iTunes uses around 40 MB of RAM on my WinXP SP1 machine, with no music files in my library and nothing playing. Add in the iPod driver and the iTunesHelper app that it runs in the background, and you've probably got around ~60MB of RAM usage on average.
Minimize and restore the app to get a better idea of it. Overall, do not use task manager to measure memory usage because the "memory usage" column should actually read "working set size." In reality the programmer can't do as much as you think they can about it, this number includes DLLs mapped onto the address space, and memory allocations.
Google groups post on the subject. Note the following sentence: "Windows does not aggressively release memory once allocated, since the application may reuse the memory soon."
The parent comment should be marked ignorant, as its clear he has no idea what he's talking about.
Eliminating the possibility of buffer overflows is not in line with the "philosophy" of C++: you only pay for what you use. As is noted in other posts, std::vector is range checked when you use the at() member function, which works in the same way as the subscript operator.
It is trivial to inherit publically from std::vector and fit bounds checking on it as well.
I think a big part of this is the tech community's old attitude toward Apple. Now that their old stereotype of Macs being more expensive isn't holding up they're caught in cognitive dissonance.
For a group of users that prides itself on alternative operating systems, its simply hilarious that you cling to the old stigma that Macs are slow and overpriced.
OS X is far superior to any Linux GUI and definitely has a lot more going for it overall than Linux. Now when Apple produces machines that might (hard to tell from the somewhat shoddy article) be faster than what you have currently, you don't have to get so agitated about it. Yeah, the article is pretty flawed. But at least try to reconcile the fact that the Macs might be faster than a PC right now. Then you can follow up with endless rants about how ObjC sucks/one button mice suck/Apple sucks/other reasons that only make sense to you.
Your example simply describes the misuse of exceptions. I can misuse pointers and destroy the stack, so do you think we should be disallowed pointers.
Whether you like them or not, exceptions greatly simplify application logic. You no longer have to consistantly check every single return value (making return values indicate success was backwards to begin with at the time - we just hadn't realized it. At least errno is somewhat consistent.)
Exceptions are used very rarely in C++. They do it right - they are thrown when the state of the object is destroyed by some circumstance, or some other catastrophic failure such as the new operator failing. And it is really freakin hard to make C++ throw an exception from the standard library.
Re:some people are desperately defending C and MS
on
The Next Path for Joy
·
· Score: 1
There is nothing good or magical about C. C is simply an assembler with a better syntax. Why do people cling to things like that for their deal life?
Ignorance and close-mindedness.
Look up any C++ post on Slashdot and you'll find a plethora of misinformation that only continues to perpetuate itself. Nevermind that several highly regarded UI toolkits such as KDE and Qt are written in C++. Worse, these people clearly don't want to learn that they are wrong.
That and there's the mistaken concept that if its written in something other than C it will end up being slow. I recall seeing a post on here advocating using Perl instead of C++ for performance reasons.
I've concluded that this site generates its own massive reality distortion field. Witness the recent response to HL2 as a prime example: "the final game won't be buggy at all because the whole world can debug it for them! HL2 has been freed!"
I peeked at one of the screenshots, and saw they format their C++ classes as "CClassname." I lost a little bit of respect for them.:)
Legit or not, can we kill off Hungarian notation already?
With the release of an integer-based Vorbis decoder (named Tremor I believe) and multiple other players adding Vorbis compatibility, perhaps Apple will be persuaded to add Ogg Vorbis in a firmware update. I'm not a Mac fanboy, but I think they are well aware of the desire for a well-designed Ogg Vorbis player. Now, if they actually do so, then Apple really has a killer player on their hands.
Manufacturers of competing players would also do well to note that the iPod's semi-PDA features as well as the ability to act as a portable HD are what make it so appealing.
Many advocates seem to confuse OSS with organized religion. Ironically, they disparage religion for its belief system and how it limits your life, but then they turn around make statements like "Keep yourself pure -- don't install Windows XP for Half Life 2!!" I'm sure I'm not the only one that laughed when I saw "keep yourself pure."
It's an operating system, people. Not a way of life, or a higher moral standard, or any of that. Some of us just see it as a component of life, not the reason to tell others about it.
When I see people evangelizing Linux, I can't help but feel like they are REALLY missing the point. Linux in and of itself is a wonderful accomplishment, but its not for everyone. This is completely intentional. The Linux community and advocates thrive on not being mainstream. The feeling that you are 'oppressed' (or whatever term you want to mistakenly apply) is that which keeps the fervor high in the zealots.
Every other programming that language that is not C is bloated, useless and slow and hinders productivity. Even web applications should be written in pure C!
The gameplay of Legends is unlike any conventional FPS. It is heavily movement based, very fast and fluid. Learn to ski as early as possible - there will be players utilizing it fully, they are NOT cheating!
Do not expect your conventional FPS skills to get you very far here. Traditional FPS is simply slow in comparison. Indeed, the Legends learning curve is nearly vertical. That is the beauty of it. More competant players travel faster over the terrain.
Don't be put off by the difficulty. I can say with great confidence that the reward is a game that resembles a sport far more than any game previously.
One is written in C and is hacky, memory leaky code. Another is written in C# and is garbage collected and cleaner to read. For argument lets also suppose this one has a few more features.
Now, if they are both free, then one thinks the superior product wins.
Actually, not always. Since one app is managed code, it by definition has less control over how memory is allocated. All it takes is *one* "power" user who notices that the managed app has a working set size of 28,000K, and they immediately post "OMG SO BLOATED!!!!!!" on some bulletin board. Misinformation like this tends to spread like wildfire, and soon you have joeuser298182131 on slashdot saying "no way would i ever use that memory chugging program" and being modded up informative.
Differences with how memory is treated in managed code will not be easy to train to the power user group, which prides themselves on their knowledge of computers but can be resistant to changes like this. Remember when ACPI first came out? We were told that "IRQ SHARING IS VERY BAD!" Now no one even thinks about it.
In time our metrics for 'good' programs will change. Personally I think that even many unmanaged programs use up way too much memory for what they do.
Slashdot Mirror
You must be new here, we don't let people insult C and walk out alive.
iTunes uses around 40 MB of RAM on my WinXP SP1 machine, with no music files in my library and nothing playing. Add in the iPod driver and the iTunesHelper app that it runs in the background, and you've probably got around ~60MB of RAM usage on average.
Minimize and restore the app to get a better idea of it. Overall, do not use task manager to measure memory usage because the "memory usage" column should actually read "working set size." In reality the programmer can't do as much as you think they can about it, this number includes DLLs mapped onto the address space, and memory allocations.
Google groups post on the subject. Note the following sentence:
"Windows does not aggressively release memory once allocated, since the application may reuse the memory soon."
It appears you are only acquainted with stereotypical electronica.
Groups like Hybrid bring an amazing amount of warmth and emotion into what you think would be a soulless genre.
Yeah, nothing like one almost completely unaccepted subculture bashing another subculture for jargon.
Hypocrisy at its finest.
Treating me just fine, I don't use a Mac. I just think its hilarious that everyone gets worked up when there are claims that Macs are faster.
The parent comment should be marked ignorant, as its clear he has no idea what he's talking about.
Eliminating the possibility of buffer overflows is not in line with the "philosophy" of C++: you only pay for what you use. As is noted in other posts, std::vector is range checked when you use the at() member function, which works in the same way as the subscript operator.
It is trivial to inherit publically from std::vector and fit bounds checking on it as well.
I think a big part of this is the tech community's old attitude toward Apple. Now that their old stereotype of Macs being more expensive isn't holding up they're caught in cognitive dissonance.
Get over it, its just a computing platform.
You must be new here.
We don't take kindly to "common sense."
For a group of users that prides itself on alternative operating systems, its simply hilarious that you cling to the old stigma that Macs are slow and overpriced.
OS X is far superior to any Linux GUI and definitely has a lot more going for it overall than Linux. Now when Apple produces machines that might (hard to tell from the somewhat shoddy article) be faster than what you have currently, you don't have to get so agitated about it. Yeah, the article is pretty flawed. But at least try to reconcile the fact that the Macs might be faster than a PC right now. Then you can follow up with endless rants about how ObjC sucks/one button mice suck/Apple sucks/other reasons that only make sense to you.
Your example simply describes the misuse of exceptions. I can misuse pointers and destroy the stack, so do you think we should be disallowed pointers.
Whether you like them or not, exceptions greatly simplify application logic. You no longer have to consistantly check every single return value (making return values indicate success was backwards to begin with at the time - we just hadn't realized it. At least errno is somewhat consistent.)
Exceptions are used very rarely in C++. They do it right - they are thrown when the state of the object is destroyed by some circumstance, or some other catastrophic failure such as the new operator failing. And it is really freakin hard to make C++ throw an exception from the standard library.
Look up any C++ post on Slashdot and you'll find a plethora of misinformation that only continues to perpetuate itself. Nevermind that several highly regarded UI toolkits such as KDE and Qt are written in C++. Worse, these people clearly don't want to learn that they are wrong.
That and there's the mistaken concept that if its written in something other than C it will end up being slow. I recall seeing a post on here advocating using Perl instead of C++ for performance reasons.
I've concluded that this site generates its own massive reality distortion field. Witness the recent response to HL2 as a prime example: "the final game won't be buggy at all because the whole world can debug it for them! HL2 has been freed!"
The D programming language seems to be what you're looking for.
No runtime environment. Native string type. Garbage collector that you can suspend. And my favorite, object properties.
I'd mod you up if I could but obviously I can't. :)
I peeked at one of the screenshots, and saw they format their C++ classes as "CClassname." I lost a little bit of respect for them. :)
Legit or not, can we kill off Hungarian notation already?
Lets just call this an educated prediction.
With the release of an integer-based Vorbis decoder (named Tremor I believe) and multiple other players adding Vorbis compatibility, perhaps Apple will be persuaded to add Ogg Vorbis in a firmware update. I'm not a Mac fanboy, but I think they are well aware of the desire for a well-designed Ogg Vorbis player. Now, if they actually do so, then Apple really has a killer player on their hands.
Manufacturers of competing players would also do well to note that the iPod's semi-PDA features as well as the ability to act as a portable HD are what make it so appealing.
Many advocates seem to confuse OSS with organized religion. Ironically, they disparage religion for its belief system and how it limits your life, but then they turn around make statements like "Keep yourself pure -- don't install Windows XP for Half Life 2!!" I'm sure I'm not the only one that laughed when I saw "keep yourself pure."
It's an operating system, people. Not a way of life, or a higher moral standard, or any of that. Some of us just see it as a component of life, not the reason to tell others about it.
When I see people evangelizing Linux, I can't help but feel like they are REALLY missing the point. Linux in and of itself is a wonderful accomplishment, but its not for everyone. This is completely intentional. The Linux community and advocates thrive on not being mainstream. The feeling that you are 'oppressed' (or whatever term you want to mistakenly apply) is that which keeps the fervor high in the zealots.
You forgot about programming languages.
Every other programming that language that is not C is bloated, useless and slow and hinders productivity. Even web applications should be written in pure C!
The gameplay of Legends is unlike any conventional FPS. It is heavily movement based, very fast and fluid. Learn to ski as early as possible - there will be players utilizing it fully, they are NOT cheating! Do not expect your conventional FPS skills to get you very far here. Traditional FPS is simply slow in comparison. Indeed, the Legends learning curve is nearly vertical. That is the beauty of it. More competant players travel faster over the terrain. Don't be put off by the difficulty. I can say with great confidence that the reward is a game that resembles a sport far more than any game previously.
I thought thats why the C crowd continues using their language?
Obviously any form of subtle humor is lost on moderators.
Delete that damn teddy bear icon! For the sake of the Earth do the same thing!
Such as people attaching numbers to their name unnecessarily?
Say you have two apps in a crowded app category.
One is written in C and is hacky, memory leaky code.
Another is written in C# and is garbage collected and cleaner to read. For argument lets also suppose this one has a few more features.
Now, if they are both free, then one thinks the superior product wins.
Actually, not always. Since one app is managed code, it by definition has less control over how memory is allocated. All it takes is *one* "power" user who notices that the managed app has a working set size of 28,000K, and they immediately post "OMG SO BLOATED!!!!!!" on some bulletin board. Misinformation like this tends to spread like wildfire, and soon you have joeuser298182131 on slashdot saying "no way would i ever use that memory chugging program" and being modded up informative.
Differences with how memory is treated in managed code will not be easy to train to the power user group, which prides themselves on their knowledge of computers but can be resistant to changes like this. Remember when ACPI first came out? We were told that "IRQ SHARING IS VERY BAD!" Now no one even thinks about it.
In time our metrics for 'good' programs will change. Personally I think that even many unmanaged programs use up way too much memory for what they do.
It is a shame they won't bundle the X series in there, they were some of the best side scrollers ever made.
The updated soundtracks should hopefully sound very cool if they are done well.
But we're kings of our own opinions, where we [i]won't tolerate it with any sympathy[/i]. :)