Yes, we know the Diebold machines are running WinCE, the program is either VB or VC++ and the database is access.
Yet I can't help but wonder. If I gave my truck to a bunch of high school students, locked them in the gargage with it for a week, could they possibly break into it?
Get real, folks. My only question is to when DES gets out of that market. It is only like 2% of their business...
I'm sorry, I don't see any crime here. I don't even know why the police would get involved.
If someone wants to videotape something - regardless of copyright - is there a crime involved? I understand that there may be a tort or potential losses if the copyrighted material is distributed by someone not authorized. But is the simple act of taping a clip of a copyrighted item a crime?
I can't imagine ANYONE using Vista. I tried - honestly - to like it for at least a week. However, when you get screens like the one below, you just have to upgrade to Linux..
Haven't people been saying the footprint of Linux is a shitload less than Windows bloat.
Well, yes and no. If you want a stripped-down system running specific applications than you most certianly can run on less memory/diskspace.
However if you want to run full blown KDE/GNOME with all the goodies then you'd better pack in all the memory you can. My newest laptop, which single-boots to SUSE 10.2 has KDE and all the eye-candy. It runs with a Centrino Duo Core 2GHZ processor, 7200 RPM drive and 2G RAM.
I remember back in '93, calling for the end of the mainframe era, when some of my friends were taking COBOL classes at university. Look how wrong I am! Here we are, years later, and I'm still hooking into some mainframe system or another.
I have come to very much appreciate the high availability (24/7/365) and stability of the mainframe. In fact, when I get approached by vendors these days telling me I can support virtualization on high-end PCs, which cost $1M or more, I ask, "why not just by a Z-Series."
Let's not forget, too, the fact that the Federal Government is now trying to dictate what the State Governments are to do in their elections. Somehow that just seems wrong.
I'm all for transparency and accountability (we have paper receipts for our touch screen machines) but this just goes too far.
I've done my best (writing my congressman and senators) to derail this horrid bill. Unfortunately, like the amnesty bill, it appears to be a foregone conclusion.
Though it makes sense on the surface, the extra costs are - in my opinion - not worth the effort. I still don't see what the problem with old style ballots are. Also, we already do a 1% manual tally here in Los Angeles county. (With 5,000 precincts, that's not an easy task.) Add this new effort into the task of rolling out an election with Precinct Ballot Readers, TEV early voting systems, ballots in eight different languages, and an apathetic population who is sick of the PAC's driving everything and you have a total waste of money.
Well, after 9/11/01, I'd say everyone (except for the federal government) is paranoid. I'm subjected to a Livescan check every time I get promoted or transferred. They take my fingerprints and do a background check. I've had at least four in the past five years.
Sigh... ...yet another consipiricy theorist. You know, I feel proud that blackbox kicked me off their site and banned me because they couldn't handle what I was saying. Sadly, common sense doesn't seem to work with you people. Instead you resort to all caps and attempted insults. In any case...
And if you have any responsibility for the election process, you should be fired. Well, fortunately, I don't have any responsibility for elections. I just happen to know some of the people who do and am an advocate for ensuring every person gets their vote counted.
Guaranteeing that the number of votes cast matches the number of votes in the machine DOES NOT GUARANTEE THAT THE NUMBER OF VOTES CAST FOR EACH CANDIDATE MATCH THE NUMBER OF VOTES RECORDED!
Um, no. You are correct. However, that is what the aforementioned L&A tests are for. You insert a ballot, vote a known number of times and check the results. You then lather, rinse, repeat.
Putting yellow tape around a machine does not do a damn thing to guarantee that the software running in the machine is legitimate. Actually the tape is slightly black and metallic with serial numbers imprinted. Oh, and yes it does guarantee the software running is legit. I don't know if you've ever written software, so please bear with me. When you run software on a computer (which is what these machines are) you tell the computer explicitly what to do. The computer cannot think and only does what the software tells it. If you have run the logic and accuracy tests you know what the software does. The only way to make the software do something different is to add instructions or otherwise modify the program. The election conspiracy terrorists have shown us how to do this by gaining access to the flash drives on the machines. Putting the tape over the machines and tracking that tape prevents access.
Oh, and these machines do not have wifi.
That machine could have software in it that worked fine during any testing phase, then on election day took votes for Candidate A and instead recorded them for Candidate B, and you would never know - every single one of your 'checks' would pass, and you'd think nothing was wrong.
Using this same logic, you could say that any computer program written in the past fifty years would suddenly change course in the middle of running. Sorry not going to happen. A software program works the exact same way every time. You think banks would allow ATMs to dispense money if they weren't 100% certain the machines would work exactly as in testing? (Keep in mind many of these ATM machines are made by Diebold.)
You fail. Horribly. And it's people like you, who have no idea what you are doing, that are going to ruin the validity of elections for the rest of us.
Well, then. Next time tell us all how you REALLY feel. Don't hold back!
Seriously: The use of TEV's and the potential for some amount of vote fraud is extremely insignificant compared to the abuse of campaign finance laws, the effect of PAC's, the influence of the parties and the general apathy of the average voter. In my opinion - and this is why I think BBV kicked me off - election terrorists like you do more harm by spreading FUD than any single election official could do in their wildest dreams. Thanks to you and your ilk, we have been inundated with propaganda about how such-and-such official is stealing elections and how we need to be verifying every vote and how we need to be on top of everything. Well, thanks to my tax dollars, we are doing what we can. If you notice - the Federal Government has been reviewing fraud cases in several previous elections. They've found something like sixty out of several million potential cases. I'd say that shows how hard the various elections offices throughout the country are working on ensuring your vote is correctly counted and accounted for.
Actually we do this in LA. (I can't vouch for other counties.) Though we don't wholesale use TEVs for the general election (Imagine putting TEVs in 5,000 precincts.) we do have roughly 12 locations for early and same day voting using the TEV machines. Yes, they're supplied by Diebold and run the sucky WinCE OS.
In any case: As part of the process, each TEV has a printer. At the beginning of the voting period, the election official has to run a "zero-report" showing the machine has zero votes cast. The official has to sign off on the report paper that it is valid. This report printout is put in the same locked bag as other critical election materials. At the end of the voting period, the machines are put through a Logic and Accuracy test showing that the number of votes cast are equal to the interior counter after the zero report.
We further take 1% of the machines and run a hand count of the paper printouts to verify they match the number of votes cast inside the machines.
So far, there's been no issues. I've voted twice on these machines and somewhat like them.
Oh, and let's not forget the very expensive serialized security tape we put over all potential openings in the machines to prevent fraudulent access to the devices' guts.
Between these and the precinct ballot readers used to validate each voter's paper ballot before submission (for readability and over/undervotes) I'd say we've got a good handle on things.
We'd better - we've got an election every two weeks for the next few months and three major elections in '08 - February, June and November. We can't politically afford a screw up like Florida had......twice.
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Zo5bcBIDaccJ:w ww.keyboardmag.com/story.asp%3Fstorycode%3D17973+k eyboard+magazine+linux&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&cl ient=firefox-a...tinyurl to the rescue...
I'd like to run music software on my *nix systems - I have three - but have yet to be able to successfully get JACK to start a server. Somehow it seems that - if I'm going to run music software such as Rosegarden or Ardour - that I shouldn't have to setup a server to do it. Though I'm a huge Linux fan, I have found that Wintendo makes things easier with software such as Acid, on which I did this: http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/kai-groundforces .mp3 and this: http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/kai-giddyup.mp3 some years ago, with little to no effort.
Seriously, this is really funny. I mean the DoD doesn't know what coins are being used by our northern neighbor and are worried about spying from them? Go figure! Oh, I guess 'cause it is a poppy they're thinking some evil drug thing.
I find it actually funny that this is even really newsworthy. I'm sure the pointy-haired bosses at Quantas figured they'd save either time, money or staffing hours dealing with one vendor. Obviously they didn't want to go with MS in their server room, but they went from one *nix to another.
If you look a little further, you'll notice that the issue was with Financial operations. A few minutes with my good friend, google, turned up some tasty bits. For example here: http://www.fujitsu.com/global/casestudies/WWW2_cas estudy_Qantas.html
It says, "So when Qantas, Australia's largest airline, merged their international operation with a domestic airline and found themselves wrestling information among multiple data systems, something had to be done. The existing architecture was complex, slow, costly to operate and not very reliable. The response was IRIS, the Integrated Revenue Information Solution."
Guess what platform Fujitsu (the vendor) runs IRIS on...?
I seriously doubt the server people in charge of email for the White House would not be keeping both full and incremental backups in addition to major redundancy. After all, they'd want to CYA for actions they did take more than actions they didn't take.
Of course, this IS the government, so anything can happen!
Wow! After reading that the GPL v3 could constitute a legal risk by me, I'm happy I'm using SUSE and not , which isn't covered by the non-agression treaty setup between Microsoft and Novell.
Think about the droves of people and organizations who will now be joining us (Microsoft and Novell) in ensuring their users and customers are lawsuit-free by only using GPL v2 and hiding behind the MS agreeements.
Thank you ever so much, Steve!
Thank you Ron!
Seriously - I figure the GPL v3 is being worked over so much that - like v2 - whatever challenges will hold up just fine.
Slashdot Mirror
Yes, we know the Diebold machines are running WinCE, the program is either VB or VC++ and the database is access.
Yet I can't help but wonder. If I gave my truck to a bunch of high school students, locked them in the gargage with it for a week, could they possibly break into it?
Get real, folks. My only question is to when DES gets out of that market. It is only like 2% of their business...
I'm sorry, I don't see any crime here. I don't even know why the police would get involved.
If someone wants to videotape something - regardless of copyright - is there a crime involved? I understand that there may be a tort or potential losses if the copyrighted material is distributed by someone not authorized. But is the simple act of taping a clip of a copyrighted item a crime?
I would hope not.
I can't imagine ANYONE using Vista. I tried - honestly - to like it for at least a week. However, when you get screens like the one below, you just have to upgrade to Linux..
i sta_register2.jpg.jpg
http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/2007/20070519_v
Actually, the poster stated "great step forward" which was an obvious reference to China and NOT the USSR or NSDAP.
Remember: Revolution is just a t-shirt away!
Well, yes and no. If you want a stripped-down system running specific applications than you most certianly can run on less memory/diskspace.
However if you want to run full blown KDE/GNOME with all the goodies then you'd better pack in all the memory you can. My newest laptop, which single-boots to SUSE 10.2 has KDE and all the eye-candy. It runs with a Centrino Duo Core 2GHZ processor, 7200 RPM drive and 2G RAM.
I still don't think it is fast enough.
LOL!
:P
No, my father in law did.
Um, doesn't marriage do the same thing?
Just asking, because it would certainly save a lot of money if we just get these bacteria to marry.
I remember back in '93, calling for the end of the mainframe era, when some of my friends were taking COBOL classes at university. Look how wrong I am! Here we are, years later, and I'm still hooking into some mainframe system or another.
...nah.
I have come to very much appreciate the high availability (24/7/365) and stability of the mainframe. In fact, when I get approached by vendors these days telling me I can support virtualization on high-end PCs, which cost $1M or more, I ask, "why not just by a Z-Series."
Long Live the Mainframe!
Maybe someday, I'll learn COBOL...
Since they went with the bizarro agreement in the first place, I guess that makes them the ultimate second-tier vendor.
...i'm waiting...
Oh, I'm curious about these software patents. Can some one please show me a piece of software?
I'd like to hold it and examine it....
Excellent points!
Let's not forget, too, the fact that the Federal Government is now trying to dictate what the State Governments are to do in their elections. Somehow that just seems wrong.
I'm all for transparency and accountability (we have paper receipts for our touch screen machines) but this just goes too far.
I've done my best (writing my congressman and senators) to derail this horrid bill. Unfortunately, like the amnesty bill, it appears to be a foregone conclusion.
Though it makes sense on the surface, the extra costs are - in my opinion - not worth the effort. I still don't see what the problem with old style ballots are. Also, we already do a 1% manual tally here in Los Angeles county. (With 5,000 precincts, that's not an easy task.) Add this new effort into the task of rolling out an election with Precinct Ballot Readers, TEV early voting systems, ballots in eight different languages, and an apathetic population who is sick of the PAC's driving everything and you have a total waste of money.
</soapbox>
Hmm.
I wonder if they'll finally have a 64-bit version of flash I can run on my soon-to-be-standard 64-bit version of Vista...
http://donutmonster.com/stuff/NoFlash.jpg
Of course does this mean my 16-bit DOS apps will have to run in a virtual VDM?
Well, after 9/11/01, I'd say everyone (except for the federal government) is paranoid. I'm subjected to a Livescan check every time I get promoted or transferred. They take my fingerprints and do a background check. I've had at least four in the past five years.
Not a big deal.
Um, no. You are correct. However, that is what the aforementioned L&A tests are for. You insert a ballot, vote a known number of times and check the results. You then lather, rinse, repeat.
Putting yellow tape around a machine does not do a damn thing to guarantee that the software running in the machine is legitimate. Actually the tape is slightly black and metallic with serial numbers imprinted. Oh, and yes it does guarantee the software running is legit. I don't know if you've ever written software, so please bear with me. When you run software on a computer (which is what these machines are) you tell the computer explicitly what to do. The computer cannot think and only does what the software tells it. If you have run the logic and accuracy tests you know what the software does. The only way to make the software do something different is to add instructions or otherwise modify the program. The election conspiracy terrorists have shown us how to do this by gaining access to the flash drives on the machines. Putting the tape over the machines and tracking that tape prevents access.Oh, and these machines do not have wifi.
That machine could have software in it that worked fine during any testing phase, then on election day took votes for Candidate A and instead recorded them for Candidate B, and you would never know - every single one of your 'checks' would pass, and you'd think nothing was wrong.Using this same logic, you could say that any computer program written in the past fifty years would suddenly change course in the middle of running. Sorry not going to happen. A software program works the exact same way every time. You think banks would allow ATMs to dispense money if they weren't 100% certain the machines would work exactly as in testing? (Keep in mind many of these ATM machines are made by Diebold.)
You fail. Horribly. And it's people like you, who have no idea what you are doing, that are going to ruin the validity of elections for the rest of us.Well, then. Next time tell us all how you REALLY feel. Don't hold back!
Seriously: The use of TEV's and the potential for some amount of vote fraud is extremely insignificant compared to the abuse of campaign finance laws, the effect of PAC's, the influence of the parties and the general apathy of the average voter. In my opinion - and this is why I think BBV kicked me off - election terrorists like you do more harm by spreading FUD than any single election official could do in their wildest dreams. Thanks to you and your ilk, we have been inundated with propaganda about how such-and-such official is stealing elections and how we need to be verifying every vote and how we need to be on top of everything. Well, thanks to my tax dollars, we are doing what we can. If you notice - the Federal Government has been reviewing fraud cases in several previous elections. They've found something like sixty out of several million potential cases. I'd say that shows how hard the various elections offices throughout the country are working on ensuring your vote is correctly counted and accounted for.
Actually we do this in LA. (I can't vouch for other counties.) Though we don't wholesale use TEVs for the general election (Imagine putting TEVs in 5,000 precincts.) we do have roughly 12 locations for early and same day voting using the TEV machines. Yes, they're supplied by Diebold and run the sucky WinCE OS.
...twice.
In any case: As part of the process, each TEV has a printer. At the beginning of the voting period, the election official has to run a "zero-report" showing the machine has zero votes cast. The official has to sign off on the report paper that it is valid. This report printout is put in the same locked bag as other critical election materials. At the end of the voting period, the machines are put through a Logic and Accuracy test showing that the number of votes cast are equal to the interior counter after the zero report.
We further take 1% of the machines and run a hand count of the paper printouts to verify they match the number of votes cast inside the machines.
So far, there's been no issues. I've voted twice on these machines and somewhat like them.
Oh, and let's not forget the very expensive serialized security tape we put over all potential openings in the machines to prevent fraudulent access to the devices' guts.
Between these and the precinct ballot readers used to validate each voter's paper ballot before submission (for readability and over/undervotes) I'd say we've got a good handle on things.
We'd better - we've got an election every two weeks for the next few months and three major elections in '08 - February, June and November. We can't politically afford a screw up like Florida had...
I guess I don't know JACK.
In my systems - all running SUSE 10.1 or 10.2 - the JACK server is required. I'll try one of the pre-setup systems.Google to the rescue...
w ww.keyboardmag.com/story.asp%3Fstorycode%3D17973+k eyboard+magazine+linux&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&cl ient=firefox-a ...tinyurl to the rescue...
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Zo5bcBIDaccJ:
http://tinyurl.com/2n65uq
I'd like to run music software on my *nix systems - I have three - but have yet to be able to successfully get JACK to start a server. Somehow it seems that - if I'm going to run music software such as Rosegarden or Ardour - that I shouldn't have to setup a server to do it. Though I'm a huge Linux fan, I have found that Wintendo makes things easier with software such as Acid, on which I did this: http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/kai-groundforces .mp3 and this: http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/kai-giddyup.mp3 some years ago, with little to no effort.
Interesting article, none the less.
Didn't we invade them already?
j/k
Seriously, this is really funny. I mean the DoD doesn't know what coins are being used by our northern neighbor and are worried about spying from them? Go figure! Oh, I guess 'cause it is a poppy they're thinking some evil drug thing.
...my browser keeps asking me to allow or deny arstechnica...
I find it actually funny that this is even really newsworthy. I'm sure the pointy-haired bosses at Quantas figured they'd save either time, money or staffing hours dealing with one vendor. Obviously they didn't want to go with MS in their server room, but they went from one *nix to another.
s estudy_Qantas.html
If you look a little further, you'll notice that the issue was with Financial operations. A few minutes with my good friend, google, turned up some tasty bits. For example here: http://www.fujitsu.com/global/casestudies/WWW2_ca
It says, "So when Qantas, Australia's largest airline, merged their international operation with a domestic airline and found themselves wrestling information among multiple data systems, something had to be done. The existing architecture was complex, slow, costly to operate and not very reliable. The response was IRIS, the Integrated Revenue Information Solution."
Guess what platform Fujitsu (the vendor) runs IRIS on...?
I can see it now at the Didcot Science Centre (English spelling):
Manager: How long until we can get the shields operating?
Engineer: Eight Years
Manager: Eight Years?
Engineer: Yes, but you don't have eight years, so I'll do it in two.
Manager: Do you always multiply your design estimates by a factor of four?
Engineer: I have a reputation to maintain, sir.
Damn! You beat me to it!!!!
I seriously doubt the server people in charge of email for the White House would not be keeping both full and incremental backups in addition to major redundancy. After all, they'd want to CYA for actions they did take more than actions they didn't take. Of course, this IS the government, so anything can happen!
Wow! After reading that the GPL v3 could constitute a legal risk by me, I'm happy I'm using SUSE and not , which isn't covered by the non-agression treaty setup between Microsoft and Novell.
Think about the droves of people and organizations who will now be joining us (Microsoft and Novell) in ensuring their users and customers are lawsuit-free by only using GPL v2 and hiding behind the MS agreeements.
Thank you ever so much, Steve!
Thank you Ron!
Seriously - I figure the GPL v3 is being worked over so much that - like v2 - whatever challenges will hold up just fine.