In academics: 43.9% of statistic are made up. In business: 72.3%, although banks were slightly higher than average. In politics: 99.991%, although it's possible the.009% were a sampling error.
I do run a business, but I don't do accounting. I hire accountants because I know things are complex--and I have been audited.
But I do know the law. If you talked to those in jail, or read through their cases, you would find they are materially different that what Daschle did.
I'm not making up Civil vs. Criminal law. Or, to quote on source "the difference between tax law and the IRS rules and regulations, the monetary and non-monetary penalties imposed for understatements of tax liability, and finally provide a means for preventing and defending understatements of tax liability"
Daschle violated rules and regulations. If hadn't paid, he would have violated the law. If he'd lied about having the car and driver, he would have violated the law. If he made a math error, its rules and regulations and a chance to pay.
Notice that there are several monitary penalties for violations, as well as a few that are misdemeanors. The financial penalties are civil matters, the others criminal.
I think the problem is that it is so complicated it predicts everything that can or could happen. So the math is interesting to apply after the fact--but you can't extract the real from the possible results through the math alone.
Having to many points is the same as having none at all. And that's what String Theory in its current form seems to be.
Odd, if I keep it to one point; you argue the bigger picture. If I argue bigger picture, you switch to one point.
But ignoring the larger points, I said:
If I said, "I didn't eat lunch," would you assume that meant I skipped desert, or that I
hadn't eaten anything at all for lunch?
You said "Daschle didn't pay taxes," I pointed out all the taxes he did pay to show that phrase was untrue.
If I say, "You didn't sleep with women," and you say "I'm married with three kids" I can't back and claim I never said you didn't have sex with any women, just not all women.
I'm sorry you have trouble writing what you mean to say.
Malkin is a hyper-partisan, extremely fact-challenged source. Using her as a source tends to discredit the argument, especially the argument that you are really a liberal. It's like claiming you are a capitalist, then quoting Marx's arguments while supporting state ownership. It tends to undermine the claim.
His point is clear, but not well thought out. Or, at least, the example that he gives are extremely biased and don't prove what he thinks they prove. Comparing people that withdraw from nomination to people who resign in disgrace is disingenuous; and some were only rumored to be in consideration. Also, saying that if someone may have suspicious practices (according to a blog) is the same as a criminal and should be kept from government doesn't seem to hold water.
And the fact that he still hold grudges against a president three terms out of office, and holds onto discredited Whitewater theories and mafia links to the Clintons, again seems to indicate a desire to attack Obama, not bring balance to the coverage.
And, in this post, the conflation of Civil and Criminal offenses is either mistaken or dishonestly undertaken. Being guilty of poor judgement does not make one a criminal.
I didn't add a word, you are somehow expecting your reader to add the word "all" or "some" to the quote "Daschle didn't pay taxes."
If I said, "I didn't eat lunch," would you assume that meant I skipped desert, or that I hadn't eaten anything at all for lunch?
You kept saying you dealt in facts, yet you said people resigned who never had jobs; and in Gupta case were never even nominated. You used phrases like "didn't pay taxes" because you know it made it sound worse than it actually did.
And when I quote you, you say I need to argue with what you actually said. To remind you, you said "Please enlighten me how the parent list is untrue in any facet."
I chose Daschle example because it seemed easy. I could just as easily attacked the "potentially-suspicious" quote. As if having a partisan blogger attack you was reason you should be kept from government. Or Whitewater, or any number of other aspersions masquerading as facts.
Whatever your politics, you argue like a right winger. You assume your opinions are facts, that google-searches and anecdotes are the same as research and that any challenging of your ideas is a dishonest attack.
We face so many problems economically, socially, and politically that I find it odd that even Slashdotters respond to this so passionately. You regret you Obama vote because of this?
I mean, the RIAA is ripping off both artists and consumers, yes. But I'd dare say they are doing less damage than our opponents in Afghanistan, or the bankers blackmailing the government for money to cover their own bad bets.
Even when it comes to tech issues, it seems like infrastructure and access and a host of other issues are more important than the RIAAs bad behavior. Would you really just vote for anyone that doesn't hate the RIAA, despite any other issues?
Shouldn't we wait and see what these lawyers do in the administration?
I guess this community is what it is, but there sure seems to be an odd and misplaced anger over this.
I'm not turning away, as far as I know. If these lawyers do evil, I'll complain, but I don't see how hiring people who's firm worked for the RIAA automatically means Obama has done "Crap."
And I don't think he can fix the economy, shut down Guantanamo, win the war on terror, and buy me a pony in only three months. So far he seems to be working hard on everything but the Pony.
Apparently you ignorance goes deeper than tax law. Civil law and criminal law are separate branches of the law. People who violate civil laws aren't usually considered criminals.
You do not violate the law when you fail an audit. You only violate it when you don't pay what the audit showed you owe.
You are not, for example, a criminal for getting a speeding ticked. You owe a fine. If you pay the fine, nothing happens. It's only if you failed to pay the fine you might face jail time, and that would be extremely rare.
This from your post above. Your exact words. You repeated it in multiple other posts. So I didn't say that, you did.
If you said, he didn't pay all his taxes; even that would be only part right. You assume it was criminal, not negligent, but you have no facts to back you up.
The best would be to say, he didn't pay all his taxes until the mistake was pointed out to him--after which he did. Because he has in fact paid the IRS back.
It covers all of that as well. Remember, Star was investigating Whitewater, Vince Foster, Travelgate, ect.
Despite hundreds of millions of dollars spent, he nailed Bill for being a lier. He was forced to admit the rest did not have evidence of any wrongdoing by the Clintons.
"Independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr plans to tell Congress today that President Clinton misused 'the machinery of government' and 'thwarted the search for truth' in a wide-ranging scheme to illegally interfere with Paula Jones's sexual harassment lawsuit and Starr's subsequent criminal investigation," the Washington Post reported in 1998.
"But in a 58-page prepared statement to be delivered at the opening of impeachment hearings, Starr acknowledges for the first time that he has not found enough evidence to accuse the president of criminal conduct in the Whitewater financial venture that generated his appointment in 1994 or in a host of other allegations he has investigated since then."
"At some point Obama and his supporters will have to stop using Bush to justify their own poor decisions. "
You know, I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. But until these gentlemen do something wrong, I'm not willing to throw the Obama administration away just because he hired someone that once worked for the RIAA.
Also, I'll stop mentioning Bush when Republican's stop mentioning Clinton. It's been 8 years and they still bring him up. I think Dems deserve at least another month to bash Bush.
When you get audited, and they find mistakes, they give you a chance to pay what you should have paid. If you don't, they then take you to civil court, and get a court order to pay the owed amount, plus interest and penalties.
If you ignore the court order, you go to jail. Or, if they can prove you knowingly lied to them in any of the above proceedings.
Neither happened in Dashcle's case, or in thousands of like them that happen each year. Show me one case where someone is in jail for failure to list income on their taxes. I'll wait...
(And it's quoting Micelle Malkin while claiming to be a Liberal that makes you a loon.)
Many of the policies passed in the Clinton years, with the help of a Republican congress, led us to our current economic meltdown. Obsessing about Whitewater distracts from looking at actual policies and outcomes. One reason I supported Obama was that he wasn't Hillary Clinton--although again, I dislike her policies.
Obama may yet prove a failure and dissapointment. But 3 months in I'm not willing to declare him one on the basis of withdrawn nominations--or even RIAA hires.
Unlike my argumentative posts, this is an honest question to those people arguing both sides are exactly the same. Is the answer simply to stop trying to make either side better? Vote not for the lesser of two evils, but just don't vote or vote 3rd party so you maintain the right to complain?
I must admit, I'd rather argue passionately. Then again, I guess I'd also like to argue policy and outcomes--not who people used to work for before they got hired, as if the RIAA's misdeeds were the worst threat the US or world is facing right now.
Verify that on claim for me, and I'll use all my karma to uprate you. Show me that Daschle didn't pay any taxes, because that is what the sentence you typed says.
The "Fact" is, Dashcle paid income-tax, sales-tax, property-taxes, and probably a few others. He did make a mistake in not listing a car and driver as income. A mistake that cost him a job.
But it didn't make him resign; he never had the job. It didn't make him a criminal; he re-paid the IRS and it was a civil, not a criminal, matter.
It is also important to draw a distinction between a fact, and a half-correct pseudo-fact spun for political purposes..
You could at least argue honestly. From you posts above.
"I'm a liberal by political beliefs"
" * Gary Locke: potentially-suspicious fund-raising history [michellemalkin.com]"
Liberals would not link to Malkin. Or run Fake-Barak web sites that make solely conservative points. At least be honest about you beliefs.
You also do the right wing blogger trick of using short, misleading arguments like "Daschle didn't pay taxes," Of course he paid taxes, he did fail to accurately list a car and driver as taxable income--a far different item. Which he then paid. Just like withdrawing doesn't equal resigned civil law != criminal law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_George_W._Bush
Compare and contrast. The conspiracy part is believing there is anything nefarious or different with Clinton. Instead of Google, try reading deeply into politics and maybe you will come up with something worth listening too.
The fact you still think Whitewater was anything but a right-wing obsession proves you haven't.
Or you wouldn't post shit like this. You claim to be liberal but believe Clinton/Mafia conspiracy theories and hate welfare? A d you think Bush's medicare scam was a benefit?
Yeah, I believe that.
Slashdot Mirror
So, if you don't stop you'll go double blind?
That's worse than I thought.
In academics: 43.9% of statistic are made up. .009% were a sampling error.
In business: 72.3%, although banks were slightly higher than average.
In politics: 99.991%, although it's possible the
Now if I could just make this a pretty graph.
I do run a business, but I don't do accounting. I hire accountants because I know things are complex--and I have been audited.
But I do know the law. If you talked to those in jail, or read through their cases, you would find they are materially different that what Daschle did.
I'm not making up Civil vs. Criminal law. Or, to quote on source "the difference between tax law and the IRS rules and regulations, the monetary and non-monetary penalties imposed for understatements of tax liability, and finally provide a means for preventing and defending understatements of tax liability"
Daschle violated rules and regulations. If hadn't paid, he would have violated the law. If he'd lied about having the car and driver, he would have violated the law. If he made a math error, its rules and regulations and a chance to pay.
For an example go here:
http://www.twc.state.tx.us/ui/tax/manuals/law/law_ch5_0.html#5.2.1.1
Notice that there are several monitary penalties for violations, as well as a few that are misdemeanors. The financial penalties are civil matters, the others criminal.
Or Silly String.
I think the problem is that it is so complicated it predicts everything that can or could happen. So the math is interesting to apply after the fact--but you can't extract the real from the possible results through the math alone.
Having to many points is the same as having none at all. And that's what String Theory in its current form seems to be.
Odd, if I keep it to one point; you argue the bigger picture. If I argue bigger picture, you switch to one point.
But ignoring the larger points, I said:
If I said, "I didn't eat lunch," would you assume that meant I skipped desert, or that I
hadn't eaten anything at all for lunch?
You said "Daschle didn't pay taxes," I pointed out all the taxes he did pay to show that phrase was untrue.
If I say, "You didn't sleep with women," and you say "I'm married with three kids" I can't back and claim I never said you didn't have sex with any women, just not all women.
I'm sorry you have trouble writing what you mean to say.
And I am home. And I'm kind of having fun.
Malkin is a hyper-partisan, extremely fact-challenged source. Using her as a source tends to discredit the argument, especially the argument that you are really a liberal. It's like claiming you are a capitalist, then quoting Marx's arguments while supporting state ownership. It tends to undermine the claim.
His point is clear, but not well thought out. Or, at least, the example that he gives are extremely biased and don't prove what he thinks they prove. Comparing people that withdraw from nomination to people who resign in disgrace is disingenuous; and some were only rumored to be in consideration. Also, saying that if someone may have suspicious practices (according to a blog) is the same as a criminal and should be kept from government doesn't seem to hold water.
And the fact that he still hold grudges against a president three terms out of office, and holds onto discredited Whitewater theories and mafia links to the Clintons, again seems to indicate a desire to attack Obama, not bring balance to the coverage.
And, in this post, the conflation of Civil and Criminal offenses is either mistaken or dishonestly undertaken. Being guilty of poor judgement does not make one a criminal.
I didn't add a word, you are somehow expecting your reader to add the word "all" or "some" to the quote "Daschle didn't pay taxes."
If I said, "I didn't eat lunch," would you assume that meant I skipped desert, or that I hadn't eaten anything at all for lunch?
You kept saying you dealt in facts, yet you said people resigned who never had jobs; and in Gupta case were never even nominated. You used phrases like "didn't pay taxes" because you know it made it sound worse than it actually did.
And when I quote you, you say I need to argue with what you actually said. To remind you, you said "Please enlighten me how the parent list is untrue in any facet."
I chose Daschle example because it seemed easy. I could just as easily attacked the "potentially-suspicious" quote. As if having a partisan blogger attack you was reason you should be kept from government. Or Whitewater, or any number of other aspersions masquerading as facts.
Whatever your politics, you argue like a right winger. You assume your opinions are facts, that google-searches and anecdotes are the same as research and that any challenging of your ideas is a dishonest attack.
We face so many problems economically, socially, and politically that I find it odd that even Slashdotters respond to this so passionately. You regret you Obama vote because of this?
I mean, the RIAA is ripping off both artists and consumers, yes. But I'd dare say they are doing less damage than our opponents in Afghanistan, or the bankers blackmailing the government for money to cover their own bad bets.
Even when it comes to tech issues, it seems like infrastructure and access and a host of other issues are more important than the RIAAs bad behavior. Would you really just vote for anyone that doesn't hate the RIAA, despite any other issues?
Shouldn't we wait and see what these lawyers do in the administration?
I guess this community is what it is, but there sure seems to be an odd and misplaced anger over this.
I'm not turning away, as far as I know. If these lawyers do evil, I'll complain, but I don't see how hiring people who's firm worked for the RIAA automatically means Obama has done "Crap."
And I don't think he can fix the economy, shut down Guantanamo, win the war on terror, and buy me a pony in only three months. So far he seems to be working hard on everything but the Pony.
"I did a Google search and took the first result to quickly compile a list."
Did you meant to attach a list, because it isn't there that I can see.
Apparently you ignorance goes deeper than tax law. Civil law and criminal law are separate branches of the law. People who violate civil laws aren't usually considered criminals.
You do not violate the law when you fail an audit. You only violate it when you don't pay what the audit showed you owe.
You are not, for example, a criminal for getting a speeding ticked. You owe a fine. If you pay the fine, nothing happens. It's only if you failed to pay the fine you might face jail time, and that would be extremely rare.
Just so you know, my father is a tax lawyer.
"For instance, Daschle didn't pay taxes"
This from your post above. Your exact words. You repeated it in multiple other posts. So I didn't say that, you did.
If you said, he didn't pay all his taxes; even that would be only part right. You assume it was criminal, not negligent, but you have no facts to back you up.
The best would be to say, he didn't pay all his taxes until the mistake was pointed out to him--after which he did. Because he has in fact paid the IRS back.
It covers all of that as well. Remember, Star was investigating Whitewater, Vince Foster, Travelgate, ect.
Despite hundreds of millions of dollars spent, he nailed Bill for being a lier. He was forced to admit the rest did not have evidence of any wrongdoing by the Clintons.
You could also try this rundown: http://www.beachwoodreporter.com/politics/obama_and_the_clinton_scandals.php
"Independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr plans to tell Congress today that President Clinton misused 'the machinery of government' and 'thwarted the search for truth' in a wide-ranging scheme to illegally interfere with Paula Jones's sexual harassment lawsuit and Starr's subsequent criminal investigation," the Washington Post reported in 1998.
"But in a 58-page prepared statement to be delivered at the opening of impeachment hearings, Starr acknowledges for the first time that he has not found enough evidence to accuse the president of criminal conduct in the Whitewater financial venture that generated his appointment in 1994 or in a host of other allegations he has investigated since then."
Read http://books.google.com/books?id=DPNYQBwQ7uoC From more debunking.
"At some point Obama and his supporters will have to stop using Bush to justify their own poor decisions. "
You know, I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. But until these gentlemen do something wrong, I'm not willing to throw the Obama administration away just because he hired someone that once worked for the RIAA.
Also, I'll stop mentioning Bush when Republican's stop mentioning Clinton. It's been 8 years and they still bring him up. I think Dems deserve at least another month to bash Bush.
When you get audited, and they find mistakes, they give you a chance to pay what you should have paid. If you don't, they then take you to civil court, and get a court order to pay the owed amount, plus interest and penalties.
If you ignore the court order, you go to jail. Or, if they can prove you knowingly lied to them in any of the above proceedings.
Neither happened in Dashcle's case, or in thousands of like them that happen each year. Show me one case where someone is in jail for failure to list income on their taxes. I'll wait...
(And it's quoting Micelle Malkin while claiming to be a Liberal that makes you a loon.)
Many of the policies passed in the Clinton years, with the help of a Republican congress, led us to our current economic meltdown. Obsessing about Whitewater distracts from looking at actual policies and outcomes. One reason I supported Obama was that he wasn't Hillary Clinton--although again, I dislike her policies.
Obama may yet prove a failure and dissapointment. But 3 months in I'm not willing to declare him one on the basis of withdrawn nominations--or even RIAA hires.
I'll take Obamas record over Bush's.
http://thedcshuffle.com/2009/02/11/complete-bush-appointee-resignation-scorecard/
Unlike my argumentative posts, this is an honest question to those people arguing both sides are exactly the same. Is the answer simply to stop trying to make either side better? Vote not for the lesser of two evils, but just don't vote or vote 3rd party so you maintain the right to complain?
I must admit, I'd rather argue passionately. Then again, I guess I'd also like to argue policy and outcomes--not who people used to work for before they got hired, as if the RIAA's misdeeds were the worst threat the US or world is facing right now.
Verify that on claim for me, and I'll use all my karma to uprate you. Show me that Daschle didn't pay any taxes, because that is what the sentence you typed says.
The "Fact" is, Dashcle paid income-tax, sales-tax, property-taxes, and probably a few others. He did make a mistake in not listing a car and driver as income. A mistake that cost him a job.
But it didn't make him resign; he never had the job. It didn't make him a criminal; he re-paid the IRS and it was a civil, not a criminal, matter.
It is also important to draw a distinction between a fact, and a half-correct pseudo-fact spun for political purposes..
If you had said said, here is a list of nominees withdrawn, I would not think you a troll. But you said "Obama appointees who had to resign"
Non of them were confirmed, non of them could therefore have resigned. Change that, you are at least an honest right-winger.
You could at least argue honestly. From you posts above.
"I'm a liberal by political beliefs"
" * Gary Locke: potentially-suspicious fund-raising history [michellemalkin.com]"
Liberals would not link to Malkin. Or run Fake-Barak web sites that make solely conservative points. At least be honest about you beliefs.
You also do the right wing blogger trick of using short, misleading arguments like "Daschle didn't pay taxes," Of course he paid taxes, he did fail to accurately list a car and driver as taxable income--a far different item. Which he then paid. Just like withdrawing doesn't equal resigned civil law != criminal law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_George_W._Bush Compare and contrast. The conspiracy part is believing there is anything nefarious or different with Clinton. Instead of Google, try reading deeply into politics and maybe you will come up with something worth listening too. The fact you still think Whitewater was anything but a right-wing obsession proves you haven't.
Someone should untroll this. The parent was a troll; spouting conspiracy non-sense. This was just a bit of snark.
Or you wouldn't post shit like this. You claim to be liberal but believe Clinton/Mafia conspiracy theories and hate welfare? A d you think Bush's medicare scam was a benefit? Yeah, I believe that.