That kind of makes two of us because I was asking what systemd was supposed to solve apart from empire building and while I have to say you did try hard I disagree with your very fuzzy attempt at an answer. IMHO those problems you said systemd was supposed to have solved have not actually been addressed in systemd. The lack of parallel init in an earlier system was addressed in upstart but barely touched on in systemd (as seen by those instances, which were never common and are becoming rarer, where systemd just hangs). The other "problems" still exist in all the current init systems.
Why write so much when you know that you are not going to be taken seriously for any of it? Your stupid thin-skinned kneejerk stuff above happened and trying to bury it under a bigger pile of bullshit is not going to help.
You apparently believe that you can simply declare something
Of course I can. Such a declaration is what is called an example.
What's with the truckload of baggage? I never said the rest of the world is perfect, just that California has had some odd laws and mismangement. Your obsession with definitions on one hand and dismissal of the inconvenient ones on the other is kind of pointless in this context. If you accused another place of having a "brownout" without knowing what it actually means (or more likely the pretence of ignorance for the sake of convenience) that's not my fault.
Unfortunately, I believe you have succumbed to a mindset, where instead of realizing your faults, you reject criticism and fail to improve your arguments.
Sorry, but I laughed when I read that - good advice but in this situation it applies to yourself and not the very short and simple statements of examples (not arguments at all) that I gave above. You are coming off like an Eliza bot completely unaware of what you have written only a few lines before. It kind of looks like a cut and paste insult you've used before that hilariously applies to yourself instead.
Well, named is a start but list means something else in this context. Do you have a link to a listing of that splunk startup script that apparently works on both systems?
Are you trying to imply that you opened this conversation in good faith
My post is right there above. No stuff such as "it's definitely easier to rant against something if you know next to nothing about it" - that bit of bad faith was entirely yours, as is your very long rant directly above which seems to be the only rant here.
If you want to be taken seriously I suggest acting appropriately. The "one rule for me and another for others" attitude comes off as somewhat childish.
Also what's with the fucking lecture - indeed a revisionist lecture? I've been following this for more than a decade ever since Lennert's ill-fated roadshow to convince people outside of RedHat to grant him the linux crown. If you are going to parrot Lennart's own words, but get them wrong, just provide a link to his blog. Maybe try reading it yourself to clear up those misconceptions that you are attempting to propagate for some reason.
I'm not interested in being further baited and insulted
Yes, it's kind of obvious that you think that's something you should do to other people and not be subjected to yourself in even the mildest form.
you can find a more respectable tone of address
Such as this of yours for example?
I mean, it's definitely easier to rant against something if you know next to nothing about it
It appears I was far more respectful than that - I asked a question leaving doubt that you are as bad as you appear and gave you an opportunity to defend yourself instead of accusations like those you made. Go on - show you are more than the clueless fanboy with a thin skin that you appear to be. I have a thousand times more respect for Lennart who fixes some of his mistakes than some clueless cheerleader that pretends no mistakes were made.
Ah there's that "research" again as if just reading a few things is that - when did that become a doubleplusgood thing instead of what it means in English? Of course I know the reason - it's in Lennart's blog and I summed it up above - he wants to "own" linux. There's several other init projects out there, are you aware of them? Are you the one who knows "next to nothing about it" so have only fanboy bluster instead of the valid reason I'm supposed to have found via "research", which you have not done yourself?
When Mozilla collapses, Rust will be gone as well. It really has not many things to recommend it, but some major shortcomings including the rabid and insane Rust community.
I have not been paying attention to Rust (I still see Python as that "new thing", like Perl but with whitespace, so haven't even looked at the newer trendier things) but you've got me curious now. What sort of things give the Rust community that reputation?
early adopters should note that you do not want the powder in your lungs. I also should mention there's a bit of a fire hazard with metal powder but it's not that hard to work around. The main thing is don't get it or the fumes from that burning plastic inside you.
Only if you mean bucks being passed under the table. The federal agency was supposed to be there to keep whatever incumbents were in each state honest.
"Small government" is far too often a euphemism for "nobody to catch me taking/giving a bribe". It's often the same with "cutting red tape".
If either party actually believed in small government for it's own sake we wouldn't have the massive Homeland Security department or so many people in the TSA.
Redhat own it as well as having a lot of the gnome developers on payroll. It was decided that if you want the current gnome you need systemd. Thus if other distros want gnome they need systemd. Lennart has a blog and the office politics that were the real reason for the decision are crowed about on it. He is on the road to making linux his as far as he sees it. A bit more attention to detail or some listening to advice and it wouldn't matter.
The idea itself isn't bad. The implementation of taking things over instead of working with existing tools, and the replacement being substandard due to communication problems and not caring how things were done before - that is the issue. Linux is deliberately made to act like an older version of *nix. Changing that entire idea of having something new that behaves completely differently is bound to annoy many people who choose to use linux.
Also, but far more trivially, such a major change connecting to so much other software has meant older platforms being abandoned and software concentrating onto specific platforms, which was kind of annoying me this week putting stuff on a couple of old Macs. That's just an example symptom of major change versus incremental change.
I've shifted a lot of stuff to FreeBSD, but that's only a good move if the software you want to use runs on it. With commercial software I'm stuck on RHEL6/CentOS6 since the vendor can't work out how to get it to run on RHEL7 (which has systemd) let alone other platforms.
It's worth noting that systemd is compatible for SysV init scripts
Yes, there may be a couple of old scripts that work with systemd but I've never seen them. Have you? Can you list even a single one? The syntax is very different.
With respect you can even use a text editor to add a user or change the username, it's introduction to *nix territory. There's no point quibbling and Lennart is now checking for valid inputs instead of just blaming the "tool" that creates inputs he did not expect.
It is dangerous to allow them to start with digits as we have seen
Only within the window of Lennart's "not a bug" and only with systemd. He made the utter newbie mistake of not checking his inputs when there are inputs that can have dire consequences on how his code works. Now he's checking his inputs, good to see, but you defending him not checking them in the first place is not getting anything done apart from annoyance.
like you who don't understand the problems it's designed to solve
Which is what exactly? A single enormous codebase maintained by a generalist with little supervision instead of specific programs maintained by experts? Why is that a problem?
Maybe, but it's kind of a big deal if they have ever been used live in an election and are found to be this substandard. It's worth looking at the process involved to purchase the things in the first place to see if there were any shortcuts or criminal activity (eg. kickbacks) in the process to avoid the same mistake happening again. Also a lot of smug bastards like me get to say "I told you so". Diebold especially were up to a few things that looked very suspicious, including having a convicted fraudster in charge of the project.
We just have to hope no attention seekers like the "3D printed plastic gun" idiots make some noise about this stuff. Seriously guys, "zip guns" have been around for a long time so there's no need to worry. also "real" hobby guns that can take real usage instead of single shot are a thing. A guy I know even made a semi-replica musket that is breech loading with one inch cartridges - with hand tools! It has trouble hitting a barn, even when he cuts down on the powder charge in the cartidges, but it's real (and legally registered).
A couple of minor things First, metallic glass is usually extremely strong but it's not really relevant here because it's not trivial to make. Second, Rolls Royce and others have some secondary turbines made entirely from metal powder (I didn't know either until one was in the news after failing spectacularly in an Airbus a few years ago). They are using a hot isostatic press method which is a bit different to what is in the article but it's possible that laser sintering could end up with close enough to the same properties.
There's shapes you can't make on a lathe or mill since you've got to hold onto something and can't get to the inside. Also this is an additive process which can be nice with expensive material. Instead of throwing away most of a block of material you build it up out of powder. Another thing is that this might actually be cheaper than machining for some very hard to machine materials.
I don't see this as being useful for everything but instead really useful in a few situations. If this takes off as a hobby early adopters should not that you do not want the powder in your lungs and do not want the fumes from the burning organic additives there either - face masks and some sort of fume extraction should be used. It doesn't need to be expensive, take a look at what some hobby woodworkers do for dust extraction and that's going to get enough air moving to take care of a lot of fumes as well.
Slashdot Mirror
That kind of makes two of us because I was asking what systemd was supposed to solve apart from empire building and while I have to say you did try hard I disagree with your very fuzzy attempt at an answer. IMHO those problems you said systemd was supposed to have solved have not actually been addressed in systemd. The lack of parallel init in an earlier system was addressed in upstart but barely touched on in systemd (as seen by those instances, which were never common and are becoming rarer, where systemd just hangs). The other "problems" still exist in all the current init systems.
That's why I wrote what I wrote.
Why write so much when you know that you are not going to be taken seriously for any of it?
Your stupid thin-skinned kneejerk stuff above happened and trying to bury it under a bigger pile of bullshit is not going to help.
Of course I can. Such a declaration is what is called an example.
What's with the truckload of baggage? I never said the rest of the world is perfect, just that California has had some odd laws and mismangement. Your obsession with definitions on one hand and dismissal of the inconvenient ones on the other is kind of pointless in this context. If you accused another place of having a "brownout" without knowing what it actually means (or more likely the pretence of ignorance for the sake of convenience) that's not my fault.
Sorry, but I laughed when I read that - good advice but in this situation it applies to yourself and not the very short and simple statements of examples (not arguments at all) that I gave above. You are coming off like an Eliza bot completely unaware of what you have written only a few lines before.
It kind of looks like a cut and paste insult you've used before that hilariously applies to yourself instead.
Well, named is a start but list means something else in this context. Do you have a link to a listing of that splunk startup script that apparently works on both systems?
My post is right there above. No stuff such as "it's definitely easier to rant against something if you know next to nothing about it" - that bit of bad faith was entirely yours, as is your very long rant directly above which seems to be the only rant here.
If you want to be taken seriously I suggest acting appropriately.
The "one rule for me and another for others" attitude comes off as somewhat childish.
Also what's with the fucking lecture - indeed a revisionist lecture? I've been following this for more than a decade ever since Lennert's ill-fated roadshow to convince people outside of RedHat to grant him the linux crown. If you are going to parrot Lennart's own words, but get them wrong, just provide a link to his blog. Maybe try reading it yourself to clear up those misconceptions that you are attempting to propagate for some reason.
I'm not sure about the former, but after meeting some of them the latter definitely applies. A couple of the ones I met ended up doing time in prison.
No, those people are far worse than him on a bad day. Lennart has issues with criticism but not to the extent of some of the fanboys.
Yes, it's kind of obvious that you think that's something you should do to other people and not be subjected to yourself in even the mildest form.
Such as this of yours for example?
It appears I was far more respectful than that - I asked a question leaving doubt that you are as bad as you appear and gave you an opportunity to defend yourself instead of accusations like those you made.
Go on - show you are more than the clueless fanboy with a thin skin that you appear to be. I have a thousand times more respect for Lennart who fixes some of his mistakes than some clueless cheerleader that pretends no mistakes were made.
Ah there's that "research" again as if just reading a few things is that - when did that become a doubleplusgood thing instead of what it means in English?
Of course I know the reason - it's in Lennart's blog and I summed it up above - he wants to "own" linux. There's several other init projects out there, are you aware of them? Are you the one who knows "next to nothing about it" so have only fanboy bluster instead of the valid reason I'm supposed to have found via "research", which you have not done yourself?
I have not been paying attention to Rust (I still see Python as that "new thing", like Perl but with whitespace, so haven't even looked at the newer trendier things) but you've got me curious now. What sort of things give the Rust community that reputation?
early adopters should note that you do not want the powder in your lungs.
I also should mention there's a bit of a fire hazard with metal powder but it's not that hard to work around. The main thing is don't get it or the fumes from that burning plastic inside you.
Only if you mean bucks being passed under the table.
The federal agency was supposed to be there to keep whatever incumbents were in each state honest.
"Small government" is far too often a euphemism for "nobody to catch me taking/giving a bribe". It's often the same with "cutting red tape".
If either party actually believed in small government for it's own sake we wouldn't have the massive Homeland Security department or so many people in the TSA.
Redhat own it as well as having a lot of the gnome developers on payroll. It was decided that if you want the current gnome you need systemd. Thus if other distros want gnome they need systemd.
Lennart has a blog and the office politics that were the real reason for the decision are crowed about on it. He is on the road to making linux his as far as he sees it. A bit more attention to detail or some listening to advice and it wouldn't matter.
The idea itself isn't bad. The implementation of taking things over instead of working with existing tools, and the replacement being substandard due to communication problems and not caring how things were done before - that is the issue.
Linux is deliberately made to act like an older version of *nix. Changing that entire idea of having something new that behaves completely differently is bound to annoy many people who choose to use linux.
Also, but far more trivially, such a major change connecting to so much other software has meant older platforms being abandoned and software concentrating onto specific platforms, which was kind of annoying me this week putting stuff on a couple of old Macs. That's just an example symptom of major change versus incremental change.
I've shifted a lot of stuff to FreeBSD, but that's only a good move if the software you want to use runs on it. With commercial software I'm stuck on RHEL6/CentOS6 since the vendor can't work out how to get it to run on RHEL7 (which has systemd) let alone other platforms.
Yes, there may be a couple of old scripts that work with systemd but I've never seen them. Have you? Can you list even a single one?
The syntax is very different.
Because they want the new gnome and it's tied into systemd.
With respect you can even use a text editor to add a user or change the username, it's introduction to *nix territory. There's no point quibbling and Lennart is now checking for valid inputs instead of just blaming the "tool" that creates inputs he did not expect.
Only within the window of Lennart's "not a bug" and only with systemd.
He made the utter newbie mistake of not checking his inputs when there are inputs that can have dire consequences on how his code works. Now he's checking his inputs, good to see, but you defending him not checking them in the first place is not getting anything done apart from annoyance.
Which is what exactly? A single enormous codebase maintained by a generalist with little supervision instead of specific programs maintained by experts? Why is that a problem?
Maybe, but it's kind of a big deal if they have ever been used live in an election and are found to be this substandard. It's worth looking at the process involved to purchase the things in the first place to see if there were any shortcuts or criminal activity (eg. kickbacks) in the process to avoid the same mistake happening again.
Also a lot of smug bastards like me get to say "I told you so". Diebold especially were up to a few things that looked very suspicious, including having a convicted fraudster in charge of the project.
We just have to hope no attention seekers like the "3D printed plastic gun" idiots make some noise about this stuff.
Seriously guys, "zip guns" have been around for a long time so there's no need to worry. also "real" hobby guns that can take real usage instead of single shot are a thing. A guy I know even made a semi-replica musket that is breech loading with one inch cartridges - with hand tools! It has trouble hitting a barn, even when he cuts down on the powder charge in the cartidges, but it's real (and legally registered).
A couple of minor things
First, metallic glass is usually extremely strong but it's not really relevant here because it's not trivial to make.
Second, Rolls Royce and others have some secondary turbines made entirely from metal powder (I didn't know either until one was in the news after failing spectacularly in an Airbus a few years ago). They are using a hot isostatic press method which is a bit different to what is in the article but it's possible that laser sintering could end up with close enough to the same properties.
There's shapes you can't make on a lathe or mill since you've got to hold onto something and can't get to the inside.
Also this is an additive process which can be nice with expensive material. Instead of throwing away most of a block of material you build it up out of powder.
Another thing is that this might actually be cheaper than machining for some very hard to machine materials.
I don't see this as being useful for everything but instead really useful in a few situations.
If this takes off as a hobby early adopters should not that you do not want the powder in your lungs and do not want the fumes from the burning organic additives there either - face masks and some sort of fume extraction should be used. It doesn't need to be expensive, take a look at what some hobby woodworkers do for dust extraction and that's going to get enough air moving to take care of a lot of fumes as well.
The "works for me in a pretty fucking extreme situation" example
You can take your phallusy and stick it.