosen because its beyong human hearing rage and beyond most mp3 encoders...
anything that's coming out of the sound card itself is not going to be scrambled if you want anyone to be able to hear it through speakers.
My guess is a Macrovision type method - experiement until you find an inaudible signal that screws up recording. The format could sent lots of data beyond the range of human hearing. Would a large chunk of data beyond the extreme range (say 30khz?) of most mp3 encoders do? Badly written ones might choke.
Yes, that solution isn't perfect. Make another encoder. But copy protection isn't about making it impossible. its about making it difficult enough.
Or just start seeling consumers, new cooler `Windows Media Enabled!' speakers which only decrypt on the way to the speaker cones. Add some real features in there so people will but them.
Now you certainly aren't going to be watching Windows Media under linux...
Actually, the Windows Media Format is properly known as ASF - Advanced/Active Streaming Format. Microsoft claims the codec is open and documented - which is true, in an MS like way...i.e, without a licensing agreement and NDA, the only publicly avaliable documents descrive ASF version 2. This would bea good thing if 100% of the content found on the Internet wasn't in ASF 1 format, which is is.
Luckily some smart folk have reverse engineered and documented the ASF 1 format and are using it to make the avifile project (which currently plays DivXs and ASF using thin layer of Wine to implement the Win32 avifile API) actually implement its codecs natively.
This is a good thing. So help them out.
And don't make a player. We have enough. Port more codecs and fix the existing players.
However, eMachines was a product clearly trying to divert potential iMac purchasers to their eerily-similar product. In short, they used the look, then tried to convince people it was their own look. This is clearly wrong.
I don't know about the US, asides from it being, as Alan Cox puts it, `a small country between Canada and Mexico'.
Butin Australia, Apple sued a company that made a machine made out of darkish transparent plastic. A seperate monitor, shared like a regular PC just a little more rounded. and a seperate case which wasshaped like a bloody great big fish because `it looked like an imac'.
It's another thing to blatantly use the same thin lines that adorn all the windows (and the case of the iMac). Copy the Bondi blue exactly by looking up its Pantone color. Placing an apple in the exact same areas of the screen, with the piece cut out, just like the logo.
Agreed a hundred percent, and when Apple went through themes.org a few months back and removed the obvious clones, most of Slashdot supported them in their Action.
But this isn't fake Apple logos, exact lines. basically, its anything which looks like a gel-capped widget.
I wonder if someone did gell capped widgets in another color (green or orange) whether Apple would sue...
In other news, it has been reported Apple is taking up a suit against the entire apple industry
Ironically, when Apple first rose to prominence, theyw ere sued by Apple Records UK (the Beatles record company). Apple won, but a part of the agreement were forbidden to make musically related products.
Hence all system sounds in MacOS are not musica instruments. Except for one entitled `sosumi', or `so sue me'...
If I find out about a trade secret of yours & I havent signed a NDA with you, you have absolutely no right to stop me doing waht I want with your trade secrets, including selling it to the world & making millions out of it
I'm not disagreeing with you, but could you please explain why the MPAA versus (DeCSS team and distributor) focused so much (ie, was based) on trade secrets is lieu of this?
Yes, this is genuine. I'm a committe member for Linux users of Victoria This was recently sent to out committee. I've removed the email addresses to prevent harassment of the people involved.
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:42:50 -0800
From: Holly Lindsey
To: "'XXX@luv.asn.au'"
Subject: Networking Heaven
Hello,
My name is Holly Lindsey and I am a recruiter with Microsoft in the US.
First, I want to apologize if it is inappropriate to approach your
organization. I understand lovers of Linux/Unix sometimes don't have much
love for Microsoft, but I'd like to get this information out to ALL the
serious software developers.
We will be conducting interviews in Sydney in March for the Windows Core
Networking team. I have a deep respect for users of Linux/Unix and know they
are sometimes the most hard core devoted programmers out there. We are
looking for the best and brightest to join our team to produce the next
generation of Windows. The Windows Core Networking team is responsible for
building the next generation networking for Windows workstation and server
platforms. This includes high performance network interfaces and transports,
networking services that provide security, load balancing, scalable
multicast capabilities and seamless wireless LAN experience, and
technologies to make networking self configuring, self diagnosing and self
healing. This group works with Windows Workstation (Consumer and Professional) and Server teams to ensure that these products are second to
none in networking offerings. For more information about this product see
their site at: http://microsoft.com/windows/default.asp.
If you would be interested in learning more about our opportunities in this
area, please don't hesitate to contact me directly at hollyl@microsoft.com
and check out our web site at http://www.microsoft.com/jobs/intl.
Sincerely,
Holly Lindsey
Associate Recruiter, International
Microsoft Corporation
Slashdot Mirror
I'd like to see KDE and Gnome get together and share helixcode's installer.
No offence, but you most definitely don't. The Helixcode installer force installs every package. This is a bad thing, and even worse that Helixcode choose not to document the fact broadly. Thus IRC channels and mailing lists are being perpetually flooded with users complaining the installer has raped their system. Try jumping on mandrake-expert sometime. It ain't pretty sorting out the mess. Ditto all the Red Hat 6.2 users who installed Helix before trying updating to 7.0
You could use Red Carpet, but frankly I don't think much of Ximian or their products (most notable the registration of about ten or fifteen KDE tradmarks on Google adwords).
Their already a packaging system independent automatic installer avaliable, that is tested and proved. Debian has used it for a long time, and many people use the distribution simply because of this (Debian is too hands on for me, I like the automation of other distributions). THe recent RPM port of APT (it was originally designed to be portable) by Connective means that Connectiva now uses this system and Linux Mandrake 7.3 will in the future.
I'd be greatly concerned about any product called `secure Telnet'. Simple because I've been telling clients to uninstall Telnet and ban the protocols use within their networks for quite some time. I'm sure many other admins have too. `Secure Telnet' would make things confusing.
Furthermore, that isn't what SSH does - Telnet is generally used (in sites I work at) to test SMTP and HTTP servers. SSH is used as a secure method of running shells, and graphical apps (Telnet should be avoided for the first and makes the second a headache). Telnet lacks file transfer mechanisms.
not everyone is going to be a security guru right off the bat, but until you actually are able to distinguish SSH from OpenSSH, then I'm not sure why it matters as you clearly haven't passed the minimum intelligence test to use either.
Um, you don't get it. The point of the protocol is they're not supposed to be limited to security professonals, but to people without seignificant security experience and need to remotely access shells, graphical apps, perform secure copies, anbd secure FTP etc. I'd hate if anything `secure' was limited to security professionals. Wouldn't you? As you said, there's a whole heap of Telnet servers around and people who think its okay to use them (printer and router companies that don't use SSH give me the shits. They aren't security professionals. SSH discourages that behaviour.
* secsh - secure remote sh - "kinda like running sh, but remotely"
* seccp - secure remote cp - "kinda like running cp, but remotely"
etc...
No, you are incorrect in suggesting that I'm saying the projects should merge.
I'm arguing for a consistent UI. Yes, competition is good, but first and formost is a consistently behaving UI (really - those that have standardized interfaces don't worry about competition, those who have competition worry about standrized UIs). You're a developer, and it sounds liek your workmates are - you seem to pick toolktis based on how easy theya re to develop for. But face the inevitable reality that end user spick apps based on quality rather than toolkit. There's no reason File -> Open should look different in KDE than GNOME. Yes, let them use different keyboard shortcuts. Bet let them use different keyboard shortcuts over every applciation, rather than 45% each.
It is indeed shiny. I can't wait this this become standard for the two main toolkits. KDE has the capability too.
Now all they need to do is work out a consistent UI between GTK and QT apps. Roll on the unified UI Style Guide!
The reason is may be because at small point sizes, with black text on a white background, the edge of a font might not actually have any black pixels.
If every app you run uses a different toolkit, then you're going to end up with an inconsistant desktop.
That's not the solution.
Non technical people pick their apps based on quality, not toolkit. I use Konqueror because its good, I use rp3 because its good. There's absolutely no reason why GTK and QT couldn't...
a) Use the same theming engine
b) Make sure a similar rnage of widgets is available on both platforms
c) Write a combined style guide similar to the MacOS Human Interface Guidelines for consistent application interfaces, so file -> open in Gimp looks the same as file -> open in Konq.
They already share the same drag and drop protocol, and soon they'll share MIME types.
Windows doesn't AA fonts until they get > 16 pts.
I've always wondered about the rationale behind this. The point of anti-aliased text, it seems, is that without it, jagged edges seem like characteristics of the actual glyph. I.e., its like walking through a forest at night - there are things which look like the path you're travelling, but aren't. When you're reading the text, your brain goes `the glyph seems to curve here', but it actually doesn't - you're just following the arrangement of the pixels.
At smaller point sizes, the size and frequency of these `false paths' increases. It would seem to me that small characters are more important to antialias than large characters. Try reading Verdana at size six antialiased and non-antialiased. AA is readable, otherwise isn't.
Anyone have any ideas? Microsoft typography generally know what they're doing, so I trust there's a rationale behind the decision. Or maybe its a technical limitation of their GDI...
You may be right - but the error most definitely also occurs when attempting to play CSS enabled films with non-CSS enabled Xine. Regardless, I'm checking my work with xine-devel...
I am aware the VOB Slashdot posted isn't encrypted. But we weren't talking about that just then - the poster I'm replying to was talking about how he tried using Xine to play DVDs.
I tried xine, and it has messages flying by about some demux error.
That's my fault - I'm the Xine documentation guy and I'm still hacking my SGML. The reason for the demux error is you live in the United States, where the legality of non MPAA licensed DVD players is undertain. Therefore, the version of xine you downloaded off sourceforge is not able to work with the content scrambling system used on most DVDs.
Those of us that live elsewhere in the world can download binary packages and source from non-US countries
I was recently having a discussion with a friend about railgun (a mutual acquaintance has one mounted on the side panels of his car, aimed backwards), and our plans to publish Railgun Living Magazine, a lifestyle magazine
for railgun enthusiasts and their families to enjoy their hobby, and learn about new and enjoyable uses for railguns, railgun accessories, and the like. We were originally going to call it `Better Railguns and Rails' but we thought it was a little derivative...
Railguns don't kill people. People kill people. People will railguns just enjoy it more.
All the best railing for you and your family this railing season!
I've seen some impressive improvements with the release of 2.4.0 and now 2.4.1
:-) ) benchmark current records for 2, 4, and 8 processor IA32 machines. Tux 2.0 is out, and its major feature is performance improvements :).
The least of which is khttpd, which (like IIS) handles static web requests in kernel space, and (unlike IIS) passes more security sensitive dynamic content requests to a userlevel server, such as Red Hat's Tux.
Tux 1.0 holds the Specweb (also used by IIS for five years until MS got their arse whopped by Tux
I'd be interested in a benchmark of the fastest webs ervers avliable on both platform - say, Tux versus Zeus (easily the best proprietary webserver) on Free BSD. As for Apache... well, the mods I use work with Tux, so this benchmark doesn't interest me. Or the web portion of it anyway.
Most people don't realize Windows uses twot oolkits
What are you jibba-jabbering aboot?
`Windows' meaning the average Windows users applications, not the Windows itself. I thought the meaning implied was obvious.
There's absolutely no reason why the user the GNOME and KDE projects are aiming for will pick all their applications based on toolkit. In fact, far more likely is that they will piock them based on quality.
Unfortunately, GTK and QT loook different. Consistency is one of the key ways of getting a user used to your system. There's no reason why a user should change the look and feel of half their application from one program, and the other half
with another.
Once that occurs, both projects should write a common set of human unterface guidelines and hash out a set of common controls, UI standards, etc. This may (will) mean modifications to the toolkits to support the samre variety of widgets.
The GNOME team should focus on making KDE applets integrate into their desktop. The KDE team should focus on making GNOME apps behave the same.
Both projects are doing fine. Unfortunately, both projects are enhancing the Linux desktop at the same time they are damaging it. MOst people don't realize Windows uses two toolkits - but over time, MFC and Borlands VCL have merged to look and feel acactly the same. Nobody undertands the value of a style guide when the first app is produced. When the second m thirs, and forth app is produced they do. Consistency is important
Unfortunately both teams seem to have no idea about this, from my investigations and discussion with various GNOME developers and one KDE developer. This is the biggest problem with GNOME and KDE.
AFAIK there are no efforts to fix it.
Maybe include a loud constant 20 kHz tone that's filetered out on "protected" hardware, thereby causing people listening to the raw source to get headaches...
That's exactly what I meant - I'm wasn't talking about the sameple rate, I was talking about introducing a noise at a pitch that would screw up most mp3 encoders....30khz was chosen because its beyong human hearing rage and beyond most mp3 encoders...
Speaking of AVI, do you know any way of converting MPEG to AVI in Linux?
I know of avi2divx and mpeg2divx, available here.
They use a similar WINE based interface and motion JPEG as an intemediary format, using a Morgan Multimedia demo codec.
anything that's coming out of the sound card itself is not going to be scrambled if you want anyone to be able to hear it through speakers.
My guess is a Macrovision type method - experiement until you find an inaudible signal that screws up recording. The format could sent lots of data beyond the range of human hearing. Would a large chunk of data beyond the extreme range (say 30khz?) of most mp3 encoders do? Badly written ones might choke.
Yes, that solution isn't perfect. Make another encoder. But copy protection isn't about making it impossible. its about making it difficult enough.
Or just start seeling consumers, new cooler `Windows Media Enabled!' speakers which only decrypt on the way to the speaker cones. Add some real features in there so people will but them.
Now you certainly aren't going to be watching Windows Media under linux...
Actually, the Windows Media Format is properly known as ASF - Advanced/Active Streaming Format. Microsoft claims the codec is open and documented - which is true, in an MS like way...i.e, without a licensing agreement and NDA, the only publicly avaliable documents descrive ASF version 2. This would bea good thing if 100% of the content found on the Internet wasn't in ASF 1 format, which is is.
Luckily some smart folk have reverse engineered and documented the ASF 1 format and are using it to make the avifile project (which currently plays DivXs and ASF using thin layer of Wine to implement the Win32 avifile API) actually implement its codecs natively.
This is a good thing. So help them out.
And don't make a player. We have enough. Port more codecs and fix the existing players.
However, eMachines was a product clearly trying to divert potential iMac purchasers to their eerily-similar product. In short, they used the look, then tried to convince people it was their own look. This is clearly wrong.
I don't know about the US, asides from it being, as Alan Cox puts it, `a small country between Canada and Mexico'.
Butin Australia, Apple sued a company that made a machine made out of darkish transparent plastic. A seperate monitor, shared like a regular PC just a little more rounded. and a seperate case which wasshaped like a bloody great big fish because `it looked like an imac'.
See it four youself and judge.
It's another thing to blatantly use the same thin lines that adorn all the windows (and the case of the iMac). Copy the Bondi blue exactly by looking up its Pantone color. Placing an apple in the exact same areas of the screen, with the piece cut out, just like the logo.
Agreed a hundred percent, and when Apple went through themes.org a few months back and removed the obvious clones, most of Slashdot supported them in their Action.
But this isn't fake Apple logos, exact lines. basically, its anything which looks like a gel-capped widget.
I wonder if someone did gell capped widgets in another color (green or orange) whether Apple would sue...
In other news, it has been reported Apple is taking up a suit against the entire apple industry
Ironically, when Apple first rose to prominence, theyw ere sued by Apple Records UK (the Beatles record company). Apple won, but a part of the agreement were forbidden to make musically related products.
Hence all system sounds in MacOS are not musica instruments. Except for one entitled `sosumi', or `so sue me'...
If I find out about a trade secret of yours & I havent signed a NDA with you, you have absolutely no right to stop me doing waht I want with your trade secrets, including selling it to the world & making millions out of it
I'm not disagreeing with you, but could you please explain why the MPAA versus (DeCSS team and distributor) focused so much (ie, was based) on trade secrets is lieu of this?
DDR most likely means Double Data Rate SDRAM, which is not the same things as a dual processor system.
Oops. I'm wrong. My fault. Moderate down accordingly.
Yes, this is genuine. I'm a committe member for Linux users of Victoria This was recently sent to out committee. I've removed the email addresses to prevent harassment of the people involved.
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:42:50 -0800
From: Holly Lindsey
To: "'XXX@luv.asn.au'"
Subject: Networking Heaven
Hello,
My name is Holly Lindsey and I am a recruiter with Microsoft in the US.
First, I want to apologize if it is inappropriate to approach your
organization. I understand lovers of Linux/Unix sometimes don't have much
love for Microsoft, but I'd like to get this information out to ALL the
serious software developers.
We will be conducting interviews in Sydney in March for the Windows Core
Networking team. I have a deep respect for users of Linux/Unix and know they
are sometimes the most hard core devoted programmers out there. We are
looking for the best and brightest to join our team to produce the next
generation of Windows. The Windows Core Networking team is responsible for
building the next generation networking for Windows workstation and server
platforms. This includes high performance network interfaces and transports,
networking services that provide security, load balancing, scalable
multicast capabilities and seamless wireless LAN experience, and
technologies to make networking self configuring, self diagnosing and self
healing. This group works with Windows Workstation (Consumer and Professional) and Server teams to ensure that these products are second to
none in networking offerings. For more information about this product see
their site at: http://microsoft.com/windows/default.asp.
If you would be interested in learning more about our opportunities in this
area, please don't hesitate to contact me directly at hollyl@microsoft.com
and check out our web site at http://www.microsoft.com/jobs/intl.
Sincerely,
Holly Lindsey
Associate Recruiter, International
Microsoft Corporation