Slashdot Mirror
How Rust Can Replace C In Python Libraries (infoworld.com)
An anonymous reader quotes InfoWorld:
Proponents of Rust, the language engineered by Mozilla to give developers both speed and memory safety, are stumping for the language as a long-term replacement for C and C++. But replacing software written in these languages can be a difficult, long-term project. One place where Rust could supplant C in the short term is in the traditionally C libraries used in other languages... [A] new spate of projects are making it easier to develop Rust libraries with convenient bindings to Python -- and to deploy Python packages that have Rust binaries.
The article specifically highlights these four new projects:
The article specifically highlights these four new projects:
- Rust-CPython - a set of bindings in Rust for the CPython runtime
- PyO3 - a basic way to write Rust software with bindings to Python in both directions.
- Snaek - lets developers create Rust libraries that are loaded dynamically into Python as needed, but don't rely on being linked statically against Python's runtime.
- Cookiecutter PyPackage Rust Cross-Platform Publish - simplifies the process of bundling Rust binaries with a Python library.
Will you rust faggots give it up. Nobody will ever use rust.
The way I often do...
How was I to know...She was with the Russians too?
Why use the new language of the month when C has been around for decades, is welll understood and does exactly what we want?
How long before I start replacing rust with decay? 6 months? A year?
And wake me up when Rust stop being a cult and becomes an actually useful language.
I've read a third of the Rust nightly book and watched many, many Rust videos on youtube. I like Rust very much. However, I believe Rust was invented by, is sponsored by, and gets it's major funding from the Mozilla foundation. There is essentially no more Mozilla Thunderbird, and the Mozilla Firefox browser is getting significantly less usage. We've had articles on such here on Slashdot. If the Mozilla browser itself falters any more, would Mozilla, and hence rust, stay alive?
Rust is very tied to Mozilla. And Mozilla's only remaining "successful" product is Firefox. But Firefox's market share is dropping. It was only a few percent, last I saw, while Chrome is over 50%. Mozilla reportedly gets a lot of funding from Yahoo, due to a Firefox search deal. So here we have an organization with one major product, but this project is being rejected by consumers, and what might be this organization's most significant source of revenue comes from this failing product and is paid for by another company that isn't doing so well. I fear for Mozilla's future if, say, the Yahoo deal wasn't renewed and they couldn't find a replacement.
If Mozilla goes the way of the dodo bird, then I can't see the Rust project really going anywhere. I don't think it has a robust independent community like C++ has, for example.
I think it is too risky to adopt Rust, especially for important long term projects. The tech industry moves fast. Rust could plausibly be gone in 3 years, while languages like C, C++ and even PHP are far more likely to be going strong.
They are the most incompetent, evil pieces of shits out there. Look what they did to Firefox. Again and again... They are absolutely insane.
For example Py-CRust.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I was interested in learning Rust and perhaps using it for some personal projects, but then I discovered how the community seems to care so much about social engineering.
We're not allowed to use "Master" and "Slave". https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-buildbot/issues/2
We're required to rephrase old texts to fit into "gender non-binary" language. https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/25640
I'm sure they don't have problems "killing child processes" though...
etc., etc.
I'm not interested in using a programming language as some kind of social engineering experiment.
Maybe we'll be relevant if we get enough of these garbage cargo culters using our Rust imports unwittingly?
I heard a rumor that Rust was the language of pedophiles, but this is analogous to behaving like sexual predator, Mozilla with a lurid lust in its eye lurking in the bushes trying to sneak a "Rust" needle into the "sandbox"... I do not know who among us can tolerate this for much longer, but I am clenching my bootyhole & saving myself for Google.
What I don't get is why the Rust community lacks diversity, despite them putting so much emphasis on supposedly supporting diversity.
Years ago, back when I was a Java developer, I would sometimes go to Java conferences. There would be men there. There would be women there. There were probably transsexuals there. There would be old adults and young adults. There would be people representing every possible skin color. There would be somebody from pretty much every major ethnicity. There would be practitioners of pretty much every major religion. There was true diversity, without anyone actually trying to impose it through Codes of Conducts and Moderation Teams and "initiatives" and "affirmative action".
Yet here we have Rust, with its invasive Code of Conduct, and the Rust Moderation Team to force it on the community, and all of its focus on "diversity" and "social justice". But when we look at the profile pictures of Rust's contributors, they appear to mostly be mid-20s white males (I'm assuming "steveklabnik" is a male).
Now don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with being a mid-20s white male programmer. This isn't about singling anyone out, or about claiming that some mythical "privilege" exists, or anything like that.
The issue here is that it appears that the more that the Rust community intentionally pushes for "diversity", the less of that we actually see. Instead of seeing a naturally diverse community form on its own, like pretty much every other programming language has, we've seen Rust's community become extremely homogeneous.
It's as if the Rust community's efforts to force diversity on their community has actually had the complete opposite effect! While trying to create the most diverse community, they've actually only managed to create the least diverse one I've ever seen!
- <'I:t's V:ery, Intricate> =(o_0)=
- Its super neato
- many asperger rules
- very intricate
- Rust is new and it;s <V:ery I'n,t:r',&icate>
- <(o,o)> Over-complicated cartoon-like syntax for childlike homosexuals
Something that gets this much hype cannot be good, or the hype would not be needed. Seems to me some cretins are using Rust as a religion-surrogate.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Stop fucking evangelizing this shit. Nobody gives a damn.
No.
Rust as a religion-surrogate.
They even have their own set of commandments and an inquisition.
Skill doesn't matter and criticism is harassment. Who wouldn't want to use a language developed by such a crack team of twitter twats?
We're going to get some creiming in this story!
Forgot the link: https://www.rust-lang.org/en-US/conduct.html
Police kicked in a door to an apartment across the street, and sure enough, it was some lanky, estrogen-puffy beta homo and his fat, ugly mixed-race genderfluid partner. They confiscated all the electronics, and I heard two detectives distinctly say "CHILD PORNOGRAPHY" and "lab wants the source repo for steno analysis".
Both of them Mozilla employees. The fat one had a stupid "Rust gear" t-shirt stretched over her beastly frame.
Being able to represent the sort of thing you'd use C or C++ for as a data structure within Python, and then turn into binary via LLVM is something I've been wishing for for a long time. I imagine I'll need to keep wishing for a while longer, but things like numba (in python), and application of LLVM like LLVMPipe, and the Synthesis OS project from a few years back suggest the pieces for doing this are gradually appearing.
John_Chalisque
.. when Linus decides the next major release is to be written in Rust.
... :)
Or for argument's sake, Mozilla itself.
Every language has it pitfalls, at least with ye olde C/C++ I know where to look and what to expect.
Suddenly you start to respect and embrace the get-off-my-lawn attitude, you simply want things to work rather than be written in the next greatest language of the moment.
I think I'm ready to deal with my dad now
I don't intend this to be taken as a joke in any way, nor do I intend it to be unnecessarily mean, but I think that the Rust community inadvertently discovered a new paradigm of software development: Autism-Driven Development.
When we look at what they've created, both from a technological standpoint and from a community standpoint, I can't help but notice the impact that Asperger Syndrome may have had on how things have developed.
Let's start with the community. While the communities of languages like Perl, C++, Python, Java and C# developed organically over time, it is almost as if the Rust community has been manufactured instead. It's like the community's interactions have been scripted, to use a programming analogy. It seems to me that the Rust Code of Conduct may actually be there as a way to allow people who suffer from varying degrees of social ineptitude to interact in a way that mimics how they see other, naturally-formed programming language communities made of sociable individuals interacting. They wouldn't be able to manage this social interaction on their own. But if you give them a script or a checklist they can follow, they can at least engage in something that appears, on the surface, to be socializing. That's why I think their incorporation of social justice is quite interesting. In many ways the concepts of social justice are all about imposing a foreign order on what is naturally a very chaotic and perhaps unfair reality.
The language and its standard library also reflect behavior that may be expected from those suffering from Asperger Syndrome. While creating the language, it is as if its developers haven't been able to make the normal trade-offs that other language developers have made with ease. We've seen this result in Rust, as a language, constantly change over time. It's like they're striving for some unattainable form of perfection that most normal people would realize could not be attained. While other people would accept some drawbacks to their creation and move on, the Rust community appears to waver back and forth, unable to really make up its mind about how to proceed. Even the supposedly stable Rust 1.x release branch has seen 19 minor releases!
I think the complexity of the language also reflects the role that, I suspect, Asperger Syndrome has had on the development of Rust. It has become an immensely complex and convoluted language, even compared to a rather complex language like C++. It's like the language has been designed, perhaps unintentionally, to be cryptic and unwelcoming to normal people. By its very nature it is like it is trying to be self-isolating, to avoid having to interact with the world and the people around it. Programming languages like Java, Python, C++, Perl and PHP want to be used by normal people. Those languages evolved in ways that draw in new users. But Rust? It has evolved to become very difficult and awkward to use, especially for new, average users.
From what I can see, the entire Rust ecosystem exhibits the traits that have come to be associated with Asperger Syndrome, or autism in general. Rust has a certain natural awkwardness to it; a inherent difference from every other programming language and programming language community that exists. It's like it wants to fit in, yet no matter how hard it tries it just can't. It's like, in my opinion, the entire Rust ecosystem lacks a natural understanding or ease of existence that other programming language ecosystems develop naturally.
I am just speculating here, as I do not know any of the Rust developers on any personal level, but could it be that mild/moderate autism or some degree of Asperger Syndrome has influenced how the Rust programming language has developed? If the developers of a programming language exhibit autism or Asperger Syndrome, could they in turn pass this on, so to speak, to a programming language and a related community that they have created? Could Rust be an example of, for lack of a better term, Autism-Driven Development?
They're really enthusiastic, mention that they think it's great at every opportunity, and can't understand when someone is underwhelmed by the object of their admiration....
There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
Most C libraries in Python exist in order to interface with existing APIs, also written in C. Adding Rust to the mix merely complicates things without any significant improvement in runtime safety.
It won't be as fast, but it will be much safer!
Rust can go and, well, rust. If you want to get safer C, than add Cyclone support to gcc and use that. No rewrites, no learning a new language, no hitching your project to a SJW converged organization that is slowly dying, no fanboys who pathetically spam puff pieces on Slashdot... Seriously, Cyclone or any of the other safe-C alternatives are better and less intrusive than a Rust rewrite.
Hydraulic pizza oven!! Guided missile! Herring sandwich! Styrofoam! Jayne Mansfield! Aluminum siding! Borax!
Jeez.
I wonder what would happen if brilliant and smooth-talking developers like Linus Torvalds or Theo de Raadt joined the rust community.
The Rust CoC is clear about what would happen :
We will exclude you from interaction if you insult, demean or harass anyone. That is not welcome behaviour. We interpret the term âoeharassmentâ as including the definition in the Citizen Code of Conduct; if you have any lack of clarity about what might be included in that concept, please read their definition. In particular, we donâ(TM)t tolerate behavior that excludes people in socially marginalized groups.
Such people would be excluded from the Rust community, despite the same paragraph in the CoC stating that excluding people is inexcusable!
I make money doing embedded C. If I am going to replace C with something else it will be Julia. I get the speed of C, the coding efficiency of Python and real support for computational algorithms.
fuckface.
Well,
C++ might be a bit ugly when it comes to templates, but for that you have typedef.
Nothing against Rust, it looks like a decent enough language (exept for the name, looks like the inventors like to repeat the subvers-ive/ion failure).
Anyway: why would one replace C with Rust instead of C++ is beyond me.
If you write new code, then I would probably agree, but for existing old code I see no justification.
I wonder if there is a Rust to JVM compiler ... googeling a bit ...
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Why do you call the once a year mentioning of Rust a Hype? /.
Typical american?
You know something, which most people don't know, you get news about it "again" and then you call it a hype?
I would assume that 90% or more "developers" or "programmers" never ever have heard about Rust.
I only know Rust because it is occasionally mentioned on
This "hype scare" is a quite strange thing for us europeans.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
NOTHING.
Exactly. Simply don't care about rust.
And yet here you all are, commenting on stories about Rust.
you would assume wrong, largely because you are making predictions about a culture & people you clearly have zero knowledge of barring ~~~internet~~~
I, for one, fully encourage the SJWs to ask Theo to add a code of conduct to OpenBSD.
Epic wouldn't even begin to describe the hilarity.
If Rust is going to replace C on any project, I'm not going to work on the project, nor will I invest money in that project.
This is what happens when developers make business decisions. Seriously, why is Mozilla focused on promoting/using/developing Rust, when they could be focused on making their browser suck less? Probably because they have no business concerns, at all, about making a viable product (or company.) I spent two weeks exclusively using Firefox, right when Google was found to be recording everything I said, in the event I happened to say "OK Google" without a way to turn this off. After two weeks, I realized I'd rather be bugged than use Firefox any longer.
This is exactly what Joel Spolsky wrote about, when Netscape did a complete rewrite here, or in his awesome book Joel on Software . Netscape focused on a rewrite, instead of making their browser suck less.
It sounds like Netscape made this mistake and then became Firefox. Now, it seems like Firefox is making the exact same mistake. This has to be the funniest business case study ever.
There is nothing wrong with the older languages. The problem is in the newer 'programmers' (and I use that term lightly)
Any language that gives meaning to white space deserves to die a quick death.
Nothing pleases me more than this thread. Shitposters from all countries and all politics putting aside their daily grievances to take the most important shit we can take, a big collective Slashdot shit on Rust.
By replacing small pieces of Firefox with new pieces that use Rust, they are avoiding the Netscape problem. They aren't rewriting the whole thing. But one day the whole browser will be Rust, replaced a piece at a time.
You don't think Microsoft Edge still uses pieces of Spyglass or Mosaic do you? And yet, at no point did they rewrite the whole thing.
I have a (structurally) simple application.
It is in a Docker container.
It is required that it has an HTTP server, Django, RabbitMQ, a few more custom things in an all-in-one with a small footprint.
It currently stands at 132MB, a large part of which is Erlang support. Part of the reason for this is because I just install compilers, compile existing Python libraries, then delete them, all in one step.
Mine is a "special case." But so is everyone's. My solution was simple to find. Where is the simple solution for this using Rust?
That.... would be a volatile combination. the Rust team are clearly developed by a fairly insular committee that want to promote certain values, meritocracy not being one of them. Linus is a no-bullshit pragmatist, he'd fork off in no time. They have different goals. There's some overarching vision for the Rust team, which naturally conflicts with the dominant egoism popular in Slashdot's demographic, and Linus doesn't play the game that way.
Definitely a shades of grey thing.
I think 1984 called that "doublethink". The ability to do it is an absolute requirement for any self-respecting fanatic!
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Fail and fail and fail again. You have any effective intelligence? Seems not so.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
If you want to depend on a language, certainly as a systems language, you need to be able to bootstrap it. Care to explain how that is properly done with rust and maybe list all the tools you need to bring it up on a platform where it wasn't available before?
Yes fail :D
As I fail to see a hype.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Yet another language for people who can't understand real programming languages.
Dude!
What kind of crappy HDMI TV OS do you have that requires constant rebooting?
My HDMI TV has an uptime so far of ten years, eight months, four hours, and thirty-six minutes. Give or take a second.
You know, Big Brother is sad when your TV is off. Even for a few tens of seconds!
Doubleplusgood!
Nothing will replace C nor C++ in the near future. Just like nothing has for the last decade!!!!
Read the documentation. Most Rust safety improvements have zero runtime cost. It's mostly done at compile time.
Almost all of the gain is free from a runtime perspective. Whether you consider it a cognitive cost or a cognitive boon (because you know your code won't eat itself and can stop worrying) is up to you.
I think most Java programmers would agree: Java has survived more despite Oracle than because of it. Wise stewardship of the Java language is not where Larry makes his money.
As far as I know this is exactly wrong. Edge was written from scratch, it was not a re-write of IE at all.
As the title says.
SJW bullshit "community" filled with weirdos working on a subpar language with retarded semantics and write-only code.
I thought you were a regular on this site. There is a random 'replace C with Rust in XXX' almost every week nowadays, always without any real arguments and usually based on the assumption that Rust somehow makes code immune to any bugs whatsoever and replacing perfectly fine C code with a reimplementation in Rust magically solves a problem that did not exist in the first place. If that's not a hype then I don't know what is.
Indeed. But true believers (that, by definition, ignore all evidence of any shortcomings of their chosen faith) will be unable to see their faith as "hype". This is quite normal and a sure way to identify what is going on with them.
@angel'o'sphere: You will never hire my as CTO, because I am not available to you. You do not have what it takes to impress me enough. My current CEO does.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Obviously, Rust, with it's run time checks, can't match the performance of C without those checks.
I get that it's tempting to brush off backing up your claim with the word "obviously" especially if the claim sounds so reasonable. But you're actually wrong here. I encourage you to look into the details. Most of the checks are done by the compiler at compile-time incurring no runtime cost. And with respect to array bounds checking ... depending on what you do these checks can often be elided. What do I mean by that? I don't mean "opting out at your own risk"—though, that's possible, too—I mean that there are patterns that make bounds checking just unnecessary in a lot of cases. The Rust team would consider it a bug if a simple C for-loop iterating over an array would be faster than the equivalent idiomatic Rust code. With the help of Rust's zero-cost iterator abstraction and enabled compiler optimizations you'll get exactly the same machine code for the loop logic. People actually checked this because they care about performance.
I see no compelling reason to switch to Rust.
Well, with your attitude and preconceived notions, it doesn't surprize me. You don't really know what Rust has to offer.
If having those run time checks "built in" is desirable enough, I think it would make more sense to re-introduce those checks to C compilers, (Yes, I know, Rust has other features "built in", but most, if not all, of those features are available in libraries with many years of use and testing. (They might even be used by Rust.))
The magic is in Rust's type system. That's how it's possible to avoid dangling pointers without incurring any runtime costs or adding a garbage collector. Show me that C library that does it for C. Sheesh! Array bounds safety is probably the most boring thing about Rust. Everybody can have array bounds safety easily.
https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/6qmw89/slashdot_how_rust_can_replace_c_in_python/
Hilarious thread in which the Rust "community" is showing its true colours. Retarded asocial curmudgeons raving and ranting like lunatics against anyone not in line with their hypocritical bullshit.
And as far as I know, Edge was not a rewrite, it was IE with everything old and legacy ripped out.
Let's see... the UI is new, re-written from scratch. The HTML parsing and formatting is new, written from scratch. The Javascript engine is new, written from scratch. What is left?
Or, in short, if you rip everything out, isn't that a re-write per definition?
I can't convince anyone without a copy of Microsoft's Edge revision control. So I guess think whatever you like.
But if they didn't create a new revision history, then yes it is the same browser. Firefox is still Firefox even though there's nothing left of the original. Linux is still Linux. I think there was an old bit of TTY code and some floppy driver code in the latest Linux left from 1993, but all the rest of it changed, and it's still the same thing.