I think you're mistaken. The problem isn't with the format of the ballot at all. Pencil and paper might work in your society, but here, some people would get confused and, rather than admit their mistakes or ask someone for help, they'd blame it on the lack of pencil sharpeners.
I actually worked our last local council (Australia/NSW) elections (all council elections are held at the same time, every 4 years). We use a simple pen and pencil system, with a preferential system (Number all candiates from 1 to whatever, with 1 being your first preference , 2 your second , and so on).
We do get a lot of informal votes , but this may nor be because of the preferential voting system. (Informal means invalid). I do not know if the informal are from problems with the system, or a form of protest (since voting is compulsory in all elections in Australia). The "F*CK all politicians" scrawed on the ballot was one that we where not ambigous about, but putting a X next to a name is less so.
Looking at the Jon's rant, I do believe he is full of shit on the topic. Any system can work, from casting pebbles in an urn , to show of hands, to automated systems. The net is not the promise land for all of societies ills, and especially for voting, I know I would pefer physical evidence when counting the votes, than looking at a lone of data.
1. It allows scrutiny in the count from all involved.
2. It allows disputes on iregularities to be checked (any balor paper has to be marked before issue, for security. How can you do that for a data packet?
The American system may need an overhaul, but it should be the concepts of the vote, not how it is collected.
It frustrates most at first... you just have to know where to find answers.
A good first source is the Linux Documentation Project:
www.linuxdoc.org
This site has lots of good info... check out the HOWTO's in particular.
[snip]
While these still require reading more than 2 sentences, if you want to get Linux running, and have some time to spend, these will answer 90% of your questions. Posting to Usenet will often clear up the rest.
Everyone Linux user was once a newbie. When I was starting out, these sites were invaluable for me. I hope they can help you too.
It is all well and good to have the exelent resources on the internet, but what about the newbies who cant set up ppp? Or has trouble logging onto th internet?
Some ISP's can not handle many of the ppp frontends (I used Kppp for one, and had to drill down to manual logging on to connect, how many newbie users know how to log on manually?)
I support Linux in the wider world, but we must look at supporting those users who can not/will not/unable to use the internet?
I just saw on the news that the Prime Minister's pushing for compulsory military service for the unemployed. [Snip] And the only possible use for those guns, an invasion into Australia aside, would be to control the population - under Australia's laws only full servicemen (not the Reserve) can serve overseas, the rest are limited to fighting on Australian soil.
Um, sorry. Reservists can and do serve overseas (especially if you have skills required...many Army doctors are reservists). Conscripts may not be able to serve overseas, it would be interesting to see if the pre-vietnam regeme is back in place on that one (anyone know?)
[Back on topic]
Australian broadcast laws are getting out of hand, it is not just internet, but Digital TV, radio licences and mobile phone are all a mess. I wish Rupert and Kerry Packer could buy the lot and sort the mess out (that was sarcasm folks!)
The main problem with not-for-profit organisations is one of investment capital. Something like an ISP is quite expensive to setup, and reasonably expensive to run at a reasonable level of service. However, if you run your business in such a way that at the end of the finanical year your debits and credits balance against each other, and you haven't made one single penny, what do you do when you need to upgrade your bandwidth due to an influx of customers?
There is no law that (in Australia) states that a Not for Profit organisation NOT to make a profit. Many Credit Unions here are not for profit, but makes profits anyway.
In real terms , is that whatever money they make , is reinvested back into the company as capital improvements.
Given the deplorable state of internet in Australia, especially rural users, you will find that many organisations would assits in capital for such an organistion, including State and Federal governments, and regional organisations like Shire Councils, Regonal development and industry lobby groups.
For an Aussie, this comes under the heading of "A fair go"
I'll go call Sun and IBM and tell them that Solaris, AIX, OS/400, and MVS aren't real. Boy will Scott McNeally be pissed.
As an AS/400 and AIX admin, that is just a stupid flamebait.
My parents have little technical nouse, and while my father can blunder his way through windows, there is no way that he could decode EDTUSRPRF or WRKACTJOB.
So the parent test is a good test for a user friendly interface. If all the users could handle the AS/400, my life would be sooooooo much easier.
I know I am far from being an expert on Stock Trading (pretty far from that really), but as of 4:25pm (based on CNN), their stock had already come down 3 points, and where will it go next week? How about the rest of the market? I, and certainly no one else here in America, would like to see our boom come to an end, even at the cost of ending MS's stronghold on the desktop world... is this a valid worry?
That what comes from a perception based market, not a factual based market. When M$ was assimulating any tech company it could, People felt this was a posative modiefier on their stock price, so the stock prices go up.
If people looked at the products, examined the marketing materials, looked at the coperate history of the company, they would have realised that M$ was in danger of exploding. Legally, it has DOJ, Calandra, Sun, Netscape, and who else wants to feed on the carcase. Product wise it had bloated products that costs more and more in hardware and software without productivity bonus implied by the marketing. Financially, it had the point of diminishing returns, you can only produce so much before the cost benifits deteriate (example, was it wise throwing all that money on IE? Especially if they NEVER saw a return?). Can a company still make a gazillion dollars p*ssing money against a wall to crush a competitor?
When going through message boards, the signal to noise ratio can be so low that a tea stained, crumpet ridden idiot could post something relevent(appologies to Spike Milligan).
I would hate to think I would drop./ message boards like I have dropped usenet.
So to those who want to my./ experience suck:
YOU ARE ALL $@#($*# [MSTroll screen active] NOOO YOU CAN NOT DO THI [MSTroll reprograming started] Must stop the paiiiiii [MSTroll reprogaming completed. Have a nice MSDay].
I must go and buy NT4 and install all service packs..........
Originally the idea was to get a godbotherer (Brian Harradine, Tasmanian Independant) to allow the passage of a goods & services tax bill, and the provision of selling off the remainder of Telstra.
It now has a life of its own, thanks to apparent political cowardice by the conservatives and the communications minister in particular.
The conservites in this country have found that wowserism is a great rallying cry to get the redneck gun-nut racists back to the fold after One Nation started imploding. Notice while its origional goal (pander to Harradine) failed, all the Liberals and Nationals found thing like the Lolita movie and the internet evil beyond reproach
Australians value their freedoms highly, and there is no doubt that many of those involved have not thought this thing through. IMHO, the only time Australia realy fought for their freedom was the Australia card fiasco. Generally we perfer to take things for granted, and giggle insanely when Americans do something stupid. When Aussies do soemthing stupid, things get swept under the carpet quick smart. I can see (for example) the Indonesian government pressuring the Australian government to 'ban' access to anti-Indonesian sites.
This has actualy happened, with Malaysia and the Embassy programon the ABC (governemnt run TV network like PBS with a lot of BBC thrown in). We tend to be craven when dealing with our forign neibours. We get blasted for telling the truth....oh well.
While the Liberal Party has stuffed the whole Internet thing for us Aussies, This is no excuse to lock out Australian sites.
After all, 51% of the population voted AGAINST the current government. Why punish the majority. We get punished every day as it is with weak willed, pandering to big business, rape the country, Aborigional bashing loosers.
The old testiment is the oral traditions of a tribe of people. It was written hundreds of years after it was created, with the distortions what naterally occur with verbal traditions.
It it, the creation story these people's idea on how their god created the earth. Given that the Jews had no idea of evolution, they got it preaty damn close.
Point: Plants came before animals and animals before humans. Change Days to epochs, and we have evolution from the mindset of a pre-industrial person.
Days could have been used both as a propaganda tool "Hey, our God created everything in 6 days!" or to make the story relevent to its intended audience (Try to explain million of years to people who have trouble with counting above 10).
So, the bible is actually right, for a pre-industrial nomad in an arid enviroment. For 20th century America........
Firstly, with the South Park movie being rated in OZ as MA (15+, with parental supervision) there can be reasonable grounds for refusing kids at seeing the movie (graphic sex, swearing).I feel that if it was rated R (18+) that is the only time for management to become a Door Nazi (tm).
It is parental concent that should be overriding concern. It should always be parental concent, be it the internet, TV, music or movies.
Given that the parent of this article gave verbal concent to the management should have been enough.
It is ironic that post Port Arthur, Australians wanted tougher gun control. In America post Colombine, Americans want to reprogram its kids.
Surely in an information rich enviroment, more effort should be spent on allowing kids to effectivly cope with conflicting information, not censoring the data stream.
Protection is not the answer. The only filter should be the persons OWN moral/belief system.
Slashdot Mirror
I think you're mistaken. The problem isn't with the format of the ballot at all. Pencil and paper might work in your society, but here, some people would get confused and, rather than admit their mistakes or ask someone for help, they'd blame it on the lack of pencil sharpeners.
I actually worked our last local council (Australia/NSW) elections (all council elections are held at the same time, every 4 years). We use a simple pen and pencil system, with a preferential system (Number all candiates from 1 to whatever, with 1 being your first preference , 2 your second , and so on).
We do get a lot of informal votes , but this may nor be because of the preferential voting system. (Informal means invalid). I do not know if the informal are from problems with the system, or a form of protest (since voting is compulsory in all elections in Australia). The "F*CK all politicians" scrawed on the ballot was one that we where not ambigous about, but putting a X next to a name is less so.
Looking at the Jon's rant, I do believe he is full of shit on the topic. Any system can work, from casting pebbles in an urn , to show of hands, to automated systems. The net is not the promise land for all of societies ills, and especially for voting, I know I would pefer physical evidence when counting the votes, than looking at a lone of data.
1. It allows scrutiny in the count from all involved.
2. It allows disputes on iregularities to be checked (any balor paper has to be marked before issue, for security. How can you do that for a data packet?
The American system may need an overhaul, but it should be the concepts of the vote, not how it is collected.
Darryl
Did all the Wal-Mart McMillian versions go to the USA?
Will the McMillian version also have 2 flavers (the pandering to the big guys version and the well, we are happy to sign off this version version?)
Darryl
It frustrates most at first... you just have to know where to find answers.
A good first source is the Linux Documentation Project:
www.linuxdoc.org
This site has lots of good info... check out the HOWTO's in particular.
[snip]
While these still require reading more than 2 sentences, if you want to get Linux running, and have some time to spend, these will answer 90% of your questions. Posting to Usenet will often clear up the rest.
Everyone Linux user was once a newbie. When I was starting out, these sites were invaluable for me. I hope they can help you too.
It is all well and good to have the exelent resources on the internet, but what about the newbies who cant set up ppp? Or has trouble logging onto th internet?
Some ISP's can not handle many of the ppp frontends (I used Kppp for one, and had to drill down to manual logging on to connect, how many newbie users know how to log on manually?)
I support Linux in the wider world, but we must look at supporting those users who can not/will not/unable to use the internet?
Darryl
The problem is that Heinlein possably saw ST as a polotical theory dressed up as a novel.
Also , a lot of the civil service jobs in the book where dangerous and remote. Military service was the quickest way of getting citizenship.
I just saw on the news that the Prime Minister's pushing for compulsory military service for the unemployed. [Snip] And the only possible use for those guns, an invasion into Australia aside, would be to control the population - under Australia's laws only full servicemen (not the Reserve) can serve overseas, the rest are limited to fighting on Australian soil.
Um, sorry. Reservists can and do serve overseas (especially if you have skills required...many Army doctors are reservists). Conscripts may not be able to serve overseas, it would be interesting to see if the pre-vietnam regeme is back in place on that one (anyone know?)
[Back on topic]
Australian broadcast laws are getting out of hand, it is not just internet, but Digital TV, radio licences and mobile phone are all a mess. I wish Rupert and Kerry Packer could buy the lot and sort the mess out (that was sarcasm folks!)
The main problem with not-for-profit organisations is one of investment capital. Something like an ISP is quite expensive to setup, and reasonably expensive to run at a reasonable level of service. However, if you run your business in such a way that at the end of the finanical year your debits and credits balance against each other, and you haven't made one single penny, what do you do when you need to upgrade your bandwidth due to an influx of customers?
There is no law that (in Australia) states that a Not for Profit organisation NOT to make a profit. Many Credit Unions here are not for profit, but makes profits anyway.
In real terms , is that whatever money they make , is reinvested back into the company as capital improvements.
Given the deplorable state of internet in Australia, especially rural users, you will find that many organisations would assits in capital for such an organistion, including State and Federal governments, and regional organisations like Shire Councils, Regonal development and industry lobby groups.
For an Aussie, this comes under the heading of "A fair go"
I'll go call Sun and IBM and tell them that Solaris, AIX, OS/400, and MVS aren't real. Boy will Scott McNeally be pissed.
As an AS/400 and AIX admin, that is just a stupid flamebait.
My parents have little technical nouse, and while my father can blunder his way through windows, there is no way that he could decode EDTUSRPRF or WRKACTJOB.
So the parent test is a good test for a user friendly interface. If all the users could handle the AS/400, my life would be sooooooo much easier.
I know I am far from being an expert on Stock Trading (pretty far from that really), but as of 4:25pm (based on CNN), their stock had already come down 3 points, and where will it go next week? How about the rest of the market? I, and certainly no one else here in America, would like to see our boom come to an end, even at the cost of ending MS's stronghold on the desktop world... is this a valid worry?
That what comes from a perception based market, not a factual based market. When M$ was assimulating any tech company it could, People felt this was a posative modiefier on their stock price, so the stock prices go up.
If people looked at the products, examined the marketing materials, looked at the coperate history of the company, they would have realised that M$ was in danger of exploding. Legally, it has DOJ, Calandra, Sun, Netscape, and who else wants to feed on the carcase. Product wise it had bloated products that costs more and more in hardware and software without productivity bonus implied by the marketing. Financially, it had the point of diminishing returns, you can only produce so much before the cost benifits deteriate (example, was it wise throwing all that money on IE? Especially if they NEVER saw a return?). Can a company still make a gazillion dollars p*ssing money against a wall to crush a competitor?
The whole stock market/economic craze in the US and Australia has me running scared.
If company ABC has a pool of money, why does it have to by its own stock?
Why can it not :
Maybe I am still a Closet Communist (tm), but the use of the share economy should also have a social dividend, not just financial.
Lets hope the voting age citizens of Australia
are "intelligent beings".
Australians can be intelegent, but we can also be an apathetic mob, lead by the nose by the Alpha Sheep(tm).
What do you expect from a country that made "She'll be right mate" into a national motto.
It really takes something bad for us to do someting (It took 25 years for us to so something about Timor!).
When going through message boards, the signal to noise ratio can be so low that a tea stained, crumpet ridden idiot could post something relevent(appologies to Spike Milligan).
./ message boards like I have dropped usenet.
./ experience suck:
I would hate to think I would drop
So to those who want to my
YOU ARE ALL $@#($*# [MSTroll screen active]
NOOO YOU CAN NOT DO THI [MSTroll reprograming started]
Must stop the paiiiiii [MSTroll reprogaming completed. Have a nice MSDay].
I must go and buy NT4 and install all service packs..........
It now has a life of its own, thanks to apparent political cowardice by the conservatives and the communications minister in particular.
The conservites in this country have found that wowserism is a great rallying cry to get the redneck gun-nut racists back to the fold after One Nation started imploding. Notice while its origional goal (pander to Harradine) failed, all the Liberals and Nationals found thing like the Lolita movie and the internet evil beyond reproach
Australians value their freedoms highly, and there is no doubt that many of those involved have not thought this thing through.
IMHO, the only time Australia realy fought for their freedom was the Australia card fiasco. Generally we perfer to take things for granted, and giggle insanely when Americans do something stupid. When Aussies do soemthing stupid, things get swept under the carpet quick smart.
I can see (for example) the Indonesian government pressuring the Australian government to 'ban' access to anti-Indonesian sites.
This has actualy happened, with Malaysia and the Embassy programon the ABC (governemnt run TV network like PBS with a lot of BBC thrown in). We tend to be craven when dealing with our forign neibours. We get blasted for telling the truth....oh well.
While the Liberal Party has stuffed the whole Internet thing for us Aussies, This is no excuse to lock out Australian sites.
After all, 51% of the population voted AGAINST the current government. Why punish the majority. We get punished every day as it is with weak willed, pandering to big business, rape the country, Aborigional bashing loosers.
Darryl
The bible is quite factual, for what it is.
The old testiment is the oral traditions of a tribe of people. It was written hundreds of years after it was created, with the distortions what naterally occur with verbal traditions.
It it, the creation story these people's idea on how their god created the earth. Given that the Jews had no idea of evolution, they got it preaty damn close.
Point: Plants came before animals and animals before humans. Change Days to epochs, and we have evolution from the mindset of a pre-industrial person.
Days could have been used both as a propaganda tool "Hey, our God created everything in 6 days!" or to make the story relevent to its intended audience (Try to explain million of years to people who have trouble with counting above 10).
So, the bible is actually right, for a pre-industrial nomad in an arid enviroment. For 20th century America........
Firstly, with the South Park movie being rated in OZ as MA (15+, with parental supervision) there can be reasonable grounds for refusing kids at seeing the movie (graphic sex, swearing).I feel that if it was rated R (18+) that is the only time for management to become a Door Nazi (tm).
It is parental concent that should be overriding concern. It should always be parental concent, be it the internet, TV, music or movies.
Given that the parent of this article gave verbal concent to the management should have been enough.
It is ironic that post Port Arthur, Australians wanted tougher gun control. In America post Colombine, Americans want to reprogram its kids.
Surely in an information rich enviroment, more effort should be spent on allowing kids to effectivly cope with conflicting information, not censoring the data stream.
Protection is not the answer. The only filter should be the persons OWN moral/belief system.