I'm sorry to break this to you man, but you are out of your league on this discussion
So the guy going on about corrosion when we are talking about ice suggesting someone who was a member of ASTM in 1995 doesn't know about corrosion. Yes I know about passive layers, it's 99% of the reason to use aluminium or titanium - not happening in ice though is it? Also CO2 vs oxygen ions alone is a huge difference in the size of the stuff that has to diffuse through. Also please explain how the CO is going to be produced for electrolyte diffusion. It's still pretty big, but I suppose that's irrelevant since it isn't there. So did they consider electrolyte diffusion? I'd say they didn't because it's not fucking happening and you know that perfectly well yourself, it's just a fucking stupid bluff to insult the intelligence of yourself and anyone with the misfortune to read it. If you are going to make a big deal about your background then use it instead of making shit up that contradicts what you know. The first question anyone looking at trapped gas in something is going to ask is whether it's as it was when it was trapped and if not how much has it changed. Suggesting the researchers did not do that is a massive insult to them and whoever did the peer review. Of course you know that but you are pushing a political angle and mocking the "reality based community".
It's an observation then - they are acting as if they are heading for the sort of corruption that even China is finding too much to bear. Is that accurate enough?
Finally, I laid out, with scientific documents backing me, the difference between a pressure explosion from burning hydrogen and a true detonation explosive, and showed why the reactor vessel would have suffered no damage from the low overpressure at Fukushima.
Your magic iron ball? Give it up before turning yourself into more of a joke than you already have.
Pasteur’s anguish at the national crisis was magnified by the loss of his laboratory and the threat to his son's life. The war had jeopardised everything he cared about - Nation, Family and Science - and he was physically incapable of fighting back. This overwhelming feeling of impotence left him with an obsessive hatred of Germans and their nation and, by the end of the war, Pasteur had formulated a plan to avenge his nation’s honour.
At the time, although Germany had become the world leader in industrial chemistry, her main export was beer. Indeed, as part of the reparations demanded of France, Germany had subsumed Alsace and Lorraine, where hops were the primary crop and much of France's own beer production had been based. German beer outsold local brews throughout most of central Europe because it tasted better and kept longer, and its continued sale in France irritated Pasteur intensely. He planned to destroy Germany’s primary export market by developing the world's best beer in France, a brew he dubbed 'the beer of revenge'. ... A brilliant young Belgian brewer, Auguste de Bavay, met Pasteur on one of his trips and adopted his methods before emigrating to Melbourne, where he was employed at the Victoria Parade Brewery. Because of the warmer temperatures in Australia, de Bavay had to adapt Pasteur's methods to top fermentation. To protect against spoilage, he added greater amounts of hops, and fermented to a higher alcohol content. The highly fertile soils and plentiful sunshine resulted in increased levels of protein in the barley, which caused clouding of the beer, so de Bavay replaced some of the barley malt with cane sugar. The resulting beer was that now characteristic of Australia: light in colour and body, but tasting strongly of bitter hops. This style, although correctly described as a 'bitter' in Australia, is usually mistaken for a lager in Britain.
de Bavay was quickly promoted to chief brewer at Fosters, a position he held from 1894 to 1904
I very strongly disagree - it's quickly turning to shit. Full steam ahead into the cliff and nothing slow about it. Cutting everything other than quarrying when the mining boom is over is onion skin eating insane.
But how often do Katrina scale disasters happen in the wealthier parts of the world? I'm not really seeing the need here.
In terms of weather hitting hard - frequently. In terms of a clusterfuck of insane choices as the disaster approached - no so often. Florida etc gets hammered but they are used to it, they prepare for it, and that's a potential market for disaster preparation gear.
The sort of people that say no to the offer of extra trains to help with evacuation are not going to buy this stuff. The sort of people who have a plan for extra trains, busses etc and have schools or whatever set up as shelters in advance are the ones that will buy this stuff.
So it's for those that quietly do their jobs instead of a guy that gets told he's doing "a heck of a job" by the President for sending rescue crews off for a day of media relations training when the transport is available to get them in to the disaster site.
Then stop doing all that shit just in response to me pointing out that it's not they type of explosion that matters but the damage it does! Then you try to blame it on me - how childish.
Ah - complete denial which is counterproductive if you want to promote nuclear energy. Fukushima had a long list of fuckups a long way from the ideal of running a nuclear power facility which is why the earthquake caused so many problems there but not elsewhere. The entire list had nothing to do whether nuclear power is viable or not, it was about poor implementation. Saying it was perfect is either being an idiot or pretending to be one in the hope of tricking others into going along with the idiocy - which is it?
Your willful mis-reading to try to make your story stand up
You are the one telling the story and I just came in with a question you didn't want to answer. Did you recycle that line from another post?
So while some of your points about temperature and structure may (or may not) have merit
If you think they have no merit then you are not who you pretend to be since it would have been covered very early in your coursework.
How can electrolyte diffusion apply to carbon dioxide through almost pure ice anyway? That doesn't seem to make any sense which is why you look very much like someone just throwing some cut and pasted words in there to sow seeds of doubt. Are you that, did you just guess and not apply anything from your background or have I missed something?
I work in metal oxides also, and corrosion reactions to turn metal plus oxygen (oxygen being much larger than metals) into dirt are on the orders of years
So you are hoping I or some poor reader that has made it down this far doesn't know the difference between corrosion and diffusion? Shame on you! You could have used age hardening of some aluminium copper alloys as an example of fairly quick diffusion through a solid but you went for a shameful spoon bending trick and hoped nobody would notice your deliberate distraction.
I asked if an error analysis has been done on the ice samples
No you implied that an entire field of research made a high school level mistake for decades. That's pretty fucking insulting to the entire scientific and engineering community as you are well aware.
Then why act stupid? Of course pumped storage only works as part of an energy mix where you have excess base load power at night that you want to find something to do with, which means everywhere with coal or nuclear. Base load is an artifact of some of the cheaper power sources needing to run 24/7 for them to remain cheap.
Big Energy large grids covering the nation. We don't think in terms of small energy
"Small energy" with a "big energy" grid spanning timezones and increasing amounts of HVDC to sharply reduce transmission losses can give a very nice "big picture". The wind is always blowing somewhere (although some idiot here argued for ages about frequent continent wide calms that never happen), rain/snow is going to end up somewhere on a continent, and that solar in Texas is going to be kicking out the watts before California wakes up. Yes fossil fuels exist but let's just talk about the topic at hand. The grid spanning time zones gives you the wonderful situation of a shifting peak instead of everyone wanting the maximum amount of electricity at the same time - a way to save needing a lot of extra capacity if they were all State sized grids.
Yes, it's why I never learned to type at school because that's woman's work and it was a vocational stream for the girls. I got to learn how to use a drawing board and pencil instead. Who would have thought I'd be drawing by keyboard not many years later?
Both made a lot of sense to somebody at the time but it's an example of flaws in vocational instead of general education.
My metallugical background is pointing out to me that you should be considering gas diffusion through solid phases instead of liquid ones, and since that is so incredibly obvious it makes me wonder if you really are who you are pretending to be or just trying on some sort of bluff. Carbon Dioxide is pretty large in comparison to the ice crystal structure it has to get through, and drop that down to temperatures where the carbon dioxide isn't that far from being a solid itself and there's not a lot to drive diffusion is there?
A scientist wouldn't just say "Oh, the concentration at depth X is here, therefore everything is true."
It's not as you suggest and sounds like a gross insult to people who freeze their arses off in Antarctica to do this sort of sampling. It sounds like you are dishing out some "name calling" immediately before being asked for no response in kind.
So, got anything on electrolyte diffusion through ice - which in this case is fairly pure, solid right at the time of deposition and really cold? Would it happen at all? If so is it relevant at all in less than long geological timescales?
I'd be interested if it is relevant but it appears to defy all logic - thus easily mistaken for FUD bullshit if it has not been deliberated crafted as such. Also the ice cores are not the only source of information available about historical carbon dioxide levels so you've got a few more things to debunk before you can push bullshit about an unchanging atmosphere down our throats.
Seriously guys - every time I give an example of malware on an MS platform I get modded down - grow a pair instead of living in denial.
Back to the above poster, yes it may still happen in environments where security was considered from day one but I'm convinced the years of no privelage separation at all has resulted in the scale of the current problem.
Care to link to a paper on electrolyte diffusion of carbon dioxide through ice at -40C and below or are you just bluffing?
Of course mister cut and paste above is unlikely to even know that diffusion rates vary with temperature so will dismiss the low temperatures of the ice cores as irrelevant.
Obviously today's weather readings become tomorrow's climate data so why predend to be too stupid to be able to work out how to log on here? Show some respect for the poor bastards who are reading what you've written.
Slashdot Mirror
So the guy going on about corrosion when we are talking about ice suggesting someone who was a member of ASTM in 1995 doesn't know about corrosion. Yes I know about passive layers, it's 99% of the reason to use aluminium or titanium - not happening in ice though is it?
Also CO2 vs oxygen ions alone is a huge difference in the size of the stuff that has to diffuse through. Also please explain how the CO is going to be produced for electrolyte diffusion. It's still pretty big, but I suppose that's irrelevant since it isn't there. So did they consider electrolyte diffusion? I'd say they didn't because it's not fucking happening and you know that perfectly well yourself, it's just a fucking stupid bluff to insult the intelligence of yourself and anyone with the misfortune to read it.
If you are going to make a big deal about your background then use it instead of making shit up that contradicts what you know. The first question anyone looking at trapped gas in something is going to ask is whether it's as it was when it was trapped and if not how much has it changed. Suggesting the researchers did not do that is a massive insult to them and whoever did the peer review. Of course you know that but you are pushing a political angle and mocking the "reality based community".
It's an observation then - they are acting as if they are heading for the sort of corruption that even China is finding too much to bear.
Is that accurate enough?
Is that so deflagration boy?
Your magic iron ball?
Give it up before turning yourself into more of a joke than you already have.
From http://www.jcu.edu.au/cgc/Beer...
http://www.jcu.edu.au/cgc/Beer...
I very strongly disagree - it's quickly turning to shit. Full steam ahead into the cliff and nothing slow about it.
Cutting everything other than quarrying when the mining boom is over is onion skin eating insane.
The USA already did that for a while, hence RSA having to do their work offshore for many years due to utterly insane export restrictions.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu...
http://www.themalthouse.co.nz/blog/125-the-beer-of-revenge
Louis Pasteur's beer is the basis of Fosters.
WTF in ice is going to reduce CO2 to CO so that electrolyte diffusion can happen at all?
What an incredibly stupid bluff.
In terms of weather hitting hard - frequently. In terms of a clusterfuck of insane choices as the disaster approached - no so often. Florida etc gets hammered but they are used to it, they prepare for it, and that's a potential market for disaster preparation gear.
The sort of people that say no to the offer of extra trains to help with evacuation are not going to buy this stuff. The sort of people who have a plan for extra trains, busses etc and have schools or whatever set up as shelters in advance are the ones that will buy this stuff.
So it's for those that quietly do their jobs instead of a guy that gets told he's doing "a heck of a job" by the President for sending rescue crews off for a day of media relations training when the transport is available to get them in to the disaster site.
"Troll" does not mean someone that disagrees with an unfounded opinion.
Then stop doing all that shit just in response to me pointing out that it's not they type of explosion that matters but the damage it does!
Then you try to blame it on me - how childish.
Seems to be the target even if the TSA hasn't hit it yet.
A vehicle to get money into the correct pockets.
Who ever said that India and China could ever beat the USA at anything - even corruption.
Fukushima had a long list of fuckups a long way from the ideal of running a nuclear power facility which is why the earthquake caused so many problems there but not elsewhere. The entire list had nothing to do whether nuclear power is viable or not, it was about poor implementation.
Saying it was perfect is either being an idiot or pretending to be one in the hope of tricking others into going along with the idiocy - which is it?
You are the one telling the story and I just came in with a question you didn't want to answer. Did you recycle that line from another post?
If you think they have no merit then you are not who you pretend to be since it would have been covered very early in your coursework.
How can electrolyte diffusion apply to carbon dioxide through almost pure ice anyway? That doesn't seem to make any sense which is why you look very much like someone just throwing some cut and pasted words in there to sow seeds of doubt. Are you that, did you just guess and not apply anything from your background or have I missed something?
So you are hoping I or some poor reader that has made it down this far doesn't know the difference between corrosion and diffusion? Shame on you! You could have used age hardening of some aluminium copper alloys as an example of fairly quick diffusion through a solid but you went for a shameful spoon bending trick and hoped nobody would notice your deliberate distraction.
No you implied that an entire field of research made a high school level mistake for decades. That's pretty fucking insulting to the entire scientific and engineering community as you are well aware.
Then why act stupid?
Of course pumped storage only works as part of an energy mix where you have excess base load power at night that you want to find something to do with, which means everywhere with coal or nuclear. Base load is an artifact of some of the cheaper power sources needing to run 24/7 for them to remain cheap.
Heavy enough for tropical jungle and growing sugar cane is pretty heavy dude.
"Small energy" with a "big energy" grid spanning timezones and increasing amounts of HVDC to sharply reduce transmission losses can give a very nice "big picture". The wind is always blowing somewhere (although some idiot here argued for ages about frequent continent wide calms that never happen), rain/snow is going to end up somewhere on a continent, and that solar in Texas is going to be kicking out the watts before California wakes up. Yes fossil fuels exist but let's just talk about the topic at hand.
The grid spanning time zones gives you the wonderful situation of a shifting peak instead of everyone wanting the maximum amount of electricity at the same time - a way to save needing a lot of extra capacity if they were all State sized grids.
Yes, it's why I never learned to type at school because that's woman's work and it was a vocational stream for the girls. I got to learn how to use a drawing board and pencil instead. Who would have thought I'd be drawing by keyboard not many years later?
Both made a lot of sense to somebody at the time but it's an example of flaws in vocational instead of general education.
So China on the right now?
What a fucking idiot.
Carbon Dioxide is pretty large in comparison to the ice crystal structure it has to get through, and drop that down to temperatures where the carbon dioxide isn't that far from being a solid itself and there's not a lot to drive diffusion is there?
It's not as you suggest and sounds like a gross insult to people who freeze their arses off in Antarctica to do this sort of sampling. It sounds like you are dishing out some "name calling" immediately before being asked for no response in kind.
So, got anything on electrolyte diffusion through ice - which in this case is fairly pure, solid right at the time of deposition and really cold? Would it happen at all? If so is it relevant at all in less than long geological timescales?
I'd be interested if it is relevant but it appears to defy all logic - thus easily mistaken for FUD bullshit if it has not been deliberated crafted as such.
Also the ice cores are not the only source of information available about historical carbon dioxide levels so you've got a few more things to debunk before you can push bullshit about an unchanging atmosphere down our throats.
Seriously guys - every time I give an example of malware on an MS platform I get modded down - grow a pair instead of living in denial.
Back to the above poster, yes it may still happen in environments where security was considered from day one but I'm convinced the years of no privelage separation at all has resulted in the scale of the current problem.
Care to link to a paper on electrolyte diffusion of carbon dioxide through ice at -40C and below or are you just bluffing?
Of course mister cut and paste above is unlikely to even know that diffusion rates vary with temperature so will dismiss the low temperatures of the ice cores as irrelevant.
Obviously today's weather readings become tomorrow's climate data so why predend to be too stupid to be able to work out how to log on here? Show some respect for the poor bastards who are reading what you've written.