Will the cost of the power adapters stay the same? I am always annoyed by statistics citing energy savings for the consumer without considering the full picture. It's dishonest and unnecessary.
Um, yes there is a difference. If Joe buys a $30k car with a $10k subsidy, that has very different behavioral influence than if the subsidy went to Joe's dealer and is spread across all of the dealer's costs and may or may not shot up in any consumer based pricing. And the latter is exactly what tax credits and other shit do. So, no, you are not correct.
Quite bizarre. I think there is a valid Twitter hypocrisy point here, but TFS didn't focus on that angle. Instead it's all about needing to shut down Trump to be fair. Seems pretty hypocritical of the slashdot community too, or at least submitter
Generator is much cheaper option than batteries. In hindsight I wonder whether I should have done that instead. One installer I talked to tried to talk me into that direction. I ended up paying about 2.5x more (not counting the cost of the propane) for a battery solution, and the only thing I can really point to as an incremental benefit is that they get recharged for free. But I bet if I factored in the replacement cycle, I wouldn't like the results.
Refrigerators and stoves are not a problem. Air conditioning and heat is a problem. Your solution would need to time share when AC/heat could kick on within pool participants. And it only matters for about 4 hours each day when solar generation is large enough, unless you use a battery or use the grid as a battery.
I'm pretty sure you just agreed with my point. I didn't say anyone should expect to sell excess power at a higher than wholesale rate. What I said was that you are wrong when you said that nobody is harmed by this if they sized their system for their own usage. As you note, you must use the grid as your battery, or you must have batteries yourself. If you are using the grid as your battery, then lowering the sell price harms them.
No, it is misleading, and your response doesn't address my point. If I subsidize the purchase of a car by paying $10k of it, that is different than giving $10k to a car manufacturer or care sales lot. It's not a question of the form of the $10k.
oops i managed to mix multiple thoughts in my point about it not being 1 day of peak usage. What I intended to say was that in the winter where you can have no sun for multiple days, you need to have enough battery storage to support that peak usage for that number of days.
Maybe a bmw 7-series or something. Going fully off grid without dramatically reducing your energy usage will cost you 75k-100k. Perhaps more depending on where you live and how much energy you use at different times of the year. The problem with fully off grid is that you have to build the entire system for peak usage, which you may only need for a couple weeks in the summer or winter. And that's not 1 day of peak usage, because the highest usage times of the year are also not very efficient for PV (peak winter=little sun, peak summer=high temp).
Of course nobody does that because it's insanely expensive. It's cheaper to convert all lighting to DC LED, replace all appliances to DC and/or their most efficient models, run fans instead of A/C, convert heating systems to gas/propane/wood/pellet, etc. etc. etc.
They are already very tough. Remember they were built to power satellites where any damage basically bricks the entire satellite as maintenance of any kind is not feasible
You are overlooking a number of things. What you are saying is true only if you burn your excess every night. For about 4 months, I am selling a ton to the grid because it's winter and my heat and water heater are propane. I would need a ton of batteries to store all of that for the summer when I go net buy (by a lot)
Also systems are not set up like you imply. Technically it is possible to configure charge controllers to only charge with power from your panels, but I don't know anyone with a grid tied system who does this. The batteries are kept charged with power, and that power comes from the PV if it's generating enough or the grid if the PV isn't
Th battery life is measured in cycles. Your plan cycles the battery every day. Effectively you will be treating your batteries like you are completely off grid. This is going to be expensive and I don't know why you wouldn't just sell the excess, even if you think the rate is unfair, unless it's just out of principle
You are right in direction but I think off in magnitude. Battery systems are getting better but we have s long long way to go before people can operate their normal lives off grid at a price per kWh at or below the utility company. And it is inevitable but I think we are 20+ years out.
I don't understand your suggestion. The pool will over-generate by a lot for peak hours (for solar generation not usage) and under-generate by a lot during off-peak. I don't see how this solves anything except for maybe AC units kicking on at different intervals.
On-paper life of inverters is 10-12 years. That's the weak point when it comes to maintenance, unless you have hail or wind damage or some other accident
I'm sorry but I have a really hard time believing your system has paid for itself in a few years. What kind of system is this? And what is your secret?
Congrats. You have joined the very large group of people in this thread who have no idea what they are talking about. You cannot size solar to meet your needs irrespective of net metering because your usage curve looks very different, sometimes almost exactly opposite, of the solar generation curve. You must have a battery of some sort. For most people that is the grid itself with net metering. So, no, this will hurt everyone, including people who sized solar for their needs only.
Your statement about common inverters is very misleading. Yes the inverters avoid feeding the grid when the grid is down for worker safety. But they do this by shutting off. Your home does not get solar power when the grid is down if you have a direct grid tie system.
The problem with that is someone must decide what is in the public's interest. If left alone the market can accommodate a diverse set of opinions, viewpoints, value judgments, etc. Your suggestion means only a limited set of opinions, viewpoints, value judgments, etc. are represented in cases where someone decides it's in the public's interest. That works as long as nobody disagrees with that decision. But if someone does, then you have created a situation where wealth is destroyed.
That is a terrible analogy. There are many alternatives to wired high speed internet, including cell, satellite, dial up, etc. Wired broadband is not a necessity. In contrast the alternatives to wired electricity delivery are few and partial, to the extent that I would argue they are not alternatives in the minds of most market participants.
Slashdot Mirror
* Don't include suicides
* Don't include justifiable homicides
* Use the same, contiguous years for cross state comparisons
Will the cost of the power adapters stay the same? I am always annoyed by statistics citing energy savings for the consumer without considering the full picture. It's dishonest and unnecessary.
Um, yes there is a difference. If Joe buys a $30k car with a $10k subsidy, that has very different behavioral influence than if the subsidy went to Joe's dealer and is spread across all of the dealer's costs and may or may not shot up in any consumer based pricing. And the latter is exactly what tax credits and other shit do. So, no, you are not correct.
Quite bizarre. I think there is a valid Twitter hypocrisy point here, but TFS didn't focus on that angle. Instead it's all about needing to shut down Trump to be fair. Seems pretty hypocritical of the slashdot community too, or at least submitter
Generator is much cheaper option than batteries. In hindsight I wonder whether I should have done that instead. One installer I talked to tried to talk me into that direction. I ended up paying about 2.5x more (not counting the cost of the propane) for a battery solution, and the only thing I can really point to as an incremental benefit is that they get recharged for free. But I bet if I factored in the replacement cycle, I wouldn't like the results.
Refrigerators and stoves are not a problem. Air conditioning and heat is a problem. Your solution would need to time share when AC/heat could kick on within pool participants. And it only matters for about 4 hours each day when solar generation is large enough, unless you use a battery or use the grid as a battery.
I'm pretty sure you just agreed with my point. I didn't say anyone should expect to sell excess power at a higher than wholesale rate. What I said was that you are wrong when you said that nobody is harmed by this if they sized their system for their own usage. As you note, you must use the grid as your battery, or you must have batteries yourself. If you are using the grid as your battery, then lowering the sell price harms them.
No, it is misleading, and your response doesn't address my point. If I subsidize the purchase of a car by paying $10k of it, that is different than giving $10k to a car manufacturer or care sales lot. It's not a question of the form of the $10k.
oops i managed to mix multiple thoughts in my point about it not being 1 day of peak usage. What I intended to say was that in the winter where you can have no sun for multiple days, you need to have enough battery storage to support that peak usage for that number of days.
Maybe a bmw 7-series or something. Going fully off grid without dramatically reducing your energy usage will cost you 75k-100k. Perhaps more depending on where you live and how much energy you use at different times of the year. The problem with fully off grid is that you have to build the entire system for peak usage, which you may only need for a couple weeks in the summer or winter. And that's not 1 day of peak usage, because the highest usage times of the year are also not very efficient for PV (peak winter=little sun, peak summer=high temp).
Of course nobody does that because it's insanely expensive. It's cheaper to convert all lighting to DC LED, replace all appliances to DC and/or their most efficient models, run fans instead of A/C, convert heating systems to gas/propane/wood/pellet, etc. etc. etc.
I agree with you. It's pretty surprising. It may be for good reason and it may be an outdated regulation.
Decent idea. Possibly politically risky ("these kids need books and Mayor Dingbat is blowing the money on Chinese solar panels")
They are already very tough. Remember they were built to power satellites where any damage basically bricks the entire satellite as maintenance of any kind is not feasible
You are overlooking a number of things. What you are saying is true only if you burn your excess every night. For about 4 months, I am selling a ton to the grid because it's winter and my heat and water heater are propane. I would need a ton of batteries to store all of that for the summer when I go net buy (by a lot)
Also systems are not set up like you imply. Technically it is possible to configure charge controllers to only charge with power from your panels, but I don't know anyone with a grid tied system who does this. The batteries are kept charged with power, and that power comes from the PV if it's generating enough or the grid if the PV isn't
Th battery life is measured in cycles. Your plan cycles the battery every day. Effectively you will be treating your batteries like you are completely off grid. This is going to be expensive and I don't know why you wouldn't just sell the excess, even if you think the rate is unfair, unless it's just out of principle
You are right in direction but I think off in magnitude. Battery systems are getting better but we have s long long way to go before people can operate their normal lives off grid at a price per kWh at or below the utility company. And it is inevitable but I think we are 20+ years out.
Sorry but are you responding to something I said? It doesn't sound like it.
I don't understand your suggestion. The pool will over-generate by a lot for peak hours (for solar generation not usage) and under-generate by a lot during off-peak. I don't see how this solves anything except for maybe AC units kicking on at different intervals.
Who gets the money from the generated power? Don't you basically end up with putting the government directly in the power plant business?
The retail rate for GENERATION yes. This is less than the headline number you pay per kWh, which includes delivery
On-paper life of inverters is 10-12 years. That's the weak point when it comes to maintenance, unless you have hail or wind damage or some other accident
I'm sorry but I have a really hard time believing your system has paid for itself in a few years. What kind of system is this? And what is your secret?
Congrats. You have joined the very large group of people in this thread who have no idea what they are talking about. You cannot size solar to meet your needs irrespective of net metering because your usage curve looks very different, sometimes almost exactly opposite, of the solar generation curve. You must have a battery of some sort. For most people that is the grid itself with net metering. So, no, this will hurt everyone, including people who sized solar for their needs only.
Your statement about common inverters is very misleading. Yes the inverters avoid feeding the grid when the grid is down for worker safety. But they do this by shutting off. Your home does not get solar power when the grid is down if you have a direct grid tie system.
The problem with that is someone must decide what is in the public's interest. If left alone the market can accommodate a diverse set of opinions, viewpoints, value judgments, etc. Your suggestion means only a limited set of opinions, viewpoints, value judgments, etc. are represented in cases where someone decides it's in the public's interest. That works as long as nobody disagrees with that decision. But if someone does, then you have created a situation where wealth is destroyed.
That is a terrible analogy. There are many alternatives to wired high speed internet, including cell, satellite, dial up, etc. Wired broadband is not a necessity. In contrast the alternatives to wired electricity delivery are few and partial, to the extent that I would argue they are not alternatives in the minds of most market participants.